Guild Wars 2

The fact is I tried to make a warrior “tanky”, and it didn’t worked well. If you manage to do that, I’m interested. And if you think i’m being “obdurate”, then explain more precisely what you’re doing. Are you tanking in the “old way” or more kiting, etc ? That was a question, but if you feel it like an offense …..

@Ragnar : Have you looked in the other classes bugs ?
Necro got major ones, and it’s normal they’re debugged first. But else, apart from Ranger and Ele that looks to have a bit more issues, there’s no game breaking bug as you’re saying. Please look into before saying such things.

I think the troll left, you can stop beating him to death.

Fast hands (and the one about stance, e.g.) are only cooldown or duration issue. Which means only programming issues about ONE related action (well, there’s different stances). There are game mechanics far more complicated, far more complex, that works (or have been fixed).
Compared to a engine issue (leap, etc), an animation issue, a server issue, it is very simple. And yet, trait non functioning are important. Maybe you don’t see them as important, but what if I would like to play with those traits (they’re not the only one) ?

Except Necro, I don’t see much class breaking bugs atm, please quote something maybe. (And I’m NOT talking about balance issue). I’m sorry but there’s no reason that there’s no bug fixing for the warrior.

About the major update, that won’t come in a while for any class, the game is still as it start.

And please don’t be contemptuous.

I agree with Plague, but the issue here is most about these bugs.
@ Fozee : The warrior class has bugs, maybe not as much as other classes, but we do have a lot. I’m not expecting balance that early in the game live, but bug fixing. And the fact is that we’re left behind in that domain. You can’t say otherwise.
I’m not talking about the charge/height issue, which looks complex and (I think) has more to do with the game’s motor, but about many more simple functioning stuff, like some traits, skills which are bugged.

@Sylosi : I agree on the fact that Necro is more broken, or that the level issue for charge is complex to fix.
But look at Fast Hands. It reduces the cooldown of the swap. That’s something very simple, yet broken since the release of the game. I doubt we are the class with the less bugs, and yet, we’re the one with 0 fix.

@Excretus : Exactly, and most of them are now fixed or being fixed. What about ours ? Nothing.

@Excretus : So you take all the hits from the boss/mobs for the whole duration of the fight ? I wanna see that.
What are you stats ? What runes, what sigil, etc ?

@ThunderStrom : Wrong thread.

@Cogbyrn
This isn’t a question to dealing with it. It’s just that there’s bugs about the warrior, and we’re not seeing anything about fixing, or balancing warrior (classes aren’t balanced yet, don’t tell me that).
And as we’re a melee class, our skills to get in range of hitting (leap, rush) are important. It would really help for them not to be broken.

What I mean by “tank” is the usual acceptation of the terms, which means, meatbag that takes hits instead of his teammates. If you really want to do that, go ahead. But you need mitigating, dodging, kiting, etc, which is what I mean.
Have you “tanked” a boss in a dungeon ?

@Saber : I didn’t even realize you were asking Recently, but asking what did that mean recently. That censorship is really good to make kitten happen.

I agree with Kolly. Nearly everything has been said, in a way or another. Now, it’s up to Anet to fix to WvW.

@Edelweiss : All runes have other stats on them. It’s irrelevant. The fact is that most (6) bonus are better than this regen.

Well, maybe you can’t go wrong, but it’s simply way lower than the other rune set abilities. Depends on build though.

@ Recently : That’s what we said. The more important if you wanna survive is toughness and dodging. You can’t tank the boss, you can kite it, you can mitigate damage, and you can heal for what he’s done to you. But not as much as people are saying, when they talk about tanking bosses or whatever.

Well, tank is unfeasible as a warrior, you need to be Guardian to tank, and even, I don’t think it’s possible as compared to other Mmos.
So, what you can do is damage or support. Lots of people are focusing on glass cannon, because they like big numbers, so my advice is doing support. I think it’s more useful and rewarding.

What’s your build ? What’s your weapon ? What’s your role ? What’s the point of Divinity ?

Kids aren’t even reading the skill description of the one they put their build on it, today.
You’re right Defektive.

As for the role of the warrior, it depends. It can be support oriented damage, support oriented defense, CC, glass cannon, lots of things. It may not be as effective as other classes, but remember we’re a meatbag with lots of hp and heavy armor.

@Edelweiss : 900hp ? That’s 90 vitality. Most runes bonus set will make you more than this low advantage.

@Plague : I agree on most points.

