Guild Wars 2

Greetings all, and i apologize for my terrible English in advance.

First of all before hating this post or the idea by default listen to my reasoning, and you will see it wont change your most beloved game, and game play to worse.

Second, i would like to point out, that the reason behind taking away trinity was wrong to begin with.

1, Trinity gives characters a certain combat role , that was needed because of the game mechanic to succeed.
2,Gw2 had a system mechanic that does not call for these roles.
3, Why take it away then?

Your “excuse” to cripple the game play and combat variety to this extent was : Players dont have to wait so long for party and certain roles. (to do anything in general)
Which was a wasted effort to begin with, since you dont need those roles to succeed.
(not sure the devs were aware how there own system worked)

As a side note : LFG wait time is higher then anyone could dream of (to my opinion and years of experiance. Let it be pug or guild team or friends on ts.)
As non side note. Generally players tend to pick certain classes and “setups”, because its more effective. And that is like picking a healer instead of a “dps” class.
So basically you taken the the variety of roles a player can take up in combat, and further custumize its game play or combat, or generally his character, and achived the same favoritism.

And before anyone gets into the point of denying this i suggest to look at the forums and realize the 80% of the posts is around this theme, its the root of the frustration of the 80% of the players, that do bother about the game to the point to look at least the official forums, and wish to see others opinion. So its not rambling chant.

Dont get me wrong, i do not favor trinity in general, but in this situation it would not do any wrong to the game, but it would bring back a lot of fun to many players.

For example there is a champion, you dont need a tank or healer to bring it down, but you feel like you want to support your friends, and you go healer. Does THIS destroy the game? I dont think so. What it does is : You feel your character more personal, your own. It becomes an extension of yourself, because it does what you want to, it is like you want to, and it is not forced to be a general all around thing that all classes are right now. (or more like smacking machines all in zerkers)

Yes players would do try to bring a healer and a tank in each party, BUT they could chose not to, as they do right now. So you cant blame trinity or healer or game mechanic, when its the players behavior is to blame…no it seems not even the most caring game planning and mechanic can counter human behavior. I hope you understand this Anet….(at least not in all aspects of the game).
And NO, we dont have currently viable “support” or “tank” character or character setups. No matter how hard you struggle you wont be a viable healer as elementalist in current meta. And they wont bring you to dungeons or pvp to heal, they will bring you down for a certain aspect your character has (like condition removal), which is not your intent, and you wont feel more useful because of it. And will know, that you are not there to heal, so spare yourself the lies and admit it, “there are no viable support or tanks”.

I am looking forward to all your opinions on this topic, and i hope the people that need to read this do read it, and think about what they have done.
All have a nice day.

Even if they would bring back trinity they could not do it in this game. You can’t change the core mechanics of a game.

You obviously like GW2. What I don’t understand is why anyone would want trinity in this game. There are other games you could play for trinity. This game works perfectly fine w/o it. This game is not crippled in any way by not having it. The mechanics are more straight forwarded (do damage), and I love it.

You could play WoW, ESO online, or something else

You logic is flawed, there is no ‘bringing back Trinity’ since Guildwars never had a Trinity, consequently, it was never ‘taken away from it’ and thus there is no ‘Why take it away then’.

Secondly, your characters combat role is not defined by, and does not need to be defined by it’s class/profession.

Also, why “Trinity”?

RPGs have 6 combat-related roles. Just because you compare things to World of Warcraft which implemented only 3 of them doesn’t mean that Buffer, Debuffer and CCer aren’t viable combat-roles. :o

Nekroseth.5186:

And before anyone gets into the point of denying this i suggest to look at the forums and realize the 80% of the posts is around this theme, its the root of the frustration of the 80% of the players, that do bother about the game to the point to look at least the official forums, and wish to see others opinion. So its not rambling chant.

This is so daft …

If you want to make up some fake wannabe statistics, at least try harder to keep them somehow realistic.

The problem is not trinity, in the hard (your class is healer, your is tank, your is DPS) sense, it is the lack of practical tradeoffs in builds.

The cost in DPS for going survival it too high, because ANet insists that we all must dodge because it makes combat oh so exciting (active combat, or “i swing a sword, i swing a sword again”).

