Dogged march with melandru and lemongrass on the warrior. Two sources of stability.
Shh, I gonna tell you one thing, secret thing, almost nobody knows it yet.
It’s hard to believe, but… you can use melandru runes and lemongrass on other classes. I was literally shocked when someone told me about that.
Some people apparently would rather play other games.
And I will be along with up to twenty or so other people from my guild and allied guilds alone as soon as a viable option presents itself. I suspect I’m not alone.
Good, you do that, go back to Everquest or whatever (older) games got it right. Being able to use skills without having a target was a selling point of this one.
Fairly certain he was talking about games like: Elder Scrolls Online, Camelot Unchained, and maybe even Wildstar. Ofc if we took the entire gw2 population and moved them to DAoC we’d all be a lot happier, lol
I don’t know which games he was talking about but he did say “older games”.
Aren’t too many that go that deep into tools for an engie
Eles I can see running that, but they usually go Strength of Stone if condi, or Rock Solid for stability. Maybe if it was an adept trait for the other classes they would use it more often.
Ohh and don’t forget tier 2 and tier 3 healthpool instead of tier 1
Hmm, don’t get regen on those other two either…and they are both master trait…maybe you guys are right and Anet just wants warriors out running everyone.
Hmm, don’t get regen on those other two either…and they are both master trait…
Hmm, engi have Self-Regulating Defenses as adept trait with full 100% evade against everything, instead of mere physical damage for warrior grandmaster trait…
Charge, Heartseeker, Leap of Faith, savage leap, monarch’s leap, etc, etc, etc…these really need to be changed to be used at a target, would fix a lot of mobility issues in wvw.
This thread idea is pretty stupid. You know they tested it during the beta. It was awful because the caster simply ran sideways or teleported behind you cancelling your gap closer which still happens by the way all the time versus spells which never miss. A better suggestion for the original thread creator and some others who complain would be to recommend a distance reduction with some of them but also reduce cooldown to keep the fight fair. I have long complained that in combat melee class are left with much less mobility. You complain that you cannot kill us because we flee well did you notice we are unable to reach you that is a serious problem that is much bigger. Also you should specify for warriors since Guardians are now ranked 2nd slowest class in game. Lets start with making the fight fair then lets worry about who gets to garrison 5 seconds faster.
Hmm, don’t get regen on those other two either…and they are both master trait…
Hmm, engi have Self-Regulating Defenses as adept trait with full 100% evade against everything, instead of mere physical damage for warrior grandmaster trait…
Hmm, don’t get regen on those other two either…and they are both master trait…
Hmm, engi have Self-Regulating Defenses as adept trait with full 100% evade against everything, instead of mere physical damage for warrior grandmaster trait…
Now whos changing topics?
Why are you even bothering with this guy?
It’s already been said that it is dogged march, melandru, and lemongrass in conjunction with multiple gap creators on short weapon cooldowns and multiple sources of stability that put warriors over the top.
Dogged march, melandru, and lemongrass was only brought up as a single topic when some fool said you should just snare them.
Some people apparently would rather play other games.
And I will be along with up to twenty or so other people from my guild and allied guilds alone as soon as a viable option presents itself. I suspect I’m not alone.
Good, you do that, go back to Everquest or whatever (older) games got it right. Being able to use skills without having a target was a selling point of this one.
Fairly certain he was talking about games like: Elder Scrolls Online, Camelot Unchained, and maybe even Wildstar. Ofc if we took the entire gw2 population and moved them to DAoC we’d all be a lot happier, lol
I don’t know which games he was talking about but he did say “older games”.
I said older games in one post. Someone else said other games that I also responded to in a different post. Try to keep up.
And with respect to older games, I was referring to some older games where people were snared when their health got low. I think that is a good mechanic.
certain leap skills should require a target. For example, a warrior’s leaps should be for getting into combat not out of it (and they don’t really need the leap finishers nor should be the one to be buffing the party).
You could go thru leap by leap to decide I suppose, but it is an option.
