Guild Wars 2

Ksaweri.7513:

I’m absolutely positive that’s the only reason it could be but I can understand the scepticism.

I put alot of orders in for the stuff I was buying on saturday and there was a fairly quick turnaround then boom it hit 10pm GMT and that was it, I couldn’t list anything and “Error attempting to sell” is all I get now (and yes I’ve relogged).

Sometimes happens for me too, but few minutes and it’s normal again. Also, TP sometimes(rarely) completely freezes on search.
TP is unstable, and even not working at all, for some people. It’s technical issue.

Tekla.2139:

Well, in mine opinion it should be, if you are substantially changing the market price and hindering the other player experience by doing so: You deserve to be banned for at least 15 day. Also the profit you have been made should be stripped out your account.
I’m not saying that you can’t buy low volume of goods and reselling these in later shortage day’s for profit, i’m saying that if you buy good and increase it’s price by 800% you are a little kitten and messing the market for us all.
So, yea exploiting the market should be a bannable offense.
Item you have bought from TP should be bound to the price you have paid off and shall have a soft cap of % ( like 30% ) which u can made by reselling it again using the TP.

So, TP is an exploit?
Laughable.

Ksaweri.7513:

If you are talking about me in particular I was buying items for examping for say 15s, and selling them for 20-30s etc.

I was trading on the trading post.

Are you sure that trading was reason for ban? I made much more than that by trading, so there must be another reason.

Ahh excellent, so whilst there are a glut of people trying to profit off buy/sell orders, there is still good profit to be made?

A lot of. Don’t expect very fast profits, like 10-100 gold in hour, but 1-1.5g is normal, without too much effort.

Wazabi.1439

Any investments or speculation involves 2 factor: expected return, and risk (standard deviation). Most of us work it out intuitively, but professional investors quantify these things. Inclusion of a fee reduces the expected return, requiring a larger upward movement of price in order to break even or make profits, while incurring an automatic lost upon purchasing.

Removing fees makes it easier to make profit from upward price movements…hence less risk involved. Now put this into the context of cornering the market to artificially raise the price. With the fee, the speculator needs to raise the price by x% (transaction fee) more…is that harder or easier? Then we have a market of 2 million participants (rather than 20000) to move the price back to it’s “fair” value (equilibrium or whatever you want to call it). This is a reason that there were cries to increase a higher transaction cost on forex to reduce speculative activity.

Any market that is not perfectly efficient encourages speculation. Speculators spends time to extracts/knows information that is not available to the public, or create the opportunity…or just simply taking risk. These action generate a possibility of greater reward to those who knows how to do it…off course they are encouraged to do so..not just here, but in any game. Warren Buffet admitted that if the market were efficient, he wouldn’t have been what he is today.

Unfortunately, a perfectly efficient market is just a theoretical concept…it doesn’t exist in the real world. Anyone that can design such a market is worthy of a nobel prize.

Don’t forget, gw2 is a game, and market there is artifcial. Also, items like armor and weapons, have a diminishing demand, that could go up only if there is more players joining(or alts). Supply could be lowered by more people giving up on crafting(except for leveling alts).
Also, speculations is part of any market in mmo games(and in real world), and for gw2.
For expample, EvE. Here you can lost everything, from ship to implants, so there is neverending demand for ships, ship modules, implants(not crafted). Also there is many ways to generate income for playes, mining, crafting, explorations(valuable drops from npc), trading(buying from hubs, and selling in other systems), missions(quests) etc. And, of course, speculations. Some of those lowrisk(only npc as enemies), some highrisk(lowsec space).
So, market in EvE is less artificial, and there is many ways to increase purchase power for players.
As for GW2, there is much lower and diminishing demand. And a lot less ways to increase purchase power. And, current system on sell orders, benefits those with greater purchase power, hence speculants. Crafters, for obvious reasons, having a less purchase power than non-crafters(who sells all gathered resources).
Speculant, with a much greater purchase power, can trade in many different positions, compensating loss of relisting one or two. Crafter – can’t, having a lot less purchase power. So, money put in crafted items is on hold; or crafter can just relist order, for a much less profit, and nothing to compensate.
Speculation on margin between buy and sell orders – very profitable.
Lik copper ore, buy order for 17, sell order for 21.
For 100 units – 2100-1700-105-210=85c.
Or platinum ore, buy order for 9, sell order for 12.
For 100 units – 1200-900-60-120=120c.
Not much, but very fast.

