Guild Wars 2

Kicast.1459:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Kicast.1459:

Honestly, since necro patch I was sure there was a problem in sPvP with condition meta.
It seems that things have deeply changed without being noticed.
I feel sorry for mesmers. (obviously at high level nothing but shatter zerker is still sometimes used). They will have to wait one more year.

You do know that Necromancers are WORSE off damage wise since the introduction of Dhuumfire than they were before it right? This has been tested and proven by several different people.

Are you arguing that condition bunkers are not the meta today ?

No i am saying, Necro is weaker now than before it even got Dhuumfire. Even with how strong Conditions are now, if they nerf Zerker builds TOO much it will make the Condition meta EVEN worse.

If they are going to hit Zerker builds, they have to nerf Condition builds as well.

as an afterthought ….
wat they should do is make all the armor just armor +1 major stat.

and then provide dropdown boxes (the coding is already there it was there for the MF reset and legendaries) to select and choose stats from a bunch of buffs altering stats.

Different gear sets could have access to different (but overlapping) buffs…. ie Zerkers could get fury/might/swiftness altering stats, while say clerics could get ability to critical on heal/condition removal on **** effect/condition duration decrease/swiftness/ etc…

This would not be overly difficult to implement… and sure it could lead to imbalances, but it was these imbalances and the fact that we didnt have cheesecutter builds in GW1 that made that such an exception game.

This would also not invalidate temple gear etc stuff that has been grinded for because you could give these gear sets access to special/additional stat choices and would make the ENTIRE game more interesting (not that i dont love it now, just saying that let the players choose, dont force them more and more into corners!!)

Lucey.1452:

So the big question is what’s going to happen with this “crit damage nerf”.

When setting primary and secondary stats it is done ratiometrically (i.e. secondary stats are 70%) for crit damage, this value should be around 7% of the primary value.

Right now crit damage on all pieces is fairly out of whack, especially around scaling for trinkets. Right now crit damage scales at around 11%. As such, a fair nerf would be to bring it down to 6% for amulets, 5% for rings, 4% for earrings, and 4 for the backpiece. As well, the scaling of the other secondary stats are off atm as they are too low. As such, this secondary stat should be improved for ascended pieces to 90 for amulets, 73 for rings, 65 for earrings, and 40 for the backpiece.

As for armor, crit damage needs to be improved a bit. Where helms now have 3% instead of 2%, and the armor has 7% instead of 5%. All the other ascended pieces are good scale wise for ascended armor.

All in all, this will results in a 13% drop in crit damage, with about a 2% increase in crit chance.

But the point is, this will be a fair scaling that should not “ruin” the zerk meta but just result in kills being about 7% slower.

You’re completely right here, but I honestly think that these differences currently benefit mix and match gears oven pure zerkers.
Whenever I try to combine different pieces, I make sure that critical damage is slotted on trinekts and ignore it for other pieces where “opportunity cost” is higher.

Evenly scaling critical damage cost would hurt more, IMHO, something like a soldier/zeker mix than a full zeker spec.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

DiogoSilva.7089:

If critical damage had a set value instead of being % based on power, this could potentially nerf power-precision-critical damage sets, yes, because it wouldn’t scale as crazily high as it does, but it could also potentially make critical damage stronger (less useless) at low power.

Interesting. As you indicate, that would open up multiple builds, and it reduces the necessity to put Power on your gear (which in my opinion is a significant weakness in the equipment system). And since build variety is one of ArenaNet’s stated goals in the balancing act of professions, skills, traits and stats, they may well be thinking along this line.

Discordia.7293:

Condition builds is a easy mode. If nerf critical damage, Anet incentives a skill less players and casual.

No it’s not. That’s just a personal opinion. Condition builds require skill too, because conditions alone do not kill most enemies (unless you are scaled down from 80 in a starter zone). Conditions need to be reapplied, traits and skills can be exploited to deal better direct damage to enemies with conditions on them, and you need to stay alive long enough for the enemy to go down.

Saying conditions require no skill is like saying playing a mesmer/necromancer requires no skill, since the illusions/minions do all your work for you.

Ok, my opinion is related to PvP / WvW. All classes that use condition has an absurd defense, as engi condition, warrior, necro, mesmer… is very easy to play.

For example: Rabid → condition + thougness + precision: too much defense and attack
Carrion → condition + power + vitality: the same.
Dire → condition + vitality + thougness: OP.

Berserk → precision + power + crit dmg: high DPS and low defense.

In short a condition build has more survival than a dps

The conditions builds are already more unbalanced than the dps, if they reduce the critical dmg, the game will lose all the fun.

So here’s a thought: what if instead of nerfing anything, they simply incorporate Crit Damage into a bonus multiplier for Condition Damage?