Clearly, something should be done about skills that are designed to be closers becoming escape tools. That is for most all classes.
That is almost as silly as I have seen things that are supposed to knock you back get used to close on an enemy. About face. Hit knockback and close on the enemy.
Neither really was intended. But you don’t want the solution to be worse medicine than the problem.
Clearly, something should be done about skills that are designed to be closers becoming escape tools. That is for most all classes.
You got the design docs where you read that they were intended solely as gap-closers? I don’t think so.
The game is full of multi-function skills, almost as if they wanted to give them as much potential for improvisation open as they could. Why should these skills be different?
Sure. Making assumptions just like anyone not at ANet (and even some of them are making assumptions about the players).
But I think there is a greater logic to the idea that warriors needed a way to get into a fight verus needed a way to get out of a fight (considering they are supposed to beat the snot out of you in a 1v1 melee absent dodges, evades and elusiveness). In most games melee classes are not designed to get out of a fight (even outnumbered) by running away. You get into a bad fight as a melee class you fight your way out or die.
Same assumption that a melee class should do substantially more damage in melee range and pretty weak damage at range. A caster typically goes exactly the other way.
On the other hand, ranged classes are supposed to kill runners by SHOOTING them. They were not designed ( I would assume) to have gap creating skills being used to get into melee range.
We can always disagree on the definition of clearly or our vision on how to design classes or even class balance but that is my working set of assumptions.
But if you don’t have this then all classes are supposed to be all things and that is going to be a mess to keep in balance.
But I think there is a greater logic to the idea that warriors needed a way to get into a fight verus needed a way to get out of a fight
I don’t think so. Basically I see a lot of multifunctional skills and you basically are saying that I shouldn’t look at leap skills like that and subsequently narrow down the things that one should be able to do with a skill to fit or argumens as needed.
There is another reason why you are so wrong about leap skills requiring a target and that is that in general you don’t need a target to ‘swing your sword’ (or do something else), you can just, ‘swing your sword’ and if anybody’s in front of you, it will hit. There is even a options-toggle that lets the client promote a target you hit like that as the current target – effectively the reversed order of what you suggest. And don’t see your logic in that.
Clearly, something should be done about skills that are designed to be closers becoming escape tools. That is for most all classes
There is that design again, it’s about time you gave us the link to those design documents where you read that these skills were designed to only be gap-closers?
That is almost as silly as I have seen things that are supposed to knock you back get used to close on an enemy. About face. Hit knockback and close on the enemy.
You know, actually … I use a healing skill to do just that. It’s not silly, it’s using the tools you get in a creative way. It increases the amount of skill you can bring into the game as player – as opposed to clicking specific buttons for specific situations. I think they might have said something about that in the trailers and interviews, and even in more recent livestreams.
We disagree. Nothing personal. You make good points but I just think the other side is more compelling.
I would rather have differentiation in the classes (e.g. warriors not being able to escape easily and ranged characters not being able to close easily) than have as open diversity of play styles and clever play as you would like. There are a lot of little clues that suggest this was the intention but reading tea leaves is an imprecise science.
That is a real debate and I can respect both sides of it.
Dogged march with melandru and lemongrass on the warrior. Two sources of stability.
Shh, I gonna tell you one thing, secret thing, almost nobody knows it yet.
It’s hard to believe, but… you can use melandru runes and lemongrass on other classes. I was literally shocked when someone told me about that.
Other classes don’t have Dogged March, lol
You don’t need dogged march to feel the OPness of melandru runes alone. Condis roll right off.
If it is working as intended then why were elems nerfed for exactly what warriors are doing now.
Because Arenanet considered RTL unbalanced, not the concept of movement skills (without target) as a whole.
Assuming you are talking about RTL. But even if not, just because one skill/trait/item is nerfed, it doesn’t mean the entire concept is unbalanced.
Then what was the reason RTL got nerfed? Because eles used it to run/reset fights regardless of having a target or not which is what warriors are doing.