Ziggy.7319:

Maxster.4521:

If you are allowed to change the price without the need to relist it again, people would post the item up for as low as possible so their 5% fee is also as low as possible, then up the price immediately to the market value of the item in order to get around the 5% fee as much as possible.

And that was an answer for

There is a simple fix for this problem: Allow sellers to lower their prices for free.

Laughable. Learn to read.

…uhm….okay….. o.O
pretty sure that answers his question on why you shouldn’t be able to change a price once you’ve posted it.

Except suggestion was about lowering price for free.

lol yes, I just sell my items and buy new ones instead of repairing them, at least if they’re greens, doesn’t work for yellow items anymore :-p
The loss you make by selling+buying an item is just a few copper (buy new item on TP, vendor old one), in comparison to several silver repair cost, higher than the item’s value.

That’s just…
Make me wonder, why not have recipies for consumable repairs, and get rid of the repair vendors. At least such items will never fall in price.

I can see this an a valid idea, on the condition that the initial listing fee stays the same. But keep in mind that if this were allowed, it would cause problems with the marketplace. People would just constantly undercut each other over and over (even in real time with market campers), thus ruining the in-game economy. Buyers would LOVE it, but item values would plummet in a price war, and that’s never good for both sides.

That would be solved by appropriate timer on price change. Like 10-15 minutes.

My suggestion for those who don’t want to get undercut: Sell to the highest offered price. That’s instant. If you want to make more money and post on the open market, realize it’s a slight gamble once you post. Undercutting is a legit tactic.

In that case, no need to craft item. Just sell components, and you make more, than selling to buy orders.

If you are allowed to change the price without the need to relist it again, people would post the item up for as low as possible so their 5% fee is also as low as possible, then up the price immediately to the market value of the item in order to get around the 5% fee as much as possible.

And that was an answer for

There is a simple fix for this problem: Allow sellers to lower their prices for free.

Laughable. Learn to read.

Though I am going to have to agree with Wazabi on this one, you shouldn’t be allowed to change the prices after you have posted as it would get you around the 5% listing fee.

Here we get another speculant

illgot.1056:

Maxster.4521:

Person A sets an item for 50 copper.

Person B sets an item for 49 copper.

Person C sets an item for 48 copper.

Person A resets their price free of charge to 47 copper.

Person B resets their price free of charge to 46 copper.

Person C resets their price free of charge to 45 copper.

Repeat this, not with 3 people but with 200 people all freely undercutting each other until the floor is met.

Now, with the current system we at least take out 5% of the posting fee as a money sink each time people do this. This also stops people from radically lowering their price every time someone posts below them because eventually they will completely lose any profit by constantly canceling sell orders and reposting them for 1 copper to beat out the person that just undercut them.

I thought this would be obvious but I guess I have to spell it out for some people. Allowing players to freely change their sell price will do nothing but net you less for each item and do away with a decent money sink.

In EvE, actually, there is small fixed fee on lowering sell order price. And 5 minutes timer for change(once in 5 minutes, you changed – wait for another 5 minutes). For GW2, it’s like 15 minutes or something.
Speculants will whine on those changes.

The fee is a requirement. The timer may help a little against 1-2 people in a war to try and undercut each other, but even they won’t undercut each other so much they lower the price to the floor.

A timer would be completely useless when 20-30 people are trying to undercut each other by 1 copper.

That’s depends on how fast sells particular item. If it’s like 10-15 in interval time – it will help. And, if it’s like 1 in a 4-6 intervals – those 20-30 people just go for another item.

illgot.1056:

Maxster.4521:

Wazabi.1439:

Do you know reducing transaction cost makes speculation easier? How do you intend to address that?

