Guild Wars 2

Absolutely just because it is popular it should be nerfed.
You have an 8 class game. You want reasonable balance in the numbers of each class or want to make adjustments. It doesn’t/can’t be perfect but if you get one class that represents far too much of a population, you better nerf it.

Look, on Star Wars, the great fear in design was that Jedis would be the “gotta play this” class. If that had been the case, they would have become one of the lowest powered classes to encourage or incentivize class numeric balance.

Absolutely, you want to nerf classes that become too much of the population for any reason.

Often, this is a playstyle issue. Warriors and Guardians are popular because melee is more effective than range. Improving range, AE and CC to lock them down (all things melee classes in every game hate) generally changes the balance better than almost anything else you can do.

There is a difference between a soft nerf and a hard baseball bat bludgeon to the head. But yes, if something is too popular, the heck with the numeric evidence to the contrary, nerf it.

Bombsaway.7198:

But yes, if something is too popular, the heck with the numeric evidence to the contrary, nerf it.

This is true, when ArenaNet first came with the 8 classes they wanted to get rid of the holy trinity DPS, Healing and Tank.

Rather than get several classes fulfill each role they somehow created one superior class above all other classes.

The Warrior currently is so superior in the majority of aspects in the game that it overshadows other classes, which is even worse than having a trinity in the game. Rather than have a mix of professions be good at what they do they have one class to rule them all.

Popularity also indicates effectiveness, if a class is not effective at something less people are interested in playing it. The more effective the more popular hence often the term ‘’Flavor of the month’’ which means that during a certain time period a specific class/build is played because its so effective.

Im very curious to see what ArenaNet is going to do about this issue, if you want my opinion I have very little hope for other classes and I dont think ArenaNet is going to realize it anytime soon.

You want to nerf it early. If you wait until after say 25% (which is a HUGE number in an 8 class game) migrate to the class, you start to have a very hard time with people who enjoy their new OP class.

The sooner the nerf happens the better for everyone. And just as you couldn’t incrementally boost the class (it was too underpowered), you need an “all at once” approach to getting it to the mean. Hit hard.

i agree with the OP..
Warriors were kinda out of the pvp for some time, not cause they were weak..Just that there were insanly buffed classes..They fix it tho

Now they are OP in every aspect of the game so the devs can play their favourite class and have fun…

Thedenofsin.7340:

Distaste.4801:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Leuca.5732:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

as in, some profession will have an easier time against certain professions, and a harder time against certain professions.

But you think warriors should be good against all professions, and be the easiest to play.

errr no.
i think warriors are good against those who deal puny damage.

You are very, very wrong. Every single good player left (all 5 of them) playing this game will tell you that.

Warrior is completely broken in this game. The March balance patch is their last shot to show the community they know what they are doing. After that, it’s 4.4.14 and this place will be a complete ghost town.

If you think ESO is going to be any better you’re sorely mistaken. As much as I want a new game to play since ArenaNet seems oblivious to game balance at best, ESO is not going to be that game. Considering it will also have a subscription and cash shop subscriber attrition will hit that game like a ton of bricks, think SWTOR.

TESO will have a massive pull on the PVE community. massive

When that cash cow is gone, there won’t be anyone left.

^The real question is whether something shiny, interesting and unbalanced is better than something old, polished and unbalanced? Btw, it’s PvE AND WvW that will be different but really it is the niche combat hybrid between console games and PC games that ESO will live and flourish or die.

=====

Why is this thread labeled [All] when it should read [anti-Warrior] ? Is this really adding anything or are we just kicking a dead horse like the over 9,000 other threads on anti-Warrior in this forum and other Profession forums?

TheGuy.3568:

Just because it is popular doesn’t mean it should be nerfed. There are a good number of reasons to nerf some select warrior traits and skills, but being a heavily played class has nothing to do with it.

I’m not discussing the popularity of the class. I’m discussing the fact it is the most dominant class in nearly every area of the game.

Warrior is a versatile class. Can do a lot of things.
It is good in big group, but not better than guardian, necro or ele.
The warrior is good for solo roaming as well. But thief is even better.
Warrior is far from being overpowered, it is just versatile.

Thedenofsin.7340:

TheGuy.3568:

Just because it is popular doesn’t mean it should be nerfed. There are a good number of reasons to nerf some select warrior traits and skills, but being a heavily played class has nothing to do with it.

