Guild Wars 2

Revenant.2691:

Yep, goods listed at the same price follow a LIFO approach. If you’re the first to post at that price, pray your order sells out before someone else jumps on. Had this exact thing happen to me. Also seems to affect buy orders the same way. I put an order up for 250 of an item at 1c over the top buyer, had 30 sold to me, then someone else put up another 250 order at my price and I didn’t see any more until his entire order had been filled.

At least you can remove and relist buy order without losing money

The purpose of setting prices that move with supply and demand automatically, is to remove the ability to manipulate or exploit the market. Custom bidding as a result would be removed, but I propose this regardless.

Welcome to black market then.
That is not a solution to anything, just people stop using TP.

What? You KNOW? Prove it. And this isn’t a monopoly because they do not control the resources or the means to purchase the goods and they cannot artificially inflate the price for very long, whomever “they” is.

Exactly. It is just impossible to control prices for all materials involved in crafting. Some – maybe, but not for long. And that needs a lot of gold.
Because gathering accessible to everyone.

My friend just mentioned a very good point about the posting fee. If there is no posting fee, the TP will become a giant bank.

The reason for that is the ability to post from anywhere. So it is already for some, bank cell, which you pay for.

trading is a zero sum game. If there are only a demand for 100 of the item, and there are a supply of 200 of it, only 100 will sell. If you have the time to log in, find you’re being undercut, then lower your price for free, then others can do it too. It will drive the price to the lowest reservation price faster…buyer actually benefits from that, not seller.

Assuming that everyone have more time than everyone else, sure
I’m not saying that sell queue to your item will be removed, just shortened. So, in some places of market, where you can get actual profit by crafting – that will remove disadvantage between crafters and speculants.
It won’t help most of the market, where is no demand, in any way.

Findecano.8124:

Ah, figures EVE would have the first of its kind. Knowing how EVE operates, it would not surprise me if its crafting was more complex. I do agree that the addition of buy orders (modeled off of EVE) was a great step in the right direction, but the crafting system is not built to match such a massive system.

I’m beating a dead horse now, though.

There is many skills for crafting(and gathering|processing) in EvE, and they reduce cost of item production.
And i also don’t think, that this kind of market works for themepark in the long run.

Revenant.2691:

The reason the economy’s getting screwed up is gold inflation and oversupply. Basically, a lot more gold is coming into the economy through DEs, vendor sales, personal story, map exploration, etc. than is being removed by things like fast travel, repair fees, sales tax, and vendor purchases. Thus, gold is devalued. In addition to this, items are also oversupplied because in general, eveyone’s going to loot a LOT more Tiny Fangs/etc. than they will ever use for crafting, so the market gets saturated with these items at near-minimum price.

Placing buy orders and reselling for profit doesn’t add any gold to the economy, only takes it from the person buying from the reposted sell order and giving it to the person who posted it. In fact, since each of these transactions is subject to the 15% sales tax, this behavior actually REMOVES gold from the economy and helps control inflation. The real issue needing to be addressed is market saturation.

There is no inflation atm.
Oversupply as a result of drop structure.

Why has the economy utterly crashed? Why are pretty much all items except complicated to make high level stuff or the few rare dropping things selling for as low as they possibly can and its just as good to vendor stacks of things you farm?

Plain and simple, its because gold farmers. Just like most other MMOs, they’re going to eat Arenanet’s lunch if they don’t get off theirkittenand do something.

You’re completely wrong.

What op proposes won’t change my game, and it won’t change how the market works. If you learn how to trade, you’ll be able to make a profit in any environment. If you refuse to learn how to trade and wants the system to protect you, you’ll still never learn how to trade in that environment. Even if the environment is as op proposes, you still do not know how to make your goods sell, and the better trader will still always be better than you and accumulate more wealth than you…and they will still have more control of the economy than you do.