I know Crit Damage doesn’t affect Condition Damage, but that’s just the current system. Couldn’t they implement some kind of bonus to Condition + Crit Damage set up so they multiply off each other? That way zerker stays the same, but Conditions get a buff if they have added Crit Damage.

kyubi.3620:

Fenrir.3609:

kyubi.3620:

i dont mind a zerk meta in spvp but there should actualy be room for something else out of spvp, Maybe if they raise the critical damage in spvp and weaken it in pve via gear well get to have something that works, it just sound like the most obvious solution to me.

You posted that a nerf to zerk stats will bring more balance because it will be more similar to the spvp set up. Supposedly because that’s fair.

Now you are suggesting that the spvp stat set up is essentially unfair and requires zerk to get a buff in order to balance it out more.

Right…

What about WvW which is directly tied to pve mechanics btw? How does the zerk stat nerf do anything other than further increase the PVT/condi meta dominance there?

If somehow simply nerfing crit dmg makes for a perfectly balanced meta across pve, WvW and spvp, then i’m all for it. If all of a sudden the condi, bunker dominance is broken then great.

Oddly enough I’m not convinced nerfing crit dmg is going to do that, are you?

what we need is critical damage for both pvp and pve to stand between about both

Spvp doesnt give enought critical damage while pve gives to much what about getting something between?

What we need, is for some of those advocating a stat nerf on here and (more importantly) for the devs themselves, to realise that if you actually want to address meta issues (such as zerk in pve), then you need to address the gameplay combat mechanics and mob AI.

Tweaking up or down crit damage will not balance out or improve the meta in pve, spvp or WvW and it certainly won’t improve it across the board when viewed as a whole. If anything it is more likely to make things worse.

If you really want to get serious about this, then a major gameplay/combat overhaul is needed and pvp/pve skills need to be totally separated. But everyone with any sense of reality and any experience with ANet thus far in this game knew that was never going to happen.

Instead what we are going to get will benefit no one aside from a handful of people who really only care that “those nasty zerkers” get a bit of a shafting.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Kicast.1459:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Kicast.1459:

Honestly, since necro patch I was sure there was a problem in sPvP with condition meta.
It seems that things have deeply changed without being noticed.
I feel sorry for mesmers. (obviously at high level nothing but shatter zerker is still sometimes used). They will have to wait one more year.

You do know that Necromancers are WORSE off damage wise since the introduction of Dhuumfire than they were before it right? This has been tested and proven by several different people.

Are you arguing that condition bunkers are not the meta today ?

No i am saying, Necro is weaker now than before it even got Dhuumfire. Even with how strong Conditions are now, if they nerf Zerker builds TOO much it will make the Condition meta EVEN worse.

If they are going to hit Zerker builds, they have to nerf Condition builds as well.

im like 99% sure this is going to be a nerf for crit. ima thief. im used to it. if they ruin my full zerk ascened gearw im quitting.

anyway yeah ur right meta is without doubt conditions. they ignore armor. they are aoe….easily spread.. . do dmg while ur dodging/invis/blocking/invul. they are beastly. so they have to nerf condi if they nerf crit.

anet just keeps breaking more and more things in the game. they need to buff ewak areas.

What they could do – Make Condition damage just like Physical damage with a reduction on damage based on on much Toughness the target has.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

What they could do – Make Condition damage just like Physical damage with a reduction on damage based on on much Toughness the target has.

Are you a warrior main…?

So nerffing critical damage while letting the condition nonsense run ramprant. Gosh… I’m pretty sure the current dev team isn’t the same as the one that made the game. Their design philosophy is simply too differend and they are turning the game upside down.
Well, what can you expect from someone who said that “spirit ranger is great skill”.

Zero Day.2594:

Are you a warrior main…?

God no One class that i tried about 9 months ago and hated it. Just curious as to why you would think that? surely this would be a BUFF to EVERYONE’S defense if this sort of change happened.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Zero Day.2594:

Are you a warrior main…?

God no One class that i tried about 9 months ago and hated it. Just curious as to why you would think that? surely this would be a BUFF to EVERYONE’S defense if this sort of change happened.

Buff to everyone… slightly..
necro/ele/mesmers – wont be getting a buff since they’re at the lowest base armor/toughness… they would have to invest into something that makes them more “tough” thus sacrificing something for it.
thieves/rangers/engies – a slight buff, since they’re the 2nd lowest base armor, won’t be taking as much damage as necro/ele/mesmers… still to become a bit more tougher they would need to invest…
warrior/guardians – a buff, since they’re the the highest base armor, they can invest to become even tougher but they wouldn’t have to, since they would be say as tough as mediums investing a bit and lights investing a lot.
That’s kinda without numbers and very general… but yeah something like that would happen.

