Guild Wars 2

thunderblaze.3802:

Borlis, on behalf of my guild, Crafters [CRFT], thank you for allowing us to use you earlier. Ehmry at at our south gate, and broke gate and wall, while you were at our north gate. So I was like hey guys, let Borlis come in and play, we’ll charge on my mark after they fight each other and wipe them both. Boy was that an epic fight

Haha, that was a good one. I was there, the charr that flung themselves into your midst to delay the capping.

Funny thing is we had more on the way and might could have won that battle, but people were too scared to die so didn’t jump in and stop the cap. Ironically then being horribly slaughtered. Go figure.

Good fight though.

Not all supporters of night capping do it themselves. I am from Ehmry Bay. We have low night time presence. Nightcapping is still fine.

Your arguments all have absolutely nothing to do with night capping. They have everything to do with population imbalance. The time is completely irrelevant.

zastari.1730:

I lost count of how many times we wiped the dh zerg off of their BL before most of us left to protect Mag and they took Garrison.

Y’all gonna need to learn how to press buttons other than autoattack it looks like.

Best way to deal with a comment like this is report and move on. If it’s only 1-2 isolated members mods will take actions other than lock the thread. It takes mass involvement and lack of reporting to get a thread locked.

Players are capable of self policing and staying respectful. Mods are just here to help ensure the stubborn ones cannot spam anyways.

epicsmooth.7825:

Ralathar.7236

Don’t go to that corner then? I was there and saw one asura doing it and you have to walk over and around that corner for him to even be able to attack you.

Congratulations for making an insulting comment that adds nothing to the conversation. I think anyone knows that once they experience it, but thanks for being unkind because you can. I as of yet lack the ability to see the future so I will always fall prey to something I have not done or witnessed once.

runeblade.7514:

I can’t believe that Ehmry Bay has been reduced to trash that we have to fight servers like Anvil Rock and Borlis Pass.

Free transfer is a joke.

This is not representative of Ehmry Bay spirit and has been reported. We do not tolerate people being total kittens here for no reason. My apologies to Anvil and Borlis. You guys have been bringing out the fight to us even with such a large point disparity. You deserve respect, not this.

Oh, and this is aimed at Anet.

Night capping is more of a question of population imbalance than anything else. You guys needs to give more help and more incentive to the little guys in a fight. The ones who are outnumbered and outgunned trying to take back full maps.

If you give them enough incentive to get out there and fight even when things look hopeless ten problems like this will largely if themselves. Not through any direct action of yall, but because people will actually FIGHT IT.

But there definitely needs to be something. Your average person doesn’t have the fortitude to handle the devastating blow to morale that being completely outnumbered at any time of day brings to the table with out.

Heck, I would not be opposed to NPC forces spawning after a predefined amount of time to help people out. Anyone that complains about servers getting absolutely whomped getting a little NPC help to take back their corner of the map is not a true PVP player.

This is great, but what about the rest of the players, who do not and cannot play during midnight that are getting negatively affected by TINY MINORITY of graveyard shift players?

Simple truth – having night capping crew is probably THE MOST IMPORTANT WvW aspect any server could have. Night capers guarantee that a server starts with 600+ points, fully upgraded everything, 3 orbs and full supplies. More often than not, this is not a position you could recover from.

As of right now night capers have EQUAL IMPACT than PRIME TIME players. This is just WRONG!

You’re right, it’s not quite equal. They have an advantage. Not a huge one and not a tiny one. A decent advantage. But the real reason people lose vs night cappers is the morale loss. People simply give up. That is the bulk of the advantage.

If most of your people give up when it looks like you are going to lose then you’ll always be losing in your proper tier because it’s too easy to break your morale.

Night servers will fall into 1 of 2 categories:

1. Do not have as high of population as you doing the day. (Take advantage of it)

2. Simply have more people than your server does.

If it’s #1 then you can fight it. If it’s #2 then the battle was going to be a tough one no matter what and that’s not the fault of night capping.

So get out there and fight. If you’re outnumbered? FIGHT!!. If you’re being night capped? FIGHT!!. If you’’re losing? FIGHT!!. I cannot promise you will win. But I can promise that you will do alot better if you keep fighting and you keep your server fighting as well.

Besides, if you get discouraged and run away with your tail tucked between your legs then how do you even feel brazen enough to complain? You have to give it your full effort and have your server give it’s full effort too for you to have any idea how much of a disadvantage night capping is.

deathTouch.9706:

Nightcapping is the main reason why DH is winning, and will result in a similar disparity in score compared to the servers that mainly won with nightcapping that have come before DH.

Having said that, DH is a bit disappointing in the individual skill department for the most part. Being able to take out groups of 10+ with 3 people, although quite fun, is a bit sad. I think they’re going to have a very rough time when they reach the bracket where nightcapping can’t carry them to victory, as previous servers I’ve played against with high night pop such as SoS and FA are much better than DH.

So my advice to DH is: enjoy your population while it lasts. Once you hit that wall, I think that will be the end of DH for the most part.

It all depends on whether you encounter their pugs or their organized groups. Their pugs you can wipe 3:1. Their organized groups are more of a challenge.

Northern Shiverpeaks was difficult to judge because there were very few times I faced them last week that they were not hitting us an overwhelming zerg that would could take out 3:1. I don’t think I ever really got to face many of their organized groups.

It’s really all a matter of which folks you encounter. Same is true on Ehmry Bay. Certain guilds and running groups will slaughter much higher numbers, but the horde of PVEr’s and transfers online right now are wheat to the scythe for any skilled opponents.

1st off night capping. Night capping is fine. I just got my tushy trounced by it last week and night capping is still fine. People play when they play, and that means they don’t play other times.

2. Portal bombing and others things may or may not be exploiting. It’s currently in a grey area. Just because the devs said portal bombing is fine doesn’t mean they said portal bombing is fine exactly the way you are using it.

I imagine balance decisions will be made and there will be an epic flood of whining and tears long overdue. Much like thieves and stealth.

