Guild Wars 2

I opened probably close to 10,000 ToT bags and didn’t get anything better than a recipe here and there that everyone has a ton of and I can honestly say I still haven’t had this much fun in an MMO holiday event before. I loved the GW1 events so I already had high expectations that would have been easy to miss. Arenanet have somehow manage to far exceed my already high expectations and I can’t wait to see what is in store for the other holiday events!

And for those saying the clock tower should have had no other players or like 4 max, I couldn’t disagree more. The other players being there was the perfect number. It made it difficult. Without other player, or with fewer players, that whole puzzle would have been trivial. I can’t tell you how many times I died because some Norn or Charr got in my way or because someone fell in a really hilarious way and I couldn’t stop laughing which caused me to mess up. Clock tower was perfect as it was.

There is indeed a witches hat for completing “Mad King says”. Still have a couple hours, get in there and get it!

Edit: Also, don’t forget to grab your free devil horns from the gem store.

Maxistin.3754:

You are aware that GW1 didn’t start out having Heroes or secondary professions. So, just because GW2 didn’t start out with those features doesn’t mean it won’t end up having it, if there’s enough demand.

Wut? GW1 started with secondary professions. There were no heroes, but there were henchmen and there certainly were secondary professions.

I just skimmed this and didn’t see this mentioned, but felt it was worth pointing out. You keep referencing back to GW1 as an MMO. Guild Wars was NOT an MMO. It was a single player RPG with an optional multiplayer aspect. In the making of book that comes with the CE of GW2, Arenanet even says explicitly that they NEVER said GW1 was an MMO. It was mistakenly reviewed as an MMO by game companies and hence forth mislabeled as one by the general community.

That being said, THAT’S why you had henchmen in GW1. It was, for all intents and purposes, a single player game. GW2 is a persistent MMO. The second M is for multiplayer, unlike GW1. Henchmen are not needed, nor do they make sense in GW2.

This is probably just a bug with how it’s displayed. I very highly doubt you won’t get your Emissary title and, even if you don’t right away, this is something that will be fixed. If you have all the required achievements you will get your title.

Icecat.4528:

you want the achievement? Yes – you gotta carve em. I would hope for better events than grind 100 tort bags, grind 150 pumkins, etc

Key word: want. You want the achievement. You do not need it. The carving grind is not required to level. The “I swung a sword” refers to quests that are required to level in most MMOs.

The difference is the “I swung a sword” he’s referring to is that most quests in traditional MMOs require “go kill 20 boars” and just swing your sword around. These quests are needed to level up. This pumpkin carving is 100% optional and is only on you if you complete it or not. Don’t compare apples to chainsaws. They’re not similar.

juno.1840:

I’m not convinced latency is my only issue either tbh.

I think the achievement was bad in retrospect… I’m not advocating removing it after the fact — not at all. That would be wrong. I appologize if I stated this (expressly or implied).

So do you disagree with making the puzzle client-side only? Would that diminish your experience in any way?

Yeah, suggesting that you wanted it removed is a fallacy on my part, my bad. I do disagree with you that it should have never been in still, but worded my posts incorrectly. I understood you, but still worded it wrong for some reason. And yeah I do disagree that it should be client side only because it would take out a major factor in the difficulty for me, and most other people.

Latency aside, having that many other people in there makes it harder and I enjoyed that. Arenanet made a good decision by limiting how many people were in each run and by preventing mini pets and pets from being able to enter. I also noticed pretty much everyone ran it naked to minimize armor or shields (my character is huge with a huge shield so I pulled those off both for me, and other players) and make it easier.

I can’t tell you how many times I failed because another Norn or a Charr were blocking my view, or because someone fell really hilariously right in front of me and my fits of laughter screwed me up. The other players being there forced me to be on edge and pay more attention than I probably otherwise would have. It also forced me to try and go as fast as possible to stay in front where I could see, which had the side advantage of putting me further ahead of the green liquid frustration rising behind me.

I liked having it be persistent and definitely do prefer it that way. Running it solo, with no obstructions and only being client side would have made it extremely trivial for me and I would not have felt as challenged. It being client side would also allow players to exploit it a lot easier, which would cheapen it.

juno.1840:

souldonkey.9534

Do you know why Arenanet hasn’t said anything on this thread? It’s because stuff like this, whether or not to have something be an achievement or not, is already discussed heavily in meetings before the content is released. They have a QA team that specifically runs this new content until their eyes bleed looking for what should be achievements, what should be made easier, and what should be more difficult.

I’m familiar with the software industry and development process. It’s not plausible to assume ANet nails it every time without mistakes. There’s no such thing as a zero-defect process.

We could play a game about what stuff the QA Team missed in GW2 so far… there’s no value in that so let’s not.

Myself, I am making assumptions on latency — but this is a server/client game (like all MMOs). I don’t think I’m far from the mark on server-based position calculations with client-side filtering and prediction. MMOs are not twitchy as a result (without degredation from latency). For something as positionally intense as the clock tower, I think it would be an improvement if it was a client-side exercise (and a solo event as a result).