The illusion of it being a buff to everyone including the light armors would be that they see lower condition numbers, however… (With anything additional, aside from toughness from armor/gear, to make it simplier), Conditions ticking (doing damage) on a light armor wearer would be the maximum that conditions can tick for, while on the heavy it’s the minimum. Thus only mediums (slight) and heavies got a buff, for lights it wasn’t a buff at all.

Lordrosicky.5813:

All you guys who say your investment was “wasted”. Chill out.

If you didn’t enjoy the grind for gear then you shouldn’t play an MMO like this. This game is built upon the grind. They try to make the grind enjoyable and disguise it slightly which is where they try to distinguish themselves from their competition.

SO you should enjoy grinding for new gear if zerker isn’t optimal.

Besides, you people shouldn’t worry….Anet do tiny changes which make no difference. They will probably make some change which only has minor effects on fringe cases or which buffs it in 1 way and nerfs it in another (like thief initiative changes). The end result will be no change to anything.

And that is why this game is dying (FACT – from the latest figures on the game). It is dying because it is not fresh. No new zones, no new races, no new skills, no new weapons, no new dungeons, no new anything. Just a massive grind for achievements where you have to go back to some level 25 zone and 1 shot some terrible mobs (lol- “fun”).

They wont change, and they wont add freshness by nerfing anything too much. The “meta” (lol at pve meta btw) won’t change. SO those worrying should study some history of this game and realise nothing ever changes.

Absolute bullkitten.

If you put effort into something, you do not expect it to be arbitrarily taken from you.

That is life.

They are sooooooooo sloooooow….Some runes and sigils are overshadowing others for 1 year now.Why didnt they put less runes but more balanced?
So many runes that noone ever touched for a whole year…Really?

My thoughs:

• Runes and sigil rework
  Perplexity for pve, Lyssa for pvp. Both need a nerf. Perplexity could use a much higher ICD or better lose 1x of the effects completely. Lyssa in pvp could do without stability, a 90s ICD, OR revert currupt boon (full strip or 5th spot stability ). A fix to necro burn condispam to compensate..

Sigil of Energy . The sigil is ok, VIGOR has always been the problem, turning that +1 bonus dodge into 2-3.

• Critical damage changes
  SOUNDS GREAT. A step against PvE zerker meta is always welcome.
  spvp max +62 c.dmg.
  pve max +120 c.dmg. i think. Maybe +90/100 max ?
  Maybe make c.dmg. only as the small " 4th stat " ?

• New stat combinations for PvP (amulets)
  1) INCREASE CELESTIAL AMU , maybe jewel too
  2) A POW/prec/tough would be too strong. 3rd stat needs to be split in 2x 4th stat, like valkyre. Maybe power not being main? It must not have same dmg and same sustain than condi amulets
  3) More overal customization

• High-level overview of planned balance changes
  Waiting for burning condition nerf for 3/4 years Every OP condition build required it. And the “skill” procs…. Suggestion:
  Give it bad scaling, so its more bonus damage to power/con.dur. builds. And make the intended sustain from it 1-2s short, while the big skills should hit 5-10s burns. Give it counterplay basicaly

Zero Day.2594:

Buff to everyone… slightly..
necro/ele/mesmers – wont be getting a buff since they’re at the lowest base armor/toughness… they would have to invest into something that makes them more “tough” thus sacrificing something for it.
thieves/rangers/engies – a slight buff, since they’re the 2nd lowest base armor, won’t be taking as much damage as necro/ele/mesmers… still to become a bit more tougher they would need to invest…
warrior/guardians – a buff, since they’re the the highest base armor, they can invest to become even tougher but they wouldn’t have to, since they would be say as tough as mediums investing a bit and lights investing a lot.
That’s kinda without numbers and very general… but yeah something like that would happen.

The illusion of it being a buff to everyone including the light armors would be that they see lower condition numbers, however… (With anything additional, aside from toughness from armor/gear, to make it simplier), Conditions ticking (doing damage) on a light armor wearer would be the maximum that conditions can tick for, while on the heavy it’s the minimum.

I would say the % reduction would be different across the classes so that at level 80, no traits, armor, accessories, weapons, runes or anything they would have have the same base % reduction and then it would be how you built, what stats you took, what trait lines you went into and such.

@Dardamaniac:
They had to prioritize.

The first six months were spent fixing bugs and exploits. The next six months were spent upgrading WvW and PvP, and ever since, they have been focusing on improving game balance (i.e. reworked skills, reworked traits, new healing skills). The Runes/Sigils thing is part of that.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Zero Day.2594:

Buff to everyone… slightly..
necro/ele/mesmers – wont be getting a buff since they’re at the lowest base armor/toughness… they would have to invest into something that makes them more “tough” thus sacrificing something for it.
thieves/rangers/engies – a slight buff, since they’re the 2nd lowest base armor, won’t be taking as much damage as necro/ele/mesmers… still to become a bit more tougher they would need to invest…
warrior/guardians – a buff, since they’re the the highest base armor, they can invest to become even tougher but they wouldn’t have to, since they would be say as tough as mediums investing a bit and lights investing a lot.
That’s kinda without numbers and very general… but yeah something like that would happen.