Lastly, remember that something being “legit” doesn’t mean it isn’t cheap or dishonorable. Being the #1 server that used every legal but underhanded play in the book doesn’t make you good players IMO. It makes you good at cheating the system.

Rhyis.7058:

Dude, Mag has multiple rams on top their keep walls at this very moment. Incorrect treb placement is just some guy who hasn’t done WvW before.

I’ve seen noobs placing easily killed siege a ridiculous amounts of times. Why would I only call out only one time unless I was quite sure? During the same fight some others placed siege on the wall as well. The way these guys were doing it was significantly different and by themselves they cost us like 400 supply out of the 600 we had.

People who are doing it with rams are just the stupid exploiters because that’s much easier to pin. Lind of like there are stupid thieves and there are smart thieves.

FYI that example was also in a fight against GOM, not Mag. I was not privy to any instances of Mag doing that to us in our matchup.

BTW since hacks and etc have already been brought up.

Take this as a plea from all of Ehmry Bay. If you see a hacker from any realm then report that kitten. Don’t just report him but let the server they are on know. Get in contact with multiple guilds with the name of that person if possible. (Available when attempting to report them I believe)

I want a fair match and good fights and cheating destroys everything I love about this game. So screencap, report, and out those cheaters. Anet can’t do it all themselves, as the players a large amount of responsibility falls to us.

Whiteice.2548:

We all know the true reason why EB has the map right now its because their exploting every bug they can. I guess thats why no one likes them at all and their know as the bugged server.

I was part of the Guild that took Borlis Pass. To the best of my knowledge we did not exploit anything. We came in hot off of our loss to Darkhaven and Northern Shiverpeaks with a plan and we executed it with good leadership from multiple coordinated guilds.

If you think nobody likes us check our last matchup thread vs Northern Shiverpeaks and Darkhaven. We got slaughtered any time that was not prime time, but got respect for not giving up even in the final hours of the match while down 100k points from second place even. We never gave up, we just didn’t have the population the other two sides did at all.

Evalana.5480:

./sigh

Apparently in order to win, we must form a giant zergball and start swinging. Little to no skill required at all.

I’m going back to structured.

Stop concentrate on winning, start concentrating on what you can do. Every small step helps. If all you can do at a given time is flip supply camps, kill dolyaks, and ambush the enemies looking to take them back then do so. If you can muster enough to take a tower then go for it.

Can you overcome vastly superior numbers? Most likely not. Can you have a vastly improved WvW experience where you get to have epic battles and wins instead of just giving up? Definitely. I don’t want my opponents running away, I want them fighting me and keeping me on my toes. If we slip up, make us pay.

Hymnosi.5928:

EB, not sure how you lost so hard to get stuck down in this bracket, you have more numbers, more organization, and more geared 80s than both of our servers. On eternal I didn’t see you use a single siege tactic point for the 6 hours I was able to play, except rams occasionally.

I did like your lord room chokepoint around 10pm yesterday at stonemist, pretty nice.

In our last matchup Northern Shiverpeaks definitely had the most population overall and they spent half a week relentlessly attacking us and more or less leaving Darkhaven alone. They didn’t change thier tactic until Thursday. Darkhaven struck both sides equally more or less. We were the lowest population of the 3 realms in that matchup by far. As one person put it Northern Shiverpeak controlled the day Darkhaven controlled the night, and Ehrmy Bay controlled the 15 minutes in between.

Ironically they destroyed our score and they threw the match all because of their decision to do that. Despite being so utterly crushed however Ehmry Bay surprised me and actually fought HARDER as time went on despite having no hope at even hitting second place (100k+ from both first and second final score).

Our score doesn’t reflect our actual competitiveness in that match but instead the decision NSP made to so heavily focus us for the majority of the match.

Rhyis.7058:

Are there legitimate exploit/hackers going around or are you just getting killed by tactics you haven’t seen because you haven’t fought in this bracket or higher yet? The former happens on all servers by a couple individuals that need to be banned instantaneously. Mag wants nothing to do with cheater either and will report our own if we see it. If it’s the latter, well, welcome to some tactics we’ve either learned or developed ourselves along the way against the better tiered servers.

Edit: lol, wait. The tactics are some random newbies are taking supplies out of your towers/keeps… lol, every server has randoms that take supply out of towers/keeps. Welcome to WvW. And on top of that you’re trying to get them banned for it? Wow lol. DH might be right up there with Ehmry Bay in terms of throwing out crazy tinfoil hat conspiracies.

Since Ehmry Bay was mentioned: I’ve seen alot of stupid siege placement but the only time I’ve noticed blatant intentional supply wasting was when facing GOM. We had a keep defense where a few players kept placing trebs on the front keep wall and building them. They were indeed low level and cleared out our supplies in short order.

Best I know Maguuma is best known on Ehmry Bay not for that or hacking but instead for taking full advantage of game glitches during the match-up we had with them. Game glitches happen true, it’s unavoidable, but you do not have to abuse them. Abusing glitches is called exploitation. Most of these glitches have since been fixed.

Darkhaven was solid and honorable in our matchup, Northern Shiverpeaks was the same. The calls of hacking were both rare and incidental. Both servers played a clean game in their own styles. The fact I care enough to watch this thread and defend those realms shows the respect they earned from me.

Maguuma and GOM are the only two servers I’ve faced where exploiting or hacking has been an issue. Again you can’t avoid glitches and stuff, but you CAN avoid abusing them. Just because it’s possible without a 3rd party program doesn’t make it legit.

Rhyis.7058:

This isn’t DAoC, nor is it 2003. There is no controlling the zerg, it does what it wants. Most guilds can’t even work with guilds on their own server, let alone align themselves with an opposing force.

But people don’t change and they haven’t. Also, yes you can very easily control the zerg if you know what you are doing and have leadership skills. The zerg is like water and can be guided and controlled at a whim by someone with the mental tools for the task. Commander symbol is one of those tools.