I’m not discussing the popularity of the class. I’m discussing the fact it is the most dominant class in nearly every area of the game.

it is the most dominant profession in almost all parts of the game because:

1. easy to play (PvE, WvW, sPvP)
2. many rooms for errors (PvE, WvW?, sPvP against equally or lesser skilled players)
3. warriors is a classic and popular profession

while it is dominant (as in popular) it does not mean it is overpowered.

like keoma has said, warriors are versatile and can do a lot of things, but other professions can do them better.

some small shaving adjustments may be necessary but a complete neuter is completely uncalled for.

and do remember a great number of people play guild wars 2 due to the no subscription concept. and i believe there are also a great number of casual players who are not bothered by the constant influx of gem shop vanity items.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Thedenofsin.7340:

TheGuy.3568:

Just because it is popular doesn’t mean it should be nerfed. There are a good number of reasons to nerf some select warrior traits and skills, but being a heavily played class has nothing to do with it.

I’m not discussing the popularity of the class. I’m discussing the fact it is the most dominant class in nearly every area of the game.

it is the most dominant profession in almost all parts of the game because:

1. easy to play (PvE, WvW, sPvP)
2. many rooms for errors (PvE, WvW?, sPvP against equally or lesser skilled players)
3. warriors is a classic and popular profession

while it is dominant (as in popular) it does not mean it is overpowered.

Actually, that is exactly what dominant means. Go look up the definition of dominant in the dictionary before you post further, please.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Thedenofsin.7340:

TheGuy.3568:

Just because it is popular doesn’t mean it should be nerfed. There are a good number of reasons to nerf some select warrior traits and skills, but being a heavily played class has nothing to do with it.

I’m not discussing the popularity of the class. I’m discussing the fact it is the most dominant class in nearly every area of the game.

it is the most dominant profession in almost all parts of the game because:

1. easy to play (PvE, WvW, sPvP)
2. many rooms for errors (PvE, WvW?, sPvP against equally or lesser skilled players)
3. warriors is a classic and popular profession

while it is dominant (as in popular) it does not mean it is overpowered.

Actually, that is exactly what dominant means. Go look up the definition of dominant in the dictionary before you post further, please.

no.

dom·i·nant
?däm?n?nt/Submit
adjective
1.
most important, powerful, or influential.
“they are now in an even more dominant position in the market”
synonyms: presiding, ruling, governing, controlling, commanding, ascendant, supreme, authoritative More

and “most” important / powerful / influential does not necessarily mean “over” powered.

and by the way, your original post is wrong, let me correct it for you.

GW2 Activity / Dominant Popular Profession
Dungeons: Warrior
Fractals: Warrior
Open World Events: Warrior
Open World Bosses: Warrior
WvW Zergs: Warrior
Hot Join PvP: Warrior
Solo PvP: Warrior
Team PvP: Warrior
GvG: Warrior
WvW roaming: Thief/Mesmer

the above list can only show that warriors are the popular choice, but, dominant? this list does not show how dominant warriors are, just popular.

just because warriors are popular does not necessarily mean they are dominant.

Please. Now you want to redefine my post to suit your needs? I know what dominant means. What I stated was factual.

Enough. Deimos, stop trolling this thread.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Please. Now you want to redefine my post to suit your needs? I know what dominant means. What I stated was factual.

Enough. Deimos, stop trolling this thread.

no, not to suit my needs, because you are attempting to spread wrong information. this is uncalled for.

what you stated is factual, but you merely stated that warriors are popular, you did not and can not prove that warriors are dominant.

warriors are popular, but they are not dominant.

enough, Thedenofsin, stop spreading incorrect information about warriors.

I am guessing Deimos is Burnfall/Sanduskell of warrior forums?

you know how cinemas for example have normal tickets and then cheaper version of tickets for students, handicapped ppl etc? getting profit even from areas where you wouldn’t make money with standard price… warriors are like those special cathegory tickets, they are made so even casuals, ppl who play with 500 ms, not so skilled players, ppl who don’t pay attention etc. can accomplish something in this game

what is the point of saying it? if you assume that what i stated before is true, then i doubt they will ever bring warriors to the level of other classes

Thedenofsin.7340:

Taking a quick look at this game, I couldn’t help but notice a pattern:

GW2 Activity / Dominant Profession

Dungeons: Warrior
Fractals: Warrior
Open World Events: Warrior
Open World Bosses: Warrior
WvW Zergs: Warrior
Hot Join PvP: Warrior
Solo PvP: Warrior
Team PvP: Warrior
GvG: Warrior
WvW roaming: Thief/Mesmer

At the 1,000 foot-level, this doesn’t look like something that’s balanced: quite the opposite.

Does the balance team ever look up and examine profession balance across the board?