Again, my suggestion is either nerf all leap skills like the way they did with RTL (cooldown penalty on miss) or remove RTL’s nerf and think of another way to address this issue. The issue is about Weapon Skills, not Utilities so comparing the 2 is just plain stupid.
If it is working as intended then why were elems nerfed for exactly what warriors are doing now.
Because Arenanet considered RTL unbalanced, not the concept of movement skills (without target) as a whole.
Assuming you are talking about RTL. But even if not, just because one skill/trait/item is nerfed, it doesn’t mean the entire concept is unbalanced.
Then what was the reason RTL got nerfed? Because eles used it to run/reset fights regardless of having a target or not which is what warriors are doing.
Again, my suggestion is either nerf all leap skills like the way they did with RTL (cooldown penalty on miss) or remove RTL’s nerf and think of another way to address this issue. The issue is about Weapon Skills, not Utilities so comparing the 2 is just plain stupid.
My original argument stands. Just because RTL was overpowered doesn’t mean all movement skills are. And I never compared weapon kills with utility skills.
Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors
If it is working as intended then why were elems nerfed for exactly what warriors are doing now.
Because Arenanet considered RTL unbalanced, not the concept of movement skills (without target) as a whole.
Assuming you are talking about RTL. But even if not, just because one skill/trait/item is nerfed, it doesn’t mean the entire concept is unbalanced.
Then what was the reason RTL got nerfed? Because eles used it to run/reset fights regardless of having a target or not which is what warriors are doing.
Again, my suggestion is either nerf all leap skills like the way they did with RTL (cooldown penalty on miss) or remove RTL’s nerf and think of another way to address this issue. The issue is about Weapon Skills, not Utilities so comparing the 2 is just plain stupid.
My original argument stands. Just because RTL was overpowered doesn’t mean all movement skills are. And I never compared weapon kills with utility skills.
Care to elaborate how it was overpowered aside from its mobility and ability to reset a fight at will? And how different it is from other mobility weapon skills that it has to get a 25% + 100% CD increase if not used as a gap closer and why other mobility/leap weapon skills don’t deserve the same fate?
Edit: On a side note, I think the range “nerf” was more of a “fix”. Tooltip says 1,200 range but it goes for some 1.5k something instead.
BTW sorry, that utility vs weapon skill comparison was not for you. Some guy on the previous page said Blink abilities should get 80s CD if it doesn’t “hit”.
Care to elaborate how it was overpowered aside from its mobility and ability to reset a fight at will?
I personally did not believe RTL was overpowered, eles depend on movement to stay alive. But ArenaNet believed it was. They simply made a mistake (imo).
Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors
If it is working as intended then why were elems nerfed for exactly what warriors are doing now.
Because Arenanet considered RTL unbalanced, not the concept of movement skills (without target) as a whole.
Assuming you are talking about RTL. But even if not, just because one skill/trait/item is nerfed, it doesn’t mean the entire concept is unbalanced.
Then what was the reason RTL got nerfed? Because eles used it to run/reset fights regardless of having a target or not which is what warriors are doing.
Again, my suggestion is either nerf all leap skills like the way they did with RTL (cooldown penalty on miss) or remove RTL’s nerf and think of another way to address this issue. The issue is about Weapon Skills, not Utilities so comparing the 2 is just plain stupid.
My original argument stands. Just because RTL was overpowered doesn’t mean all movement skills are. And I never compared weapon kills with utility skills.
Care to elaborate how it was overpowered aside from its mobility and ability to reset a fight at will? And how different it is from other mobility weapon skills that it has to get a 25% + 100% CD increase if not used as a gap closer and why other mobility/leap weapon skills don’t deserve the same fate?
Edit: On a side note, I think the range “nerf” was more of a “fix”. Tooltip says 1,200 range but it goes for some 1.5k something instead.
BTW sorry, that utility vs weapon skill comparison was not for you. Some guy on the previous page said Blink abilities should get 80s CD if it doesn’t “hit”.
