Guild Wars 2

That is weird. I had no idea the game is designed around speed clear. I also had no idea that a speed clear guild trumped the rest of the populations opinion. So we have evidence that more necros have been restricted from groups for just being necros then rangers have for just being rangers?

dancingmonkey.4902:

That is weird. I had no idea the game is designed around speed clear. I also had no idea that a speed clear guild trumped the rest of the populations opinion. So we have evidence that more necros have been restricted from groups for just being necros then rangers have for just being rangers?

I’ve been in pug groups before on my ele where a necro joins us, and then someone tells the necro to switch classes and I jump to defend them, and then that person just leaves. When I’ve pugged on a necro, I’ve had to wait much longer than on my ele to get a group, and I usually get inexperienced players running bad builds, just compared to starting an lfg as an ele.

And ONCE AGAIN, the DnT tournament is all the evidence you need to know that necromancers don’t fit into high end PvE at all. Yeah you can pug with whatever you like, and play how you want, but some people take the high end meta more seriously and many exclude classes because they have all the analysis, and group damage calculations done.

Anyway in general, when people try to be the very best they can be at a game mode, they don’t just do or make up whatever build they like unless they are stupid or ignorant. Most look to the high end community, that have done extensive testing to make the best builds and best strategies for each class and have shared it with the community.

And honestly you’re being a bit absurd if you think that rangers are worse off than necromancers in PvE. Their issue is that the bearbow builds that plague pugs are more common than bad necro builds/players because more people play ranger, and many on the lower end due to a sick fetish with using bows. There have been threads discussiong this if you’d like to learn more about GW2 social issues.

dancingmonkey.4902:

That is weird. I had no idea the game is designed around speed clear. I also had no idea that a speed clear guild trumped the rest of the populations opinion. So we have evidence that more necros have been restricted from groups for just being necros then rangers have for just being rangers?

What do you want to rank PvE with? Heals per second? Who can do the content the slowest and without dodging? The only logical way to rank the gametype is efficiency. And part of being efficient is being fast. Another part is being useful, necro has the least amount of useful utility. Just because you dont like it doesnt mean its not true.

nearlight.3064:

Anyway in general, when people try to be the very best they can be at a game mode, they don’t just do or make up whatever build they like unless they are stupid or ignorant. Most look to the high end community, that have done extensive testing to make the best builds and best strategies for each class and have shared it with the community.

No offense, but most people play the game for fun. As well, most players do not look to the “high end community” to tell them what is fun, I see many more complaints of rangers being expected to change professions then I do necros.

dancingmonkey.4902:

nearlight.3064:

Anyway in general, when people try to be the very best they can be at a game mode, they don’t just do or make up whatever build they like unless they are stupid or ignorant. Most look to the high end community, that have done extensive testing to make the best builds and best strategies for each class and have shared it with the community.

No offense, but most people play the game for fun. As well, most players do not look to the “high end community” to tell them what is fun, I see many more complaints of rangers being expected to change professions then I do necros.

Okay this is getting tiring arguing with you on two threads. In each case you argue that rangers are the worst and should prioritize across the board fixes over any other class. I get that, and while rangers do need improvements, and a few of which they are getting, I think it is honestly selfish of you to say in this, and the other thread that necromancers or mesmers are less deserving of bug fixes and necessary buffs for various reasons in every game mode.

I once made a thread entitled “The Anet devs do not care about necros, rangers, or mesmer” because even though ranking which is IN ALL GAME MODES the worst is subjective, you cannot deny that all three of those classes need some significant changes to be more viable in each game mode, and its selfish and silly saying that necros and mesmers can wait while rangers get fixed, when all 3 of the classes need help.

nearlight.3064:

Okay this is getting tiring arguing with you on two threads. In each case you argue that rangers are the worst and should prioritize across the board fixes over any other class. I get that, and while rangers do need improvements, and a few of which they are getting, I think it is honestly selfish of you to say in this, and the other thread that necromancers or mesmers are less deserving of bug fixes and necessary buffs for various reasons in every game mode.

I never once said they are less deserving. I simply disagreed with you when you said they have the most class breaking bugs. Your the only one using the word "deserving.

