Showing Posts For Silidus.7985:
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I’m pretty worried about this too. I realized after doing several runs of AC that I just suck out loud at Dungeons and this new change has me feeling like I just might have to never try a dungeon again. I do really want the COF armor for my Charr Warrior (Because they look really cool in COF Armor) so I’m going to try a different approach this time. I realize I sucked at AC because I had no idea what I was doing. I joined a public group and just tried to follow their lead, I was able to get enough tokens to get a Sword/Shield for my Guardian, but it wasn’t fun at all for me.
This time, I’m going to try watching videos of the paths before I ever go in and reading strategy guides for each path on the Wiki. I’m not sure if this change will exclude less experienced players or not, but ultimately I think it will. I’m willing to do more research and try to get better, but I honestly don’t think most people will. With this new system, people are only going to want the best players they can get and ultimately that will cause newer players to filter away from dungeons leaving only the most skilled of players that do them. I’m going to try and do it right though and learn what I’m doing and see if I can become a better dungeon player, but I’ll admit that the new change has me wondering if maybe I would be better off finding something else to do.
No one wants to be that ‘one guy’ that hinders his/her team. Before, if I died, I would have to respawn, repair and make my way back.. the punishment was on me. Now I cost my whole team and that honestly kind of sucks.
If you’re ever doing AC (or anything in general) don’t be afraid to ask questions before a boss. Everyone was a noob once, and lots of people have experience with a number of different classes at this point. Most would be glad to help you or give you a tip or two if asked.
Personally, I love to take new players into dungeons (AC in particular because I view it as the learning dungeon). It gives me a chance to improve my support skills (using skills that save the whole team from damaging attacks instead of just myself) and helps build the dialog over the course of the dungeon. Group games are WAY more fun if you actually acknowledge that you’re in a group and communicate!
Blah, blah blah, I cant farm tokens, karma and so, blah, blah, blah – isnt it supposed to be a challenge?
I don’t see any challenge at all in it. What’s the point anymore of doing a dungeon that will require you an hour to get ~40 silver and spent 11+ on armor repairs ?
Really challenging and fun…. not !
The challenge would be to do it without spending money in repairs… that’s why its called a ‘challenge’.
…. So far I see ONE, perhaps two SUCK UPs … who is not talking about the INSTANCES, but FRACTALS … and a few Elitists … and MANY MANY MANY Complaints by the MAJORITY who hate what has been done.
The new Elitist attitude is what will NOW come into play … seriously, no one said it should be easy, it certainly was not easy before, but … at least before you could see people in the Map asking for an instance … spent over an hour on COE map today, not ONE request for ANY path … never mind not one person in Lions Arch bothering to ask for ANY Explorer mode, when I was levelling up skills on yet another char.
The WORST change EVER … not a “great” one … The game WAS INTENDED for the CASUAL Player to get somewhere, not be kicked from groups by elitists because they cannot cope with what has been done. The game WAS INTENDED for ANY form of group to be able to make it … NOT a SPECIAL group that HAS to be the RIGHT Classes and specs for it to now work.
When Guilds who have 100-300 plus players can barely find 5 people to run dungeons with, … when people mostly refuse to PUG because they shriek “Noob” … “Moron” … etc at people who cannot manage things they way that one wants, … when no one wants people who are not on TS/VOIP programs in the group … but accepted it before … now its going to be even worse. It was hard enough to find a group before, now it will be worse. A horrible change for the FEW elitists who do NOT keep the game going, its the “grunts” who do … and lets not even think of the small guilds who were not having it easy before (who put in hours and hours of work to get all the in-guild politics/war/economics etc to max level) … who will now just collapse, because of these changes.
Thank you for failing the MAJORITY to pander to the few Elitists who already have their legendaries through whatever path they took … getting the grunts to grind for them, taking proceeds from their large guilds … buying their gold … so that they can perhaps cope every now and then, who will all throw up their hands soon and go “I am bored again” … just like they did in WOW and every other game they passed through briefly on the way to the next one. It is those “grunts” who stay and persevere who should be pandered to a little more, not the Elitist few.
Dear ‘Casual’ players. I am one of you, I play for limited engagements split between job, kids, house, spouse, and everything else life throws around randomly when you really just want to play.
PLEASE!!! Stop associated ‘Casual’ with ‘BAD’… you are not bad players, you do not have the time to grind excessively or devote 5 hours per night 5 days a week to a game, but that does NOT make you bad players.
Learn your class, learn your abilities, and watch bosses and mobs to see what they do. When you are playing, play the game, when your not, THIS game will wait for you.