ANet response, or lack there of, doesn’t really validate or invalidate a topic on the forums…

No, but what invalidates this topic is the other achievements that are in game currently that are affected by latency. There are a lot, 2 of which I posted already and you ignored. If they remove the achievement from one jump puzzle that is in any way related to latency than they have to remove it on all of them that depend on latency. That wouldn’t be a good idea in the slightest. Yes this puzzle is different because there’s a time aspect on it, but even if it wasn’t temporary and you had all the time in the world you still would have the same affects from latency.

I’m sorry you haven’t been able to complete it, but a very minimal minority of players that can’t complete it due to latency only (which I’m still not convinced is your only issue here) is not enough to take the achievement out of it for the people that busted their kitten to get the achievement in the first place.

Kimbald.2697:

@ souldonkey
If I do something only because it gives me an achievement, I’m not having enough fun doing it…

So don’t speak for me either

I couldn’t care less if it has an achievement or not.
Glad for you that it does, but I only do the things for the fun of it.

@ holska
a race by itself is not a puzzle. A race only against npc’s isn’t really entertaining.
A puzzle should be the challenge here, not the fact that others are doing the same thing as you.

I never spoke for anyone. I was simply stating that I was glad that it had an achievement and that I likely would not have completed it if it didn’t (which is kind of not true as I likely would have taken it as a personal challenge and had to finish it anyway). But yeah, I wasn’t speaking for anyone here. OP said specifically that people that enjoyed the puzzle would have enjoyed it the same if it had an achievement or not and I would not have. I would have thought the puzzle was cool without the achievement, but I would not have enjoyed it as much.

juno.1840:

MissKittin.1657:

I hate jumping puzzles (mostly because I suck at them)… Maybe one day I’ll make the effort to try. Now, I’m a completionist along with the rest of you, but there are some things that aren’t happening for me right now: It’s a video game, deal with it

(sorry to sound harsh, but really: The whining is becoming ever more toxic)

People are dealing with it… doesn’t mean we cannot discuss it in a constructive manner.

There is no whining in this thread (with the exception of the “I finished it, kitten until you’re awesome like me!”).

The original topic was about the achievement on this puzzle “as-is” was a bad idea. Since then it’s morphed into another discussion of how to improve the puzzle without decreasing its difficulty.

Do you know why Arenanet hasn’t said anything on this thread? It’s because stuff like this, whether or not to have something be an achievement or not, is already discussed heavily in meetings before the content is released. They have a QA team that specifically runs this new content until their eyes bleed looking for what should be achievements, what should be made easier, and what should be more difficult.

They had a team of people run this over and over and collectively that team decided that this was a hard enough task to warrant an achievement. And I’m inclined to agree with them. It’s a hard task, one worthy of an achievement. And for your argument of people that enjoyed it would have enjoyed it without the achievement, nope. Don’t speak for me. If there was no achievement I would have tried it, but probably wouldn’t have bothered after awhile.

Bottom line is that what you’re suggesting, that this not be an achievement because latency is out of your control and preventing you from completing the puzzle (something that is not confirmed, only suggested by you), simply would not work. If that was the case they would have to remove every achievement in the game that can be affected by latency which, technically speaking, could be any of them.

Goemm’s Lab jump puzzle. The windy one in Lornar’s. These are both jumping puzzles affected by latency (gusts of wind can knock you off and you have poor latency you’re going to have a harder time predicting them). They can’t simply remove achievements for difficult tasks just because latency may or may not be a factor. That’s an unrealistic suggestion and likely a good reason why Arenanet hasn’t chimed in on this topic.

This puzzle is quite difficult, regardless of latency, and deserves an achievement. I feel like I achieved something by completing it and I set aside time just to try and complete it so I feel like I earned my achievement. I’m sorry you can’t complete it, but I’m sure there are people that have poor latency that have still completed it. I’m also sure there are people that have good latency that have not completed it. Poor latency is not an excuse to remove an achievement from the game.

ChairGraveyard.2967:

No sorry that’s most certainly not what people want when they talk about field of view. I want to be able to put my field of fiew to 90 or 100 which is the industry standard for PC games on widescreen monitors. Right now it’s like looking through a tunnel at the ground, even at max distance zoomed out.

Extra zoomout would not help this at all, please don’t confuse the issue. We need better FoV, not bandaid fixes or excuses.

90 and 100 are not industry standard, btw. 75 Is typically the default FOV. The only difference with GW2 is that a lot of games that have a default FOV of 75 have sliders allowing you to increase it. 90 and 100 is definitely not an industry “standard” though. There really is no industry standard, but 75 is more common, and sliders to increase or decrease are also included in a decent amount of games.

Cernow.3974:

souldonkey.9534:

Yes it does…

It may not be super noticeable to some, but it’s very noticeable to me and to plenty of others. It also may not bother you at all, but it would bother some people, myself included.

Then don’t turn this option on (if they add it)! No-one is asking for the default FOV to be changed. We are asking for an OPTION to adjust the FOV for those that wish it. So it doesn’t have to bother you at all, you can continue to play the game exactly as you do now.