I am sorry you feel it is selfish that I disagree with. I am also sorry to see you resort to claiming I said something I did not simply because you are angry that I disagree with you.

nearlight.3064:

I once made a thread entitled “The Anet devs do not care about necros, rangers, or mesmer” because even though ranking which is IN ALL GAME MODES the worst is subjective, you cannot deny that all three of those classes need some significant changes to be more viable in each game mode, and its selfish and silly saying that necros and mesmers can wait while rangers get fixed, when all 3 of the classes need help.

Feel free to quote any post from me in which I said “necros and mesmers can wait while rangers get fixed”.

All I said is that I disagree with you that mesmers need the most bug fixes.

Mayama.1854:

Torsailr.8456:

Axialbloom.8109:

Agreed. Our feedback will be (even more) meaningless for the last 2 professions at this rate.

This isn’t really a fair statement to make. Development times are much longer than most people realize. No, 2 weeks isn’t enough time to read feedback and make changes, but then 8 weeks is on the short side too. The most that would ever be changed in this time frame is a slight tweaking of numbers; the actual functional changes being made won’t change. Any feedback dictating a large change to anything they’ve announced won’t be happening until the next patch.

Do you play dota2? They tweak and drasticaly change things faster than 2 weaks if needed.

Apparently, dota2 is the same size and scope of guild wars 2 right? Because that is what you are implying and they are not really.

Changing number isn’t that hard and Arenanet has shown to be able to do that extremely fast, the question is are the players well informed to be able to determine whether something needs to change or not.

It’s a pretty tough decision to decide order.

Elementalits: This is an IMPORTANT thing. ANET wants to assure us Ele still has tricks even though FGS and Meteornado is being nerfed. They want to show it early so that guilds can prepare, both tactically and mentally.

Mesmers: Currently lower tier in PvE. Mesmers are hungry for changes.

Necros: Lowest tier in PvE. Hungry for changes, and more team support.

Kain Francois.4328:

It’s a pretty tough decision to decide order.

Elementalits: This is an IMPORTANT thing. ANET wants to assure us Ele still has tricks even though FGS and Meteornado is being nerfed. They want to show it early so that guilds can prepare, both tactically and mentally.

Mesmers: Currently lower tier in PvE. Mesmers are hungry for changes.

Necros: Lowest tier in PvE. Hungry for changes, and more team support.

See, the obvious decision would be: why does anyone have to have no time for feedback. Why not have two weeks, or one, between the very last previews and the patch. That way no one has to worry about it. Also don’t plan a tournament in the middle of a big change preview.

coglin.1867:

Why? What reasonable feed back do you feel you can offer about a change you have yet to experience?….

agree…..its very clear they are not interested in our feedback on changes that have yet to be implemented. we are simply getting a preview of what will change….not specifics to use as a basis for criticism.

pointing out that they missed the boat on buffing/not buffing a certain area is useless now for the Sept. patch…..the changes are already made. if they wanted our feedback before their ideas were implemented, they would have previewed these changes months ago. i imagine the Ranger CDI scared them off from ever engaging us directly in balance discussion again.

if you haven’t got it by now…..balance/bug-fixes every 6-8 months. we have over half a year to complain/suggest/critique. I (and most players i would guess) think its an absurdly slow pace to balance skills/traits and fix their bugs….they think its just fine. They choose to listen or not. we choose to accept this or not (stop playing).

I simply see that still no one understands that they have feed back for a reason, but if you read your own feed back at least 75% of you are just children whining and crying over spilled milk and don’t do something about it. The 25% that aren’t whining are giving good advice but you have to know that if they tweak something it can drastically make necro’s bottom to top tier in seconds. Necro’s don’t have much survivability, with the lack of vigor gains only obtainable by other professions, and lack of stability WHICH is also obtained by 2 professions or choice of elite. Necro is in an unstable boundary where the changes can make the class out perform others or under perform them. The lack of boons necro’s have is reasons for only it’s a power house glass cannon or condi bomb. They are a means to help turn the fights on points in pvp, or face tank damage from bosses in PvE, as well as help rez without dying quickly from AoE or single target damage.

Whatever changes they make to help the survivability with Necro’s is needed.
I for one still believe that some traits should work just like some classes traits where you gain a condition it removes, nullifies(used to), or gives a boon per respective conversion. Necro’s don’t have one that does it except for Reaper’s Touch when CC’d fear foes in a 240 radius 5 targets, or downed which needs to be touched up more.

