Guild Wars 2

Im sorry if this is an odd topic, but it is based on PvP, However I couldn’t see if fitting in any class forum or the two Player v Player subforums.

Lately from switching classes and leveling new classes, Ive started to found many very interesting playstyles that are very enjoyable when I was dueling and fighting multiples in WvW, but lately ive been wondering something; How is the counterplay in this game?

Its hard to explain exactly what counterplay is, and this video by Penny arcade’s Extra credit is the best i could find: http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/counter-play .

I guess one way to describe it which is paraphrase from that video is “an interesting mechanic that increases the meaningful choices for the player using it and the player it is being used on.”

Do you feel there are aspects in this game where this is evident? is there certain situations, skills or classes that you feel does not actually fit into the idea of counterplay?

If I could put an example for the latter question I would say Thief infiltrator’s strike on the sword. While the skill I find is interesting in its initial mechanic, It only seems to be something that adds and interesting choice for the thief himself and maybe mesmers as the hidden range for it is well over 1200 and doesn’t really offer much chance to counter or use it to your advantage in duels.

edit: if anyone was wondering what was the class I was playing that brought this into question, it was Mesmer. I was wondering this after playing with Staff untraited.

Sigh, this is going to sound really silly, but I am already reconsidering the Sylvari for human. I want the T3 cultural bad, but I like Sylvari Mannerisms. I am not sure if I should keep the sylvari or remake and then make a ranger into a sylvari at this point ._.;

Honestly. I am currently working on a Thief after finishing off mesmer, but Im so curious as to how everyone decided what race they chose. most of the time I see human females running around on my server as thieves using T3 cultural (which is amazing), but I chose to go sylvari simply because all my other characters was human.

Why did you choose the race you did and if you could go back and change, would you and for what reason?

I dont think anyone really cares, but just to point it out you can get Stability using lyssa runes. It works on Flesh golem charge, so has a 40s cooldown to activate with a 10sish internal cooldown (so you can’t summon golem and then charge for 10s of it)

not the best place, but I don’t think its worth a whole thread.

Podcast live was really awesome. It was nice to beable to ask questions (even though my 40s epidemic chill question was pretty silly to say).

I hope you guys do something like this again : )

Interactive podcast? Im in.

natsos.3692:

^So you are pretty much telling me that necros should be meatshield without any damage and only “control” the enemies in masses because we are not “sissy” or “poofy pillocks” and instead of that we are some “scary green/black things” .

Well this is not what a necromancer is, a necromancer will curse you, will summon things from the dead, will suck your life and heal, and will defense himself within the shadows.
Aegis,Vigor and protection does not fit the above concept of the necromancer, but we are playing a game with BOONS. Which means if you want to increase your defenses, you will either dodge(vigor) block(aegis) or reduce the incoming damage(protection). Now ALL of these should fit the necro, but because we are “shadow” and “scary” and “poisonous” we can’t have a “blue shield” or “don’t run like sissies” ? Guess what, that’s the only way we can get our defense, and if it fits or not we have to use it.
Go ahead and persuade ANet to change Aegis to something green, protection to something black, and vigor to “big tentacles” that lifts us off the ground and moves us around.

I will admit, I also have multiple 80s now. 3 exactly. Necro, Warrior, and Mesmer in that order.

Im pretty sure its because I played necro first, but lately after the mesmer, things feel ‘lacking’ on her. I enjoy playing still and I try to theorycraft, and so far Ive made decent builds that I would stick in WvW (Condi/Terror rabid build or Dagger Power with 3-5k life blast shots), but I do wish for a little update from the devs. dueling, 1v2s and 1v3s are alot easier on my mesmer and I barely even played it that long. can just sit back and completely avoid damage with blinks, dodges, invulns from blurred frenzy (8s CD which is insane) and just dish out damage via phantasms. Even if i do get hit, have like 2.6k toughness and about 19k hp.

Maybe its because Mesmers are flashy and thus people don’t know how to deal with them yet, but still there are alot of things that makes it so you can avoid damage on other classes. while DS does make necro tanky, the game right now revolves around negating damage entirely while dishing a good amount (not super high, but decent amount) at a reasonable pace.

I can’t say I have much to add to the conversation outside that right now, but just something I think some of you should think about. In a game with stuff like Distortion, Mist form, Elixir S, Stealth, Stability, Aegis, Endure pain, Blocking and active dodge skills… where do you feel Death shroud lies? a mechanic that, while makes you to mitigate damage;

1)takes a long time to fill up unless specced or running strictly power weapons (Spectral Attunement, Dagger mainhand auto attacks, Warhorn 5)

2)has its own ‘self condition’ of losing 4% every second.