I know that, and I never disputed that. If an FOV slider were implemented I wouldn’t use it because of the fisheye effect. I was just pointing out that you’re incorrect in saying that it doesn’t exist. There is a fisheye effect. It may not bother you, but it’s there. That’s all I was saying.

Cernow.3974:

extending the FOV to 90 or 100 does not create a fisheye effect.

Yes it does…

It may not be super noticeable to some, but it’s very noticeable to me and to plenty of others. It also may not bother you at all, but it would bother some people, myself included.

Hammerholm.7218:

JonPeters, I’m sorry to say but your response to ALL of the FoV threads is just stupid in my hoenst opinion.
Why is it SO HARD for you and the dev team of GW2 to understand that FoV threads will continue to pop until you DO SOMETHING about this?!
A FoV of ~60 on a modern PC game is stupid, no matter what you blame it on, there is a reason there are tons of threads on the official and the unofficial forums discussing this topic every single day.

Sigh.

Yeah, be a raging infant and insult the employees. That’ll get the results your after…

Zoss.8476:

@souldonkey
I know I sound disrespectful, but I’ve always believed telling it straight and blunt is the best way to address things. It’s how I’ve always said things. It may sound bad, but it hits.

Yes, there are places that npcs run up to me for help and it triggers an event, but my path to 80 had a scare number of them.

@kKagari
I don’t want to slow down. Efficiency and speed is my game. I don’t want to wait around and HOPE that I get the next DE or something. Oh kitten, I sat there for 10 minutes and nothing happened. Well kitten Controlling a way a player plays is a no-no. If a player wants to slow down, he/she can by himself.

I’m only level 62 and I’ve hit dozens of them….Maybe pay more attention?

And your other points are pretty ridiculous as well. Direct and blunt do not necessarily mean you need to be a jerk. You can be blunt and not accuse a company of doing a half-kittened job on their game when it’s pretty freaking obvious to anyone that even remotely pays attention they put a lot of work into the DEs. That’s just rude and uncalled for. There’s no other way to describe it.

You complain that the dungeons mechanics don’t suite you and are of “fabricated” difficulty. Uhm…If they’re difficult how is that fabricated? The CCs (which were way worse in certain areas of GW1, btw) and the dodge or die is just a new form of difficulty. It’s not fabricated at all, that’s why it’s difficult. This is not another MMO, with that MMO’s difficulty mechanics. This is GW2 with GW2’s difficulty mechanics, and those are CCs and dodge.

And the gathering gripes you have are laughable at best so I’m not even going to bother to address how ludicrous it is that you can say that gathering in this game is bad compared to other MMOs. It is literally one of the best differences of this game compared to other MMOs.

I don’t have time to read all of this currently, I’m on my way out and this was the last link I clicked on. I got all the way to DEs so I’ll address that. Just FYI, a considerable amount of DEs are triggered events by players. There are NPCs that either have icons over their heads or will run up to you asking for help. Talk to them and they start a DE, so your complaint of not having them be triggered is rendered moot. Also, saying they half-kittened DEs is extremely disrespectful to the amount of work that goes into them and makes you look like a kitten, so I would recommend rewording that. I’ll come back later to read the rest of this.

Velvet.4678:

I feel it pertinent to mention that rerolling a new character- regardless of how different the quest chains are- is not endgame content.

And I never said it was. Just pointing out the fallacy of him saying rolling a new character would be leveling through all the same content again. It wouldn’t.

Tarka.9583:

Im with you Dro, all the way!!I played GW1 for 7 years!!!!! Yup 7 almost marriage breaking years!!!!
Im lvl 29 and bored stiff with GW2. Looks like my marriage will survive this one

So….go back to GW1? This just in, the servers are still on!!

Revenant.2691:

Please, indulge me with more of your smug pretentiousness.

I don’t think that word means what you think it means.

Revenant.2691:

So… roll a new character of a different race… and replay all the same content with a slightly different looking avatar you play in a slightly different way. It’s like a veil has been lifted from over my eyes. Thank you!

Yeah, you’re adding a lot to the discussion. Thanks for that.

Actually your leveling experience will be very different on alts as your biography choices change your story quests and bring you to zones your previous story quests didn’t. So just make different choices when creating your character and you’ll have a different leveling experience.

Noobler.2679:

I can’t name any zone in this buggy mess that doesn’t have zone-breaking bugs of some type or another. The OP got the subject title completely right. Every aspect of this buggy mess has an UNFINISHED and rushed to market feel to it (other than the artwork, which is very well done).

Not everyone’s experience is the same as yours. I’ve run into very few bugs. Some servers seem to be worse than others, which I’m sure is part of the problem of finding and fixing the bugs. It’s been 1 month, they’ll sort the bugs out. They just need the time to do it right. Would you rather they rush bug fixes and make things worse or do it right the first time?