Then there is no practical aggro management, and Defiant makes CC a no go alternative for most pugs.

And to further counteract the “heal bot”, most ranged heals are ground targeted.

And to top it all off, there are virtually zero build options that noticeably distinguish boons from a support build from that of a DPS build.

End result, stack and spank in DPS gear.

1. make dodge a option, not a requirement, depending on build. If you want to run DPS, learn to dodge. If not, allow us to actually make a stand.

2. replace Defiant with a system that give longer recharges on CC when used against strong mobs.

3. turn GT support into projectiles that bounce or AOE around the target. Thus allowing someone to keep attacking a mob while supporting those near it.

4. provide a stat for boons equivalent to condition damage.

digiowl.9620:

1. make dodge a option, not a requirement, depending on build. If you want to run DPS, learn to dodge. If not, allow us to actually make a stand.

That’s already been done. So why is there always someone whining that you can’t facetank stuff when it’s clearly possible (maybe except for some of the highest level fractals)?

It only works right now when everyone is running HP builds.

What i am looking for is individual choice. If there is a mix of builds right now you have to dodge, no ifs or buts about it.

digiowl.9620

Spoke my mind, when i say bring back trinity i generalize. I dont actually want a “WoW” style of class or combat system. That would need a totall remake of the game anyway.

What i want is to have combat roles….ACTUAL ROLES, not this “want to be” roles.
Trough Tera has roles, combat still feels A LOT MORE ACTIVE. Bosses dont 1 shot you but, you will fail sooner or later if you dont dodge a few big attacks atleast. Not to mention you can atleast spot the kittening instagib attacks and react in time.

“1. make dodge a option, not a requirement, depending on build. If you want to run DPS, learn to dodge. If not, allow us to actually make a stand.

2. replace Defiant with a system that give longer recharges on CC when used against strong mobs.

3. turn GT support into projectiles that bounce or AOE around the target. Thus allowing someone to keep attacking a mob while supporting those near it.

4. provide a stat for boons equivalent to condition damage."

Changes like this dont need a FULL redesign of the game, but still would improve the game and its combat system by 400000% .

GW2 already has an intentional “soft trinity” of sorts.
Arenanet calls it Damage, Control, Support.

Warriors lean towards Damage, Necros towards Control, Guardians towards Support.
Damage is… well, damage.
Control is CC of all sorts plus area control.
Support is Boons and healing applied to your allies, that sort of thing.

The system is just busted because often you can just spec for Damage and get adequate Control and/or Support on top of it with little to no investment.
Plus Control is an almost useless role in PvE due to Defiant…
The healing side of Support is usually just too weak to do much, Boons can be great, though.
Might especially, but Fury, Swiftness and Protection, too.

A trinity-like gameplay still exists as an option.
It’s just clearly suboptimal for farming and something you won’t see on PUGs because the required specs and sinergies are different from the META ones.

LastDay.3524:

GW2 already has an intentional “soft trinity” of sorts.
Arenanet calls it Damage, Control, Support.

Please don’t mix systems just because they can both be described as sets of three.

The “trinity” people refer to (actually a set of 6 combat-related roles out of ~10 roles in RPGs) are “hard” roles in comparison to what you state.
A healer is a healer. The setup of role balance demands that a healer is incapable of sustaining damage above what a damage dealer can, or deal damage above what a tank can. Vice versa for the other roles, ofc.

This is a far call from the plurality of roles GW2 has, and mind you, the three you cite are far from all of them if you look at any specific encounter or format.

I always have to say this, every time this topic comes around: There ARE roles in this game. However, these roles are more subtle, and are not defined by gear. No, gear is largely meant to be about preference in play.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Thief: Defiance stripper, aggro management, defensive utilities, evasion tank.
Guardian: Offensive buffer, Healer, block tank, projectile management.
Elementalist: Offensive and defensive buffer, healer, combo field user/finisher highest PVE DPS, miscellaneous utility
Engineer: Debuffer, high CC and immobilization, Healer, buffer, combo field user/finisher, extremely versatile miscellaneous utility (capable of fulfilling any role to a satisfactory extent)
Mesmer: Mobility, aggro management, high CC, block and evasion tank, projectile management, high miscellaneous utility, and also sometimes healer.
Warrior: unique buffs, self buffer, high durability for sustained DPS.
Necromancer: Debuffer, high durability, miscellaneous utility
Ranger: Rage magnet (seriously though, I don’t know much about rangers)

