(edited by yonnystarr.2684)
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I think that replacing/removing the orb carrier’s abilities is going way too far. Less emphasis on abilities means more emphasis on stats. That decision would make beefy, soldier amulet wearing warriors who are traited in defense and tactics to be the best choice as the orb runner. Furthermore, a loss of abilities in addition to the slow buff would also mean that your team is down one man for however long it takes to run the orb (or fail) – meaning that getting the orb to the destination would be much, much too risky and difficult to coordinate to be worth the effort of 15-30 points. This would probably result in teams ignoring the concept of actually running the orb, and rather focus on holding points and capitalizing on the team unbalance when their opponents remove one of their members to try to run it.
If you fight a decent and coordinated team, they’re probably going to end up capping the orb if they get it, regardless of what class is running the orb. The key to stopping any orb runner is to not let them pick up the orb in the first place. The battle for the orb (usually) ends once it’s been picked up.
I think that replacing/removing the orb carrier’s abilities is going way too far. Less emphasis on abilities means more emphasis on stats. That decision would make beefy, soldier amulet wearing warriors who are traited in defense and tactics to be the best choice as the orb runner. Furthermore, a loss of abilities in addition to the slow buff would also mean that your team is down one man for however long it takes to run the orb (or fail) – meaning that getting the orb to the destination would be much, much too risky and difficult to coordinate to be worth the effort of 15-30 points. This would probably result in teams ignoring the concept of actually running the orb, and rather focus on holding points and capitalizing on the team unbalance when their opponents remove one of their members to try to run it.
If you fight a decent and coordinated team, they’re probably going to end up capping the orb if they get it, regardless of what class is running the orb. The key to stopping any orb runner is to not let them pick up the orb in the first place. The battle for the orb (usually) ends once it’s been picked up.
I personally don’t think Ride the Lightning is a huge issue, but I can see why people would be complaining. Rather than remove the abilities of orb runners, just make RTL affected by cripple/chill/fear/ and lower the cooldown.
Thank you, everyone at Anet, for all of your hard work. I mostly do tournament with my friends/guildies and I am loving Spirit Watch! Definitely my favorite map.
I completely agree with the Powerbottom and others in this thread.
As a tournament player who runs premades, here are my thoughts.
The features of each map should be the “primary” objective in most conquest games. Capping points should be a secondary objective for a passive boost which, over the course of the game could be a decisive factor to the outcome of the match. This would create variety for spectators, and a lot more tension while viewing than regular “capture the points” conquest.
Spirit Watch – Fine.
Battle of Kyhlo – Make this the closest to pure conquest of the maps. The primary objective should be to hold the areas, just like it is now. Destroying and repairing trebuchets provide no points. The trebuchet is already a key feature of that map which needs to be operating (and thus destroyed/repaired) to win. 1 point awarded every 1.75 seconds per capped node. 5 points per kill.
Forest of Niflhel – The primary objective should be to kill more mobs than your opponent. Mobs award 50 points per kill. Mobs are overall much stronger and more dangerous(not soloable, takes some time/coordination even with 3 people to take down). Mobs award points based on percentage of damage dealt to it by each team (rather than killing blow). 1 point awarded every 2.5 seconds. 5 points per kill.
Legacy of the Foefire – The primary objective should be to kill the opponent’s Lord before they kill yours. Increase Lord HP. Make the gate repairable. Lord gives 250 points on kill. 1 point awarded every 2.5 seconds per capped point. 5 points per kill.
Temple of Silent Storm – Consistently obtaining buffs should be the main focus. Regular kills on this map only award 3 points; 1 point is awarded every 2.5 seconds per capped point. All the buffs give the same (one) effect on this map. A buff will appear randomly every minute at one of the possible spawn areas. The buff increases points gained per kill to 10 until the next buff appears. This makes the main source of obtaining points in this match will be from killing the opponent.
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you think? of course that is one of the problems, the other is people joining and seeing they are on a full pug and facing a full premade and quitting, or seeing they are on a 5v4 and quitting, making it 5v3. And since you don’t punish them what do they lose? the invisible rating they don’t care about? They log-off for 10 mins avoid a spawn camp stomping then log back in.
Learn from Rift, if you get DC’d their system gives you short amount of time to re-boot/log back in and puts you in the same warfront you were in. If you don’t log back in quickly it fills the spot with a new player and when that person eventually does log back in they have a 30-min deserter debuff and can’t queue for pvp. I’m guessing just another thing your system isn’t built to do.
If someone is constantly DC’ing due to crappy ISP or quitting without leaving their roster they should be punished and stick to hotjoin rather than making 4 people suffer a curb stomping 5v4 matchup.
The sad thing is this has been an issue basically since release and doesn’t sound like you have any fixes in the works. Like i said in another thread this is something Rift did a hotfix for shortly after release. And I only use Rift as an example because it was one of the more recently released mmos. pretty much every other mmo pvp also has quitter debuffs/penalties.
