Guild Wars 2

@Dealman.2381: So, you’d say that the AMD Llano A6-3600 2.1GHz o/c to 3GHz is able to show much more performance than what is shown in those benchmarks, right?

@Dealman.2381: I’ll recap then.

• The op wanted to buy an AMD Llano A6-3600 2.1GHz
• I linked http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/guild-wars-2-performance-benchmark,3268-7.html so he could see that the Llano, even overclocked to 3GHz, doesn’t get any more than 37.5fps on average, so it would be a really bad buy
• Some stated none of these benchmarks mattered, which I’m yet to figure why……

I guess you should ask Tom’s Hardware to close then, since they seem to (a) don’t know what they are doing and (b) release inappropriate benchmarks that don’t reflect real-world performance. Is that it?

Tjboyd.6942:

Hopefully someday they will patch the game so that AMD users are actually able to play the game smoothly. I run about 20-40 max on all high settings at 1920×1080. Do you think I should try to overclock my cpu to 4.0? I have a high end cpu cooler.

Definitely! O/C it as much as you can. Performance will almost double going from 3GHz to 4GHz.

From the same link:

AMD’s dual-module FX-4000-series demonstrates a colossal gain between 3 and 4 GHz, though, telling us that the processor is bottlenecking performance in a big way at lower frequencies.

zqa the monk.6094:

Well, looks like the specs are all sorted out now. As for a monitor I know you suggested a 2mm response speed but will a 5mm be ok as I’m already £100 over budget. Is there a noticeable difference?

(monitor I picked)
http://www.cclonline.com/product/86726/ET-VS1HE-004/Monitors/Acer-S231HLbid-23-inch-Full-HD-Widescreen-LED-Backlight-Display/MON0944/

There is some noticeable difference in 5ms vs 2ms if you also play shooters, but that seems a good monitor for its price.

Tjboyd.6942:

Yeah I hear yah. Idk I just can’t believe my pc performs this bad on this game. The graphics aren’t even really all that good to be honest. I don’t understand it.

It’s the AMD cpu:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/guild-wars-2-performance-benchmark,3268-7.html
It bottlenecks at 43.8fps with a 7970@1280x1024, when running @3GHz. Even if yours runs @3.6GHz, when going to 1920×1080 and using a 6950 performance is going to be even less than those 43.8fps. Check the thread about the AMD CPU performance.

Tjboyd.6942:

Do you think SSD’s would make a difference on game play?

They’ll make a difference more on level loading and stuff like that. Once everything is in RAM they don’t make any difference. On general windows performance, you’ll see a big increase when using an SSD, since everything will load much much faster.

zqa the monk.6094:

I don’t want to spend that much extra on an SSD but will this (link below) make a big difference in terms of how smooth things run on my computer its only an extra £50. So do you think I should swap out the caviar black for this SDD?

http://www.cclonline.com/product/54873/VTX3-25SAT3-240G/Hard-Drives/240GB-OCZ-Vertex-3-2-5-SSD/HDD0523/

Will 240GB be enough for your needs right now?

• If yes, then swap the HDD for the SSD.
• If no, then keep the HDD.

Also, remember you can always buy the SSD now and later on buy an HDD (internal or external) if you need more space.

Depends on how much you want to spend. SSDs make excellent boot drives, windows will feel alot snappier with one, but you are already buying a great HDD (a Caviar Black), so if you don’t really want to spend that extra money now, you can always but the SSD later.

This should give you a nice overview of the boost you get from an SSD:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lR0XoHFU6Y

And look at this article to get a grasp on which SSD to choose vs price points:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-recommendation-benchmark,3269.html

Esrever.8613:

It really could matter less. If you buy something, its not just going to run with a 7970, unless you want to find a better prebuilt system for the OP, thats all he’s got.

Would you invest in a system you knew that couldn’t deliver more that 37.5fps, ever?

Lets end this pointless discussion, both points of view have merit. The £100 difference between both is the choice of whether you want better quality visuals during the lifetime of the videocard, or a 10% save on the overall price of the computer.

It up to the op to decide that. Personally, I bet on the GTX670 because you’ll get to be playing most (all?) games at Ultra settings and it shows a clear advantage on current and next-gen game engines. For example, there are several games coming out this year on the Frostbite 2 engine, where the GTX670 has a pretty nice advantage (41fps vs 60fps, 46% faster than the 7870 or the 7870 is 32% slower, whatever percentage reference point you prefer).

Esrever.8613:

none of that matters in reality and all that matters is how well it does in a realistic situation.

