Showing Posts For ocirne.7915:
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Based on the amount of players that purchased the game.
Everyone that has played since release knows that 3-5 months after release, huge amounts of people stopped playing because there was nothing to do. Even big guilds barely had any people online.
..
The playerbase has stabilized ofcource, so any numbers you get now won’t show a big decline of players, but yeah a very significant part of the playerbase stopped 3-5 months after release.
Nobody has any numbers of the playerbase, but 70% gone does seem a good estimate.
GW1’s combat was a whole lot more active than people give it credit because of the aftercast mechanic. A skilled player could still move at about half speed even when constantly auto attacking / using attack skills. Combined with body blocking, a warrior could circle around a moving player to block his path while constantly attacking.
Though only a very small percentage of the playerbase was decent at this..
I think as far as balancing goes, just being more daring would help a lot. I mean look at WoW, 6,8 million subs still, 12,1 mil max, and 10 years going.
And what do they do? They change tons of skills constantly, exchanging the entire functionality, merging them, splitting them off, removing them, adding them.Yes, this upsets the balance, constantly.
But, between the frequent wild swings in balance, the devs get very very useful input about what the actual underlying problems are. So over time, the WoW-balance-line slowly homes in on the target.
Ofc, being not nearly there after 10 years, and WoW still being easily best-balanced MMO I’ve played, might also bring you to the – IMO correct – conclusion that balancing MMOs is a futile task. I agree, complexity of combat + skills + classes + gear is way too high to be balanced or even close to balanced, no matter what.
Still, if nothing else WoW’s way of constantly re-mixing their classes keeps things more fresh.At it, ANet! Come on, try it a bit! The combat and it’s balance are stale from 2 years of neglect outside of ignorable miniscule sPvP-centric changes. Do something big. Give me 16 glamours as a Mesmer. Swap Clone / Shatter skills, making clone-generation the class ability. Make elites (across the board) low-cooldown super-power skills which completely define your current playstyle due to dominating it.
Will these work? Probably not! But you won’t get any input without trying it out!
They have already tried it, and did an amazing job at it. The monthly skill balance changes in GW1 was what kept the game fresh. A small changes to a few skills would completely overhaul the entire meta, and this happened every month with every class.
Although, the reason that this was possible, was that there were countless of interactions between countless of skills. in GW2, there is nothing of that, there is no Sever Attery -> Gash, none of the skills interact with any of the other skills in any way.
And so far with GW2, anet has been completely reluctant to change any of the core mechanics, even if they are flawed to the core.
Except pvp is completely terrible..
The whole point of this thread is that we want more diversity and choice.
Diversity is not diversity if there is only one clear answer. A game with proper diversity has a large selection of different playstyles and options available for builds without one being clearly better than the other.
Anet absolutely did a brilliant job at this in GW1, even after updates stopped to stop OP builds, there is still a massive amount of builds available each with a completely different playstyle.
pvp: http://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Category:All_working_PvP_builds
pve: http://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Category:All_working_PvE_buildsDepth plays a huge role, and depth is not difficulty, difficulty is the easiest / laziest way to add depth. Depth and accessibility are also not mutually exclusive in the slightest.
Basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVL4st0blGU
There are plenty of builds in GW2. Just look that the various build databases. GW1 was a trinity based game so the builds are stuck in specific roles. You cannot compare the 2 games. Both have depth of builds, it is just the players only see one type. That is not the games fault, but theirs.
There are plenty of builds, but the builds often have nearly identical playstyles. Builds mostly dont change how you use your skills.
Basically, yes there are many variations for builds on all classes, but they are not nearly different enough gameplay wise.
edit:
And no, it’s never the player’s fault. The game promotes using certain things, simply because it works best. If people don’t use things, its because they don’t work as well. There is no depth if the choice is always clear.You are mistaken – it is the players fault – the players are the ones who look for speed runs and the simplest way to do things. It is obvious that people like to blame others for their own faults and flaws.
The game doesn’t promote ANYTHING. They did say that ‘Zerker’ was the best DPS is all – nothing more. It is the PLAYERS that decided that ONLY DPS is important. A.Net did not and if they did, then we would only have DPS armor not PTV, and all the other armors types in the game. If what you said is true, than A.Net wouldn’t have changed how some of the world bosses fight, etc.
