Guild Wars 2

Arlette.9684:

sorrow.2364:

DeWolfe.2174:

My reaction to this is to ask, what is the goal? Is it to put Warriors back into the bad spot they were last year? I don’t see Warriors face rolling matches left and right. If anything HS needs to have a buff to it’s scaling with healing power. Make putting points into healing useful!

No.
HS needs the base heal to be extremely nerfed and the Healing Power scaling buffed.

Healing Signet is not the only thing holding warriors up from where they were last year.

This, nerf the signet, give it some good scaling with healing power so that if Warrior runs cleric gear they get that much hell why not even a little higher HPS from it and end the days of the Half Zerker geared warriors with better sustain than a full support bunker.

Also while we’re at it, what other class has a 5k auto attack? Anyone? Hmm? hmmm? No?

Dat 5k AA

You want all warriors running clerics? Why do I feel like I’m in a solo q right now?

Phaeton.9582:

Arlette.9684:

sorrow.2364:

DeWolfe.2174:

My reaction to this is to ask, what is the goal? Is it to put Warriors back into the bad spot they were last year? I don’t see Warriors face rolling matches left and right. If anything HS needs to have a buff to it’s scaling with healing power. Make putting points into healing useful!

No.
HS needs the base heal to be extremely nerfed and the Healing Power scaling buffed.

Healing Signet is not the only thing holding warriors up from where they were last year.

This, nerf the signet, give it some good scaling with healing power so that if Warrior runs cleric gear they get that much hell why not even a little higher HPS from it and end the days of the Half Zerker geared warriors with better sustain than a full support bunker.

Also while we’re at it, what other class has a 5k auto attack? Anyone? Hmm? hmmm? No?

Dat 5k AA

You want all warriors running clerics? Why do I feel like I’m in a solo q right now?

I get his mindset easily. No other class can have that much power, sustain, etc. without speccing for it. Warriors however, can get all the sustain they’ll ever need to make them unkillable from just 20 points in a single traitline and the Healing Signet.

Some suggestions to active heal:

1 – Heal yourself and nearby allies.
2 – Heal yourself and evade next 1, 2 or 3 attacks (adrenaline lv).
3 – Heal yourself (or do not heal) and Mark 1 foe (or +) for 3, 4 or 5 seconds (may scale with adrenaline level). THE MARK: All health gain is converted in damage.
4 – Heal yourself (or do not heal) and reflect (or copy) next 1, 2 or 3 attacks (obs: reflect damage and additional effects such conditions, cc, etc… Are like the warrior itself was used the respective skill).
5 – Mark yourself (or/and nearby allies) 3, 4 or 4 seconds according adrenaline level, and heal 10%, 20% or 30% of all hp (all health, including that given by the mark). THE MARK: increase the total health in 10%, 20% or 30% according adrenaline level.

More ideas later

How about making the active something like Last Stand that warriors in wow had?

Nerf the passive a bit, and then have this as signet active:

- Increases your maximum health by 33% for 10 seconds. Your current health percentage stays the same. Gained health is lost when duration runs out (to a minimum of 1 health).

This would give the option to use the signet active before big burst damage is incoming preemptively for the max health boost, or use it when low on health to buy 10 seconds with a huge burst heal that is only temporary and locks them out of the passive hot for 16 seconds after.

Phaeton.9582:

Arlette.9684:

sorrow.2364:

DeWolfe.2174:

My reaction to this is to ask, what is the goal? Is it to put Warriors back into the bad spot they were last year? I don’t see Warriors face rolling matches left and right. If anything HS needs to have a buff to it’s scaling with healing power. Make putting points into healing useful!

No.
HS needs the base heal to be extremely nerfed and the Healing Power scaling buffed.

Healing Signet is not the only thing holding warriors up from where they were last year.

This, nerf the signet, give it some good scaling with healing power so that if Warrior runs cleric gear they get that much hell why not even a little higher HPS from it and end the days of the Half Zerker geared warriors with better sustain than a full support bunker.

Also while we’re at it, what other class has a 5k auto attack? Anyone? Hmm? hmmm? No?

Dat 5k AA

You want all warriors running clerics? Why do I feel like I’m in a solo q right now?

I was refering to 5k triple chops

Its not hard to balance the signet.

Let it work with adrenaline and give a bonus when activate the signet.

0 adrenaline 250 hps
1 adrenaline 300 hps
2 adrenaline 350 hps
3 adrenaline 400 hps

What this does:
Someone who is always using burst skills will have less healing (you do damage you have less sustain). This also work the other way, If someone is attaking the warrior, he is refiling the warrior adrenaline (assuming he is using cleansing ire) and gives sustain to the warrior when he needs the sustain.