And do you know how price is determined by supply/demand and all these undercutting is just white noise fluctuations? How does that affect the price in e long run?

Truth is, that current system encourages speculants and punishes crafters. So of course, speculants are happy, and not wanting to change that. Adding EvE trading system, with small fixed fee for lowing price, and 5 min timer on change(or 10 min) will help crafters. And, rises buy orders price, because it will be easier to sell without 5% loss on price change.

only because crafting does not really create superior items compared to drops. That is an itemization issue, not a TP issue.

I agree, TP is only a part of a problem. But it adds to uselessness of crafting.

Person A sets an item for 50 copper.

Person B sets an item for 49 copper.

Person C sets an item for 48 copper.

Person A resets their price free of charge to 47 copper.

Person B resets their price free of charge to 46 copper.

Person C resets their price free of charge to 45 copper.

Repeat this, not with 3 people but with 200 people all freely undercutting each other until the floor is met.

Now, with the current system we at least take out 5% of the posting fee as a money sink each time people do this. This also stops people from radically lowering their price every time someone posts below them because eventually they will completely lose any profit by constantly canceling sell orders and reposting them for 1 copper to beat out the person that just undercut them.

I thought this would be obvious but I guess I have to spell it out for some people. Allowing players to freely change their sell price will do nothing but net you less for each item and do away with a decent money sink.

In EvE, actually, there is small fixed fee on lowering sell order price. And 5 minutes timer for change(once in 5 minutes, you changed – wait for another 5 minutes). For GW2, it’s like 15 minutes or something.
Speculants will whine on those changes.

Wazabi.1439:

Do you know reducing transaction cost makes speculation easier? How do you intend to address that?

And do you know how price is determined by supply/demand and all these undercutting is just white noise fluctuations? How does that affect the price in e long run?

Truth is, that current system encourages speculants and punishes crafters. So of course, speculants are happy, and not wanting to change that. Adding EvE trading system, with small fixed fee for lowing price, and 5 min timer on change(or 10 min) will help crafters. And, rises buy orders price, because it will be easier to sell without 5% loss on price change.

Maybe 5% tax for buy orders? I would like to hear whining of speculants

Freyar.3254:

Wazabi.1439:

I don’t believe I’ve seen that much complain on the market in eve….

Not really. People tell you to shut it and move on to better markets if Jita isn’t your thing. (Though the economics of Jita was always fun especially with Goon’s impact..) I think part of the problem here is that it’s one market over ALL the servers.

Living in lowsec more fun than Jita

Tallenn.9218:

I ran into this issue this weekend, but on the buy side. It was annoying, but it is short term.

Eventually, the market (on popularly traded items at least) will get to a point where the sell orders are lists at almost exactly 15% over the buy orders. They will fluctuate some, but the spread should remain relatively consistent. Once that happens, making 1c differences won’t happen regularly.

Just give the market some time to stabilize.

That is correct for items with constant demand. Not for weapons and armor.

Idgarad.6105:

Tears… Welcome to Economic PvP. We former Eve Online players know this meta-game all to well. Wait till you get some serious demand for say 50,000 units copper ore.

For those of use that fought in the Trit and Moon Mineral wars, your tears are… delicious.

In EvE, you can adjust price for a small fixed fee(to lower price) every 5 minutes, here – you can’t. So resetting order cuts your profit by 5%. In EVE, you can sell your own crafted goods, and fast, without losing 5% for every price change.
So, market here is more beneficial to speculators.

Freyar.3254:

Maxster.4521:

So, Wal-Mart is paying tax 5% of the set price every time they decide to lower price or list a new commodity?
I guess such comments come from those, who haven’t even tried trading on TP.

Wal-Mart does have to pay (through labor or otherwise) to change prices, but it just simply doesn’t matter to them in the long run. Part of me thinks availability is far too high, which is causing an overall lower price for materials in the long run which reduces the “wiggle room” for people trying to sell.

You can’t dictate what I put my price up for, and if you decide to put it up for 1.00.00, I’ll put it up for 0.99.99 because I can forgo a copper just to make sure it leaves my list.

