Guild Wars 2

Eles have amazing condi cleanse and knockdowns and knockbacks. Necro doesn’t own them that easily.

Yes, the MMR adjustment of Glicko2 only looks at your win or loss relative to the MMR of the opposing team. If you “adjusted it higher”, then your MMR would not take as much of a hit for losing.

Solstice.1097:

i just think the system should give you an increased predicted chance of winning based on how many people are in your party.

That makes sense to me.

Your MMR may not go down to any significant extent if you lose a game that the matcher predicts you will lose.

William C.6195:

Silentshoes.1805:

“What makes you think it’s based on team score not kills/caps/decaps/point defenses?”

Here you go:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

What, you mean this bit?:

The metrics used during [the match making second phase] include: rating, rank, party size, profession, ladder position, and dishonor.

Other than that, I can’t find anywhere that it explicitly states that previous match scores are used, other than is working out leaderboard points, which are entirely separate from MMR.

It’s in the first section, about Ratings. That’s your MMR rating. It is not based on your personal score in a match. It uses the Glicko2 System:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glicko_rating_system

“What makes you think it’s based on team score not kills/caps/decaps/point defenses?”

Here you go:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

Flumek,

Great. I look forward to it.

NeXeD,

Thanks for the tips!

I am enjoying learning the Terrormancer.

Are there some experienced sPvP terrormancers here who can share the basic attack and defense rotations?

When you are attacked, what is your first, best rotation?

Is offense the best defense? Lay on some bleeds fast and fear them to let it “cook”?

OK thanks, Justin.

What do you think about this:

Your MMR changes based on whether your team performs better or worse than expected.

The expectation is based primarily on the MMRs of each team!

So…if the MMRs are inaccurate, the prediction is wrong, and the MMRs are adjusted incorrectly.

But the average players without a team would be playing each other in more balanced matches.

Arantheal,

Many thanks. I just want to try it and most effectively see its strengths and limitation.

You have provided a great service by sharing your knowledge.

robertul.3679:

They should add 2 options when you queue:
1)fast queue – limited matchmaking, priority on time
2)slow queue -superior matchmaking but taking a bit longer
This way people can decide if they want to wait longer for a better matchup or play as soon as possible.
Everybody happy!
Cons: Given how the devs work this might be a feature in 2020.

+100.

This is the fair way to do it.

GhOst.4019:

The ONLY people complaining about this is the SoloQ players and again, the minority.

And the talented, dedicated, high MMR people who do not enjoy shooting “grey mobs”.

They hate it as well.

Only the high-MMR, organized “lawl teams” enjoy a blowout for more than a match or two. They must feel like they are talented or something crushing players who are new or clueless.

And how do you know the solo players are the minority? That’s your opinion.

Maybe Justin can give us some stats on this.

brannigan.9831:

Yes, because your average player has all the time in the world to sit around waiting for a match. I don’t want to come across too rudely but a lot of us are adults with lives and limited time to play. We are the majority. You the are the minority the person that has time to plays this game for hours every day and has the time to sit around waiting for 15-20 minutes plus to get one game. Thank god A-net doesn’t actually listen to people like you.

brannigan,

Are you serious?

You really advocate blowout matches rather than waiting for a challenging matchup?

brannigan.9831:

The whole idea of a carry class is over-rated and really an excuse making tool for poor/delusional players ie if I just would play X class I would be doing a lot better on average.

I started the thread to get some ideas about what class would help more in the nightmare matchups that the non-matcher now throws at a solo’er after a few minutes in the queue.

yummcha.9456:

1) Lose 3 games, but still gained 1 point? (lol??? close games maybe?). Your MMR is now below what your true MMR is.

yummcha,

Their MMR would not go down for the loss if the matcher expected them to lose. And even more so if they made the game close.

You are not understanding how MMR works.

When you play a higher MMR team and lose, your MMR is not changed. Especially if the matcher has seen you in a lot of games and is “confident” about your MMR.

Look, here is how the matcher currently works:

1) Try to find a good match for a team for a few minutes.

2) Put anyone against the team after a few minutes.

That’s the problem. Right there.

It’s absolutely obvious.

Make the matcher wait longer. Maybe much longer.

I am learning Turret Engineer.

What has been determined to be the best way to place them. And what kinds of turrets?

Also wondering about condition clearing when a necro hits a turret engineer again and again.

Becka Williams.4978:

Justin ODell.9517:

Becka Williams.4978:

Wasn’t this what the whole pvp revamp was supposed to do? Why do we have to wait for another revamp to fix the problems with this revamp?

We’re like to iterate and continue to improve. Something we can do much faster with the back-end servers.

So, all we have to do is endure crappy matchmaking till you get around to fixing it? Fun.

Well, they did say this is all a test season to iron out bugs.

We’re all guinea pigs here.

Interesting, that player disappeared from the 1000 now.

But there is at least another with high number of games and very few points.

insanemaniac.2456:

Justin ODell.9517:

Silentshoes.1805:

Would median MMR make more sense?

No, not necessarily. E.g. 1200, 1215, 1210, 1240, 1600, the mean is 1293, but the median is 1400.

um that median is 1215 :X

Yup.
And the mean is 1293. Median is lower.

http://www.alcula.com/calculators/statistics/median/

Lopez.7369:

E-sports are never going to happen if the game scares away casual players who are needed to create critical mass.

