Guild Wars 2

5. Out number fights? seriously? anything moves can outnumber fights…

4. see picture here, and think about again why he only mention these two here, because in a same skill level, thief can not handle other class, which proves my point, thief is useless and dead in pvp.

3. Focus on the squishy one. clearly that target is almost dead, when she jumps in, while, let me tell you, other class can do a lot better job than clearing the salvage kills.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Can you either stop trolling, and or moaning now, it is getting rather pathetic. Just accept that you either suck in pvp by playing the meta (wvw) build – it doesn’t work and you proved it doesn’t, or listen to people that know what they are doing. the thief forums are normally full of troll’s and not 1 trollish or childish reply have i really seen in this entire thread, its mostly been legit advice.

everyone dies, who dosn’t but most people die because they was in the wrong place at the wrong time doing the wrong thing.

This is what you are meant to do as a thief in pvp. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9ZVE-s66G0

First, I am not sure what makes you think you could make the judgement, clearly you didn’t show us anything positive here yourself but post a link here from someone else. I suggest you play a thief yourself then come here and put all these kitten again.

Second, just take a look at this video, it never shown any real combat between a thief and a counter part, it’s always, she joins an existing fight and catches someone off guard while the target is fighting others, put pressure on someone greatly wounded already, let me tell you, other class can still do a better job in this kind of situation. Go watch this video again, this person cuts off the video every time when a real encounter fight starts, why???

So please don’t make yourself look like kitten here. There are a lot people here agree with me.

Clearly she is using S/D build and understand D main hand is nerfed to ground, and not using Dagger main hand build, which is what we are talking about here. Please go troll somewhere else you toidi.

Let me list out the points from your video:
1. Take a point while nobody there, yeah, thief is soo useful….
2. see picture here from the video, ask your slow brain, why did he say things like this in a pro introduction video?? Isn’t this pathetic?

After did all the tests and pvp, I got conclusion which is the same as some others’ here.

THIEF IS DEAD IN PVP……

Narkodx.1472:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

What a touching statement, but hummm… every one has a keyboard can type these kitten. Show some proof or don’t BS here, you can take multiple players at the same time with no SA setup. this is the biggest word I read so far on this forum.

Winning fights vs multiple players is more than doable without SA, it’s just harder and involves a lot more kiting. Just because you personally can’t do it, doesn’t mean it’s not possible.

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

Narkodx.1472:

You obviously are a new player – You are using shadows rejuv in pvp

You have no basis to make any claims about the balance of this game

well, 26600 build is one of the major build in pvp, same as 20606, you are probably a new player here, look around this forum, you will find a lot people talking about 26600 build.

Actually, those are major builds for WvW as stealth is stupidly good for that game mode and because damage is higher in WvW due to equipment choices not being as limited. These two things make these builds viable where they may not be otherwise.

PvP has its own meta based on the fact that stealth actually hurts your teams’ performance in a point capture based game. Try 2/6/0/0/6, 6/0/2/0/6 or 5/6/0/0/3 for D/P, depending on what works better for you and for your team.

This guy breaks it down for you

Again, probably lots of you here make your statement while your thief is level 20.

I saw a lot thieves play those build, trust me, they spent more time lay down on the ground than in a fight.

I don’t think any one of you here can show me or play with me your 26006 build in the game, please, don’t simply open your big mouth and bla bla here. or we can even duel, you 26006, me 26600, see who is the last stand. what a joke.

Maugetarr.6823:

@keyboardwarrior: We know that other classes can do comparable /more damage than thieves; they have higher coefficients and comparable modifiers, so mathematically the potential (and actual in some cases) damage output is greater. The problem is is that thief constantly walks the line between OP and UP and it’s largely dependent on player skill (both yours and the enemy’s ). The thing is our flat out ability to tank is nill, so if that’s your assessment of the thief’s survivability it’s never going to be good because we lack the blocks, invulns, and protection that other classes have. We do have a plethora of evades, dodges, blinds, and even weakness application. That’s sort of what leads to the disagreement between thieves and other classes because our fights end up being bipolar unless both parties are good with their particular classes: you either win handily or eat dirt hard.