DPS is most important because it works best, because of how the AI / encounters work right now. PLAYERS don’t decide things, they do what works best.
And obviously only DPS is not what anet wanted to do, simply because there is stuff aimed at other roles. The game just isn’t designed well enough to make those other roles comparable.
No – sorry – that is why Anet put a heal and other support skills on the bar. If they just wanted DPS, that is all they would have on the bar. I am not saying DPS is not important I am saying that other types of skills (such as CC, debuff, etc.) are just as important. Example if you use a GS with a Mesmer you get one skill that is a knockback. If DPS was so important, than why is that skill there? The same can be said for a Guardian using a scepter as in the middle of the 5 skill bar, there is a CC skill – why?
People like to blame others for the narrow way they think. This is what is happening now. Go into WvW and try not to use a Support Guardian – it won’t happen. Same with all the other professions.
Have you read any of the other posts?
The whole point of this thread is that we want more diversity and choice.
Diversity is not diversity if there is only one clear answer. A game with proper diversity has a large selection of different playstyles and options available for builds without one being clearly better than the other.
Anet absolutely did a brilliant job at this in GW1, even after updates stopped to stop OP builds, there is still a massive amount of builds available each with a completely different playstyle.
pvp: http://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Category:All_working_PvP_builds
pve: http://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Category:All_working_PvE_buildsDepth plays a huge role, and depth is not difficulty, difficulty is the easiest / laziest way to add depth. Depth and accessibility are also not mutually exclusive in the slightest.
Basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVL4st0blGU
There are plenty of builds in GW2. Just look that the various build databases. GW1 was a trinity based game so the builds are stuck in specific roles. You cannot compare the 2 games. Both have depth of builds, it is just the players only see one type. That is not the games fault, but theirs.
There are plenty of builds, but the builds often have nearly identical playstyles. Builds mostly dont change how you use your skills.
Basically, yes there are many variations for builds on all classes, but they are not nearly different enough gameplay wise.
edit:
And no, it’s never the player’s fault. The game promotes using certain things, simply because it works best. If people don’t use things, its because they don’t work as well. There is no depth if the choice is always clear.You are mistaken – it is the players fault – the players are the ones who look for speed runs and the simplest way to do things. It is obvious that people like to blame others for their own faults and flaws.
The game doesn’t promote ANYTHING. They did say that ‘Zerker’ was the best DPS is all – nothing more. It is the PLAYERS that decided that ONLY DPS is important. A.Net did not and if they did, then we would only have DPS armor not PTV, and all the other armors types in the game. If what you said is true, than A.Net wouldn’t have changed how some of the world bosses fight, etc.
DPS is most important because it works best, because of how the AI / encounters work right now. PLAYERS don’t decide things, they do what works best.
And obviously only DPS is not what anet wanted to do, simply because there is stuff aimed at other roles. The game just isn’t designed well enough to make those other roles comparable.
The whole point of this thread is that we want more diversity and choice.
Diversity is not diversity if there is only one clear answer. A game with proper diversity has a large selection of different playstyles and options available for builds without one being clearly better than the other.
Anet absolutely did a brilliant job at this in GW1, even after updates stopped to stop OP builds, there is still a massive amount of builds available each with a completely different playstyle.
pvp: http://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Category:All_working_PvP_builds
pve: http://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Category:All_working_PvE_buildsDepth plays a huge role, and depth is not difficulty, difficulty is the easiest / laziest way to add depth. Depth and accessibility are also not mutually exclusive in the slightest.
Basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVL4st0blGU
There are plenty of builds in GW2. Just look that the various build databases. GW1 was a trinity based game so the builds are stuck in specific roles. You cannot compare the 2 games. Both have depth of builds, it is just the players only see one type. That is not the games fault, but theirs.
There are plenty of builds, but the builds often have nearly identical playstyles. Builds mostly dont change how you use your skills.
Basically, yes there are many variations for builds on all classes, but they are not nearly different enough gameplay wise.
edit:
And no, it’s never the player’s fault. The game promotes using certain things, simply because it works best. If people don’t use things, its because they don’t work as well. There is no depth if the choice is always clear.
(edited by ocirne.7915)
The whole point of this thread is that we want more diversity and choice.
Diversity is not diversity if there is only one clear answer. A game with proper diversity has a large selection of different playstyles and options available for builds without one being clearly better than the other.