@Thrishmal : The healing shouts are a very poor healing. To them to be useful, you need at least some healing power. To this to be worth it, you need a group and a decent use of shouts, else, another stats would be more useful (in dps, or whatever). This has to be considered. For your build to be viable, do you give up too much in something else ?

@Lijona : The healing signet is simply worst. The only case it’s better is when you don’t use efficiently the other heals. As said, it’s casual friendly, but no point in it. Even if it’s entirely heal focused (no adren nor condition removal), it heals less.
AoE damage ? Mending or Healing Surge will take care of it.
Even tag teamed, you have time to use heal. Dodge, use it, it’s ok. Or block, or whatever. Even without it, it’s possible, you can move using it, etc.
You will use heal as soon as it matches your the health you lack. Then, you’ll always be at full potential for a healing spell.

And as adrenal, adrenal is part of some traits (Heightened Focus, and one in Strength I don’t remember the name). These traits rely on adrenaline level. And apart from axe, you can always run a build which you don’t need burst, except in very rare case.
Sword ? Flurry just to finish the enemy.
Mace ? Exceptional cc.
Greatsword ? You can have 100%crit without it, so not really useful.
Rifle ? More a finisher
I’m not saying you have to play without bursts, but it’s possible, and as efficient as a build that use bursts. So please stop including adrenaline level in other topics (not only you and not only this one).

@Velleman : Geomancy is a cool sigil, especially against Mesmer. But outside of that case, I don’t use it much. Your build (or way to play) looks fine, but a 100%crit works fine too. Don’t get wrong on people that make other builds which works too.

@ vurjin : Do you really know what you’re talking about ?
First, no, Dolyak does only 30hp/s. It’s worthless, most runes have a better effect than that. You can check it by yourself. And it’s not affected by healing power.
Healing Signet does ALWAYS 200hp/s at lvl 80, unless you have healing power, then it’s + 0.0325 per healing point, which is low. I don’t know where you get that 1% thing, but it’s wrong.
Adrenal Health, on the other hand, is worth it, especially if you run a build without bursts skills. If you have high crit, Sigil of Blood + Adrenal Health will bring you the most regen you can get without huge sacrifice.
You have to realize that a spec based on regen or tank doesn’t work because you’ll give up too much on other stuffs, like utilities, etc.
A build based on shouts works, on banners works, on everything works, except tank. Just give up, it’s currently impossible. Try Guardian for that.

@ Bato : I hope I could reproduce it

@Plague : Warriors is the generic class, but that doesn’t make it easy to play. This isn’t 1-2-3-4-5-swap-1-2-3-4-5. I would say that our main strength is in the build, because that really change your orientation and gameplay. Maybe most of our part is done here, but you have to play it right afterwards.
To me it’s a class than anybody can play at an average level. Bringing it to higher level is much harder and much rewarding.

Ah, you’re right. That just never happened to me, I seems to be very unlucky (except in my keys loot)

It has been stated that Rune of Dolyak isn’t effective. The regeneration it provides is only 30hp/s. Worthless.
Same for Healing Signet. If you consider brute healing, Healing Signet will heal for 200hp/s (passive), 166hp/s (active), or 199.02hp/s (active + faster recharge).
Mending is already more effective, at 224hp/s
Healing Cure is the best in terms of pure healing, because most of times it will be used at max rate : 200/230/288hp/s.

Adrenal Health is good, and you should consider (if you’re building on max crit), the sigil of blood.

@Monki : The skill “Vengeance” will get you on your foots for 15s before being defeated. There’s only one way to avoid it : having the trait Sweet Revenge AND killing a foe before 15s.

Signets aren’t simply worth it, even with faster recharge and +40 precision. You’re just giving up too much on utility skills, which can be way more useful. People tend to forget there’s utility skills other than signets.

Got to agree with the Op on this one. Tanking in PVE (which means dungeons) is infeasible for warrior, as for all classes. We don’t have neither tank nor heal, and even if I would have preferred them to still be there, it’s finally a minor change.
Healing is replaced by Support.
And Tank by Guardian (no seriously, they got the highest survivability, if anyone wants to tank in dungeon, even if it’s really hard, and without real sense, can try as guardian, but not warrior).

