+1 for this thread. Terribad idea.
Also very concerned by cavalier stats. Cavalier makes warrior oh so stupid in wvw, please don’t put it in pvp aswell.
I said it many times, I’ll say it again. The problem of the spec isn’t the pw skill itself, but the gap closing/pull back abilities. Melee specs by definition can’t stay in all the time and thus need to have higher damage to compensate for pressure downtime. With sword/pistol you have no risk by being melee at all, while having the complete reward. Instant ports in and out at will (you can port from 2000+ range if you want to, withdraw to instantly disengage melee range without any punishement possible and a 21 sec insant stability removal/daze.
Don’t nerf the damage of pistolwhip, nor the evades. You need to deliver your damage at some point. But make it riskier by nerfing steal, infil signet, infil strike, withdraw and lyssa runes.
Add an overlapping cast time on steal so that it has an animation but you can still do all the current combos. Steal needs a tell, as it’s a very important skill that you should be able to see coming consistenlty. Put a cast time to infil signet but keep it as stun breaker coz it’s ridiculously overpowered : positionning yourself as any glasscanon doesn’t matter coz the thief will instantly port to you from 10 miles away to train you down. Make infil strike work with line of sight requirement to land the immob and damage, like steal. Make every single thief skill used at least twice in a row cost 1 more initiative everytime. Remove withdraw from the game. Most broken, worst idea ever. Shouldn’t ever have seen daylight. Remove aegis and stability from lyssa proc. Please. Do it.
In a tpvp match scenario, the squishy IS in trouble because the thief can just port back if he uses a stun breaker and initiate again a few seconds later on the naked squishy.
I truly think this idea is pretty good, because it’s not making you immune to damage, but gives you mitigation, on top of protection. And as many people pointed out, you can not sit in earth all game. As long as a well timed switch is the difference between taking 50% of your health or instantly blowing up, it should be rewarded imo, coz the protection alone on earth switch isn’t doing enough currently, even combined with frost aura (which is telling how fragile we are, if 43% total damage mitigation can’t prevent us from bruttaly dieing). It’s also an active play, designed way better than diamond skin.
Also, I think the whole ele playstyle should be rewarded this way. We are supposed to have such low hp, because we have access to such great potential. Higher base vita and toughness would just make the class ridiculous at worst, no brain at best.
I think a big problem that hasn’t been pointed out is how easy it is for the pw thief to initiate on squishy targets (ele/mesmer mostly) : Infiltrator’s signet. You just have to press infiltrator’s strike, infil signet and steal at the same time. It’ll combine the 3 ranges together in a giant port towards the target, instantly, without tells. If you basi on top, your target is already in huge trouble without even using pistolwhip itself.
Every thief no matter which spec nowadays is playing infiltrator’s signet for this reason. I’m not sure exactly how to fix it. Maybe keep it a stun break but add a cast time to it, like stomp on warrior ? It would make it impossible to use anything more than steal on top of it, and would decrease the speed at which the thief transitions from initiating to pistolwhip mashing. In any case, those instant dashes on the target for 2000+ range should not be possible imo.
After working my tail off since pre-launch to be able to make two legendaries myself I’m pretty disgusted at them just giving away a legendary weapon.
You make it sound like they are giving it away to everyone.
They’re giving it to the 5 best players in the tournament, so they’re rewarding it to the most skilled.
You don’t understand, Vol. 5 of the best pvp’ers are unworthy to receiver a legendary. They are not worthy unless you join champ zergs for hundreds of hours. That is the only way to be worthy of a legendary because others are not good at pvp kitten kitten kitten kitten .
I thank you for not acknowledging the fact that we (my team and I) have played this game since release, through thick and thin, and kept on playing since then, have played all tournaments and practiced for it in the past 6 month and still playing the game daily (which team can say that they held together in the past 6 months and are ready to play this game 5 more years together), with the exception of ONE esl, while the incentive to spend time playing the game have dwindled, as well as trying to keep players interested to play pvp through Iisey’s project. Thank you very much.
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Let me enlighten you.
People call builds “cheese builds” things they find lame and deserving nerfs, thus feeling cool and accepted amongst their fellow solo-queue tryhards.
A cheese, in Starcraft 2, is a strategy that revolves around your opponent not scouting, relying on the surprise factor to rack up the win.