Revenant.2691:

Erm, lemme step in here for a minute. I’ve been playing a new character, and I can say with absolute certainty that I’ve come across more bugged/stalled DEs than working ones from level 1-40. Also 5-6 bugged skillpoints or other objectives that worked fine my first time through, which have me sitting at 98% completion on literally half the zones I’ve cleared on that char.

I’m not going to say that it’s unreasonable to have a bug or glitch here and there on release, but I feel like I paid $60 for a beta test. Now surely the OP could have expressed himself in a more civil manner and whatnot, but when I see hordes of people coming into topics like this flaming the tar out of anyone who dares to mention that the game’s got a lot of broken content… I’m half-tempted to say “fine, have it your way, game’s fine as it is. Leave it all broken, these guys seem to love it well enough.”

Revenant.2691:

Erm, lemme step in here for a minute. I’ve been playing a new character, and I can say with absolute certainty that I’ve come across more bugged/stalled DEs than working ones from level 1-40. Also 5-6 bugged skillpoints or other objectives that worked fine my first time through, which have me sitting at 98% completion on literally half the zones I’ve cleared on that char.

I’m not going to say that it’s unreasonable to have a bug or glitch here and there on release, but I feel like I paid $60 for a beta test. Now surely the OP could have expressed himself in a more civil manner and whatnot, but when I see hordes of people coming into topics like this flaming the tar out of anyone who dares to mention that the game’s got a lot of broken content… I’m half-tempted to say “fine, have it your way, game’s fine as it is. Leave it all broken, these guys seem to love it well enough.”

so your experience is the only one we should go by? I have the first 4-5 zones for every race 100% completed across 5 characters and not one single bugged heart and only 1 bugged DE. That’s part of the issue. Some servers have bugs that other servers do not and Arenanet are working on finding and fixing all of them. It’s going to take some time, but they’ve already been doing a great job of it.

Oh look, this thread again…

Dracent.9153:

Can you name an endgame zone with no area-breaking bugs?

So you’re basing your “Majority of game is not working” on the what, 3? end game zones?

lolwut?

AndrewWaltfeld.4621:

souldonkey.9534:

This has literally been answered a dozen times. Useless thread is useless. Inb4 inevitable close and redirect to existing thread since OP is not capable of searching the forums himself.

To a thread that is sticky even.

Indeed. It doesn’t even require using the search function. Just a couple of clicks…

First of all, your titles is sensationalist and completely inaccurate. The MAJORITY of the game is working just fine. There are bugs and glitches, but it is certainly not the majority of the game. I don’t think you know what that word means. And as far as refunds, they already have issued refunds. If you request one (in a timely fashion) I’m sure you’ll get one. That being said, get the hell over yourself. This game (nor any others) were ever going to release with 0 bugs. They’ve done well fixing most of the bugs and done poorly fixing other bugs, but the point remains that they ARE working on fixing them and that the majority of the game is functioning properly.

This has literally been answered a dozen times. Useless thread is useless. Inb4 inevitable close and redirect to existing thread since OP is not capable of searching the forums himself.

Apakal.5718:

Bull Charge, Frenzy and Hundred Blades. Nothing to see here. Learn to dodge. If that Thief would have made him miss, he would have owned that Warrior in the next 5 seconds and the Warrior would have been unable to do anything.

Pretty much this. I’ve run this in PvP before and basically the only time it works is when people can’t see the horribly obvious twirl before bull’s charge and don’t dodge out of the way or if I get extremely lucky. Also, in order to get that kind of damage you have to spec as a glass cannon. Good luck getting away alive if this combo misses…

Edited some of the ideas for cosmetic changes since a fe wof my first ideas didn’t make much sense. Just throwing some ideas out there that might make the game apeal to differnt kinds of players.

So I’ve been reading a decent amount of posts that contain roughly the following idea:

“I miss grinding for max stat gear because it gives me a sense of progression. Grinding for Legendary gear is available, but there isn’t enough incentive considering how much harder it is to get Legendary gear compared to Exotic gear.”

I propose an idea to help both sides here, without having to increase the stats on gear above Exotic level. This was posted by me in another thread but I wanted to post it here to see if there’s actually any interest in it. Right now, I think we can all agree on the following:

• Getting max stat Exotics is pretty simple
• Grinding dungeons for vanity gear doesn’t appeal to everyone
• Getting Legendary items requires a massive amount of dedication and work (as it should)

My proposal:

You could have additional tiers of gear beyond Exotic. It would look something like this:

[leveling]
Junk
Basic
Fine
Masterwork
Rare

[max stats]
Exotic

[“shiny”] (yes that’s a skritt reference)
Elite
Prestige
Legendary

The elite and prestige sets would be slightly easier to obtain than the legondary sets, but would still look better than exotic and would be harder to get than exotic.

Maybe have the elite gear involve long event chains that involve exploration all over Tyria to complete. Think black moa chick from GW1. A massive exploration chain where you would do events that branch off of one another and have the requirement of doing the previous event in the chain to be able to do it.

And the Prestige set can be something that involves running multiple explore mode dungeons down certain paths through those dungeons to obtain specific items or something.

Legendary would obviously stay the same or be a combination of the 2. It is legendary after all.