One thing would be changing Plague Signet to leave the passive but make the Active to Enemy Receives your conditions, and allies receive 3 primary boons from target, Or they could make it so if it hits the foe spreads conditions to enemies in a 140 radius of current target.

Flesh Wurm has several different uses, it’s the only non corruption/well/and spectral skill that can do a variety of things with an annoying cast time that’s kitten long especially during fights.

With the lack of Energy for Dodging necro’s bag of tricks is timing your skills to what you don’t want to get hit with.

Also a side note, Dodging has been glitchy for me sometimes while i’m in the middle of a dodge i get cc’d/feared/or whatever. It isn’t from a Line of Warding or a Spectral Wall, I know you can’t cross those oh and the Ring of Warding as well. Check into it please do your best devs. I like necro and i defend it because it has potential but the potential brings it into a downward spiral.

Bhawb.7408:

To put this in perspective, if they don’t clump them together, the last two professions to be covered will be done on September 5th, giving us just 4 days to give feedback and for them to respond. That just isn’t enough time.

LOL at the wishful thinking that makes you believe that they care about your feedback. These changes have been tested by them and they believe they are best, and nothing any general forum user has to say about it will matter.

Black Scoutsman.5830:

Bhawb.7408:

To put this in perspective, if they don’t clump them together, the last two professions to be covered will be done on September 5th, giving us just 4 days to give feedback and for them to respond. That just isn’t enough time.

LOL at the wishful thinking that makes you believe that they care about your feedback. These changes have been tested by them and they believe they are best, and nothing any general forum user has to say about it will matter.

Pretty much this, wait and see is pretty much the only thing we can do.

“Also a side note, Dodging has been glitchy for me sometimes while i’m in the middle of a dodge i get cc’d/feared/or whatever. It isn’t from a Line of Warding or a Spectral Wall, I know you can’t cross those oh and the Ring of Warding as well. Check into it please do your best devs. I like necro and i defend it because it has potential but the potential brings it into a downward spiral.”

Oh so I’m not the only one… For instance, the freaking steal/fear from thief fears me when I’m in the middle of a dodge, while I can obviously see that my endurance bar was cut by half for absolutly nothing. It’s worse than the immobilize bug.

Black Scoutsman.5830:

LOL at the wishful thinking that makes you believe that they care about your feedback. These changes have been tested by them and they believe they are best, and nothing any general forum user has to say about it will matter.

The very reason I want them to have time for feedback is because they actually listen. There have been a lot of Necromancer changes that started off because of forum feedback, for better and worse. The reality is they do listen, and have listened before, which is why I’m so peeved about this.

Bhawb.7408:

Black Scoutsman.5830:

LOL at the wishful thinking that makes you believe that they care about your feedback. These changes have been tested by them and they believe they are best, and nothing any general forum user has to say about it will matter.

The very reason I want them to have time for feedback is because they actually listen. There have been a lot of Necromancer changes that started off because of forum feedback, for better and worse. The reality is they do listen, and have listened before, which is why I’m so peeved about this.

From what I can tell (Anet historic), don’t they actually listen to us after the patch?

Dhuumfire was a player-requested change. Weakening Shroud, Terror, Reanimator/PotH, there are actually a lot of cases of them listening.

Bhawb.7408:

Dhuumfire was a player-requested change. Weakening Shroud, Terror, Reanimator/PotH, there are actually a lot of cases of them listening.

I didn’t say they weren’t listening. For example, the fear buff (spectral wall, and doom was actually me who started it in the french forum before aNet started deleting, and I bumped a lot of thread about buffing fear 1 year ago)

Anyway, please, re read my post

@coglin
Bhawb is a cool guy who does a lot of work for the community. So forget the ideas he or anyone is promoting their favourites.
There hasnt been a class tier list thread in a while, so i cant direct you anywhere, but the tiers exist even if you live under a rock.

@devs
Could you at least give the crucial changes for the last 2 proffesions in text format? Maybe this friday after regular skill bar?

It would be a nice way to partialy dig yourselves out of the “hey were listening to your feedback on this changes” lie

They listen before and after, its not an either-or thing.

Bhawb.7408:

They listen before and after, its not an either-or thing.

