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Posted by: kyubi.3620

kyubi.3620

i guess a gear stat reset for everyone who ran zerker is actualy an acceptable compromise (after all ill likely have to spend 100 gold in gear to redo all my zerker piece, same goes for my ascended gear, id rather not waste my gems that way)

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

All you guys who say your investment was “wasted”. Chill out.

If you didn’t enjoy the grind for gear then you shouldn’t play an MMO like this. This game is built upon the grind. They try to make the grind enjoyable and disguise it slightly which is where they try to distinguish themselves from their competition.

SO you should enjoy grinding for new gear if zerker isn’t optimal.

Besides, you people shouldn’t worry….Anet do tiny changes which make no difference. They will probably make some change which only has minor effects on fringe cases or which buffs it in 1 way and nerfs it in another (like thief initiative changes). The end result will be no change to anything.

And that is why this game is dying (FACT – from the latest figures on the game). It is dying because it is not fresh. No new zones, no new races, no new skills, no new weapons, no new dungeons, no new anything. Just a massive grind for achievements where you have to go back to some level 25 zone and 1 shot some terrible mobs (lol- “fun”).

They wont change, and they wont add freshness by nerfing anything too much. The “meta” (lol at pve meta btw) won’t change. SO those worrying should study some history of this game and realise nothing ever changes.

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

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Posted by: DiogoSilva.7089

DiogoSilva.7089

THE SKY IS FALLING.

Oh, god, save me from critical damage changes, least my dignity be swallowed by this black abyss of horrifying news!

Nooo.

Now seriously.

Assuming the “worst”, that the entire stat would be removed, any gear with critical damage would probably get the same treatment as the old MF gear did: the game would allow you to pick new stats. Besides, ascended gear with stat swapping was highly favored in the CDI’s thread for vertical progression, so it’ll probably come some day, in an unknown form. Thank you Mario. But Anet’s evil master plan to take all our money is in another castle.

Assuming the “worst” again, and thinking of the impact it would have in the game… well, it would require a massive re-balance to condition damage and defense. However… at the end of it, it would be the best for this game’s pvp. Currently, the time to kill a player with a focused burst is too high, even Anet thinks so too, so under this assumption, it would attempt to address the problem across all builds.

Critical Damage is also not the most interesting stat out there. Power is the best direct damage stat, and precision can affect direct damage as much as it can affect traits and effects procced by criticals, so it has a dual purpose. Critical damage? “Moar of the same”. It’s a secondary, more restricted version of Power, that has no other purpose but to stack with power for the ultimate boring stat combo. That is, of course, my opinion. I do like critical damage, however, in situations where precision is lower, and the player must rely on fury, traits and auto-crits to benefit from it. That’s the only “unique” building that critical damage offers, I think.

For PvE, a “removal” wouldn’t be the best way to fix the zerker meta, far from it. But considering the massive potential this could have in making pvp a better place (but ONLY after a massive re-balance, which makes the whole thing very unlikely to me), it would have a “better-than-nothing” consequence in pve’s meta.

Still under the extreme assumption that it would be removed, it almost certainly would be replaced by another stat, and it would be perfect if we got a second stat that makes control builds stronger (in addition to condition duration). This would add some interesting geometry. Control builds would have Control Power and Condition Duration, support builds would have Healing Power and Boon Duration. All of them would have a third stat of choice. I would even go further, and change Healing Power to Support Power, and have it directly affect how effective some effects are, like retaliation’s damage and reflection damage.

But all or most of this is incredibly unlikely. Only critical damage is being “changed”. And we have no idea to what.

Maybe condition damage will be made weaker, but will be able to critical? This will make condition builds stronger in PvE, while simultaneously, nerf their defense in PvP (they would have to lose a defensive stat for it). It would be a potentially smart change, no?

Maybe critical damage will be changed to “Critical Efficiency”, and also affect heal skills, making healing builds stronger in PvE, and stronger in PvP at the cost of self-defense. It would allow for good damage/ heal builds in PvE, and good non-bunker healers in PvP. Another potentially smart change?

Anyways, no one has any idea to what will happen to it, so I’m really curious.

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Posted by: Rezz.8019

Rezz.8019

Question: What’s up with warriors?

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Posted by: Valdur.2679

Valdur.2679

hello,

i am speaking from a condition builder side of view. the condition cap is hindering our damage especially our bleads. bleads stack way to fast and the 25 cap limit can be reached by only one player thus 2-3 condition builds in one party just cancel each other out. what are you going to do about the 25 condition cap and the bleeding problem?

also i think poison is such a weak condition that should be buffed either by increasing the damage or making it stack.

a sugestion about the bleeding problem is to make it unstackable like poison is right now (but stackable in length) and raise the damage output of both bleeds and poison alike.

i like to play with conditions a lot but i don’t want to be pointed fingers at because of the zerkers being so overpowered compared to the condition builds. i hope you do something is that regard to balance damage and condition damage. right now things are way to unbalanced against condition builders.

thank you.

