Engineers and Condition Removal!

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: GoogleBrandon.5073

GoogleBrandon.5073

mesmers do not have to eat all the condis as the engis have to and you know it.

am fine with all the nerfs in the past for engi. I am also fine if you remove all the turrets including the heal turret.

God kitten , remove the healing turret. I do not like it but I have to take it because we have no option. We have to take this turret and even with this turret we suck against every person that clicked a key that apply condis on us.

I do not want faceroll classes all I want is a fair fight.

So you have never played Mesmer I figure?
Can you name me a build that is able to remove conditions like an idiot on Mesmer that isn’t PU?
Signet Build? Please…

Also, you said you wanted a fair fight, but not against conditions, but against Necromancers. Any, and I repeat, any other class doing a 1v1 against an Engineer is fine. Period. Maybe aside from Hambow in Conquest, but even if his stability and Berserker Stance runs out, he is yours to kill – something a Necomancer has to cope as well funny enough.

Maybe spam some less boons – trust me, you will cut off 50% of the Necromancer’s main damage…

Guild channel with PvP uploads
Lost? Confused? [TCS] – A guild for every state of body and mind

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: kolompi.1287

kolompi.1287

Sure, mesmers can just equip all their nice mantras which remove 2 condis from them, that’s 4 (6 if they take the GM trait). You already had to go into mantras there just to be able to remove some conditions and you also used a utility slot. Ah but they can then take Null Field to remove even more, that’s utility slot #2. Sure they can trait for condi removal on torch. Which is also rather abysmal in an actual fight. Not to mention it makes you unable to cap points since you are stealthed.

Of course you are fine with the nerfs to engi in the past. You have not really been hit that hard. And the idea that you have to take this turret and that turret? Exactly the same applies to mesmers having to take certain things.

So yes, give engineer better condi removal but then nerf your sustain, damage, condition capabilities 6 feet under ground.

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Ozzy Toxin.3074

Ozzy Toxin.3074

if they give engie more condi removal and ignore necros extreme cc problem then I will be kittened….

why is it fair that engie who is extremely heavy with cc and has some ok condi removal especially if they trait for it, gets even more condi cleanse but a class that an engie can easily counter if you have the right things and actually use some of the stuff you already have…. is still bottom tier needs a personal guardian and can be completely made redundant if anything with a hammer is around -.- you have 2 elixirs that can make a terrormancer pointless once you bait out the corrupt boon

sorry sir, this is not true. To say that a terrormancer is pointless if you take 2 elixirs is not even funny. It is just a lie

I did say if you bait out its corrupt boon… fear is countered by stability if you don’t run into spectral wall its a waste and if you dodge when a necro goes into ds then more then likely they will miss when they try fear you. (reason I do a lifeblast and then fear lolz =p) you can also bait out their spite sig then use elixir b? making it a waste of time =\. just saying I have done it and had the same done to me its not impossible.

just like I can beat a stance toting hammer spamming warrior who thinks they are l33T against a necro in a 1v1 by just running away and letting them have the point then killing them lolz…. its a bit harder when they have a friend tho =C then its bye bye necro

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Lupanic.6502

Lupanic.6502

Sure, mesmers can just equip all their nice mantras which remove 2 condis from them, that’s 4 (6 if they take the GM trait). You already had to go into mantras there just to be able to remove some conditions and you also used a utility slot. Ah but they can then take Null Field to remove even more, that’s utility slot #2. Sure they can trait for condi removal on torch. Which is also rather abysmal in an actual fight. Not to mention it makes you unable to cap points since you are stealthed.

Of course you are fine with the nerfs to engi in the past. You have not really been hit that hard. And the idea that you have to take this turret and that turret? Exactly the same applies to mesmers having to take certain things.

So yes, give engineer better condi removal but then nerf your sustain, damage, condition capabilities 6 feet under ground.

Go and open a thread Mesmer needs help. All I say and many other engis want is better condi removal.

And we have been hit hard in the past with see elixir s and r and the vigor nerf. We lost mich sustain

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: GoogleBrandon.5073

GoogleBrandon.5073

Go and open a thread Mesmer needs help. All I say and many other engis want is better condi removal.

And we have been hit hard in the past with see elixir s and r and the vigor nerf. We lost mich sustain

You are mistaken sir, this thread was posted in Profession Balance and not the Engineer thread – the comparrison with Mesmer was due to the fact that this means balancing all classes, complain about the weakness of one class while another suffers from the same and you are due to get replies like this…

And honestly, I think all of you only wanted to hear everybody saying “Oh God yes, give Engineers more condition removal because their sustain is sooooo bad” and got aggitated that this is not the case.

People are against it for a reason, and I honestly wonder why…

Guild channel with PvP uploads
Lost? Confused? [TCS] – A guild for every state of body and mind

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Lupanic.6502

Lupanic.6502

mesmers do not have to eat all the condis as the engis have to and you know it.

am fine with all the nerfs in the past for engi. I am also fine if you remove all the turrets including the heal turret.

God kitten , remove the healing turret. I do not like it but I have to take it because we have no option. We have to take this turret and even with this turret we suck against every person that clicked a key that apply condis on us.

I do not want faceroll classes all I want is a fair fight.

So you have never played Mesmer I figure?
Can you name me a build that is able to remove conditions like an idiot on Mesmer that isn’t PU?
Signet Build? Please…

Also, you said you wanted a fair fight, but not against conditions, but against Necromancers. Any, and I repeat, any other class doing a 1v1 against an Engineer is fine. Period. Maybe aside from Hambow in Conquest, but even if his stability and Berserker Stance runs out, he is yours to kill – something a Necomancer has to cope as well funny enough.

Maybe spam some less boons – trust me, you will cut off 50% of the Necromancer’s main damage…

I can’t spamm less boons. Because speed+vigor+ might on weapon change and regen on heal. That it all.