Now the active part: The heal could stay the same if the active is good enough. My sugestions:

1) Halve the cooldown of the stances. (This means if a warrior use a stance and want that stance as soon as possible he will use the signet right away, leaving him without the passive efect of HS for about 16/20 seconds.)

2) Recharge of physical skills.

3) Recharge of banners (This would be very usefful when using Battle Standard (only one banner of each kind can give the bonus)).

4) Recharge all shouts (will make the warrior to make a choice if he want the passive healing or he want the heal+clean condition from shouts)

5) Recharge of weapons skills (with this if the warrior choose to make damage, he will loose sustain.

6) Recharge of the elite skill. (More usefull with Battle Standard)

7) Active part: Increase the casting time: While casting the signet, make it to reflect the damage to the source. The heal remains the same. (This will make the warrior to choose to activate the signet if he can predict a burst from one enemy player. The enemy player can see the animation and choose not to attack.

As soon i get more ideias i will post them here.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Its not hard to balance the signet.

Let it work with adrenaline and give a bonus when activate the signet.

0 adrenaline 250 hps
1 adrenaline 300 hps
2 adrenaline 350 hps
3 adrenaline 400 hps

What this does:
Someone who is always using burst skills will have less healing (you do damage you have less sustain). This also work the other way, If someone is attaking the warrior, he is refiling the warrior adrenaline (assuming he is using cleansing ire) and gives sustain to the warrior when he needs the sustain.

Now the active part: The heal could stay the same if the active is good enough. My sugestions:

1) Halve the cooldown of the stances. (This means if a warrior use a stance and want that stance as soon as possible he will use the signet right away, leaving him without the passive efect of HS for about 16/20 seconds.)

2) Recharge of physical skills.

3) Recharge of banners (This would be very usefful when using Battle Standard (only one banner of each kind can give the bonus)).

4) Recharge all shouts (will make the warrior to make a choice if he want the passive healing or he want the heal+clean condition from shouts)

5) Recharge of weapons skills (with this if the warrior choose to make damage, he will loose sustain.

6) Recharge of the elite skill. (More usefull with Battle Standard)

7) Active part: Increase the casting time: While casting the signet, make it to reflect the damage to the source. The heal remains the same. (This will make the warrior to choose to activate the signet if he can predict a burst from one enemy player. The enemy player can see the animation and choose not to attack.

As soon i get more ideias i will post them here.

Oh please, adrenaline fills up so quick it’s not even funny.

Phaeton.9582:

Flat out nerfing warrior HS will drive us into a condi meta.

The condi meta been around since the awful Dhuumfire update.
The only reasons why Warriors were unaffected was because they had everything, powerful tankiness, CC, damage, condition removal in a meta ruled by glass cannon condition pressure.
The Hambow didn’t keep the condition meta in check, it just made it worse! The combination of the Hambows CC, it allowed condition classes go full glass and deal ranged condition damage that would make a glass staff elementalist jaw drop.
Lets not forget the Stun meta, once again, it only aided the glass necromancer/engineer.

Nova Stiker

---

The changes I would do to Healing Signet:

Healing Signet changes to the healing per tick:
Warriors Health | Healing per tick
100% – 75% | 225
75% – 50% | 325
50% – 25% | 425
25% – 0% | 525

Increased the recharge of Healing Signet to 40 seconds, increased the active heal by 25% and scaling with healing power to 1.75 instead of 0.5
________________________________________________

I posted this earlier in a deeper post on page 3.
In my opinion what makes this Signet so powerful is early fights (ignoring the fact having so many traits and utilities that aid Healing Signet) as the Signet completely shrugs off basic attacks, I don’t mind Dragon Claw being out-healed (I never use Dragon Claw to begin with) I do mind it being out-healed ALL the time.

As a main Elementalist I don’t need to spam 1 to win, I got 16 other skills more powerful.
While all other classes (except engineer) have to rely on their basic attack to keep their pressure going.
_______________________________________________________________
People keep suggesting met conditions and having it healing 400 health per second on the highest met condition and making the met condition easy to lose (max adrenaline, high health). Guys, seriously, that would KILL the Signet.

I know you hate it giving a constant heal of 400 health a second because you lose to Warriors a lot(?). I main an Elementalist, I stomp Warriors all the time so I’m not sure why the hate towards this one skill.
I wouldn’t mind it healing 550 health a second as long as the Warriors life span only sees it 25% of the time.
________________________________________________________________
About my suggestion, when you crunch the overall numbers, the healing per tick is nerfed by ONLY 25 health per a second.
But it can be seen as a stronger nerf if 50% of the Warriors life span loses 175-75 heal per a second.
Just move the numbers around, don’t freaking strip it so hard.