Guild wars 2 is very casual friendly. Dungeons are small, taking 20-60 minutes, can be done whenever you want, with little or no outside grinding or prep, or long quest lines to unlock. Dungeon ‘end game’ is unlocked early. Explore modes are unlocked as soon as you complete the ‘casual story’ mode, and are available for you to try on a weekend without the need to grind a character up to 80 or get top notch gear.
GEAR is friendly to casuals, there are not long grinds to get BiS gear required for dungeons. Exotics, Rares, Greens and Blues differ only very slightly in power, and are not the major ‘gear cliff’ they are in other MMOs.
So again, please please please stop with this ‘I am a causal player, so I am a bad player, nerf everything but me’ argument. It isn’t true. You can play this game well… I believe in you.
Also to everyone complaining about the ‘lvl 80 scaling nerf’, please remember this is a GOOD THING. Since 80s are scaled harshly down to the appropriate dungeon level, there is little to no difference between taking an 80 in full exotics, to taking a lvl 35 in full greens.
This is a GREAT change, it lets lower levels get in on the action and removes some of the elitist ‘80 only’ mentality when it comes to pug groups.
And to everyone complaining about ‘not being able to play how you want with a full team of 5 condition build necros’. The game was never intended for this, they never said you could easily clear all content no matter what you did (really? you wanted that?). They stated that you could clear with a carefully built team of any class combination… so 5 necros will still work, as long as some are built support, some control, and some dps… THAT is how it is supposed to work.
Just did another AC EXP run last night, and I ABSOLUTELY LOVE these changes. Doing Kohl was amazing knowing reinforcements would not be ‘death hopping’ in half way through the fight.
Every skill mattered, we cared about each other and made sure everyone stayed up, and everyone did whatever they could to play as a team and mitigate the scorpion wire for other players (walls/reflects/stability). All in all it was an AWESOME team experience.
Thanks ANET for fixing dungeons.
I have to agree with increasing the leash distance on trash mobs. Sure, if the group has stealth and uses it skillfully then they should be allowed to skip trash packs, but for the most part just running through is a little lame.
Dungeons are supposed to be a thematic experience, they should be challenging, fun, and epic. What we have now boils down to the following.
Boss: “Muahhaha you will never stop me”
Group: “Hi we’re here”
Boss: “WTF, how did you get past my army?”
Group: “Oh those guys? yeah we totally just ran at normal speed through your stronghold till the guards got bored and went back to their posts.”
Bos: “…”I like to think that about the dungeons, but the novelty wears off once you repeat the dungeon enough for the sake of generating income or collecting tokens. You already know the layout by heart and you know how to beat the mobs easily. The reality is they have high HP pools, do not block progress, and do not drop anything really worth the time. Also if stealth idea was the only way to skip, everyone would only take thieves.
Like the others have said, make your own group or join others that share your playstyle. Many of us are at different stages of our GW2 lifespan. Some of us want to earn money/tokens. Some of us want to savor the novelty of exploration. There is nothing wrong with either and it’s our own personal pursuit.
That is a good point, but I think the ‘quick route for tokens/gold’ argument is a little over-used. The number of tokens you need for a legendary or full set of gear is pretty negligible, people just need to learn to take their time or switch it up with a different dungeon now and again.
Also, there are several professions that can grant AoE stealth, so I don’t think it would be a major issue as long as you had at least one in your group.
That said, I think a quick route to bosses would be a good thing for experienced groups, but maybe work this in a little more thematically or make it an actual choice for the players, such as a jumping puzzle route through the dungeon that bypasses trash (but requires skill and may be slower for some players), or tie certain abilities on the boss to some of the trash packs, so skipping means a harder boss fight.
I have to agree with increasing the leash distance on trash mobs. Sure, if the group has stealth and uses it skillfully then they should be allowed to skip trash packs, but for the most part just running through is a little lame.
Dungeons are supposed to be a thematic experience, they should be challenging, fun, and epic. What we have now boils down to the following.
Boss: “Muahhaha you will never stop me”
Group: “Hi we’re here”
Boss: “WTF, how did you get past my army?”
Group: “Oh those guys? yeah we totally just ran at normal speed through your stronghold till the guards got bored and went back to their posts.”
Bos: “…”
Then maybe they should have focused on fixing the glitches and the farming. Going though walls and ceilings 3 in 1 runs. It only takes a few days of an update like this to push paying customers to a new game.
Fickle people are fickle, and will come back when they realize that everyone else is still having fun.