3) does not allow you to be healed or build the life force up while within the form

4) still allows you to be hit by various CCs that a class like Mesmer can avoid every 8s?

Im not saying they should make it so you dont get hit by CCs… Im just pointing out a few things.

(sorry if i offend anyone, I am not trying to, although my horrible grammar may suggest otherwise)

edit: Tl;Dr : just need some help, kay. Mesmer is pretty easy to 1vx with btw. Also, I want some more finishers.

o_o that Historical list of traits makes me sad. A good portion of those seem pretty cool (ranged Necrotic Bite is smex to me). Shade seems godly OP, however I would want it. Leyline Mastery seems pretty good also.

Honestly though, I am hoping the devs take a serious look at the class. Someone said that SOAC gaming is going to have a talk with them soon on a podcast. I hope this is not just a rumor and is true. peeps know their stuff :o

Yes, my favorite podcast gets another update! : )

Bhawb.7408:

@Loyo, different balance for different classes. Null field is also notably different than WoP, which converts conditions to boons. As for why no vigor, I think thats a question all Necros everywhere would love to know.

This is true. I guess I should have woke up more a bit before I got to raging for a moment there. Sorry you had to see that train wreck. Honestly, though I think the class will be better off if we get vigor from somewhere. It doesn’t have to be from a skill, per ce. Maybe replace that minor trait reanimator with it. Thats how they did mesmers, giving them vigor on criticals on the first minor trait of dueling.

That and maybe add more combo finishers. I noticed after playing mesmer this also; they have leap finishers, blast and such on almost every weapon outside their scepter and focus. Life blast should atleast count as 20% , Axe 3 should be a blast also. we have alot of fields that would be awesome to use, but the most reliable finishers are either aquatic or staff. the other 2 are minions, which we have to sacrifice in able to use them.

I would go on about other things, but I feel that most of them have been mentioned already (reworking of traits, stability on lower trait tier, Death shroud wind up times, etc)

Im not going to go into too much, but I have to make this remark as it confuses me: Why are some of our skill CDs so high and no vigor? After playing both Mesmer and Warrior, It is kind of crazy to think that our Elite skills and well CDs are so long. I haven’t been playing the mesmer at 80 too long, but its crazy that their Null field is 45s untraited AND you can ground target it. I do know that our Well of power does damage, but its still silly.

edit: sorry, wrong well. I meant Well of corruption does damage. Well of power Is the one that gives boons, not rips off them and converts. granted, it does do have a good place, but they have a skill that cleanses and rips boons instantly after hitting the wall.

gosh, I should drink my coffee, I sound dumb in the morning.

21. Most people I play with are between 23 and 34

Going to download and play well. I said the same thing about neverwinter, and I haven’t been on that since day 1…

I know this is strange to say, but there needs to be a confirmation on Jon Peter’s current stance on Necromancer as a class.

Blackmoa.3186:

I talked to Jon Peters in the mists, aparently necro is compeltely fine and viable casue we have 2 healthbars.
Who needs invulnerability, vigor, mobility, ways to disengage or even working skills or useful traits when you ahve deathshroud.

Sooooo what you are saying is delete my necro or accept the fact that we will never see good tournament representation because we are supposedly ‘fine’?

Well. um. Idk what to say.

Someone show me a WvW video of Necro 1vXing. please.

And to add to the conversation, Thieves gameplay is annoying in concept, and a bit OP with stealth stacking, but god, there is dodge in the game people. Use it. Also, they aren’t kings in 1v1s.

Didn’t read thread before. 10/10 regrets for not reading before. But the laughs make up for it.

Kravick.4906:

Loyo.8526:

This makes me wish I rolled ranger… F it, Ima go roll one.

I did. Only been 80 for a week and I’ve already won countless 1vX fights in WvW using this build. I’ve also found rangers to be no where near as bad as the people on the ranger forums make them out to be. I’ve also found ranger pets to be leagues better than necro minions.

I have won 1vXs on necro, but they are few and far between. I don’t know how fast i will level the ranger as I am still working on a Mesmer that is 46ish.

John Peters has came to give a response? wait, 2 responses!?

Pinch me, I must be dreaming. this is a happy moment.

OmegaProject.9831:

This is for you.

This makes me wish I rolled ranger… F it, Ima go roll one.

Sadly, because of the way Damage % works, it would need some actual testing. However, judging from your effective power, I would suggest you could as you have more than I do with my build (3973 E.P. and only 2.4k armor or 1.5k Toughness) and I hit for about 2.4k via Dagger on the regular (can’t speak for axe too much; Highest I ever hit was 7k on a non-upscale. doesn’t happen normally). It has some crit damage, but its not so high that it seems you are incredibly reliant on it.