Another suggestion would be to add “cosmetic” stat bonuses to certain items. An example would be Nicholas Sandford’s Cloak (just one idea). Obtain this item by achieving 100% map completion and using waypoint travel to every waypoint in game at least once to get an armor skin that grants a 25% discount to waypoint travel costs or something.

You could have others that grant less fall damage, increased movement speed out of combat, or even gem store boosts that are bound to a piece of armor and have a 24 hour (or longer) cool down. Say like a set of gloves that give crafting boost for an hour and has a 48 hour cooldown or something.

These are just some of the cosmetic stat bonuses I’ve thought of, and they would obviously not be applicable to sPvP or WvW. They should be limited to PvE only and not provide any game play advantages beyond some basic cosmetic ones (that’s why the movement speed increase would only work out of combat).

So, thoughts? Improvements? Completely hate the idea? Let’s hear it.

Roargathor.2743:

Yay, another gear grinder post. Why do I enjoy reading the lamentations of the wow-washed so much?

You obviously didn’t read much of it…

Mastoras.9680:

First of all i agree with OP and im in the same mindset. But reality is, it probably wont change to that type of system where gear gets better “stats”.

I propose this:

Give harder to obtain gear give you “other” boosts that you could not get anywhere else.

For example:

What if there was gear higher then exotics but included legendaries that started including bonuses such as:

“Reduce Waypoint costs by 25%”
“Allow you to spy on characters info sheet – stats, gear, etc…
“Reducing falling damage by 50%”
“Allow to pickup items from broker anywhere”

Anyways those buffs might be retarted but the point is to have additional bonuses to harder obtained gear, then just pure cosmetic, but type of bonuses that dont really affect your combat.

Nicholas Sandford’s Robes

Transmute only: Retains stats of gear that skin is applied to, but adds a 25% discount to Waypoint costs.
Soulbound on Pickup

Obtained by visiting every waypoint in game once and reaching 100% map completion.

hmmm…..

Oh look, another one of these threads….

Moonpuncher.7250:

That was mentioned earlier, and it’s almost exactly what I want. Ideally, I wish you could get a LITTLE more powerful with better gear past exotic. Or, have different levels of exotic gear. It feels weird that I can run out and spend 10g to outfit myself in the best gear in the game.

I digress. One of my main complaints here is that the only hands-down “better” gear in the game takes months on end to farm. So while you and I quibble over which set might look better than the other, very few people would venture that legendary items look just as good as the level 80 stick I currently swing around.

So yes, this would make me MUCH happier. And through many of my posts here you can see that I’m bothered by the tremendous “gap” between exotic and legendary, both from a time AND quality standpoint. We can get some amazing particle-infused weapon after a year of farming, or we can swing around a variety of level 80 exotic swords that look like something I looted from a Risen corpse.

Something in between, please!

I’ll agree with everything here except having them be even marginally better stat wise. I really really like that everyone has the same stats at 80 as it levels the playing field and encourages players to learn their profession more and become more skilled. But have tiers on the difficulty of obtaining gear wouldn’t be a bad thing in my opinion.

You could have your tiers something like this:
[leveling]
Junk
Basic
Fine
Masterwork
Rare

[max stats]
Exotic

[“shiny”]
Elite
Prestige
Legendary

The elite and prestige sets would be slightly easier to obtain than the legondary sets, but would still look better than exotic and would be harder to get than exotic.

Maybe have the elite gear involve long event chains that involve exploration all over Tyria to complete (think black moa chick from GW1). And the Prestige set can be something that takes a lot of karma or involves running multiple exp mode dungeons down certain paths through those dungeons to obtain or something. Legendary would obviously stay the same.

Moonpuncher.7250:

Exclusivity. And I realize MANY People may differ here. But I rather like seeing someone with a set of armor and saying to myself “Oh man, that dude farmed the crap out of some dungeons!” or “That guy is really high up in PvP”. So the time sink isnt what I love about it, but I love that the way people look and the power they have is often a result of how hard they’ve worked.

You do realize that you literally just said you like seeing people with awesome looking gear and knowing how long it took them to get, which is exactly what GW2’s gear grind is right?

You like seeing people in awesome gear and knowing that they worked hard for it. That’s exactly what you have. If you see someone in a full dungeon set you know they busted their kitten running dungeons to get it. I understand that you like the stats as well, but this statement just shows that you like seeing people in armor that they worked hard for. In GW2 people have to work hard to get armor that they want to show off. So…that’s what your looking for…?

I was going to quote Omega but it appears his post has been removed (couldn’t have anything to do with being inflammatory and insulting or anything could it?), but honestly Omega, I think you leaving is for the best for everyone. I hate to see people leave this game, but it’s obviously not your cup of tea and I really don’t care to be insulted or have any further discussions with someone who obviously just doesn’t enjoy this type of game.