Actually, ability to lower price for a sell order, will shorten sell queue for your item, thus increasing probability to sell, and time to sell. Because you’re playing against humans.
Of course, experienced trader always have an advantage. But no one will spend all his time on a game. Actually profit|spent time ratio, i think, likely definition for a serious trader, not constant price change on a single order. Yeah, that’s different strategy.

All these arguments stems from players getting punished or losing money for their own mistakes. Tell me, how is that bad? Isn’t that how we learn? All these positive reinforcement BS and participation medal had succeeded in making everyone feel good…but in a real sense did you actually accomplished/learn anything significant? All it succeeded is shaping a generation that cannot take responsibility from their own failure and learn from it.

That’s not true.

But some items that aren’t crafting materials the supply doesn’t exceed the demand and even if you are undercut yours eventually sells.

Don’t forget, demand for items like weapons and armor is diminishing, unless there is a constant increase in player base.

I’m mostly not sitting on anything. And today drop also, on lower tier materials.

The best way to make money that I have found is not to spend it. In our guild we collect and salvage for each other. We try to buy and sell as little as possible. When the entire guild collects for the the guild we don’t often run out. Just my take on it.

So, you’re not crafting?

You do realise the argument we are having is based off whether or not you would be worst off (with the ability to relist for free) if you played less, as you quoted me? That in itself is already indisputable.

You know that for trade you need 2 players, not one? Sell rate depends on overall state of the market, not on time spent trading. There is connection of course, but it’s derived from supply/demand, and from all-servers market; not from spent time.
Of course, in any mmo(really not, spent time won’t help you in any way in EvE), those who spend more time, have some benefits, for expense of rl. But that’s not the case.
You’re basically telling, that there is no way to beat, on market, player that have more free time, if there is possible to lower price for free(or small fixed fee). How it’s different from now? In current state, your assumption for there is no way to beat that kind of player leads to same(even worse) result.
So i wonder, where did i got my gold? In your obviously false assumption, I could not get that.
More funny is your assumption that everyone have more time than me. And everytime, any given time, i’ll be 1c undercut by same amount of people as now.

As for sell queue – with ability to change(lower) price it is obviously became shorter.

And i have example of what i’m talking about – EvE online. Have you any, or just trolling?

The argument I made as a example is as bias as your argument.

That’s not argument at all, that’s demagogy. Reductio ad absurdum.

Regarding being a serious trader, I doubt many people aren’t rebuying and relisting. Not sure where your problem with that is?

Yeah, tell me how trader will waste his precious time on checking tens(or hundreds) of orders for every 5 minutes. To change price. In a game.

zaerk.2305:

It’s common sense that the person with more time is going to be first in line. If you are going to go off best case scenario then yes you are right but that is based off luck. I suggest you clarify your position.

Off topic: It quite childish to reply in that manner. IF you are going to argue a point atleast be constructive, otherwise you just make a fool out of yourself. No disrespect.

You’re made assumption that everyone on the market sits there 24/7, and that everyone will still undercut me by 1c, and that sell queue won’t change. Because obviously everyone else have much more time than me.
That is reductio ad absurdum, and plain lie. That is no way for a normal discussion.

And, with ability to change(lower) sell order, sell queue became shorter. Or won’t change, for spherical horse in vacuum theories, that have no connection to reality.
That is obvious.

P.S. As for your definition for a “serious trader”, it’s just laughable.

No where do I say remove the 5% listing fee – something which is essential to the TP in my opinion. All im suggesting is allowing people to only lower the price of listed items – never increase btw because you can abuse the charge of listing low then resetting price to higher.

I would like to add, timer to change(lower) price, like 10 minutes(or more) on order is also needed.

zaerk.2305:

I am pretty sure there are people doing just that.

So, as I said, you just don’t know what are you talking about.
Reductio ad absurdum won’t work, don’t even try

In regards to Maxster, you do know that is a best case scenario you are making. It doesn’t take 10 people doing it, it just takes one person to undercut you all day. Any serious trader is obviously rebuying and reselling. If it was me and I had the time to sit on the trader all day, you wouldn’t be able to beat me unless you did the same.