DAOC btw had all the same things you mentioned as well. Yes both the organized and disorganized exist in every game and the difference is normally only a small group of people.

Rhyis.7058:

Naracion.6597

I didn’t play DAOC but from what I understand the whole reasons three factions worked so well was because the two factions that were not winning would label “target priority” as the top server. So I’m kinda under the impression (that either by intention or by simple normal flow) that cross server alliances are allowed.

Every time you walk into WvW, 2 servers will be attacking the other. Every. Single. Time. The people that scream alliances are afoot are always those that have absolutely no idea what’s going on.

Actually DAOC showed quite well that spoken and unspoken alliances DID indeed happen. But they are fragile and temporary things.

Having just been through that same thing a few match-ups as Ehmry Bay know this: I fight for Ehmry Bay, but I’ll be rooting for you guys as well.

Kevin.7914:

“problem is it’s a high pop server but we’re not a high pop WvW server. When there’s interest (i.e. match reset) we do tend to do well, but interest seems to wain,”

more reason for matchup to be on a 48 hour reset

Take a lesson from Ehmry Bay. Even when massively outnumbered we make our presence known and make a showing in WvW. The problem there isn’t anything to do with your match-up system but getting your people organized and fired up.

1 Day down and Ehmry Bay is surprisingly doing quite well. Though I’d like to see more of you Anvil Rock folks out there. We might be on top right now but maybe yall can change that.

Borlis Pass? Good fights today in your BL. If we slip, let us have it.

After facing Darkhaven who did this vs Ehmry Bay and Northern Shiverpeaks badly I have changed my stance.

I have no problem with night capping. One of three things happen. Either one side nightcaps and has weak daytime hours, there is fighting during the night, or one side just flat out has more people or better coverage from the people they have.

It wouldn’t be fair to handicap a realm that had players staying on for longer because you only had 1 hour to play for example. Nor would it be fair to penalize them for having night forces when they are weak during the day.

Most of the real issue here is the server transfers and the slow rate at which matches are approaching convergence, partially because of those transfers. Both problems should disappear in time and then you will whine about other things.

Avatara.1042:

Play an Elementalist, THEN comment on whether downed state is good or not.

Bottom line: balance downed state or remove it.

Actually I find that while the elementalist and engineer downstate is not as good at helping itself, it is superior to helping kill others while you are downed. On two classes you will likely be fighting at range with and so shouldn’t have as much worry of a melee spike.

Worban.1574:

Yes, kudos and big respect from me on DH to both NSP and EB players. NSP fought hard with some pretty solid coordination. I have tremendous respect for EB because while they trailed a distant third, we often couldn’t tell on the battlefield with the ferocity they displayed.

You kept fighting, reclaiming your map and putting up really good fights when most other servers would have just quit playing WvW. That shows a lot of spirit and I thank you for keeping WvW a fun, interesting 3-way battle to the very end!

NSP, looking forward to another week against ya! Glad to hear that you’ll probably be losing one of your less than reputable guilds to a European server. I know they were not native to NSP so I never judged NSP by their renegade actions. I also hope you find a decent replacement for that guild before the next reset. I don’t want to see your numbers thin any.

Cheers to a great week!

Loved it, was a great fight overall. I was very proud of my home server for sticking in there when most people turn tail and go home. I wasn’t sure what to think about Ehmry Bay WvW at first, but they have shown me that it is a server that I’m downright proud to be a part of.

Keep nightcapping people to death. Eventually they will learn their lessons that yes indeed night capping is something that can be overcome and comes with it’s own weaknesses generally. When that day comes I hope you are tenacious as us and give em kitten!!

Since several NSP players responded to my last post and got mod smacked I want to clarify:

I have nothing against NSP and never had. Fact is we had to defend almost exclusively against NSP in EB for the entire first half of the week while DH would launch sorties at both sides more or less evenly. This was horribly demoralizing. We responded in kind and showed that we would not be pushed around and that there would be repercussions for attempting to “farm” us. We are not one of those servers that logs and quits.

I bear no animus against you and had overall I had a good time fighting you guys. Especially once you changed tactics at mid week and stopped focusing us so hardcore. I’m sorry if some of you took it personally. This is war, I don’t take things personally. I just repay the favor or even the odds with tenacity if lacking in other areas.

Should we clash again in another match-up I hope for a good clean fight with lessons learned on all sides.

epicsmooth.7825:

Covers it with weak points.

As always that is a matter of opinion.

Dee Jay.2460:

Removing the downed state would do a great deal to fix many of the current WvW issues. It would buff defenders significantly as they’d have a much better chance and holding off attackers.

It would make positions on the map more strategic since you have to factor in respawn times. Taking a tower deep in enemy territory would be significantly harder than taking one close by.

Defenders already have quite a significant advantage if properly prepared. But you must upgrade and place siege properly to achieve most of the effect of this. They have a moderate advantage with those things neglected.

It also is already harder to take and keep towers deep in enemy territory. Much harder. They have the positioning, supply lines, map control, and ability to place siege in multiple useful locations to take down a tower. It’s not the games fault if people are not defending and you triple flame ram down the doors they neglected to upgrade or have 4 people trying to defend against 20 without proper siege.

Most of the complaints about downed and outnumbered simply reflect people’s mistakes in playing the game and their unwillingness to admit they are making those mistakes. I’m an aggressive play style player from Ehmry Bay, I am intimately familiar with both of those with the experience to say you are flat out wrong on all counts.

XarchX.8024:

Cmon Ehmry bay we cant keep losing like this (Oct 19)

Not much of a choice, we were at a massive numbers disadvantage the whole time.

I will say however that Ehmry Bay performed admirably and never rolled over and died like many other servers in 3rd place with no chance of winning. We fought tooth and nail and stuck our thumbs in the eyes of our opponents even when downed. In fact our intervention is a big part of the reason Northern Shiverpeaks hasn’t been able to close the point gap completely yet. I have been working hard to prevent exactly that.

