Guild Wars 2

@XPGAMER, I’ve considered it and even run it some times. It’s definitely nice to have some sort of conditional cleanse but it’s going to boil down to personal preference and play style. It’s worth a shot if you’re interested though!

2/6/0/0/6 for me entails bringing down a target as fast as possible. If you have to deal with conditions, then you’re blind and dodges should be enough. On top of that you have a heal, and shadowstep to help mitigate conditions(just like other classes that have one time cleanse skills). Mug may not seem significant but it plays a good roll — increasing the delta between your health and the enemies health in a split second. This is a pretty good psychological trick that can be played on your enemy when you’re spiking large amounts of damage, while taking damage

I prefer it to be telegraphed over in morse xD

XPGAMER.7324:

Read the bolded parts, I made it really easy. Thats the point of this thread. Just wondering why the gw2 community thinks about those questions the way they do.

Why are you so mad? Do any of your followers know how rude you are?

1. No one QQ’s about D/D. Why would they, and whats the point? It’s not over powered.

2. PvPers insist WvWers are inferior. WvW’ers insist that PvPers are inferior. It’s human to cling to what you enjoy most and defend the kitten out of it.

/thread

Amonatory.2453:

I play both Spvp and WvW. I don’t really care who has better players honestly, IMO spvp is 10x more balanced than WvW, but that doesn’t mean i don’t like WvW. In WvW I run with both Acro and SA depending on what I feel like playing, but when I play acro in WvW condis are absolutely insane so I usually go SA so i can negate the condis. I find good players in both PvP and WvW, who gives a kitten whos better I can beat many PvP thieves and im still technically considered a wvw thief it doesn’t really matter. People just need to get over it, WvW is different that Spvp absolutely nothing is going to change that. I love both, and both have completely stupid builds in it its how the game is. Now for the SA conversation, SA imo is only needed in WvW because of condis and the amount of condi spam in WvW is ridiculous as in pvp the condi is still insane but not as much and thats where your team support comes into play to help handle the condis. I’ve gotten over the whole SA is OP idc because I can also use SA too. In all seriousness, whoooooo carrreeeessssss????

Exactly! Its a known fact that pvp’ers wont use SA, while SA is more necessary in wvw… I don’t think anyone has disagreed so far. Whats the point of this thread O.O

@messiah, Absolutely! I think it will always be a big problem with any build heavily basing their damage on conditions. I was just helping out a friend yesterday with some tips. The TL;DR version is only engage when they’re blind Any fights versus condition foes won’t be fast since they are typically very defensive. You just have to peel away at their hp!

@Hurtappl, Thank you Feel free to message me in game whenever you want!

XPGAMER.7324:

panicbutton.1053:

Even if you’re using SA and able to pull of a 1vX, that means your playing bads… plain and simple :/

Don’t you feel bad for murdering all the keyboard turners?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Some-Thoughts-By-Your-Local-D-D-Thief/first#post4215226

Direct Q.Q here

You’re being overly sensitive. You said earlier that you need SA to win fights. I’m implying that you can achieve what you’ve done with an SA-less build, because you fight bad players anyways.

Don’t forget the tone of your first reply on this post…

Also you should re-watch the videos you posted. The players are well below you.

Even if you’re using SA and able to pull of a 1vX, that means your playing bads… plain and simple :/

Don’t you feel bad for murdering all the keyboard turners?

TheThiefMaster.3812:

D/D may not be harder to learn per se but it sure as hell is harder to play than D/P . i’ve roamed with both its way easier to stay alive with D/P than any other set we got.

Keep in mind I’m not arguing build vs build I’m just talking weapon sets as they are.

I understand the argument, and I know were all experienced users here in the sense that everyone has at least learned a different weapon set. One should never associate themselves with a particular set of weapons, since they all have their place. However the points being made in this post are odd. It seems that people boast others for being successful with a weapon-set that is more handicapped than another. These aren’t the Special Olympics :/ The reality I’m trying to portray is that if two people are of equal skill level, there’s just no valid way that D/D would override D/P in any scenario.

