Guild Wars 2

raphaeldisanto.5478:

Shroom Mage.9410:

. There’s still incentive to play better, but only if you want to be one of those “elite” players.

And that’s the way it should be.

Not all of us play for challenge. Not all of us find challenge fun. Some of us just play to chill out, relax and watch some pretty pixels on our screens fall over.

If you want to challenge yourself, find a group of like-minded people, and don’t use the waypoints until you all wipe.

There’s nothing in the mechanics preventing you from playing the way -you- want to play.

Should all loot be available by grinding content by easy means (e.g. Waypoint zerg). Or, should there be some loot/rewards that are only available by completing content without such means?

Should not there be something in the game that requires a well organized group of 5 people to kill content without cheapening the experience via the aforementioned “easy means”? Why should everyone be aloud to get everything by just putting in a predetermined amount of time? Why should there not be content that requires execution of mechanics, and not cheap workarounds?

Edit:

I suppose to put it more simply, why should you get the same loot as someone who does content without using waypoints? Should the more dedicated players get pretty armor that less skilled players can not achieve without putting in the same dedication?

Spoolooni.6712:

twiddlesticks.3791:

Gray.9650:

Spoolooni.6712:

Obviously you haven’t played the higher end dungeons where the closest waypoint is ridiculously placed 50 seconds apart w/o speed buff. Also, with dungeons that already work a player through sweat and dirt, walking an extra mile more than a few times is absurdly stupid, especially for a purely damage-built character.

yeah, I’d love to see the OP do subject alpha last stage after his suggestion made it live.

he also doesn’t seem to know that once enough players die at once the boss resets because he loses aggro.

Hermod.2643:

I much rather lose over and over

with that change you will. wanna bet how fast you’ll be back here asking to roll it back?

6 years of WoW. Which stopped you from releasing your soul when you died during a boss fight. And only allowed you to release and run back, after the boss was reset or dead. Never did I complain about the very thing I am asking for.

I doubt anyone who’s asking for the change would ask for it to be changed back to what it is now.

Once/if it made it live, bosses could be balanced to a better state than what they are currently. As it stands, cheap tactics are allowed in boss fights, simply because you can run back and still kill the boss.

First of all, I don’t give a single crap about your past wisdom in WoW, we’re discussing Gw2 related systems. Secondly, most of the dungeons in WoW cannot compare to the elaboration in the difficulty that exists in Gw2. So instead of using your wisdom you got from the previous game you played, how about actually strutting yourself to crucible of eternity of arah dungeons before making such a lackluster statement.

Not sure what made you type words that make you seem angry…

I pointed out WoW, simply because the two things I was comparing were apples to apples. 5 man dungeons, with bosses, that give loot. You go through the mechanics, you get your loot. Same thing, both games.

Now, if that fight is as hard you as make it sound. It’s doing exactly what I am asking for. Taking the waypoints out of the equation. I honestly haven’t done that boss. What’s wrong with eliminating waypoints from other boss fights?

Gray.9650:

Spoolooni.6712:

Obviously you haven’t played the higher end dungeons where the closest waypoint is ridiculously placed 50 seconds apart w/o speed buff. Also, with dungeons that already work a player through sweat and dirt, walking an extra mile more than a few times is absurdly stupid, especially for a purely damage-built character.

yeah, I’d love to see the OP do subject alpha last stage after his suggestion made it live.

he also doesn’t seem to know that once enough players die at once the boss resets because he loses aggro.

Hermod.2643:

I much rather lose over and over

with that change you will. wanna bet how fast you’ll be back here asking to roll it back?

6 years of WoW. Which stopped you from releasing your soul when you died during a boss fight. And only allowed you to release and run back, after the boss was reset or dead. Never did I complain about the very thing I am asking for.

I doubt anyone who’s asking for the change would ask for it to be changed back to what it is now.

Once/if it made it live, bosses could be balanced to a better state than what they are currently. As it stands, cheap tactics are allowed in boss fights, simply because you can run back and still kill the boss.