During the “Ready Up” stream, the developers were very concerned about over-nerfing Healing Signet for warriors such that it may not make them viable in the meta (i.e. team PvP).

Why is this such a massive concern? It’s not as though warriors are in so bad a place that no one will ever play warrior in Guild War(ior)s 2 again if you do nerf them out of the meta. They’d still be the most powerful profession for the vast majority of the game.

Now, take a look at, say, engineers. I can’t remember the last time I saw an engineer in anything but PvP and roaming WvW. Nerfing engineers very well could result in the profession not being played – anywhere.

Here’s where I am scratching my head: you’ve buffed a class to the point where it is, literally, the most dominant class in nearly every aspect of the entire game, and you guys are deeply worried about over-nerfing it in just one area of the game.

You guys are the balance team, and I’m sure that role has to necessarily include all aspects of gameplay in Guild Wars 2. So I’m asking: is this balanced?

Numbers to back up your post or are you just joining the warrior hate band wagon?

I’m gonna guess that you don’t have the numbers to back your claim up though because they don’t exist.

P.S. Something must be wrong with my eyes because for the most part I see most professions represented somewhat equally when I run dungeons or do other things in pve. Even rangers.

ANet have only ever shown any interest in balancing for sPvP even though massive glaring imbalances have existed across the rest of the game since launch. Unless they act in any way to contradict that I can only assume they do not care about the state of class balance outside sPvP. Get used to it.

I challenge you on the stand that warriors are a better profession in open world events, bosses and zerging. Have you not tried guardians staff 1 for all this event. If u are trying to say that there are too many warriors, this post is ridiculous as warriors in most mmos are the most popular class not only gw2.

Dynnen.6405:

Never cater to casuals. Heres a video on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7VAhzPcZ-s

Oh god that’s pretty much prefect of what the gamer community is like… He didn’t cover the toxicity in there though… that also seems to be leaking (4chan…? CoD? WoW?)…

woeye.2753:

…
Fortunately, though, there are still some players who refuse to join the global warriorfication

:D I’ve been promoting warriorfication (and guardification) since two patches ago!

WhiteRose.6934:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Warriors have bad DPS and poor defensive options…

Right…

I think he forgot “(sarcasm)”… I think he was sarcastic in his post… I hope…

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

…
just because warriors are popular does not necessarily mean they are dominant.

Why are they so popular?

o.O I’m in no way suggesting a nerf (nor would I know what to nerf) to warriors (I re-rolled a warrior too, why would I want it nerfed?). A buff to all other class would be more welcomed, to open up new roles/uses in some cases…

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Please. Now you want to redefine my post to suit your needs? I know what dominant means. What I stated was factual.

Enough. Deimos, stop trolling this thread.

no, not to suit my needs, because you are attempting to spread wrong information. this is uncalled for.

what you stated is factual, but you merely stated that warriors are popular, you did not and can not prove that warriors are dominant.

warriors are popular, but they are not dominant.

enough, Thedenofsin, stop spreading incorrect information about warriors.

tPVP/sPvP/solo – the side with the most warriors will win the vast majority of the time. proof.

wvw zergs – the side with the most warriors will win the vast majority of the time. Double warrior is still the meta and is only defeated by teams that are vastly better coordinated. proof

dungeons/fractals – take a look at LFG. 4warrior+mesmer (TW bot) for the fastest clears. proof.

open world events – Warriors will get the most karma and the fastest kills. Look at any tutorial video on how to grind karma the fastest and it will state that warrior is the best. proof.

There’s your proof. If you want more, then go find it yourself.

Deimos, I am shocked at how blind you are to your own bias. Are you some kind of shill for the developers?

If warriors are truly balanced, then you would not see these kinds of threads, and so many of them. The only people who try to defend warriors are the people that actually play them.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

what you stated is factual, but you merely stated that warriors are popular,<snip>

I stated warriors are dominant, not popular. Stop trolling this thread.

So because some random nobody says the best way to get karma is with a warrior that means it’s absolutely 100% true?

And the rest, that’s hardly fact or even proof.