I personally did not believe RTL was overpowered, eles depend on movement to stay alive. But ArenaNet believed it was. They simply made a mistake (imo).
It’s cool, it’s good that we’ve come to an understanding. Most people are fine with the 25% CD increase but were not ok with the 100% increase on miss. Anet practically ignored the playerbase until people gave up on it.
Now that other classes(mostly warriors) gets away with the very same reason RTL was nerfed, people are crying foul again. RTL was never given a good closure. That’s why imo they should treat the same issue right now with the same way they “fixed” the previous one. If Anet mans up and admit that RTL nerf was over the top, they should revert it and think of another way how to address the mobility issues.
I get this issue. I even made a thread about Monarch’s Leap saying I wish that it were changed to give more of a reward for hitting with it as opposed to just running away, but taking the latter option out of the game completely limits playstyle options, and when you limit playstyle options, you end up killing the fun of the game for a lot of people.
I don’t think disengaging is that big of a deal because the issue only occurs in WvW and it can be part of a greater strategy there; Like baiting or just regrouping for a stronger push.
yes make them require target then they will be completly useless!
9/10 times rush/bullsrush other gap closers will bug if target moves a little. So doing this will make mobility skills insta death button.
If you gap close at someone, you’re still closing the gap even if the damage doesn’t land. I’d rather have Warrior GS 5 hardly hit me but still close the gap with me, instead of the warrior using it to escape from a fight all the time.
Yes you would like that but now look at it from the warrior prospective. We would actually like our skills to hit and do what they were meant to do. We would not like our skill to run to you then hold us in place or make us run a wierd buggy circle around you then hit the air way away from your direction.
I didn’t expect this from you AD guys. Come on you guise. I know mobility skill get used the wrong way but the people that use em to kite or get some distance to heal then come back in don’t deserve this. Sure there are trolls that just run and keep on running but they arn’t worth the bother to chace in wvw as kills have no real contribution to wvw unless you are taking something and need to kill people in the way.
Making these skills require targets will only dumb down the game more.
Btw if this did go through im pretty sure ppl will target the various random mobs in wvw and keep doing what you shouldn’t be bothering with which is running. After that I think you will put up a ‘’remove mobs from wvw’’ Then you will remember wait I needed those things to stack sigils… Then comes the ‘’Bring back mobs to wvw’’ thread and this is why we cant have nice things.
Hmm, don’t get regen on those other two either…and they are both master trait…maybe you guys are right and Anet just wants warriors out running everyone.
yes because chasing runners is such a rewarding part of the game.
Charge, Heartseeker, Leap of Faith, savage leap, monarch’s leap, etc, etc, etc…these really need to be changed to be used at a target, would fix a lot of mobility issues in wvw.
Yes.
the problem in this game is that gap closers and escape mechanisms have been rolled into 1. Seperate them.
Gap closers should be used to close gaps regardless if it lands any damage or not, the point of having a gap closer is to get closer to your target to be able to do damage with your primary damage dealing attacks, or get close enough for a pull, or cripple, or immob, etc. Any damage that an actual gap closer does is an afterthought.
Escape mechanisms should be used to escape, instead, escape mechanisms are too few and gap closers are used as such.
In addition, the most common use of gap closers in the game is not to close gap, but to increase overall landspeed. This is very wrong.
But why should gap closers and escape mechanisms not be rolled into one? These are not the only kind of skills that can be used both offensively and defensively. As it is now, it is up to player creativity to decide what to use it for.
For example, I’ll use guardian Line of Warding for offense when I’m about to leap into the middle of a zerg stack and I want them to trip up on it. Or I’ll use it for defense to prevent the typical player from coming within melee range of me as I’m using my Empower. The point is, it is MY CHOICE how to use the skill. That’s a lot more fun and engaging and open-ended than being forced into using a skill for only defense or offense.
Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
But why should gap closers and escape mechanisms not be rolled into one?
Because it allows professions not meant to escape to do so, or professions not meant to close gaps to overwrite that weakness.