I happen to think we’re in a pretty decent spot right now. A few tweaks/fixes here and there to things like venoms/deathblossom/traps would be great, but I can’t think of too much that could be buffed without overwhelming other classes (not all others but maybe a third of them) or nerfs that wouldn’t make thieves sub par to other zerkers. That seems like pretty decent balance to me right now at least.

Any class can be OP or UP depends on the players’ skills, this is pointless, I don’t know why you say useless things like this.

Again, they have equivalent skills to defense like our stealth, they are tankier, have more HP, more CC skills and damage burst is more, that’s total unfair.

10k damage in 2 hit, about 2-3 sec, again, better than thief. and tankier, more hp, more cc.

5500 damage, 3 times, 16k in about 3 sec, see picture here, this burst is way better than thief, tankier and more hp. RANGE damage.

Simon.3794:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

Simon.3794:

my final thrust does only 1k damage, i have screenshot so im right. final thurst is weak,buff please.

Yeah, put your screenshot right here, can you?

Thief OP, nerf please.

Let you see who should be nerfed, more tanky, more stuns and more hp, but same and better burst, that’s totally unfair. it’s like 10k burst in 3 sec.

Lygon.4896:

I’ve mained thief almost since the start and before that I mained ele who became on and off for 2 years. I now play a bit of medi guard.

I think the damage output for thieves is fine, like a few others have said it is the Celestial bunker builds that are the problem. Warriors are able to output similar damage whilst having great sustain and bunker levels of defense. So really, these kinds of bunker builds shouldn’t be able to do that much damage.

My medi guard can output higher burst than my thief whilst having better sustain, I have a much easier time 1v1ing the bunker builds with my guard than with my thief.

When we disengage from a fight in stealth, to replenish ourselves, it usually allows the opponent to also replenish to full and reset their skill cooldowns so it’s not like we become 100% whilst the opponent are stuck on 40% from the previous fight. All while they hold the point and up their score.

TLDR; Thief is fine, nerf celestial.

This is the exact reason, why thief’s burst is too low, other class are tankier and has more HP, yet, the burst damage is higher than thieves, this doesn’t make sense.

Narkodx.1472:

You obviously are a new player – You are using shadows rejuv in pvp

You have no basis to make any claims about the balance of this game

well, 26600 build is one of the major build in pvp, same as 20606, you are probably a new player here, look around this forum, you will find a lot people talking about 26600 build.

Hype.8032:

Keyboard are you running full shadow arts? One of those screenshots said stealth healed you….

Build your thief properly before complaining about it. Thieves already have more than enough dps against other zerker classes, probably too much really. However, against the celestial garbage of this meta I’d agree the damage is a little less than it should be.

So what’s the fix? Raise the damage and you’ll never see another burst ele or mesmer of any type in spvp. I say don’t touch the thief and reduce either the defense or offense of the common celestial builds to re-gain balance.

I would love to see your build up and play style in pvp, you probably spend more time laying on the ground or fleeing than fighting…. still please put evidence or proof here to support your point like I did . Everyone has a mouth can say, hi you are wrong… and basically this kind of communication is just useless crap.

Ragion.2831:

SinisterWraith.2910:

From what I have been reading on these forums. The Thief has literally been nerf’d into the ground and unplayable in PvP.

You are right, the game is full of easy mode AoE and CC, Condi builds etc that deal way more damage than a skill shot like back stab. I think if you are wanting a melee play Warrior, if you want a stealth toon play Ranger. Thief is dead.

Kocoff.7582:

Thieves are really weak.
The problem with thieves is this: the longer the fight, the lesser your chances of survival.

Can we please be serious? there are still people who havent tried the class and putting out inaccurate comments like this could kill the class.

I’m pvp rank 80 and ive played necro since release, then played thief for the past 3 months with a little guardian in between and i can tell you thief class is very far from weak. The problem is closed minded builds.

I have no clue where this idea of running either s/d or d/p came from, or the 2/0/0/6/6 craze. Lets not forget this popular idea that you HAVE to run shadow refuge. Open up the builds guys. I run an evade style 5/0/0/3/6 with no shadow refuge and no bow and I can tell you this set up has proven to be HIGHLY effective.

It fits well into my evade play style instead of going into stealth every 2 seconds and wasting everyone’s time. Its a lot more rewarding because the build is heavily dependent on split second decisions. I worry much less about CDs like most thieves would in a long fight. The damage is there, the cleanses are there and I can take on multiple decent players at the same time (sometimes)

For me this build surpasses the meta people seem to base the class’ pvp viability on because i built it based on my play style.

