Guild Wars 2

I don’t see how these are comparable at all. The mass population of PvPers are casual. Features that separate casual from hardcore are exactly what they want (i.e. Custom arenas and paid tournies)

A tPvP ranking system isn’t nearly as much of a necessity as keeping the casual from the hardcore for obvious reasons.

Irascible.8210:

Sezu.8564:

You’ve obviously missed the point. I was laughing at…

“its about winning cause you did a great job, not about the number next to your name on the scoreboard. And its not like glory does anything but give you some cosmetic items”

because this is not the general, pug only point-of-view

I don’t get it. The score next to your name doesn’t mean much in terms of a player’s contribution to the winning of the match.

That’s exactly the point. No one cares about winning in pugs, they care about the score next to their name. Try to keep up please.

Irascible.8210:

It’s an interesting mechanic that can actually be advantageous.

“Just assume for one second that you don’t know everything.”

You’re being incredibly hypocritical and ignoring (or oblivious to) the facts at hand. What are you even implying when you say it’s an interesting mechanic? The downed state? Rallying? Reviving? Sure, it’s a big part of the game, but you’re trying to fool yourself by saying there’s some kind of strategic advantage to it when there isn’t at all.

In actuality, the only “advantageous” thing about the ele downed state is NOT playing an ele to begin with. You sir, are a fool.

You’ve obviously missed the point. I was laughing at…

“its about winning cause you did a great job, not about the number next to your name on the scoreboard. And its not like glory does anything but give you some cosmetic items”

because this is not the general, pug only point-of-view

Irascible.8210:

So you want every class to be the same and have all the same advantages, abilities, and capabilities? Why, yes, I guess it would be balanced if everyone were exactly kittening the same. Maybe stop blowing off the “L2P” people and actually consider that you might need to see this in a different light. Just assume for one second that you don’t know everything.

LOL? You can’t be serious right now. Finishing people off, reviving, and rallying are such HUGE aspects of the meta right now. There’s no denying it. Eles currently have a handicap on this aspect of the game. Comparitively, this is like a basketball player only being allowed to play with 1 hand.

I didn’t ask for everyone to be exactly the same either durp. Nice assumption.

Edit – inb4 hurr durr the problem isn’t the problem, the person is the problem.

Fantom.9217:

Ele are the 2nd best bunker prof in the game, imo.

Pair them with anyone else on a point and that point will NEVER be overturned unless the entire enemy team shows up (in which case they’ll lose the rest of the map).

I’d actually argue they are the best bunker prof in the game. No other bunker offers the same supportive capabilities.

Or from a programmers perspective, highly likely.

100% sure it’s not a hack, as I’ve been on both sides of it. It’s a server side issue, hush you.

ryston.7640:

There are a number of viable elementalist builds, most using staff or scepter mainhand.

The best for tournaments is, i argue, staff tank support.

Regardless of other details, all of the viable ele builds go 30 arcana. Most go 20 or 30 water as well.

While this is a dissapointing lack of diversity, its really not bad when you compare it to other classes.

I don’t go 30 into arcana :] If you think my build isn’t viable I’d gladly accept a 5v5 challenge. There is plenty of diversity, but most people are looking for these “cookie cutter” builds when they dont really exist. I literally change my build every match depending on the professions/combos I’m playing against.

LOL at all the people saying “This isn’t a solo game. L2P”

Being a team oriented game doesn’t justify eles being a free stomp upon down when literally all other professions (except ranger, I think?) aren’t. It has nothing to do with being a team game.

What a joke.

Not even going to read this wall of text, if you truly think the game is already balanced you’re not living in the real world.

It just so happens that sPvP is objective based, therefore there will be a need for a few particular roles. The same goes for just about ANY other objective based sport (ruling out boxing, mma, etc)

Let’s take soccer for example…

You have players trying to score goals (strikers, forwards, attackers, etc), players trying to defend from goals (defenders, sweepers, goalies, etc), and players moving the ball cross-field (midfield, left/ring wings, etc). There’s really only 3 roles, and that’s in a 11v11 game! Take any other sport and you’ll realize just how few roles there really are.

There’s really no difference between those and this. You have players to defend points, players to capture points/map objectives (Chieftan, for example), and players to roam between points you already have captured. There are only 3 roles because that’s all the GAME TYPE requires.