I have nothing against ya personally Shiverpeaks, but you were pretty much permanently invading our lands the first half of the week and are a large part of why our 3rd place score is so far behind both of yall. Our preventing your comeback so far is our way of saying that payback is a kitten yo.

Still, hands shakes and good battles all around. When we meet again in a match it will be a fresh day and we shall see what the others will do.

Kirrund.2654:

I like downed state. I think it adds a new dynamic to the game and I honestly don’t see what all the complaints are about.

Since people are making the claim that it’s only for casuals, my credentials:

Played DAOC in an infamous 8 man gank group for quite a while, was second highest RR animist in the world until quit. Wiped zergs on a consistent basis.

Played WoW: Top 20 rankings of multiple teams with multiple classes in arena in s1-3 (when I played) and #1 in S3, played and beat some of the best players in the world.

In GW2: Our 5-8 man group WvWs about 4 nights a week. We routinely kill double and triple our number. It isn’t as impossible as you make it sound.

Some tips.

Use AOE to punish rezzing. Dancing dagger for example (when used by a crit/power thief) will instantly annihilate anyone trying to rez. It’s a death sentence. Also, use daze/knockback/pushpull to interrupt rezzing.

Use Quickness to execute.

We have a dedicated rezzer and finisher in our group, an engineer who has maxed power/toughness/vitality and is nearly unkillable. He has stability/quickness elixir for rezzing or downing. That’s mostly his job. Also, the thief with shadow refuge makes executing/rezzing a less risky ordeal. We also have Time Warp for rezzing and downing, if necessary.

Couple of notes:

The game isn’t balanced around 1v1 or 1v2, it’s a group game, which is why the downed state exists: it’s for team oriented play. Make friends. The downed state protects against players thinking they’re skilled just because they went all out damage spec and mashed 3 buttons + quickness to instagib someone. That’s not skill, anyone can do that. You read guides to do that. If you want to 1v2, you need to be a little more creative, instead of just hitting your damage rotation and expecting to win.

I like the downed state. I agree that some professions have better downed states than others, but I feel this will get smoothed out over time. Perhaps the speed at which someone can be rezzed by a single player may be adjusted downward a small, small %. But that’s it.

Good players will find out how to “beat” the downed state, instead of constantly complaining about it. It’s an interesting mechanic, one that adds a unique aspect.

This is exactly why it will not be changed. The downed state is a skill based mechanic and every class has options they can use to safely spike someone , pull them, punt them, or make the area a deathtrap.

For example a Ranger using Rampage as One would be uninterruptible for a spike. I’ve even seen an engineer use Elixer S to spike. Stop trying to dumb the game down because you don’t understand how to counter things that have definitive counters.

Also facing zergs all the usual themes apply including extending people, mass CC, breaking morale, etc. But at a certain point you have to expect to have a very difficult time winning. An earlier example like 2 vs 8-10 is something you SHOULD NOT win unless all the enemies are brain-dead. If you do then the game has balance issues that require nerfs to your stuff :P.

aaron.4317:

The downed state has ruined countless fights that otherwise would have been nothing short of epic. I can’t think of a single instance where it made any fight better.

Terrible mechanic. Designed to be a crutch to keep the unskilled zerg limping along without getting rolled by better playing smaller forces. Along with AOE cap of 5, and other terrible design choices, WvW in GW2 is the most casual friendly, lowest skill cap PvP sytsem in an MMO to ever be made.

Look up ^^^ at my last post. It covers all of that.

Acelerion.6820:

Everything doesen’t have to though. Removing multiple rezzers for instance would go a long way.

The only thing that doesn’t really favor the zerg is unlimited AOE targets, and that becomes so toxic in it’s exploitation that it’s game breaking.

I can make the argument that if I chew through your health bar I deserve a badge of honor at least, especially if Im outnumbered.

I play on Ehmry Bay. I’m always outnumbered. It’s a way of life. No you do not deserve kill credit for a partial kill. Especially considering what some classes or class combos are capable of. That would be far far too easy.

You say this is a step forward but nothing supports that. Its a step outside the box definitely but its yet to be shown that its any better/more interesting/whatever than traditional mechanics.

If you cannot see that 5 people spending 5 seconds gathered point blank around a person is more limited than rezzing people from a safe distance with a shorter cast time then I really don’t know what to tell you. Because reason is obviously out of the picture.

Look all the griping I see here about outnumbered and etc is HOGWASH. I’ve overcome superior numbers many times with some of the folks I run around with. It is far from impossible. Yall are wrong. Period. I’ll quote myself from something I just posted on the WvW board.

Ralathar.7236

I want to say I am proud of Ehmry Bay tonight. An epic supply camp defense in the Darkhaven BL, a stubborn hold in Ehmry Bay BL, we actually controlled the most of the 3 realms at one time, AND we ninja’d Stonemist in Eternal Battlegrounds. The only reason we didn’t hold it longer is some pugs used the supplies to repair one of the gates, so instead of both Shiverpeaks and Darkhaven clashing in the middle Darkhaven made it in by a fair margin first. shakes fist at clueless puggers

All if this while having the out-manned buff the large majority of the time.

I’m sure we’ll lose everything now since people do eventually have to sleep sometime, and we were already far outnumbered, but we did a great job tonight. You should all be proud guys. Except for those few who repaired the inner stonemist gate lol. You guys need to think more about the big picture.

You think you can just waltz into a far superior force and kitten them to death? Not gonna happen. You have to be either good or organized. Preferably both. Even then at around a 3:1 ratio there is a tipping point that normally will not be overcome and this has nothing to do with the downed state. Eventually the odds just get too high to reasonably overcome.

Use siege, bait out and extend the enemy and crush those who overextend. Use pulls!! Can’t stress that enough. Durable people can get closer up front and dodge roll through/punt people back, use siege, use defensive locations, choose battles of your choice that are beneficial to you, get organized, learn how to break a zergs morale and have them fall back even when they outnumber you, you’ll almost always pick some off and rez you own, try playing a healing/support oriented spec because they make a big difference, etc.