The illusion of it being a buff to everyone including the light armors would be that they see lower condition numbers, however… (With anything additional, aside from toughness from armor/gear, to make it simplier), Conditions ticking (doing damage) on a light armor wearer would be the maximum that conditions can tick for, while on the heavy it’s the minimum.

I would say the % reduction would be different across the classes so that at level 80, no traits, armor, accessories, weapons, runes or anything they would have have the same base % reduction and then it would be how you built, what stats you took, what trait lines you went into and such.

That’s a bit confusing, if you mean that everyone would get the same reduction at 80 regardless of which armor category they fall into would mean that there would have to be another stat added to the game (say Resistance (popular in most RPG’s))…
As soon as you add the befinites of what armor category they fall into, it’s becomes the same thing I’ve mentioned.
I wouldn’t mind having another stat, though, what would I have to sacrifice (what other stat? Toughness? Health?) in order to increase it? And this is where we should stop because, it would get into talking about how it’s implemented, what kind of runes… what kind of trait-lines/traits… what are the trade-offs… how it effects class X… how it effects class X vs Y vs Z…

Zero Day.2594:

That’s a bit confusing, if you mean that everyone would get the same reduction at 80 regardless of which armor category they fall into would mean that there would have to be another stat added to the game (say Resistance (popular in most RPG’s))…
As soon as you add the befinites of what armor category they fall into, it’s becomes the same thing I’ve mentioned.
I wouldn’t mind having another stat, though, what would I have to sacrifice (what other stat? Toughness? Health?) in order to increase it? And this is where we should stop because, it would get into talking about how it’s implemented, what kind of runes… what kind of trait-lines/traits… what are the trade-offs… how it effects class X… how it effects class X vs Y vs Z…

What i meant was that the % reduction would be balanced in a way that every class at level 80 would have the same reduction, this would mean the lower armor classes would need a higher base reduction to counter the fact they have less Toughness.

So basically, come level 80 every class has say 10% Condition Damage Reduction and then adding more and more Toughness would increase that.

Another possible solution as you stated, add another Stat Condition Toughness, Condition Resistance or what ever. they would need to find a way of how to get it onto Armor, weapons and such.

One way they could do it is by allowing ALL armor, accessories, weapons and such would be able to have X amount of resistance added for free OR the player could choose a little buff to one of the other stats to give you a choice either go for say power or go for resistance against conditions

Question: If you make severe changes to berzerker gear are you going to allow people to change the stats of their ascended gear considering how hard it is to make those sets? Or even exotic gear because its still expensive to make? Just remember how many armor pieces full zerk sets have and what we have to go through to get it before changing anything. If you do change it give us the option to change the stats on all ascended zerk items. That includes trinkets and back pieces.

Question: Does Jon Peters feel like he’s the next Gabe Amatangelo?

whos Gabe Amatangelo?

Arlette.9684:

Question: Does Jon Peters feel like he’s the next Gabe Amatangelo?

It’s possible, SWTOR was big on release, after a while there wasn’t enough people to fill the que system for the PvP battles.

Wait till the launch of ESO and see if there is a que time for WvW.

kyubi.3620:

whos Gabe Amatangelo?

THINK he worked on Star Wars: The Old Republic

I wouldnt mind seeing them fully remove crit damage as a stat on gear and allow us to replace it with a defensive or support stat.

Currently, most dungeons and bosses are trivialized by the huge numbers going out. Wearing full zerker gear makes most fights WAY too easy – it requires almost no skill and isnt fun for many of us. Its hard to argue against that when there are videos of groups killing legendary dungeon bosses in just a few seconds (that shouldnt be mathematically possible, imo).

Balancing zerker (or even removing the concept of zerker gear from the game) with other sets will allow them to better balance fights around more than just health pools.

I also agree with many that I would like to see this be more than just a change to zerker – but also a change to the way fights work to encourage more build diversity. However, I think the first (and simplest) step needs to be bringing zerker in line with other gear sets in PVE.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

What i meant was that the % reduction would be balanced in a way that every class at level 80 would have the same reduction, this would mean the lower armor classes would need a higher base reduction to counter the fact they have less Toughness.