My point is, the meta build or whatever build theory crafters come up with that is supposed to be “viable” could really be useless if it doesn’t fit your play style and it could lead you to think the class is “weak”

What a touching statement, but hummm… every one has a keyboard can type these kitten. Show some proof or don’t BS here, you can take multiple players at the same time with no SA setup. this is the biggest word I read so far on this forum.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Shockwave.1230:

In a team fight I think staff Ele has it easier, but in 1v1s D/P thief would definitely have it easier.

It’s all situational as to what’s better when though

That is a much more reasonable assessment. Thank you.

As for the guy who is posting images of poor damage on a backstab, I can just as easily show you (thanks to someone who posted this glorious moment of mine going down pretty hard and bad looking) just how much I personally loose from the same attack. It all depend on who you hit.

In PvP people tend to be bunkerish because the game is a conquest one where he who stays in the ring wins. My lava font also do very unspectacular damage on them. Beside, thieves rarely only unleash one lone backstab when they unload their ini…

First, we are talking about damage in pvp here, you link a video in wvw, other classes can burst even more in wvw. I guess you should clear your mind first before posting stuff here.

Thieves rarely only unleash one backstab, right, like other classes only unleash one skill at a time.

hihey.1075:

“Im looking specifically for something that can effectively guarantee a kill on a specific target as long as I take the time to keep hitting him over and over” – any thief builds can do that, but the thing is, you won’t be able to kill any decent bunker in a reasonable amount of time with any build.

D/P 60206 can usually oneshot enemy zerker classes and poses a huge treat on any class if you get the jump on them while they’re busy fighting your allies.
S/D is more of a “get in, burst, get out, peel->start over”.
D/P is something like “get in->get out->shortbow”.

You said one shot, I guess it’s a group of skills combo, what’s your rotation from one skill to next in this “one shot”?

this is a backstab critial

another evis critical follow by a critial backstab you see it yourself

TheLastNobody.8319:

So what WOULD be an ideal backstab?

Comparing HP, toughness to other classes and condition required to trigger this skill, I think the backstab normal should be around 3-5k, critical should double the damage.

Again, some tanky class and high HP class already have this kind of burst in pvp (wvw might be even more)…. warrior’s final thrust can burst to 9k+, esv can easily hit 6k most of the time (see picture here), nec can spam life blast 3500 each x3 in three sec. so a 8-9k or even more backstab critical damage for a thief should be normal, it at least equals to other classes, currently, the backstab is around 600-900 for normal, and 2k-5k for critial, most time just around 2-3k. Backstab is the only burst skill a dagger thief has and now it’s like equal to auto attack…

Is there any other skills in this game requires 2-3 second time limit, position behind target and in 130 melee range?? IS THERE????

YOU ARE RIGHT, NONE!!! that’s why backstab needs to be rewarded as higher damage burst, especially behind the target.

The right logic should be the squishier class has a little bit higher burst damage, and tanky class or more hp class has a little bit lower burst, currently, it’s just the opposite… so how can squishier class survive the pvp under these burst tanks, as well as the full screen aeo spam, not even mention to win a fight. that’s why this rule is so true, 2 thieves in a team, that’s a losing team 99% of the time.

I saw a lot times, some one can jump and dodge at the same time, but I can not do it when press jump and dodge at the same time, any one knows how?

Choppy.4183:

Lol, ok buddy. Since you need me to hold your hand:

Here’s that guy’s thief build when converted to pvp:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoYVlsMp0pdPxxJ8PNRLBt9Ii+L88MxRzHEAA-TpRBwAROCAX3fYxhAgcZAAnAgHPAAA

Backstab base damage: 2336

Here’s a sword warrior with the same gear and trait distribution, and a fairly standard stance loadout:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQJAscjMdUFaZIehwJagfgyYAkAnrgU46VOH5OA-TJRBwAX3fgcZAAnAgHPAAA

Final Thrust base: 2581

Then compare the auto attacks, the other weapon skills, the stats (power, crit, etc) and the relative mitigation options.

Now, what are you crying about again?