There are countless strategies that you are obviously not taking full advantage of.

I want to say I am proud of Ehmry Bay tonight. An epic supply camp defense in the Darkhaven BL, a stubborn hold in Ehmry Bay BL, we actually controlled the most of the 3 realms at one time, AND we ninja’d Stonemist in Eternal Battlegrounds. The only reason we didn’t hold it longer is some pugs used the supplies to repair one of the gates, so instead of both Shiverpeaks and Darkhaven clashing in the middle Darkhaven made it in by a fair margin first. shakes fist at clueless puggers

All if this while having the out-manned buff the large majority of the time.

I’m sure we’ll lose everything now since people do eventually have to sleep sometime, and we were already far outnumbered, but we did a great job tonight. You should all be proud guys. Except for those few who repaired the inner stonemist gate lol. You guys need to think more about the big picture.

Acelerion.6820:

I suppose something akin to downed state was the natural result of removing healers and by extension rezzers.

Its a bold step away from the status quo. Unfortunately this one didnt work so well.

In MMOs even questionable designs usually have an amazing amount of ardent supporters. Ive never seen something as universally disliked before.

The ironic thing is that this actually has less impact than healers and resurrection spells and can be more easily countered.

I understand WHERE players are coming from, but they are building up a new challenge into an insurmountable feat. It’s something else to get used to and like EVERYTHING it favors the zerg (yes everything does), but it’s not some impossible issue like people make it out to be and adds a strategic wrinkle.

The biggest thing here is that people have an attitude that they are entitled those “kills” and quite simply they are not. People also make the argument that this makes attrition not count, but this has been the way it has been in all PVP MMORPG’s thanks to healers and rezzers.

Simply stated most of the arguments do not hold water, do not understand the impacts of their wishes, and forget that this is still a step forwards in that area while not forcing ridiculous runbacks that nobody finds fun unless you overextend or lose completely. If you lose completely you were outplayed or fought a battle you should not have, simple as that.

The only thing that I will agree on is that rez progression needs to decay after a short amount of time to prevent the incremental rezzing. Those people overextended and deserve to run back and learn their lesson.

Lilun.8732:

I must point out, EB borderlands had some wait time around Monday 6-7-ish PST. It was a wtf moment, but, we were dominating EB borderlands at that time.

On another note: Eternal last night, we were in and out of the outmanned buff as we worked to sap supply from SM keep… on the off-chance that we could ninja it from Darkhaven’s hands… but yea, it got pretty late… and don’t know what came of it.

We never got to do it. NSP fielded more night troops than normal and Darkhaven fielded less. We successfully messed up the supply lines and hit the keep multiple times ourself, draining thier supplies to nearly zero but we didn’t have have the numbers to hit it and Darkhaven was actually facing even odds OR WORSE against NSP last night.

In Ehmry Bay we are a stubborn lot, the outmanned buff is just a commonplace thing we are used to lol. Even in Eternal Battlegrounds.

Raptor.9863:

I promise there has been no match throwing. Stop pretending to know things that you don’t.

Yall didn’t throw the match through giving up, yall threw the match through bad tactics. By spending some much time focusing on Ehmry Bay you allowed Darkhaven to run away with the lead a large amount. This has already been stated by a few people in this thread since we were “soft targets” and since some of you started gunning for #2 instead of #1.

tl;dr if yall had thrown the same forces at Darkhaven that you relentlessly threw at Ehmry Bay the first half of the week the fight would be ridiculous amounts more even right now.

Divinorium.8952:

Until were i know, the defenders SHOULD have the advantage. Castle were build to make a small force hold against a bigger force, why in a game should be different?

PPL need to understand that sieges, its not made by killing the oil, them placing rams and hitting the door until it falls.

We have catas, treb, ballistas, and i’m pretty sure anet didn’t placed all tha just for show.

Actually in the middle of last night some Ehmry Bay people pushed Darkhaven off of our keep while outnumbered 3:1. We didn’t even have siege until we had already pushed them back somewhat other than the semi-coordinated Oil rebuild to kill the siege golem. We killed all the flame rams ourselves and even survived the occasional pull offa the wall.

Ricky.4706:

am very happy to see Ebay hanging in there and putting up a fight – I’m in DH, but am cheering the fighting spirit of Ebay ..hang in there guys – we aren’t out to stomp anyone’s pride …just having fun and putting up a good fight

Raffie.7865:

I think EBay has held their share of the map much better then we (DH) have done in the past.

Very nice guys.

Fizzlepip.5218:

Also, as of now I’ve had no complaints about either EBay or NS. We don’t run into two servers every matchup that play hard and fight fair and are learning the ropes as we are. Hope to see more of you guys!

When we have the people to put up a significant fight it’s been a pleasure to battle your DH folks. There have been plenty of victories both ways on that one, I only wish that we could field some people in the night to give yall a little opposition.

The reason Ehmry Bay isn’t giving up is we already got put through several raw match-ups, so most of the fair-weather players bailed on us a long time ago. You have mostly the determined players left who fight for the pride of Ehmry Bay…RAWR!!

Only thing I’d change about this match-up honestly is wishing that NSP had been a bit more equal opportunity in picking targets. Would have made the whole thing a much closer and more fun fight. Night capping sucks to play against, but it’s something you gotta deal with, mitigate, and attempt to overcome.

zastari.1730:

Ralathar.7236:

Yeah, try being the 3rd place realm that never gets to upgrade it’s stuff because both sides see easy takes compared to each others fully upgraded towers they got while nobody else was on lol.

I agree it’s our fault for not being able to field the people, but the game also encourages farming the weaker of the 3 realms for points instead of actually fighting the stronger realms.