It’s a brainless heal. It requires no skill, it doesn’t require the player to do ANYTHING. Why should it be on-par or BETTER (which is at the moment) than the other options?

Nerf Healing Signet or turn it into an interesting heal. It’s current design concept is bad.

Arlette.9684:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Its not hard to balance the signet.

Let it work with adrenaline and give a bonus when activate the signet.

0 adrenaline 250 hps
1 adrenaline 300 hps
2 adrenaline 350 hps
3 adrenaline 400 hps

What this does:
Someone who is always using burst skills will have less healing (you do damage you have less sustain). This also work the other way, If someone is attaking the warrior, he is refiling the warrior adrenaline (assuming he is using cleansing ire) and gives sustain to the warrior when he needs the sustain.

Now the active part: The heal could stay the same if the active is good enough. My sugestions:

1) Halve the cooldown of the stances. (This means if a warrior use a stance and want that stance as soon as possible he will use the signet right away, leaving him without the passive efect of HS for about 16/20 seconds.)

2) Recharge of physical skills.

3) Recharge of banners (This would be very usefful when using Battle Standard (only one banner of each kind can give the bonus)).

4) Recharge all shouts (will make the warrior to make a choice if he want the passive healing or he want the heal+clean condition from shouts)

5) Recharge of weapons skills (with this if the warrior choose to make damage, he will loose sustain.

6) Recharge of the elite skill. (More usefull with Battle Standard)

7) Active part: Increase the casting time: While casting the signet, make it to reflect the damage to the source. The heal remains the same. (This will make the warrior to choose to activate the signet if he can predict a burst from one enemy player. The enemy player can see the animation and choose not to attack.

As soon i get more ideias i will post them here.

Oh please, adrenaline fills up so quick it’s not even funny.

It fills up so quick because of cleansing ire. And cleansing ire gives 1 adrenaline for each hit the warrior takes, so it will work great on points where everybody drop wells, bombs, traps, multi hit fields (Fire and forget skills). It works great against AI builds such as MM Necros, spirit rangers and mesmers. It looses potential on 1v1 fights.

Other builds without Cleansing Ire would also have the sustain droped.

I´m not seing your problem.

Talked about this specific issue already in the warrior forums but…meh whatever.

The issue is not just Healing Signet, it’s the only viable heal we have that matches our health pool.

Healing Surge is still a bit low even at stage three heal. I believe after conversing on the other thread having the burst heal go up an additional 10% across the board flat makes it quite viable as a burst heal to replace the sustain heal that would be healing signet if it were nerfed to 315 / second.

At that same time, the Healing Surge effect is the only heal in the game that PUNISHES for playing the normal warrior build. Warrior Burst is one of the main mechanics behind every build, and having our heal impacted negatively every time we do so is just bad design. Healing Surge should synergize with and not conflict with the profession. Ergo I promoted a prospect of removing that effect all together and making it just like Signet of Rage’s passive in combat, generating adrenaline so that if you do decide to use the buffed Healing Surge you lose that passive for thirty seconds. Ergo a ‘Trade-off’ instead of a punishment.

Mending is outclassed by recent condition defense buffs to the Warrior traits and utilities (Dogged March, Cleansing Ire, New Berserker Stance). Its heal is also low as well, yet I don’t envision it as a burst heal like Healing Surge. I proposed in that previous thread to make Mending an ‘in-between’ burst heal and sustained heal with a nice condition immunity. Plainly speaking (THE NUMBERS CAN CHANGE, just approximations.) Mending flat heals 6k, applies regeneration for 8 seconds (like another 2k life over that) and provides four seconds condition immunity to POISON ONLY. “Why poison?” Why not? Makes the heal unique, a literal band-aid heal and unlike the other two heals, provides protection against the healing counter.

Defiant Stance…is really obvious. I don’t know how to deal with it yet.

What I noticed last night, and made me wonder was, whenever my HP drops bellow a certain point I’d start regenerating like mad and people would attack me and my HP would go up instead of down. Any thoughts? Is it just the healing signet that’s the problem or the healing signet in combination with something else?

Arlette.9684:

What I noticed last night, and made me wonder was, whenever my HP drops bellow a certain point I’d start regenerating like mad and people would attack me and my HP would go up instead of down. Any thoughts? Is it just the healing signet that’s the problem or the healing signet in combination with something else?

I play a warrior as my main, and have been doing so since the betas. Never have I had my HP begin increasing because of other characters attacking me. Maybe you should stop using those third party programs…

Arlette.9684:

What I noticed last night, and made me wonder was, whenever my HP drops bellow a certain point I’d start regenerating like mad and people would attack me and my HP would go up instead of down. Any thoughts? Is it just the healing signet that’s the problem or the healing signet in combination with something else?