Also, the whole Holy Trinity thing is silly…. Come on now…

Eles aren’t the only class capable of providing huge might stacks

LOL Upzia, are you serious right now? Troll post…

Shhh. Stop giving people ideas. If they fix the ele downed state you’ll have no one left to rally your whole downed team!

You’ll actually have to think and move in PvE now, enjoy the diversity!

I think the deeper issue here isn’t the point system and how points are awarded. The problem lies in the fact that human beings are selfish. If we just took the team point totals and evenly distributed the points 5-ways, we’d see a much more cooperative, coordinated team effort.

I’ll agree that most classes have at least one viable build, but mesmers surpass all other classes at almost every role.

Edit: Let me add that there are no real counters for mesmers as well. If you deny it, I’ll supply some facts later, but I’m headed to bed now and too tired.

If they made a 5v5 sPvP format, there would be even less players in the tournament mode. Once paid tournaments are up and running, all the “pro” team will be playing those. This will make free tPvP much more pug friendly.

All in due time.

The single best profession in the current meta is the Mesmer. High damage, easy escapes, amazing elites, good downed state, and don’t forget ridiculous team utility.

As for the other “best” professions, it really depends on what kind of role you’re performing.

CeCaKonVeu.5734:

You make a valid point as its easier to keep graveyard while dodging around. But i wanted to point out something else …

Maybe for a tanky guardian its convenient to dodge inside the graveyard ….
For a glasscannon build id rather run around the quarry or the waterfall where i can break los every few meters … hence i said i had to dodge here and there to avoid about all incoming damage while moa’d.
If i couldnt dodge i would die in less than 5 seconds, moa’d or not.

I’m not talking about glass cannons here. I’m talking about full on defensive/supportive builds that get killed in 5 seconds because you don’t have access to any of your skills (not even utilities for stun breaks, srslywtf).

LoS is not an option on most cap points.

CeCaKonVeu.5734:

Using moa on a bunker with %% block rate is not that great too …

Just an example, in a spvp game i played earlier there were 2-3 mesmers in other team, i play mesmer too, glasscannon build.

I got moa’d once, and i just ran around the spot (graveyard in legacy of foefire) dodging here and there and didnt really took any but random damage.
Later on, I got moa’d again and i dodged away from the fight area as 2 of them were following me, had to use a heal at the end of moa, more or less like any kiting away move, then went back into the battle.
Near the end of the game, I got cornered by guardian/mesmer/rogue/elem .. and i got moa’d at 30% life or whatever and I did DIE !!
omg moa is op ? or just a not so useful moa on an already dead target at 4v1 ?

Guaranteed kill in that case, yes of course .. Im not saying moa is useless, but not as good as it seems at first glance.

First off, if you aren’t bringing boon removal as an offensive roamer you’re doing it wrong.

Second, you chose the absolute largest cap point to make a case on. Graveyard gives you so much room to run around and still be on point (which I think is absolutely broken, as with good teams once you have it it’s impossible to lose). Obviously on points where the radius is about 1.5 a dodge roll, Moa morph is MUCH more effective.

ArmageddonAsh.6430

so the ability is broken because you are teamed up against? surely that is called team work, if you need help call out for it…

No, the ability is broken because literally no other combination of professions besides mesmer + (anything), can take a point from a bunker in that short of time DUE TO that single skill.

A bunker’s job is to hold a point so your team CAN help you. You can’t do that if you only last 5 seconds. Like I said, please get some tPvP experience before you attempt to argue against the fact there of.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

You make out that it is 100% effective when it can be dodged and stuff if you die from it well then thats your fault if losing a point is more important then being able to come back 10second later out of Moa and retake it then well in my opinion thats not the abilities fault thats yours.

plus i dont know a single Mesmer that uses it – i have used it ONCE before replacing it with Time Warp

Plus seeing as how OP Bunker Guardians are they SHOULD have a counter…

For the record, I play engi and staff ele bunkers. Not a guardian.

The problem isn’t so much me vs. a mesmer. It’s me vs. a mesmer and his teammate. I literally die within a few seconds because I can’t use any of my abilities. Also, trying to “retake” a point as a bunker build against 2 is nearly impossible. This ability is too strong (relative to other classes) and there’s no denying it.

As a bunker, even the worst of us should be able to hold a point for five seconds versus two.

nldixon.8514:

If you’re dying while you’re moa’d you’re doing it wrong. I haven’t died as a moa in quite a while.

Not to mention that moa is probably the worst of the Mesmer elites. A 10 second ability that doesn’t even keep the target from dodging or running away versus a skill that gives quickness to EVERYONE in the area or a mass invisibility?