The builds mentionned above are quite the contrary : They work, no matter what your opponent can do (except ele kitten aderp). Calling them cheese is a way of openly accepting their ignorance of the game and their mechanics. Don’t get me wrong, we’re not arguing about meta builds being lame or OP, coz they kittening are. No, the op mentionned FIREGRAB ele. Cewl.
But unless you play for fun (in which case you wouldn’t even take time to read the forums) or are just plain bad and advocate the play-whatever-you-want-coz-if-you-scream-it-works-then-it-works policy, I don’t see how it is even remotely relevant for the overall balance discussion to list a bunch of specs to pin-point a “Cheese Badge” on them.
#hipster
Even tho I started doing some pve like 6 months after release, Ive been strictly playing pvp since beta and got my first level 80 around march 2012, even tho I was playing at least 4 hours a day before that. I was willing to learn all classes somewhat completely to play as best as possible and from the top of my head, here’s a little fun count.
From what I can remember, I created 5 necromancers, 4 mesmers, 5 elementalists, 5 engis, 6 thieves, 4 rangers, 2 guardians and 7 warriors. I’m not even counting my 2 smurf accounts So ye.
The go-into-pvp-everything’s-free policy was yours from the start in regards of pvp. Please don’t change it now.
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I personnaly don’t wanna talk directly to my team mates in soloQ.
Give us ping abilties like in League. Ennemy missing, signal to be cautious, X player is on the way, etc, with SOUNDS. Very needed imo. Esp for soloQ.
You’re right, you must be a better player than me. Thanks for the feedback.
Hey man, thanks for your nice comment.
I’m currently working on another video, more oriented towards scepter/dagger (my favorite set). Thing is I seem to be cursed : I always get really cool encounters when I’m not recording, and uninterresting footage when I am.
I’ll post another video as soon as possible !
Grab a makeover kit and switch to female norn ! Female norn is the most amazing type of character ever !
http://i.imgur.com/YycQBwr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YWtJxH3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IXFcHoB.jpg
And if u prefer with helmet on :
http://i.imgur.com/HLjOBde.jpg
There you go
For sPvP, the most appropriate role for ele would be a bursty roamer/minor support with heals and group protection/might stacking, although ele is the weakest class atm given thieves burst them down just as hard as mesmers (while not providing nearly as strong utilities like portal). They also get wreck by all the damage flying around. And condis destroy them. If you manage to deliver your damage without getting hit too much you can do really well, but unless you want to play seriously, you might wanna consider another class. Ele is by far the most fun and demanding class to play however. Ele burst in the strongest in pvp at the moment so that’s how you wanna build your ele.
For those reasons, you might want to play scepter for its excellent burst potential. Offhand is up to you, I personnally like dagger better for mobility, better damage and group heal/frost aura. You’re way more susceptible to any type damage however.
Build wise, 30 air 30 arcana (or 20 water 20 arcana) is a stapple, the last 10 points are up to you. I enjoy 10 fire for burning precision with glyph of power a lot.
Utility wise, blink and arcane shield are really good options. You pick whatever you like best as a third. Wave, blast, mist form, glyph of power are good options currently.
EDIT : I wanna point out one thing. Ele is one of the best designed classes I’ve seen, in any game. They aren’t optimal tho, because some other classes are completely, blantaly imbalanced. Ele doesn’t need buff, it needs the rest to get nerfed, for the good of the game.
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How do you plan on bringing the elementalist back in pvp ? Be it by buffing it to a point that it becomes way stronger than it should be, like everything else ? Or nerf other classes (specifically thief/warrior/necro as priorities) ?
Read the second half of my post. It would allow to nerf survivability as a result without butchering certain skills/specs/classes. Make everyone more fragile, yet less damagy is the way to go imo. Would make team support and group plays necessary to keep on winning consistently. Would also fix loads of imbalances (aka thief direct damage, warrior aoe, necro counter pressure, etcetc).
Focus is extremely strong in a pvp (be it wvw or spvp) format. Its defensive abilities let you play very glassy.