Lol? In a realistic situation, an AMD Llano Quad-Core overclocked to 3GHz will get 37.5fps average tops, with a 7970@1280x1024. Put there a lesser graphics card, or up the resolution and it’s going down from the 37.5fps.

Felix.2613:

VirtualBS.3165:

You can see here the difference:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/guild-wars-2-performance-benchmark,3268-7.html

AMD Llano Quad-Core: 37.5fps average
Pentium Sandy-Bridge Dual-Core: 52.9fps average

And those benchmarks overclocked the Llano to 3GHz, you’ll get much less at the default clock of 2.1GHz.

Yes if he plays on 1280×1024, sets everything to low and installs a 7970 lol!

You don’t know how to read a cpu testing benchmark dude.

You do realise that 1280×1024 with a 7970 is done to test the CPU right? You are removing the GPU bottleneck (low rez and fast card) and overclocking them all to the same frequency, to see how much each CPU is able to deliver on a best-case scenario.

You don’t know how to read a cpu testing benchmark dude.

Esrever.8613:

7870 can max this game and theres no denying that so why bother spending $150 more?

Would you buy an expensive videocard so just you could max one game? Or is it better for it to be a little future-proof?
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/598?vs=548

Felix.2613:

And why did the other 3000$ expert buy a GTX680, when he could have bought an overclocked GTX670, gotten a faster card and saved himself 100$ too.

And why all this anger and resentment?

Felix.2613:

https://www.google.dk/search?q=lapping+the+cpu&aq=f&sugexp=chrome,mod=14&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

And why did the other 3000$ expert buy a GTX680, when he could have bought an overclocked GTX670, gotten a faster card and saved himself 100$ too.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_670_Direct_Cu_II/9.html

Thanks for that search result! I particularly liked the link How to destroy your CPU by lapping it.

My head just exploded with all the illumination on this thread! /bow

(Just a sidenote: you don’t lap the CPUs, you lap the heatsinks…)

Oh well…!

Tanira.8157:

GA-Z77-D3H, cheaper by 40gbp
You get VIA audio which is worse, no SLI support.
Atheros NIC, which should be fine.
A bit fewer OC settings. No cooling on VRMs (which should only matter if OCing much)

I agree that is also a very nice board, but the Creative audio on the Sniper is night and day from VIA, especially for HRTF positional audio (Creative’s CMSS-3D), and even better when using headphones. It also has a dedicated headphone amp.
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4168#ov

No cooling on the VRMs is only okish when using a top-down cooler; when you are using a side cooler like that Cooler Master 212, the VRMs will have much less airflow, so having heatsinks on them will help alot.

Tanira.8157:

OCing with the new 3D UEFI bios on Gigabyte is very easy. It’s a menu where you can use mouse and you can do by just changing multiplier on the different turbo boosts. With low OC, like setting TB on 1-2 cores to x43 (4300mhz) and TB on 3 and 4 cores to x42 (4200mhz) can be done without any additional tweaking. I know some will say that you should never use those auto features, but mobo’s are more intelligent now and there is no need for it at low clocks. However, when you start to go beyond 4.5GHz on all cores you need to be more careful and preferably use manual settings.

This! ^

Yes, the OS is correct, however, Windows 8 is being released to the general public on the 26th October, so ask them first if you are going to be eligible for the £15 upgrade offer, since you are buying the full PC from them with Windows 7 pre-installed.

I personally think the G1.Sniper M3 has better specs than the GA-Z77-D3H.

If you want to overclock your CPU later (you’ll need to learn how):

• Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Processor 6MB L3 Cache 5GT/s Bus Speed (Boxed)
• Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO CPU Cooler RR-212E-16PK-R1

If you don’t want to overclock your CPU later:

• Intel Core i5-3550 3.3GHz Processor 6MB L3 Cache 5GT/s Bus Speed (Boxed)
• No aftermarket cooler is needed, because there is already one supplied with the CPU, that’s why the description says “Boxed”.

The rest:

• Gigabyte Z77-G1-SNIPER-M3 Motherboard
• 8GB G.Skill Ripjaws-X F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL 1600MHX DDR3
• MSI NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 Graphics Card
• 1TB Western Digital Caviar Black 3.5" Hard Disk Drive
• Lian Li PC-K57B Black Lancool Series Midi Part-Mesh Gaming Chassis
• XFX Pro 650W Power Supply Unit

@zqa the monk.6094:

You have 2 choices: either overclock or don’t:

• If you are going to overclock, you can get a K CPU and a cooler and go for the 660Ti
• If you are not overclocking, use that money to but the GTX 670 and go for one of the CPUs below, like I mentioned in a previous post: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/tech/Need-computer-spec-help/219764