Not after they talk about the change for the incoming balance patch. If it’s not the case, please provide me some proof as I can’t find any.

Note: I believe, from what I gathered, that they accept feedbacks after the balance patch, and before they share their balance changes preview.

The only time they have ever listened after their ‘previews’ (which arethe final notes), is, I believe, Deceptive Evasion.

dietzero.3514:

The only time they have ever listened after their ‘previews’ (which arethe final notes), is, I believe, Deceptive Evasion.

Oh I remember, fair enough.

dietzero.3514:

The only time they have ever listened after their ‘previews’ (which arethe final notes), is, I believe, Deceptive Evasion.

Weakening Shroud is another case. They previewed it as getting the ICD increased from 15 to 25 seconds, but they listened when necros asked instead for a weaker effect and no cooldown increase (we actually got the cooldown removed on the trait with the weakened effect).

Was the same patch as the Deceptive Evasion backpedal, IIRC.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

dietzero.3514:

The only time they have ever listened after their ‘previews’ (which arethe final notes), is, I believe, Deceptive Evasion.

Weakening Shroud is another case. They previewed it as getting the ICD increased from 15 to 25 seconds, but they listened when necros asked instead for a weaker effect and no cooldown increase (we actually got the cooldown removed on the trait with the weakened effect).

Was the same patch as the Deceptive Evasion backpedal, IIRC.

Well anyway, I’m the kind of person who always looks both side of the coin, while we’re in a obvious disadvantage for “last minute changes”, I think we have an advantage over other professions considering we have more time to give our feedbacks before they share their necromancer change, which from my experience with Anet, is arguably more effective.

I would, however, like to second the request for having the preview notes for Guardians and Necros in text form earlier than that so it’s at least possible for some changes to be made based on feedback. Numbers adjustments are quick, and it’s always possible for them to just not implement a particular change until the patch rolls out. Implementing a different change takes significantly more time, however.

In any case, feedback between the last preview and the feature pack will have no time to be considered, as it will be preview→weekend→ Monday→patch day. Basically, just Monday for anything at all to happen.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I would, however, like to second the request for having the preview notes for Guardians and Necros in text form earlier than that so it’s at least possible for some changes to be made based on feedback. Numbers adjustments are quick, and it’s always possible for them to just not implement a particular change until the patch rolls out. Implementing a different change takes significantly more time, however.

In any case, feedback between the last preview and the feature pack will have no time to be considered, as it will be preview->weekend-> Monday->patch day. Basically, just Monday for anything at all to happen.

I pretty much agree.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

We’ll be covering mesmer and elementalist this week.

YUS!!!!! I <3 u

Bhawb.7408:

Kain Francois.4328:

It’s a pretty tough decision to decide order.

Elementalits: This is an IMPORTANT thing. ANET wants to assure us Ele still has tricks even though FGS and Meteornado is being nerfed. They want to show it early so that guilds can prepare, both tactically and mentally.

Mesmers: Currently lower tier in PvE. Mesmers are hungry for changes.

Necros: Lowest tier in PvE. Hungry for changes, and more team support.

See, the obvious decision would be: why does anyone have to have no time for feedback. Why not have two weeks, or one, between the very last previews and the patch. That way no one has to worry about it. Also don’t plan a tournament in the middle of a big change preview.

Uhm… I’m pretty sure ArenaNet doesn’t consider player feedback for the Ready-Up Livestream previews, especially since we haven’t even played the update yet.

I believe that ArenaNet has a community of testers, balancers, and QA, who give them feedback, long before the updates are announced to the public. What we see now is the result of those activities, and the result of their hard work.

In other words, ArenaNet really couldn’t give a kitten about our feedback, because we really don’t know anything about the update. ArenaNet skill balancers understand far more than we could imagine.

Kain Francois.4328:

ArenaNet skill balancers understand far more than we could imagine.

that’s often very debatable.
they balance the game almost exclusively around a game mode only a tiny fraction of the player-base plays (sPvP). they also very rarely split skill numbers/effects between game modes. the result is many classes having no place in optimum group play or any real role in entire game modes. then add the fact that they feel it’s fine for us to wait 6-8 months for the “meta to settle”, when all they really do are cautiously shave a few skills/traits ( i like the cautious approach, but these shaves should happen every 2-4 months so that missteps can be corrected in a timely manner).