I’m from Maguuma, and we played against you last matchup. We won not because we had a heavy night-crew but because a group of guilds set up global server VOIP. This matchup, we’re getting steamrolled and losing everything we have every night because we have no night coverage and are up against an Oceanic-heavy server. I know what the field looks like when you get rolled by nightcapping, and I can tell you that nightcapping doesn’t explain your server’s performance (okay, maybe it did at the end when you all had vanished due to the score spread).

Rather than giving up and blaming nightcapping, I would recommend considering what you can do to improve your performance. EBay has a lot of potential that you all need to organize together and realize.

I never said anything about Maguuma. Aside for that garrison glitch best I know yall played fine. Something people really should learn: everything including night capping should be judged on a match by match basis.

For instance if Darkhaven has heavy nighttime presence and moderate daytime presence. Conversely everyone else has Heavy daytime presence and nearly zero nighttime presence. It’s plainly not an even tradeoff. But that’s war.

Biggest thing about night capping though is that it’s extremely demoralizing to see realms gain 40k points against zero opposition and nothing you can do about it realistically.

Everything else you can come back from but it’s maddening to know there is nothing you can do about those large point jumps. Ehmry Bay is able to field maybe 5-10 to face off against 20-40. But we’ll keep trying!!! smiles and shakes fist

Ricky.4706:

also, my advice to E-bay – I noticed many of your players don’t have level 80 characters …I’m a level 80 character with a crafted weapon, respectfully I was taking down tons of you guys with little effort. and I was getting level 5-10 gear as drops from it. Not to mention you should have worked with us vs NS for a while since they had the bigger numbers. You guys do have a good strategy though, but your firepower with real level 80 characters could be stronger. Many DH players are also pve’rs with max characters / items.

To be fair without our lowbies actively leveling in WvW we would be even more horribly undermanned.

diabluz.2860:

What Ralathar is saying is partially correct. We have serious cohesion issues with coordination on Darkhaven. It can be extremely frustrating at times. We would do MUCH better if we had better cohesion and organization.

All it’s going to take is for us to face a sizable force that has good strategy and we will be screwed.

It’s easy to see because we suffer the same issues.

Raptor.9863:

Someone from ebay calling nsp unwise. That’s funny.

Considering that yall pretty much threw this entire matchup I consider it a fair assessment. We certainly have our issues, but that’s kind of a red herring.

Just got repulsed on Ogres by Darkhaven after repelling a keep siege in EB against far superior numbers. On ogres we got the gate down and were fighting 1:1 inside and winning. But right before we wiped em more Darkhaven swooped in behind to make it 3:1 odds.

I gotta say Dark, you’re going to need to get better if you are going up a tier. You have numbers at night but that’s it. If Ehrmy Bay can break a far superior force (with shiverpeaks harassing both till we drove em off) and then only fails a keep siege against even numbers thanks to a hardcore zerg? Well, others will tear you apart.

I can’t give yall a good overall grade. You’re day crew is smart fighters and win the big picture with the help of Shiverpeaks being not so wise. You’re night crew appears to be the base zerg level skill from what I’ve face of them to date. I admit being a bit disappointed.

I’m going to have to agree after all this time that your win is primarily based on the peak time differential and night capping. But at least you’re better than Northern Shiverpeaks. Shame I eventually ended up at this conclusion but seriously yall best prepare for tiers that actually field night crews or you’re going to get hit hard by the skill differential.

Keiel.7489:

All I’m saying is I’m kind of disappointed at this match up, not because we are losing but simply because of the peak hour differences. During the day we would push and take majority of the map and at night DH would take it. I am very impressed with DH’s coordination during their night time attacks, having the large population is one thing, being able to coordinate them all is a whole other feat.

I would like to play against DH’s peak team while NSP has our peak team up too, but by night fall, our population starts to wane and it just becomes a steamroll, we don’t even have the bodies to throw at you to slow the progression in any meaningful way.

That’s when you organize small groups to stick and move on supply camps as long as possible. The zerg cannot be everywhere at once and every point tick and dolyak matters. Just gotta keep at it. But for some reason people think the only way to do any good is to defeat the enemy straight on.

You might even get some moments of opportunity for towers. But the big thing is to stick and move.

Coolmoos.8546:

Yes.. you had the help of RED pressing on us to take our side of EB. Which is why I explained that to get 2nd place you have to also fight 1st place.

Yes.. you had the help of RED pressing on us to take our side of EB. Which is why I explained that to get 2nd place you have to also fight 1st place.So last night we were taking 2v1 until yall just overpowered us with red, then just turned and took red as well.

You know why you had Ehmry Bay (Red) pressing you? Because you attacked anz to mendon’s constantly for the entire 12 hours previously. I was going to have us hitting Darkhaven to make this more of a competition instead of a runaway domination again and we still hadn’t given up.

But yall screwed that all up. Instead of doing the wise thing and focusing on Darkhaven you focused us instead and paid for it in spades. Perhaps because many people have admittedly already given up on trying for #1.

Northern Shiverpeaks had the manpower to make this matchup a really tough fight for Darkhaven, and from what I’ve seen had you let us be you would have had a good chance of winning. But you screwed both us and yourselves over instead.

Ricky.4706:

We weren’t touching Ebay – they drew first blood by taking our supply camps and attacking sm after we got it ( with a small team might I add ) . The rest is history. We actually were discussing in game about helping you get 2nd place – but apparently the night shift didn’t read the forums.

As well we did. We would have hit you harder if NSP wouldn’t have been permanently in our lands. I don’t think anyone should be settling up for second place and alliances are made to be broken. Also, NSP and Dark being at each others throats in a close match is about as good for us as a partial alliance. DO KEEP IN MIND however that you had attacked us many times throughout the day, just not near as much as NSP. NSP was on us like stink on poo all day long.

Those that kept hitting SM? You can’t reason with those folks. You really can’t. The whole zone could belong to you and they’d still want to hit SM haha.

Surprisingly though Ehmry Bay was still putting on a good showing this weekend. We’ll keep fighting. Even if NSP is deciding that trying for 1st is too much of a bother. Which, btw, they can still take if they start playing smart.