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Posted by: kyubi.3620

kyubi.3620

zerker is taking a mortal blow next week so dont worry they wont remove the cond cap. Likely at least 1 condition user per party will be required for maximum effectiveness, the cond cap is the only way to prevent the formation of a 5 cond user team if it was to happen that cond would deal more damage then physical.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Why changing something that isn’t broken?

In spvp/wvw, if you run berserker, you have no defense and quite low hp. It comes with a price. High dmg for low survivability.

Say that to Warriors, Thieves, Mesmers. All have plenty of access to skils that reduce damage/make it hard to be hit and still have plenty of Zerk stats.

I think the bigger problem is, some classes and mechanics are to strong and make not needing any defensive stats on gear easy. All 3 above can do that, Go Zerker and still have plenty of defense thanks to skills, mechanics and other things.

While the adjustments ARE needed to Zerker, they also need to look at why classes CAN go full zerker on gear so easily and not have much fear – thanks to skills and mechanics that are just a bit to strong.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

hello,

i am speaking from a condition builder side of view. the condition cap is hindering our damage especially our bleads. bleads stack way to fast and the 25 cap limit can be reached by only one player thus 2-3 condition builds in one party just cancel each other out. what are you going to do about the 25 condition cap and the bleeding problem?

also i think poison is such a weak condition that should be buffed either by increasing the damage or making it stack.

a sugestion about the bleeding problem is to make it unstackable like poison is right now (but stackable in length) and raise the damage output of both bleeds and poison alike.

i like to play with conditions a lot but i don’t want to be pointed fingers at because of the zerkers being so overpowered compared to the condition builds. i hope you do something is that regard to balance damage and condition damage. right now things are way to unbalanced against condition builders.

thank you.

A long with Crit Damage, Conditions need to be looked at and reduced as well. We all know that if Zerker gets a BIG nerf SO many people will just jump to conditions. I think the over all access and ease of afflicting conditions especially on “burst” needs to be looked and reduced as well.

As for Poison, No it is fine the way it is, sure it could use a bit more access to it but its NOT the damage it deals that makes it good – it is the reduction in healing. Some weapons have a bit to much access, while other build types need more access to it.

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Posted by: Jornophelanthas.1475

Jornophelanthas.1475

The Berserker stats (Power, Precision, Critical Damage %) have a mutually strengthening interaction that is lacking from all the other stats.

Consider:
- More Power => More base critical damage => more damage on a critical hit
- More Precision => Larger chance for critical hits => more average damage
- More Critical Damage % => More bonus critical damage => more damage on a critical hit

The crucial interaction here is that Critical Damage % is a percentage of Power, so an increase in power Power actually increases the absolute value of how much damage a +1% Critical Damage entails .

This is overpowered. Not in itself, but simply because other stats do not have such an interaction.
(There are only two exceptions: Boon Duration % (with boons) and Condition Duration % (with Condition Damage), but those are counteracted. Boon Duration % is counteracted by the limited availability of skills that allow boon stacking, along with the relative rarity of the stat. Condition Duration % is counteracted by (1) the presence of condition removal effects, (2) the damage formula for each specific condition – limiting the effectiveness of the Condition Damage stat, (3) the stack limit on conditions – including those that stack duration, and (4) the fact that condition damage is always rounded down into one-second ticks – wasting any duration that does not reach up to the next tick.)

Toughness, Vitality and Healing Power do not have any such interaction. Having a high Toughness does not increase the value of your heals, and having high Healing Power does not increase your maximum health. Not in the way a high Power increases your critical damage bonus from high Critical Damage %.

Therefore, I think it is entirely fair if the Critical Damage % formula is changed in such a way that it no longer multiplies boosts to Power. In fact, my proposal would be to have it be a percentage of the base (unmodified) Power stat (which is 916 at level 80). I am guessing that this is what ArenaNet already has in mind.

This would mean that players’ critical hits would be dealing less damage. At a Power level of 2748, this would reduce the effectiveness of critical hit bonus damage (both the base critical damage increase and the % bonus from the stat) by two thirds. If this is deemed too strong a nerf, perhaps the the percentage bonus on Critical Damage % could be increased (doubled?) to make up for it.

For all those heavily invested in Berserker gear, this would be a nerf, but not a crippling one. Simply cutting the interaction between Power increase and Critical Damage % increase ensures a more level playing field in the value of all the stats.
Berserker would change from the single best stat combo from a numerical point of view (because it is the only one with a three-way synergy between the stats) to one of many decent stat combos.

(Incidentally, such a step would also be a minor increase to the survivability of Elementalists in PvP/WvW, as they would take less damage from critical hits.)

