Guild Wars 2

Dawdler.8521:

Naithe.4271:

Dawdler.8521:

Sviel.7493:

Dawdler.8521:

Yes, I already mentioned the eastern path (ie spawn to south camp).

Also you can most definetly hit fire bay without going anywhere near either sentry.

The only way to avoid the sentries is to go over the top and then down the staircase to the middle of the keep. If you do that, you can be seen from the tower.

What? You cant be seen beyond the camp from the tower, that’s ridiculous. You also have a second path to go north across the desert and attack from north bay (sentry there wont see you).

If you want to see just how ridiculous the desert border tower and keep placement is compared to alpine, I have included a picture (the “walls” are obviously hastily done). On the left the alpine plane is just moved down to show the desert plane.

First off the new sentries are FANTASTIC. Whoever put that in, should get a reward. That being said, they are easily countered by sending 2 people ahead and clearing them. And, as has been noted by others here, then the tower placement becomes important, which currently, it isn’t effective for strategic vision of the theater of the battleground. This is true especially in the south.

That wasnt the point. How did this argument even get into the functionality of sentries? The point was that scouts (as in players) cant see troop movements from towers because the terrain either hide them or the next objective (be it camp or keep) is waaaaaaaay off in the distance. And even if there are sentries here and there, its easy to bypass them (afaik there is only one on the map that you cant easily go around if we assume you dont want to spent 10 minutes bashing your condi build against a barricade). There are plenty of paths because the map is huge.

Fair enough, yes the towers are not strategic from a player point of view. 100% agree.

Dawdler.8521:

Sviel.7493:

Dawdler.8521:

Yes, I already mentioned the eastern path (ie spawn to south camp).

Also you can most definetly hit fire bay without going anywhere near either sentry.

The only way to avoid the sentries is to go over the top and then down the staircase to the middle of the keep. If you do that, you can be seen from the tower.

What? You cant be seen beyond the camp from the tower, that’s ridiculous. You also have a second path to go north across the desert and attack from north bay (sentry there wont see you).

If you want to see just how ridiculous the desert border tower and keep placement is compared to alpine, I have included a picture (the “walls” are obviously hastily done). On the left the alpine plane is just moved down to show the desert plane.

First off the new sentries are FANTASTIC. Whoever put that in, should get a reward. That being said, they are easily countered by sending 2 people ahead and clearing them. And, as has been noted by others here, then the tower placement becomes important, which currently, it isn’t effective for strategic vision of the theater of the battleground. This is true especially in the south.

Chaba.5410:

Naithe.4271:

- I agree 100% that yaks are easy to snipe, guess what, no one is sniping them because, well see above on small groups. People aren’t showing up.,

But he said the yak sniping is what they’re doing in T3. There’s still players playing for PPT like that. You may not be finding them so much in T1. The word was out for months now that T1 has the best roaming. Do you think roamers that transferred to T1 for that are looking to snipe yaks?

Roamers and sniping yaks do not go together. I’m thinking more small havoc teams. Maybe it’s just that TC isn’t in tier 1 anymore and so all havocs are dead.

That being said, even with BG’s havoc teams, and we have several really good ones, we don’t see Yak sniping. I think the mind set just turns into “Well it’s going to get to tier 3 either way, so what’s the point.” Auto upgrades are fine, making them not require yaks isn’t, at least in my opinion.

Also rewards for all of this, but like the class balance discussion, is for another post.

Respectfully, no where in my post did I say that keep lords were difficult or that big zergs should kill them quicker. I did say that it should be quicker for small groups. Yes, I know how a break bar works. We always shred the break bar, small or big group. Please read my credentials.

Caliburn:

- There are options for chokes, always have been. We’ve won choke fights, just saying there should be more balance on the map. Turtle banner is an option, we just feel that overall the banners are up there with 1000 supply drops on SMC and air ships: complete cheese.

- Great point on offensive upgrades, would be a nice balance.

- Again I’m aware that small groups kill lords faster then big groups, I’m recommending it be sped up even more.

- Oasis event lag should be fixed, BUT I think if fixed and kept, it should do more damage to doors or flat % damage regardless of upgrades. Make it worth it. As it is now, if Server A’s home border land is fully owned by Server A and Server A has presence on the map, even if server B gets the event won, it will barely scratch fortification. Also, you obviously split up in the event but it’s easier to split with 40 then 7!