Thedenofsin,
what you stated are your personal opinions and observation from your perspective, not as a whole. just personal findings and not hard proof.

tPVP/sPvP/solo
nope. the team with better skilled players and better team coordination will win the match. the team with more warriors does not necessarily mean that team will win, unless those warriors players happen to be better skilled than the other team.

as you do not have access to all the sPvP match logs, what you have said is your personal opinion and observation, not solid evidence.

wvw zergs
the zerg with more warriors will only win if they have better coordination than the other zerg.

again, this is but from your own observation since you could not possible witness every WvW zerg battle out there by yourself.

dungeons/fractals
the LFG tool is empty for me everytime when i look at it, i did not see any so called 4 warriors + 1 mesmer LFG advertisement as you so claimed.

in fact, all the dungeon groups in my guild are quite well mixed and not 4 warriors + 1 mesmer so no, what you have presented is not proof.

open world events
no. that is not proof. sorry.

warriors are finally balanced properly, as for the reason there are a lot of topics regarding warriors, is because warriors were not quite balanced at launch, and over many months, the non warrior players have gotten very used to seeing warriors as free easy kills.

once the much deserved warrior fix came in and warriors are finally balanced, the non warriors players are unable to adapt to this and so they choose to whine and complain instead of trying to accept the fact that warriors are balanced and not free easy kills anymore.

finally, you stated warriors are dominant, but this is merely your own opinion based from your personal observation, nothing more. you can not and will not be able to produce any hard evidence regarding that warriors are dominant because you do not have access to all the logs in the game.

warriors are popular, this is fact, and this is balanced and working as intended, because warriors are made to be easy to play. remember that many people likes to play in easy mode. however, when people who attempt to play hard mode but then became envious of the people playing easy mode, then they go and rage in the forums.

Warrior is balanced around players like Anet’s QA who, as seen in twitch streams, click their skills.

GG WP.

Deimos, you have done nothing to prove warriors are not overpowered. Your statements are 100% opinion, not based upon any evidence whatsoever. In fact, the only counter-argument you can try to come up with is simply denial.

Provide proof warriors are balanced properly. What you state is pure conjecture, not supported by any facts.

If they are so balanced, why have they been nerfed twice in a row?

This is my last response, because, quite frankly it is clear you are incomprehensibly biased. Evangelistic zealots cannot be convinced they are wrong, no matter how much truth you place in front of them.

Go prosthelytize somewhere else.

Make warrior problem solved. Or delete all classes and let only warrior play the game.
Guild Warriors 2.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Deimos, you have done nothing to prove warriors are not overpowered. Your statements are 100% opinion, not based upon any evidence whatsoever. In fact, the only counter-argument you can try to come up with is simply denial.

Provide proof warriors are balanced properly. What you state is pure conjecture, not supported by any facts.

If they are so balanced, why have they been nerfed twice in a row?

This is my last response, because, quite frankly it is clear you are incomprehensibly biased. Evangelistic zealots cannot be convinced they are wrong, no matter how much truth you place in front of them.

Go prosthelytize somewhere else.

Thank god, because the sheer amount of irony you have shown through all the posts you have made in this thread without offering any conclusive proof….well, let’s just say you are on the other extremist end.

Threads like these should really be locked, as they offer nothing but subjective criticism that can’t accurately be measured nor reasoned with.

Dynnen.6405:

Never cater to casuals. Heres a video on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7VAhzPcZ-s

This is the audio/video to my very mind, thank you for sharing this with us!

Thedenofsin.7340:

Deimos, you have done nothing to prove warriors are not overpowered. Your statements are 100% opinion, not based upon any evidence whatsoever. In fact, the only counter-argument you can try to come up with is simply denial.

Provide proof warriors are balanced properly. What you state is pure conjecture, not supported by any facts.

If they are so balanced, why have they been nerfed twice in a row?

This is my last response, because, quite frankly it is clear you are incomprehensibly biased. Evangelistic zealots cannot be convinced they are wrong, no matter how much truth you place in front of them.

Go prosthelytize somewhere else.

Not unlike you? What proof have you offered to back your claims because I haven’t seen any.

Could it be that you haven’t shown any proof to back up your claim because the proof doesn’t exist?

Irony is fun.

TheGuy.3568:

Just because it is popular doesn’t mean it should be nerfed. There are a good number of reasons to nerf some select warrior traits and skills, but being a heavily played class has nothing to do with it.

No, being OP is why they need a nerf. Healing signet is one example, and no, the 8% nerf they are supposedly getting is nothing.

Let’s take a survey. If you think, the warrior is OP, bump this thread:
- thread was closed -

If you think the warrior is balanced, bump this thread.
- thread was closed -

Since balance is not only about number but also a subjective assessment, it would be nice to know what the majority thinks.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Let’s take a survey. If you think, the warrior is OP, bump this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Is-the-warrior-OP-Yes/

If you think the warrior is balanced, bump this thread.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Is-the-warrior-OP-No/

Since balance is not only about number but also a subjective assessment, it would be nice to know what the majority thinks.