So basically, come level 80 every class has say 10% Condition Damage Reduction and then adding more and more Toughness would increase that.
…

Right there, that’s the thing I was talking about how heavies would get buffed, mediums would receive a slight buff and lights wouldn’t get buffed…

Right now the only way for Ranger’s to keep up damage-wise in WvW in Zerg’s is going full zerker. And even like this we still lag behind everyone in damage because 30% of our damage is tied to our pet which is normally dead in the first two seconds of the zerg battle, or in last night’s zerg battle, my spider died of a heart attack before the battle even started, don’t ask me how it happened, maybe a stealth thief missed me and hit the pet, I’m not sure. If damage is reduced even more what will happen to ranger’s with their already 30% damage handicap? And please don’t tell me to learn to use the pet, because the pet is completely useless if I’m defending a keep or attacking a keep, even my bird won’t fly up to attack as if he’s afraid of heights. For a class like Warrior that does insane DPS and thief with their insane burst and get out of jail free card, and the like, where would this leave the ranger?

Zero Day.2594:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

What i meant was that the % reduction would be balanced in a way that every class at level 80 would have the same reduction, this would mean the lower armor classes would need a higher base reduction to counter the fact they have less Toughness.

So basically, come level 80 every class has say 10% Condition Damage Reduction and then adding more and more Toughness would increase that.
…

Right there, that’s the thing I was talking about how heavies would get buffed, mediums would receive a slight buff and lights wouldn’t get buffed…

How so? Everyone would start at 10% and then get more by taking more Toughness. Though i think a better solution would be a new stat that would perform the same way but wouldnt be connected to Physical damage reduction

Gabe is the guy who single handedly costed Bioware and EA millions, just a month after release and more or less drew the map of SWToR’s downfall.
Before that Gabe Amatangelo was behind abominations like the Bright Wizards.

In a sense the guy is brilliant when it comes to driving players/customers out of the joint.

Akisame.9508:

Arlette.9684:

Question: Does Jon Peters feel like he’s the next Gabe Amatangelo?

It’s possible, SWTOR was big on release, after a while there wasn’t enough people to fill the que system for the PvP battles.

Wait till the launch of ESO and see if there is a que time for WvW.

Tier 1 eu server here since ascended armors (maybe its not related dunno) queue dropped from 3-4 hours to 10 min in eternal iin prime time.
Queue totaly dissappeared on other maps while they were at least half an hour…

They keep going on with extremely impopular Patches, they even know how impopular they are and they still go on…..

Look already how many views this and related threads have….

Blaeys.3102:

I wouldnt mind seeing them fully remove crit damage as a stat on gear and allow us to replace it with a defensive or support stat.

Currently, most dungeons and bosses are trivialized by the huge numbers going out. Wearing full zerker gear makes most fights WAY too easy – it requires almost no skill and isnt fun for many of us. Its hard to argue against that when there are videos of groups killing legendary dungeon bosses in just a few seconds (that shouldnt be mathematically possible, imo).

Balancing zerker (or even removing the concept of zerker gear from the game) with other sets will allow them to better balance fights around more than just health pools.

I also agree with many that I would like to see this be more than just a change to zerker – but also a change to the way fights work to encourage more build diversity. However, I think the first (and simplest) step needs to be bringing zerker in line with other gear sets in PVE.

what is skill? taking longer to do the same thing? stats have little to do with the content difficulty, its more about the encounters themselves.

Basically, if a team can take down a boss in 1 minute, halving the dmg, that team would still take down the boss in 2 minutes. The truth is what makes these speed clear groups clear fast isnt 1 stat, its knowing stacking, proper use of buffs/active defesnses, and dealing with poor enemy AI. Essentially knowing how to maximize their own dmg, and knowing how and what the enemy will do. The enemy falls for it everytime.

It’s all well and good to be in support of a change to the all zerker meta, but I have to wonder if changing crit damage will actually achieve that. At best its a very superficial answer, at worst it does nothing to help the problem. I suspect the later will happen. As has been said before, the problems are with condition damage (effected by a cap and defiant/unshakeable) and mob ai / active defense that trivializes the need for stat-based defense. It’s not that crit damage is too strong, its that everything else is broken or unecessary. So yes, you could break crit damage to bring it down to the same level as condi damage, but doesn’t it make more sense to address condi damage?

Even though we don’t know the specifics, approaching the problem from the crit damage angle is backwards. That’s why “zerkers” are showing concern. You can be in support of a broader pve stat meta and still be against changing berserker stats. “anything to mix up the stale kitten kitten zerk meta” – this is not an intelligent way to approach the problem. Any change will not necessarily be a good change.

awesome, render zerker stats useless just after releasing ascended armor. perfect gold sink isn’kitten i bet im not the only one who rather would quit then doing all the grind again lol.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

How so? Everyone would start at 10% and then get more by taking more Toughness. Though i think a better solution would be a new stat that would perform the same way but wouldnt be connected to Physical damage reduction

Zero Day.2594:

Buff to everyone… slightly..
necro/ele/mesmers – wont be getting a buff since they’re at the lowest base armor/toughness… they would have to invest into something that makes them more “tough” thus sacrificing something for it.
thieves/rangers/engies – a slight buff, since they’re the 2nd lowest base armor, won’t be taking as much damage as necro/ele/mesmers… still to become a bit more tougher they would need to invest…
warrior/guardians – a buff, since they’re the the highest base armor, they can invest to become even tougher but they wouldn’t have to, since they would be say as tough as mediums investing a bit and lights investing a lot.
That’s kinda without numbers and very general… but yeah something like that would happen.