Dark Path is a good example of a “gap closer” -it doesn’t work without a target, and has associated damage and effects, so its a fairly bad escape in most situations (critters aside), and is best used for offense.
Blink is good examples of an escape mechanism, as all it does is let you move around and avoid damage without hampering your foe, so it has no direct offensive applications.
yes make them require target then they will be completly useless!
9/10 times rush/bullsrush other gap closers will bug if target moves a little. So doing this will make mobility skills insta death button.
If you gap close at someone, you’re still closing the gap even if the damage doesn’t land. I’d rather have Warrior GS 5 hardly hit me but still close the gap with me, instead of the warrior using it to escape from a fight all the time.
Yes you would like that but now look at it from the warrior prospective. We would actually like our skills to hit and do what they were meant to do. We would not like our skill to run to you then hold us in place or make us run a wierd buggy circle around you then hit the air way away from your direction.
I didn’t expect this from you AD guys. Come on you guise. I know mobility skill get used the wrong way but the people that use em to kite or get some distance to heal then come back in don’t deserve this. Sure there are trolls that just run and keep on running but they arn’t worth the bother to chace in wvw as kills have no real contribution to wvw unless you are taking something and need to kill people in the way.
Making these skills require targets will only dumb down the game more.
Btw if this did go through im pretty sure ppl will target the various random mobs in wvw and keep doing what you shouldn’t be bothering with which is running. After that I think you will put up a ‘’remove mobs from wvw’’ Then you will remember wait I needed those things to stack sigils… Then comes the ‘’Bring back mobs to wvw’’ thread and this is why we cant have nice things.
Sry, I’m a Guardian. I’m so used to things not hitting I just assume everyone elses attacks don’t hit like they are supposed to either. Sword auto attack number 3, Sword 3, Scepter 1, Scepter 2, Scepter 3, Hammer 2 on elevation change, GS 5 on targets at max range, Staff 2 getting stuck in the ground and getting bugged so you can’t use it, Focus 4 not hitting for a TON of reasons, and Shield 5 not blocking projectiles.
But why should gap closers and escape mechanisms not be rolled into one?
Because it allows professions not meant to escape to do so, or professions not meant to close gaps to overwrite that weakness.
Dark Path is a good example of a “gap closer” -it doesn’t work without a target, and has associated damage and effects, so its a fairly bad escape in most situations (critters aside), and is best used for offense.
Blink is good examples of an escape mechanism, as all it does is let you move around and avoid damage without hampering your foe, so it has no direct offensive applications.
How DARE you make sense…YOU TAKE THAT BACK RIGHT MEOW!
But why should gap closers and escape mechanisms not be rolled into one?
Because it allows professions not meant to escape to do so, or professions not meant to close gaps to overwrite that weakness.
Dark Path is a good example of a “gap closer” -it doesn’t work without a target, and has associated damage and effects, so its a fairly bad escape in most situations (critters aside), and is best used for offense.
Blink is good examples of an escape mechanism, as all it does is let you move around and avoid damage without hampering your foe, so it has no direct offensive applications.
“Because it allows professions not meant to escape to do so”
According to you. I don’t remember seeing anywhere that anet has said gap closers shouldn’t be used for escape.
And don’t bother bringing up Elementalists. Anet never said why they chose to nerf rtl (as far as I know anyways) so any reasons as to why that happened is just speculation at best.
Also I think that if they didn’t want people to use gap closers as escapes then they would have all been changed at the same time.
But why should gap closers and escape mechanisms not be rolled into one?
Because it allows professions not meant to escape to do so, or professions not meant to close gaps to overwrite that weakness.
Dark Path is a good example of a “gap closer” -it doesn’t work without a target, and has associated damage and effects, so its a fairly bad escape in most situations (critters aside), and is best used for offense.
Blink is good examples of an escape mechanism, as all it does is let you move around and avoid damage without hampering your foe, so it has no direct offensive applications.