The forums are the ‘minority’ actually.

There are also intricate problems with balancing based on a majority decision.

Sykper.6583:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Let’s take a survey. If you think, the warrior is OP, bump this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Is-the-warrior-OP-Yes/

If you think the warrior is balanced, bump this thread.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Is-the-warrior-OP-No/

Since balance is not only about number but also a subjective assessment, it would be nice to know what the majority thinks.

The forums are the ‘minority’ actually.

There are also intricate problems with balancing based on a majority decision.

However it would be nice to know what the people are thinking. There has been so many discussions about the for and against, but yet there has been no conclusion.
Since the people wont be open to persuasion, it would be nice to know what the most people think about this subject.
And if you think that the minorty will even see this survey, you could help making this survey known.

During that time, ranger is left in the dust on almost all aspect of the game, except spvp.

Warrior DPS has already been established to be really low compared to most other classes. They’re roughly tied with engineers, necromancers, and rangers. Last I checked their exact place in the DPS rankings was #6, barely above engineers and rangers and slightly below necromancers. They’re good in dungeons primarily because of banners, but being a bannerbot is lame for the same reason bringing a ranger as a spiritbot is.

In terms of defense, they lack any sort of sustainable vigor uptime, have no CCs, don’t have room on their bar for any defensive cooldowns, and their heals suck. Speccing to have any of these things is a massive DPS loss and drops warriors clean into bottom tier DPS.

A class that has to go full offense to achieve DPS equivalent to a full tank spec guardian needs a buff, not a nerd.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Warrior DPS has already been established to be really low compared to most other classes. They’re roughly tied with engineers, necromancers, and rangers. Last I checked their exact place in the DPS rankings was #6, barely above engineers and rangers and slightly below necromancers. They’re good in dungeons primarily because of banners, but being a bannerbot is lame for the same reason bringing a ranger as a spiritbot is.

In terms of defense, they lack any sort of sustainable vigor uptime, have no CCs, don’t have room on their bar for any defensive cooldowns, and their heals suck. Speccing to have any of these things is a massive DPS loss and drops warriors clean into bottom tier DPS.

A class that has to go full offense to achieve DPS equivalent to a full tank spec guardian needs a buff, not a nerd.

They’re 4, roughly just below guardians, I’m pretty sure.
Elementalists win with an extremely organized team in an ideal situation using a might stacking LH build that has minimum damage resistance for the entire game, mesmer assumes three max DPS phantasms that never get destroyed, and the guardian spec that has higher DPS than the warrior one is reputedly much more difficult to play.

Also, “full offense to achieve DPS equivalent to a full tank spec guardian”?
You pulled that straight out of your kitten … oh, wait.

I feel embarrassed now. I didn’t realize you were being sarcastic/trollish.
After I wrote that whole thing out too, jeez
It’s 3:15 AM, I have an excuse!

fellyn.5083:

So because some random nobody says the best way to get karma is with a warrior that means it’s absolutely 100% true?

And the rest, that’s hardly fact or even proof.

And just because some random nobody is doubting that makes it untrue ?

Seriously please stop talking about proof, that´s just stupid as kitten. Nobody here on the forum´s can proof anything because nobody here has any access to statistics or other official number material or game metrics. The only people that really can proof anything are arenanet employees and they will not talk at all about stuff like that because that would show the massive fail their balance / design team landed.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

warriors are finally balanced properly, as for the reason there are a lot of topics regarding warriors, is because warriors were not quite balanced at launch, and over many months, the non warrior players have gotten very used to seeing warriors as free easy kills.
…

in other words “warriors arent OP, every other class is UP”. Fact is, that every warrior build is above average. The only things they dont have are clones/pets and invisibility. And i think when new skills get introduced, atleast one of this two gets “fixed”.

Warriors a year ago had a big weakspot, condition damage, but to compensate this, they had high hp, high armor, health regen and invulnerability to direct damage. Yes they could be kited, but this was due to their bugged gap closers (bulls charge, ….).

After “fixing” their weakspot, they got one of the best condition removals/imunities in the game. But on the other hand they didnt give up one of their other stregths, that should compensate this weakness. Health regen got buffed, damage stayed more or less the same (some number tweaking), every other stat stayed the same.

Its like the hole in the death-star, the put a giant Laser cannon on top of this little hole, so that everyone that wants to shoot in it, get killed.

Thedenofsin.7340:

TheGuy.3568:

Just because it is popular doesn’t mean it should be nerfed. There are a good number of reasons to nerf some select warrior traits and skills, but being a heavily played class has nothing to do with it.