And it is not only necro same with condi warrior, burning guard, wild Bill thief and same Mesmer. If condi engi vs condi engi it is more or less: proc first = win

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Lupanic.6502

Lupanic.6502

Go and open a thread Mesmer needs help. All I say and many other engis want is better condi removal.

And we have been hit hard in the past with see elixir s and r and the vigor nerf. We lost mich sustain

You are mistaken sir, this thread was posted in Profession Balance and not the Engineer thread – the comparrison with Mesmer was due to the fact that this means balancing all classes, complain about the weakness of one class while another suffers from the same and you are due to get replies like this…

And honestly, I think all of you only wanted to hear everybody saying “Oh God yes, give Engineers more condition removal because their sustain is sooooo bad” and got aggitated that this is not the case.

People are against it for a reason, and I honestly wonder why…

All people agree that PU Mesmer is one of the strongest builds even if it has very limited condi removal.

If you look at the turret engi QQ threads you see 1 answer: go condi the engi is not able to counter this.

I wonder why….

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: kolompi.1287

kolompi.1287

The answer to that question is: engi can counter everything else very well. So they are forced to use conditions or lose matches.

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Aberrant.6749

Aberrant.6749

I don’t think anyone here is asking for eng to be strong vs conds (which is what it sounds like some people are presuming)… just not quite as weak vs them as they are now.

Since people want to speak of mes… mes had more cond removal options added in not that long ago… and are still weak vs. conds.

Eng recently had their resistance vs. conds nerfed with the AR nerf (which was deserved). It’s logical that it would be made up for a bit somewhere else.

Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: ArrDee.2573

ArrDee.2573

Hello frands! Vee Wee here retired #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Thanks for all the replies my frands! It makes me happy to see a healthy discussion about balance! It shows you care about the game! I will try to address some of your issues that you brought up!

Healing Turret!
Yes I think it’s one of the best heals in the game! But with the standard Engi build, it’s usually our only form of condition removal! Our only form of condition removal is tied to our heal! Our heal is our only form of condition removal! Do we cure conditions and be susceptible to everything! Or do we not heal and die to conditions! For the third, and hopefully last, time don’t you frands understand how terrible that is! To have your only form of condition removal tied to your heal geez louise what a mess! Why don’t you give it a try!

Mesmers!
Yes basically all Mesmers except Countless are weak to conditions! Nobody is disputing that! However Mesmers usually run Null Field! It removes more conditions than Healing Turret and isn’t tied to their heal skill! Furthermore Mesmers have insane mobility! Blinks are golly gee whiz insane because you can blink through walls, blink up ledges, blink through ledges, blink up 8 stories, blink up 8 stories through a wall and up a ledge, etc etc! If a Mesmer gets focused, he can blink away! He can go invis! He can become invuln! He can portal out! The mobility and defensive options are just holy smokes wacky tobacky! Mesmers are weak to conditions yes! But they can still beat them! Engineers on the other hand…!

Necromancers!
To the guy who said Engineers can easily counter Terrormancers! What game are you playing! Elixir Engineer! Crazy! This is not 2012! Elixir Engineers are long gone and with good reason! They’re bad! Terrormancers are a 100% hard counter to Engineers! Like I said before, I believe it’s the hardest counter in the game! If you are a Terrormancer and are losing to an Engineer, well I don’t want to be mean but there are some l2p issues going on here!

More Condi Removal!
You guys have been saying that if Engineers get more condition removal, then other things should be nerfed! Did you not read my suggestions! Do you guys even play Engineer! Or even know Engineer traits and abilities! Why would anyone post in this thread if they don’t know the Engineer class! Cray-ay-ayzee! Putting points into the Inventions tree for condition removal will nerf either our protection uptime, or our sustain, or vigor uptime! Engineers do not have 16 trait points believe it or not! Using offhand pistol instead of shield is a huge defensive nerf! Using Gadgets is a huge nerf! Taking 409 means not taking Backpack Regen! Or Protection Injection! And forced to use at least 1 Elixir! Nerfed! Please at least make an attempt to learn the class before you try to put down something you obviously do not understand!

If I can choose to have a weaker overall build and not be a Necromancer’s toilet, I’ll take that option!

Thanks for reading! Wahoo! Bye frands!

#1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!
#1 Frandliest person NA!
http://www.twitch.tv/Livskis <-It’s back!

(edited by ArrDee.2573)

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: JonSnow.5610

JonSnow.5610

Automated Response makes player and up to 5 players within a 100000 radius permanently immune to conditions! In fact when players are afflicted with a condition, the afflict-er and anyone within a 100000 radius dies. Engineer’s team receives 499 points if playing tPvP. I really like this one too but it seems a little op.

That doesn’t seem OP, just balanced.

I agree with everything said above by #1 Engi NA Vee Wee.

Many that live deserve death, and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them?
Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise can not see all ends

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: ArrDee.2573

ArrDee.2573

Hello frands! Vee Wee here retired #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

This discussion tapered off pretty quickly my frands! I still think Engineers need more condition removal! Let’s hear what the devs think about this situation! Let’s also here some community input! Wahoo!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

#1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!
#1 Frandliest person NA!
http://www.twitch.tv/Livskis <-It’s back!

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Tim.6450

Tim.6450

I don’t think that engineers need more removal, I just think that the current personal removal removal is just low or not suited to the engineer and needs some adjusting.

- Elixir C: With it’s short cast time and short cooldown it becomes, one of the most powerfull full cleanses in the game. The biggest problem I feel with this skill is that engineer have little room for their utilities due to kits (I think most builds have two kits and you need a stun breaker as well).

- Super elixir: nice skill in itself but low personal cleansing capabilities. Giving it more removal would make the skill too strong for it’s current capabilities and cooldown.

- Toss Elixir R: just too long too be ever usefull.