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Posted by: kyubi.3620

kyubi.3620

Condition damage is limited by the cap, zerker damage is not. Even if they nerfed critical damage in pve to the point it gets under condition damage wed still run only 1 condition user and 4 critical damage for maximum damage effectiveness. You dont have to worry about teams becoming a 5 cond user meta

Crystal Desert, The Darknest Community P.E.T.A.
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(edited by kyubi.3620)

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Posted by: Morgash.3165

Morgash.3165

My concern of any crit change is I think it is still going to be preferred over condition damage in PvE due to stack limits of conditions. Unless the stack limit system is changed I do not see how a change is going to help unless you nerf it to negative damage. Crit on proc + no limit unlike condition damage stacks still would make zerker gear better then condition damage builds.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Condition damage is limited by the cap, zerker damage is not. Even if they nerfed critical damage in pve to the point it gets under condition damage wed still run only 1 condition user and 4 critical damage for maximum damage effectiveness. You dont have to worry about teams becoming a 5 cond user meta

The cap means nothing in Solo/Roaming and even less when you can just burst loads and loads of conditions. Now if Condition builds only had access to ONE condition then maybe but seeing as how they can easily burst loads of conditions onto people it doesn’t mean anything about the Cap

Sure, Myabe in PvE but this change without fixing the Condition meta and the issues with it in WvW would end up meaning that everyone would go Condition build.

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Posted by: stof.9341

stof.9341

Toughness, Vitality and Healing Power do not have any such interaction. Having a high Toughness does not increase the value of your heals, and having high Healing Power does not increase your maximum health.

Actually, yes, yes it does. It’s called “EHP” or “Effective Health Points” if you want to know.

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Posted by: Jornophelanthas.1475

Jornophelanthas.1475

I believe a nerf to Crit Damage % is not so much meant to encourage condition use specifically, but rather to encourage other builds than just “zerker only”.

The recent boost to support skills was meant to encourage use of defensive and support builds.

I recall a quote from a recent interview that upcoming content will offer some new enemy builds that have specific weaknesses to conditions. That is meant as a specific tool to encourage conditions.

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Posted by: Fenrir.3609

Fenrir.3609

Other builds dominate the spvp and WvW meta and are lso more than viable in pve. Are we going to see glass cannon full zerk builds buffed in spvp and WvW or a nerf to the current more tanky metas at the same time?

No, ofc not.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

I believe a nerf to Crit Damage % is not so much meant to encourage condition use specifically, but rather to encourage other builds than just “zerker only”.

The recent boost to support skills was meant to encourage use of defensive and support builds.

I recall a quote from a recent interview that upcoming content will offer some new enemy builds that have specific weaknesses to conditions. That is meant as a specific tool to encourage conditions.

We all know that everyone will just ship to Conditions seeing just how easy it can be to “burst” someone to death with conditions will just take the place of bursting someone to death with direct damage and considering how it is VERY unbalanced how easy it is to apply conditions compared to how easy they are to remove.

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Posted by: Terrahero.9358

Terrahero.9358

I agree with the thing about certain professions having a natively high survivability which supplements zerker gear to well. As it eliminates the drawback of going glasscannon.

As for condition damage i’d opt for a more predictable model. Where conditions are split in two catagories, damage and utility. And pure damage conditions cannot be removed anymore, with a more predictable damage model the damage values can be balanced much more easily.

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Posted by: DiogoSilva.7089

DiogoSilva.7089

If critical damage had a set value instead of being % based on power, this could potentially nerf power-precision-critical damage sets, yes, because it wouldn’t scale as crazily high as it does, but it could also potentially make critical damage stronger (less useless) at low power.

It could potentially open the possibility of precision-critical damage stat setups without much power investment. For example, builds could invest in a defensive stat, and although the base damage would be low, they would still be able to burst occasionally with strong critical attacks.

An arcane elementalist or an unsuspecting foe warrior can be the best examples of this possible scenario. They would burst with their arcane skills or against stunned foes respectively, but otherwise have weak sustain damage in exchange for more defense/ healing power/ whatever.

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Posted by: Jornophelanthas.1475

Jornophelanthas.1475

“Effective Health Points” are an interaction between Toughness and Vitality.
Healing Power does not factor into this directly, because (1) its effectiveness is limited by the various formalae for various healing skills and regeneration, (2) it requires that you have actually been dealt equal or more damage than the healing effect will recover, and (3) combat tractics will not always allow optimal use of healing effects (especially those that trigger passively). All in all very situational.

Having said that, the Toughness/Vitality interaction is similar to the Power/Precision interaction. That is all fine and balanced, because these are two pairs of primary stats.

Critical Damage % is the odd one out, because it is a secondary stat (which is supposed to have a lesser impact than a primary stat, just like Healing Power), but it still has a direct multiplicative synergy with Power, while Precision actually decreases how situational Critical Damage % is (by increasing critical chance). Eliminating one of these synergies would be an act of balancing Critical Damage % to its sister stats of Healing Power and Condition Damage.
(And I am a proponent of removing the interaction between Power and Critical Damage %.)

(edited by Jornophelanthas.1475)

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Posted by: Kicast.1459

Kicast.1459

Question: What’s up with warriors?

Lol with critical damage nerf coming I think they will feel more comfortable with their Healing Signet as they it will be even harder to burst them down.