If you want an example of a game that listened to its player base, check out “Tabula Rasa”.
Other than that, enjoy the game, have some fun, and always be open to learn new encounters and teach them to others.
And you know, I’ve actually helped many lower level and inexperienced groups with dungeons. I’m not an elitist jerk because that’s my personality. It’s the only way for me to make dungeon content at least a little bit fun right now ;-)
nicbet.1820,
I do understand there is times everyone wants an experienced team. I have been playing on-line games sents dail-up with Quake 2. I am no super pro. I pretty much hold my own. But there seems to be some players that think everyone should know from the first run in exp mode you should know everything and there shouldnt be a learning curve. Just gets really old seeing some ppl telling others they need to learn to play. Everyone in this world is diffrent and have diffrent skills. So your really good at video games. That doesnt give you the right to knock other players that need longer time to learn.I dont really care about if there is waypoints. It does make it a challenge. Just saying that with some of the heavy hitting Bosses there needs to be some give somewhere for the lesser skilled players. I waited 2yrs for GW2 to be released. Just hate to see it die because an upgrade that doesnt make sents.
JUST add team chat would fix it all. That way under skilled players can learn on the fly and not die so much without being flamed all the time. All these elite players that cry about how easy the dungeons are. I bet everyone of them are on vent with there guildies. Sure its alot easier when u can talk and explain while playing. But not everyone wants to join ur guild and get on vent and hear all ur drama all the time.
This updated was just uncalled for at this time. Maybe if they would have released part 2 first instead of part 1 first. Someone got it backwards.
I have to disagree with that, far better to have one month of ‘hard’ dungeons that can be tested and tweaked by the player base (both players figuring it out and devs getting data about what doesn’t work, but should have), instead of a month of face-rolling dungeons with NO data because everyone won no matter what they did (and what they did would always be the laziest, fastest thing possible).
TL… but still read it
I am a casual player, I have a wife, kids job, house…. and 5 seconds of time to learn how to dodge.
The problem your trying to address is that “There are elitist Jerks in the world that don’t know how to have fun with a challenge”. The answer to this is NOT to remove the challenge, but to bring your own positive attitude and try to encourage that in others.
Stop, Communicate, Laugh…… (and dodge)
Or at least, give us spells to pick up players with a reasonable cast time (5s?). The only reason players WP rushed in the first place was because ressing is so screwed up that just reviving at WP and running back in was the only viable way.
Lots of classes have these already.. and you can move while you cast them.
Res-ing already goes faster with more people doing it, and the res bar does not decrease (for fully KO’d players), so you can easily start a res, dodge an attack, then get back to resing and you will get them up eventually.
A: You can’t dodge right away from rezzing, at least it’s never worked for me. You have to stand first and then dodge, by which time you’ve been hit by an attack which is probably going to 1 or 2 shot you.
B: Then that’s at least 2 people not dpsing and getting hit without being able to block or retaliate. Plus the person on the ground who is left staring at a screen and feeling bad because they’re weighing down the party rather than rezzing at a wp and running back to help.To me, that sounds like the opposite of fun.
I agree with Rizzo. I am not a “tank” type guardian, I try to be more support. Yet the AI of the enemies seems to aggro on me all the time, and I drop far more often than I probably should. I feel bad dropping and laying there like a useless pile of rags while my party is now without my boons and healing. Plus if they try to rez me, chances are they die themselves.
So am I forced to re-spec my guardian to be more “tank” style and less support? It certainly feels that way…but I don’t want to do that! This update is forcing me to play in a way that I don’t want to (I certainly hope that wasn’t the intent).
I guess I’ll play on alts for a while since my main Guardian is now wrongly-specced, and I’m not 100% sure what to do about it at this point.
Hard to give specific advice, but I will say that if you are a dedicated ‘supporter’ then you need to make sure that your team has some dedicated (or at least capable) ‘controllers’.
As a supporter you need to hang WAY back from the fight to prevent pulling aggro, and sometimes you will anyway so tricks like shield bubble, line of warding etc help a lot.
I am seeing a great deal of stuff on the forums complaining about getting attacked while resing. Honestly, that SHOULD be hard, so plan for it. Guardian reflect wall is a great tool when trying to res a downed or KO’d ally. Just plop it down and you can ignore projectiles and safely res for a little bit.
I can tell you that the first time through the Grawl Fractal, the final fire boss wiped our entire team (except me), but I was able to dodge, manuver and shield my way to resing 2 other members, who (with me still holding aggro) managed to get the other two up for an absolutely epic win that FELT REALLY GOOD!