For whatever reason, the Developer’s didn’t cut short on the D/P skill combination. The spec is great and utilizing a ridiculous amount of skill combinations to suit almost any niche. Ultimately what I’m trying to say is that since it has all of these combinations, it doesn’t make sense to say its the easiest build to use. Wouldn’t it be more intuitive to say that a weapon set with less skill combinations is easier to use?

XPGAMER.7324:

5. I don’t think a guide will change that, I mean theres a reason that the player chose d/p. It’s the easiest of any thief weaponset to learn, I don’t see much of a reason for a guide.

6. What do you intend to teach in the guide? 5 1 1 1 2 1, interupt with 4, 3 is gap close, 2 when their low. When your health gets low, heal. Stunbreak out of stuns. Don’t miss your mug. Sorry if I spoilled most of the guide for you

For point six, you pretty much nailed it, but you make it sound terrible. There’s large variations of moves that D/P’s are capable of achieving, especially with SB for offhand. All of the weapon skills are viable for D/P and have their place in a fight. You have access to dazes, stealth, blind, and the ability to remain glued to a target. Again, D/P uses all of it’s skills. My question is though, how do you feel about D/D then? D/D is even easier imo — You land CnD and go for a backstab, then occasionally heartseeker…That’s it. I love D/D and occasionally play it, but it’s pretty two dimensional and slow gameplay. Everything D/D does, D/P can do better. There is a big reason why S/D and D/P are used prominently.

For point five, are you implying that D/D is harder to learn?

D/P seems perfect the way it is, no matter how squishy you are! The target box for Shadow Shot is a little funky, but besides that it’s great. If anything they need to buff D/D so power builds can utilize Death Blossom… or in fact, just replace it completely.

@Nimrud, I’m almost sure S/D will receive a nerf in the near future for constant evades.

Most of the condi users I’ve run into recently seemed very new to the game, thus no good footage :/ There is a condi engineer in the video however even he could have been better. You might notice that I try my best to stay out of any red circles, unless I’m ready to burst.

I would say the same tactics in PvP apply for the condi users in WvW. First and foremost it’s important to get the jump, and then to keep them blind as best as possible. Typically the Balisk opener -> SS + backstab -> AA rotation -> Steal, is enough to make a necro go into shroud. Just keep applying pressure, blind, and fear from there and they pop. For good Engi’s I tend to shortbow a lot to negate conditions. The most luck I’ve had is peeling their life away with shortbow as much as I can, and then unexpectedly switching to D/P for a massive burst when they get comfortable with how defensive I’m being. The same tactic applies for meditation guards.

I have a very strict rotation when it comes to P/D thieves. The goal is to deny every single CnD, and only engage when they’re blind. I normally shadow shot in, and burst as much as I can within seconds, then dodge roll away creating a gap. This prevents them from using CnD or Shadow Strike, leaving them with pistol 1, or to Steal + CnD if they wanted too(so you can prepare to dodge this again). From here its just rinse and repeat… Shadow shot in, burst, then dodge away while theyre blind. Most thieves make the mistake of engaging a p/d thief face first, and tanking their Shadow Strikes + CnD. Once they jump into SR, its game over for them xD If you can make them react defensively then I think you’ll be dripping in gold.

Maybe for my next video I should put together a video versus conditions only? That might be fun :]

Thanks Nycke! If were talking style, let’s talk about your warrior which reminds me we should get back to dueling more haha!

Let’s all take a moment to thank the Dev gods that evis has a max target of 1 xD

@atse, Thanks! Recently took my training wheels off for WvW, thought it would be tough with all the condi users in wvw. Turns out to be easier than I thought :]

@Ritt, Much appreciated! There are a handful of mistakes in the video, some of which make me cringe.. But its always funny looking back at gameplay non the less. Also iv tried the panic strike build! Its pretty nasty IMO! Along with the burst combo you mentioned that can be a little complex to land xD I’ve always found it very useful to pace your steals and not necessarily opening up with one. You know this of course, but the timing of daze can turn a battle.

@Jip, thanks a ton! Felt like it took ages to get. Much appreciated

@Lolzie, I’m telling you… You’ll make me look bad You did convince me of going D/P though, so thanks sensai ;D Teach me all your ways!

@Coloxeus, thanks for the compliment, and the tip :] 6/6/0/0/2 is a beastly build as well!