And Condition Bunker will become even stronger.

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Posted by: Discordia.7293

Discordia.7293

Condition builds is a easy mode. If nerf critical damage, Anet incentives a skill less players and casual.

No alternative for player who want more competition = Incentive to look for other games.

Thief rank 80 – I hate overpower condition duration in wvw.

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Posted by: Jornophelanthas.1475

Jornophelanthas.1475

If critical damage had a set value instead of being % based on power, this could potentially nerf power-precision-critical damage sets, yes, because it wouldn’t scale as crazily high as it does, but it could also potentially make critical damage stronger (less useless) at low power.

Interesting. As you indicate, that would open up multiple builds, and it reduces the necessity to put Power on your gear (which in my opinion is a significant weakness in the equipment system). And since build variety is one of ArenaNet’s stated goals in the balancing act of professions, skills, traits and stats, they may well be thinking along this line.

Condition builds is a easy mode. If nerf critical damage, Anet incentives a skill less players and casual.

No it’s not. That’s just a personal opinion. Condition builds require skill too, because conditions alone do not kill most enemies (unless you are scaled down from 80 in a starter zone). Conditions need to be reapplied, traits and skills can be exploited to deal better direct damage to enemies with conditions on them, and you need to stay alive long enough for the enemy to go down.

Saying conditions require no skill is like saying playing a mesmer/necromancer requires no skill, since the illusions/minions do all your work for you.

(edited by Jornophelanthas.1475)

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Condition builds is a easy mode. If nerf critical damage, Anet incentives a skill less players and casual.

No alternative for player who want more competition = Incentive to look for other games.

Yep, it is already Easy Mode, take away our burst against them and they will become godmode. You can bet NOTHING will be done to fix Conditions though.

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Posted by: Boyd.5438

Boyd.5438

hope they dont break stuff. been broken so many times. break again might be R.I.P. for myself. sad.

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Posted by: kyubi.3620

kyubi.3620

well condition damage can always be fixed with a new buff similar to protection wich reduce all condition damage duration by half :/

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Posted by: NinjaEd.3946

NinjaEd.3946

Nerfing crit damage, yeah that’s really going to remove the pve dps meta and promote diversity….

They didn’t say nerfing, though that’s likely the outcome. Ideally they’d make crits 100% base instead of 50% and remove the stat so power and condition were a bit more even. But who knows.

It’s safe to say they are going to try and nerf it, it’s what they do. It’s sadly also getting increasingly safe to say that they don’t know what they are doing.

if they really wanna help the game why don’t they remove the one mechanic that has no place in a modern mmorpg aka the kitten stealth

don’t understand why dev’s keep insisting in introducing that kitten thing in every game, if a new mmorpg came out and said stealth does not exist in our game i would pay a sub !

nobody likes to fight an invisible enemy that can stealth at will even after attacking !
at least in older games once you come out of stealth and attack it was a lot harder to get back into stealth and escape or whatever, but here the drawbacks are almost none !

you wanna fix something start there !

Cuz you know, you can’t kill that thief in a couple seconds or anything…

Oh and you left your cc skills back at home, shame on you for being ill prepared!

But really, you think stealth is a sufficient mechanic that holds thieves on the top pedastol? Think again, we are best at nothing but stealth accesss which does little good when you have to run from a fight just to heal up vs face tanking and healing and still dealing near the same damage.

I hope we get a power/toughness/crit dmg amulet for once, I want to use hidden killer but executioner is just soo much more delicious atm. Or make actual knight’s jewel, I have enough vitality I need toughness!

“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”

(edited by NinjaEd.3946)

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Posted by: Kicast.1459

Kicast.1459

Honestly, since necro patch I was sure there was a problem in sPvP with condition meta.
It seems that things have deeply changed without being noticed.
I feel sorry for mesmers. (obviously at high level nothing but shatter zerker is still sometimes used). They will have to wait one more year.

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Posted by: kyubi.3620

kyubi.3620

what about phantasm?

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Honestly, since necro patch I was sure there was a problem in sPvP with condition meta.
It seems that things have deeply changed without being noticed.
I feel sorry for mesmers. (obviously at high level nothing but shatter zerker is still sometimes used). They will have to wait one more year.

You do know that Necromancers are WORSE off damage wise since the introduction of Dhuumfire than they were before it right? This has been tested and proven by several different people.

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Posted by: Shogun.7401

Shogun.7401

I have started this game 4 months ago, I have started it off with a thief and I really enjoy my class. I have a complete ascended set for my thief. I will be really disappointed if they nerf zerker build. I am sick and tired of this thief nerf.

I did spent a lot of time and effort to make my ascended gears. If it is a huge thief nerf then I will have to say good bye to gw2.

I don’t want to come here and fight with these developers every day. I would rather look for some other game, which I can enjoy.