- For overall balance, gosh that’s another post. It’s just out of hand. I’m just saying that we’ve literally logged out or left maps because we’re just like “Well, this is boring, we’ve stared at each other for 5-10 minute increments at a time, boooorrrrinnnnggggggg”.

- They can shrink the map, I believe.

On the note of strategic structures, some people here get it, some do not. Try to assault a fully fortified, fully guild upgraded air keep with a ton of siege and equal numbers. They ALWAYS have the high ground, you’ll never get in. Like ever.

Appreciate all the thoughts.

Appreciate all the comments, a few things:

- Never said the lord was hard, I’m saying it’s not FAST with a few people and it should be. The mechanics can be unforgiving, but for small groups speed is everything (before you get caught).

- I agree 100% that yaks are easy to snipe, guess what, no one is sniping them because, well see above on small groups. People aren’t showing up.,

Robot, thanks for the post. I’m not saying that chokes shouldn’t exist, they definitely should. I’m just saying that more open field areas should exist on the map, more balance if you will. That being said, they just seem to be everywhere except down in the south and some of the higher elevation areas. Usually places you do not spend a lot of time at. Keeps are generally more tight too.

For keep lords, I think that the high end life bar for large groups is tough but helps the defenders. The problem is that smaller attacking groups should be able to burn down the lords quickly to promote sneak attacks that get results.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Aquachills.9013:

I have been a long time player and WvW commander. I used to play at least 7 hours a day and now I only play about a few hours a week. WvW was all I had and now that the game has taken a turn for the worse I just don’t see myself playing as much as I used to.

+1 Naithe knows what he’s talking about.

Thanks Aqua, appreciate the support. Let’s push a choke sometime together.

Thanks for the post Spurn, I definitely have room to improve, though I disagree that I am timid Go ask my guild mates, we push a lot and we die a lot. We also run scrapper/reapers. Not sure why you’re attacking me here and being accusatory.

That being said, I never said chokes were an issue from a “they should never exist and let’s scrutinize other people over it”. I said it promotes pirate-shipping. For small groups in particular, too many chokes limits options for escape. Pirate shipping was happening before, this just promotes it. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

In short, no. Read here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/The-Plight-of-Dedicated-WvWvW-Guilds/first#post5856314

On this note: “It seems people can’t handle adapting to the superior play-style of fighting over a 3rd of each map and pushing objectives near your 3rd of the zone.
If for example you are on blue team and goto the Red Desert Borderland, you should capture and maintain the keep and tower nearest spawn then work toward the next closest towers ei/ther pushing into the bottom green corner or pushing into the top red section.”

This is exactly how the Alpine maps work and how all dedicated guilds played the map. This is how we currently play the new map. We’re not enjoying it.

Diku.2546:

@Naithe

+1 You got my approval hands down.

---

ANet also still needs to fix the broken Base Map Mechanic imho, but the points you’ve made are totally true in my book.

Thanks Diku <3

MadBomber.3719:

T1 NA is pretty active. Fights on the desert bls every night because EB is always queued. There’s at least 10 guilds that run 20+ providing fights. I dont know how it is during off hours but during prime NA, we havent had trouble finding a fight.

Last night it was the JQ Blob and EBG. That’s it. Not sure if that’s finding a fight when you have 19 on you.

Stand The Wall.6987:

CoR anets anti zerging mechanic?

Yep, that’s why you see more and more cheese builds between Rev’s, DH’s and Condi builds (more PvP). If you make it overpowered, people will abuse it. Which results in what the OP said: Who has the most Rev’s wins.

That isn’t balance folks.

Oh HECK no this post is not going to get buried. PLEASE address.

I run a now semi (due to people leaving the game) large guild in tier 1. Signed, signed and signed again. Please nerf this ability. If you want everyone to play revenants, keep this as it is. If you want everyone else to quit playing, just go ahead and keep this as it is.

Running on JQ BL tonight. In massive fights, 25%-50% of my group would immediately disconnect. It was a two way fight between two large groups, about 50 a piece.

Thanks!