However, a cool change that I’d like to see to the fire aura (fire #5) would be to make it similar to the summoner spell “Ignite” in League of Legends. Let’s say it would incorporate a damage multiplier of like… 10 to 20% to critical damage for a few seconds while consumming 50% of your endurance, on a 50 seconds or 60 seconds cooldown. You could even keep benefitting from the current skill effect, as it doesn’t do much right now but could be added value if such a change was to be made. Thoughts ?
Disagreed.
A significant damage nerf across the board on all classes (including ele scepter burst and arcane skills) is the solution in my opinion (only talking about tPvP, don’t care much about WvW). It would allow to keep most of everything as foundation without injecting in new elements and numbers to play around with (which fails more often than not with anet, let’s be realzies), and nerf broken skills like healing sig, zerker stance and all that without risking to throw one class or the other out of the meta. It would also make it more difficult and rewarding to actually rack up kills, promote support roles more while allowing a bunker guardian nerf (that has been needed since the start of the game but no one bothered coz no numberZz). All in all, you could bring the class you like to play the most as long as you have the proper role and bring something to the table, be it downstate control/boon stripping, nuke-type damage and good mobility, strong group utilities or group support through boons and healing, and wouldn’t be restricted to the “warrior coz it does everything better” or thief being the go-to roamer/main single target damage dealer.
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Thanks. Retrospectively I agree, the first fight is boring as hell. I’ll do another video this week, with even better footage. <3
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Me neither, it should have been a bug. I used swirling winds for the sole purpose of healing safely. Or so I thought…
dude I wont be offensive but this video is really, really bad. Only 1v1 fights with ppl without stacks and food and also low ranks.
Don’t worry, you’re not being offensive at all
However, please take the time to read the title. Zerging bores me. And picking off lone people with 3 mates feels more unfair than kitten 2 guys over and over all by yourself. I’ll try to record 5v50 action for you ! <3
Also vs no food opponents ? That’s not true at all. Concerning stacks, I don’t see why it’s an issue : It takes 2 minutes to kill 12 mobs. It’s not like it’s hard or takes a lot of time. No excuse for not stacking !
Aaaaand, here’s a link for the song you asked : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi_1HtXWNzQ&index=20&list=PLBE2AFD07E2F2A435
A few days ago, I found myself urging to go man mode and solo roam wvw with my handsome elementalist. Recorded a bunch of footage, that I now present to you so you can laugh at me for playing such a cheesy noob class. Hf, feel free to comment ! <3
No, no, no, no. Bring back our old sustain and we’ll be just as equally broken as we used to a year ago. Even more than a year ago.
We don’t need our sustain to be buffed. We need an overall damage reduction across all classes in tpvp (especially looking at thief and necro), including ourselves.
Also, nerf the ability that warrior has to stand on a node while keeping opponents at bay and unable to contest without eating 1000000 aoes.
>>> /need other game modes.“winky face @Allie”
You say we like you play ele but don’t know about its nerf history.
You won’t be broken like before because you can’t ether renewal in mist form anymore. Signet of restoration had a bug that healed to much with evasive arcana dodges in earth.
RTL was bugged and you could go 1500 range and reset easy.Unless Anet decides to revert bugs which I doubt the actual intended sustain was fine.
Those where the problems the intended healing was fine. You think SOR old levels really would make ele op without the above changes that happened?
“Buffing sustain” means make it sufficient enough to sustain through current amounts of damage floating around. Which is ridiculous, period.
If it wouldn’t be so, we’re just suggesting useless changes and wasting our time.
Message me ingame @KarsaiB.9475 (private messages preferably) if you have specific questions you want an answer to and I’ll do my best. Be specific however, please.
You have to keep in mind :
1- Some skills are useful to zone people.
2- Some skills are meant to be set up, you’re not playing alone for gods sake.
3- Downstate damage is a role elementalist has to take care of. Dragon’s Tooth is amazing at it, and so is churning earth. Just get used to casting a dragon’s tooth on a downed body, and then unleash as much damage as possible if you need to.
4- Churning earth/blink combo is the most predictable gimmick in the world and a waste of blink. Unless you’re fighting ppl that haven’t played much. Then again, you prolly don’t wanna bank on other people’s ignorance rather than actual good plays.
5- WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM
Churning earth is amazing.
No, no, no, no. Bring back our old sustain and we’ll be just as equally broken as we used to a year ago. Even more than a year ago.