Running around in dungeons with pugs a lot, I’ll find that we’ll be lacking in the strangest utilities that other classes have. For example, sometimes we’ll fail due to a lack of projectile blocking/reflecting, or a lack of condi cleanses, or a lack of defensive utilities via protection/blinds/heals, or the strangest one which was a lack of range. Different classes have different combo fields, which and different finishers to use in those fields.

At no point in fulfilling any of these roles should a class have to sacrifice independence. This is what the trinity does, though. To have the trinity, you need DPS that is too weak to take hits, heals that are ineffective except with durable targets, and an aggro manager who lacks the durability and DPS to fully survive an encounter.

CptAurellian.9537:

Nekroseth.5186:

And before anyone gets into the point of denying this i suggest to look at the forums and realize the 80% of the posts is around this theme, its the root of the frustration of the 80% of the players, that do bother about the game to the point to look at least the official forums, and wish to see others opinion. So its not rambling chant.

This is so daft …

If you want to make up some fake wannabe statistics, at least try harder to keep them somehow realistic.

87% of all statistics are made up anyways.

If 80% of forum posters are frustrated, that’d mean ~8%-10% of the total population are? Not baaaaad. I mean it means that the problem is pretty minor?

tl;dr

Trinity back? No!

“The setup of role balance demands that a healer is incapable of sustaining damage above what a damage dealer can, or deal damage above what a tank can. Vice versa for the other roles, ofc.”

I also wanted to point out this, but its actually hard to put it in words that actually have an effect on others.
What the game needs is a variety of “combat roles”. Classes feel way to general to my taste and i am sure a lot others mean this when they simply say “combat is boring”. It is not truly true, but they probably wish for more customization.

*The problem with guild wars 2 is, that you might get more tanky or supportive, but the trade of is insane, for the gain. While you can get along with a few downed states when you go full glass.

I am sure if they would take out Downed state, but you could not be 1 hitted, the game would actually have a LOT more place for “support” classes and builds.*
I am sure it would be more fun.

I am also sure adding more options beside dodge, that could prevent you from getting 1 shot, (like warriors have shield block and few classes have parry, there should be more “general ones” to) would make the combat truly more active.

I think that this thread (and most of what people are saying) is mostly wrong.

There is a variety in viable combat roles. I could spec into being a very powerful support/healer as an ele or guardian, a scout as a thief (this one is pretty much useless because dungeons are the same every run, so you don’t need a scout), an interesting control/tank as a mesmer with clones, heck pretty much everyone can go full tank and just afk autoattack everything to death slowly.
You could have some amazing control builds, like a decap style engi in PvE.

The problem isn’t that these builds don’t exist, or that they aren’t strong. In fact, mixing these into your parties would probably make runs quite a bit easier. It’s just that, at the same time, they make the runs much slower.

In every RPG, people will spec to give runs the highest success rate first and foremost, and secondly the highest clear speed. This is why there is always a meta, because while many different things can get you through the dungeon, there is almost always something that will do it fastest. In GW2, however, the first requirement is pretty much null and void because the content isn’t demanding enough for there to be any uncertainty about whether a maximum DPS group can clear it, and thus the best groups are automatically DPS groups. This isn’t to say that a non-full-DPS group wouldn’t have an easier time, because it would, but it’s just unnecessary and ends up slowing down runs.

If content increased in difficulty, you would definitely see a greater demand for different specs in PvE. You might even get some greater team variety (though it’s nearly certain that a new best meta would solidify) because of the significant variety of roles and builds in GW2.

So no, trinity wouldn’t solve anything, or even change anything. Everyone would still run full DPS because healers and tanks would still be unnecessary, and you might even lose some roles that do exist now.

People forget that when you have a trinity, it’s conducive to lazy behavior. “Someone will heal me, oh I died, it’s your fault….bad healer”…. On the boss hit me in the face, kittenty tank can’t hold aggro.