“Because it allows professions not meant to escape to do so”
According to you. I don’t remember seeing anywhere that anet has said gap closers shouldn’t be used for escape.
And don’t bother bringing up Elementalists. Anet never said why they chose to nerf rtl (as far as I know anyways) so any reasons as to why that happened is just speculation at best.
If a gap closer can be used to further remove risk vs reward choices made IN combat then thats terrible design.
If you use a gap closer in combat to get closer to another target instead of the one beating your kitten to avoid damage, thats a risk vs reward choice and is smart design.
How come this is so difficult to understand? Are you guys really wanting all counter play and risk vs reward removed from this game?
But why should gap closers and escape mechanisms not be rolled into one?
Because it allows professions not meant to escape to do so, or professions not meant to close gaps to overwrite that weakness.
Dark Path is a good example of a “gap closer” -it doesn’t work without a target, and has associated damage and effects, so its a fairly bad escape in most situations (critters aside), and is best used for offense.
Blink is good examples of an escape mechanism, as all it does is let you move around and avoid damage without hampering your foe, so it has no direct offensive applications.
“Because it allows professions not meant to escape to do so”
According to you. I don’t remember seeing anywhere that anet has said gap closers shouldn’t be used for escape.
And don’t bother bringing up Elementalists. Anet never said why they chose to nerf rtl (as far as I know anyways) so any reasons as to why that happened is just speculation at best.
If a gap closer can be used to further remove risk vs reward choices made IN combat then thats terrible design.
If you use a gap closer in combat to get closer to another target instead of the one beating your kitten to avoid damage, thats a risk vs reward choice and is smart design.
How come this is so difficult to understand? Are you guys really wanting all counter play and risk vs reward removed from this game?
Removed? I’m confused. I’m guessing we’re mostly talking about warriors here and warriors mobility hasn’t changed since the head start weekend.
Though I could mistaken and you have something else in mind. That’s beside the point, what exactly is being removed when arguing for nothing to change vs nerfing skills?
If anything you are the one who is asking for something to be removed.
But why should gap closers and escape mechanisms not be rolled into one?
Because it allows professions not meant to escape to do so, or professions not meant to close gaps to overwrite that weakness.
Dark Path is a good example of a “gap closer” -it doesn’t work without a target, and has associated damage and effects, so its a fairly bad escape in most situations (critters aside), and is best used for offense.
Blink is good examples of an escape mechanism, as all it does is let you move around and avoid damage without hampering your foe, so it has no direct offensive applications.
“Because it allows professions not meant to escape to do so”
According to you. I don’t remember seeing anywhere that anet has said gap closers shouldn’t be used for escape.
And don’t bother bringing up Elementalists. Anet never said why they chose to nerf rtl (as far as I know anyways) so any reasons as to why that happened is just speculation at best.
If a gap closer can be used to further remove risk vs reward choices made IN combat then thats terrible design.
If you use a gap closer in combat to get closer to another target instead of the one beating your kitten to avoid damage, thats a risk vs reward choice and is smart design.
How come this is so difficult to understand? Are you guys really wanting all counter play and risk vs reward removed from this game?
Removed? I’m confused. I’m guessing we’re mostly talking about warriors here and warriors mobility hasn’t changed since the head start weekend.
Though I could mistaken and you have something else in mind. That’s beside the point, what exactly is being removed when arguing for nothing to change vs nerfing skills?
If anything you are the one who is asking for something to be removed.
LOL. If a warrior jumps into a fight knowing that at any moment he can swap to GS for burst then hit the 3/5 combo and yolo out of there…thats not risk vs reward. Theres hardly any risk and great reward. So thats what I’m talking about. Its this kind of thing that needs to be fixed, not the actual ability.
For instance, that scenario I just described. If the warrior had to use 5 towards another target he’d have to find one outside the fight, or a target on the other side of the fight away from the incoming damage. Do you see how much more interesting that gameplay is? Not only for the warrior, but the other people in the fight? It requires situational awareness =P
Charge, Heartseeker, Leap of Faith, savage leap, monarch’s leap, etc, etc, etc…these really need to be changed to be used at a target, would fix a lot of mobility issues in wvw.