The illusion of it being a buff to everyone including the light armors would be that they see lower condition numbers, however… (With anything additional, aside from toughness from armor/gear, to make it simplier), Conditions ticking (doing damage) on a light armor wearer would be the maximum that conditions can tick for, while on the heavy it’s the minimum. Thus only mediums (slight) and heavies got a buff, for lights it wasn’t a buff at all.

Unless i’m not understand you, that you take
10% reduction + f(toughness)

So, for exotics, the base light armor would have 920, medium 1064, heavy 1211 (for the example the numbers don’t matter so much as light<medium<heavy because of base armor)…
Thus
10% + f(920) < 10% + f(1064) < 10% + f(1211)
which is
light < medium < heavy
And for the fun of it, let’s give precentages (again numbers dont matter so much as who’s higher):
33% < 50% < 66%

Right now, lets say that any condition damages for a max of 100/sec… regardless of any armor/reduction.
But with the reduction it will be:
66 > 50 > 33

So, the maximum damage for conditions will be 66/sec on a light target, min dmg would be 33 on a heavy.
The max dmg now becomes almost like a baseline… by that i mean
Mediums will recieve 16/sec less damage, while heavies will recieve 33/sec less damage… however the light armor will recieve the max 66/sec. Now let’s say our memories are whiped clean by someting from the MiB, and we don’t remember 100/sec, Light armor is recieving maximum damage while other armor classes are recieving less. True those armor classes got buffed, but light armor didnt. The ability to increase one’s armor/% will vary but will be aviable to all, on average the top will be true though.
Don’t know if that makes sense or not… i can try to clarify (when i’m back).

So yeah… better idea is to introduce a new stat for that… but that’s too big.

Wearing Zerkers makes nothing easy. Pick up clerics gear and healing/supporttraits and weapons. Pick up 4 friends who do this and facetank everything coming in your way.
Disable your dogdekey and please do never use things like aegis or blind. Have mercy with poor mobs who can´t kill imbalanced unkillable pve facetanks.

Stop talking about this crap that zerkers gear makes content easier.

Zero Day.2594:

So yeah… better idea is to introduce a new stat for that… but that’s too big.

The base would be 10% and then any added on Toughness via traits, gear, weapons, accessories would increase it. So you pretty much ignore what every class starts with Toughness wise as no matter how high or how low it is, it would always be 10%

I think something similar to how Precision into Crit Chance would work for the required Toughness for 1% Condition damage reduction.

Though, lets be honest, we wont get EITHER conditions will just be left alone and left to grow ever more powerful…

For all of you that are jumping ship if the changes are not to your liking, I will be still accepting donation of gold and materials.

phys.7689:

Blaeys.3102:

I wouldnt mind seeing them fully remove crit damage as a stat on gear and allow us to replace it with a defensive or support stat.

Currently, most dungeons and bosses are trivialized by the huge numbers going out. Wearing full zerker gear makes most fights WAY too easy – it requires almost no skill and isnt fun for many of us. Its hard to argue against that when there are videos of groups killing legendary dungeon bosses in just a few seconds (that shouldnt be mathematically possible, imo).

Balancing zerker (or even removing the concept of zerker gear from the game) with other sets will allow them to better balance fights around more than just health pools.

I also agree with many that I would like to see this be more than just a change to zerker – but also a change to the way fights work to encourage more build diversity. However, I think the first (and simplest) step needs to be bringing zerker in line with other gear sets in PVE.

what is skill? taking longer to do the same thing? stats have little to do with the content difficulty, its more about the encounters themselves.

Basically, if a team can take down a boss in 1 minute, halving the dmg, that team would still take down the boss in 2 minutes. The truth is what makes these speed clear groups clear fast isnt 1 stat, its knowing stacking, proper use of buffs/active defesnses, and dealing with poor enemy AI. Essentially knowing how to maximize their own dmg, and knowing how and what the enemy will do. The enemy falls for it everytime.

You are right to a degree. However, I contend that longer fights (in some situations) are good for the game. Killing a boss too fast means the boss doesnt have time to put out the consistent damage or cycle mechanics that require mitigation, support, etc. Now, I do lay some of this on boss design – but before they can design a boss that requires those things, we have to be sure that every group (even those hyper efficient at dealing damage) will see those mechanics enough times to actually matter. Requiring players to focus on more than just pure dps adds depth to the game.

Keep in mind im talking about legendary bosses that die in seconds, not minutes, to these groups.