That’s probably you subconsciously playing to survive when you reach a lower health. It also might be because as your health goes down, typically, so does your opponent’s, and that puts more pressure on him/her to play defensively as well. You also have to consider the effects of Endure Pain, of course. I don’t know if there are any traits that give you, say, regeneration when you reach a certain health threshold off the top of my head.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Phaeton.9582:

Arlette.9684:

sorrow.2364:

DeWolfe.2174:

My reaction to this is to ask, what is the goal? Is it to put Warriors back into the bad spot they were last year? I don’t see Warriors face rolling matches left and right. If anything HS needs to have a buff to it’s scaling with healing power. Make putting points into healing useful!

No.
HS needs the base heal to be extremely nerfed and the Healing Power scaling buffed.

Healing Signet is not the only thing holding warriors up from where they were last year.

This, nerf the signet, give it some good scaling with healing power so that if Warrior runs cleric gear they get that much hell why not even a little higher HPS from it and end the days of the Half Zerker geared warriors with better sustain than a full support bunker.

Also while we’re at it, what other class has a 5k auto attack? Anyone? Hmm? hmmm? No?

Dat 5k AA

You want all warriors running clerics? Why do I feel like I’m in a solo q right now?

I get his mindset easily. No other class can have that much power, sustain, etc. without speccing for it. Warriors however, can get all the sustain they’ll ever need to make them unkillable from just 20 points in a single traitline and the Healing Signet.

But denying the option to go zerker is just another win for the condi meta…

Clerics on the other hand is countered by condi burst. I understand why people might think making HS scale better with HP would address the issue; it’s something I noticed as odd straight after the buff. The truth is though that if we want to leave the condi meta, then zerker builds need sustain.

The biggest problem with HS active IS the low cool down. I know it sounds wrong but having such a short cooldown prevents the active from having much effect for balance. 250-300 passive that scales much better with healing power and a 9.5k active on a 40 second cool down (32 with traits) is still a strong and simple healing skill.

Healing surge is currently to risky with variable amounts healed, I would make it always heal for the stage 2 amount and give it boons at stages 1-3. Stage 1- 5 seconds vigor, stage2- 5 seconds vigor and regen, stage 3- 5 seconds vigor, regen and protection.

Mending should be the group support heal skill. Remove up to 3 conditions on yourself and 4 allies in an area of 250, each condition removed grants 1 second of regeneration to yourself and those effected.

Defiant stance is too situational, increase base heal amount to 4.5k and reduce duration to 2 seconds.

Actually, HS given the current state of game of “Heavy Conditions”, it works as intended, that is giving the warrior the fake sustainability that needs. Since most of the players that have problem with the HS warrior are those who invest heavy on conditions and are lacking the necessary burst damage. Thus resulting to all the complaints about warrior.

Any change on the HS at the current meta will take away that sustainability away, thus resulting to a pre-HS warrior. A possible solution will be to cut off all sources of conditions by half and adjust HS accordingly. Also it will be wise to rework the stances so that the warrior can not have the benefits of two stances at the same time.

Regards

Seed

JonPeters.5630:

Also we will not greatly reduce it because it is giving Warriors a sense of sturdiness that we want their profession to have. Without strong heals, Warriors feel too much like everyone else.

That’s the point.
All classes should be able to do everything, but in their own different way.
As you say warriors stand away from all the others classes. Ofc they do! they are extremetly deadly and resilient in all situation also with a zerk armor. This should not happen imho, or at least give other classes double the damage they have to balance it and be at a war level. I cannot imagine a full zerk ele party do kholer/dwaya p4 arah without using mistform or arcane shield at least and die a lot taking double or triple the time than a full zerk war party. They do every pve content in this game better than any other class. This is a fact.
Go pvp, you can find some great wars tanking 3 people from all other classes, killing them 1 by 1, being immune to condition with sigil regen build, and having a zerk armor. This is just not right.
Seriously if you allow me to kindly ask, why you are so stuck with the idea that war must be the best class ever?

sorrow.2364:

JonPeters.5630:

The biggest problem is IMO is actually the active heal. If we reduce the passive without doing something to make the active useful, we are just creating a different problem. Truly the active on this skill right now is in the following place. When I see someone press it I think “No No No don’t do that!” We are discussion some options here so if you want this to be constructive give suggestions towards improving the active. Reducing the passive is easy to do but we will not do it without solving the other problem. Also we will not greatly reduce it because it is giving Warriors a sense of sturdiness that we want their profession to have. Without strong heals, Warriors feel too much like everyone else. Setting them apart with strong heals has been good for changing their playstyle feel, but we agree it needs some tweaks.