Kain Francois.4328:

Bhawb.7408:

Kain Francois.4328:

It’s a pretty tough decision to decide order.

Elementalits: This is an IMPORTANT thing. ANET wants to assure us Ele still has tricks even though FGS and Meteornado is being nerfed. They want to show it early so that guilds can prepare, both tactically and mentally.

Mesmers: Currently lower tier in PvE. Mesmers are hungry for changes.

Necros: Lowest tier in PvE. Hungry for changes, and more team support.

See, the obvious decision would be: why does anyone have to have no time for feedback. Why not have two weeks, or one, between the very last previews and the patch. That way no one has to worry about it. Also don’t plan a tournament in the middle of a big change preview.

Uhm… I’m pretty sure ArenaNet doesn’t consider player feedback for the Ready-Up Livestream previews, especially since we haven’t even played the update yet.

I believe that ArenaNet has a community of testers, balancers, and QA, who give them feedback, long before the updates are announced to the public. What we see now is the result of those activities, and the result of their hard work.

In other words, ArenaNet really couldn’t give a kitten about our feedback, because we really don’t know anything about the update. ArenaNet skill balancers understand far more than we could imagine.

Comedy gold.

Souldestructor.9576:

Necro’s don’t have much survivability,

Whatever changes they make to help the survivability with Necro’s is needed.

I seriously don’t think we’re playing the same game.

Necromancers are BY FAR the class with the best durability. Their durability is not the reason why they’re not picked for PvE, and is one of the biggest reasons they’re part of the GWEN meta because they can just facetank anything. The reality of the matter is the necromancer lacks group support and individual lower-cooldown damage to warrant their use. As it stands, their competitive DPS comes from lich form, which while absolutely absurd for DPS’ing high health targets (by far the best in the game outside of FGS’ing which I don’t even consider PvE or a particular asset of a given class’s balance/PvE damage throughput), has too long of a cooldown and necromancers’ DPS outside of LF is pretty dreadful.

Necros face their PvE issues because they’re a bomb class on high cooldowns built around sustaining until their bombs are ready again. With dungeon design just being a test of who can drain HP bars the fastest, I doubt they’ll ever find themselves in the PvE meta until encounters are focused around such styles of play. Giving the necromancer anything to warrant their use otherwise in support or damage would subsequently put them above other classes in all regards and would force other classes in the same position necromancers are in now.

Most PvE problems come from poor dungeon design and have nothing to do with class imbalances. The necromancer is one which is arguably one of the best classes in PvP-based environments due to the above-mentioned nature of the class.

QQ shouldn’t come from the class being underpowered but because of bad dungeon and PvE mob design which doesn’t support the play style of the necromancer when groups are trying to optimize their clearing times.

DeceiverX.8361:

Souldestructor.9576:

Necro’s don’t have much survivability,

Whatever changes they make to help the survivability with Necro’s is needed.

Necromancers are BY FAR the class with the best durability. Their durability is not the reason why they’re not picked for PvE, and is one of the biggest reasons they’re part of the GWEN meta because they can just facetank anything. The reality of the matter is the necromancer lacks group support and individual lower-cooldown damage to warrant their use. As it stands, their competitive DPS comes from lich form, which while absolutely absurd for DPS’ing high health targets (by far the best in the game outside of FGS’ing which I don’t even consider PvE or a particular asset of a given class’s balance/PvE damage throughput), has too long of a cooldown and necromancers’ DPS outside of LF is pretty dreadful.

Incorrect. The reason necros are part of the GWEN meta is because of their control of boons and conditions, in addition to their ability to deal respectable AoE damage from range.

• Mainhand dagger has one of the hardest-hitting autoattack chains in the game;
• Reaper’s Touch is also capable of dealing out good damage if all three bounces hit the same target;
• Ghastly Claws does decent damage if you can get a complete channel on your target;
• WoS/WoC deal good AoE damage if appropriately geared/traited;
• Life Blast, although a slow moving projectile, hits very hard too, and Tainted Shackles combined with Life Transfer is a good way to AoE burst

All of the above is, to a large degree, dependent on the gear you’re using e.g. Berserker’s.