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Posted by: Phaeton.9582

Phaeton.9582

95% of good players would like to see a (balanced) zerker meta in spvp, hope this doesn’t squash their dreams

Let’s hope PvE balance doesn’t spill over into spvp this time *cough*quickness*cough*


Phaatonn, London UK

(edited by Phaeton.9582)

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

I have started this game 4 months ago, I have started it off with a thief and I really enjoy my class. I have a complete ascended set for my thief. I will be really disappointed if they nerf zerker build. I am sick and tired of this thief nerf.

It is NOT thief nerf when it happens to EVERYONE.

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Posted by: Kicast.1459

Kicast.1459

Honestly, since necro patch I was sure there was a problem in sPvP with condition meta.
It seems that things have deeply changed without being noticed.
I feel sorry for mesmers. (obviously at high level nothing but shatter zerker is still sometimes used). They will have to wait one more year.

You do know that Necromancers are WORSE off damage wise since the introduction of Dhuumfire than they were before it right? This has been tested and proven by several different people.

Are you arguing that condition bunkers are not the meta today ?

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Posted by: Phaeton.9582

Phaeton.9582

95% of good players would like to see a (balanced) zerker meta in spvp, hope this doesn’t squash their dreams

Let’s hope PvE balance doesn’t spill over into spvp this time *cough*quickness*cough*


Phaatonn, London UK

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Posted by: Boyd.5438

Boyd.5438

gear grinding and constant changing of traits play style etc isnt really fun.

anet timegate everything now and constantly changing stuff thats the core of the game which kinda sucks.

is this the start of an asian MMO where u have to pay to win or grind to death?

meh… why change smth thats not broken.. some classes might not be able to accomodate a pure crit/precision nerf.. like thiefs, have only 10k hp pool on zerker, make them deal lesser damage marks their deaths. changing sets to accomodate changes is also costly and are timegated atm.. why anet? why do you rob us of our existing choices.. are you changing stuff for the better? or making things worse?

straight answers?

what changes are you going to be doing to crit damage?

what is the chances of it being a buff not a nerf?

WHY are you changing it?

WHY do we not get counter buffs instead of nerfs?

WHY do conditions stack 25 stacks max?

WHY are we now limited to 5 targets per aoe?

sad.

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Posted by: sMihaly.1492

sMihaly.1492

95% of good players would like to see a (balanced) zerker meta in spvp, hope this doesn’t squash their dreams

Let’s hope PvE balance doesn’t spill over into spvp this time *cough*quickness*cough*

This… post some more time please, its so true it has to be repeated.

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Posted by: kyubi.3620

kyubi.3620

i dont mind a zerk meta in spvp but there should actualy be room for something else out of spvp, Maybe if they raise the critical damage in spvp and weaken it in pve via gear well get to have something that works, it just sound like the most obvious solution to me.

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Posted by: Nausicca.6038

Nausicca.6038

Why changing something that isn’t broken?

In spvp/wvw, if you run berserker, you have no defense and quite low hp. It comes with a price. High dmg for low survivability.

Say that to Warriors, Thieves, Mesmers. All have plenty of access to skils that reduce damage/make it hard to be hit and still have plenty of Zerk stats.

I think the bigger problem is, some classes and mechanics are to strong and make not needing any defensive stats on gear easy. All 3 above can do that, Go Zerker and still have plenty of defense thanks to skills, mechanics and other things.

While the adjustments ARE needed to Zerker, they also need to look at why classes CAN go full zerker on gear so easily and not have much fear – thanks to skills and mechanics that are just a bit to strong.

In this case, why not nerfing traits such as PU instead of “fixing” zerkers stats?
I need the zerker stats for my shatter build. I have 0 passive defense ( aegis/protection/regen), my iLeap combo is highly predictable and most of time broken, so I do need the burst to control my opponent, to make him/her afraid to fight me in melee.
With the zerker “fix” (nerf), we would see more and more PU builds. Which means more and more passive gameplay. And people are already complaining a lot about PU builds. Never about gc shatter though…

I can’t talk for warrior and thieves, I don’t play these classes.

VoxL, NSPPT

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Posted by: Ghoul.2084

Ghoul.2084

Cute Cute A-Net…it`s fun too see you guys Doesn’t know how too Balance you`r Classes..
Why you not doing something about the keyprobs ?
Like Perma Blind Thiefs who can Blind you everytime you wanna conter, way too strong Weapon skill 3`s. Dodges like trillion spots on a 14 y old boy face..
Give Guards some Builds mentation FTW ? rlly ?
Ranger worst Utility ingame, Mesmer phantasms..BALANCE does damg 50%/50% not 100%/100% 1 Skill spam doing too much ONE skill like ..illusive Berserk.
Necro MM and all does shi** “i click WOW got a bro to help me skills” Minions/Illusions/Thiefs .. no brain no skills easy way let NPCS do all work..

Engi Bunker/condi .. Warrios massive heal regen..Eles big spike damg…
soo hard ? rlly ? since start your dont now what the real probs are playing different game maybe ? super special server ? do something start with balancing… dont sleep..

maybe bring some more elite skills ? normal utility ? you guys are too slow.. over one year now…still sleeping..

so lil wake up call for ya..