I’m not discussing the popularity of the class. I’m discussing the fact it is the most dominant class in nearly every area of the game.

Look players will play what they play. I got an 80 warrior and every other class save necro. The build I find easiest in PvE is any. It really is so simple you can play any class. If I am going to be completely honest after a year + of play thief S/P is my go to and then guardian behind that. Warrior is great fro new players in PVT who do not dodge and want a simple class. It is literally middle of the road in everything save Spvp.

Lets be honest here. PvE is too simple to nerf classes around. WvW is a zerg fest which is more about tagging then anything else. Most players have leveled multiple 80s.

I never get these post where nerfs should be handed out arbitrarily based on the assumed playing habits of the pop. Balancing the game against PvP is fine. Usefulness is fine. Balancing the game vs what class people are playing is just stupid. I am sorry but it really is stupid.

Balance is good, learn to play, dude. And stop cry.

WhiteRose.6934:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Taking a quick look at this game, I couldn’t help but notice a pattern:

GW2 Activity / Dominant Profession

Dungeons: Warrior
Fractals: Warrior
Open World Events: Warrior
Open World Bosses: Warrior
WvW Zergs: Warrior
Hot Join PvP: Warrior
Solo PvP: Warrior
Team PvP: Warrior
GvG: Warrior
WvW roaming: Warrior

I fixed it for you.

Dat GS + Hammer warrior build.

Artaz.3819:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Distaste.4801:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Leuca.5732:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

as in, some profession will have an easier time against certain professions, and a harder time against certain professions.

But you think warriors should be good against all professions, and be the easiest to play.

errr no.
i think warriors are good against those who deal puny damage.

You are very, very wrong. Every single good player left (all 5 of them) playing this game will tell you that.

Warrior is completely broken in this game. The March balance patch is their last shot to show the community they know what they are doing. After that, it’s 4.4.14 and this place will be a complete ghost town.

If you think ESO is going to be any better you’re sorely mistaken. As much as I want a new game to play since ArenaNet seems oblivious to game balance at best, ESO is not going to be that game. Considering it will also have a subscription and cash shop subscriber attrition will hit that game like a ton of bricks, think SWTOR.

TESO will have a massive pull on the PVE community. massive

When that cash cow is gone, there won’t be anyone left.

^The real question is whether something shiny, interesting and unbalanced is better than something old, polished and unbalanced? Btw, it’s PvE AND WvW that will be different but really it is the niche combat hybrid between console games and PC games that ESO will live and flourish or die.

Choose between:
A losing lottery ticket whose draw already occurred last friday.
Buying a lottery ticket whose draw occurs next friday.

My chances of winning the lottery with a ticket that has already lost when they drew the prizes last friday is 0.
My chances of winning the lottery with a ticket that i just bought when they are going to draw the prizes next friday is 0.000000001%.

Most people will throw away the old lottery ticket. Many will buy the new lottery ticket because it might be fun gambling even with chances close to 0. If you want to keep your old lottery ticket in souvenir that you did not win, good for you.

Finding the right MMO is like playing the lottery.
You take a look at a preview to see if you will buy it, just like you take a look at how many millions you can win before buying a lottery ticket.
You then buy the game and find out if it’s the right game to play, the right place to be. If it is, you won. If not, move to the next one.
You really have to buy the game to find out because the preview does not always speak for what the game truly is. cough manifesto cough
This is like finding you won 50 millions dollars but they will only give you 1 dollar per day.

This is specially true when you see awful decisions being made for this game such as Ascended Gear and daily grind, overbuffed Warrior that just surpass everything else, Tequatl-style bosses that you have to line up for one hour beforehand, etc. This is definitely not the game that was advertised to me and that i bought in april 2012.

ESO might go the same way, but there is a chance they might do it right, even if small,
whereas the chances of making GW2 into what was advertised when i bought it back then are really 0.

Moreover, they already gave us what to expect in march. A nerf to vigor for every class, while Warrior’s vigor remains untouched. Balanced?

draugris.9872:

fellyn.5083:

So because some random nobody says the best way to get karma is with a warrior that means it’s absolutely 100% true?

And the rest, that’s hardly fact or even proof.

And just because some random nobody is doubting that makes it untrue ?

Seriously please stop talking about proof, that´s just stupid as kitten. Nobody here on the forum´s can proof anything because nobody here has any access to statistics or other official number material or game metrics. The only people that really can proof anything are arenanet employees and they will not talk at all about stuff like that because that would show the massive fail their balance / design team landed.

I’m not the one making these claims…so yeah…there is that. I’m also not the one who is claiming my opinion is fact.