Unable to log in still, waited. A lot of people logged off probably still in my squad. Guess that’s the night for us.

If you are in a squad, guild chat is broken. You also can’t detag apparently or port. Awesome.

Apparently Anet just put out a post saying that if you disband your squad it will fix it.

Ahem. I. can. not. get. in. game. Therefore I can not drop my squad.

Can’t get back into game after recent patch, was tagged up on YB BL, receiving Network error “error” after I choose a character to log in with.

Thanks!

Listen,

THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT. As a WvWvW driver for 3 years, we have a serious issue. When using the princess doll form, you are UNABLE to throw hearts on people with commanders tags. THIS IS SERIOUS. Please FIX NOW.

Thank you.

-Finality

Thanks for all the comments, I think Anet wants to promote WvWvW in general, it would be great if we could get some commanders streaming on other servers too (JQ/TC/YB, etc.)! <3

TS wasn’t muted, some technical issue, sorry! Chat is always blocked and the mini map can always be seen.

We were definitely not the ones dead tonight

Bored in a queue? Here you go!

http://www.twitch.tv/finalitygw2

wyther.8372:

X T D.6458:

@ Whyter, people like you who constantly complain about anet not fixing stuff in wvw but yet when clear evidence is presented about something being exploited you act like oh its no big deal don’t worry about it, you really don’t see your own contradiction? Why not just go on one of the many threads about the eu hackers and say OH its no big deal guys its just one person on a small server….

Once again, it does not matter if it can be countered, and it does not matter whether or not the server doing it is out manned. Exploits are exploits and never should be allowed simple as that, if you cant understand that, well that’s your fault. I have seen an entire map blob standing there using spawn siege. Just because a server has more people it means its ok to use exploits against them? What kind of ridiculous and faulty argument is that? Why not try less emotion and more logic.

People like me prioritize things and look at it realistically. This “exploit” is the vast majority of the time a non issue for anyone except a bunch of MMO warriors/easy kill farmers who hate to lose or let their opponents have a chance. The thing is I don’t care about your evidence, it isn’t that I don’t see or recognize it, I just don’t care about it as the evidence is weaksauce in comparison to major things that really do need to get fixed for the betterment of the game. If they fix it great, however, I would rather ANET actually spend what little resources they allocate to these issues to things that really effect game play for a vast majority of people.

Further, I have no contradiction. You are contriving in your own mind a contradiction that isn’t there. Plus, when you keep inferring things not implied you don’t lend credence to your issue.

And quit referencing logic please in response to my posts. You have obviously not had a logic class or earned a degree in philosophy. Feel free to reference your opinions and thoughts, but if you can’t even grasp my written words and what I have actually said don’t judge to presume what I am thinking.

I won’t comment anymore because this whole topic is just the same 3 basic people who have written over the majority of posts. Add in my replies and those from one other and it is the vast majority of posts in the topic.

As far as Jayne and the others at least they are talking in a more distinct manner and objectively. I could much more easily hash things out with them. You just make kitten up about what other people THINK and try to apply logic to things you infer that aren’t implied.

As this is my final post here (I’ll let you get in the last word) I wish you all happy gaming and a wonderful week.

Total fair to feel that other issues warrant more focus. You’re right, there are many that do. That being said, if someone respectfully points out an exploit in here and gets their heads bitten off by people, no one is going to speak their mind. Which I thought was the whole point of the forums. Shooting down people in the way that has happened doesn’t motivate people to try or care to make the game better. A simple “This is an exploit, it should be fix sure, but other things I feel are more important, namely X, Y, Z.” might have been better.

Also, the server in question has won more matches then any other in NA almost 3 times over. It’s not exactly a bunch of “MMO warriors/easy kill farmers” fighting vs them. The fights are very fair numbers wise, it was on reset, not 3 hours in. Belittling the individuals bringing to bear an exploit is unnecessary.

Maybe contribute more constructively. Subject is moot anyways, Anet apparently feels this is ok to do. Good day.

Well show me screenshots, I haven’t seen it since about a year ago.