- Toss elixir C: 1 condition on 30 second cooldown, is just too little.

- Cleansing Formula 409: It has the potential to be strong but it is tied to utility and engineers need kits to function properly.

- Cleansing burst: 2 conditions on 15 second basis is actually good but since blasting your own turret is far more optimal it becomes 20 seconds and lost thus 75% of their cleansing power (6 conditions per minute instead of 8 conditions per minute).

- Transmute: This is not a cleanse just a removal of an applied condition and is just weak.

- Drop antidote: one condition on a 15 second cooldown: weak.

Here is what I think could improve condition removal:

- Transmute: make it convert complete stack, maybe needs cooldown adjustment max 5 seconds.

- drop antidote: I think something special can be done with this skill for 3 seconds you are immune to the removed condition. Either that or just make the cleanse to 3~4 and adjust cooldown to the new cleanse.

- cleansing formula 409: I think replacing this one with a better condition removal would be for the best, since the only way it can be used is to make it balanced around 1 or 2 elixirs but than it will be too strong if a person takes more elixirs.

- Elixir C & toss elixir C: I feel conflicted about this one (I have a strong belief in class diversity and identity but it can be necessairy). Remove all boon generation from elixir C but make it a stun breaker (not instant though so add a second of stability). This will help with the low options for utility skills and with nercomancers since necromancers would just corrupt those boons. Toss elixir C would be remove 2 conditions but may need cooldown adjustments.

I did not touch the other skills since as skills they are fine and adding extra removal would weaken the other aspects of the skills. I also do not say that all these ideas should be implemented, just some of them .

EverythingOP

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Pride.1734

Pride.1734

Bump for truth. Some active condi removal that is alctualy a worthy option is just lacking atm.

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

Stop talking about mesmer. We talk about Engineers and engineers need better condi removal.

Shure why not?

What Engis trade of for condition removal, the waterfields, Elixir S, Engi fields become light fields, nades range and damage?

Engi got alot of excellent stuff low capability of removing condis were the trade for all good things they have.

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

(edited by Aeolus.3615)

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: unlucky.9285

unlucky.9285

Engis have the best variety of builds in the game outside of warriors. Not to mention transmute, healing turret, super elixir, and elixir C. Also healing turret is one of the shortest CD heals in the game and it’s a free 2 condi clear on a 1/4 second cast time. Not too shabby. Mesmers would kill to have engineer level of condi clear… Just sayin.

How many hours do you have on your engie? What build do you use that you feel handles conditions well?

I’m not saying that engis handle conditions well… But saying that engineers have the worst condition removal in this game is LOLOL… +

What profession is worse it it’s productive overall build and why?

one of the inherent problems of the profession, is that it is balanced around a minimum of at least one kit filling a utility slot. A slot other professions can arm a dedicated condition removal, mobility skill, or sun breaker, the is otherwise not avaliable to the engineer.

And yet most mesmers take null field only which even if the mesmer stands in for the duration is less condi removal than using healing turret off cd… Just saying

Are you kidding me?? Mesmers have two to three times the options for condition removal then what an engi has. I rarely have problems with condition removal on my Mesmer if I spec for it.

Mesmer torch can remove 2 conditions pretty much every 20-25 seconds. Mending Purity can remove like 6 conditions every 15 seconds if you have the Mantra heal and mantra can be casted 3 times. If using Ether Feast 2 conditions every 20 seconds is pretty decent. The condition removal mantra removes 4 conditions every 20 seconds. Arcane Thievery removes or xfers 3 conditions every 45 seconds. Null field pulses removal every 45 seconds or so for 5 seconds. Phantasmal disenchanter. All that and you can trait the cooldown for mantras, spec into more mantra usage.

Let’s see what an Engi has. A crappy transmute every 15 seconds. The condi clear from the healing is decent. Elixir C has like a 45 second cooldown. Throwing it removes/xfers one condition.

I don’t know how you can dispute the fact that a Mesmer has way more options for condi clear than an Engi

LOL and how many PU mesmers are used in high end teams? How many mesmers represented in the last TOL used any condi clear at all… OYEAH none. You know why because mesmer is taken for portal, illusion of life and that’s it… Most high end mesmers run GS staff… no condi clear there. And if you are not runnign shatters remove a boon as a mesmer then you are bad.

Read my post again. I never said anything about PU Mesmers. I dont give a sh** about what people run in ToL and people act like ToL should be taken as the holy grail of what people should run. Just because people in ToL don’t run condition clear that is there fault nobody elses. sPvP and ToL is a stupid gamemode that pretends to be like League of Legends LCS in which professional teams go at it when indeed there are clearly so many imbalances and it all revolves around throwing all your skills into a small circle.

There is also WvW and PvE those are also game modes. The fact is Mesmers have way more options then Engineers do in terms of condition removal. Do I need to number them for you so you can visually see that Mesmers have 2-3x the options then Engineers do? Just because people choose not to use them, doesn’t mean they are non-existent.

THINK PLZ!!!!

im fine with you getting more condi removal as long as it forces you to chose it in your traits over something decent like vigour or swiftness or burning then that’s fine :p, even better put it in the areas with weapon buffs its ok because you will have them then just like the Mesmer right?

oh and if they give you guys easy condi removal traits/utilities they better give necro easy access to stability too because fair is fair

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Aberrant.6749

Aberrant.6749

Engis have the best variety of builds in the game outside of warriors. Not to mention transmute, healing turret, super elixir, and elixir C. Also healing turret is one of the shortest CD heals in the game and it’s a free 2 condi clear on a 1/4 second cast time. Not too shabby. Mesmers would kill to have engineer level of condi clear… Just sayin.

How many hours do you have on your engie? What build do you use that you feel handles conditions well?