I’m one hand thrilled about this announcement, but on the other hand I’m not. I invested alot of time to gear up. I took a break for a few months, and I came back just as ascended armour crafting was introduced. I now allmost have a full armour set, already have all 4 weapons. It would be a shame if that investment went to waste. Due to work and real life I don’t see myself doing it a second time. I really hope they know what they are doing with these changes.

I don’t mind changes as long as the changes are fair across all specs.

I just spent pretty much all my resources for ascended gear, so if it gets nerfed now I won’t be very happy. If it is anything close to a big change I want the option to choose new stats, like they did with magic find gear.

Blaeys.3102:

You are right to a degree. However, I contend that longer fights (in some situations) are good for the game. Killing a boss too fast means the boss doesnt have time to put out the consistent damage or cycle mechanics that require mitigation, support, etc. Now, I do lay some of this on boss design – but before they can design a boss that requires those things, we have to be sure that every group (even those hyper efficient at dealing damage) will see those mechanics enough times to actually matter.

Keep in mind im talking about legendary bosses that die in seconds, not minutes, to these groups.

I completely agree with you but …
… when you look closely at numbers, it’s not clear at all that this is caused by stat combinations like berserker.

Using a Guardian zeker meta build as standpoint, you can replace every weapon weapon / armor piece for soldier ones (just keeping the zeker trinkets, main source of cheap critical damage) and still retain over 80% of the original damage output.
A boss which dies in 20 seconds in full zeker, does it in 25 seconds with a fairly balanced gear setup that could cover quite better any mistake.
Any nerf on critical damage would do nothing but decrease those differences, which are rather small IMHO.

Big differences on killing speed are caused by other, usually overlooked, sources.
Proper might, fury and vulnerability stacking, which tend to be lackluster in PuG groups, are one of this sources.

Finally, the most obvious and most overlooked damage source comes from those percent final damage increases on sigils/runes/traits.
If you go from the 10/30/0/5/25 spec I used for calculations to something like 0/0/30/20/20 where you can get Altruistic Healing and Empowering Might, you don’t just lose next to 25% damage output from obvious stat reallocations and giving up Right Hand Strength (replaced with Retributive Armor); you also lose:

• 10% increased damage against burning foes
• 10% increased damage against enemies inflicted with conditions
• 10% increased damage with sword
• 1% increased damage for every boon you have

Which are all multiplicative and add up for about a 38% damage increase with 4 boons.
The trait reallocation almost reduced the original damage by HALF, even more if you replace Scholar Runes with something different.

In terms of damage, both, the good stacking of boons and vulnerability, and sigil/rune/trait choices are A LOT more important than gear stats.
A fully soldier geared character using damage oriented sigils, runes and traits can easily outdamage a full berserker one on a fairly defensive spec.

Josh Davis.6015:

Citizens,

This Friday at 2PM PST (22:00 GMT) we’ll be hosting another episode of Ready Up. I’ll be joined by Game Designers Jon Peters, Jon Sharp, Karl McLain, and Roy Cronacher.

In this episode we’ll be talking about a few of the things the Skills and Balance team is working on for the next balance update, including:

• Runes and sigil rework
• Critical damage changes
• New stat combinations for PvP (amulets)
• High-level overview of planned balance changes

You can catch the livestream at www.twitch.tv/guildwars2

As a heads-up, we won’t be running a Q&A segment during this show like previous episodes of Ready Up. However, feel free to leave questions/comments below and I’ll use them to guide our discussions on Friday.

We’ll see you then!

are you going to lower the server capacity prophylactically tomorrow, just in case many players will quit the game after the dev livestream + unnecessary changes to critical damage?

Quick suggestion/question.

Possibility of more trinkets added to PvP to allow build diversity.

Is this a possible addition some time in the future?

NoTrigger.8396:

unnecessary changes to critical damage

There have been plenty of suggestions/ theories to critical damage in this thread that would make GW2’s combat better.

Because we don’t know what Anet will do to the stat, it’s too early to claim that change will be unnecessary.

DiogoSilva.7089:

NoTrigger.8396:

unnecessary changes to critical damage

There have been plenty of suggestions/ theories to critical damage in this thread that would make GW2’s combat better.

Because we don’t know what Anet will do to the stat, it’s too early to claim that change will be unnecessary.

it is the lazy way of fixing something.

to fix PvE, they would have to rework most monsters/content.
instead they are going the lazy way and ’"fix" something that isnt broken.

the change will be unnnecessary. because the change will not fix anything at all.

Ugh… yes? I’m confused, lol. I can’t even understand some of the posts here!

When I see people writing about the current condition bunker meta, I’m like yes… are you talking about PvP or PvE? I’m pretty sure these post are about sPvP/tPvP and WvW, but you never know! They could be saying that condition is THE BEST in PvE, which I find to be amusing.