Jon

Sturdiness?

Let me get this straight, does that mean that warriors are dumb-proof and made to outclass any other profession in terms of survivability by design?

High telegraphed, lack of Ranged, AoE, teleports, instant attacks and AI compared to other classes.

I am glad the forum posters are the minority. You guys have posted mostly wrong information about this class when you are comparing and contrasting skills, but oh no you don’t like to be told that as seen from posts about this skill for the last 5 months now.
This skill isn’t as bad as 95% of the posts make it out to be, nor does a warrior exist that gets every single trait line.
Quit being upset your class doesn’t compare to them in versatility. Quit being mad the learning curve for this class is minimal. Start looking for suggestions to improve what you feel is lacking on your class, because its quite clear most of you don’t really play this class. I feel like this is just getting out of hand with the crying.

I would suggest looking at this post if you want to actually know things, https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Warrior-Mythbuster

posting my idea here in case jon missed it.
keep the passive, more or less
reduce the recharge time if activated near death.
stacks with signet mastery

Healing Signet
Passive: Grants regeneration.
Active: Heal yourself.

passive: (392 + 0.05 healing power) Heal per second
active Healing: 3,275 + 0.5 healing power

health below 75%, recharge -10%
health below 50%, recharge -20%, activation time 1.5 seconds
health below 25%, recharge -30%, activation time 2 seconds

for example, with signet mastery, activated at health below 25% total recharge time -50% so the recharge time would be 10 seconds instead.

but the activation time would be 2 seconds and not 1.25 seconds

I have no problem with warriors apart from their ability to run away.

Warriors are meant to be a brave profession yet in WvW the new play style is almost cowardly.

They behave in WvW exactly like d/d eles did before the RTL got nerfed.

They barrel in, try to burst you down and if they start losing the fight they run away so quickly (and with strong heals ticking away) that only another greatsword warrior can chase them.

You can try chill/cripple/immobilise to stop them running away but most of them are running Dogged March which makes them even harder to stop.

I would like to see:

nerf: Healing signet passive: only ticks when in 600 range of an enemy.
buff: Healing signet active: improved (to make using it worthwhile using).

Greatsword: Rush
- nerf: needs an enemy target to be selected (removes: running away)
- buff: cleave damage – 5 targets (adds: AoE burst to open a fight)
- buff: 3s cripple (adds: AoE CC to open a fight)

Sword: Savage Leap
- nerf: double cool down if used without a target selected (removes: running away, retains: in combat mobility)

Note: Neither skill has to hit a target, they only have to have a target selected.

Scryed.9423:

I am glad the forum posters are the minority. You guys have posted mostly wrong information about this class when you are comparing and contrasting skills, but oh no you don’t like to be told that as seen from posts about this skill for the last 5 months now.
This skill isn’t as bad as 95% of the posts make it out to be, nor does a warrior exist that gets every single trait line.
Quit being upset your class doesn’t compare to them in versatility. Quit being mad the learning curve for this class is minimal. Start looking for suggestions to improve what you feel is lacking on your class, because its quite clear most of you don’t really play this class. I feel like this is just getting out of hand with the crying.

I would suggest looking at this post if you want to actually know things, https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Warrior-Mythbuster

Wrong informations?
Jesus…

Juba.8406:

High telegraphed, lack of Ranged, AoE, teleports, instant attacks and AI compared to other classes.

High telegraphed? Probably some skills, but also any profession have high telegraphed skills as much as non-telegraphed skills.

Lack of Ranged? lol. Let’s talk about longbow and rifle then.

No AoE? Longbow has some of the best AoEs in the game. Earthshaker is, by far, the best AoE skill in the game second only to, perhaps, chaos storm.

Instant attacks? Well, not every professions have them too, but some 1/4s casting time attacks are dangerously close to be instant.

Now, let’s talk about the kittenload of immunities that warriors have on top of their high armor, high HP pool and high sustain even on berserker gear.

sorrow.2364:

Wrong informations?
Jesus…

Let’s talk numbers and factual information, not religion and mythology. I know you forum trolls love to just talk but uh, like the devs have been posting, it doesn’t look like the lack of information you present is getting the points across.
Sorry you and >x% of the game doesn’t like how easy 1 out of 8 classes is to learn and play. Having played this class prior to switching mains, its hardly as bad as you guys cry about and its mega annoying.
Factual information, by the way, consists of talking about builds that are not made up of 30/30/30/30/30( because all the posts here are crazy and make it look like none of you know how to play this class other than you look at these skills and get jealous because they are not as good as your favorite class) and reasons something isn’t working, usually with some kind of points or math to back up what you are trying to say. Maybe start there and try to have an actual discussion instead of making up ridiculous reasons and quoting people that serves no real purpose, other than saying you don’t like this wah wah wah, do things my way or I’m leaving!