I’m not saying that engis handle conditions well… But saying that engineers have the worst condition removal in this game is LOLOL… +

What profession is worse it it’s productive overall build and why?

one of the inherent problems of the profession, is that it is balanced around a minimum of at least one kit filling a utility slot. A slot other professions can arm a dedicated condition removal, mobility skill, or sun breaker, the is otherwise not avaliable to the engineer.

And yet most mesmers take null field only which even if the mesmer stands in for the duration is less condi removal than using healing turret off cd… Just saying

Are you kidding me?? Mesmers have two to three times the options for condition removal then what an engi has. I rarely have problems with condition removal on my Mesmer if I spec for it.

Mesmer torch can remove 2 conditions pretty much every 20-25 seconds. Mending Purity can remove like 6 conditions every 15 seconds if you have the Mantra heal and mantra can be casted 3 times. If using Ether Feast 2 conditions every 20 seconds is pretty decent. The condition removal mantra removes 4 conditions every 20 seconds. Arcane Thievery removes or xfers 3 conditions every 45 seconds. Null field pulses removal every 45 seconds or so for 5 seconds. Phantasmal disenchanter. All that and you can trait the cooldown for mantras, spec into more mantra usage.

Let’s see what an Engi has. A crappy transmute every 15 seconds. The condi clear from the healing is decent. Elixir C has like a 45 second cooldown. Throwing it removes/xfers one condition.

I don’t know how you can dispute the fact that a Mesmer has way more options for condi clear than an Engi

LOL and how many PU mesmers are used in high end teams? How many mesmers represented in the last TOL used any condi clear at all… OYEAH none. You know why because mesmer is taken for portal, illusion of life and that’s it… Most high end mesmers run GS staff… no condi clear there. And if you are not runnign shatters remove a boon as a mesmer then you are bad.

Read my post again. I never said anything about PU Mesmers. I dont give a sh** about what people run in ToL and people act like ToL should be taken as the holy grail of what people should run. Just because people in ToL don’t run condition clear that is there fault nobody elses. sPvP and ToL is a stupid gamemode that pretends to be like League of Legends LCS in which professional teams go at it when indeed there are clearly so many imbalances and it all revolves around throwing all your skills into a small circle.

There is also WvW and PvE those are also game modes. The fact is Mesmers have way more options then Engineers do in terms of condition removal. Do I need to number them for you so you can visually see that Mesmers have 2-3x the options then Engineers do? Just because people choose not to use them, doesn’t mean they are non-existent.

THINK PLZ!!!!

im fine with you getting more condi removal as long as it forces you to chose it in your traits over something decent like vigour or swiftness or burning then that’s fine :p, even better put it in the areas with weapon buffs its ok because you will have them then just like the Mesmer right?

oh and if they give you guys easy condi removal traits/utilities they better give necro easy access to stability too because fair is fair

Adding in a little more cond removal on eng wouldn’t make them strong vs conds… just not quite as weak Vs. them.

That doesn’t mean that necro should have stability and great cond removal. I don’t understand where people are getting that idea from but it’s silly.

You do know that eng has poor stability/stunbreak options as well right?

Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Cogbyrn.7283

Cogbyrn.7283

Hello frands! Vee Wee here retired #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

This discussion tapered off pretty quickly my frands! I still think Engineers need more condition removal! Let’s hear what the devs think about this situation! Let’s also here some community input! Wahoo!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Bhawb already pointed out my input:

It really just sounds like you don’t want anything in the game to punish you for spamming out as many conditions as fast and hard as possible. I once asked a guildie who was complaining about Necros on his Engi what else he had problems fighting.

He said nothing.

I don’t like hard counters, but if you specifically build yourself in a way that’s vulnerable to a particular class’s mechanics, then that’s your fault. I make myself more vulnerable to Thieves out in WvW with my weapon choices, but I’ve worked on adapting to that through playstyle/timings. Also, I think far too many people automatically give up with regard to certain match-ups because they hear someone else say the game is rock/paper/scissors, and it excuses them from taking responsibility for losing. Yes, builds play a large role in the game, but sometimes even a single utility swap can mean the difference between winning and losing a fight.

I know you can’t swap utilities in a tPvP match, but that’s a team-oriented fight anyway, and you should be coordinating with your team to both build and rotate properly to achieve success.

Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Aberrant.6749

Aberrant.6749

Hello frands! Vee Wee here retired #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

This discussion tapered off pretty quickly my frands! I still think Engineers need more condition removal! Let’s hear what the devs think about this situation! Let’s also here some community input! Wahoo!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Bhawb already pointed out my input:

It really just sounds like you don’t want anything in the game to punish you for spamming out as many conditions as fast and hard as possible. I once asked a guildie who was complaining about Necros on his Engi what else he had problems fighting.

He said nothing.

I don’t like hard counters, but if you specifically build yourself in a way that’s vulnerable to a particular class’s mechanics, then that’s your fault. I make myself more vulnerable to Thieves out in WvW with my weapon choices, but I’ve worked on adapting to that through playstyle/timings. Also, I think far too many people automatically give up with regard to certain match-ups because they hear someone else say the game is rock/paper/scissors, and it excuses them from taking responsibility for losing. Yes, builds play a large role in the game, but sometimes even a single utility swap can mean the difference between winning and losing a fight.

I know you can’t swap utilities in a tPvP match, but that’s a team-oriented fight anyway, and you should be coordinating with your team to both build and rotate properly to achieve success.

Other cond builds have advantages over eng due to the lack of cleansing and lack of good stability/stunbreak options.

WvW isn’t balanced regardless, so just meh.

Gw2=buildwars 2 in far too many cases. Yes you can make up for most of the counters, but the amount of skill required is higher. Eng. Vs. Necro is the hardest matchup I can think of. It’s too severe. I would far rather fight an eng on my thief or (which is thief’s strong counter) etc.

Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: ukuni.8745

ukuni.8745

engineers are just as week to cc as they are to conditions, difference is we have good traits/utilities to give us the ability to counter heavy cc, things like vigor/blinds/blocks so aslong as we keep on our game we can effectively counter cc threw playing properly conditions however our only way to run a viable build and counter conditions is to hope our opposition is not conditions or slightly brain dead which isn’t really an acceptable approach I wouldn’t mind seeing transmute get a smaller cd we can’t choose which conditions get removed, It wouldn’t make us any less susceptible to Condi burst but with less conditions before and after the burst would make it alot easier to recover I would also say swapping it with the gm minor trait so we have to invest a bit heavier to get it, the only issue would be from power classes that like to use there 1 immob to line up a burst combo they could just use a Condi to proc it but a lot of people like to complain before they think, but I think in the current state of the game it shouldn’t be a problem since everything proc conditions randomly these days

Still Winning And Grinning (Swag)
Ukune – Engineer of Maguuma
Check me out on YouTube

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Inscrutable.8347

Inscrutable.8347

Engineers have access to just as much, if not more, blocking than a Guardian does if you build for it. I don’t think people really understand how strong an Engineer can be in that way with mitigating damage and being able to turn it into pressure. Guardian Rune turns blocks into burning, which you already get a ton of with Incendiary Powder.

Consider: A Guardian gets 20s of Aegis every 40s when they have Virtue of Courage up. Armor Mods on Engineer gets 5s of Aegis every 15s. That is an insane amount of blocking that you don’t have to anything to activate. Add that to Shield and Tool Kit, vigor on kit swap, and the mobility that comes with Speedy Kits and you’ve got speed, pressure, and mitigation all in one package.

Example build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqelUUpErlcx+KseNCbBN6x0mtIqN+5DEgkC-TJhAwAW3fgcZgNnAAAPAAA

So when you consider how much blocking you can have, that makes a fight with a Necromancer, or anyone for that matter, a much different story than what the more common builds suffer with their weaknesses in specific 1v1s or 2v2s.

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: dancingmonkey.4902

dancingmonkey.4902

Engineers have access to just as much, if not more, blocking than a Guardian does if you build for it. I don’t think people really understand how strong an Engineer can be in that way with mitigating damage and being able to turn it into pressure. Guardian Rune turns blocks into burning, which you already get a ton of with Incendiary Powder.

Consider: A Guardian gets 20s of Aegis every 40s when they have Virtue of Courage up. Armor Mods on Engineer gets 5s of Aegis every 15s. That is an insane amount of blocking that you don’t have to anything to activate. Add that to Shield and Tool Kit, vigor on kit swap, and the mobility that comes with Speedy Kits and you’ve got speed, pressure, and mitigation all in one package.

Example build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqelUUpErlcx+KseNCbBN6x0mtIqN+5DEgkC-TJhAwAW3fgcZgNnAAAPAAA

So when you consider how much blocking you can have, that makes a fight with a Necromancer, or anyone for that matter, a much different story than what the more common builds suffer with their weaknesses in specific 1v1s or 2v2s.

So how many hours have you spent playing that build?

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Inscrutable.8347

Inscrutable.8347

Enough to know that I can easily beat you 1v1 with it and handle Necromancers on side nodes.

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Kontrolle.3514

Kontrolle.3514

Everything was better with the good ol kit-refinement.
That patchday cured me from engineer fanboyism. Sad story.

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: ukuni.8745

ukuni.8745

Enough to know that I can easily beat you 1v1 with it and handle Necromancers on side nodes.

doit man dont even be weak about it

Still Winning And Grinning (Swag)
Ukune – Engineer of Maguuma
Check me out on YouTube

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: MidoriMarch.8067

MidoriMarch.8067

Engi is already too good no need extra condi clear

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: dancingmonkey.4902

dancingmonkey.4902

Enough to know that I can easily beat you 1v1 with it and handle Necromancers on side nodes.

In my experience, when people avoid a direct and specific question entirely, then make an ego flexing retort, they are generally compensating for a lacking elsewhere.

So how many hours was it you had in the build you linked? I mean it is a reasonable question considering your using it as the platform for your stance against engineers having more diversity in their condition removal options.

Engi is already too good no need extra condi clear

Based on what? The only true condition cleanse we have is Elixir C. It is fairly average when compared to other profession, which is fair. Yet the other professions are not balanced around giving up a utility slot to carry a kit. That is one slot that other professions can have more cleanse.

(edited by dancingmonkey.4902)

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Oxstar.7643

Oxstar.7643

Evasion. Speed. Two traits, infused precision and invigorating speed and a good crit ensures you always have swiftness and vigor in a fight. It’s good for dodging EVERYTHING… Including attacks that cause conditions.

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: dancingmonkey.4902

dancingmonkey.4902

Evasion. Speed. Two traits, infused precision and invigorating speed and a good crit ensures you always have swiftness and vigor in a fight. It’s good for dodging EVERYTHING… Including attacks that cause conditions.

That list doesn’t seem vary impressive when you consider the list of professions with more speed, and easier access to evasion.

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Oxstar.7643

Oxstar.7643

Evasion. Speed. Two traits, infused precision and invigorating speed and a good crit ensures you always have swiftness and vigor in a fight. It’s good for dodging EVERYTHING… Including attacks that cause conditions.

That list doesn’t seem vary impressive when you consider the list of professions with more speed, and easier access to evasion.

TWO TRAITS. What other class can achieve this with two traits? To put you into perspective, I have a smoke screen , a bouncing blind shot, two aoe slow fields, a leap, good healing, two knockbacks, a ranged double interrupt, two blocks, a lot of speed and dodge, and, by my own experiences, enough condition removals to get by. Something that people constantly overlook is that engineers are very good at maintaining gaps and otherwise foiling melee, so they are A-okay there – as for ranged, no one stops you from ducking behind objects until your health is up again. But hey, these are my experiences. Idk what you’ve been through, but playing all modes except tpvp on and off since headstart, I’ve never felt conditions is the issue.