@AlCojester, thank you! I’m glad you enjoyed it. It was fun to make

@Red, if anet implemented pajama skins, I promise I would be the first to get them xD And if it counts for anything, I recently undercut a super pistol skin to add some pew pew to my cuteness :}

I put together an entertaining montage with fun and epic fights I’ve had over the past month. Bringing you more footage of some great players, and new music There is also a small PSA at the very end that is very good to know versus warriors!

Please let me know what you think! <3

Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2arjm2/thief_video_harley_quinn_dp_26006_roaming_extra/

http://youtu.be/ZI4IMCuGyY0

Being unbiased, one can state the simple undeniable facts of strength versus condition builds:

- Condition builds rely on one stat to deal damage.
- Strength builds require the focus of three stats to deal damage.

From the two points above, one can see that conditions have more room to invest in survivability while retaining a large amount of damage, opposed to our strength based brethren. Differentiating the tactics that are used between both builds, p/d conditions retain high amounts of initiative while creating gaps between them and their enemy at will. Couple this with the high defenses that p/d conditions typically maintain, and you will have a very tough opponent. Other power builds typically invest in all damage, or damage and some defense. Their initiative pool is typically harder to maintain in most cases, and closing gaps between them and the enemy is crucial.

IMO if conditions where dependent on multiple stats just like power builds were, I feel that would be balanced and acceptable into our community. Until then, its undeniable that condition p/d is easier to play. There is much less risk involved if you’re always creating gaps that inflict damage, and have room in you’re build to maximize toughness and maintain high hp pools.

Michaeas Magister.1589:

panicbutton.1053:

^I suggest making a thief and trying it out before saying that. See how well you do Possibly even post a video of anyone you manage to down?

Thanks, but no thanks.

I tried a Thief but the mechanics of the class just ruins any fun for me playing it. When I go into combat, part of the thrill is not knowing just how it will turn out.

Will I kill the other player?

Will they kill me?

Will we in those wonderful but oh-so-rare moments manage to drop one another at the same time and have to fight it out with downed skills?

Knowing that I control every aspect of the battle and that my win (or easy retreat) is almost assured just is not fun for me. I know there are people that do enjoy the confidence that comes with that style of combat and for those people Arenanet made the Thief.

It’s just not for me is all.

Thanks.

Right, but that’s not the point I was trying to make, correct? I’m addressing that the poster before you has no idea what they’re talking about unless he’s referring to murdering low level players. If you agree with the earlier poster then i assume it would be easy for you to jump into the class and down some people in wvw, correct? So i challenge you to do so.

Fighting people of equal skill level is not easy as a thief~

that’s what I was trying to say

Nothings changed in terms of basic tactics and techniques for an entry level thief.

There are plenty of people that make awesome videos of roaming and PvP but they might not be newbie friendly. Also narration is pretty cool to have I mean…on occasion I run into a thief that didn’t even know about CnD -> Steal

I’ve been here since release and I thought I saw it all, until Thursday nights weekly OS duels. Chewed through any thief using any set until I saw some of the most unpredictable skill combinations that this particular thief (D/P) used against me.

It was absolutely beautiful. Anyways, working on my d/p skills now xD

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Renegade.6240:

Other classes have that, like ‘warrior for WvW ? go gs and lb if zerg, take hammer if roam’ but this is not the case for thief, and im asking why

I can’t even take this seriously — you must be joking.

Thief has a go to and there’s no other: D/P + SB

That’s it. Roaming, zerging, etc. One build. All other builds are made by rebels who wants to be different.

I have to agree here. There are a lot of competent builds out there but nothing can beat a truly skilled d/p player. The build is hands down a killer for any duel. You have access to daze, stealth, blind mechanics which are enough to shut anyone down.

I spent an hour dueling an amazing d/p thief that nailed down headshot to perfection. Almost anything an everything I did was denied including healing. It was sexy and humbling at the same time xD The amount of skill combinations and uses of fields is far more than any set we have.

I would recommend yishis channel on YouTube. He has great commentary for anyone that is new to a thief. He’s not biased, and gets straight to the point. Also has fantastic footage along side it all.

Doesn’t matter which weapon set you want to use, he will teach you great intuitive thinking on thieves.