We don’t need our sustain to be buffed. We need an overall damage reduction across all classes in tpvp (especially looking at thief and necro), including ourselves.
Also, nerf the ability that warrior has to stand on a node while keeping opponents at bay and unable to contest without eating 1000000 aoes.
>>> /need other game modes.
“winky face @Allie”
Well, the same system should apply to all weapon sets, but this problem is probably caused by the skill being toggled twice, so they prolly forgot to implement the initiative loss mechanics to it altogether… Nerf thief please.
Oh and btw, all the bundles are broken as hell. Especially whirl.
The problem with pistolwhip is that it’s a melee spec without the risk that comes with it. The evade on the skill itself take away possible counterplays your opponent SHOULD be able to pull off. In any game, melee is a risky playstyle that compensate DOWNTIMES in higer damaging pressure (you shouldn’t be able to be IN all the time as melee but should have “windows of opportunity” instead). With pistolwhip you have the cc, the damage and the evades, all in one button. Add now lyssa runes, spammable ports in and out, withdraw, a 21 seconds cooldown steal to remove stability and stealth and there you have it, a spec without, in theory, any counter play. Just luck dodges, pretty much.
What to change imo ? Split the pw skill in 2 toggled phases. First the daze, and then the flurry skill, with initiative costs split. Remove the evades from pistowhip, and increase its damage to make up for it. Increase pistolwhip’s initiative cost by 1 (maybe more). Remove withdraw from pvp. Nerf lyssa runes in some way. No thief should have access to stability by himself. Make sword number 2 work like steal, with line of sight requirement to land the immob and the damage. Nerf trickery : No more decreased steal cooldown. That’s about it.
You can’t balance a game around casual players while expecting to have a “competitive scene” at the same time, as a competitive scene is made of players able to do MORE with their class/spec than casual players.
Any casual player who pretends he should/is able to compete with a more dedicated player, in any game, is completely mistaken.
If game developers, in any game, are balancing in a way allowing casual players to compete with more dedicated players, they can’t expect to have a “competitive scene”.
Not a single casual player reasonnably expects to compete with more skilled players. In the same way, skilled players expect to outshine casual players. Casual players want challenge but not getting slaughtered, aka need for leagues matching global level t ohave a calibered challenge. More dedicated players don’t want to play vs casual players because it is too easy, or because a game is balanced in such a way that they feel like their impact on the game isn’t matching their skills and dedication. Which has been the case for a lot of gw2 players, since release.
Skilled/mainstream dedicated players are the ones that are supposed to shift the balance. In any well balanced game, any skilled player should be able to play whatever he likes best and be the most effective at it (watch starcraft broodwar balance as an example).
Which means for gw2 a dedicated ele player such as myself should be able to be the most effective by playing ele. Not warrior. Or thief. The amount of plays you can pull off in this game are restrained by the blatant balance issues and class hardcounters. Which is, for ele, nearly everything. But that’s not relevant there. Do NOT balance the game around casual players. For the 1000000th time, ask tpvp players, and listen to them. Please.
I’ll share my personnal opinion. Bringing pve/wvw players by integrating spvp more with the rest or something isn’t going to give people incentive to play it. At the moment, my team and I get at least three 500-0s per evening vs randoms everytime we teamQ. There were only 2 teams that were challenging to fight and are probably decimating randoms as well when not playing against each other/us. Being a pve/wvw more casual player and getting disemboweled by long time pvpers is NOT fun. Make the pvp so unique, interesting and balanced (aka better balance, game modes, less messy particles and stuff) that it would bring new people into the game, and THOSE people, coming FOR THE PVP would actually make the effort to get destroyed at first and then improve, etc etc. Trying to salvage your playerbase by changing the reward system as a main strategy to get spvp back on track is meant to fail.
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Make valk better, phantaram’s idea is brilliant, I want precision on valk, kitten that crit dmg. Make valk niche for ele, give it maybe a bit increased healing power compared to now but slightly reduce the power gain so that warrior can’t use it to their advantage.
Nerf warrior.
Nerf Lyssa Runes.
Nerf infiltrator’s strike. Give it a 5 sec icd or something.
Nerf steal, remove that dumb steal cooldown decrease u get from getting 30 points into trickery. And add a cast that would overlap over other cast times so you’d still be able to pull steal burst combos like before but you could see it coming if you’re fast enough through a quick, nova-type animation.