Moonpuncher.7250:

OdinBudd.5298:

Please ANET, don’t listen to this fool. He is a typical “me, me, me, give me what I want now” child who has walked into McDonalds and is demanding a Whopper. Gee, maybe you should have done your research before dropping $60 on a game that has, and for quite some time, advertised itself as having no gear grind. Yet, here you are demanding one. Seriously, L2read and do some research before wasting your money in the future. Oh…and go back to WoW. :P

I really enjoy this conversation. But I don’t think I’ve called anyone a fool. Generally, I find the more name-calling you have to show, the less credibility your argument has. If you replace “fool” with good quality persuasion you might get somewhere. Dumdumpants.

I agree with this. Moonpuncher is in no way a fool and name calling doesn’t get anyone anywhere. Moonpuncher is stating his desires and presenting reasons as to why he enjoys the stat gear grind. If you’re not going to contribute the discussion you can leave. I’d rather have people say this game doesn’t have X feature that they enjoy int than have personal insults thrown all over the place.

That being said, I think my last post kind of sums up what the main point of this thread is. That the “carrot” in GW2 is different than the “carrot” in most MMOs and that, in my opinion, it should stay that way because frankly, I’m sick of carrots and I think I want to chase after that banana now.

Omega.5682:

souldonkey.9534:

Omega.5682:

souldonkey.9534:

Omega.5682:

souldonkey.9534:

Omega.5682:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ITT: Players bought an MMO with a well advertised PvP endgame, where skill shines over gear and were expecting something different.

What skill? How is there any player skill in this game? Please substantiate your claim.

Lol, why are you in every thread I’m reading trying to flex your “skills”. Seriously dude, you really need to get over yourself. I’ve found that people like you, people that flaunt how “skilled” they are, are often the least skilled in whatever they’re discussion. I’m sure you may think this game requires no skill and that you’re so amazing, but I very highly doubt that’s true.

I guess you can’t read. I said there are NO Player skill requirements in the game. Therefore, I did not contend to have any. The game does not even offer the ability to be skillful. I hope you can read one day, and deduce a logical argument. I hope!

It absolutely does require skill, and to imply it doesn’t is to imply that your are so skillful that it doesn’t require skill. Try doing explorable dungeons with 0 skill. It’s not going to happen.

You really want to say doing exp dungeons requires skill? Its the same as anything else. You go to the dungeon, you wipe, you learn, then you remember….. Not to mention, you just zerg each boss, avoid red circles on the ground, and of course play ranged.

please try again.

“and of course play ranged.”

Oh, my bad. I was wrong, you were right. You aren’t skilled. If this your mentality than you don’t actually have skill, so thanks for clearing that up.

Signed,
A melee explorable dungeon runner

And now, you are a hypocrite. Thank you!

Nope, I’m not claiming to be skilled. I’m just saying if you say you have to play ranged then obviously melee is too hard for you. It’s really not that hard, you just have to pay attention when to dodge. It takes skill, though, which is my point. The game takes skill, despite your claims that it does not.

Moonpuncher.7250:

I want to re-state my argument to be a little less inflammatory, since I’m having fun poking and getting poked and losing track of the reason I started this thread.

Let me tell you something I like about MMO gaming, without assuming all of the negative connotations attached to it.

I like logging in every week and knowing my character is a little better than he was last week. That “progression” is part of why I like playing an MMO. I’ve learned to part from that a bit when I started playing MOBA-type games, but a good ol-fashioned MMO should, in my opinion, let me progress bit by bit.

Now we’re arguing about what exactly constitutes “progression” and that’s fine. For me, it’s saying “Look at that new helm you handsome buck! All that crit damage, and that cool glowing effect!”. For some of you, it’s seeing your total world completion going up. Either way, the feeling that you’re changing your character for the better appeals to many of you, as it appeals to me.

This game, however, isn’t offering me much in the way of improvement at this point. Now I can log in and say “Wow, I’m 20k karma closer to legendary, which puts me on track for November 2013!”. I need a little more than that if I’m going to bother with a persistent MMO.

And the worst part is that ANET agrees with me! Sure, they may have taken a stance against gear power. But they’re offering bit-by-bit progression. That’s why there’s 80 levels in this game. If people didn’t care about chasing the carrot on the stick, this would be a type of MOBA, where everyone logs in as a level 80 with max gear and roams through the game for fun. But I somehow doubt you’d put chickens in their cages in the level 35 zone to fill up the renown heart and buy some okra if you didn’t need to gain another level.

So bottom line here is this:

This game offers many rewards once you reach level cap. These rewards are not rewarding to you. Therefore you feel like you have no reason to play because you have no sense of progression/reward for doing so.

This all makes sense, but it still comes beck to my original point of this game being different. This game is an alternative to other types of MMOs. The rewards or “carrot” as it’s often referred are going to be different. This games rewards/progression appeal to me the same way GW1’s rewards appealed to me. Hence I very much enjoy the game and feel rewarded.

Bottom line, I don’t think this game will ever be rewarding for you. We’re chasing different carrots or, more accurately, you’re chasing carrots and I’m chasing bananas.

Omega.5682:

souldonkey.9534:

Omega.5682:

souldonkey.9534:

Omega.5682:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ITT: Players bought an MMO with a well advertised PvP endgame, where skill shines over gear and were expecting something different.