^you make my work day go by quicker xD

<3

This thread got serious way too fast! The OP is known for three other troll posts before this one. Remember the guy that posted absurd nerfs and added people to his support list? Yeah, same guy… Hence my original reply above xD

Example: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Why-thief-should-be-re-worked/first#post4160468

Can you add me to the list of supporters?

^I suggest making a thief and trying it out before saying that. See how well you do Possibly even post a video of anyone you manage to down?

Sure you can run SA in PvP but what are you achieving that I’m not as a trick DP? Going trick will bring more utility to the team rather than popping into a selfish shadow refuge every 45 seconds, risking the lose of a point. Trick has more damage potential along side a deadly daze. Trick DP should not have an issues fighting a condition build if played correctly so that’s probably why you’re seeing a zerker mentality.

I always felt like SA was meant for WvW where you’re more able to get outnumbered in most cases. You can take your time in WvW, but in PvP time makes the difference.

Sure, it is a one trick pony but what does a SA dp build have over trick DP? If the answer is condi clearing, you shouldn’t have to worry about that in PvP if you’re keeping someone blind.

Your role is to relocate fast, and take down targets as quick as possible.

That’s an interesting perspective Sagat. Whenever I see a D/P SA in PvP, I look at them as free meat as a fellow 26006 player… They die quick after a basilk → daze combo.

The amount of thief non sense in this thread is amazing. I regularly seek out people in wvw that can put up a fight, and challenges exist in all the various classes. Thieves are not gods, but if you end up fighting one you better know your own class well.

Anyone saying how easy it is for a thief to kill someone, this is a l2p issue. If you’re dying fast within 5-10 seconds, then you are an up level or you have absolutely no idea how to deal with a thief. I know this because all I do is roam on my thief. If you have issues against them please PM me any questions.

That being said, I wish I was as good on and Elementalist as I was my thief. The number one class I have issues with handling is ele.

Delta Blues.8507:

There’s a game option that says something about automatically chosing a target enemy when using a skill when you have none selected. So what happens is you don’t have a target but someone’s chasing you, you press 2, the game picks the guy that’s following you as a target and makes you hs to them. Happens with steal as well.

^What Delta said xD

Go under your game options and disable auto targeting. If you have auto targeting on, you’re going to have a bad time.

Also if you feel like you nailed down P/D tactics pretty well and don’t get downed too often, try getting risky. I’ve found going full zerker gives 62% crit which opens up some more damage potential. The advantage lets you use fire + air sigil, with omnomberry pie food. You’ll have high crit and additional sources of damage making it much more aggressive.

I’m a fan of P/D power, it was the first video I made a some months ago. Its a fantastic set. Its a little weird combined with D/D though, I felt like you never needed that set with P/D. My reasoning was that it was hard to combine a defensive weapon set with an aggressive one. I guess it could be a good finisher though… But if you run P/D then I feel like that’s all you’d need.

What is the totally consecutive amount of time you can stay in stealth?

Can you down a ranger in a water fight?

How far can you punt an Asuran?

I can tell you don’t fight very good players because you have never met a tanky necro. A thief drops much faster than a necro. Try and run some games of PvP?

There is a reason venom share was introduced so long ago but people have not bothered utilizing it. Giving immobilize to your group does not make you a king — There are so many skills the negate immobilize, and you’re lucky to get most of its duration to stick even if you land it. Any other venoms a thief provides are sub par and extremely weak(in the hands of venom share). Like many have already said, thats why you’ll be more useful actually dedicating yourself to a normal spec instead of relying on long useless cooldowns.

Yeah I figured it was based on individuals. If I were in a competition I would just bring a necromancer instead. Spite + Epidemic has more utility apart from even using the staff skills. I think that’s the reason you won’t see venom share builds as often — other classes do it better.

Say you had two teams of five players. One has a venom sharing thief and the other has a condi necro. I’m certain the condi necrosis team would overpower the other team in conditions alone. They have fear utility and access to all conditions with without waiting on cooldowns.

It can work and it does work — there’s a bunch of venom share builds floating around. Typically for zergs, people prefer to AoE direct damage since it would be faster than waiting for any conditions. Same thing happens in dungeons, right? Would you bring condition builds to a fractal? The same logic applies in wvw zergs.