Most of us all know that conditions are pretty much useless in PvE compared to straight up glass cannon damage dealers. Fighting a champion with a team of condition dealers is not as effective as fighting it with a team of berserkers. Sure, the condition dealers are more tanky (and will always get there last on the kill), but conditions should just be as effective as pure raw damage.

Here are some possible changes (in order of importance):
-The maximum stacks on dps-conditions should be increased dynamically or removed completely.
-Add two new stats combinations: [Condition, Condition Duration, Toughness] & [Condition, Condition Duration, Vitality]
-Additional Critical Damage should be capped at 100% – just like how Condition Duration is capped at 100%.
-New conditions should be introduced to limit the overwhelming advantages that glass cannons take for granted in PvE. For example, a condition(s) that reduces the following: the damage of a critical strike by 33%, critical hit chance by 20% (if critical hit chance falls below zero, all attacks become glancing blows), takes damage for dealing a critical hit based on a percentage of the total damage dealt, etc.

The advantages that glass cannon berserkers often take for granted and enjoy are a second chance, an extremely high downed state health pool, and power in number. All of these advantages are tied together so nicely that berserkers so seldom look on defensive stats (because there’s no need to!). What we have in the current zerker meta for PvE looks like this:
-Let’s zerg that champ!
-Dodge dodge!
-“Oh no, one of our teammates is down!” (downed state -second chance)
-“Don’t worry, he won’t die. Concentrate on the champ!” (the health a zerker gained from being down is so much that the champ will go down before the zerker runs out of downed HP)
-“Yes! We killed it!” (that was quick… strength in number – noo… I mean the number of zerkers!)

A team of berserkers can kill a mob/champ so fast that downed allies don’t have to worry about not being able to rally off from tagging the mob/champ. If only there’s something to hinder and get in the way of berserkers being able to attack without any worry or cost… such as the hax spells from GW1 (eg. Diversion & Backfire). Maybe then, people would think twice about joining a team fulled of zerker.

And then, we also know that glass cannon builds in PvP are amusing to fight against – because, sometimes I have no clue how they got downed. It was AN ACCIDENT!

what if crit damage relied on another stat? that way, you couldn’t get a lot of crit damage by sacrificing full armor.

NoTrigger.8396:

DiogoSilva.7089:

NoTrigger.8396:

unnecessary changes to critical damage

There have been plenty of suggestions/ theories to critical damage in this thread that would make GW2’s combat better.

Because we don’t know what Anet will do to the stat, it’s too early to claim that change will be unnecessary.

it is the lazy way of fixing something.

to fix PvE, they would have to rework most monsters/content.
instead they are going the lazy way and ’"fix" something that isnt broken.

the change will be unnnecessary. because the change will not fix anything at all.

Yes, but we don’t even know what they are even trying to fix yet with this change.

Fenrir.3609:

kyubi.3620:

Fenrir.3609:

kyubi.3620:

i dont mind a zerk meta in spvp but there should actualy be room for something else out of spvp, Maybe if they raise the critical damage in spvp and weaken it in pve via gear well get to have something that works, it just sound like the most obvious solution to me.

You posted that a nerf to zerk stats will bring more balance because it will be more similar to the spvp set up. Supposedly because that’s fair.

Now you are suggesting that the spvp stat set up is essentially unfair and requires zerk to get a buff in order to balance it out more.

Right…

What about WvW which is directly tied to pve mechanics btw? How does the zerk stat nerf do anything other than further increase the PVT/condi meta dominance there?

If somehow simply nerfing crit dmg makes for a perfectly balanced meta across pve, WvW and spvp, then i’m all for it. If all of a sudden the condi, bunker dominance is broken then great.

Oddly enough I’m not convinced nerfing crit dmg is going to do that, are you?

what we need is critical damage for both pvp and pve to stand between about both

Spvp doesnt give enought critical damage while pve gives to much what about getting something between?

What we need, is for some of those advocating a stat nerf on here and (more importantly) for the devs themselves, to realise that if you actually want to address meta issues (such as zerk in pve), then you need to address the gameplay combat mechanics and mob AI.

Tweaking up or down crit damage will not balance out or improve the meta in pve, spvp or WvW and it certainly won’t improve it across the board when viewed as a whole. If anything it is more likely to make things worse.

If you really want to get serious about this, then a major gameplay/combat overhaul is needed and pvp/pve skills need to be totally separated. But everyone with any sense of reality and any experience with ANet thus far in this game knew that was never going to happen.

Instead what we are going to get will benefit no one aside from a handful of people who really only care that “those nasty zerkers” get a bit of a shafting.

QFT. It’s a shame so many don’t understand this.

So any way we can keep any changes to crit damage out of WvW? The absolute last thing we need is to encourage the garbage, broken condi meta any more.