I mean honestly how do you balance necros? They have basicaly only HP as defense and the kittentiest stunbreakers in the game. If you only tweak numbers you would have to give them so much HP that they can shrough off 100blades, pistolwhips etc like nothing to bring them in line with other tankier specs.

Usagi.4835:

• Mainhand dagger has one of the hardest-hitting autoattack chains in the game;

The problem is you cant get toe to toe with melee classes you have to kite them with melee weapons… its really really anoying.

Mayama.1854:

The problem is you cant get toe to toe with melee classes you have to kite them with melee weapons… its really really anoying.

Thats the reason they intent to buff dagger main hand.

I think a bloodmagic necromancer should be able to stay in melee range with other melee classes but as it stands bloodmagic is to weak. So i hope the survivability buffs (i think those will mainly bloodmagic buffs) will be enough.

Muchacho.2390:

Mayama.1854:

The problem is you cant get toe to toe with melee classes you have to kite them with melee weapons… its really really anoying.

Thats the reason they intent to buff dagger main hand.

I think bloodmagic necromancer should be able to stay in melee range with other melee classes but as it stands bloodmagic is to weak. So i hope the survivability buffs (i think those will mainly bloodmagic buffs) will be enough.

Like Mayama said, it’s a little awkward facing off against certain melee-oriented classes in WvW/PvP. IMO, it’s mainly because necro doesn’t have much staying power currently. They’re vulnerable to being shut down with CC and don’t have many ways to either safely re-position in a fight or completely disengage and reset, which is why a lot of necros play from range.

People will mention DS as a second lifebar (which it is, though it’s also used for applying damage and soft/hard CC), but it’s a finite resource; soaking up damage is only so effective and, depending on your weapons, it takes a while to rebuild your lifeforce.

Obviously, we don’t know what the full list of changes are going to be. ANet said they were going to change the mainhand dagger on thieves so that it could cleave 2 targets, rather than 1.

I don’t think they said that they were going to be changing necromancer’s mainhand dagger as well, though people are speculating they might since thieves and necros share the same mainhand dagger autoattack animation though there’s no guarantee of that.

Usagi.4835:

I don’t think they said that they were going to be changing necromancer’s mainhand dagger as well, though people are speculating they might since thieves and necros share the same mainhand dagger autoattack animation though there’s no guarantee of that.

They said that the aa from necro dagger will hit 2 targets and they said they want to make the skirmishing weapons of necros (mainhand dagger and axe) more viable. Meaning they want melee necromancer builds more survivable.

Though i am not sure how good they will become.

Muchacho.2390:

They said that the aa from necro dagger will hit 2 targets and they said they want to make the skirmishing weapons of necros (mainhand dagger and axe) more viable. Meaning they want melee necromancer builds more survivable.

Though i am not sure how good they will become.

Because of the scaling of DS (full DS can be brutaly OP in a 1v1 but is useless in 1v3 or more) i really wonder how they want to do it.

Muchacho.2390:

Usagi.4835:

I don’t think they said that they were going to be changing necromancer’s mainhand dagger as well, though people are speculating they might since thieves and necros share the same mainhand dagger autoattack animation though there’s no guarantee of that.

They said that the aa from necro dagger will hit 2 targets and they said they want to make the skirmishing weapons of necros (mainhand dagger and axe) more viable. Meaning they want melee necromancer builds more survivable.

Though i am not sure how good they will become.

Guess we’ll have to ‘wait and see’ lol.

Necromancers fell out of team compositions because Elementalists got buffed. When Elementalists were bad Necromancers were in. There is far too much sustain and condi removal that Condition mancers are not ideal at the moment.

Chokolata.1870:

Necromancers fell out of team compositions because Elementalists got buffed. When Elementalists were bad Necromancers were in. There is far too much sustain and condi removal that Condition mancers are not ideal at the moment.

Not quite true. Eles had largely been replacing necros before their buffs. Mainly because Warriors had figured out that they hard-countered necros with the hambow spec and forced necros out almost entirely.

It makes good sense.

Guardian likely needs a few changes while necromancer needs several. It makes for a manageable sized video.

It is a bit ironic that players want BOTH quicker patch cycles AND the ability to give extra feedback which would delay those cycles.

In all fairness, the patch ideas so far have reflected quite a bit of the player feedback. No reason to suspect that will not continue.