And nerf scepter damage. Pls.
Just give me a fiery battleaxe on elementalist.
Anet pls tell us, did this random ogre guy give u head in real life or ?
You even know whose posts your deleting ? You should ban me now.
Here’s my post again :
We should all learn to avoid steal’s clear animation.
My rabid condi mesmer with runes of the undead has no problem dealing with thieves. My zerker phantasm build can kill them too (depending on whether they get the drop on me though).
No one cares about your dumb wvw duelling spec, you’re in the wrong forum.
It got meta coz everyone’s a caed/tokker copycat for NA and shad copycat for EU. And trickery is what makes it incredibly stupid. A 21 sec instant skill that dazes 100% guaranteed and removes stability as a priority. And lyssa runes. And whirl. And blackpowder. And infinite ports in/out. And 10000000 evades. Did I forget something ?
EDIT : Yes I forgot shadow refuge. Yipee !
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Thief makes ele unviable by its sole presence.
I agree, Misha gets carried by his team.
Ele burst is already controversial as it is that powerful despite the class being that easy to kill. Add survivability to it and think about what’s coming next, for mesmers, engis, even thieves and such.
Well, reading your post again doesn’t make it more right to me..
Thieves pay their mobility, in case you never played one: there are A LOT of weapons sets in which a shortbow doesnt’ fit, think about traits like quick pockets. d/p + s/d is a quite common weaponsset, and has a mobility comparable to the average. Using all your initiative with sb 5 takes you in the middle of the fight without initiative, you’ll have to wait some time before being able to fully engage. As a almost champion shadow thief, i can assure you that i’ll never join a tpvp without my shortbow because mobility is too good in a tpvp match for a theif. You roam where needed and push far when they leave it unguarded. I sacrifice something, but hey it’s ok it’s the role i chose..
If i’m more for staying mid and support my bunker i’ll runn d/p + s/d, very low mobility but some very nice utilities, boon stripping, lots of damage and so on..Warriors in wvw build for mobility. Why? ‘cause in wvw it’s good. Much better that having a higher damage. Join some tpvp and tell me how many s/* + gs warriors you’ll meet. 0, i can ensure you. Why? Because warriors usually cover a different role in spvp.
Want me to continue? Mesmer portal..it’s very useful if your team can take advantage of it, but the mesmer sacrifices one entire utility slot (and in pvp god knows how many good things a mesmer can take..if you play zerker decoy and blink are almost a must have), if you play shatterer you’ll be probably sacrificing mirror images or null field.
After 1500+ tpvp matches, i ensure you that mobility is a key to victory IF your team can take advantage from it. There are classes that have a higher mobility that others and that’s perfectly fine, pvp is a matter of roles and choices, and be sure that very high mobility always comes at a cost.
s/d thief average mobility. Oh wait you’re a thief, “almost champion shadow”. s/d mobility is unmatched in tpvp. Unmatched. Infiltrator’s arrow shadowstep infil signet steal is what it takes to gank on a side node coming from mid. And if something’s low when you arrive to the teamfight without initiative, let me teach you. Basi with lyssa infil sig steal spam auto. GG. If not, swap to bow ! Hard isn’kitten
For the record, I didn’t say remove those ports and movement skills. Increase the cooldowns, reduce range, do SOMETHING, make so that you have to use it while thinking about consequences. A good example is ride the lightning. Go in using it and you’re not leaving for the next 40 seconds. I want this kind of thinking coming into play.
Finally, you don’t have to go through teaching me how to build and I how play. Now, I’m not gonna play the who kitten the furthest contest but I’d guarantee you I’d win.
Did you read my entire post ? I don’t feel like you did.
If you build into high mobility, it should come at a price. Let movement speed be a small portion of the total stats. And remove the speed cap, or increase it to like 60% instead of 35 or 33 or whatever it currently is. And read me next time, what I’ll say will make sense to you then.
Idk how much pvp you play and that’s not meant as an insult, I genuinely don’t know you. But if you do play, you have probably seen thieves port around all over the place without any major cost. Swiftness on dodge, funny.
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1/ Nerf our damage output with scepter full zerker specs. Nerf arcane spells damage. Damage is boring, you don’t play ele do only nuke kitten down.