Are you serious here? you put a signet on thief side to add 180 power, but didn’t put the same might signet for the warrior, and came up with these numbers here, even so, thief’s BS is still weak than FT, don’t play game here and pretending being smart… you really have that kind of sneaky personality don’t you lol

here is the number I got after removing power signet on thief and add it on warrior.
Backstab 2161
Final Thrust 2789

and warrior has 23472 HP vs, thief 15525,
warrior has 2093 armor vs thief 1995.

and I am done discussing with you, I don’t really like your tricky behavior, you are probably better suit for a thief since you are this sneaky…

Simon.3794:

my final thrust does only 1k damage, i have screenshot so im right. final thurst is weak,buff please.

Yeah, put your screenshot right here, can you?

Choppy.4183:

Lmao, you must be a troll. In case not, here is literally the first video I pulled when I googled “backstab thief gw2 youtube” (set to the point of the first fight):

http://youtu.be/aX1O1V-M-hw?t=26s

First battle’s against a thief in which he gets in a couple hits above 8.5k, and does over 40k in 10s (which includes the start of the fight and bursting through downed to dead). Next battle is against a guardian where he has at least one hit at almost 9k. Next battle is against a ranger, and he gets over 10k. And so on.

The cooldown on final thrust is 15s and it has an obvious telegraph. What’s the CD and telegraph on backstab again? Oh yeah….

If this is a serious post, and I don’t think I can believe it is, then you may just need more practice and better build design. The numbers you’re showing aren’t the numbers for a properly built glass thief.

You are truly the troll here, we are talking about Spvp here, you put a WvW video there from Aug, few patches ago, who is the troll, you tell me. btw, you know the difference between spvp and wvw, don’t you?

I put the evidence there and not just open my mouth like you did, please, either put something here that can show the truth, or just keep reading and be quiet. people can bla bla whatever they want like you just did, show me what’s the numbers for a properly built glass thief after this new patch.

this is the backstab exchange with another thief playe, thief is just a glass now, no cannon burst anymore

only 4 backstabs in this game I can see, 3 from me, and another one from an enemy thief in next pic

Backstab is dagger thief’s best burst, you guys want to see how much the damage is from it in just one game? I have all here, enjoy

This is the critical damage of backstab, after set up postion, get in melee range and stealth, this is the damage you got, some range auto attack is better than this ! you can also see another backstab from another thief did on me, similar damage range. I can keep posting this kind of damage all day long, but the truth is, the best damage burst of a thief is only 2k+ on critial, while nec hits 3500+ three times in a row, warrior can burst 9k+ from final thrust… not mention engineer and ele…

Thief is dead in pvp, here is the truth in front of your eyes.

The same fight in the same map

To show you how bad the backstab is now, see my screenprint. 760 for a backstab, this must be a joke…

I just posted at warrior section, about the final thrust damage, 9300 with single hit in spvp, not even in wvw, really? as a glassy cannon thief, I never had a single skill hit that hard, mostly around 2k-3k, once in a while around 5k.

Like title said, 9300 in just one hit, really? not in wvw, just in spvp. As a glassy cannon thief, I never had any single skill damage above 6k actually, warrior has heavy defense skills, huge HP advantages, insane regeneration, heavy armor and surely hits harder too.

Regardless special skills, which every class has one…. stealth is the only skill to defend as a thief, blind doesn’t work on aeo and cc, no shielding skill or spell, no heavy armor etc.

Due to the low defense skills thief has, low hp, low toughness etc, the burst damage should equal or a little better to other classes’ burst, to make up all these disadvantages thief has. Especially for backstab, it requires within 2-3 second of stealth, position right, and only 130 melee range, while target constantly running, jumping, turning, aeo spamming, cc etc.

What other skills in this game require blink of time, position and 130 melee range to trigger? this kind of skill need to be rewarded with higher damage.

Still, this is a rule, 2 thieves in a team cause a lose for sure, 99%, this means something. see it yourself. Truth is louder than all the bias statement here. Why, thieves spend more time laying on the ground dead, most of them rely on melee but squishy. and low burst damage, which make them only useful for the mobility.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

lots of other classes have spam skills, probably better spam skills, almost any class can spam skills. Nec hit me around 3500 three time in 3 sec by using life blast? it’s like 3 critical backstab in a row in 3 sec which is impossible for a thief to achieve.
You probably get all these from testing on a dummy. First you need to get into stealth before position, while stealth is like 2-3 sec, during this time period you need to catch up the target and get behind them, while they are constantly running, mirroring, stunning, aeo, CC. So please don’t make yourself look like a l0of here lol

Again, every class has its unique skill, it’s just thief has stealth which is not exclusive, other class can stealth better at this moment.
Thief is a lot squishier and less HP than most of the class, we just want our damage output can be equal or a little better comparing to other class.