Gw2 is in a great place with the way it works. My fractal groups are incredibly organized, and nothing feels “random”

P Fun Daddy.1208:

If content increased in difficulty, you would definitely see a greater demand for different specs in PvE. You might even get some greater team variety (though it’s nearly certain that a new best meta would solidify) because of the significant variety of roles and builds in GW2.

I think you would see something else first and foremost: An entire ocean of tears because the dungeons are impossible to complete, especially from the people who are right now calling for nerfs to the meta etc.

CptAurellian.9537:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

If content increased in difficulty, you would definitely see a greater demand for different specs in PvE. You might even get some greater team variety (though it’s nearly certain that a new best meta would solidify) because of the significant variety of roles and builds in GW2.

I think you would see something else first and foremost: An entire ocean of tears because the dungeons are impossible to complete, especially from the people who are right now calling for nerfs to the meta etc.

I would drink them and love it.
But seriously, having to struggle a little is never a bad thing in videogames. Effortless wins get boring after a while.

Bowflex.4502:

People forget that when you have a trinity, it’s conducive to lazy behavior. “Someone will heal me, oh I died, it’s your fault….bad healer”…. On the boss hit me in the face, kittenty tank can’t hold aggro.

This actually drove me nuts when playing a Warlock in WoW until ~mid-TBC (I switched to Shaman after that).
No matter how good you played as a DPS, beyond a stupid meter saying you did well there was no perceivable way to “be a good player”. Damage players just exist as a number, how much can you push out. That’s all you do. Healers and Tanks, the fight makes or breaks based on what they do. Damage Dealers finish the fight 20 seconds faster.

Meh.

It was better in EQ1 (played Enchanter, some would argue even more core to any dungeon party than Cleric) and DAoC (Mind Mastery Mentalist, one of 6 in the entire game, people invited me for the novelty factor of grouping with me :P ).

Allowing for the trinity to exist instantly makes it the most effective way to play the game, meaning the metas in each game mode will shift to accomodate it and effectively remove what ANet did in the first place with their design of the new trinity.

GW2 is designed to be a game of all dps classes, with minor attention being paid to support and control roles.

They should, in my opinion, do more things like Power Block pre-smiter’s boon nerfing it, to allow for more diversity. Adding a shutdown aspect to combat has it’s place, but it can’t be as strong as a 10 second shutdown on everything. The new areas Power Block allowed for putting on cool down should only be allowed to be impacted 3ish seconds at most.

Nekroseth.5186:

Yes players would do try to bring a healer and a tank in each party, BUT they could chose not to, as they do right now.

So they should change the game to force people to bring a tank and a healer because that’s the way you like the game better.

Nekroseth.5186:

And NO, we dont have currently viable “support” or “tank” character or character setups. No matter how hard you struggle you wont be a viable healer as elementalist in current meta. And they wont bring you to dungeons or pvp to heal, they will bring you down for a certain aspect your character has (like condition removal), which is not your intent, and you wont feel more useful because of it. And will know, that you are not there to heal, so spare yourself the lies and admit it, “there are no viable support or tanks”.

I am looking forward to all your opinions on this topic, and i hope the people that need to read this do read it, and think about what they have done.
All have a nice day.

You have to realize that what you just described is working as intended.
When Anet made this game they specifically wanted people to not be able to be healers and support in this game does exist.
The only issue is that you expect support to do nothing else but support while in GW2 support does damage and support.

Please understand that the game is this way because it was designed and built to be this way.
Please understand that the majority of players that play GW2 play it for what it is and specifically for not being a trinity game.
Please understand that there will never be viable support or tank characters in GW2 and that if that’s what you’re looking for in a game this is probably not the game you want to play.

Also it would be nice if you stopped making up percentages, stating your opinions as facts and generally posting biased opinions as “this is the way it is”.

Also your take on the LFG tool is completely wrong.

Also saying things like " if you want to go healer will it destroy the game? " – no it will not.
But don’t expect anyone to take you along. So what do you do next? You try to change the game to force people to take you along. Which is wrong.