I would probably drop Spiteful Talisman and get might stacking instead. Its good, but the Focus 4 is still bugged, so you are basically only improving the range of your slow/boon hate skill, which sounds nice but why improve one skill when you can improve your whole arsenal via might stacking? Also, you already have Spectral grasp which, while being a projectile, takes just as much time to cast as Boon hate/slow. Also, you should switch Bloodlust for Percision stacking. A full stack of it will give you 47% crit rate, which is nice considering it will help you get more crits in with Ghastly Claws.

Sigh, between watching this tournament and lots of theorycrafting lately on Necro, Its pretty easy to see how some classes (*cough*mesmers*cough*) Can counter so much that is thrown at them while having a lot of getaways. Sure, they dont have easy access to Swiftness, but there are runes for that. Anet really should watch a few of these (sepecifically the Necro vs Mesmer ones) and take note of a few things.

Bhawb.7408:

You’re basically naming a super version of Spectral Grasp. The problem with such an ability is that it would be hard to implement and balance. Each pull is a hard CC, meaning you’ll be intermittently interrupting everyone around you, along with setting up AoE based team comps incredibly well.

Doesn’t Focus 4 on Mesmer work like a short ranged Super Spectral Grasp? I mean, it literally pulls multiple mobs across a line and interrupts them just like you said. I could be wrong, as I read most of the post before, but not in full.

edit: for anyone wondering, No it doesn’t specifically pull someone close to you, but It can if placed at a certain angle. the skill pulls people from higher places also since its ground target and not a projectile. (castle walls) The CD on it is 25s , which is very similar to traited Spectral Grasp. difference is of course that the requirement of Mesmer is that it must be in range of the line you placed and that it only pulls so far past the actual line (i think maybe 400-600 range). Like i said, its short ranged :/

I can’t say much about not having greater marks. For my norm set of power I run D/WH and Axe/Focus . However, for condition set, not having Greater marks is a sin as lots of things block in this game (Aegis from Mesmer and guardian, Block skill from guard, War, Mesmer, Ranger plus the range it covers) But, your focus as axe is mostly single target, so just be careful on placement and understand that they could block, but its not too much a DPS loss unless its Staff 4 (which is your Condition removal, but also the highest hitting mark on staff) .
edit: just realized I linked the wrong one for the last post. here it is, the Ascended changes : http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/necromancer/?5.0|7.1n.h2.d.1n.h4|6.1n.h1j|1n.7e.1n.7e.1n.7e.1n.7e.1n.7e.1n.7e|2s.0.2t.0.2u.0.21j.0.31j.0.2u.0|u2ab.a5.0.0.u46b|2e.1|3r.48.49.46.4e|e

The build you posted just now is overall alot better as it still plays well without the outlandish requirements or even if you use your staff. I would, however, take off spectral Armor as I find it not useful even if using reduced CD or attunement.

The 1% lifeforce build on crit is ok on paper, but I would suggest taking weakening shroud instead. 33% on 40% crit rate doesn’t really shine so well compared to weakening players around you. However, you can suggest the idea that this only helps when they dont crit on you, So its a toss up.

Also, Keep in mind that your CD for Axe 2 will be 6 seconds, so technically it will be up before half a DS CD, so maybe throwing Axe 3 and then DS 1 x2 would work also.

The only thing that worries me is that Axe DPS isn’t that high to begin with, so you this is alot of power to build into it, However, the balance seems really good and its ranged.

If you are interested, I modified the build to accommodate Ascended gear, should you want to go for it. Here is the link: http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/necromancer/?5.0|7.1n.h2.d.1n.h4|6.1n.h1j|1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e|1n.9c.1n.9c.1n.9c.1n.9c.1n.9c.1c.9c|u2ab.a5.0.0.u46b|2e.1|3r.48.49.46.4e|e

edit: I hope you don’t mind :s Also, ascended changes in post below

None of this build is glitched. The damage increase comes from your axe’s Sigil and trait give you 15% more, along with the 10% from +90% hp and +50% DS. If you take away that extra 15% from the last two, however, your effective power drops 4487 If you fall below both threshold.

This may seem a bit OP, until you factor in the fact that this is just effective power, not Damage. the Damage on axe 1 is relatively low, and while you can put out decent damage with your axe 2, your crit rate is still extremely low and you currently have no access to fury if alone. The build has potential still, however, as it sounds like from other recent forum post that the 15% increase of damage applies to DS if you still have it equipped. Also, it has a good amount of effective HP. Still, the part of the build that really makes it hard to recommend is the harsh requirements couples with low crit rate. anything below 40% is usually ok, but not great if you want to take advantage of crit damage consistently. Fury would make it easy to get away with, which is why some Warriors actually run below 40%.