Although, that doesn’t apply on WvW

The fact is that servers are currently region based (there’s NA servers, EU servers, and also lots of countries servers (Ger, Fr, etc …). As the repartition of people speaking the same language over the world isn’t perfect, so is the one in this game. That leads to empty servers at night, making pve nearly impossible (try event to kill a champion alone) and wvw extremely valuable. There’s more time people of that particular time aren’t playing that time they are playing.
Maybe there should be a mix of servers. Like one EU with one US with one Asia get an alliance, against 2 other groups like them. The problem is that WvW would be even more crowded, but at least there wouldn’t be anymore night cap and better repartition.
In all case, WvW still needs improvements on that issue.

@choob : There is reward at WvW that consists in extra 8% of crafts, gatherings, etc, lots of stuff that isn’t big but helps a lot. Badly, when you’re on a server with few WvW, you don’t get that.

That would be useful, I want to imagine the chain auto attack of that weapon.
Burst skill : throw enemies in the sky

If only that could be implemented as true and not a bug.

If you like Vengeance that much, you should take Sweet Vengeance, that will rally you if you kill an enemy during Vengeance.
And I agree seeing downed enemy players get up cause of Vengeance is annoying.

Apos.5184:

@panh, first of all, skill is irrelevant to class balance. When talking about balance, a person should assume that both ends are at equal terms of playing ability.

And no, I don’t assume this game is about 1v1, that’s exactly the problem. That the rest of the classes have better utility when it comes to large fights as well as duels.

Where the hell did I say that skill was relevant ? Nowhere. Thanks. It should be, that all classes are balanced, and then only skill should matter. Badly, this isn’t the case (yet).

Then, if you don’t assume this game is about 1vs1, why are you talking about specific weakness of a class against a class ? There will never be a group of warriors against a group of mesmers ….
And about large group fights …. lots of people agree that warrior is good for that. Why ?
1) CC, they’ll let time to your dps (if you’re not glass cannon) to outpace the enemy dps.
2) Shouts, banners : group effect, no need to explain more.
3) Melee attack. What is the something important about melee attack in this game ? They can hit multiple enemies at a time. Just multiply your damage output against a ranged class (most of times, ofc, some got multiples shots too, but not on every attack like us). Very useful when the battle is a big mess (often).

Yeah, obviously, played 3 builds without any deep in it, you know the warrior. A build isn’t only the weapon you use. You know what’s a warhorn ? An off hand weapon ? An axe maybe ? And we’re not even talking about traits, utility skills, gear.
And Greatsword is used not because it’s good (it’s not very good), but because it’s easy, so everyone can use it. There’s ways to make more damage than it, or other things (shouts, banners, stances, cc).

Weakness of warriors against warrior ? As said, depends on the build. Each classes relies on a common basis, that you have to learn how to deal with it. But the weakness of a gs build isn’t the same as of a sword/war horn/shout.
Mesmers ? Just lock the good one, and use what your build gives you.
Aoe is good, because that’ll deplete his clones too.
If you got some bleeding stats, earth’s sigil can help a lot against Mesmer. Although, if you were a bit more specific on what mesmer it is. That’s something you learn in combat : “Hm, this one seems focused on those skills with those weapons, which means … etc.”

You seems to believe there’s ONE way to play a class, and ONE way to defeat it. And more weird, you seems to believe this game is mainly about 1vs1.

Edit : Ah, thieves, really easy. They’re invisible ? Continue auto attack, and they’ll suffer. Just block or dodge Heartseeker when low on health.

Stability prevents you from getting hit by some condition. It may not remove condition, but it prevents them. It also break stuns.
I’ve not tested every trait/skill I’ve quoted, but Warhorn + Quick Breathing is already very good against condition removal. Putting that with Last Stand/Shake it Off/Balanced Stance or/and Restorative Strength, and you’re mostly good.

And you don’t need a build that doesn’t use burst skill to use Healing Surge. Warrior has lots of hp. Most of times, you can wait a bit before using your heal skills. I find it very easy to get Burst Skill and Healing up at the same time.

@Recently : You can have enough condition removal without Mending.
The warriors has TONS of way to do it.
Shake it Off, Shrug it Off, Restorative Strength, Balanced Stance, Last Stand, Quick Breathing (this trait is magic : convert 1 condition into boon with warhorn), Dolyak Signet (not very useful, but still), Signet of Stamina (passive effect nearly useless), Battle Standard.
So, Mending’s the only option ? And Mending can’t nullify a class damage for the reason there’s a 25cd. If your enemy hasn’t put the condition back in a few sec, he’s really bad. If you want to remove condition all the way, you can’t take Mending alone.