Thank you to BloodRed for posting about roles – I will quote him hoping people read and understand.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I always have to say this, every time this topic comes around: There ARE roles in this game. However, these roles are more subtle, and are not defined by gear. No, gear is largely meant to be about preference in play.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Thief: Defiance stripper, aggro management, defensive utilities, evasion tank.
Guardian: Offensive buffer, Healer, block tank, projectile management.
Elementalist: Offensive and defensive buffer, healer, combo field user/finisher highest PVE DPS, miscellaneous utility
Engineer: Debuffer, high CC and immobilization, Healer, buffer, combo field user/finisher, extremely versatile miscellaneous utility (capable of fulfilling any role to a satisfactory extent)
Mesmer: Mobility, aggro management, high CC, block and evasion tank, projectile management, high miscellaneous utility, and also sometimes healer.
Warrior: unique buffs, self buffer, high durability for sustained DPS.
Necromancer: Debuffer, high durability, miscellaneous utility
Ranger: Rage magnet (seriously though, I don’t know much about rangers)

Running around in dungeons with pugs a lot, I’ll find that we’ll be lacking in the strangest utilities that other classes have. For example, sometimes we’ll fail due to a lack of projectile blocking/reflecting, or a lack of condi cleanses, or a lack of defensive utilities via protection/blinds/heals, or the strangest one which was a lack of range. Different classes have different combo fields, which and different finishers to use in those fields.

At no point in fulfilling any of these roles should a class have to sacrifice independence. This is what the trinity does, though. To have the trinity, you need DPS that is too weak to take hits, heals that are ineffective except with durable targets, and an aggro manager who lacks the durability and DPS to fully survive an encounter.

Nekroseth.5186:

And before anyone gets into the point of denying this i suggest to look at the forums and realize the 80% of the posts is around this theme, its the root of the frustration of the 80% of the players, that do bother about the game to the point to look at least the official forums, and wish to see others opinion. So its not rambling chant.

And NO, we dont have currently viable “support” or “tank” character or character setups. No matter how hard you struggle you wont be a viable healer as elementalist in current meta. And they wont bring you to dungeons or pvp to heal, they will bring you down for a certain aspect your character has (like condition removal), which is not your intent, and you wont feel more useful because of it. And will know, that you are not there to heal, so spare yourself the lies and admit it, “there are no viable support or tanks”.

First and foremost, what most People seem not to understand is that Berzerker is a gear choice and not a build. You go all zerker gear, which improves your attributes. It is not a build. The build you choose is selected by traits, and a lot of those speedclear buddies take a lot of defenseive or Support traits. There you have your roles.

And 80%? What about PvP. There are tank builds and Support builds in PvP. This means, the roles are viable, but the PvE design does not demand them or at least Support those roles.
And btw. taunt is the most ridiculous skill in the history of all PvE… This should never come back. It was only designed, becuase the programmers were/are not able to make NPC’s smart enough.

Trinity will do one Thing. Force two out of five People into Tank and Healer. Healer will stand behind and spam “Heal”. Tank will stand in front of the mob and spam"taunt". Everybody else will spam dps behind the mob while stacking. Running/Dodging out of voids. Mobs that are not worth killing will be skipped.
The same as we have now, simple change is, even more brain afk spamming skills while skipping + the eventual Interrupt. Great demanding design you have there.

The Problem lies simply in Balance, the Dodge system and PvE design. There will always be an ultimate build for an encounter. It’s impossible to make everything viable without making it the same. And like others and me repeatedly say: PvE Needs smarter AI and different abilities. That will make it more interesting. And Dodge is… well… not well made.

Trinity is a lazy and unimaginitive Workaround for the Problem but not the solution!
Let ANET and other companies figure out a solution that is more intuitive and better than that robotic PvE design called unholy trinity.

Even though there is no trinity, you will see that certain classes CANNOT take certain roles compared to other classes. It is not the diversity as was advertised when the game launched…

sternenstaub.8763:

Nekroseth.5186:

And before anyone gets into the point of denying this i suggest to look at the forums and realize the 80% of the posts is around this theme, its the root of the frustration of the 80% of the players, that do bother about the game to the point to look at least the official forums, and wish to see others opinion. So its not rambling chant.