The two problems deserve different solutions. If a player is in queue for a bit, but needs to log off to do something else, that player shouldn’t be punished because they didn’t leave the roster first. This is a completely fixable problem. Punishing people who knowingly dodge is a much more difficult problem.
why is it so difficult yet every other game has a deserter penalty? If you log off once you have been put into a match you have 1-2 min to log back in, if not game fills spot with another solo queuer and the person that didn’t log back in quick enough gets a 30-minute quitter debuff and can’t join any pvp until it’s up. Rift does this, WoW does this, Warhammer did it, etc.
I don’t even bother playing this game anymore because as a solo queuer more of my matches are 5v4 than 5v5.
This is a very real problem, but we can only work on so many things at once. I would still place it at a lower priority than Custom Arenas.
Preventing uneven teams should definitely be a higher priority than Custom Arenas; I’m not sure how this can be viewed otherwise in a PvP environment which includes a ranking system.
People already have the opportunity to duel in low-pop spvp servers. At this point, many people have come to understand that servers with only 2-6 people in them are dueling servers. When I’m on a dueling server I rarely get interrupted by people who want to play conquest, and if we are we just say it’s a dueling server and people join in on the dueling or leave. Custom Arenas are appreciated, but can wait.
On the other hand, I don’t see how you can have “ranking system” and still allow 3v5 and 4v5 in tournament play. I’m sure the developers realize that having uneven teams will end up skewing the accuracy of each individual’s rank. Seeing as how frequently this happens in Tpvp, the fact that the developers don’t see fixing uneven teams it as a high priority issue makes me think that the developers don’t view the accuracy of their ranking system to be that important, leading me to think that the current “invisible” ranking system is still just fluff.
To be honest, you guys shouldn’t have even implemented the “ranking system” until the problem of uneven teams was solved. Uneven teams just completely cancels out the accuracy of your ranking system.
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mbh,
Although I have never played GW1, something like that Zaishen Chest is another example of what Glory could be used for in GW2. As of now, PvP is too disjointed from the other forms of game-play (WvW and PvE). I think the entire concept of “What happens in PvP stays in PvP” is really deterring the potential player-base who could be interested in PvPing from giving it a decent try. I would like to hear a developers reasoning as to why they are keeping the time spent in PvP completely unable to interact or cross-over with other forms of gameplay.
dreztine,
In regards to aesthetics, I completely agree and believe this is another reason why gear should not be the only reward obtainable by glory. Aesthetics are arbitrarily ranked, and furthermore, how certain gear looks (what looks cool and what looks stupid) is entirely subjective to the individual. Meaning I may not find the ‘perfect’ set I want until rank 70; but it also means that if I, at rank 33, have customized my character to be ‘exactly’ how I want him to be, and can’t find any higher tier gear that looks ‘better’, then I’m done with the gear collecting aspect of PvP. So what am I to do with all the surplus glory I have then?
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Thank you for your response firebreathz. The WvW and PvE glory transfer examples were just quick ideas of different ways glory could be used.
I think the biggest problem is that glory can only be used for one thing – to purchase chests which contain PvP items. I’ve gotten to the point where I open a chest and think “Already got that piece of gear, got three of that one, two of that one, got that one too… Oh, a new shoulder piece I don’t have yet… Meh, might use it.” If glory had more application, then I think it could attract a wider player-base to start trying out PvP.
For example, with proper cost balancing, perhaps glory could be used for:
1.) PvP Treasure Chests (for those who want to collect cool looking pvp gear)
2.) Influence/Merits (to contribute to your guild)
3.) Items that provide temporary upgrades or buffs (to use when you WvW)
The rewards in PvP are lacking. I’m currently rank 33 and at this point those treasure chests I get from winning tournaments mean nothing to me. I have about 50k glory saved up because there is nothing to use it on. Collecting new and cool looking tiers of gear is fine and good, but it’s just not enough. I’m currently playing the game because I enjoy TPvP and because the new map is very fun; the current rewards do not play a part in my motivation to continue PvPing.
Please add something else to give PvP and honor some kind of relevance. I’d even trade in my glory to help my server in WvW or guild in PvE or something like that. Just please, give us something else to use glory on.
Like several others in this thread, I don’t really see what the problem is. If you actually want to play a goal-focused PvP match (such as capture/hold the point) where people are playing to win, then you should be playing Tournament. I would say free tournaments are what you’d want to be playing. Unlike SPvP people play to win in free tournaments, and unlike paid tournaments they aren’t all good (or better) players.
There is nothing in SPvP to be ruined, since it already is ruined in regards to being ‘competitive’. You can have 8 players per team, players may join and leave freely at any point in the match, and one team is usually always outnumbered by one player. These three points already influence who “wins” in a SPvP match to the point where it can’t be called competitive.
In my opinion, SPvP is for people who 1.) Just want to relax and kill some time, 2.) Practice new professions/builds, 3.)Dueling/testing with teammates/guildies, 4.)Farm honor, or 5.) Aren’t good/confident enough for TPvP yet.
Again, if you’re playing SPvP and are upset your teammates don’t always cooperate and try to ‘win’, do yourself a huge favor and do some free tournaments.