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Lucentfir.7430

Lucentfir.7430

Gee lets make engineers more annoying and frustrating to catch =.= and actually combat. Engis have access to condi removal through elixirs. Healing turret is pretty good (15-20s CD removing 2 conditions). Truth is if you want more condition removal you got to give up something else for it.

Reth Grimrazor – Charr Guardian – [GWB]Grim Warband – Tarnished Coast
Redgen Furyblaze – Charr Guardian – [SHD]Shade Warband – Tarnished Coast
Lerious Warhowl – Charr Warrior – [SHD] Shade Warband – Tarnished Coast

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Oxstar.7643

Oxstar.7643

Gee lets make engineers more annoying and frustrating to catch =.= and actually combat. Engis have access to condi removal through elixirs. Healing turret is pretty good (15-20s CD removing 2 conditions). Truth is if you want more condition removal you got to give up something else for it.

This.

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: ukuni.8745

ukuni.8745

Ive had a couple good ideas that i don’t think would be game breaking.

1st a new inventions GM trait, dodge rolls cure bleeds and vulnerability, since its in the inventions tree we have to sacrifice either the damage advantage from explosives/firearms trait lines or sacrifice the survive ability advantages from the alchemy line, we could get epically tanky and deal no damage or if we toke the damage route with this trait be less susceptible to conditions while losing some of our traits that make us more effective in other situations.

2nd cleaning formula works with the skills in elixir gun that are classified as elixirs, Acid bomb would only effect the initial area removing only 1 condition but prioritizing the engineer first and Super elixir would function like acid bomb, Elixir F isnt classified as an elixir skill and it has a rather short cd when traited so we can leave it that way to balance it out in optimal conditions it would double our potential condition removal if our build was your typical tpvp build, would it be overpowered… i dont think so, considering what we give up for it i think it would be okay.

3rd auto defense bomb dispenser, change it to bombs have a 20% chance to remove 1 condition on a 10 second cd, now we cant use grenadier but we get improved condition removal, and honestly any build that uses that trait as it is now can be better by taking other options.

Still Winning And Grinning (Swag)
Ukune – Engineer of Maguuma
Check me out on YouTube

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Aberrant.6749

Aberrant.6749

Gee lets make engineers more annoying and frustrating to catch =.= and actually combat. Engis have access to condi removal through elixirs. Healing turret is pretty good (15-20s CD removing 2 conditions). Truth is if you want more condition removal you got to give up something else for it.

This.

Eng’s resistance to conds was nerfed when AR was nerfed (deservingly so with that specific trait, but that made eng’s overall weakness to conds even weaker). No compensation was given. Just simply asking for something to be done to balance it out a bit =/= should have to give up something more. If they added in something major, then yes, something should give… but I haven’t seen or heard of anything like that being proposed.

Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa

(edited by Aberrant.6749)

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Bombsaway.7198

Bombsaway.7198

I agree frand.

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: insanemaniac.2456

insanemaniac.2456

transmute + generosity + heal turret + rifle 4 + rocket boots is more than enough condi cleanse :P

JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Lupanic.6502

Lupanic.6502

transmute + generosity + heal turret + rifle 4 + rocket boots is more than enough condi cleanse :P

With rifle + rocket boots your build sucks and you still have no answer to terrormencer

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: insanemaniac.2456

insanemaniac.2456

transmute + generosity + heal turret + rifle 4 + rocket boots is more than enough condi cleanse :P

With rifle + rocket boots your build sucks and you still have no answer to terrormencer

its fine in wvw

JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: CntrlAltDefeat.1465

CntrlAltDefeat.1465

Engis have the best variety of builds in the game outside of warriors. Not to mention transmute, healing turret, super elixir, and elixir C. Also healing turret is one of the shortest CD heals in the game and it’s a free 2 condi clear on a 1/4 second cast time. Not too shabby. Mesmers would kill to have engineer level of condi clear… Just sayin.

Exactly. It’s not until you have played all professions that you realise some bring a lot more to the table than others.

Engi;
Stealth
Pulls
Blocks
reflects
3rd party AI damage
shortest healing cooldown
Most weapons skills
universal immunity
pretty much all conditions
average condi clear
tremendous boon stacking

Necro has;
12% of the above.

Engineer is in no position to complain about what they can bring to the table.

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Lupanic.6502

Lupanic.6502

transmute + generosity + heal turret + rifle 4 + rocket boots is more than enough condi cleanse :P

With rifle + rocket boots your build sucks and you still have no answer to terrormencer

its fine in wvw

ok. Could we create a sPvP condi clear only? If you are fine in wvw thats nice. In sPvP all condi classes kitten engineers.

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: lunyboy.8672

lunyboy.8672

Engis have the best variety of builds in the game outside of warriors. Not to mention transmute, healing turret, super elixir, and elixir C. Also healing turret is one of the shortest CD heals in the game and it’s a free 2 condi clear on a 1/4 second cast time. Not too shabby. Mesmers would kill to have engineer level of condi clear… Just sayin.

Exactly. It’s not until you have played all professions that you realise some bring a lot more to the table than others.

Engi;
Stealth
Pulls
Blocks
reflects
3rd party AI damage
shortest healing cooldown
Most weapons skills
universal immunity
pretty much all conditions
average condi clear
tremendous boon stacking

Necro has;
12% of the above.

Engineer is in no position to complain about what they can bring to the table.

Most engineers have less than half of that list on their build, the legendary 6/6/6/6/6 build with 8 utility slots.