I Havent read all these comments but here is my idea of adjusting the healing signet.
Remove the utility skill “endure pain” and make it the active of the healing signet with a little bit of healing. That way it is more interesting to use the active to counter burst damage.

Deimos I’m so glad you are not a game designer. Your changes are terrible and show just how uniformed some people can be and still be a regular poster on the forums.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

nerf: Healing signet passive: only ticks when in 600 range of an enemy.

Now this is an interesting nerf, leaving the numbers untouched but completely opening a way to counterplay the heal, since we will create some distance to disable the warrior’s healing when he needs, range kiting him, and the warrior needs to get up-close melee range to start healing.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Greatsword: Rush
- nerf: needs an enemy target to be selected (removes: running away)

Now this is not so interesting anymore, you are removing game’s depth and dumbing the combat for what exactly?

What if the warrior that is rushing without a target, if he passes through an enemy player he will stop using Rush? A better counterplay overall don’t you think? Warriors that need to use this to run away need to carefully aim, and we can think ahead of them and block their path.

Scryed.9423:

Let’s talk numbers and factual information, not religion and mythology. I know you forum trolls love to just talk but uh, like the devs have been posting, it doesn’t look like the lack of information you present is getting the points across.
Sorry you and >x% of the game doesn’t like how easy 1 out of 8 classes is to learn and play. Having played this class prior to switching mains, its hardly as bad as you guys cry about and its mega annoying.
Factual information, by the way, consists of talking about builds that are not made up of 30/30/30/30/30( because all the posts here are crazy and make it look like none of you know how to play this class other than you look at these skills and get jealous because they are not as good as your favorite class) and reasons something isn’t working, usually with some kind of points or math to back up what you are trying to say. Maybe start there and try to have an actual discussion instead of making up ridiculous reasons and quoting people that serves no real purpose, other than saying you don’t like this wah wah wah, do things my way or I’m leaving!

What about you, then?
You just linked a post in another subforum staying obviousness and arguable statements.
You did not pointed out what are the false statements said in this topic, neither you tried to counter argument them.

How do you expect people to take you seriously if you never bother to explain your point?

Since everyone is throwing out the crazy ideas…

3sec cast
10sec cd
Passive: 200 regen unscaling, 100 regen (.05 x healing power) per foe within 1200 range (max:5).
Active: heal yourself for 3000 (+.3 x healing power) and share upto 3 conditions and 3k damage received while activating to the nearest 3 foes within 1200 range.

There you go,
Sustainability
Reason to activate
Vulnerable to interupt

Cool down needs to increace with a big increase to amount healed. Then you can reduce to passive. And give it better scaling with healing power. 300 sec passive, 9k base active on a 40 sec cool down (32 with traits). As long as the cool down is so short the active will always have to be garbage.

Well, my idea of warriors is that they must get their stuffs when combat. If was for me i would remove all the signets from the warrior tree and add a new line of Physical skills (would divide them between offensive and defensive physical skills). Would move the passive effects of signets to the corresponding banners and the active effects of signets to some of the physical skills and/or to the shouts.

But going back to the Healing Signet problem. I think it should be more like the Thief’s Signet of Malice. Warriors should get their life from the blood of their enemies. They could keep the HoT effect but when active the signet (could be even bigger than now but only for a few seconds).

JonPeters.5630:

The biggest problem is IMO is actually the active heal. If we reduce the passive without doing something to make the active useful, we are just creating a different problem. Truly the active on this skill right now is in the following place. When I see someone press it I think “No No No don’t do that!” We are discussion some options here so if you want this to be constructive give suggestions towards improving the active. Reducing the passive is easy to do but we will not do it without solving the other problem. Also we will not greatly reduce it because it is giving Warriors a sense of sturdiness that we want their profession to have. Without strong heals, Warriors feel too much like everyone else. Setting them apart with strong heals has been good for changing their playstyle feel, but we agree it needs some tweaks.

Jon

i feel like u could make two types of changes about this signet.
First scenario: make the heal interruptable. something that gives u a regen for x seconds when u activate the skill (and maybe some increased dmg to deal with the fact that u have to stop attacking for a brief amount of time) removing the passive ability.
Second scenario: make a more clear difference between the active/passive effect. something that’s not heal/heal but something like TONSOFDMGS/heal.

making the passive to boost ur attack and the active to heal u is what i would like to see.

anyway, sry for my bad english :P

1st: the title says [PvP]. so pointing on things like berzerker armor is ridiculous as pvp armor doenst have any stats.