Anet absolutely did a brilliant job at this in GW1, even after updates stopped to stop OP builds, there is still a massive amount of builds available each with a completely different playstyle.
pvp: http://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Category:All_working_PvP_builds
pve: http://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Category:All_working_PvE_builds
Depth plays a huge role, and depth is not difficulty, difficulty is the easiest / laziest way to add depth. Depth and accessibility are also not mutually exclusive in the slightest.
Basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVL4st0blGU
(edited by ocirne.7915)
Apparently they really hate the idea of doing damage while supporting, or something. Tbh I don’t really get it either, the only explanation I can think of is that they’re lazy and want to spec full defense and have an excuse for it.
quoting this for truth. I will add another reason why: I believe that some people want to RP as a support tank. That is how they envision their character and thats how they want to play it. It doesn’t matter that the game isnt designed to have that type of character be useful in PvE. They want -they NEED- to play a Holy Paladin Sword and Board Guardian and that’s that. The idea that they can spec full berserker AND provide all the same utility is irrelevant because in their internal conception of what their character is its a full tank support, not a full dps support.
I have no problem with people trying to fulfill some internal vision of their character concept. The issue starts when people demand that the very nature of the game be radically altered so that their internal vision become extremely effective. This is entirely selfish, and ignores all the people whose equally important internal visions would be hurt.
Regardless, the best bet is not to argue fruitlessly about radically changing the basic nature of the game (won’t happen) but to either enjoy the game for what it actually is, or find another game that you would enjoy more for what it is.
Other people seem to be looking to have a character for whom DPS is not a significant function of their build while focusing on support and/or control be as useful to the party as a DPS focused character who carries some support/control as secondary elements of their build.
Unfortunately for them, that isn’t what guild wars 2 pve is. That isn’t this game. Sorry. If this is a deal breaker for you, well, find another game.
So why does gear other than berserkers exist? why does healing power exist? Anet is throwing away a big part of the game simply because they won’t bother to make the other specs comparable to max dps.
Being able to attack and move without pause removes a massive amount of the positioning decisions from the game that could have added a lot of depth.
Instead of: “Hey, I’m standing in AoE but my target is almost dead, should i take some more damage to attack once more or get out of the AoE right now?”,
Its “non stop kiting and circling and spamming skills.”
Removal of mana also removes a massive part of the skill usage decisions. Basically it boils down to; Does this skill increase my DPS? -> use it on recharge.. but.. this subject has been discussed to death already.
People have decided that no matter whether someone is providing support (defense or offense) or CC, if they are using berserker gear they’re a DPS. The idea that gear = role is too deeply ingrained in the MMO consciousness.
I think people are just emphasizing the fact that speccing for max dps / berserkers is the only sane option there is.
And it does make sense to an extent that gear = role because it makes the biggest difference in your build. Traits are all +5% bonuses, utilities can be swapped out at any time to suit the encounters, and we can’t change anything about our profession / weapon abilities.
Gear plays a huge part for roles.
So, gear = role. No, it does not.
Because 4/5/0/0/5 actually does more dps because of the Power of the Virtuous trait and through more reflection uptime from the concecration trait combined with +20% damage when aegis is up.
No, you are wrong about the DPS bit;
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guide-DPS-Guardian-for-PVE/first
http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/12501056-dnt-guardian-build-5914And reflects are a form of support too. Also, you often swap out UC to run Master of Consecrations + Absolute Resolution, as you’ll find many theorycrafters and “high end” guilds write down.
A few examples that everyone probably knows are;
- AC part 2, where Detha plants the mines.
- The harpies in Fractals
Reflect can be a massive dps increase in a lot of places and those guides don’t factor that in. And since reflect is affected by +%damage, people like to get both the aegis and concecration trait.
He is not confusing anything, a guardian doesnt need to change anything about his max dps build except utilities to get all the support he needs.
We’re just complaining about gearing/traiting for support being useless.
Then explain why 4/5/0/0/5 is more common, recommended (by theorycrafters and high end guilds) and better for most situations than 5/5/2/0/2 or 4/6/0/0/2, despite the latter 2 having more DPS for Guardians? Why Unscathed contender isn’t always kept in your trait slots, but often swapped out in favor of master of consecrations?
Because 4/5/0/0/5 actually does more dps because of the Power of the Virtuous trait and through more reflection uptime from the concecration trait combined with +20% damage when aegis is up.