And NO, we dont have currently viable “support” or “tank” character or character setups. No matter how hard you struggle you wont be a viable healer as elementalist in current meta. And they wont bring you to dungeons or pvp to heal, they will bring you down for a certain aspect your character has (like condition removal), which is not your intent, and you wont feel more useful because of it. And will know, that you are not there to heal, so spare yourself the lies and admit it, “there are no viable support or tanks”.

First and foremost, what most People seem not to understand is that Berzerker is a gear choice and not a build. You go all zerker gear, which improves your attributes. It is not a build. The build you choose is selected by traits, and a lot of those speedclear buddies take a lot of defenseive or Support traits. There you have your roles.

Nope. The reason they do this is because zerker impacts DPS incredibly well, while any gear that would boost support do so poorly.

Why should i care if aegis lasts 5 seconds or 10 seconds, when the very next attack wipes it out anyways? If the pr unit performance of ferocity or might changed depending on the build, then there would be true build choices. But they don’t so there is none.

“So they should change the game to force people to bring a tank and a healer because that’s the way you like the game better.”

No. I am saying give us the option even if not all would take it.

Other games give you that option.
What you’re doing is similar with going to the developers of Star Craft 2 and saying " I want to play the game like an FPS from the perspective of a Marine – give that to me".

SC2 is not designed to cater to FPS fans.
GW2 is not designed to cater to traditional trinity-MMO fans.

Harper.4173:

Other games give you that option.
What you’re doing is similar with going to the developers of Star Craft 2 and saying " I want to play the game like an FPS from the perspective of a Marine – give that to me".

SC2 is not designed to cater to FPS fans.
GW2 is not designed to cater to traditional trinity-MMO fans.

Was this done by the developers?
Is it part of the “official” game?

I think not.

No mounts and no healers plsplspls

Harper.4173:

Was this done by the developers?
Is it part of the “official” game?

I think not.

Developers developed a way to make this possible.

Yes but that isn’t part of the core game. It’s not supported or endorsed.

It’s like modding Skyrim. I might have given a poor example but the fact remains – this is not the game they want and they should stop asking that this game be made into WoW 2.0.

Nekroseth.5186:

“So they should change the game to force people to bring a tank and a healer because that’s the way you like the game better.”

No. I am saying give us the option even if not all would take it.

the game already gives you the option. you ll have to mix in a heavy CC user for controlling the mobs.
you can already make super tanky tanks, and super strong healers.
start looking into ele/engi blast finishers on water fields.

Problem is, without the game forcing people to, the large majority of players dont actually want to play this way. Trinity games generally nerf hybrids to the ground, and build fights that need healers or you will fail.

What it really comes down to, is though you say 80% of people want this, you cant find these people to play with, because turns out given an option, people dont by and large, want this.

Some people want trinity because they need a dps and a heal bot and thats all.

I’d say that it’s less that this game needs “the” Trinity, and more that ANet’s “faux-” or “soft-” Trinity needs to be evenly implemented.
We were promised a game based on the concepts of Damage, Control, and Support.
The reality of what we’ve been given is;

• Damage is king by a long shot, even though the Power vs. Condition situation is a frigging minefield.

• Support is mainly broken down into “supporting” damage. Understandable, in a game with no dedicated “healers,” but still a factor that needs accounted for.

• Control is neutered via mob “permaboons” such as Unshakeable and Defiant.

Control is the game’s biggest issue, IMHO. While I can agree that you don’t necessarily want boss-level critters to get CCd like a Necro in the middle of a Hambow Anonymous meeting, the designers have (like most MMOs I’ve played -hell, most RPGs, even!) gone too far in the camp of blocking CC effectiveness.
In addition, the way Condition stacks are managed in PvE greatly contributes to the Power/Condition divide, as a whole. It is thus grossly inefficient, to say it kindly, to build a “Damage” PvE character as anything but pure Power DPS, with enough Precision to ensure an acceptable crit rate.

Trinity in this game existed the moment they introduced hp and armour value differences between classes.

Why do you see so many warrior and guardians in WvW and dungeon groups, because they have the best survivability and ability to be the most tanky.

So they created tanks, and dps. Healing got kicked out the window. Instead everyone can rez.