And why should only gs don’t use their burst ? I’m not a fan of gs, because I found the group survivability and usefulness in WvW is lower than most other builds. But anyway, using burst or not is a choice : Adrenal Health, Heightened Focus, Berseker’s Power (even if not easy to get all these 3 traits together, Adrenal + Focus can already be a good reason not to spend burst skill unit low hp enemy). And no, it’s not signet + gs build …..

@ Apos
If you consider GS being the best warrior weapon, you’ve obviously not played warrior a lot, or (because i’m sure you’ll say “I’m 80, noob”), only this build/game style. If your warrior isn’t good, maybe it’s not the warrior class, but you …

And every class got weakness, it’s your job to learn them and use them. And it’s your job to prevent them from using yours. If you really think “warrior are not balanced, they’re weak”, please just go away and stop trolling.

@vurijin : That’s not really a good idea. Healing signet really heal less than the others heal, and isn’t worth it.
Also, the Dolyak bonus set is really bad, only 30hp/s. Just forget it.

Yeah, apparently, you already got lots of bleeding with your build, earth sigil seems unnecessary to me. A lifesteal (33% on crit) can be great.

Your build is a bit similar to Yojack’s one, you should take a look at his, and probably take some ideas.

Also, signets aren’t really good. It’s your choice, but then you’re glass cannon, and suffer of a lower survivability.

If equipped correctly, you can reach 100%crit (98% actually) even without it on sword, which will make a great deal of bleed, lifesteal, etc.

Also, Healing signet (200hp/s) heals less than Mending (224hp/s +2 condition removal), that heals less than Healing Cure (288hp/s on max adre, which is easily reachable).

Precision and condition damage are a must for bleed spec, of course. I think earth sigils are a bit redundant. If you got maximized (or a lot) crits, you can go for lifestealing instead, that would give you a better survivability.

But it would help if you could post your build, a big part of your char is in his traits.

Very interesting build, might take some parts of it.
Although, why not using Healing Cure if you’re searching heal over condition removal (Mending).
Healing Signet does 200hp/s (passive), 166hp/s (active + cooldown), 199,2 (active + disc signet trait + cooldown 16s).
As you are nearly always full adrenaline (adrenal health, disc crit trait), Healing Surge would make max heal, so 288hp/s.

About Mending, I got quite mixed feelings. The 2 condition removal are good, and the heal is average.

The fact is, let’s say someone is hitting me with bleed condition. The Mending will remove the whole stack. That will help, of course, and can be compared as a heal (non-damage). But 5-6s later, the bleed will be up again. I can’t really calculate the gain in terms of hp of that condition removal (need to take account of enemy’s condition damage, stack, skills, traits, etc), but I’m nearly sure that doesn’t outpace Healing Surge. At best, maybe it can equals it. That’s what I can say about Mending against poison, burning, bleeding and even against vulnerability.

Blind : one hit missed ? Except if it’s a very important skill, no use. And as I can see it, I won’t use an important skill. Nearly no use to remove it.

Fear : Can’t use Mending

Crippled and Chilled : the slow movement is a pain in the kitten for warrior, even if a lot of warriors have a ranged weapon to switch.

Immobilized : Very annoying, that’s a condition to remove (except when you can do the same, like Flurry)

Weakness : decrease your damage, and your dodge. That can be useful to remove.

Confusion : Not worth to remove, just play carefully.

If you look at condition that are worth to remove, there’s : immobilized, fear, crippled, chilled, maybe weakness. Restorative strength make for all of them (except fear).
Basically, removing the Dot you have is like extra health.
Shake it off is very useful, because you can use it anytime. The warrior just made everyone fleeing ? Shake it off, and everyone will be ok. Last Stand + Shake it Off + Restorative Strength and you’re as much immune to cc as you can be.

I would like to add : there’s lots of way to remove condition. Mending can be one, if you want to sacrifice a bit of healing. People saying that Mending is mandatory are just considering their own build and don’t look at others. I don’t say Mending is bad, just it’s not THE healing, as some people are saying.

@Red Falcon : If you’re talking about PVE, you’re already wrong. Most fights are longer than 30s, especially in dungeons. PvP, yes, if you’re one one vs one. But if there’s a group, fight will be longer, then you’ll need to use it again.

@Numot : Yes, and that depends also on what you plan to do. Surviving very long (even if it’s more Guardian), short fights, etc. But in any case, you have to take these numbers in consideration.