2/ Increase the base healing power in pvp. I’m an ele, I want my group heals to matter and save lives.
3/ Introduce some sort of ele specific amulet by its stats (got this from phanta), some kind of refined celestial. With power main stat, toughness precision healing power. It’d be so niche that every other class using it would be suboptimal.
4/ (Might sound crazy) Remove fresh air. Instant unavoidable unpredictable damage is bad for the game and lowers the skill ceiling. A good ele lands everything. A mediocre one just lands air#2.
5/ First idea from the above. Been wanting this for a long time, strange that no one has taken note yet.
6/ Remove crit dmg and condi damage and introduce EFFECTIVE armor rating, armor penetration, attack power, spell power and magic resist, with new, more balanced multipliers. Can’t build a castle on a pile of kitten. Make a drastic change, redo it from sratch. Better for the game in my opinion.
I’ll think about some more but we honnestly only need a kick in the butt to be very (potentially too) strong again. Just be very careful.
I really like you.
Oh and this magic resist type thing would increase durability for bunkers vs condis. Weeeee ! Dunno where to classify engi damage tho.
Here’s my contribution :
That you’re asking what’s the class people want changed the most is disturbing. Little enough people play this game’s pvp consistently and you ask the majority of the player base, aka very casual pvp players, if not first timers that only play wvw and pve what they think should be changed balance wise. This isn’t about democracy or something, this is about the pvp balance of a game that’s been out for a year and a half now and truth being you are as clueless as most of the people are when it comes to pvp balance, so clueless that you ask for what people THINK WOUD BE A GOOD IDEA. If you’d have listened to top pvp players 1 year ago in the PTS instead of making excuses and hanging on to kittened concepts or changes, it would probably not be this way.
I have no realistic approach to fixing this game. The balance is too kittened up and it’d require a complete revamp that is lightyears away from being realistic. IF you even had the right people to make something happen, which you don’t. You only have quote on quote “casual competitive pvpers” in the devs team. Really funny.
Actually, one concrete example : Will you ever admit the immobilise stacking is a bad idea ? And how long will it take you ? And will you even revert it to what it was before ? Or will you keep trying to justify that it’s a beneficial change for the game and makes it a better experience ? I’m curious. Prove me wrong, I’ll be happy.
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Title says it all. Am talking about pvp/wvw there.
Ride the Lightning is the example of a good, BALANCED movement skill. Nerf dem ports and movement skills abominations. Please.
Examples : Thieves porting across the map in a matter of seconds in pvp. Warriors being faster than usain bolt in wvw. That’s it mostly, but that’s a big chunk right there.
On the other hand, allow for players to build for very high movement speed instead of having this dumb cap at 35% or something.
Armor rating has litterally zero noticeable effect. Only toughness does. Also, any mage type class should be light armor.
What we need is physical damage mitigation, penetration, spell power and magic resist. Do eet Anet.
Anet not convinced yet. We should go on strike maybe. Or all quit the game.
YOU HEAR US ALLIE ?
You can’t buff things that have to be set up by a group into making it usable by yourself, as if only what you do by yourself matters, especially in a pvp format, which you are talking about. There should be in fact way more skills like that, without even such dramatic effect. Landing them would mean strong teamplay, not braindead spamming, as well as making teamfights way less random. Just step up u know.. Doing everything by yourself is what is destroying the game atm. Everything gets to do all sorts of crazy kitten that shouldn’t be possible realisticly in a 5v5 format.
From a personnal perspective, a balance developper should put more time into playing the game he’s being paid to balance more than actually trying to fix it. Being the ones that put ideas into perspective and have the hand on the executive part you are supposed to know every facette of the game as well as being able to clearly identify issues and fix them in a matter of days.
Not that I really care anymore, I enjoy playing with the people I play with more than the actual content, especially when there’re prizes on the line. Although I’ve sunk more than 5k hours and a couple of hundreds into this game, it’s now more fun for me than constructive to just wash out my mouth with acid and spit all over the place. You don’t deserve anyone’s trust anymore, although I hope you prove all of us wrong in the future. But you know what, keep on working on living story 2 weeks long content if that’s the only to keep your job coz you kittened up so hard that no one would keep on playing the game if pvp was actually your main focus.
veto system. Please.