Then i’ll beat you when you die from exhaustion.
Actually, you just don’t know what you’re talking about. No one is going to sit all day on the market checking everyone of 200-300 positions for every 5 minutes. Talking about a serious trader

Your random blues and greens aren’t worth anything. They will likely never be worth anything. 1 cp undercutting doesn’t kill the market for items with a healthy demand and supply. It kills the market for things with a huge supply and little demand.

It has no direct effect on market at all. Just puts crafters in disadvantage(in comparison to speculants), which will have some indirect effect in the future.

Dishconnected.8360:

Maxster.4521:

zaerk.2305:

If you remove the 5% posting fee then people with more time can just continually 1c you, making it far worst trying to sell anything.

Also yes it should be first in, first out. I don’t know how aNet could make such a mistake.

That’s not true.
And for lowering price for free(or small fixed fee).
Let’s say, that you’ve been undercuuted by 1c by 10 people. That means that you sell item 10th in order.
If you’re could lower price without losing 5%, you undercut them all by 1c. Then some of them undercuts you. But you sell item not 10th in order, but 5th.
Not everyone sits on tp all the time, actually that’s an exception.
So, probability of selling item in set amount of time goes up.

That’s what [he] said. :P

No, he said opposite.

Market is dying. LOL. I’m surprised you didn’t say “F2P in one month!”

:D
Especially funny when it is from the beginning.

The market will eventually stabilize and there may or may not be opportunities for profit in crafting. Ultimately the profitability is going to be determined by Anet’s development solutions and what they intend for it but as it stands it’s a buyer’s market so all you CAN do is wait or move into a different segment.

C. O.
Of course, if anything will not be changed, it’s easy to predict that market state in context of crafting will remain the same, or worse. And, if crafting made that way by design decision, there will be no changes.
Actually, i already moved from crafting, when i analyzed that situation. And that was fast I go where money lies

As for “game dying” and other such things – i do not feel that way. Yes, they screwed the launch, and got mired in technical problems(for tp), but that will be solved. There is many great things in GW2, like Dynamic Events, which, i think, need to became standart for any mmo. And what i like most, there is no crap like “gear progression”, especially for pvp.

Dishconnected.8360:

Maxster.4521:

Dishconnected.8360:

Maxster.4521:

Dishconnected.8360:

As i said, markets in MMO is a model. And, as a model, they should contribute to a game elements, not to a real world theories. These are completely artificial markets, and in game.
5% listing tax, in a ideal model, affects no one. As is 10% sale tax. Speculants and crafters gets slightly less profits, but profits nonetheless. Buy and sell orders just adjusts to that 15% margin.
But, with inability to change sell order without a great loss of a profit, hurts crafters, and does nothing to speculants, so they get an advantage. Why? Because speculants have a lot more purchase power(and ways to increase purchase power) than crafters, for obvious reasons. While crafter sits with his money on tp, unable to sell, and unable to change order without losing already small profit; speculant can just work with another 10-15 positions.

Maxster, the game just came out and there is incredible competition to sell crafted goods.

Tell me again why you expected to profit from that?

And it will stay that way. And not because of competition, but because there is almost no demand for blue and green items. Competion != selling item for a price lower, than components, from which item is crafted.
There is no adequate reason, why crafting designed to be a money sink, when there is another, a lot more profitable way, like TP speculations.

Pray tell, in what MMO have you been able to profit always from lower-tier items that are of limited use while leveling?

I’ll give you a hint – it probably involved tiered PvP and twinking. :P

EvE
SWTOR, bekittenthat thing.

Wait one month and come back to the thread then. :o)

You’re implying that GW2 is dying, or that market will stabilize and crafting became profitable? or what?