Bhawb.7408:

Dhuumfire was a player-requested change. Weakening Shroud, Terror, Reanimator/PotH, there are actually a lot of cases of them listening.

Although I agree, this were changes based on feedback, and they do listen to forum feedback, the appear to generally do this after implementing their own ideas and solution.

Flumek.9043:

@coglin
Bhawb is a cool guy who does a lot of work for the community. So forget the ideas he or anyone is promoting their favourites.
There hasnt been a class tier list thread in a while, so i cant direct you anywhere, but the tiers exist even if you live under a rock.

Are you trying to convince us or yourself? He is all over the necro forums (which isn’t a bad thing), has a necro podcast, and in his concern about when the skill bar is, has never mentioned any professions but the necromancer, and never once mentions the other profession. so you have no leg to stand on when you suggest he has no bias towards a profession or shows it favoritism.

spoj.9672:

I always felt people were being stupid and overdramatic by saying Anet hates necros (or that they dont play them). But to be honest its really starting to seem that way. I cant really give anet the benefit of the doubt anymore. Its been constant disappointment since release.

Seriously? because they are not doing this particular professions “skill bar” video in the order that you want it, your going to suggest they never play the profession, or that the dislike it entirely? Lets stick with this next line.

spoj.9672:

people were being stupid and overdramatic by saying Anet hates necros (or that they dont play them).

coglin.1867:

Bhawb.7408:

Dhuumfire was a player-requested change. Weakening Shroud, Terror, Reanimator/PotH, there are actually a lot of cases of them listening.

Although I agree, this were changes based on feedback, and they do listen to forum feedback, the appear to generally do this after implementing their own ideas and solution.

Flumek.9043:

@coglin
Bhawb is a cool guy who does a lot of work for the community. So forget the ideas he or anyone is promoting their favourites.
There hasnt been a class tier list thread in a while, so i cant direct you anywhere, but the tiers exist even if you live under a rock.

Are you trying to convince us or yourself? He is all over the necro forums (which isn’t a bad thing), has a necro podcast, and in his concern about when the skill bar is, has never mentioned any professions but the necromancer, and never once mentions the other profession. so you have no leg to stand on when you suggest he has no bias towards a profession or shows it favoritism.

Oh, Bhawb has bias and favoritism, but that doesn’t make his point here any less valid. If the purpose of releasing these videos in the manner they did was to gather feedback and make some last-minute changes (and according to ANet’s statements, it was), then showing the last video (regardless of which professions it contained) just four days before patch day (at the end of the day and right before the weekend, no less) is saying “Screw you, last professions, your feedback is meaningless.” There simply is no time at all to respond.

I’m sure someone else would have been equally vocal if the last video had something else besides necro.

I am not arguing whether it does or does not leave time for feed back. I am arguing that if I was Anet, I wouldn’t care either.

When they make an announcement of any kind, they get 5,287 threads of pure speculation, whining, and post full of accusatory and insulting post towards Anet or the devs. Then they may get one or two constructive threads that get derails in the direction of the first 5,287.

It is not a matter of whether they want feedback or not if you ask me. It is a matter of the fact that they do not get constructive feedback that can be sorted out. They get feedback based on personal desire and backhanded remarks directed at them.

The video isn’t even released yet, and you have so called up standing players, who do a lot for the community saying

I always felt people were being stupid and overdramatic by saying Anet hates necros (or that they dont play them). But to be honest its really starting to seem that way. I cant really give anet the benefit of the doubt anymore.

When these are some of the politer comments you get thrown at you, why not wait and let the ideas you have come up with, if your Anet, and let them settle in and take feedback+inside metric only they can see ?

coglin.1867:

spoj.9672:

I always felt people were being stupid and overdramatic by saying Anet hates necros (or that they dont play them). But to be honest its really starting to seem that way. I cant really give anet the benefit of the doubt anymore. Its been constant disappointment since release.

Seriously? because they are not doing this particular professions “skill bar” video in the order that you want it, your going to suggest they never play the profession, or that the dislike it entirely? Lets stick with this next line.

spoj.9672:

people were being stupid and overdramatic by saying Anet hates necros (or that they dont play them).