While I completely disagree with this stance as it seems to counter the general theme of Anet, it is what it is. This was brought to my attention about 10 minutes ago: https://twitter.com/shazbawt/status/616353918239399936

I guess it’s ok. Well, you won’t see us doing this. One guild member pointed out that the east side of borderlands had a spot like this and it was patched with more of the “no siege” buff. But who knows.

shagwell.1349:

Naithe.4271:

I’ll address each one of your arguments:
1. people should stop fighting each other when group 1 has 50+ people and group 2 has 20 people – This is not an exploit, your argument doesn’t make sense.

It’s not an exploit, it’s unfair numbers, that’s what I said. You still do it, right?

- No, unless I am attacking an enemy structure, I generally do not run over 20 man groups with 50. Honorade and all.

2. people should stop using eyefinity – Agreed, they should stop, it’s an exploit.

Do you tell this to everyone on your server too? Do you open threads telling everyone to stop with pictures of this or only if it’s in your own interest?

- Yes, I have in the past and I do call everyone out that uses eyefinity if I find out. I also call out hackers, even responded to a post on these forums about a week ago with a concerned person saying BG had a hacker. I asked for more info so I could track it down.

3. mesmers should not port people into the enemy citadel – For this one, sure, they shouldn’t but it doesn’t do anything to impact the weekly competition that I know of (your force is invulnerable in there), so again, I don’t get your argument.

It’s an exploit. Why do you have excuses for this?

- No excuses, I’d call them out to. Unfortunately it does not have any impact on the game. I’ve called out people in my guild like 2 years ago that did that and informed them they’d be kicked if they continued.

This is a video game, it’s like a sports game. People don’t want to play or watch when people cheat because it takes out fair competition.

And now back to fair play? See me first question about the 50v20. You want a sports game? Fair?

- 50v20 argument is within the boundaries of this game. Exploits are not.

Now you’re just being coy. We killed 10 trebs up there last night, and it wasn’t even our side of the map. You can’t supply drain up there, they are INVULNERABLE. Lord, have you even been on a server that has had to deal with this? The third server probably killed more. Also, we didn’t outnumber the enemy server, were you even there? It was equal numbers. We did beat them in almost every single engagement. With equal numbers, skill wins (thanks ND!).

Please continue bumping this post <3

You mean, you had total map control and could not supply drain them? That was my question. You don’t have to shoot cows into that spot with map control. Just destroy the treb, keep the camps.

- You can’t keep all the camps when they have equal numbers and small havocs, you can’t be everywhere.

And yep, I mainly use trebs and I know the spots.

- Points all considered, it’s still an exploit and we have the right to call it out. WHY are you arguing about someone calling out an exploit by attacking their character and trying to go down every single rabbit hole to discredit them? I will not be responding to any more of your posts if they are simply that.

Thanks for those so far that have been logically in responses.

Jayne.9251:

Thanks for the respectful reply

If you guys are stuck, shoot me a PM. I have a counter for just about everything.

Yah don’t get me wrong, we countered them all night last night with the tactics you mentioned. Those trebs were wiped 3-4 times by us, in the plateau, with dragon tooth when they were to close to the edge, from NWT, etc. We took NWT like 10 times. I get there are options, we’d still like to see this addressed and fixed. We owned the rest of the map. Not because there weren’t opponents, they were present, just couldn’t beat our force.

Thanks for the advice <3

Jayne.9251:

Naithe.4271:

Jayne.9251:

Lol. Take the tower, play mini wvw (defend the heck out of that tower), build a treb, nuke their siege in invulnerable spot, watch as they try to rebuild, nuke them down each time they try — rinse, repeat.

I’ll repeat myself: “If that tower (NW tower) is tier 3 and they have trebs up there far enough back, they can protect the tower gate and walls with those trebs. The only way to kill those trebs with any success is to own the tower. Here in lies the problem.”

You can build trebs in the plateau, but it is easily countered from garrison. It is also very hard to hit those trebs with your own treb. If you do build a treb on top of the lords room (assuming you get the tower) to counter their trebs, their trebs can fire back. Or they can build of course ballistas to the north. All to clear exploits. It’s a waste of siege and time from a strategic perspective.

This all assumes you take the tower, which if tier 3, they can rain down trebs shots on the north and south walls AND the gate (and supply cow as well).