A solution that fixes another problem and helps limit how far a realm can get ahead while helping far behind realms catch up:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Disincentivize-attacking-the-weak-realm-to-farm-points/first#post438026

BoomShakaBoxer.6784:

I completely agree with this 100% and can not fathom how to +1 it anymore than I already did. Although the full implementation is definitely up in the air for discussion, the concept of this sounds the most fundamentally sound.

There is nothing wrong with downed state (save the few imbalanced on its implementation, if you choose to believe so). If anything, downed stated has been a boon and the fact that Anet decided to formalize it has been extremely pleasing to me. It is part of the game and how you react to it is your responsibility as a player.

For example, I’ve been in dungeon story/explore runs where I never die/wipe simply because our 5 guys act as a team, prioritize health management, condition management, etc. On the other hand, I’ve also been on teams that wipe consistently because people are out there for themselves. Because of that, the risk balance per player shifts drastically from a uniform/normal distribution to something outrageous akin a pareto distribution. Both outcomes, with pugs. Good players find a way to get downed players up. Bad players simply let downed players die. This works in PvE and PvP.

With that said, as far as WvW goes, right now there is nothing that deters a dead player from getting revived if they have superior numbers. They simply win the engagement, and anyone that has died, simply gets revived. Any sides can have zergs, but whichever side has the most successful zerg will always be successful, because their numbers will never drop. There’s simply no logistical cost if you are on the winning side; you never have to respawn at the WP. On the other hand, if you lose a battle, it’s always a complete loss. There’s nothing to be salvaged save the few loot bags you may have picked up.

Once you’re dead, you should stay dead. As of now, every battle culminates in a 100% victory for the winning side, and a 100% defeat for the losing side. If we get rid of revives once your dead, then these numerical margins can start to deviate and we can actually have meaningful confrontations on the battlefield. Wins and losses can be 70/30, 40/60, 90/10, etc. Things will start to be dynamic.

TL DR – Downed state is here to stay. Revives when dead, get rid of that, please.

If the battle ends in a complete wipe one way then it was a poor decision to engage. This puts more focus on choosing your fights wisely.

The problem here is that game balance would be destroyed with your suggestion. You could just stealth out with a thief and pick off one person every time for example. Even if they manage to kill you then you can run back much faster as a defender most times.

The advantage is also with the defenders in multiple ways already if people play correctly. They don’t need MORE advantages.

MajorKong.8095:

This week we’ve often attacked the weaker realm in an attempt to drive them off the borderland entirely so that we may focus on the stronger foe wholeheartedly. I don’t think I’ve had gained more badges than usual for doing this, although I am sure my repair costs have been lower.

You get easier takes and holds which means more points and successful events and supplies. Along with less repair costs and the way people feel good while winning but bad with losing.

ThyOwnage.5736:

It’s a decent plan maybe, but it is too simple. Should probably add in more factors: If they have fortification upgrades on a keep and it is taken then u get a certain % more points than what you would have for a normal keep taking. Should also have a factor of how close each server is in points. The closer they are in overall points the less they gain/lose.

Just a suggestion, but tbh I don’t really see a problem with the current situation. DH is in 1st and we would rather keep 2nd place down than go after the weakling. 3rd place just feels like they are getting tag teamed when really they just do not have the players and wvw support/organization on their server to make the difference. If you take a really good look at it you should see that Ehmry Bay is just in over their heads. A little organization goes a long way.

I’ve watched this carefully over time both via our own stuff and keeping an eye on what is what on the map. It’s also been openly admitted by Northern Shiverpeaks that we are first target because we are “soft targets” and because someone claimed not to have the manpower to take yall (Darkhaven) on. At mid day no less when we still managed to Roll Darkhaven a few times.

Ehmry Bay has it’s share of problems I understand that. Believe me I’m not trying to discount that at all, I’m bashing my head against THAT wall. BUT, us being a primary target for both realm for easy points is added on top of all that.

I do thank you guys at Darkhaven for attacking both sides, I know yall attack both sides and only slightly favor attacking us. Northern Shiverpeaks however focuses almost exclusively on us. They field enough people to control Darkhaven’s stuff during the day but spend too much time hitting us instead.

This is also not just this weeks matchup. Sorrows Furnace suffered similarly in our last matchup.

Keiel.7489:

Well first of all, you are right we did go after soft easy targets, before whatever that is on your land became green it was blue, not red. If we had the means(population) at that time we would’ve gone after DH territory (which me and a small group did actually try). So you aren’t fighting both servers at the same time in that picture, you are only fighting one, blue was the one fighting both. Don’t give yourself too much credit.

Hard for me to agree with you since Northern Shiverpeaks hitting Anz and Darkaven hitting Ogres at the same time was a running theme for the night. Also, yall were fielding 40-50 people vs us. We managed to roll Darkhaven a few times included a horribly outnumbered defense of Pang with a single ballsita. That to get back the ogres that they had taken while we were still fighting yall on the other side of the map.

I realize I don’t see all of the battlefield so I look and think very carefully before I state what is happening. Perhaps you could do the same, considering that your forces never drifted further east than Stonemist for most of the day. As such you’d have no clue WHAT we were facing.

So that’s Ehmry Bay actively attacking 2 sides, Darkhaven actively attacking 2 sides, and Northern Shiverpeaks focusing on attacking Ehmry Bay because “you didn’t have the means (population)” to take on the same Darkhaven we managed to roll a few times with far less people.

Some massive props to all the Ehmry Bay people involved in the Darkhaven rolls today. You guys were awesome. If we could only have the rest of the server be that good we could compete even with our low pop.

:/. I hate to say this but I’m pretty sure I just saw a Darkhaven thief teleport hack. As if a thief needs it with the number of teleports they have already. Tried to use his Infiltraitor’s Arrow to escape at low hp, but I dodge rolled into range. He then inexplicably teleported sans any animation a couple times in quick succession, stealthed, then returned to kill me.