Miss Fisthammer – Engineer | Urgard Fistorsen – Guardian
Physti – Elementalist | Fistful of Blades – Thief
[WHIP] Quaggan Slavers – HoD

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Aberrant.6749

Aberrant.6749

transmute + generosity + heal turret + rifle 4 + rocket boots is more than enough condi cleanse :P

With rifle + rocket boots your build sucks and you still have no answer to terrormencer

its fine in wvw

Aka it’s fine when you just need to run away to friends to outnumber Vs. WvW-ers (who tend to be far less skilled players)… unfortunately that doesn’t work so well in actual PvP.

Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Chicago Jack.5647

Chicago Jack.5647

Veewee, sometimes i think you have a macro for your posts (or have it clipboarded constantly). You can’t POSSIBLY be typing that every. single. time.

There is no reason to be so conservative about it. Necromancer vs Engie is THE hardest counter in the game – bar none. The fundamental reason for this is because engies lack a good condi nuke clear. They have good sustain clearing, but terrible nuke clearing – the worst in the game actually. This gets compounded by the fact that necro conditions last so kitten long.

Still though, I used to be the same way about engies – conditions are ridiculous. But then I realized that engies can turn to their teammates (knowing the engie is weak to condi nukes) to help if the engie gets tunnelvisioned by their nemesis. So I think the game is better this way. It sucks for an out-of-place engie, or an incompetent team who lacks the ability to pay attention, but c’est la vie I guess.

The underlying message I guess is that a team needs to tailor to what they expect their opponent is going to do and respond accordingly. Sometimes that requires more teamwork than usual.

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: BurrTheKing.8571

BurrTheKing.8571

As someone who now plays more Engi than War now let me pose this question.

If Engi did not have this weakness to nuke conditions what WOULD they be weak against? The class is absurdly good at dishing out condis while still maintaining a high amount of swiftness and having access to multiple blocks and a invul/stealth. I would say that when it comes to sustained conditions they are superior to Necro. That being said Necro is a class that generally loves condis being on them.

There are still Engi builds that can beat Necros. Turrets w/ a rifle can ping pong them around so much that they never even get to USE their condis. I’m going to start messing around with Elixirs more because those ARE good condi cleanse. Everyone just abandoned HGH when they nerfed nades power scaling but it’s still a solid enough build. You could probably go Celestial as well.

Just an angry old man…

Old Man Burr (War), Bad Hat Ben (Engi), Manly Manny Manson (Guard)

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: dancingmonkey.4902

dancingmonkey.4902

If Engi did not have this weakness to nuke conditions what WOULD they be weak against?

Based on the developers stated balancing philosophy, I would say being “pigeoned into specific builds”.

As well, it is one thing to be weak to conditions, it is another thing to be extremely weak to them.

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Lupanic.6502

Lupanic.6502

As someone who now plays more Engi than War now let me pose this question.

If Engi did not have this weakness to nuke conditions what WOULD they be weak against? The class is absurdly good at dishing out condis while still maintaining a high amount of swiftness and having access to multiple blocks and a invul/stealth. I would say that when it comes to sustained conditions they are superior to Necro. That being said Necro is a class that generally loves condis being on them.

There are still Engi builds that can beat Necros. Turrets w/ a rifle can ping pong them around so much that they never even get to USE their condis. I’m going to start messing around with Elixirs more because those ARE good condi cleanse. Everyone just abandoned HGH when they nerfed nades power scaling but it’s still a solid enough build. You could probably go Celestial as well.

This is the reason why Engis are playing turret builds. Turret builds are not fun because of the AI. But we have to play it because we are the toilet of all necros and against some eles we also can’t win.

elixirs are nice but they do not really help against a terrormancer because you have only 1 stunbreaker and die in fear. HGH is dead in sPvP because you die to every thief and without HGH you die to every condi necro.

And you ask to what an engi is weak if not to condis. It is not like engis have free wins against other classes. Even a thief is able to kill the engi very often and engi vs thief is our best setup.

condi engi in sPvP is like
7:3 vs thief
7:3 vs ranger
5:5 vs mesmer (hard to tell, because the PU and shatter mesmer are so different. Some condi mesmer are able to eat our souls)
5:5 vs damage guard ( a good bunker guard is not killable in 1vs1 in normal amount of time)
3:7 vs Hambow
3:7 vs ele
0:10 vs condi necro

on equal skill and to fight for a point

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: GoogleBrandon.5073

GoogleBrandon.5073

As someone who now plays more Engi than War now let me pose this question.

If Engi did not have this weakness to nuke conditions what WOULD they be weak against? The class is absurdly good at dishing out condis while still maintaining a high amount of swiftness and having access to multiple blocks and a invul/stealth. I would say that when it comes to sustained conditions they are superior to Necro. That being said Necro is a class that generally loves condis being on them.

There are still Engi builds that can beat Necros. Turrets w/ a rifle can ping pong them around so much that they never even get to USE their condis. I’m going to start messing around with Elixirs more because those ARE good condi cleanse. Everyone just abandoned HGH when they nerfed nades power scaling but it’s still a solid enough build. You could probably go Celestial as well.

This is the reason why Engis are playing turret builds. Turret builds are not fun because of the AI. But we have to play it because we are the toilet of all necros and against some eles we also can’t win.

Thread over… Engis are forced to run turrets…

Also, against eles? Man, with the amount of immob and chill you can put out you should be able to mess up the eles rotations really good…

Err, whatever… I was not planning on responding to this topic at all and even now I couldn’t stop myself…
I do question you about this though, why is it that | Napzor | is running, and peforming incredibly well with a celestial set-up without turrets, as well as Texbi, running the standard grenadier build? Why are they not running turrets like you said? Or did you mean that you were forced to run turrets because otherwise you would not win? There is a difference you see…

Guild channel with PvP uploads
Lost? Confused? [TCS] – A guild for every state of body and mind

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Lupanic.6502

Lupanic.6502

As someone who now plays more Engi than War now let me pose this question.