Tl;Dr, Yes you do have that effective power, but only on Axe skills and when you meet the >90% HP and >50% DS requirements. without that and if you were using another weapon (staff), you would have around 3379 effective power.

An update of My necro, Khloe! here are both her sets. First being Power, second being condition

I hate the cooldown. Honestly, I find myself often trying to dip full 30 into Soul reaping just to get reduced cooldown so I don’t feel punished for trying to get the fury or retaliation attached to it.

Also, the trait for retaliation in DS is kind of small. 5s would be a little more generous than just 3s.

Besides that, DS isn’t completely horrid but it needs some work. While life blast isn’t a projectile, it would be nice if it at least counted for 20% chance like Staff 1. It also has a pretty long windup considering you lose about 4% of DS a second while inside. The speed of DS 2 isn’t painfully slow, but it would be nice if it had more range or teleported you to the end of the protectile via a secondary skill if pressed 2 again before it ends (this Would be probably OP though, and would merit DS being on a 10s CD) . Fear could have an extra second or half a second.

edit: DS 4 is pretty good, but I admit that I miss the bug that allowed you to continue the channel from outside DS. Now the only way for this to occur is if DS ends due to life force being at 0% .

Its ok It was nice to watch still. maybe next time. And please don’t shave :x don’t need monks in this game.

(my warrior is an alt, so if I get things wrong, please be brutal and correct)

My warrior right now has two sets for WvW, each having around 3k armor due to my trait set up (20/0/20/10/20) and about 1989 without Signet of Might. 37% crit rate, 55%~ crit damage.
both of my sets are oriented towards removing Conditions in some way, with one being Melandru’s and the other being soldier. Thing is, I have been finding my Melandru’s set to be more useful as of late due to food for cond. duration decrease. As much as I dont mind retiring a set, I prefer to have two viable ones since both are close in stats. Lyssa seemed like a good alternative, as it gave Precision which means higher DPS. However, the main attraction was the 6th portion, which gives all boons and acts as a condition removal, effectively making Warrior’s already strong ultimate even stronger.

My question is, do you think it even compares to soldier’s function? granted, FGJ and Shake it off are on short cooldowns, they still only remove one extra.

Ah. thank you then : ) Now i have to find a way to get a decent build going however. :x seems like traits in Spite are ok, but many good ones are in soul reaping. currently running 10/20/0/20/20 .

I was wondering if anyone knew the numbers for exactly how each attack on Dagger main hand and Axe scales with power. reason Im asking is I am wondering if its better to go into High crit damage vs High Power for necro.

Rodyan.9241:

Great thread, but somehow i can’t manage to open gw2.buildcraft.com. Tried like every browser but still can’t open it. Any ideas ?

are you copying the link and putting it in the url or not?

Anyway, I guess Il add to this discussion since I really need an Opinion on this build:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/necromancer/?5.3|8.1n.h1.g.1g.h1j|7.1g.h14.d.1p.h15|1n.7r.1n.7r.1n.7r.1n.7r.1n.7r.1n.7r|2s.0.2t.0.3s.0.21k.0.31k.0.2u.0|u2ac.a4.0.0.u46b|0.i|3r.4d.48.49.0|e

The build is based around Melandru runes and Lemongrass soup. Pick it from the menu to see full effects of vitality and Condition duration (70+ Vitality and -65% condition duration on self + -25% stun Duration on self) . I wanted a Power build that didn’t have too much problem with being overwhelmed with condition (Heal is there, but it does have a CD).

for Comparison, this is what I am currently running:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/necromancer/?5.3|8.1n.h1.g.1g.h1j|7.1g.h14.d.1p.h15|1n.7c.1n.7c.1n.7c.1n.7c.1n.7c.1n.7c|3s.0.1n.67.1n.67.1n.67.1g.67.1i.67|k25.a4.a6.0.u46c|0.i|3r.4d.48.49.0|e

any input would be nice. On how i feel about the subject, I like the idea of maybe one Soldier piece, but since I usually spec into spite, I have the problem of having a decent amount of power but never a good amount of precision. Knights works because of this. If you are going down the line and getting Spectral attunement, It may be worth it to have a few soldier pieces. Really tanky though.