The build you use would be best for small group roaming imo. It would tear gaps in zergs or other groups. Though to fully utilize the procs, wouldn’t your other team members have to be conditions to do any decent damage with your venom share?

I apologize for the tone of my previous post, I have a nasty habit of flipping tables once I’m forced to fight a condi thief. I don’t have any right to tell you to stop playing condi but I can tell you that you will be frowned and looked down upon by many players. You can buy the gear and invest into the build but I promise you that outside of you group play, once you get bored and start roaming or dueling, no one will want to fight you. Its very typical for new players to start with condi, but once you flourish like the beautiful theif flowers that you are, you’ll look elsewhere for a faster and more tactical build

What newer players often overlook is the investments needed between condi and power to deal the appropriate amount of damage. To be successful at power, one must invest into three different stats. To be successful at condi, you only need one damage stat. It just so happens that because condi requires less, they can heavily invest in defensive stats which is all they need. If you combine massive amounts of damage with lots of defense and access of creating distance between you and the enemy whenever you want — you have a spec that is considered to be a little to OP by most of the community. Don’t believe me? Try to /m and ask people what they think of people running PD conditions.

It’s not your fault, anet left it that way. They wont do any serious balancing around it in WvW because zerging in a group can’t be balanced. It will also never be fixed because PD condi has no place in any serious PvP besides delaying the inevitable — them dying to any power based class.

Prepare to see a sea of uplevels getting slain by S/D 33333333333333.

100% agreeing with Amonatory agreeing with Babylonian. P/D condi can be played blind folded. No class is meant to take on more than one equally skilled player at a time. If it can, its cheese as kitten. He’s made two posts already where he tries to convince otherwise O.o If you don’t get it by now you probably never will.

^this

Jsjcjcjzoixjciviv

This guy is a funny troll! xD

You’re helping me through my work hours hahaha:
1. Poster: OP I disagree with you in every context imaginable.
2. OP: Great post! Glad to hear you on my side, I’ll add you as a supporter.

xD oh lordy.

The most popular builds for d/p are 2/6/6 and 2/6/0/0/6. For d/d its 2/6/6.

If you’re new to the thief class I would stay with 2/6/6 until you feel you can kill opponents quickly. 2/6/6 will give you condition mitigation and some training wheels in case you mess up. Once you feel comfortable you can try to see if the all-out-offensive 2/6/0/0/6 is right for you. You’ll do more damage but you’re also very squishy and vulnerable if you can’t keep your opponent blind.

Try running these builds in PvP just to get a lot of practice in a short amount of time.

I think i know what this calls for.

Nice try troll Just let this post sink to the bottom… bahaha you almost had me

Your suggestions essentially ask for turning a thief into an engineer, but far far worse with less utilities and less damage. Did you post this in the wrong forum? o.O

I only made it to your first point before my NOPENOPENOPE alarm went off :/ There is no point to stealth if you can see where a thief is walking. On the off note, try playing world of warcraft or any other game that has a rogue based character. Their stealth has an INFINITE timer — we have three seconds.

I would suggest you and your entire support-list make a thief character, and hop on into pvp. No really, just take 5 minutes out of your time and do it. Study what people will do against you, and then report back here ;] Was it easy? How fast were you melted? Could you survive under so much as implementing one of your suggestions? Because what you did is take the core of what it means to be a thief, and completely gutted the class by giving horrible and completely biased suggestions.

Also I’m absolutely sure that Kolly did not want to be on your “support” list. You should re-read his post.

I’m advocating 2/6/6 as a great s/d build. Pick up executioner and you’ll see some nice damage spikes. I’ve had a lot of success with it for roaming and duels.

2/0/6/0/6 used to be great but like Amon mentioned, it lost the damage potential. 2/0/0/6/6 is great for PvP but its too evasive in wvw. You spend too much time dodging and not enough time throwing punches. Its meant to hold a point, not quickly kill. 2/6/6 gives you a good constant critical % for sigil + omnom procs, which is great damage, along with exec. I have some vids down below that show some of the movements.

<3 Schade ain’t no carrying involved ;D

@Gloom, thanks for coming to those fights! You were scaring people away ;]

Thank you! Much appreciated