Fellyn:

How do you propose having “facts”?
If I see a sunset 100 times, can’t I claim it is beautiful without a model on how to define the beauty of a sunset?

The data that would be required for moving to a numeric model is almost impossible to obtain for GW2 and gets so situational.

But, just like I can say a sunset is beautiful based on my common experience and perception, I can say a warrior is over powered based on my common experience.

In a game, the only thing that matters is the player’s perception of fairness. In fact, the numeric models hardly even matter if the vast majority of players THINK warriors are over powered, they simply are. This is a game not reality. Perception is defining not spreadsheets.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Please. Now you want to redefine my post to suit your needs? I know what dominant means. What I stated was factual.

Enough. Deimos, stop trolling this thread.

no, not to suit my needs, because you are attempting to spread wrong information. this is uncalled for.

what you stated is factual, but you merely stated that warriors are popular, you did not and can not prove that warriors are dominant.

warriors are popular, but they are not dominant.

enough, Thedenofsin, stop spreading incorrect information about warriors.

tPVP/sPvP/solo – the side with the most warriors will win the vast majority of the time. proof.

wvw zergs – the side with the most warriors will win the vast majority of the time. Double warrior is still the meta and is only defeated by teams that are vastly better coordinated. proof

dungeons/fractals – take a look at LFG. 4warrior+mesmer (TW bot) for the fastest clears. proof.

open world events – Warriors will get the most karma and the fastest kills. Look at any tutorial video on how to grind karma the fastest and it will state that warrior is the best. proof.

There’s your proof. If you want more, then go find it yourself.

Deimos, I am shocked at how blind you are to your own bias. Are you some kind of shill for the developers?

If warriors are truly balanced, then you would not see these kinds of threads, and so many of them. The only people who try to defend warriors are the people that actually play them.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

what you stated is factual, but you merely stated that warriors are popular,<snip>

I stated warriors are dominant, not popular. Stop trolling this thread.

Warriors are so OP that they can’t even be moderated on the forums. Deimos is trolling and mods never stop him.

Xae.7204:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Please. Now you want to redefine my post to suit your needs? I know what dominant means. What I stated was factual.

Enough. Deimos, stop trolling this thread.

no, not to suit my needs, because you are attempting to spread wrong information. this is uncalled for.

what you stated is factual, but you merely stated that warriors are popular, you did not and can not prove that warriors are dominant.

warriors are popular, but they are not dominant.

enough, Thedenofsin, stop spreading incorrect information about warriors.

tPVP/sPvP/solo – the side with the most warriors will win the vast majority of the time. proof.

wvw zergs – the side with the most warriors will win the vast majority of the time. Double warrior is still the meta and is only defeated by teams that are vastly better coordinated. proof

dungeons/fractals – take a look at LFG. 4warrior+mesmer (TW bot) for the fastest clears. proof.

open world events – Warriors will get the most karma and the fastest kills. Look at any tutorial video on how to grind karma the fastest and it will state that warrior is the best. proof.

There’s your proof. If you want more, then go find it yourself.

Deimos, I am shocked at how blind you are to your own bias. Are you some kind of shill for the developers?

If warriors are truly balanced, then you would not see these kinds of threads, and so many of them. The only people who try to defend warriors are the people that actually play them.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

what you stated is factual, but you merely stated that warriors are popular,<snip>

I stated warriors are dominant, not popular. Stop trolling this thread.

Warriors are so OP that they can’t even be moderated on the forums. Deimos is trolling and mods never stop him.

Deimos is not trolling, every single argument Den has posted was utterly and irrevocably subjective. Although both of these people might have varied definitions on what dominant versus popular actually are, the point is that not a single ‘point’ Den has stated shows anything about the power of the Warrior, only their frequency of play which is high. Which absolutely makes sense since Warriors are probably one of the most popular and played classes across all MMOs, and far easier to grasp in MMOs as well.

Bombsaway.7198:

Fellyn:

How do you propose having “facts”?
If I see a sunset 100 times, can’t I claim it is beautiful without a model on how to define the beauty of a sunset?

The data that would be required for moving to a numeric model is almost impossible to obtain for GW2 and gets so situational.

But, just like I can say a sunset is beautiful based on my common experience and perception, I can say a warrior is over powered based on my common experience.

In a game, the only thing that matters is the player’s perception of fairness. In fact, the numeric models hardly even matter if the vast majority of players THINK warriors are over powered, they simply are. This is a game not reality. Perception is defining not spreadsheets.