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Posted by: kyubi.3620

kyubi.3620

Idm shatter getting nerfed i run phantasm and im not so sure critical damage actualy has an impact. maybe someone should do some test in spvp with dummy to check if gear critical damage actualy affect the phantasm, i think it dont like just all in game pet such as necro summon and ranger pet.

Ghoul just because a skill isnt hard doesnt mean it should be worse then running anything else. You totaly missing the point of what balance means. it means you should be able to run anything with more or better results. If i want to run a MM it shouldnt be so weak as to be near useless. As for minion its not a damage issue and pet should never have their damage nerfed when close to every build in the game already hit 10 time harder, If the issue is one of the build behing to easy then just dont run it if you feel that way because right now lets be honest save for swarming people in pvp phantasm mesmer and minion master necro arent realy reguarded as very viable in pve.

You want one funny joke? right now the auto attack sword ranger meta is better damage wise then running a warrior, so am i screaming for ranger sword to be nerfed? No i aint however i expect the game to offer more option wich wont force me to run such a dumb build, because yes even MINION is smarter then this and unlike what youd like to believe minion is already smarter then most build players run at the moment.

Crystal Desert, The Darknest Community P.E.T.A.
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Posted by: Samhayn.2385

Samhayn.2385

The Berserker stats (Power, Precision, Critical Damage %) have a mutually strengthening interaction that is lacking from all the other stats.

Consider:
- More Power => More base critical damage => more damage on a critical hit
- More Precision => Larger chance for critical hits => more average damage
- More Critical Damage % => More bonus critical damage => more damage on a critical hit

The crucial interaction here is that Critical Damage % is a percentage of Power, so an increase in power Power actually increases the absolute value of how much damage a +1% Critical Damage entails .

This is overpowered. Not in itself, but simply because other stats do not have such an interaction.
(There are only two exceptions: Boon Duration % (with boons) and Condition Duration % (with Condition Damage), but those are counteracted. Boon Duration % is counteracted by the limited availability of skills that allow boon stacking, along with the relative rarity of the stat. Condition Duration % is counteracted by (1) the presence of condition removal effects, (2) the damage formula for each specific condition – limiting the effectiveness of the Condition Damage stat, (3) the stack limit on conditions – including those that stack duration, and (4) the fact that condition damage is always rounded down into one-second ticks – wasting any duration that does not reach up to the next tick.)

Toughness, Vitality and Healing Power do not have any such interaction. Having a high Toughness does not increase the value of your heals, and having high Healing Power does not increase your maximum health. Not in the way a high Power increases your critical damage bonus from high Critical Damage %.

Therefore, I think it is entirely fair if the Critical Damage % formula is changed in such a way that it no longer multiplies boosts to Power. In fact, my proposal would be to have it be a percentage of the base (unmodified) Power stat (which is 916 at level 80). I am guessing that this is what ArenaNet already has in mind.

This would mean that players’ critical hits would be dealing less damage. At a Power level of 2748, this would reduce the effectiveness of critical hit bonus damage (both the base critical damage increase and the % bonus from the stat) by two thirds. If this is deemed too strong a nerf, perhaps the the percentage bonus on Critical Damage % could be increased (doubled?) to make up for it.

For all those heavily invested in Berserker gear, this would be a nerf, but not a crippling one. Simply cutting the interaction between Power increase and Critical Damage % increase ensures a more level playing field in the value of all the stats.
Berserker would change from the single best stat combo from a numerical point of view (because it is the only one with a three-way synergy between the stats) to one of many decent stat combos.

(Incidentally, such a step would also be a minor increase to the survivability of Elementalists in PvP/WvW, as they would take less damage from critical hits.)

you mention wvw and damage in wvw but forget to mention the synergy between dire (tough/vit/condi) with scavanger runes and the current condi/bunker meta we already have.

the only thing I can really see happening is to shift some of the +crit damage over to power. Thus making your base damage higher well reducing the spike damage you can get from large critical hits.


It was 2 vs 20 but its ok we got’em both!

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Posted by: Fenrir.3609

Fenrir.3609

i dont mind a zerk meta in spvp but there should actualy be room for something else out of spvp, Maybe if they raise the critical damage in spvp and weaken it in pve via gear well get to have something that works, it just sound like the most obvious solution to me.

You posted that a nerf to zerk stats will bring more balance because it will be more similar to the spvp set up. Supposedly because that’s fair.

Now you are suggesting that the spvp stat set up is essentially unfair and requires zerk to get a buff in order to balance it out more.

Right…

What about WvW which is directly tied to pve mechanics btw? How does the zerk stat nerf do anything other than further increase the PVT/condi meta dominance there?

If somehow simply nerfing crit dmg makes for a perfectly balanced meta across pve, WvW and spvp, then i’m all for it. If all of a sudden the condi, bunker dominance is broken then great.