Lastly, you can NOT just kill those trebs with an AC or something. Two reasons why: a. they have their own AC (there were 2 up there last night a ton of the time) and b. the trebs can be placed so far back you can’t even reach them with an AC (no joke).

Have you guys every even tried to counter this? ><

Yes dear. I guess our guys are able to fight them outside while we nuke the treb.

P.S. They have to actually come and get you if you put a cata under lords … or if you build a treb up on the plateau (how can they hit from garri there? I’m assuming plateau you mean north of NWT) … a treb placed far enough up that plateau has the LOS advantage. A treb from NWT cannot hit it, nor can the “exploit” treb, but you can hit the tower. Just have to be able to defend that treb, and if you are having issues defending while owning the tower, then I can see the problem. I guess we’re lucky on our server, our guys can fend off even 3v1 attacks most times.

You make fair points. For our situation, it’s tough to go north because you expose access to bay (assuming you are on the bay spawn side). Last night it was the hills side, so that’s even farther away. Behind the tower is an option, but then they can just sit in the tower and rain down death on you. Do it over and over again and you’re blowing siege and lives, it’s not-smart strategic wise. This is not 3v1. That is a whole different issue. This is our group equal theirs, and being tier 1, it’s a LOT of people.

Lastly, once you do break down the wall (and if it’s tier 3, it’s going to be a while), then you have to take the lords while you have 2-3 trebs raining down fire on you. It’s a lot of damage. I can understand people saying “Hey we feel x, y, z exploits are more important”, but saying this is just irrelevant or an intended tactic by Anet just doesn’t make sense (or again why have the no-siege buff up there at all?).

For Wyther, you’re 100% correct that there are other issues, this is just the one we’ve seen abused now for weeks, every day for months. You see a hacker every few months, someone obviously abusing LOS programs for ACS rarely now. This on the other hand has been every day. It also seems like an easy fix to us, re-code a bunch of that area with the no-siege buff, just like all of OS has.

For being WvWvW warriors, my guild runs 3 nights a week. Not exactly hardcore <3

We’ll keep pushing for change here. Thanks for all the feedback.

shagwell.1349:

Based on this, people should stop fighting each other when group 1 has 50+ people and group 2 has 20 people, people should stop using eyefinity, mesmers should not port people into the enemy citadel, yadda yadda. (happens all the time in wvw, every day on every server)

Nothing in wvw is fair. Not sure what the intention of the thread was, when you see that the server providing the screenshots outnumber the others at least 2:1 and isn’t capable of killing a piece of siege and supply drain them?

I’ll address each one of your arguments:
1. people should stop fighting each other when group 1 has 50+ people and group 2 has 20 people – This is not an exploit, your argument doesn’t make sense.
2. people should stop using eyefinity – Agreed, they should stop, it’s an exploit.
3. mesmers should not port people into the enemy citadel – For this one, sure, they shouldn’t but it doesn’t do anything to impact the weekly competition that I know of (your force is invulnerable in there), so again, I don’t get your argument.

This is a video game, it’s like a sports game. People don’t want to play or watch when people cheat because it takes out fair competition.

“Not sure what the intention of the thread was, when you see that the server providing the screenshots outnumber the others at least 2:1 and isn’t capable of killing a piece of siege and supply drain them?” – Now you’re just being coy. We killed 10 trebs up there last night, and it wasn’t even our side of the map. You can’t supply drain up there, they are INVULNERABLE. Lord, have you even been on a server that has had to deal with this? The third server probably killed more. Also, we didn’t outnumber the enemy server, were you even there? It was equal numbers. We did beat them in almost every single engagement. With equal numbers, skill wins (thanks ND!).

Please continue bumping this post <3

Jayne.9251:

Lol. Take the tower, play mini wvw (defend the heck out of that tower), build a treb, nuke their siege in invulnerable spot, watch as they try to rebuild, nuke them down each time they try — rinse, repeat.

I’ll repeat myself: “If that tower (NW tower) is tier 3 and they have trebs up there far enough back, they can protect the tower gate and walls with those trebs. The only way to kill those trebs with any success is to own the tower. Here in lies the problem.”