Pretty much every class has a great toolbox, if you’re having trouble with a particular aspect of your playstyle, check the toolbox, maybe something will help.
if they realy wanted to gain players ROLL THE PATCH BACK FOR DUNGEONS!
I would be surprised if the comments like this with pure biased personal opinion not at all fully backed up by logic or statistics not being removed.
look at how many people are kitten off about this change then look at your stupid comments. this change will impact this game regardless of what you think. this makes it realy hard to play dungeons anymore. go do ac explore and tell me you can beat kholer without dying and the boss resetting over and over with newbies. then come post here!
I beat Kohl all the time with pug groups.. even lvl 35 Pug groups.
Seriously almost every class has skills that not only save themselves but can save the entire group from the scorpion wire attack.
Guardians – Reflect Wall, Shield Wall (Shield 5), Virtue of Resolve (group ageis), Retreat (group ageis), Stand Your Ground (stability)
Mesmers – Reflect Bubble
Elementalist – Magnetic Shield (staff earth 3?) with talents to affect party.
Thief – Smoke Screen
I am sure there are more… anything that blocks, absorbs projectiles, or grants stability will save you from scorpion wire… if you can’t do it, someone else can (assuming you can’t dodge for some reason).
It sounds like people on your server just never bothered to learn the mechanics.
Which means you actually have to dodge and work together which emphasizes teamwork.
You can do every single dungeon without dieing if you learn the encounters.
Other games don’t have rez rushing, how many raids or dungeons have you done where you beat bosses by endlessly dieing and rezing? Because I can’t think of any I’ve personally played.
Rez rushing is a crutch for bad players who don’t actually know how to play.
witch helps them learn the strats cause they will learn over time what to do. having to repair armor was bad enough but now this… not being able to get back into battle is bullkitten
It doesn’t help you learn strats, it gives you bad habits of not learning strats because you can run back in.
You learn strats by completing a fight from start to finish, even if you have to wipe while doing so.
You don’t learn strats by getting “multiple lives” and taking twice as long to kill things because you have to keep running back.
just admit this change is wrong
It’s not wrong, you’re just bad at playing the game apparently.
so now we are going to insults yeah that will get you anywhere. the changes were wrong this patch messed up more than it should have. just admit that what im saying is correct and move on
I was actually looking at your posts in the other thread you’ve posted in, you’ve not been able to provide any concrete evidence as to why the previous res rushing tactic was legit and didn’t need removing, you’ve also resorted to calling everyone who disagrees with you a “fail” and an “Elitist”, effectively insulting them, and then you assume that by me saying you’re bad at the game, is also an insult, it may be an insult, but it’s also apparently true.
If you can only clear a dungeon by Res-Rushing, then you suck, and greatly need to improve, i’ve done many dungeons without having anyone wipe once, BEFORE the change. So it’s easily possible, because a lot of these were done with pugs, you’re either on a terrible server, or you yourself are a terrible player, sorry, but that’s the truth, now as you seem to say every single time you post a comment. “You know i’m correct so just agree with me and move on.”
the changes on this patch kitten more people off then just me
Yes, but the set of people who like to dislike things without thought corresponds very closely to the set of people who like to complain on forums… there is a much larger set of people that do neither of those things.
Which means you actually have to dodge and work together which emphasizes teamwork.
You can do every single dungeon without dieing if you learn the encounters.
Other games don’t have rez rushing, how many raids or dungeons have you done where you beat bosses by endlessly dieing and rezing? Because I can’t think of any I’ve personally played.
Rez rushing is a crutch for bad players who don’t actually know how to play.
witch helps them learn the strats cause they will learn over time what to do. having to repair armor was bad enough but now this… not being able to get back into battle is bullkitten
It doesn’t help you learn strats, it gives you bad habits of not learning strats because you can run back in.
You learn strats by completing a fight from start to finish, even if you have to wipe while doing so.
You don’t learn strats by getting “multiple lives” and taking twice as long to kill things because you have to keep running back.
Whether it’s multiplayer or single player games, 99.9% of games don’t have “rez-rushing”. It’s the dumbest mechanic ever and should have never been in the game in the first place.
How many single player action or rpg games do you play where you get a game-over and can rush back in to a boss at the same health when you died (besides arcade games I guess so they can take your money)? That doesn’t help you learn anything or create anything challenging, which is why no game does it.
THIS!
I can not tell you how many Pugs I have been in where I ask “What does this boss do?” only to get the answer “I don’t know, if you die, just run back”….. That is not learning, that’t lazy, and it ruins the game for everyone.