I’ve seen plenty of thieves and played a thief. It wasn’t shadow shot as he wielded dual daggers and did it away from me (no bunnies either), it wasn’t infiltraitor’s arrow, shadow step, or steal either. No animation, no dark clouds. Looked just like the videos I’ve seen of teleport hacking.

Pretty sad really considering they outnumbered us, were using siege against us (in front of our spawn no less), were heavily abusing thief group invis, and it was just open field late night fighting. Ended my night on a bad note to see such poor sportsmanship capped off by cheating.

NOTE: I’m not saying anything about any server and best I know everyone has played cleanly in everything that counts, though not always wisely.

Oh and I understand why Northern Shiver Peaks goes after our stuff. Less population, lesser upgrades because the towers are traded more, less people to pay for the upgrades, etc. So I really feel like they should disincentive beating up on the small realm for points. You should be aiming for #1, not a comfy second.

Thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Disincentivize-attacking-the-weak-realm-to-farm-points/first#post435497

Because I’m tired of this picture. We can barely fight one realm much less both regularly hitting us at the same time because we are easy pickings, ironically making a self fullfilling prophecy.

Well it doesn’t help that today in EB that NSP would never leave us alone. We were trying to do our best to take some ground from blue and slow the amount of points that they would get in the night yet NSP WOULD NOT LEAVE US ALONE. 12 hours straight. Seriously. It’s like they are happy with second and just want to make sure we can’t come back.

They got their just reward for it. Ebayer’s got tired of it and pushed back hard and Dark hit them at the same time we did. Which shocked me because we are normally in that position. They lost alot of ground, towers, upgrades, and StoneMist. So NSP and Ebay both got hosed in EB and Dark won the day AND the night.

Really Northern Shiverpeaks, you need to get your stuff together. I know Ehmry Bay is easy points for you but if you have any hope of stealing #1 from Darkhaven you gotta play a bit smarter than that. Because Ehmry Bay might be smaller and disorganized but we can still fight and Darkhaven alone is a hard enough match for you without relentlessly provoking us.

Oh and to let you know what I mean. I mean this. We are first target for towers, supply camps, keeps, and even night capping.

No reason you can’t add that to what I have IMO. Since less people means less cash. I’ll edit the original idea. But again it used the 15% threshold to prevent the bonus from getting to big or the bonus from kicking in till a significant difference.

Problem: The current point scheme setup encourages picking on the weakest of the 3 realms to farm points, Essentially instead of becoming a true 3 way battle it becomes 2 sides farming the weak realm and defending their own while largely ignoring the other realm.

This makes sense because they are well rewarded for it in both points and exp/karma/gold and they get kills easier. But ultimately it results in one realm just losing most of it’s population and having a much less fun round each time. People don’t want to play when they are constantly over matched by both sides AND both sides focus on farming them. It’s especially disheartening when you make a successful defense against all odds to have the other realm, who also outnumbers you, take another tower. Challenging to hold both even if you are 100% competitive, impossible if you are not.

Solution: Scale all rewards off of the point differential between realms. This would work both ways, giving less points for hitting weaker realms and more points for hitting stronger realms. Also scale the upgrade costs with realms that are behind getting a discount.

Mechanics: We want good matchups so I think we can agree that a 15% threshold should be met before any scaling. Past that you scale at a linear rate. Lets not get too crazy and make that a 1% differential to 0.5% reward scaling.

So for instance the current score in Farkhaven v Ehmrybay v Northern Shiverpeaks is approx 73k, 60k, 37k respectively.

In this case the following would happen.

Darkhaven would get 1.5% less points and rewards for hitting Shiverpeaks and 25% less point and rewards for hitting Ehmry Bay. Darkhaven would pay full price for upgrades.

Shiverpeaks conversely would get 1.5% more points and rewards for hitting Darkhaven and 19% less points and rewards for hitting Ehmry Bay. Shiverpeaks would pay 1.5% less for upgrades.

Ehmry Bay however would get 25% increased points and rewards for hitting Darkhaven and 19% increased points and rewards for hitting Shiverpeaks. Ehmry bay would pay 19% less for upgrades.

In closing: As you can see not only does this encourage both stronger realms hitting each other more it also encourages the little guys to stick it out and fight. End of the day I just want lots of good battles. I don’t think two realms farming a third realm that can barely stave off one of them achieves that near as much. I want 3 active and fighting realms willing to hit each other at any time.

Yeah, try being the 3rd place realm that never gets to upgrade it’s stuff because both sides see easy takes compared to each others fully upgraded towers they got while nobody else was on lol.

I agree it’s our fault for not being able to field the people, but the game also encourages farming the weaker of the 3 realms for points instead of actually fighting the stronger realms.

Cyric.7485:

Ya know, I used to just kind of shrug at threads like this until about 10 minutes ago. I’m in WvW 1v1ing with a ranger (I’m a thief), he gets the jump on me and really lays into me. In fact, he almost burst my 16k down before I could reach him, but I managed to use Hide in Shadows. So I get to him, we start duking it out and I manage to put him into the downed state. I have like 2k HP left and I begin the eternally annoying process of stomping someone… wouldn’t you know, he puts me into down state AND kills me from his own downed state.

I’m sorry, but that’s total bull if you ask me. You shouldn’t have to kill someone TWICE in one match for ONE victory, this isn’t Street Fighter. Not to mention, I put him into the downed state about 2-3 seconds before I went down, kinda makes sense that I would come out on top since neither of us could heal and he would be lower on HP from being in the downed state longer than me.

Overall, I support the removal of the downed state from PvP, it’s just an obnoxious mechanic.

Actually that depends on builds same as any fight. Plus, PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE. Isn’t is BS that he started with a ridiculous amount of damage on you and yet you downed him first? Why the hell would you try to stomp with no health left knowing rangers have an interrupt? Especially if his pet was still up.

I’m sorry, But you lost that fight fair and square because YOU screwed up. You should have hit him hard instead of trying to stomp, but you failed to make the right decision.