EliteZ.1682:

Oh btw the fights wouldn’t be very fast paced if 2 members died within the first min and the other 3 was left to try and kill the boss themselve (which would be alot longer then having all 5 members alive) nor would the dungeon be more fast paced if once those 2 members died you had to all die and wipe in order to have a shot at downing the boss because on wow the longest parts of a boss is the wiping parts, waiting for everyone to run back buffing up, that doesn’t sound very fast paced to me

GW2 doesn’t have the “buffing up” phase of a fight. You can pretty much pull as soon as you are back.

Dodging and staying alive is what makes a fight fun, and fast paced. ANET has avoided the rolls of sitting in front of a boss and making it angry; staring at a grid of player health; and mindlessly going through a rotation. Avoiding those rolls is what makes for a better game, and I applaud them for it.

They’ve also avoided long run back, by having a waypoint system. Which if they gave a waypoint to each bosses room, after they were downed, it would be even better.

A fight should be spent attacking a boss, avoiding its damage, and helping the other players.

There should be some content that is difficult on its own merits, and not because it’s cheap or broken. Holding a boss in combat while people run back should not be an option to kill a hard boss.

I agree with the OP. I don’t see anything bad about what he is putting forward. Having people complete dungeons to get gear is a better option than farming the first boss or two. Spreading out helm, boots, gloves, etc… tokens to all dungeons will help with getting people to play all the content. It’s a really good idea.

EliteZ.1682:

Indeed, explorable version is for the hardcore pve players, it’s not suppose to be easy, you couldn’t pug heroic DW on wow… actually by now you prob could, but if you’re not a sersious pve player with good skill and a guild to do it with, then don’t attempt them. Just because they are there doesn’t mean you have to do them. Stick with Story Mode untill you’re good enough to do exp. It’s the same with everyone moaning now how they’ve made CoE harder because it was way too easy compared to some of the other dungeons, it’s suppose to be hard!

Ok, let’s think about the other side of things. Where is the content for the hardcore players? Explorable dungeons are to easy, as it stands. Perhaps there should be an option for “Hardcore Explorable”, or something like that. In which you would be unable to use waypoints during boss battles; unable to get up a dead ally. And possibly have an extra mechanic on a boss fight.

Fast paced action is in the combat, not in the running back. Great, you’ve just run back and defeated a boss. What have you learned about that boss? What effort did you have to expend in defeating that boss?

As an example, let’s look at the last boss in Sorrows Embrace. You have to either get behind the wall, or be out from there. You also throw stuff at the boss. This fight is well tuned; it has good mechanics; and a reasonable learning curve. With the music, it’s quite the epic encounter.

However, the immersion into the fight, and intensity of dodging the fire is lost when you die and can run back. The reasonable difficulty is dropped to no difficulty. Most importantly, the entire down mechanic doesn’t mean crap. Why save a downed player, when they can just run back? Where’s my impetus to help my fellow player get back up? How is any PvE supposed to be difficult?

If there’s a wipe, you unlock the waypoint and people walk back to the boss.

Punishment is a harsh word. A learning experience, perhaps? Something so that people sit down and think about the boss and how best to approach it.

I find it takes a lot of the epicness out of an encounter if you just run back continuously, until the boss is dead.

I come from a WoW background. One of the best part of those boss encounter was the near wipe. Boss down to 2% and only a few people up. Everyone else cheering them on. Those moments aren’t possible when the rest of the people are running back to hit the boss a few times, die, repeat.

Multiple times I’ve seen people (including myself) die from a boss, run back, die from the same thing. There’s no incentive to learn the amazing content ANET provides, if you can run back from every death. Hell, you even have time to repair.

With proper planning, there’s no boss in the game that couldn’t be downed by a party continuously running back. Running back is not a boss mechanic.

I would like to see an inability to waypoint, if you are engaged with a boss. Too many times the strategy to down a boss is “Run back if you are downed!” I’d like to see people learn the encounters, and not run at them from the waypoint, until the boss is downed.
It doesn’t feel like I’ve accomplished anything important, when I die and run back 5 times.