Yes.
the problem in this game is that gap closers and escape mechanisms have been rolled into 1. Seperate them.
Gap closers should be used to close gaps regardless if it lands any damage or not, the point of having a gap closer is to get closer to your target to be able to do damage with your primary damage dealing attacks, or get close enough for a pull, or cripple, or immob, etc. Any damage that an actual gap closer does is an afterthought.
Escape mechanisms should be used to escape, instead, escape mechanisms are too few and gap closers are used as such.
In addition, the most common use of gap closers in the game is not to close gap, but to increase overall landspeed. This is very wrong.
So if i wanna get to you and kill you i use gap closers. You are my tarhet and i want to get there as fast as i can.
Now if i want to get the hell away from you. That hillside in the opposite. Direction. Is my target and i wanna closer that gap to. Ill use gap closers. Seems like they are working as intended
No no, Blink can also be used to get you into a position of offense and take the enemy by surprise. Again, player creativity is enabled by the open-ended choice these skills offer. To change that would stifle that diversity of playstyle.
Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
LOL. If a warrior jumps into a fight knowing that at any moment he can swap to GS for burst then hit the 3/5 combo and yolo out of there…thats not risk vs reward. Theres hardly any risk and great reward.
There is great reward only if he’s able to stay in the fight long enough to finish the downed. On a full zerker warrior you’re talking about like 10-12k damage on the burst, maybe slightly more depending upon target (iirc correctly with stacks and might it can be like 16k). The great risk is that the warrior gets downed and killed if he stays too long to try to finish. There’s little reward in having to hit the 3/5 GS combo before he can finish downed.
Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
But why should gap closers and escape mechanisms not be rolled into one? These are not the only kind of skills that can be used both offensively and defensively. As it is now, it is up to player creativity to decide what to use it for.
Because it allows professions not meant to escape to do so, or professions not meant to close gaps to overwrite that weakness.
What professions are meant to do or not is not your call.
They have very obviously and deliberately rolled many functions into single skills and left the mechanics very open to improvisation. They’ve also been quite clear on wanting professions to be able to fill many roles.
If you’d ever used a leap skill properly you’d know that deselecting then using a leap in a team fight gets as much use (if not more) as a targeted leap.
For whatever reason people want mobility nerfed, don’t make suggestions that have as much impact in-combat as out.
Plus it looks like this is purely for loot bags in WvW, so why don’t they just nerf loot lel?
yes make them require target then they will be completly useless!
9/10 times rush/bullsrush other gap closers will bug if target moves a little. So doing this will make mobility skills insta death button.
If you gap close at someone, you’re still closing the gap even if the damage doesn’t land. I’d rather have Warrior GS 5 hardly hit me but still close the gap with me, instead of the warrior using it to escape from a fight all the time.
Yes you would like that but now look at it from the warrior prospective. We would actually like our skills to hit and do what they were meant to do. We would not like our skill to run to you then hold us in place or make us run a wierd buggy circle around you then hit the air way away from your direction.
I didn’t expect this from you AD guys. Come on you guise. I know mobility skill get used the wrong way but the people that use em to kite or get some distance to heal then come back in don’t deserve this. Sure there are trolls that just run and keep on running but they arn’t worth the bother to chace in wvw as kills have no real contribution to wvw unless you are taking something and need to kill people in the way.
Making these skills require targets will only dumb down the game more.
Btw if this did go through im pretty sure ppl will target the various random mobs in wvw and keep doing what you shouldn’t be bothering with which is running. After that I think you will put up a ‘’remove mobs from wvw’’ Then you will remember wait I needed those things to stack sigils… Then comes the ‘’Bring back mobs to wvw’’ thread and this is why we cant have nice things.