No this opinion has nothing to do with the skillbar order. It has to do with anet being unable to address any of our concerns since release. Im just venting my frustration now because its got to that point. I thought that was fairly obvious in my post. Guess not.

The one sentence you didnt quote put the entire post out of context lol.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

We will not be able to cram the last four into this friday’s skill bar. The segment for this week has already been edited and finalized, but the following skill bar has not yet been recorded, and there’s not enough time to record and edit the final segment to fit it into this friday.

I may be not well-informed or wrong, but recording a short 15 minutes video and then putting a Dev talking on green-screen, explaining what’s going on, in one place in the game, on two characters without any use of special effects, advanced editing would take me about an hour. During my studies we were recording similar things on monthly basis in less than that.
Sure, there’s a thing with green-screen, but it doesn’t even have to be one. Now, putting it together and editing was like one-two hours more maybe? On full-lazy mode and without much experience?

I think just recording 2 more professions and adding them to existing skillbar wouldn’t take even 3-4 hours for one guy who know’s what’s going on. It isn’t a montage, CGI or such thing.

If you can’t do this, just give us your script in .pdf and we will be perfectly cool. We don’t love Karl so much that we can only hear these news from him (although my friend made a point that his smile is adorable, she may like Balancing team more than me ).

Come on, some hint and understanding, all we want.

Maybe it’s wishfull thinking. But the direction Anet is going with the skillbar and ready up is great. If they could have the same momentum in delivering skills and balance patches then I’m all for this.

Can you imagine, small balance patches evey month?

@coglin

As far as i can see the only person QQ-ing about necro’s is me. (with the occasional troll and qq post about other profs)
Most other posts on the necro/balance forum are pretty constructive, helpfull and full of suggestions and bugreports, clear state of the profession and general opinion about the profession are clear and understandable.

Thing is, and you would know this, the meta changes.. last patch you did not hear a necro about evasion (!!!COUNTERPLAY!!!..you reading along? ^^) as much as you do now. if there was someone reading and playing along there would be a clear and obvious signal goign out trough the changes that are implemented.

So far, there has been no such signal and most necro changes are trough feedback from necro’s bowing their head when the whole non-necro spvp community is in an uproar. you won’t hear the necro community be in an uproar simply because there are so few of us in high level spvp

(hows that for circular reasoning)

cheers!

Rym.1469:

I may be not well-informed or wrong (…)
I think (…)

I think I see your problem here
That, plus even “just 3 or 4 hours” are a lot in a dev day, even more when people keep asking “fix that NAO”, “do you even play the game” and “why don’t you read/answer the forums??!!1”. Devs are humans, and days have a limited number of hours.
In fact, if my boss told me “do 4 more hours of work today because a client doesn’t like the schedule we announced weeks ago”, I would feel rightfully kittened.

That aside, and not targeted to someone in particular: the schedule isn’t new, why complaining know that the news is the final order of classes? Any classes beeing last would have posed the same problem of short feedback time, wouldn’kitten

I find that the balance updates are fairly reasonable as far as changes go, but the tempo of releases is too slow. 1 balance patch every 6 months is just….uh

Elidath.5679:

Rym.1469:

I may be not well-informed or wrong (…)
I think (…)

I think I see your problem here
That, plus even “just 3 or 4 hours” are a lot in a dev day, even more when people keep asking “fix that NAO”, “do you even play the game” and “why don’t you read/answer the forums??!!1”. Devs are humans, and days have a limited number of hours.
In fact, if my boss told me “do 4 more hours of work today because a client doesn’t like the schedule we announced weeks ago”, I would feel rightfully kittened.

That aside, and not targeted to someone in particular: the schedule isn’t new, why complaining know that the news is the final order of classes? Any classes beeing last would have posed the same problem of short feedback time, wouldn’kitten

Primarily because there are two schedules that are involved: the Skill Bar and the Feature Patch.

When the Skill bar videos started, it was generally figured that the time they would be put out would be a patch in October, given it’s been a 6 month cycle for feature patches. At that point, 8 weeks to cover all 8 professions would still allow for some decent time to discuss the changes.

Then halfway through the videos, it was announced that these changes were slated for the September 9 feature pack. This is when things got hairy because whoever is last effectively has only the day right before the patch for ANet to consider their feedback and change things unless the schedule for the skill bar videos was altered for the second half.