Subjective. To you the sunset is beautiful to the next person in line it’s blinding. Neither are fact.

Just because you think it’s true does not really make it true.

You can’t just say I see a lot of warriors in game so that means that they are over powered. Just because something is popular doesn’t mean anything.

Case in point, Justin Bieber. Millions upon millions of people around the world think he’s the most amazing musician ever, better than legends like Michael Jackson. Doesn’t make it true, does it?

Thedenofsin.7340:

WvW roaming: Thief

Good, very good, cos I’ve planned to play again for some time and was stuck in choise of class. Now, I know, thanks

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Please. Now you want to redefine my post to suit your needs? I know what dominant means. What I stated was factual.

Enough. Deimos, stop trolling this thread.

no, not to suit my needs, because you are attempting to spread wrong information. this is uncalled for.

what you stated is factual, but you merely stated that warriors are popular, you did not and can not prove that warriors are dominant.

warriors are popular, but they are not dominant.

enough, Thedenofsin, stop spreading incorrect information about warriors.

the act of dominating someone is the act of overpowering them and imposing your will upon them pretty much so yeah

Sykper.6583:

Deimos is not trolling, every single argument Den has posted was utterly and irrevocably subjective. Although both of these people might have varied definitions on what dominant versus popular actually are, the point is that not a single ‘point’ Den has stated shows anything about the power of the Warrior, only their frequency of play which is high. Which absolutely makes sense since Warriors are probably one of the most popular and played classes across all MMOs, and far easier to grasp in MMOs as well.

Subjective much?

People respond to incentives. This is basic ecnomics.

Right now people are incentivized to play Warrior because it is the strongest class in the game.

Ranger, Elementalist, Necromancer and Guardian (Paladin) are all standard Fantasy tropes. Even Mesmer (Illusionist) is not new, nor is Engineer.

Xae.7204:

Sykper.6583:

Deimos is not trolling, every single argument Den has posted was utterly and irrevocably subjective. Although both of these people might have varied definitions on what dominant versus popular actually are, the point is that not a single ‘point’ Den has stated shows anything about the power of the Warrior, only their frequency of play which is high. Which absolutely makes sense since Warriors are probably one of the most popular and played classes across all MMOs, and far easier to grasp in MMOs as well.

Subjective much?

People respond to incentives. This is basic ecnomics.

Right now people are incentivized to play Warrior because it is the strongest class in the game.

Ranger, Elementalist, Necromancer and Guardian (Paladin) are all standard Fantasy tropes. Even Mesmer (Illusionist) is not new, nor is Engineer.

To a degree, but there is also a factor of appeal and familiarity.

You don’t know what a ‘Guardian’ is until someone explains to you that it’s similar to a paladin. But the paladin trope might not appeal to everyone as much as a berserking warrior capable of creating havoc. Tastes play a huge part, and Warriors have always (using your logic in terms of what subjectivity indicates) been popular and easy to figure out. It’s literally the original ‘pick up a big weapon and smash things.’

Mesmers are probably the least familiar trope of the group, illusionists weren’t quite that popular in a combat setting until portrayed in television…wait I think I am going WAY off course.

Anyways, just because people might perceive warrior to be a strong profession is not enough proof on its own that it actually IS a strong profession, and I have played them all. I know exactly what warriors have, and what they lack compared to other professions and if you wish to take popular opinion into account, then consider that this mass-hysteria over healing signet despite it already going to be nerfed in some degree soon ought to fade with time. Much like a ‘Fad’ going on.

That you think it is “mass-hysteria” and not “well deserved mass outrage” speaks volumes for your own delusions.

Xae.7204:

That you think it is “mass-hysteria” and not “well deserved mass outrage” speaks volumes for your own delusions.

This ‘outrage’ has already been addressed by A-Net in the degree of how much they are bringing down healing signet’s sustain by in the near future.

I apologize if I don’t see this ‘issue’ to the degree of which you do, but there are other issues with Warrior balancing I would not mind discussing with you like the distinct lack of viability in going 30 into Strength for more than one build, or perhaps the clunky Banner mechanics the warrior has.

I am deflecting from your arguments, but only because you are repeating the same thing over and over again without giving any response to how other profession mechanics can equate to what a warrior can do. I will agree on one point, that warriors at least have the most variance in what they can run viably in any scenario, but that might be synonymous with how far Warriors have come compared to everyone else who might need more buffs in independant builds. For example, DD eles are going to be strong once again with recent changes. This is progress overall for profession balance and not just outstanding unwarranted cries for needless nerfing of a profession that can’t actually take what a vocal group are suggesting.