A solid healer would make for much better gameplay and better group tactics. Doac easily had the best RvR and tactical gameplay.

Doesn’t the trinity need to exist to be brought back?

Support also means reflects, passive damage mitigation – not just supporting damage.
Without blocks and reflects almost all content would be much harder.

I agree defiance needs to go if we’ll ever have decent control. That and bring in creep skill bars so we can see what the mob is doing.

Ah yes, reflect. That turns Lupi into a shooting gallery…

Not because of the reflect mechanic directly tho, just that ANet designed his projectiles to ruin the players days if they were not dodged. Reflect them back en mass and it gets “interesting”…

mrauls.6519:

You obviously like GW2. What I don’t understand is why anyone would want trinity in this game. There are other games you could play for trinity. This game works perfectly fine w/o it. This game is not crippled in any way by not having it. The mechanics are more straight forwarded (do damage), and I love it.

You could play WoW, ESO online, or something else

You have to understand that some players would like a deeper game experience than pushing button 2.
Especially players who experienced GW1 where these days kids would fail epic.
Sure, call them old school or advice to play something else.
But ask your self how often can you remove 20% of the players until it effects you ?

TBH, the mere fact that people think the game could be re-engineered to support a traditional trinity shows me they don’t understand it very well.

Kurrilino.2706:

mrauls.6519:

You obviously like GW2. What I don’t understand is why anyone would want trinity in this game. There are other games you could play for trinity. This game works perfectly fine w/o it. This game is not crippled in any way by not having it. The mechanics are more straight forwarded (do damage), and I love it.

You could play WoW, ESO online, or something else

---

You have to understand that some players would like a deeper game experience than pushing button 2.
Especially players who experienced GW1 where these days kids would fail epic.
Sure, call them old school or advice to play something else.
But ask your self how often can you remove 20% of the players until it effects you ?

I like how you’re making up percentages. It’s fun is it not?

Kurrilino.2706:

Especially players who experienced GW1 where these days kids would fail epic.

I played GW1 in alpha (I was one of the thousand or so first testers), beta and release.
It was a few good ideas (really good ones, at that) set in a pretty sub-standard game with a terrible playerbase which made Diablo II look roses and unicorns. It was one of the few games I’m not the least bit sad about buying, playing briefly and never touching again when it released.

Here, let me shed a single tear for GW1, for teaching me as a developer that good ideas do not make for good mechanics.

“TBH, the mere fact that people think the game could be re-engineered to support a traditional trinity shows me they don’t understand it very well.”

Saying that only shows that you did not read the post, and that only puts you in bad light.
Since we started off with : To adjust the system in a small way behind the game, without hurting the players that like the current one, but also leaving an option to others who wish more…
Why is Gw2 community always like this :
WE have coffee, some also want tea and ask for it, but some guys say why are you taking away our coffee we like it, beside tea is crap, dont give them tea. When no one even mentioned they want coffee to be gone -_- . Sorry i have to say this, but there are to many kittens here, thinking you cant have both….and are so selfish and blind not to understand we are not wishing them any kind of harm or hurting there game play at all.
We just want stuff we also like.

Is whats missing a healer for the trinity to happen?

• Go make a Ele Aqua Benevolence
• Grab Guard for tanking
• Figure out the definitive answer on the Aggro system.
• Profit?

Probably should figure out the Aggro system then grab a guard and ele later.

oZii.2864:

Is whats missing a healer for the trinity to happen?

• Go make a Ele Aqua Benevolence
• Grab Guard for tanking
• Figure out the definitive answer on the Aggro system.
• Profit?

Probably should figure out the Aggro system then grab a guard and ele later.

how to tank in gw2:
guardian hammer
use your 5 skill
ask ANet really nicely to delete Defiance
done!

Serious, though, the game doesn’t need “heal/tank/dps”. It needs “support/control/damage”; the alternate trinity which was put forward as a model during the early game development. I’m not surprised it didn’t do as well as was expected, because a heal/tank/dps game is easy to make because EQ and WoW have sorted it all out, but it would be nice if dungeons were refined a bit more to actually conform to how small-scale PVE is supposed to operate.