Oddly enough I’m not convinced nerfing crit dmg is going to do that, are you?

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Posted by: Phaeton.9582

Phaeton.9582

95% of good players would like to see a (balanced) zerker meta in spvp, hope this doesn’t squash their dreams

Let’s hope PvE balance doesn’t spill over into spvp this time *cough*quickness*cough*

This… post some more time please, its so true it has to be repeated.


Phaatonn, London UK

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Posted by: Nike Porphyrogenita.8137

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137

Remember Anet, players prefer buffs to weak things than nerfs to strong things. Choose carefully before you decide to destroy the community.

Death and Taxes [DnT]
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Posted by: kyubi.3620

kyubi.3620

i dont mind a zerk meta in spvp but there should actualy be room for something else out of spvp, Maybe if they raise the critical damage in spvp and weaken it in pve via gear well get to have something that works, it just sound like the most obvious solution to me.

You posted that a nerf to zerk stats will bring more balance because it will be more similar to the spvp set up. Supposedly because that’s fair.

Now you are suggesting that the spvp stat set up is essentially unfair and requires zerk to get a buff in order to balance it out more.

Right…

What about WvW which is directly tied to pve mechanics btw? How does the zerk stat nerf do anything other than further increase the PVT/condi meta dominance there?

If somehow simply nerfing crit dmg makes for a perfectly balanced meta across pve, WvW and spvp, then i’m all for it. If all of a sudden the condi, bunker dominance is broken then great.

Oddly enough I’m not convinced nerfing crit dmg is going to do that, are you?

what we need is critical damage for both pvp and pve to stand between about both

Spvp doesnt give enought critical damage while pve gives to much what about getting something between?

Crystal Desert, The Darknest Community P.E.T.A.
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Posted by: Boyd.5438

Boyd.5438

meh, can u guys keep spvp and pve/wvw seperate?

you dont get foods in spvp that give +100 power or toughness or vitality etc or a combination of both.. nor do u get foods that give you 40% reduced condition damage etc

as anet stated awhile ago, PvE and WvW aint ment to be fair. there is always a Risk vs Reward thing.

if a thief can only do less than 4k backstab on a pvt guardian with 19k – 20k hp, that nerf is bad.

characters and the choices are kinda fine atm i think, unless anet is gonna change crit burst abit higher or combine it with a different stat but… jesus, please dont nerf it from existing damage point.

the risk of running on zerker is high where you get hit, u die. no chance to heal, no chance to recover.

running defensive build you can take hits, hp drop, heal up, continue hitting.. or kite around and heal then go back in… totally no challenge or need to learn how to play at all…

some zerker just cannot be hit at all or thats it, needs more skills, hence reward of killing things faster.

find a proper balance, please dont punish everyone for some silly complains about zerkers being OP.

you can someone with no clue of their class equipment that are PVT + ZERKER stats combined, double the armor, double the vitality, they still die regardless because they just cant play right… the sacrifice @ survivability to damage is quite high. altho in numbers you can take less damage, but in reality, you take one hit ure downed/dead

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Posted by: Exxcentric.5146

Exxcentric.5146

Well, just my 2 cents….

Somehow i think that crit damage is going to be changed from a linear stat to a logarithmic on (its been done on several MMO’s and most effectively; of those i have played; on LOTRO).

Its an easy fix and easy implementation.

However, IMHO, I think the biggest problem with stats at the moment is the fact that gear influences such a minor number of stat options.

In particular the grouping of power with critical damage and precision, was not well thought out and even the changing of the crit stat to a log statistic wont affect direct damage builds too much while u can access all 3 major direct damage stats from 1/2 armor sets (zerk/assassins). There needs to be some tradeoff, or gameplay centric requirements for the other stats to have a look in. And some access to altering buffs that are currently available.

Ie. Crit damage/fury %bonus +/fury duration would have been a much more interesing stat than pow/pre/critdamage

or Condition damage/%might scaling/Confusion duration

or Precision/Invisiblity LOCKOUT duration reduction/Movement speed

or Power/%Retaliation damage increase/apply protection on being hit (with cooldown as opposed to %chance so i actually know when i get to use it!)


well i am sure u get what i am trying to say… the limited amount of stat changes make the builds extremely stale when it comes to gear stat selection and so of course ur gonna get 99% go direct damage for no requirement of skill or though of gameplay when it stares u in the face every time u hit the trade post.

anyway, i dont think the change will be anything major. It will likely be a diminishing returns system as opposed to a major removal. Prbly like armor set will set of diminishing returns, and trinkets will give u very little bonus… still something but not value for money…. etc.

had high hopes that the ascended gear would not go down the same lines as the old stuff but with +10 stats but oh well. /sigh

:)
exx

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Posted by: Lucey.1452

Lucey.1452

So the big question is what’s going to happen with this “crit damage nerf”.

When setting primary and secondary stats it is done ratiometrically (i.e. secondary stats are 70%) for crit damage, this value should be around 7% of the primary value.