Dishconnected.8360:

KwwB.3895:

Wazabi.1439:

Jealousy and failure to admit that you are bad at something are quite often the hidden motivation that drives any cries for changes.

Now that I see this post from Wazabi I’ve classified him as a troll. He is trolling my thread that has somewhat to do with this as well.

Remember people. Wazabi = Troll

He’s half-correct.

He probably meant envy but the emotional factors remain the same for why people whine on the forums:

1. They want what other people have and they want it now so they post trying to change the system because
2. They aren’t successful making money and in their frustration don’t realize they need to adapt to the system [learn, improve, get better, not suck at trading] and not vice versa.

He’s right only partially. Me, for example – i already have my share of profits, i just don’t get why crafting made this way. If I’d only playing market, i’d even not care about inability to change price without losing 5%, as it barely has any direct effect on speculations.

Dishconnected.8360:

Maxster.4521:

Dishconnected.8360:

As i said, markets in MMO is a model. And, as a model, they should contribute to a game elements, not to a real world theories. These are completely artificial markets, and in game.
5% listing tax, in a ideal model, affects no one. As is 10% sale tax. Speculants and crafters gets slightly less profits, but profits nonetheless. Buy and sell orders just adjusts to that 15% margin.
But, with inability to change sell order without a great loss of a profit, hurts crafters, and does nothing to speculants, so they get an advantage. Why? Because speculants have a lot more purchase power(and ways to increase purchase power) than crafters, for obvious reasons. While crafter sits with his money on tp, unable to sell, and unable to change order without losing already small profit; speculant can just work with another 10-15 positions.

Maxster, the game just came out and there is incredible competition to sell crafted goods.

Tell me again why you expected to profit from that?

And it will stay that way. And not because of competition, but because there is almost no demand for blue and green items. Competion != selling item for a price lower, than components, from which item is crafted.
There is no adequate reason, why crafting designed to be a money sink, when there is another, a lot more profitable way, like TP speculations.

Pray tell, in what MMO have you been able to profit always from lower-tier items that are of limited use while leveling?

I’ll give you a hint – it probably involved tiered PvP and twinking. :P

EvE
SWTOR, bekittenthat thing.

As an undercutter I am catering to the people looking to buy, I sell my item first with the knowledge that no one listing before me can do anything about it without loosing cash to do so and I do this by 1copper which is really good value for money lol.

1c undercutting have no effect on buyer for costly items. For someting like iron when you playing market – you do not undercut at all

zaerk.2305:

If you remove the 5% posting fee then people with more time can just continually 1c you, making it far worst trying to sell anything.

Also yes it should be first in, first out. I don’t know how aNet could make such a mistake.

That’s not true.
And for lowering price for free(or small fixed fee).
Let’s say, that you’ve been undercuuted by 1c by 10 people. That means that you sell item 10th in order.
If you’re could lower price without losing 5%, you undercut them all by 1c. Then some of them undercuts you. But you sell item not 10th in order, but 5th.
Not everyone sits on tp all the time, actually that’s an exception.
So, probability of selling item in set amount of time goes up.

Example: the trinket market. At the moment the profit (sell value minus the average cost of the ingredients) is so narrow that if you happen to have to change the price of your goods ONCE then you are already losing money. Still, idiots are 1c-undercutting all the time and AS A RESULT of that other idiots 1c-undercut them over and over. As a result the smart*** that undercut now has to reprice his/her item or he won’t make a sale at all, but by losing 5% on it the profit is gone. And that is if he/she has to reprice it only once. Don’t get me started about having to reprice it twice or more.
To recap: profit in the trinket market at the moment is about 15-25 silver a piece. REPRICING is about 12-13 silver each time. See the problem?

Actually, 1c undercutting works. If you are lucky of course; you can ever make new items from money from that sale, and undercut(1c) again.

And yes, once again, the problem is NOT the 1c cutting. It is the 5% to reprice stuff. Competition would be really fun and healthier without that anticipated 5%. But since we have it, everyone should rush less and think more.