Guardians are already support , that’s their inherent property….
I’ve been with PLENTY of full DPS guards in high lvl fracs dude… saying support guardian is redundant lol…they naturally have enough support, theres no need to excessively spec even further into support unless you are just bad at the gameAgain, I think you’re confusing support with “healing”. I never said you need to grab more survivability or healing. 4/5/0/0/5 is a support Guardian.
He is not confusing anything, a guardian doesnt need to change anything about his max dps build except utilities to get all the support he needs.
We’re just complaining about gearing/traiting for support being useless.
Slotting reflection and aegis utilities doesnt require any investment, you still go max dps.
Yes, they matter, but they are negligible in the overall scheme of things.
You don’t need to build your traits or gear around those support skills, because of the limits of condition caps, defiance, and unshakable. Damage roles, with damage traits, gear, and skills are superior, because you can just burn down enemies in a corner, without worrying too much about building a needed support role.No, you are completely wrong about that. Without reflects, blinds, aegis, stability, etc… you aren’t able to do that damage because you get one shot, interrupted, ect… . It’s why Guardians are so popular in dungeons and especially in fractals.
If what you said was true, then everyone would be bringing necromancers without thinking twice. Necromancers bring excellent damage, but they bring nearly no group support. Thus they are far less in demand.
And those reflects blinds aegis and stability come mostly passive for guardians, a support specced guardian is still useless.
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
No it isn’t.
It is NCSoft that decides where to put money. Sure they can tell ArenaNet that they must put all their 300 employees at this specific issues or else they will lose their funding, but they can’t order ArenaNet employees to work on non-ArenaNet projects. They are hired by ArenaNet, not NCSoft.
It doesnt really matter what other thing they’re working on, the game I mentioned was just an example. Point is, it’s not GW2 or we would have heard something by now.
Your making things up to fit the views you have at this point.
That goes for everything everyone sais about everything minus official announcements by anet.
It’s just an assumption, but there obviously are reasons which lead to making that assumption.
But your making a BIG leap and not even trying to justify why your making that leap. Its the same level of logic of “If i have this pin and there are no tigers in the room then this pin must be keeping the tigers away and or out of this room.” Do you have any thing backing up what your saying?
Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years, despite having a working content pipeline is what i based what i said on. If that is not a valid observation in your book then you can ignore me.
What do you watch them go to work or something and not seen them or are you watching there houses and no one come in or out for 2 years (you may want to call the cops if that true) beyond that you have no ideal what your talking about and have no way to back up any thing your saying. If any thing you would think they are “Working” that why they are not saying any thing to your seemingly godly post that cant be ignored.
In what way does my comment imply any of that..
By “Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years” I mean there haven’t been any major announcements other than living world (which is said to be done by 25 man).
You seem to know what they are doing at least what they are not doing and no one can tell you what they are doing or at least you do not believe them so you MUST have some type of insider info that your going on OR your making things up.
Yeah direct the entire response at me personally ignoring arguments.. reasoning doesn’t work on forums either way…
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
No it isn’t.
It is NCSoft that decides where to put money. Sure they can tell ArenaNet that they must put all their 300 employees at this specific issues or else they will lose their funding, but they can’t order ArenaNet employees to work on non-ArenaNet projects. They are hired by ArenaNet, not NCSoft.
It doesnt really matter what other thing they’re working on, the game I mentioned was just an example. Point is, it’s not GW2 or we would have heard something by now.
Your making things up to fit the views you have at this point.
That goes for everything everyone sais about everything minus official announcements by anet.
It’s just an assumption, but there obviously are reasons which lead to making that assumption.
But your making a BIG leap and not even trying to justify why your making that leap. Its the same level of logic of “If i have this pin and there are no tigers in the room then this pin must be keeping the tigers away and or out of this room.” Do you have any thing backing up what your saying?
Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years, despite having a working content pipeline is what i based what i said on. If that is not a valid observation in your book then you can ignore me.
What do you watch them go to work or something and not seen them or are you watching there houses and no one come in or out for 2 years (you may want to call the cops if that true) beyond that you have no ideal what your talking about and have no way to back up any thing your saying. If any thing you would think they are “Working” that why they are not saying any thing to your seemingly godly post that cant be ignored.
In what way does my comment imply any of that..
By “Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years” I mean there haven’t been any major announcements other than living world (which is said to be done by 25 man).