If Engi did not have this weakness to nuke conditions what WOULD they be weak against? The class is absurdly good at dishing out condis while still maintaining a high amount of swiftness and having access to multiple blocks and a invul/stealth. I would say that when it comes to sustained conditions they are superior to Necro. That being said Necro is a class that generally loves condis being on them.

There are still Engi builds that can beat Necros. Turrets w/ a rifle can ping pong them around so much that they never even get to USE their condis. I’m going to start messing around with Elixirs more because those ARE good condi cleanse. Everyone just abandoned HGH when they nerfed nades power scaling but it’s still a solid enough build. You could probably go Celestial as well.

This is the reason why Engis are playing turret builds. Turret builds are not fun because of the AI. But we have to play it because we are the toilet of all necros and against some eles we also can’t win.

Thread over… Engis are forced to run turrets…

Also, against eles? Man, with the amount of immob and chill you can put out you should be able to mess up the eles rotations really good…

Err, whatever… I was not planning on responding to this topic at all and even now I couldn’t stop myself…
I do question you about this though, why is it that | Napzor | is running, and peforming incredibly well with a celestial set-up without turrets, as well as Texbi, running the standard grenadier build? Why are they not running turrets like you said? Or did you mean that you were forced to run turrets because otherwise you would not win? There is a difference you see…

Napzor and texbi are awesome engis and I bet all my gold that they will lose 8 of ten duels on far or close against a top terrormancer. Lets say to people like “teh prototype”.

And I talk about condi engis. If they go for power, maybe they have better chances. But with pistol in main hand 8of10 for the necro. I take every bet.

And against eles. The big amount of immob… .yes sir. 1 sec on impact from pistol #5 if you are running grenades/toolkit. That will crush the ele.

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: GoogleBrandon.5073

GoogleBrandon.5073

As someone who now plays more Engi than War now let me pose this question.

If Engi did not have this weakness to nuke conditions what WOULD they be weak against? The class is absurdly good at dishing out condis while still maintaining a high amount of swiftness and having access to multiple blocks and a invul/stealth. I would say that when it comes to sustained conditions they are superior to Necro. That being said Necro is a class that generally loves condis being on them.

There are still Engi builds that can beat Necros. Turrets w/ a rifle can ping pong them around so much that they never even get to USE their condis. I’m going to start messing around with Elixirs more because those ARE good condi cleanse. Everyone just abandoned HGH when they nerfed nades power scaling but it’s still a solid enough build. You could probably go Celestial as well.

This is the reason why Engis are playing turret builds. Turret builds are not fun because of the AI. But we have to play it because we are the toilet of all necros and against some eles we also can’t win.

Thread over… Engis are forced to run turrets…

Also, against eles? Man, with the amount of immob and chill you can put out you should be able to mess up the eles rotations really good…

Err, whatever… I was not planning on responding to this topic at all and even now I couldn’t stop myself…
I do question you about this though, why is it that | Napzor | is running, and peforming incredibly well with a celestial set-up without turrets, as well as Texbi, running the standard grenadier build? Why are they not running turrets like you said? Or did you mean that you were forced to run turrets because otherwise you would not win? There is a difference you see…

Napzor and texbi are awesome engis and I bet all my gold that they will lose 8 of ten duels on far or close against a top terrormancer. Lets say to people like “teh prototype”.

And I talk about condi engis. If they go for power, maybe they have better chances. But with pistol in main hand 8of10 for the necro. I take every bet.

And against eles. The big amount of immob… .yes sir. 1 sec on impact from pistol #5 if you are running grenades/toolkit. That will crush the ele.

Still, aside from the ele, I see no point in giving Engineers more condition removal since you seem to only have struggles against a Necromancer, more specifically, Terrormancer… So what do you do as a clever engineer? I don’t know, how about telling your teammates to help, CC a bit and retreat from the fight if needed – or better, let your team focus and shut down the Necromancer completely…

I already said in this thread why a Terrormancer is able to take down an engineer fast, and it has more to do with the amount of boons an engineer spams in less than 20 seconds than it has to do with their incapability of “quickly removing boons”… A Necromancer has no burst – period. Aside from SoS, it relies heavily on freecasting and corrupting the right boons to slowly take down an enemy…

Then again, you just want to have it all in one build, more specifically your favourite build, to counter any class – disregarding the fact that many other classes such as Condi Rangers already suffer when fighting an Engineer… A standard grenade build has a high uptime of Vigor and swiftness, and in case you haven’t noticed, immobilizing and chill also counts as conditions, and more specifically, to slow an engineer down in it’s tracks… Their self-sustaining capabilities in the form of regeneration, protection, vigor and blocks (if you run /s and toolkit) are by no means something to laugh at as a class aside from a Terrormancer…

Going back on ele, give me a class that can quickly stop a D/D ele on the point…
… thought so… I cannot believe you are even complaining about fighting those considering they just got back… Honestly, you should play one and know what you do wrong… Then again, using a turret build against an AoE happy Elementalist – good luck…

This thread deserves to be burried – what all of you are missing completely is the fact that an engineer does not have trouble surviving and certainly not against condition classes… What an engineer has troubles with is a Terrormancer, a very specific build. with a very specific reason – and I already said a couple of times that those builds should be brought into line without unbalancing fights between other classes vs. Engineers…

Guild channel with PvP uploads
Lost? Confused? [TCS] – A guild for every state of body and mind

Engineers and Condition Removal!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Lupanic.6502

Lupanic.6502

You think that condi builds should be able to kitten engis. That’s your opinion and we life in a free world. I respect your opinion but I do not agree with that.

You talked to Napzor. If this is true talk to him once again. He is the person created the turret build
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Nap-s-Condi-Turreteer-Tpvp-and-1v1-build/first#post4121366

Check his answer about my question about the necro setup.

I still think this is a balance problem and the engi needs help.