Intel Core i5-3550 3.3GHz Processor 6MB L3 Cache 5GT/s Bus Speed (Boxed), still very good (Turbo upto 3.7 GHz)
Intel Core i5-3450 3.1GHz Processor 6MB L3 Cache 5GT/s Bus Speed (Boxed), a bit slower (Turbo upto 3.5 GHz)

I was using the reference point of the GTX 670 for all my percentages. Anyway, this should give a precise comparison between GTX 670 vs AMD 7870:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/598?vs=548

Also, between GTX 670 and GTX 660 Ti: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/598?vs=647
660Ti and 7870: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/647?vs=548

@Tanira.8157: My list of components above is specific to the shop the op referred http://www.cclonline.com. The sniper.m3 is a great board for that price point, with a good audio and network chip — here’s the feature comparison between both:
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/comparison/list.aspx?ck=2&pids=4140,4168
I also agree that the 660Ti is a great card, although a bit memory bandwidth starved.

Esrever.8613:

thats not how you do fractions.

Err….Percentages are normalized to 100%…. Yes, that’s how you do fractional percentages…

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-159-GW
Gainward GeForce GTX 670 2048M £309.95

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/search_results.php?sortby=&groupid=&search=7870
For £190 there is only a B-grade card, sorry, but pass
Average low ~£199.99

1-200/310 = 35.48%, which makes the GTX 670 only 35.5% more expensive than the 7870, making those extra £110 worth it.

You can see here the difference:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/guild-wars-2-performance-benchmark,3268-7.html

AMD Llano Quad-Core: 37.5fps average
Pentium Sandy-Bridge Dual-Core: 52.9fps average

And those benchmarks overclocked the Llano to 3GHz, you’ll get much less at the default clock of 2.1GHz.

For $500 you can get a PC that puts those specs to shame!
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-pc-overclocking-pc-building,3273.html

The 670 is around £290-300, the 7870 is around £200-210, so you are spending 33% more, for more 33% performance… Ignoring the fact that the 7870 will become obsolete 33% faster!

Major as in going from ~12 fps to ~15fps?

Dee Jay.2460:

I remember something similar about the Windows Media Player improving WoW’s performance while running in the background.

Software is weird.

Yes, it’s exactly the same issue.

You’re having a problem with the windows timer resolution then. Try this fix:
http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1075781-tweak-enable-hpet-in-bios-and-os-for-better-performance-and-fps/

You can also try this program:
http://www.lucashale.com/timer-resolution/
(free version says WinXP only, but works nicely on Win 7 also)

Soulwatcher.2604:

What ever AMD design choices they made for this processor, it caused the cpu and voltage to clock up and down like a yoyo. Manually setting the CPU makes the voltage and clock speed stable. I hope this info can help some one like it helped me!

There! Fixed it for ya!

Esrever.8613:

If the 670 is too much money, a 7870 should max this game out.

True, but on everything else the 7870 is around 30+% slower than a GTX 670.

Personally, when I buy stuff this expensive I always think — If I’m spending this money to buy something good, might as well last me as long as it can, so going for the “just enough for specifically game X” usually has a bigger price tag in the end.

skeletank.4382:

How exactly would I go about taxing my system? I am too poor right now to waste money on RAM I don’t need. Oh, and I have two 4 gig sticks.

Just scroll up to one of my previous posts here, on how to use IBT to stress your system much more than any game.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/tech/BSOD-s-and-Crashing-caused-by-Hardware-or-Engine/192414

You can decrease a bit the CPU specs if you’re not overclocking:

• Intel Core i5-3550 3.3GHz Processor 6MB L3 Cache 5GT/s Bus Speed (Boxed), still very good (Turbo upto 3.7 GHz)
• Intel Core i5-3450 3.1GHz Processor 6MB L3 Cache 5GT/s Bus Speed (Boxed), a bit slower (Turbo upto 3.5 GHz)

Wires? Anything not included on the motherboard box or the GPU box?

As for monitors, I suggest you search for models rated at 2ms response time, there are some good ones on that site.

Use these as your starting point on that site, should be around £870:

• Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Processor 6MB L3 Cache 5GT/s Bus Speed (Boxed)
• Gigabyte Z77-G1-SNIPER-M3 Motherboard
• 8GB G.Skill Ripjaws-X F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL 1600MHX DDR3
• MSI NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 Graphics Card
• 1TB Western Digital Caviar Black 3.5" Hard Disk Drive
• Lian Li PC-K57B Black Lancool Series Midi Part-Mesh Gaming Chassis
• XFX Pro 650W Power Supply Unit
• Gold-Level System Assembly

I was just checking that site, you can put all the components in the basket and add http://www.cclonline.com/category/215/Desktop-PCs/Custom-PC-Build-Services/ and they will assemble everything.

https://www.microsoft.com/appliedsciences/antighostingexplained.mspx
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollover_

Check on those systems at Tom’s Hardware, and read up why they chose the components they did, for the $500, $1000 and $2000 systems. They also benchmark them extensively afterwards.