Right now crit damage on all pieces is fairly out of whack, especially around scaling for trinkets. Right now crit damage scales at around 11%. As such, a fair nerf would be to bring it down to 6% for amulets, 5% for rings, 4% for earrings, and 4 for the backpiece. As well, the scaling of the other secondary stats are off atm as they are too low. As such, this secondary stat should be improved for ascended pieces to 90 for amulets, 73 for rings, 65 for earrings, and 40 for the backpiece.

As for armor, crit damage needs to be improved a bit. Where helms now have 3% instead of 2%, and the armor has 7% instead of 5%. All the other ascended pieces are good scale wise for ascended armor.

All in all, this will results in a 13% drop in crit damage, with about a 2% increase in crit chance.

But the point is, this will be a fair scaling that should not “ruin” the zerk meta but just result in kills being about 7% slower.

SoS
Professional Bag Farmer and Under Bridge Resider

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Posted by: Darkened.4076

Darkened.4076

0) Warrior sustain.
- Healing signet + adrenal health HPS is too high for a passive that cannot be interrupted and poison has less effect on than other heals (requires perma poison rather than carefully timed poison burst)
- Zerker stance too long for perfect immunity, either reduce length or lower immunity to %. (Jonathan we discussed this ages ago…)

You may or may not play a warrior – but this is written as someone who faces a warrior – not plays one full time. As someone who mains warrior and understands it within WvW to a very high level, the healing signets ‘use’ is its own balancing. If you ‘use’ healing signet, you are totally without healing for 20 seconds unless traited or a healing field presents itself (and lets face it, if your forced into using it the chances of you going down are dramatically increased). As for adrenal health – unless your really low, you should be spending the bars on the burst skills within this environment. Zerker stance is used by warriors who build into DPS builds and therefore need the immunity – its on a long enough cooldown. Both can be countered, so both are balanced. You might have been talking about SPVP here, but I don’t want a ‘fix’ there, breaking the ability somewhere else (unless they go down the road of keeping it separate).

1) Warrior mobility. Mainly for wvw, warriors can escape anything with little risk in some weaponsets due to how their gap closers can be used to bridge distance without a target. Bring these in line with other gap closers and lower the movement spam. Having warriors in heavy armor outpace thieves is just wrong.

Last time I checked, the most common build on a warrior in this environment was Sword/Warhorn | Hammer. That doesn’t give them more mobility than a thief. They need the gap closer’s to get in and out of battle, they are mainly (and should be) a melee class in this environment. Can be countered by correct use of immobilize (which is still broken if you know who to use it) – totally fine.

6) Something needs to be done about ele base health/survivability. The ratio and dependency on having to build defensively when other classes don’t require it is just too far off atm.

They might need a buff in SPvP, but in WvW elementalists are fine as long as they are built correctly and take the right tools. People need to learn to understand that in different game types you take different roles as a class.

8) Can you like give rangers a bone or something so they don’t spam how bad they are in every thread? Maybe a tsun cat pet or something to distract them?

First piece of sense you have spoken in your entire thread. Rangers need a serious fix for WvW (not going to talk about other modes since your primarily talking about WvW within your post – or at least it appears that way). Their pets need a drastic reduction to AOE damage they take (like 90% reduction) and maybe a small direct damage reduction. Then arena-net needs to decide what role they actually want them to fill and fix that one role first.

10) WVW guard stacks too strong - well mainly the guard defense ones. Getting +250 vit (2500 health) is a huge boost to many builds, especally for glass classes. This needs to be toned down – what about splitting it like the offense stacks to 25 vit, 25 toughness per stack? (Even then it should be less but this is a start)
.

Nope, stacks are fine. Everyone has access to them, yes its a stat inflation, but its a stat inflation for everyone (since everyone can get access to it). Damage builds can some more health so they are more ‘tanky’, melee can drop a small amount of health if they wish for a little more damage. Stacks arn’t used in anything that matters (GvG) – so this is fine.

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(edited by Darkened.4076)

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Posted by: Darkened.4076

Darkened.4076

The main things that need to be addressed in this stream are:

> Critical Damage: I really hope Anet Devs understand HOW this is different across three(four) different game types. Please consider the effects on all of them, not just the one you’ve turned your attention too. I think Dev’s need to accept that players will fine other ways of speed running dungeons. Critical damage in WvW is fine. SPvP from the sounds of it needs a small buff, since all i hear about these days is the condition meta over there.
> Please leave sigil stacking alone in WvW, but open up more options for sigils general instead of the constant cross internal cd.
> Please talk about the elephant in the room, which is rangers in WvW.
> Maybe take some time just talking about your current view on SPVP, PVE and WvW.

In effect this is actually what I’m most concerned about – Anet has a history of focusing on one game-type (trying to balance things – sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t get it right) – but It almost always effects the other game-types negatively – I think you need to be really careful here, consider the effects across the whole game (which I’m sure/hopefully you have done) and make it very clear to people so there isn’t a massive freak out.

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