Hmm. I don’t have much dungeon experience, but in most dungeons, we wouldn’t have made it past the last few bosses without the res-run.
I’m talking about a random group here. And yes, we did discuss strategy in hard fights.Now, disabling the wp during combat is a good idea to encourage teamwork, but there must be a system to help teammates get up in a fight. Otherwise dungeons become to hard. Perhaps ressing will go faster when more teammates are down? A (personal?) bar that fills as you deal and recieve damage and will res someone for (a part of) the stored energy? Some object (a little totem?) which can be picked up and used to res someone? (it could give a skillbar with a healing, condition remove and res skills?)
I know the bosses will be changed, but a little help in dungeons would be nice.
Res-ing already goes faster with more people doing it, and the res bar does not decrease (for fully KO’d players), so you can easily start a res, dodge an attack, then get back to resing and you will get them up eventually.
Hello Arena net
i think you should place a dungeon finder which is found outside the dungeon. This is because over server you could play with but won’t be able to here from them. also i think at the end of a dungeon it should have a stats page with stats from the dungeon and shows who got the most kills in the party for example.
And finally i think that Sorrow’s Embrace need’s looking at exp mode because the boss are over powered. (sorry for English)
Wow, I actually really like the idea of posting dungeon stats at the end of the dungeon, maybe little badges for “most damage taken”, “least deaths”, “most damage done”, “longest time spent with aggro”, “most healing”, “most CC applied” etc.
One of the biggest problems I have with the destruction of the Trinity (which is a good thing), is that its hard to find out what actually happened… sometimes groups do well, sometimes they don’t, sometimes it’s your fault but you just don’t know why.
" I am going through the dungeon for the reward, not for the teamwork gaming aspect."
They stated from the very start that explore mode dungeons were intended to be difficult and for more organised and experienced groups. There is no actual ‘reward’ for these dungeons, other than bragging rights by sporting a full set of unique looking gear.. if you just in it for the reward, you need to remember its just a game.
“They’re removing Rez-rushing with all it’s flaws and tweaking the encounters so that the benefits that the mechanic used to provide won’t be necessary!”
Yes but the implemented the PAIN before doing the tweaks. Phase 1 and 2 SHOULD NOT have been separate!
It is far easier to rebalance encounters that are too hard than ones that are too easy. Have some fun with it for a month and see if you can do it.
For one, I absolutely LOVE the WP changes.
Please continue to improve the dungeons and make them challenging and fair.
PS. Pug or not (I only do pugs), if you don’t know the strategy for a boss, you should loose at least once… that’s how you get better. Trivializing content is no fun for anyone.
Well the good news is that you were wrong. I had just enough time to grab the last page after returning from work and turned it in. Happy Halloween.
EnemyCrusher, ever take into consideration those that have work and a family and can’t just spend ridiculous hours playing a game?
This type of argument always bugs me. I have work, and family, and responsibilities to both. This means I choose what is important in life and let the rest slide. It means I set my ‘game’ goals and feel good about what I can accomplish, but otherwise just enjoy the experience of ‘gaming’ in my off time.
The joy is in the doing, something I want to impart to my kid.
The sooner this junk is removed from the game the better. Hopefully there won’t ever be such a frustrating “money-pit” event released like this ever again. All players, including ones that just created their first account, should be able to obtain all items within a good 4-5 hours without having farm gold prior to the event.
Wow.
Why not step it up a notch and say “All players, including ones just created, should just obtain all times through the mail system as soon as they log in”.
Honestly this was one of the best, if not the best, holiday event I have ever seen in an MMO. The content was interesting, some was challenging, some was fun, and it was almost ALL accessible to low level players (I heard the boss event scaled down to meet the players level, nice touch but I was working and couldn’t attempt it). I even managed to get all but one page of Mad Memories with my lvl 26 (unguilded) elementalist (my main).
I completed the Clock Tower, and had a great time. This is what MMOs and Holiday Events should be, a fun, challenging, exciting buffet where you can either try everything, nothing or whatever looks good. The experience is the reward, not the mementos (ie costumes/gear).
So I have all but the final page of Mad Memories (second part) but unfortunately work calls and I won’t be online for another 8 hours. Will I still be able to get my last page? (Note I am also lvl 26, so actually getting through the lvl 55 mobs takes a little time and a lot of help).
Human Elementalist
No speed boost
Finished 3 in a row after about 2 hours of ‘practice’
By far the best 2 hours ever spent in a MMO Holiday Event.
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