You can build trebs in the plateau, but it is easily countered from garrison. It is also very hard to hit those trebs with your own treb. If you do build a treb on top of the lords room (assuming you get the tower) to counter their trebs, their trebs can fire back. Or they can build of course ballistas to the north. All to clear exploits. It’s a waste of siege and time from a strategic perspective.

This all assumes you take the tower, which if tier 3, they can rain down trebs shots on the north and south walls AND the gate (and supply cow as well).

Lastly, you can NOT just kill those trebs with an AC or something. Two reasons why: a. they have their own AC (there were 2 up there last night a ton of the time) and b. the trebs can be placed so far back you can’t even reach them with an AC (no joke).

Have you guys every even tried to counter this? ><

From tonight: http://imgur.com/dMgizsA,uLqjMQk,vFouSjd,s00xzEd,FlcpsK9,MIqlU1x,DCfsHHc#6

Please fix, thanks!

Stuck in queue? Hopefully our stream will keep you a little entertained. Only honorable combat.

http://www.twitch.tv/finalitygw2

wyther.8372:

Still mostly a non issue, take the tower then wait and get your troll kills and move on; let the people getting destroyed on their OWN BL have a chance to regain something. Of all the places the ones in question are most used for trolling opponents and scoring easy kills.

Granted, I will say that is the easiest place to get fights, especially on tiers that have few people left. However, once the people come to fight and you can’t hang on just back out and get to another tower/keep/garrison and fight there.

If that tower (NW tower) is tier 3 and they have trebs up there far enough back, they can protect the tower gate and walls with those trebs. The only way to kill those trebs with any success is to own the tower. Here in lies the problem.

Also, look at the server we’re fighting, I’m pretty sure the argument of “Just let them have their tower, stop picking on them” or whatever, doesn’t really make sense here. Also, siegerazor.

Even if it did, an exploit is an exploit. If it was ok with Anet, I assume they’d make that area able to naturally be sieged up. If you’re going to argue the point, please be logical and respectful about it.

I’ll keep bringing this up and posting pictures, politely, until addressed.

More pictures from tonight: http://imgur.com/Kvy7u3t,Drz5B2R,Kcn6MZk

Please fix ASAP. Will continue to post until addressed <3

This bug is now an issue on EBG as well. See below. Please fix these exploits. I took several screens shots, enjoy the slide show!

http://imgur.com/5JUEUZd,h3e6U9T,kZbVvXV,uJi3Ggl,M8Ju6c3,2RmhItU

Seconded. This is IMPORTANT!

According to Anet, old and new borderlands will be rotated.

One more note, these current borderlands will be rotated out with the new ones according to Anet. So a fix would be long term.

This is Finality from GoF, been in tier 1 for almost 3 years. Lots of experience commanding and borderland control. There are some great suggestions here, 100% agree with the thoughts put forth.

Appreciate the feedback. Exploit is an exploit and should be fixed. If you moved out the unable to build siege buff farther, it wouldn’t hurt, it would help. I think you’re thinking the invulnerability buff, leave that where it’s at.

Trolling to troll isn’t necessary guys, it’s an exploit, it appears to be an easy fix, we’re asking it to be fixed. Maps will not be disappearing for a while. While we’re at it, let’s not fix anything until the expansion because #expansion. Nothing in PvE, PvP, WvWvW, nothing. >< Fail logic.

Could we get this fixed? Like yesterday? I’m sorry but it’s getting really old. Just cover that whole area in the no build siege buff. Really, really frustrating this can still be abused.

http://i.imgur.com/Vg5p0RJ.jpg

Posted on bug forums as well.

Could we get this fixed? Like yesterday? I’m sorry but it’s getting really old. Just cover that whole area in the no build siege buff. Really, really frustrating this can still be abused.

http://i.imgur.com/Vg5p0RJ.jpg

Posted on WvWvW forums as well.

As we do every week, GoF of BG will be streaming tier 1 reset. With all the beta players with us, it should be interesting! <3

http://www.twitch.tv/finalitygw2

If you’re bored, we’ll be streaming reset. No trolling stream, just fights and borderland control.

http://www.twitch.tv/finalitygw2

<3

Ok it’s working now <3

Title says it all, streaming! http://www.twitch.tv/finalitygw2

BG – GoF! http://www.twitch.tv/finalitygw2