More funny in this case, those who undercut much more than 1c. To the point of completely losing profit.
And some who thinks that gathered by themselves resources cost nothing

Wazabi.1439:

@max
Well…I think that may be the intention of dev, for money to be made from TP, thus encouraging more TP activity? I think it’s obvious that crafting is all about legendary…

I just don’t know, how this kind of market is supposed to be compatible with themepark mmo at all. With diminishing demand almost for everything.
As for crafting, they could made it profitable. Reduced drops for blue-green items, more models per tier, and such.
Maybe they think that market play is less accessible for most players, than crafting?

You spent 0 to get jeweler to 400?

Have you heard of opportunity cost? You could have sold the mats on the TP for more than the crafted result, so you infact would have lost money. Unless you somehow managed to get more for your crafts than the mats would have costed to sell you made a loss.

“I gathered it so its free” is an inherently wrong philosophy and you should stop encouraging others to follow it.

I like this human. He understands!

where the point is to hit 80 , farm , sell, farm, sell , farm sell, get gold, level your proffs, make gear

Really?
I think, you’re just pick wrong kind of game. 10 minutes of reading information about this game, long before launch – would tell you the same.

Dishconnected.8360:

As i said, markets in MMO is a model. And, as a model, they should contribute to a game elements, not to a real world theories. These are completely artificial markets, and in game.
5% listing tax, in a ideal model, affects no one. As is 10% sale tax. Speculants and crafters gets slightly less profits, but profits nonetheless. Buy and sell orders just adjusts to that 15% margin.
But, with inability to change sell order without a great loss of a profit, hurts crafters, and does nothing to speculants, so they get an advantage. Why? Because speculants have a lot more purchase power(and ways to increase purchase power) than crafters, for obvious reasons. While crafter sits with his money on tp, unable to sell, and unable to change order without losing already small profit; speculant can just work with another 10-15 positions.

Maxster, the game just came out and there is incredible competition to sell crafted goods.

Tell me again why you expected to profit from that?

And it will stay that way. And not because of competition, but because there is almost no demand for blue and green items. Competion != selling item for a price lower, than components, from which item is crafted.
There is no adequate reason, why crafting designed to be a money sink, when there is another, a lot more profitable way, like TP speculations.

There is a certain areas, that are profitable, for now. But overall, crafting is a big money sink.

RoRo.8270:

I never understood why anet exclusively uses twitter/facebook and doesn’t post anything on the forums

Well, at least not like Bioware, with twitter plot updates

Wazabi.1439:

Max
Glad we can find something to agree on. This game does not favor crafter…in fact dev never intended for crafter to make big money…it is by design. Even if undercutting does not exist, the drop rate and ease of maxing crafting reduces crafted good’s demand.

And that’s why I’ve started speculating buy|sell orders on TP, instead of crafting.
And that’s really strange, btw. Why would you like to destroy crafting, for a reason to “less generation of gold by players”, when you can easily speculate buy|sell orders for a LOT more profits?
I just don’t get it.

As for not able to change price, yes, it makes seller less flexible. Just means you have to put more thoughts into pricing your goods…and harder to speculate.

Harder? Maybe. Less profitable? Absolutely not.

You might need to note the biggest difference between eve and this: logistics. This difference changes the way market behaves as well.

Actually, Jita system market in EvE(central trade hub for all game) is very much alike GW2 TP.

In all, i take it as a game with different rule…no big deal.

Well, I’ll always have my own share of profits, just by different means. I just don’t get, why crafters need punishment

whiran.1473:

Maxter, you seem to be stuck on ‘real life’ companies not having to pay a 5% relisting fee.

Take a moment and think about the expense that goes into sales and marketing. There is, indeed, a fee associated with lowering one’s price when it comes to any product. This cost is the price of new signage (with the new price listed), the cost of personnel who have to update the prices, and even, potentially, remaking an entire ad campaign with a new listed price.