Most of the time I get moa’d it’s by some Mesmer that’s a button mashing goon and uses it whenever it’s up. Generally when I’m almost already dead anyway or it’s a three or four on one fight.

You obviously don’t play tPvP, your opinion is therefore invalid.

As a bunker(btw who even termed it that?), your job is to stay ON the point. MoA morph gives you 2 choices: Stay on the point and die because you can’t use any abilities, or run away and lose the point. No other profession has an elite ability that comes close to this effectiveness against bunker builds. Mesmers already have enough broken mechanics in regards to tPvP. Why should they ALSO be able to so easily take a point. This is just one (extremely powerful) instance of how good this ability is.

Edit – INB4 hurr durr L2Dodge newb. Most of the time they cast it from stealth and so there are literally no visual cues.

Play tPvP. Problem solved.

nldixon.8514:

Can’t really spam 100B either, since it has a CD.

Implying a 6 sec CD (traited) means it’s not spammable…. oh you…

Stop playing hot join. I promise you this is rarely an issue in tPvP. As an elementalist, I love playing against teams with these kind of builds because it’s very rare I will actually die to them.

There’s quite a big difference between calling for buffs/nerfs and fixing broken mechanics. If you fail to see this, and think this game is already balanced you’re sadly mistaken.

I didn’t say 4 mesmers were good, I said 2 for a reason. Throw in a guardian, ele/engi, and a theif and you’re unstoppable.

I know this because I’ve seen this and done this. It’s a broken mechanic that has no counter.

Are you taking about the scoreboard? If so who cares. They player that runs between the points, killing people while also capping will always have the most.

I’d like to hear your counter for having 2 mesmers use portals to indefinitely teleport their full team between 2 points.

This is a broken mechanic, especially in a territory based game.

Vigil.3408:

Guardians aren’t as ‘pet rock’ as people make out. I’ve tried to play a defensive spec Guardian for several weeks now, and I’ve come to realise that we’re essentially useless. The only thing that particular Guardian set up is good for is defending a King of the Hill type point from another melee class; and even then it’s only a battle of attrition. Any other class will eventually kill a Guardian.

We have no control over condition removal. Yes, we can remove conditions but it’s completely random and is entirely hit and miss. Mesmers, Necromancers, Rangers; condition based ranged classes immediately trump a defensive spec Guardian 100% of the time. We can not remove your conditions. We can not close the gap to melee you. We will die.

There have been very few times I have ever said this, but whoever genuinely believes Guardians are “OP” in any sense of the term really needs to take a good hard look at themselves and what they’re doing. Devensive Guardians are extremely easy to counter, especially in Tournament play where teams are coordinated.

Yes, it’s true. If you build completely defensive why should you be able to beat those classes? You’re built for defense and support, obviously you’re not going on a killing spree here. You will EVENTUALLY die. The problem is you can hold 2 people at one point for over a minute easily, and when teams only have 5 players that puts the rest of your team at a severe disadvantage. I’m okay with the guardians being tanky, and filling that role. I’m not okay with how good they are at doing it.

Also, if you’re denying the fact that guardians are OP you’re just a plain moron. There’s a reason you see them on every tPvP team.

Zachariel.5463:

shrewd.5319:

I don’t understand all this crying about most professions. The only 2 professions that need nerfs in all aspects are guardians and mesmers. All others are just fine.

Guardians are fun to kill with my mesmer, Mesmers are fun to kill with my ranger (and I main mesmer) so no sure why you think those two need nerfs. I know how to counter mesmers as I play one so I have no problem. No clue why so many people come to complain about not doing any research on how to counter a class. There is a reason you can switch your utility skills out of combat. If you see a group or a lone opponent switch your skills fast to counter them. If you don’t have time just do your best.

Hurr durr, have you even tried to take out a Guardian with anything besides a mesmer? It’s not about knowing how to counter a class, some(most) classes aren’t capable of that in the first place.

I’d say level each up to 20 and see which one feels better and fits your playstyle. That’s plenty of time to get a feel for the professions.

I’d suggest Warrior or Theif then, as my warrior kills mobs twice as fast as my elementalist.

“DPS class”

Wrong game.

I’m not sure if this build is for PvE or PvP, but you’re not going to last long (even with perma swiftness/protection) if you’re not rolling at least one cantrip.

Kyros… man… it’s seriously time to stop posting… you sound like a whiny kid now.