I have all professions at 80. I main an elementalist but I did play all the others quite a bit. I’m not a good thief but I’m not ignorant about the class strength and how it feels to play a staff ele vs thief (an almost impossible fight to win). How much damage do you think your backstab routine does on my ele before I even have a chance to react? It is ridiculous and I’m no dummy. Had I devoted as much time to my thief as I did my ele I’d be hated by all.

As for spamming, there exist no profession with a greater spamming power than thief simply for the mechanical reason called initiative. Sure, you will all tell me “no good thief will spam” bla-bla, but you still can’t really look at other professions as if they had greater spam power than you. Nobody can match you at that game. Spamming is rarely a great strategy for a lot of builds as far as I know anyway so quit using that excuse as if only thief requires skill. To be honest, I find it infinitely easier to duel with my thief as bad as I am than it is with my staff ele as good as I am. If you don’t believe me try it, I’ll pick my thief and I’ll enjoy free stomping you. No duel is ez for a staff ele. None.

As for stealth, sure other prof has it but don’t you even dare try to compare Thief with them. None of them can perma stealth and disappear on demand. None of them can go invisible for anywhere as long as a thief either. I don’t mind engi and ranger stealth capability because the frequency and duration is very reasonable. Mesmers are more annoying not because their stealth is better but because couple with clones and all the mess in the field stealth becomes a pain. All other stealth professions can’t get away as easily if a fight turn bad. I have yet to encounter a thief who won’t catch-up to my staff ele eventually unless I can’t reach a tower.

When people complain about thief most thief answer is “play one yourself”. I could easily tell you the same and maybe you will understand 2 things. 1) Other professions are not as easy as you think, 2) The “play one” argument is pretty lame. You don’t want to play something else, you want to play what you like without having to bend over a prof every time.

Anyway, I was expecting ppl to QQ about thief not the opposite when I came to this sub-forum. You haven’t been on the receiving end of a thief enough in your life to speak like you do here is what I get.

Just read some replies below your statement, and I don’t need to say more, not just me who think your statement is bias, you claim thief players don’t need skills, and it’s an easy class. And, you said it yourself, you are not a good thief, that’s probably why you have such ignorant ideas about thief….btw, since thief is such an “easy” class, and you can not even play it well????

Don’t waste your time here, go read some other post, like rangers section, I am sure you can find out how long rangers can stealth and if it’s longer than thief in some case, and slap your face for me a few times, then come back and apologize.

Obviously there is something wrong in your mind, come to thief section and blast thief players don’t need skills, just spamming and stealth. Listed all these BS here. You know BS doesn’t stand for BackStab here, don’t you?

Picking on thief’s stealth, thief doesn’t have other unique skills which other class has, such as shield, mirror image etc. stop using stealth as an excuse to attack this class.

I am really wasting my time to argue with you here.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

SinisterWraith.2910:

What good is stealth when it doesn’t mitigate damage. And still get melted by AoE. Same thing with evasion it does not mitigate damage it requires skill to get out.

With the low crit damage and actually SKILL and POSITIONING to land a good back stab vs AoE melt DPS.

What is the point of playing thief? I love rogue/assassin classes in mmo’s but thief is lacking any real burst DPS relative to how squishy you are. If building more defensive you might as well go warrior and keep the dps while having the survivability. But who wants to build defensive with a rogue in the first place.

Spam-able abilities is no excuse either vs duration of conditions etc. Again most of the thief abilities are skill based vs AoE and conditions. From reading a lot of the earlier posts Thief looked like a lot of fun to play. I just don’t get that playing Thief now.

All of the skills are skill based. When you position your Meteor Shower, or any other AoE, you can’t do it stupidly or you will waste it. And it has a 30 sec cool down.

I don’t see much “skill” out of a HS spamming session that is a homing attack not needing to reacquire target even when the target has teleported in your back.