So, your example was completely irrelevant to the topic. Good.

illgot.1056:

Maxster.4521:

Freyar.3254:

Why are you upset about being undercut? Why didn’t you set YOUR price to what you expected to be undercut by? Celestia, smite thy marketeers that abuse the privilege of setting their own price, for no one is allowed to do so so long as it inconveniences you.

There’s a reason why Wal-Mart reduces prices by an insignificant amount between one penny to twenty cents. Competition is everywhere, and you really just need to learn how to deal with it.

So, Wal-Mart is paying tax 5% of the set price every time they decide to lower price or list a new commodity?
I guess such comments come from those, who haven’t even tried trading on TP.

I buy and sell with such large numbers that canceling items and reposting them does little to my over all profit.

Yes, I may lose 5%-20%, but I sell so quickly by constantly undercutting I actually make more money by constantly moving inventory.

Of course. I’m doing the same, when speculating.
And with crafting, for example

leatherworking
prices for mats in
tier 2
Vigorous outlaw cloack
6.48

3 bone shards
1.65 – 1.30
495-390

3 thread
16
48
5 leather
15 – 9
75 – 45
2 bolt of wool
39 – 31
78 – 62

listing fee
32.4
max
696 c
profit -48
-listing fee -48-32.4= -80.4
-sell tax -80.4-64.8=-128.8
min
545
profit 103 (15%)
-listing fee 103-32.4=70,6
-sell tax 70.6-64.8=5.8

if reset price once for 2c lower(for undercut)
lf 101-32.4-32.4=36.2
st 36.2-64.8=-28.6

Vigorous outlaw cloak (master)
6.85
8 bone shard
1.65 – 1.30
1320 – 1040
8 thread
128
5 leather
15-9
75-45
2 bolt of wool
39-31
78-62

max
1601
profit
-916
min
1275
profit
-590

most profitable t2 green atm -
Strong outlaw pants(master)
15.85
8 vial of thin blood
1.69 – 1.38
1352 – 1104
7 thread
112
4 leather
15-9
60 – 36
2 bolt of wool
39 – 31
78 – 62

listing fee
79.25
max
1602
profit -17
-listing fee -17-79.25= -96.25
-sell tax -96.25-158.5=-274.75
min
1314
profit 271(17%)
-listing fee 271-79.25=191.75
-sell tax 191.75-158.5=33.25

if reset price once for 2c lower(for undercut)
lf 269-79.25-79.25=110.5
st 110.5-158.5=-48

So, TP only useful for speculating.

Freyar.3254:

Why are you upset about being undercut? Why didn’t you set YOUR price to what you expected to be undercut by? Celestia, smite thy marketeers that abuse the privilege of setting their own price, for no one is allowed to do so so long as it inconveniences you.

There’s a reason why Wal-Mart reduces prices by an insignificant amount between one penny to twenty cents. Competition is everywhere, and you really just need to learn how to deal with it.

So, Wal-Mart is paying tax 5% of the set price every time they decide to lower price or list a new commodity?
I guess such comments come from those, who haven’t even tried trading on TP.

Buy everything that is undercutting you. Then re-list it.

Sure. Great way to waste more money.

Great post! I really hope that at least something from that list will be implemented.
As for now… Crafting for level up – it’s just wrong, i think. Profit? Forget about that, crafting for profit is too dull and uninteresting.
Maybe that was intentional, to make crafting useless money sink. I don’t know for sure.
I just speculate on TP and waste profit on crafting and discoveries.

And about listing tax. Inability to change sell orders without losing profit – that’s final and fatal strike.

Someone in a starter zone can still make multiple silver for every basically-insignia’d copper armor piece they sell and have a gold within an hour or two if they really wanted to in current market conditions. If you find crafting to be useless for the purposes of money-making you’re not crafting the right objects at the right times.

So, how much you made on crafting exactly?