If I would like the best healing combination, I would take Healing Surge + Restorative Strength, Adrenal Health, and either shout or banners heal (haven’t calculated yet what’s best). My aim was to put clear number on every heal, better than what you can find IG.

And about burst skills and adrenaline, it’s true that with some traits, you can get a lot more benefit from not using burst skills, you will gain Adrenal Health, Crit (discipline trait), etc. I think that’s a choice that’s left to the player, and that’s pretty good to be able to do one or the other. That’s another choice that’s to get taken account of.

I’m changing build quite frequently, testing them (in PvP mainly, even if I don’t really plan to PvP, more Pve or WvW). Currently, I am on a sword + shield, and rifle. Both sword and rifle make bleed, so arms traits. With crit discipline, adrenal health, and healing cure, I better not spend my adrenaline, except for finishing enemies and preventing them to escape (flurry : immobilize + lots of bleed + deep cut = death on any low hp).

I did the maths a bit lower, and Healing Signet + discipline trait still get lower hp than other heals. However, you’re right, combined with some rune set, that can be useful.
The shame is that the only healing skill focused only on healing (no other effects) is the less effective (by his own, or with faster recharge). Even if Healing Cure has some requisites (Adrenaline), that doesn’t seem very fair.

For regeneration, it seems to be a boon, that you have or not. But as bleeding, it can be stacked from different sources. Each source providing a different amount of hp. So all regeneration aren’t the same, some depends on healing power, some doesn’t.

If you guys want, I can make a post with every heal the warrior can get, from shouts, heal skills, banneer. I would just need to find the data and the wiki seems to have some (not all though).

@Proeliator
I said Mending was 224hp/s and you’re saying 222hp/s. That’s pretty much the same.

Also, about Adrenaline, it’s very easy to manage it so that you have max adren the moment you heal. If you have an axe (or 2), adrenaline goes up really fast, and so Healing Surge at max is nearly guaranteed.
In fact, I searched that to know if a build using axe + shield (or horn) was possible with great defense + shouts/dps.

That would have mean Restorative Strength, Adrenal Health, Last Stand (I heard it’s bugged, but not sure).

You can’t say : some healing skill is better than another. You have to count it as a part of a build. What I did here was merely comparing numbers, that you have to take account of when you’re making your build, that’s all.

Also, I just saw Signet Mastery, signet recharges 20% faster. I’m not sure of how to get the percentages right, but i’ll give a try.
The skill recharges in 20sec. That makes 5% per s.
+20% that makes 6%.
It takes approximately 16.66 sec to recharge, and so heal 199,2hp/s. Still not really worth it.

I don’t agree about Mending being best. It’s 224hp/s, and one condition removal. It’s obviously better than Healing Signet (even if the Signet can have other uses), but there’s a lot of other ways to get rid of condition : Shake it Off, Stability, some traits.

Are you sure ? Healing surge is 10 adrenaline, but I don’t know if it’s based on the 100% bar or the number of strikes needed.
Anyway, that wasn’t the point, my demonstration was more about the usefulness in terms of heal.

Am I the only one who don’t want a 2H axe ? Or, as it’s presented now ?
What you’re proposing is a mix of some of the other weapons skills. All the weapons have some pros (and cons) and they’re focused on something.
Sword is bleed, axe is fast adren, mace is cc, gs is damage/aoe, etc.
But I don’t see what would that 2H axe be different of what we have already. Another weapon skin ?

I was in search for the best heal skills (in terms of hp points given back) for the warrior and I wondered whether Healing Signet or Healing Surge is better.

So I did a little maths, just taking the wiki values.
I consider that Healing Surge is used at maximum adrenaline, which you can do easily, especially with an axe.

If you use Healing Surge when your adrenaline is full (which you should always do), it will give you 8,440hp. It has a cooldown time of 30s. So in average, it makes 281,33hp/s.

About the healing Signet now.
While passive, the healing signet will provide 200hp/s. So, it’s under the Healing Surge.
When activated, the Signet loose the regeneration effect, granting 3,320hp, with a cooldown time of 20 sec before active or passive being available again.
At that point, it makes 166hp/s.

As we can see, the Healing Surge provide the best heal.
Of course, I don’t say Healing Surge is better than Healing Signet. A regeneration (that you don’t have to care about nor activate) is great. But the healing signet provides a regeneration with a possibility of burst when needed (active).

So, after I did that, I thought I should share it on the warrior forum, and here is it.
Hope that helps.

(I’ve not included the adrenaline boost that the Healing Surge provides too, but I think it’s minor anyway).