But, at the end of the day, the comparison of real world to game world only ever goes so far. 5% is an annoyance this is true and should be viewed as ‘the cost of doing business.’

I’d probably be happier without the 5% list fee but I’m okay with it being there as a gold sink.

As i said, markets in MMO is a model. And, as a model, they should contribute to a game elements, not to a real world theories. These are completely artificial markets, and in game.
5% listing tax, in a ideal model, affects no one. As is 10% sale tax. Speculants and crafters gets slightly less profits, but profits nonetheless. Buy and sell orders just adjusts to that 15% margin.
But, with inability to change sell order without a great loss of a profit, hurts crafters, and does nothing to speculants, so they get an advantage. Why? Because speculants have a lot more purchase power(and ways to increase purchase power) than crafters, for obvious reasons. While crafter sits with his money on tp, unable to sell, and unable to change order without losing already small profit; speculant can just work with another 10-15 positions.

Wazabi.1439:

No, you’re right, this is not the real world…but people’s behaviour are similar. They prefer cheaper goods, and I don’t think you are going to deny that. As for the tp, even though it is not real, it does follow economic principle. Now, seems that you think under cutting is bad for the economy, and that the 5% listing fee is also bad. How?

Actually you get me wrong.
1. 1c undercutting is not bad for economy in general. It has no effect. What it is bad for – is for crafters. And together with only one armor(or weapon) set(gw2 is about models, not stats) per tier, + high rate of drop of blue and green items + eventually diminishing demand on any crafted items — it hurts crafters.
2. Problem is not with listing fee, problem is with inability to change sell orders price(lower), to lessen the exploiting sale mechanism of TP.

For example, EvE, with less restricted and less artificial market, – have 0.01 ISK undercutting and lot of it, but you can lower the price every 5 min for 100 ISK. Basic ship(frigate) cost 10000-100000 ISK, so that’s not much.

Neefken.5381:

How about down for a week, like we are used to ?

That would be fun, all my gold is in TP

Spectorx.9762:

I’ll go to a gas station that is 2 cents lower to get cheaper gas.. I don’t hear Exxon complaining that Texaco is 2 cents lower and getting more customers..

So, gas companies pay 5% tax to lower their price?

There is many factors in rl, that affects customer, and that’s not only cost. For example, i buy computer components in some specific company, and not going to another specific company with slightly lower prices, because in 1st company, process of returning|exchaning broken component is easy, and in second company – pain inkitten
MMO markets, like in EvE or GW2, – are models, abstract.
I’m fine with undercutting. Bu 1c undercutting is exploiting mechanism of TP to sell first, it has nothing to do with competition. Especially with 5% tax to lower your price. Ability to lower your price on sell order for free(or small fixed fee) will help.

The guild is supplying them mats and they can afford to take loses to hold a market. The money is always in the epic items and that market is already going to be hard to bust in to.

So, they are just rob guildies for mats, to sell items for less value than materials for those items, and call that a profit?

This is the absolute worst idea ever if you want to fix the economy. There are so much more better ideas in this forum.

That idea won’t fix economy at all.

What do you mean generated? There isn’t a set amount available, if I want some right now for Gold I can buy em, same for cash. They don’t lose money, but they lose potential sales because suddenly everyone has a ton of in game gold to buy with. That is why the game is designed around you being short on gold all the time. They don’t want to see the market inflate because it makes buying gems easier with gold and they want you to buy with cash.

In EvE, only way to plexes to enter the economy – someone buys a timecode, breaks into plexes in account management(60 day timecode=2 plexes, 1 plex=month of subscribtion), and then takes them to the hub to sell.
I don’t know how exactly gems are generated, but i can see serious price changes on currency exchange.

Exploits could cause HUGE real money costs for them what are you talking about? Remember gems don’t have to be purchased with real cash, you can buy for in game gold as well. If suddenly someone can make a million gold and transfer that into gems for himself or worse distribute that gold to a ton of others to turn into gems, their major source of income is destroyed.