2nd: most suggestions to the passive are almost the same as before (400heal/s), therefore this is no nerf to an actual overpowered skill. if we leave it there and make the active reasonable to use, the skill would be even more overpowered.
JP said they are aware of the problem but need to gather good suggestions to the active before nerfing the passive.
not nerfing the passive but buffing the active would be a huge fail.

as i see it, the sustain needs to remain. so the overall heal should stay, but implementing possibility to counterplay and give the active a reason to be used.
therefore the passive needs a bit of tuning down (nerf) as well as the active needs it the other way (buff)

• passive: set to about 300-350 heal/s with a small scaling of healing power and an interval of 3 sec. so 900 to 1050 heal/tick at a maximum. maybe even scale it with adrenalin level.

• active: (reward the warrior for being risky) heal for X (4000?). the next 10sec 10% dmg output is mitigated into healing. get double amount for burstskills.
  - instant cast
  - counterplay by avoiding dmg (kiting)
  - 30 sec cooldown

the lower passive, the instant cast of the active plus the rewarding of staying in combat for larger heal would make a good change and it will be counterable due to blinds or cc

sorrow.2364:

DeWolfe.2174:

My reaction to this is to ask, what is the goal? Is it to put Warriors back into the bad spot they were last year? I don’t see Warriors face rolling matches left and right. If anything HS needs to have a buff to it’s scaling with healing power. Make putting points into healing useful!

No.
HS needs the base heal to be extremely nerfed and the Healing Power scaling buffed.

Healing Signet is not the only thing holding warriors up from where they were last year.

Yeah because warriors should be the only class that has to stacking healing power to have an effective heal in PVP. kitten warriors amirite?

Ahlen.7591:

sorrow.2364:

DeWolfe.2174:

My reaction to this is to ask, what is the goal? Is it to put Warriors back into the bad spot they were last year? I don’t see Warriors face rolling matches left and right. If anything HS needs to have a buff to it’s scaling with healing power. Make putting points into healing useful!

No.
HS needs the base heal to be extremely nerfed and the Healing Power scaling buffed.

Healing Signet is not the only thing holding warriors up from where they were last year.

Yeah because warriors should be the only class that has to stacking healing power to have an effective heal in PVP. kitten warriors amirite?

That on top of the active buff.
And, by the way, what you said is false.
Just look at ele/thief healing signet for a direct comparison. Without healing power, they are junk. And the active sucks too.

by definition warrior are NOT supose to be the healing beast they are now. Warrior is a damage based unit specialised around taking out opponent with devastating damage nuke before they themselves get killed. Warrior by default shouldnt be able to overheal damage but rather tank it via its huge pool of health the same way necromancer does wich is to say

1. big health
2. very little healing
3. heavy damage

Healing signet contradict those principe quite a lot.

kyubi.3620:

by definition warrior are NOT supose to be the healing beast they are now. Warrior is a damage based unit specialised around taking out opponent with devastating damage nuke before they themselves get killed. Warrior by default shouldnt be able to overheal damage but rather tank it via its huge pool of health the same way necromancer does wich is to say

1. big health
2. very little healing
3. heavy damage

Healing signet contradict those principe quite a lot.

Disagree intensely.

A warrior is sturdy and strong, where they can vary between becoming more sturdy and able to withstand high pressure and stand tall. Or they can turn very savage as you say, empower themselves (and maybe allies) to destroy their opponents.

Every profession should have varience in their builds, Healing Signet does have problems from a balancing standpoint, but simply nerfing it without offering an alternative heal in case warriors desire to actually use their healing skill for once will make them the most mediocre class.

Warriors are supposed to be strong without the need of magical buffs like protection or Aegis, they are the physical strength kings of any game.

Instead of just calling for Healing Signet nerfs, why make Surge, Mending and Defiant Stance more appealing as well? They are still in a bad state.

sorrow.2364:

Ahlen.7591:

sorrow.2364:

DeWolfe.2174:

My reaction to this is to ask, what is the goal? Is it to put Warriors back into the bad spot they were last year? I don’t see Warriors face rolling matches left and right. If anything HS needs to have a buff to it’s scaling with healing power. Make putting points into healing useful!

No.
HS needs the base heal to be extremely nerfed and the Healing Power scaling buffed.

Healing Signet is not the only thing holding warriors up from where they were last year.

Yeah because warriors should be the only class that has to stacking healing power to have an effective heal in PVP. kitten warriors amirite?

That on top of the active buff.
And, by the way, what you said is false.
Just look at ele/thief healing signet for a direct comparison. Without healing power, they are junk. And the active sucks too.

The thief heal signet actually can have a lot better output than Warrior heal signet.