This discussion already happened two years ago. It’s what makes this so frustrating. I thought this issue was settled. The PvP matchmaking revamp actually took this game two years back.

I agree but I think this may be a decision handed down from management above the PvP team. Just surmising.

Teams must have games even if mostly low level soloers are in the queue. It’s the law. Soloers are strongly “encouraged” to form teams and get Teamspeak.

Solo Q does not form teams needed for ESports. I believe this is the word from the head office.

Amir.1570:

On topic though: Doesn’t matter what you play, apparently if you play a lot more than other people you’ll get top rank. Doesn’t matter how bad you are at the game.

And when I mean bad I mean kinda like how people who play Mesmer but probably will fail harder if they tried 100b Warrior back when it was considered UP.

Not true. Look at Rank 872 on the ladder right now. 45 games. 5 points.

And look at this player (#872) 45 games, and only 5 points.

It’s not just playing a lot. He/she played a LOT.

Rank 872 // 5 pts //<player name> 15 // 30 // 33.33%

Thanks, Cat. Well, he must be helping the team perform better than expected. Hence his points.

And how were the games you soloed?

Justin,

And how well is the Expected Win function performing against real previous game scores/win data as you back-simulate the games that took place?

Would median MMR make more sense?

You make it sound like it is easy for a team of noobs to get 200 points while they are being slaughtered by an experienced team.

That ladder grid is meant to even the playing field between noobs and highly experienced teams. Your idea that noobs should be penalized for failing to win impossible matches makes no sense.

All they need to do is set the matcher to be strict about only putting 5 solos against another 5 solos, each team with a similar average MMR…and an adjustment if there is a wide spread in the MMRs

That’s the old matcher. And allow people to set how long THEY are willing to wait for a match.

Justin ODell.9517:

Silentshoes.1805:

“One of the biggest problems is that we simply aren’t messaging any of the details to you in-game”

Ummm.

Like your odds of victory, what score you have to get to get N points, etc..

Ok. I see now. Yeah those are my top suggestions.

You can play a lot of games and lose. No points for that.

I like the way it gives points to players who perform better than expected. And gives less points to people who win because their opponents are less experienced. Like having brackets. Or like getting no XP for killing easy, gray mobs in PvE.

Amir,

I am not sure what you are saying. If mesmers are so easy to play effectively against skilled teams, as you say, then why are there generally not mesmers on top teams?

Prairie dogs hide and pop up here and there to see if the coast is clear.

Yes, as a necro I get slaughtered if I have no team strong enough to keep them busy while I “set up” things and several come at me right away.

I’d love it if a Mesmer were #1. I love playing my mesmers (The Crew, That Wreckin’ Crew) but it is such a high skill cap against teams that are experienced.

“One of the biggest problems is that we simply aren’t messaging any of the details to you in-game”

Ummm.

Archaon.9524:

New Leaderboards = Farm

Pretty epic for a game that is tryharding to be esportz lol

Maybe pretty smart if it gets new players into sPvP long term.

I think if they throw you against a team of top MMR players who know each others’ rotations and roles, all on Teamspeak lawling about and streaming it on Twitch (I have seen this)…

If they throw you and some low-level players against these guys, again and again, and you are able help your team get 200 points more times than not, you deserve to rise in the ladder.

And if you do it a LOT, consistently, yeah, you should be on top.

“,,,but eventually it gets overshadowed by other scoring rules (like the age score, which is used to compensate for long queue times) and they all dump into the same match.”

I.e. matchmaking is only used for the first few minutes. Then off you go into whatever.

Small queues. That’s the issue.

With so few players in the queue, no rating is too low, I suppose.

Shout out to #1 Drunk Possum.

What’s your build? Are you soloing at all?

butch.8136:

Played around 10 games, all decent to great games.

Were you solo all those games, butch? We’re generally talking about solo players here.

Question for the experts who have carried weak teams repeatedly:

What class and build helps carry a weak team most effectively?

What class would you avoid?

Justin ODell.9517:

masskillerxploit.2165:

like, there isnt enough soloq players to match up? at a given time or what.. this is severely annoying.

Out of your 26 matches in the last 24 hours, and excluding the ones where you were with a party, all but two of your matches have been all solos. You even won one of those.

Are you sure it’s the pre-mades that are bothering you? Is there something else we could do with matchmaking to improve the quality?

How many matches was he all solo?

It could be that the average MMR of the solo teams he was matched with are incorrect and on the low side, relative to his MMR. Maybe his is incorrect on the high side. Team compositions could also confound the matcher.

Guard.6751:

RANK 7 POINTS 27 Matt.7248 Vis Viress WINS 16 LOSSES 24 40.00%

I don’t care how many matches you played or how well you played or what the odds of your team winning were… if you have a 40% win percentage you do NOT deserve to be ranked high on the leaderboard!

You might want to think that through a little deeper.

Aaron, if the top players have a team they play with, they should only play other teams of similar skill, in their own brackets.

As long as the system is going to put inexperienced players against top teams, win/loss is meaningless and nothing to be boasting about if you are on a top, experienced team.