Especially, read the article where they compare the value between them all:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/System-Builder-Marathon-August-2012-GTX-670-Kepler,3280.html

Try disabling reflections, it will make a huge difference (as in 50fps vs 150fps huge on certain spots!).

zqa the monk.6094:

Here are the specs….

?XFX Pro 650W Power Supply Unit x 1
?TP-Link TL-WN781ND 150Mbps Wireless Lite N PCI Express Adaptor x 1
?Intel Core i7-2600 3.4GHz Quad Core Processor x 1
?Asus GeForce GTX 550 Ti 1GB Graphics Card x 1
?Seagate Barracuda 500GB Hard Drive x 1
?Samsung DVD RW SH-222BB/BEBE 22x SATA Black x 1
?8GB Kingston Hyper X Red Limited Edition DDR3 1333Mhz Kit x 1
?Gigabyte GA-H61MA-D2V Motherboard x 1
?CiT Imp Micro ATX Black Interior Mesh Case x 1

• PSU is very good (made by Seasonic, single-rail)
• WiFi is ok
• CPU is last gen, get an i5-3xxx at least. The first number represents the generation – 2 for Sandy Bridge (last gen) and 3 for Ivy Bridge (current gen).
• GPU sucks (~32.1fps@1920x1080), more than twice as slower as a GTX 670 (~71fps), almost 0% future-proof.
• HD is ok
• DVD is ok
• RAM is bad, you need at least DDR3 1600MHz RAM
• MB is bad, at least get something B75 based (not overclockable), ideal would be a Z77 chipset (overclockable)
• Case is Micro ATX…… You can’t use that lol, it’s for micro ATX motherboards! You’l have a hard time fitting a lenghty gfx card in there.

Just curious, if you have no experience in system building, why would you think you could come up with a better system build than Tom’s Hardware, that have been doing those System Marathons almost every month, for so long?

Have you tried to install the game to a folder outside Program Files ?

zqa the monk.6094:

Here are the specs….
?Asus GeForce GTX 550 Ti 1GB Graphics Card x 1

Stopped reading right here!

zqa the monk.6094:

Thanks both of you I think I’m going to copy paste the $1000 configuration which is around £700 and depending on how much it will cost for them to build the computer for me it should leave some room for a monitor. By the way just so I’m sure that 1k configuration will run GW2 on ultra settings smoothly PVE wise on top of PVP? Just want to make sure so I don’t kitten it up.

(http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-a-pc-overclock-benchmark,3276.html)

Check this page for expected performance using the best appearance preset, as you can see, the GTX 670 is a sure bet for 1920×1080p.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/guild-wars-2-performance-benchmark,3268-6.html

You should have a look at Tom’s Hardware System Builder Marathons, and check the system for your price point:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-a-pc-overclock-benchmark,3276.html

Is your 6670 card the version with GDDR3 or GDDR5?

mathisk.6427 nailed it pretty good!

I would only add unstable voltage regulators in the PSU and motherboard (CPU) as well. You will sometimes hear a high pitch “hissing” sound when the FET’s are failing…

+1 here for single-rail +12V PSUs

This should give you a pretty good idea of the requirements to play this game at different presets:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/guild-wars-2-performance-benchmark,3268.html

Izziee.8392:

Well that;s pretty much irrelevant. Same res as I was running with the 5550. 1920×1024.

And also, the older card isn’t on that list.

I’ll assume you meant 1920×1080. Resolution is anything but irrelevant. An entry-level GPU will have a lot of trouble with anything past ~1280×1024. You can try to choose the subsampling scaling in the GW2 options.

As you can see in the link above, the 6670 (a GDDR3 card), gets an average of 19.2fps on the balanced preset at 1920×1080.

For performance & fps values, you need to say at what monitor resolution you want them, otherwise it’s just a meaningless number.

Please check this post:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/tech/BSOD-s-and-Crashing-caused-by-Hardware-or-Engine/192414

Also, what PSU are you using?

The ATI 6670 is your bottleneck. What resolution are you gaming at?

You can check this article to see how the 6670 compares to other cards:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/guild-wars-2-performance-benchmark,3268.html

First thing I would do is check the temperature of your card while in-game. Most common cause for high temperatures in non-overclocked GPUs or CPUs is the accumulation of dust between the heatsink fins and the fan.