What skill? How is there any player skill in this game? Please substantiate your claim.

Lol, why are you in every thread I’m reading trying to flex your “skills”. Seriously dude, you really need to get over yourself. I’ve found that people like you, people that flaunt how “skilled” they are, are often the least skilled in whatever they’re discussion. I’m sure you may think this game requires no skill and that you’re so amazing, but I very highly doubt that’s true.

I guess you can’t read. I said there are NO Player skill requirements in the game. Therefore, I did not contend to have any. The game does not even offer the ability to be skillful. I hope you can read one day, and deduce a logical argument. I hope!

It absolutely does require skill, and to imply it doesn’t is to imply that your are so skillful that it doesn’t require skill. Try doing explorable dungeons with 0 skill. It’s not going to happen.

You really want to say doing exp dungeons requires skill? Its the same as anything else. You go to the dungeon, you wipe, you learn, then you remember….. Not to mention, you just zerg each boss, avoid red circles on the ground, and of course play ranged.

please try again.

“and of course play ranged.”

Oh, my bad. I was wrong, you were right. You aren’t skilled. If this your mentality than you don’t actually have skill, so thanks for clearing that up.

Signed,
A melee explorable dungeon runner

Omega.5682:

I just can’t believe people on this thread really want to make the argument that the Gw2 cosmetic grind model is different from the WoW gear grind model.

They are the same. It is not innovative.

Grinding gear with better stats required to complete end game content = required grind for the sake of grinding.

Grinding gear that looks pretty but having easy access to gear with stats required to complete end game content = optional grind for the sake of wanting to look better.

They are not the same. At all…

Omega.5682:

souldonkey.9534:

Omega.5682:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ITT: Players bought an MMO with a well advertised PvP endgame, where skill shines over gear and were expecting something different.

What skill? How is there any player skill in this game? Please substantiate your claim.

Lol, why are you in every thread I’m reading trying to flex your “skills”. Seriously dude, you really need to get over yourself. I’ve found that people like you, people that flaunt how “skilled” they are, are often the least skilled in whatever they’re discussion. I’m sure you may think this game requires no skill and that you’re so amazing, but I very highly doubt that’s true.

I guess you can’t read. I said there are NO Player skill requirements in the game. Therefore, I did not contend to have any. The game does not even offer the ability to be skillful. I hope you can read one day, and deduce a logical argument. I hope!

It absolutely does require skill, and to imply it doesn’t is to imply that your are so skillful that it doesn’t require skill. Try doing explorable dungeons with 0 skill. It’s not going to happen.

Moonpuncher.7250:

I see a lot of arguments with the same structure and the same problem. The arguments are paraphrased as follows:

1. The game was advertised as not being a gear grind.
2. The game is a vanity grind.
3. Therefore, grind vanity.

And I have responses to this argument, which applies to many of you.

1) Advertised as X doesn’t mean I don’t have the right to wantY. It might mean I should have known not to expect it, but I can still want it.
2) Show me the true vanity items for an asura ele. Most of the cloth in this game looks the same, which means my only real options for weapons or gear is to spend HUNDREDS of gold. A game is going to need smaller rewards that take place more often to keep people’s interest. To stretch this out, would you really play this game for an entire year to get an item, with no rewards in between? Doubtful.
3) It’s a grind either way kiddos. So if you’re hating me for grinding stats, you should point the same dirty finger at grinding vanity.

I’m ready to play your game. Show me all the awesome things I can buy with the 40g I’ve amassed. I’m ready to look cool and buy weapons that look even a LITTLE better than the basic crafted stuff.

1) Advertised as X doesn’t mean I don’t have the right to wantY. It might mean I should have known not to expect it, but I can still want it.

You’re absolutely correct. You can want whatever you want. However, why bother posting “I want this feature that has been advertised as not going to be in this game”? Do you think Arenanet are going to read this and think “hey, this guy wants a gear treadmill. Mayb we should completely abolish our entire game structure and revert back to the ways of traditional MMOs since some people like that.” No, they’re going to stick to being different because if you want gear tread,ills there are already plenty of games to choose from. GW2 is meant to be an alternative not a competitor. That’s the part I think a lot of people don’t get. This was never meant as a WoW killer. It was meant as a WoW alternative.

2) Show me the true vanity items for an asura ele. Most of the cloth in this game looks the same, which means my only real options for weapons or gear is to spend HUNDREDS of gold.

This is opinion. You will not like the same gear that I like. If there’s no gear that you like the look of than you’re correct. You have nothing to grind for, but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t items for other people to grind for. Plenty of other people in the game like the look of light armor. This is unfortunate, but no developer can please everyone when it comes to matters of personal taste.

3) It’s a grind either way kiddos. So if you’re hating me for grinding stats, you should point the same dirty finger at grinding vanity.

Yeah, I personally (and a few others) have not denied that there is a grind. The difference here is that this grind is optional. In WoW, for example, if I want to stay competitive I have to grind for the best gear or I get left behind. In GW2 I can get the best gear pretty easily and then I only have to grind if I want to look cooler. I like this model better. Not everyone will but again, that comes back to my point about this game being an alternative rather than a competitor/clone.