Sry, I’m a Guardian. I’m so used to things not hitting I just assume everyone elses attacks don’t hit like they are supposed to either. Sword auto attack number 3, Sword 3, Scepter 1, Scepter 2, Scepter 3, Hammer 2 on elevation change, GS 5 on targets at max range, Staff 2 getting stuck in the ground and getting bugged so you can’t use it, Focus 4 not hitting for a TON of reasons, and Shield 5 not blocking projectiles.
But yea, Rush…gotta fix that, hehehe
Oh! You wanted to compare bugged skills? Well get ready good sir.
Earthshaker completly missing on minimal elivation, HB self intterupt, rush missing most of the time, Flurry self cancel makes you stand there like a kitten and not be able to do anything, bulls charge leaving you infront of target or shooting through or just not doing anything and takes you to target to be a free kill, Bolas i dont think i need to say much for bolas, GS 3 missing some hits for no good reason, Blade trail isnt a normal projectile and can get bugged very easily as it hovers, evi sometimes dosent leap all the way and stops the skill way too early and other times it goes way over the said range, Signet of rage slowing movment speed when used sometime for no real reason(slower then walking), Sword 2 makes you do some random circle when landing by someone at a tiny elevation, Rifle butt missing most the time even when you are looking straight at the person, Stomp going on full CD if accidentally interrupted, gs 3 sometimes if you use it while in another skill and you use it to the right it goes to the left, mobile strikes not so mobile, shield bash completely missing if target moves closely to your left or right. Those are the ones I can think of atm.
You don’t know the plague warriors have with bugged skills that never seen the light of day since release.
But why should gap closers and escape mechanisms not be rolled into one?
Because it allows professions not meant to escape to do so, or professions not meant to close gaps to overwrite that weakness.
Dark Path is a good example of a “gap closer” -it doesn’t work without a target, and has associated damage and effects, so its a fairly bad escape in most situations (critters aside), and is best used for offense.
Blink is good examples of an escape mechanism, as all it does is let you move around and avoid damage without hampering your foe, so it has no direct offensive applications.
“Because it allows professions not meant to escape to do so”
According to you. I don’t remember seeing anywhere that anet has said gap closers shouldn’t be used for escape.
And don’t bother bringing up Elementalists. Anet never said why they chose to nerf rtl (as far as I know anyways) so any reasons as to why that happened is just speculation at best.
If a gap closer can be used to further remove risk vs reward choices made IN combat then thats terrible design.
If you use a gap closer in combat to get closer to another target instead of the one beating your kitten to avoid damage, thats a risk vs reward choice and is smart design.
How come this is so difficult to understand? Are you guys really wanting all counter play and risk vs reward removed from this game?
Removed? I’m confused. I’m guessing we’re mostly talking about warriors here and warriors mobility hasn’t changed since the head start weekend.
Though I could mistaken and you have something else in mind. That’s beside the point, what exactly is being removed when arguing for nothing to change vs nerfing skills?
If anything you are the one who is asking for something to be removed.
LOL. If a warrior jumps into a fight knowing that at any moment he can swap to GS for burst then hit the 3/5 combo and yolo out of there…thats not risk vs reward. Theres hardly any risk and great reward. So thats what I’m talking about. Its this kind of thing that needs to be fixed, not the actual ability.
For instance, that scenario I just described. If the warrior had to use 5 towards another target he’d have to find one outside the fight, or a target on the other side of the fight away from the incoming damage. Do you see how much more interesting that gameplay is? Not only for the warrior, but the other people in the fight? It requires situational awareness =P
Im glad you arnt against thieves because its not like they come in to burst then gtfo. Totaly a war thing. I mean ive never seen a mesmer come in for a burst then invis/blink outta there like no ones business. Or an ele going in for burst rotation then FGS out of there. Oh btw these people are probably all berserkers and can be killed within a second or two and before they even get to their targets might i add.
What you are trying to do is not put in the effort to go after someone because you just want people to line up and be fed to you am I right? If someone runs then let em run because when they come back you already know what they will do so you will have a free kill. But instead here we are on the forums.