That depends on how gems a generated. If they are generated like EvE plexes – there is no problem for company.

Wazabi.1439:

Elythor.6320:

People who complain about 1c undercutting must not have bought stocks/foreign currencies/bonds etc in real life. That is exactly how real world economics/finance work. Hyper-trading by large financial firms work at extremely small differences in prices.

If you have problem with 1c undercutting then you don’t understand economics nor human behaviour.

People who complain about 1c undercutting must not had sold anything in a competitive environment before…but definately had bought many under the same environment and you won’t hear them complain.

Fail example is fail. For a 5g-50s item, that difference is non-existant, and not benefit buyer in any way.

I ask this: “How many people had tried to hunt for a lower price for something that they wanted to buy?” Did you complain about undercutting? No because it doesn’t matter to you…undercutting benefits you at that time.

Now in an MMO, it’s probably the first time you are actually selling something under a competitive environment…you failed to compete…and you blame the system that you had been “benefiting” all these time?

Problem is not undercutting itself, it’s 5% tax for lower price.

Take this as an indication that you do not know how to trade and brush up on it. This is also why so many small businesses fails in the real world.

That’s an indication of hypocrite.
1st, game is not a real world, it’s market is artificial. You can get anything in any part of the world, where is a TP agent, and you can sell anything from anywhere. And there is strange restriction for change price on the sell orders, while no restriction on the buy orders.
2nd, how many companies in real world, pay 5% tax for changing price on their own products?

Acharyn, Clearly you have never been a software developer. I have written enough code and debugged enough customer code to know that when you have 100k+ lines of code (and I would be willing to bet that the TP and Gem Store are 5-10k lines of code alone… without libraries.)

You don’t debug third party libraries… Mostly XD
While i’d prefer more details on status of TP, and estimated time to fix – I don’t expect that to be repaired immediately. I just hope, that with time, there’ll be less and shorter such periods.
Maybe that’s because of the size of TP.

AllAmerDB.2840:

I wish alot of people would learn more about economics and competitive strategies when buying/selling. Do these same people complain in real life at prices?

So, how many companies charged 5% for changing price on their product? Fail comparison is fail.

Won’t help(maybe in some small corners of the market), but overall picture remains the same.

Rage The Numbers.7943:

TP is the same as ebay. Undercutting by 1c is part of the process.

If there was an easy and convenient way to reundercut without withdrawing the item, (for a penalty or not), and re-listing the item, that would sound more reasonable.

Changing sell order(lower price only), for a small fixed fee would do that.
Problem is not undercutting itself, it’s 5% fee to change price(remove and relist).

Wazabi.1439:

Jealousy and failure to admit that you are bad at something are quite often the hidden motivation that drives any cries for changes.

1c undercutting sale is based on pure luck, especially at low sell rate. It has nothing to do with skill.

Yes, I’ve put in a ticket in.

Well, let’s hope they correct both of these issues fast.

Ksaweri.7513:

Yes, before it would come up “Error attempting to sell” after I listed say, 10 items and I would have to wait 5-10 minutes-ish before the system would let you list anymore. I assume again, thats an anti-botting measure. This is what it does for everyone.

Actually i think not. At least for me, it just occures rarely. Very rarely.
That’s technical problem, i’m sure.

I get this message now all the time now, and also cannot send mail. I assume the system thinks I’m a bot or why would it ban the mail as well? Because it would want me to stop sending my gold anywhere else.

You tried asking support?

Crafting exists so players can craft gear and farm mats if they dont want to pay the TP price. If enough people do this instead of buying from the TP, the basic law of supply and demand takes over.

There is no difference between using time to collect materials, or using time to get gold other way and buy from TP. Actually, finding a good way to get money could be much better(in context of lost time) than grinding for materials. Unless you like grinding, of course.