Omega.5682:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ITT: Players bought an MMO with a well advertised PvP endgame, where skill shines over gear and were expecting something different.

What skill? How is there any player skill in this game? Please substantiate your claim.

Lol, why are you in every thread I’m reading trying to flex your “skills”. Seriously dude, you really need to get over yourself. I’ve found that people like you, people that flaunt how “skilled” they are, are often the least skilled in whatever they’re discussion. I’m sure you may think this game requires no skill and that you’re so amazing, but I very highly doubt that’s true.

Omega.5682:

How about MOGOTY:

“Most Overrated Game of the Year”:

Endless grinds, no depth, zerg pvp, no skill requirements.

So bad, what a waste of time.

I’ve seen no less than a dozen posts of you just bashing the game. It begs the question: why are you still here? If you hate this game so much why are you posting on its forums? I dislike WoW and Rift. Do I go to their forums and post about how much I hate the game play? No. You know why? Because I’m not a 6 year old that thinks the whole world revolves around me and that all games should be made exclusively to my tastes and mine alone. This game is clearly not built to your liking, therefore go play one that is and gtfo these forums.

Yeah 80g seems about right for a vanity item. I don’t know if you ever played GW1 but even that game was all about getting the coolest looking gear and not the best stats. Getting gear with the best stats at 20 (GW1’s level cap) was relatively inexpensive and easy. It wasn’t cheap, but it wouldn’t break the bank either. The more prestigous armors however, the 15k sets, Vabbian, Obsidan. All of these were expensive as hell. The 15k sets were 15k per piece.

Example:

Warrior Prestige or “elite” armor, bought only for it’s appearance: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warrior_Elite_Platemail_armor

75k (equal to 75g in GW2), plus 400 iron ingots (common crafting material) and 40 deldrimor steel (uncommon crafting material).

If you didn’t have the mats that would easily be 90-100k total in mat costs + crafting costs. That’s 90-100g in GW2. It’s the same basic design as it has always been.

And for the really prestigious sets:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Elementalist_Vabbian_armor

25k total (25g in GW2) plus very very rare mats. You could spend weeks to months grinding for those mats or spend a ton of gold to buy them. I think before the economy crapped because of the HoM rush those mats would run you roughly 200k if you bought all of them. So that’s 225k for one set of prestige armor. Obsidan wasn’t much less than that either.

Hope that helps understand Anet’s motives a bit. And as far as it goes, I’d rather have to grind for tokens knowing that I’ll get the gear pieces I want with those tokens, rather than grind dungeons with an RNG and hope I get the piece I want. I know how many dungeon runs it will take to get the amount of tokens I need. Once I have the tokens I can buy the gear I want with them. I once ran a dungeon 37 times in WoW just for 1 piece of gear. In those 37 runs that piece dropped twice. The first time I lost the roll so I had to keep running it and hope it would drop. For me, that is not fun. This is.

Moonpuncher.7250:

I love the “why dont you go back to wow” posts (because lets face it, that’s what you’re really saying).

My response is simple: if I’m feeling a void here and ArenaNet doesn’t find a way to fill it, that’s exactly what me and many, many other people might do. I think “dont like it? then leave” is a poor response to concerns like this. And I’m quite certain ArenaNet would like to figure out a better resolution than “just quit the game”.

So let’s keep the conversation productive instead of trying to get me to leave the game

No, dude. You’re not listening. What we’re saying is that from day one this game has ADVERTISED itself as not having a gear treadmill or a grind to get the best gear in the game. This game has been advertised for 5 years that skill will be the determining factor and that, because of that, there will be no grinding for the gear with the best stats. You bought the game expected exactly the opposite of what they told you it would be. They are not going to change it as it would negate their entire design.

If anyone is saying go to WoW it’s only because that game is catered for people like you, that enjoy the gear grind. It’s not an insult, it’s just pointing out that this game does not, and will not, have that. So in that case, WoW or Rift or ToR are all better choices for you. Here, the only gear grind is for vanity gear. You grind for the gear that has the appearance you like, not the stats. And again, that has been advertised since the beginning. If you didn’t get that, that’s your own fault.

“please believe me this is not FUN, even if you have convinced yourself that it is, lol.”

You don’t speak for me and please don’t tell me what is fun for me. And as for your WvW example how is it balanced if one side is losing a battle and calls for reinforcements that can almost instantly be there to reinforce them? That is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. It absolutely should take you a measurable amount of time to get to the battle otherwise the zergs that already control WvW maps would be unstoppable.

Seriously? Why would you even bother with this post? Obvious troll post is obvious. This game has said there would be no gear grind consistently over the past 5 years. If you bought it expecting there to be a gear grind that’s your own fault, man. The whole premise of this game is to be different. Why would a different game strive to do the same crap all the other MMOs on the market are doing? That would literally negate the entire point of being different. This thread is pointless and should really be deleted or locked…