So your conclusion is that these other 275 people don’t work at the game, because they haven’t announced that they work on anything. Now that’s some funny logic.
Yes pretty much, 2 years is an awkward long time.
Prophecies: April 28 2005
Factions: April 28 2006
Nightfall: October 27 2006
EotN: August 31 2007
And each of those were announced like a month before release atleast iirc.
2 years isnt that long for development of a new game, but for an expansion of an existing game using an existing engine / content pipeline it is.
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
No it isn’t.
It is NCSoft that decides where to put money. Sure they can tell ArenaNet that they must put all their 300 employees at this specific issues or else they will lose their funding, but they can’t order ArenaNet employees to work on non-ArenaNet projects. They are hired by ArenaNet, not NCSoft.
It doesnt really matter what other thing they’re working on, the game I mentioned was just an example. Point is, it’s not GW2 or we would have heard something by now.
Your making things up to fit the views you have at this point.
That goes for everything everyone sais about everything minus official announcements by anet.
It’s just an assumption, but there obviously are reasons which lead to making that assumption.
But your making a BIG leap and not even trying to justify why your making that leap. Its the same level of logic of “If i have this pin and there are no tigers in the room then this pin must be keeping the tigers away and or out of this room.” Do you have any thing backing up what your saying?
Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years, despite having a working content pipeline is what i based what i said on. If that is not a valid observation in your book then you can ignore me.
What do you watch them go to work or something and not seen them or are you watching there houses and no one come in or out for 2 years (you may want to call the cops if that true) beyond that you have no ideal what your talking about and have no way to back up any thing your saying. If any thing you would think they are “Working” that why they are not saying any thing to your seemingly godly post that cant be ignored.
In what way does my comment imply any of that..
By “Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years” I mean there haven’t been any major announcements other than living world (which is said to be done by 25 man).
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
No it isn’t.
It is NCSoft that decides where to put money. Sure they can tell ArenaNet that they must put all their 300 employees at this specific issues or else they will lose their funding, but they can’t order ArenaNet employees to work on non-ArenaNet projects. They are hired by ArenaNet, not NCSoft.
It doesnt really matter what other thing they’re working on, the game I mentioned was just an example. Point is, it’s not GW2 or we would have heard something by now.
Your making things up to fit the views you have at this point.
That goes for everything everyone sais about everything minus official announcements by anet.
It’s just an assumption, but there obviously are reasons which lead to making that assumption.
But your making a BIG leap and not even trying to justify why your making that leap. Its the same level of logic of “If i have this pin and there are no tigers in the room then this pin must be keeping the tigers away and or out of this room.” Do you have any thing backing up what your saying?
Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years, despite having a working content pipeline is what i based that comment on. If that is not a valid observation in your book then you can ignore me.
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
No it isn’t.
It is NCSoft that decides where to put money. Sure they can tell ArenaNet that they must put all their 300 employees at this specific issues or else they will lose their funding, but they can’t order ArenaNet employees to work on non-ArenaNet projects. They are hired by ArenaNet, not NCSoft.
It doesnt really matter what other thing they’re working on, the game I mentioned was just an example. Point is, it’s not GW2 or we would have heard something by now.
Your making things up to fit the views you have at this point.
That goes for everything everyone sais about everything minus official announcements by anet.
It’s just an assumption, but there obviously are reasons which lead to making that assumption.
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
No it isn’t.
It is NCSoft that decides where to put money. Sure they can tell ArenaNet that they must put all their 300 employees at this specific issues or else they will lose their funding, but they can’t order ArenaNet employees to work on non-ArenaNet projects. They are hired by ArenaNet, not NCSoft.
It doesnt really matter what other thing they’re working on, the game I mentioned was just an example. Point is, it’s not GW2 or we would have heard something by now.
Thing is, Anet is owned completely by NCSoft, unless NCSoft decides to pay for more than 25 developers to work on GW2, nothing is going to happen. The other 275+ might as well be working on Wildstar for all we know.
Yeah.. except for the fact that those 300+ employees are employed by ArenaNet not NCSoft, and as such they would not work on a non-ArenaNet project.
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
Thing is, Anet is owned completely by NCSoft, unless NCSoft decides to pay for more than 25 developers to work on GW2, nothing is going to happen. The other 275+ might as well be working on Wildstar for all we know.
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