Its fine. I am having the same problem actually. I rolled an alt warrior from being a Necro so long. I used to whine and complain about necro being bugged, this and that, and all this stuff, but the moment I got my warrior to 80 and geared them, I went back to the Necro table and redid her. Found millions of Viable builds for PvE and WvW. Power Necro, Terror based, Condition, Debuffing Power Dagger, Wells, Healing, Fisher/ Poseidon, etc.

But…. When I went back to the table of Warrior to try and find some different things (only big change was got more DPS via zerker parts while retaining 3k armor, trying Melandru’s vs Soldier right now), I didn’t really have much problem with condition removal on most movement impairments. They just fell off within half of seconds so I could mend an shake off some bleeds. But, the problem was that you are literally Vulnerable almost all the time compared to other classes. Pure tankiness in this game helps, but not like you would think. Guardians do well because of blinds, heals, and Aegis and protection. Mesmers eat your cooldowns using clones. Thieves pop in and out of stealth. Necros flip in and out of death shroud with their 2nd HP going up almost twice as fast as their first goes down with retaliation. Engie and Eles have multiple ways of stacking boons + invuln. Rangers… well, they have a heal i guess. But Warriors? Tankiness and some blocks.

That can be fine, but alot of these classes that warriors fight can have tankiness too. Its rough, and some of the two handers have problems. Greatsword’s 5 basically is exclusively for running since it takes forever for it to actually attack anyone, Hammer 4 is pretty much the most useless skill in the game, and Hundred blades… so much damage yet you are sitting there, rooted the whole time. I don’t care if you are great at warrior, your chances of fighting a high class Mesmer and actually hurting them is slim. Its sad, though, because the class has some promise. However, that being said, I will admit that maybe there is just more out there. I can’t say I have tried sword, and only ran double mace in spvp.

Anyway, I’m just blowing steam also, so I am sorry for the constant grammatical errors and misspellings

Usually for my Dagger Powermancer I run 20/10/10/0/30 and take things such as condition removal on flashing DS to deal with annoying condition stacking bleed since I dont run staff as a secondary (Axe/focus instead). However, I heard from another thread listed ( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Questions-about-vampiric-master/first#post1959832 )
That vampiric master doesn’t give more damage, but all other traited siphon skills do. If thats the case, does your damage by the amount you siphon for with Vampiric and Vampiric Percision? If so, is this damage effected by toughness or is it a flat 59 added?

Also, one last question may be opinion based, but how do you feel about BiP over Well of Suffering ?

I run dagger Powermancer also and the only way Ive dealt with them is basically flipping in and out of DS during the time they are stealthed. basically build DS via autos and spectral walk and when they stealth, give it maybe 1 to 2 seconds and flip DS. if you have retaliation specced it helps also. outside that, using Well of Suffering really helps. if you get a root, daze with horn and immediately Well of suffering. the root will give you about 2-3 ticks before they are free. It also helps to run in these wells when you know they will come back to attack.

I will say it helps to have an Axe for extra retaliation, but fear circles help to sit in. Outside that, just watch their movements and predict so you can get some attacks when they stealth.

Nausicca.6038:

Loyo.8526:

that [XOXO] Guild. Eles are not easy and Mesmers (while being mesmers) are fun and painful.

Are you MY Loyotaemi?

If you mean the one who said he would log on and never did until maybe a month ago? yes. I am playing again. I stopped playing Tera and League of Legends.

that [XOXO] Guild. Eles are not easy and Mesmers (while being mesmers) are fun and painful.

PvP for me is just plain depressing… decided after a month break to get back to the game and start off in sPvP… realizing that everything still destroys my Necro and Ranger…. So hard to get back into =_=

My newly 80 necro, Khloe.

Level 64 Necromancer, 7/10.

Enjoy the game, kinda sad to see people leaving, but for some reason after so many MMOs, I can expect this. Also would like some bug fixes for my class though…. Its really hard to play sometimes.

I barely see necro being played by anyone in tournament nowadays. Is it because they are bad or just uncommon?

I just reached 30 and spent most of my time in the game playing the Structured PvP in the heart of the mists on various classes. While I do enjoy necro, I really don’t see them being viable outside of maybe Staff+ condition builds. Because of this, Ive went on a kind of ‘soul searching’ in sPvP and basic PvE, trying out different weapons and utilities to see if there are more options outside the norm. Not many were successful outside a tanky dps, vampiric well-dropping dagger Necro. Anyone else find any decent specs or have an idea on how the class is at max level?

Surpisingly, I haven’t had many problems with the game crashing outside one time during an sPvP match. Game seems to be running smooth on most of my buddies computer’s also (Outside it kind of causing a few graphic cards to heat up into the 80+ range… watch out for this, people :o).