I don’t see that much skill in positioning yourself behind someone that doesn’t even know you are there. Sure, once your presence is revealed it is harder, but that still leave one one hell of a good free shot and is still easier than a lot of other attack to land.

If you think skill and positioning is not important for other professions start playing them a bit. You might be surprised…

lots of other classes have spam skills, probably better spam skills, almost any class can spam skills. Nec hit me around 3500 three time in 3 sec by using life blast? it’s like 3 critical backstab in a row in 3 sec which is impossible for a thief to achieve.
You probably get all these from testing on a dummy. First you need to get into stealth before position, while stealth is like 2-3 sec, during this time period you need to catch up the target and get behind them, while they are constantly running, mirroring, stunning, aeo, CC. So please don’t make yourself look like a l0of here lol

Again, every class has its unique skill, it’s just thief has stealth which is not exclusive, other class can stealth better at this moment.
Thief is a lot squishier and less HP than most of the class, we just want our damage output can be equal or a little better comparing to other class.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

SinisterWraith.2910:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

SinisterWraith.2910:

What good is stealth when it doesn’t mitigate damage. And still get melted by AoE. Same thing with evasion it does not mitigate damage it requires skill to get out.

With the low crit damage and actually SKILL and POSITIONING to land a good back stab vs AoE melt DPS.

What is the point of playing thief? I love rogue/assassin classes in mmo’s but thief is lacking any real burst DPS relative to how squishy you are. If building more defensive you might as well go warrior and keep the dps while having the survivability. But who wants to build defensive with a rogue in the first place.

Spam-able abilities is no excuse either vs duration of conditions etc. Again most of the thief abilities are skill based vs AoE and conditions. From reading a lot of the earlier posts Thief looked like a lot of fun to play. I just don’t get that playing Thief now.

All of the skills are skill based. When you position your Meteor Shower, or any other AoE, you can’t do it stupidly or you will waste it. And it has a 30 sec cool down.

I don’t see much “skill” out of a HS spamming session that is a homing attack not needing to reacquire target even when the target has teleported in your back.

I don’t see that much skill in positioning yourself behind someone that doesn’t even know you are there. Sure, once your presence is revealed it is harder, but that still leave one one hell of a good free shot and is still easier than a lot of other attack to land.

If you think skill and positioning is not important for other professions start playing them a bit. You might be surprised…

You say that as if people stand still all game.

Not at all. I say that as if there was a huge difference between trying to go for my back when I know there is a thief and doing the same when I don’t.

I don’t think you really played a thief in some pvp game, your statement right here are just funny without any support, we listed the numbers and situation to support our points, you just say, if you play other class you will see, why don’t you list some examples to show us. I know lots of people here talking about thief while their thief is level 20 in the game. Any class can catch you off guard, do you think rangers’ 1200 stun or 1500 burst you can foresee? show us your real numbers or situations, or just read please.

Don’t pick on thief’s stealth, some other class can stealth too, like rangers and engi, some ranger can even stealth longer than a thief, just read the ranger section.

Stealth is no better than some other defense skills like shield, mirror images or some bunker, just few sec of defense, does thief has shield, mirrors ? no, like any other class, it’s just part of the special skill, every class has one in this game, by using this excuse to nerf thief is totally bias.

Rangers can silently burst you 1500 away, with no casting time, no warning, that’s kind of “stealth”, don’t you think so? That’s why in wow and LOL, they put marks on the target before a long range burst to warn the target, so they can react, not in this game.

I agree with the second post here, thief is unplayable in pvp now, low hp, low defense, low damage, stealth is not thief’s exclusive skill, thief is nerfed to the ground. The best damage burst from this class sometimes is probably equal to an auto attack or less comparing to other class is a joke.

Comparing to other class like nec, warrior, ele and engi etc. thief’s burst damage is too low considering they are very squishy, lower hp, it’s a rule now, if there are two thieves in a team, it’s a sure lose. I had backstab at 2k on CRITICAL !! behind target a lot times, the best backstab is around 6k, when a nec can hit 3500 three time in a row in 3 sec, a warrior can hit 9k in one action, not mention ele and engi, the game is full of AOE damage and CC. if you notice, every pvp game, thieves are the one who is killed the most.

2133 power, 200% cir damage, 26600, d/p, also tried 26006, 60206 etc.