Materials and crafted items completely opposite in context of gw2 market. They are always needed, at least while someone in gw2 is crafting at all. And crafted items, can be sold only once to one character. Why anyone would need another coat of the same type and level?
Supply>>>demand, so price goes down. By 1c at a time.

Because of 5% list tax, and impossibility to change(lower) price for listed item without losing already small profit, crafting is completely useless(unprofitable).

I’d like that to be implemented too.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

One of the biggest problems for people trying to make money on the TP are people who list items for insignificantly lower prices than the previous low in order to get their item sold first.
On higher-end items, that 1c difference is completely and utterly meaningless, no one will even bat an eye at the difference, but it still gets the cheaper one sold first.

A way to kill this ridiculous behavior would be to prevent people from listing items for an insignificant amount less than the previous listing (say, 1 or 2 percent).
This would force people that undercut prices in order to cut in line to actually have to notice the loss.

TP is designed for speculations, so it will stay that way The faster is item is sold, the faster will be bought another one, so profit/hour be higher. And if you’re talking about crafting – crafting is not for profit, it’s just for … something. Money sink, perhaps.

I say harder, not impossible. The higher transaction cost and market participants than other games makes it harder to corner the market and move prices. Crafting is broken to those who thinks they can make big money from it…in which that wasn’t what the dev wants, and at least clearly stated in the strategy guide. Even if you don’t know that, it is pretty obvious that you won’t be making money crafting since it is so easy to max hence many people can do it.

Funny.
So, if not for profit, then why craft at all?
Few reasons i can think of.
To level up. To make some items for yourself and friends(or|and guild).
For fun – costs too much.

And that’s why the one thing TP is good for – speculating. And it will stay that way.

Wazabi.1439:

It is actually harder to speculate in this game due to the larger market and 15%…

Harder than what? Trying to sell crafted items without ability to lower price of the sell order, with price for those items will eventually fall to floor?
Really, speculation is not so easy, but it’s only way to get gold. And it is much more fun, than grinding. Compared to a broken crafting(selling crafted items, to be specfic), that’s only alternative. Or, you can always put hundred of $ in the game

Eromis.9405:

On a sidenote, don’t be overly concerned about being undercut. With this being a global economy, items go up and down in price rather frequently. I’ve found myself to be undercut severely at times, only to come back the next day to see that the price has gone back up to higher than what I posted it and my items have been sold.

Find a good median, and don’t be afraid to post items a little bit higher than what the lowest price is at the moment. You have a large amount of people buying, and with patience most items will sale.

Sure. That’s why i have 30 green crafted items, which i can’t sell for week.
Actually, for a game with non-destructible items, demand for such items is low, and destination of the price for such items is floor.

No, and you shouldn’t be able to. Here is why:

If you are allowed to change the price without the need to relist it again, people would post the item up for as low as possible so their 5% fee is also as low as possible, then up the price immediately to the market value of the item in order to get around the 5% fee as much as possible.

There is simple solution, like in EVE.
To lower price of the sell order, you need to pay small fixed fee(like 10c).
To rise price of the sell order, you need to pay percetange, so it should be equivalent to a placing new order for that price.
Problem solved.
As for now, TP only useful for speculating, and it’ll stay that way without a fix.

baldsh.3896:

The only people it hurts are those who like to play the trading house to earn their money, for the rest of the player base it’s great to find affordable equipment. People who play the market game tend to jack the prices of items for no reason either than lining their own pockets, which is fine, it’s all part of the game. If you are a trader and truly want to play the market, buy the cheap items and re-sell them as so many people do, sure it’s not all that great for the economy and you have to tie up your own gold in investments, but that’s the way it should be.

In the end it really doesn’t matter, you only see it as a loss because you could have made the extra two coppers, the person selling it got it for free, not counting “time is money”, so they are making a profit, just not as large of one as they could.

I am not saying this is you, but I have read this same post often enough and I have no sympathy for those who play the markets, they are a large part of inflation and the longer they are held back by large influxes of cheap equipment the better.

Where market exists, there will be market players.
Inability to change(lower) price for sell order, for a fixed fee, makes crafting useless for profit. Playing tp way more profitable.