The Ele signet is balanced in addition to their many sources of both protection and regeneration.

Dont’ try to compare these in a vacuum, you will fail and just look silly.

JonPeters.5630:

I was simply stating that the problem is we are not going to address the issues that the passive sustain is creating until we make the active use have a place in combat so even if it is not THE PROBLEM, it is the blocking issue.

Jon

Hello Jon,

I read the replies in this thread, including yours, and I’m concerned about several things.

First, I don’t view the Healing Signet is the problem, but a root cause of the problem. The PROBLEM is warriors are too powerful in sPvP, so much so that every team is required to run with at least 1 warrior, and double warrior teams are incredibly strong.

There are 5 slots on a team. Guardians are a “must-have” for 1 slot (that is a different topic), and warriors are a “must-have” for 1-2 slots, leaving only 2-3 slots left for the remaining 6 professions.

In short, the PROBLEM is warriors are so imbalanced, and have been now for 4 months, that they are keeping professions out of the meta.

By making one class so powerful that the meta requires 1-2 per team, you are indirectly forcing 1-2 professions out of the meta.

Now I understand the desire for a balanced solution to the problem. However it does not make sense to me to keep warriors in their current overpowered position even longer simply because a solution may run the risk of making warriors somewhat underpowered.

What is the risk/reward?

OPTION 1: Working on a more balanced solution

Reward: The warrior fix makes warriors more balanced and no longer a requirement on teams. Other professions can be mixed into the meta again.

Risk: The more time spent working on trying to balance the problem, the longer the problem persists, the fewer professions get to be played competitively and you run the risk of fewer people playing the game.

Risk: The warrior ‘fix’ is insuffient, leaving warriors in their current state even longer and keeping professions out of the meta even longer.

OPTION 2: Not waiting for the ‘optimal’ solution and putting out a fix sooner rather than later.

Reward: Will result in warriors no longer dominating the meta.

Risk: Makes warriors underpowered, pushing them out of the meta. This would result in upsetting people who play warrior. Would also allow 1-2 professions back into the meta.

At the end, it simply makes more sense to push a fix out sooner and run the risk of underpowering warriors (which you can later fix). The worst that would happen is you end up having a new meta with 1-2 new professions in the team that were not there previously.
If you wait and try to shoot for the balanced solution, the worst that could happen is you don’t really end up changing anything.

It is very very simple really. Decreace passive base, increase healing power coefficient. Decrease active recharge time, increace active amount and coefficient. The numbers can be worked out by the balance team, as they will be anyway.

Here is why you do the above:

Passive: healing power currently has little use on a warrior. This rewards a diversification of stats, and somwhat reduces sustain of builds who choose not to spec for it while rewarding those who do. Simple concept.

Active: the low cool down on this skill clashes with its passive nature. It ensures that the amount healed on use cannot be very strong, but a skill that already regenerates small amounts of health over time does not need a longer delayed active that takes up the same role. A long recharge can be justified because of traits and the addition of a passive effect. It also opens up the possibility for a large healing amount. This presents the warrior with a strategic decision as far as use as well.

Juba.8406:

lol

Healing signet alone is not enough to make warrior OP.

what make Warrior OP is the combined CC + AoE + Cleansing Ire +Stability + Healing Signet + adrenal health + max toughness.

which translates to ONE BUILD the Hambow.

the real question is how do you nerf the Hambow without sending the whole warrior class to Circus ?

dont forget the conditionclown, the same level of cheese. impale is op!#

honestly i think he is one of the only ppl realizing whats the problem. all skills and traits are fine in a nutshell, but together its unbalanced.

Ahlen.7591:

The thief heal signet actually can have a lot better output than Warrior heal signet.

The Ele signet is balanced in addition to their many sources of both protection and regeneration.

Dont’ try to compare these in a vacuum, you will fail and just look silly.

I’m not comparing them in vacuum.

They are, of course, different skills with different settings, but both of them needs healing power to have significant healing output, otherwise they are outclassed by other healing skills.

Healing Signet is the only signet which gives huge amounts of healing without the need of healing power at all to the point that stacking healing power is counter-productive and other healing skills are worse in any situation.

Stand The Wall.6987:

At least tone down the heal sig + adrenal health + banner regen combo. Going against a condi bunker warrior with those 3 makes me want to uninstall.

fought one of those in tpvp on my power necro the other day – bad times were had.

There is a reason warriors have not and will not get protection. Stop suggesting it because it wont happen. Throwing boons on the HS active isnt a balance either.

Halve the passive double the active.

sorrow.2364:

Ahlen.7591:

The thief heal signet actually can have a lot better output than Warrior heal signet.

The Ele signet is balanced in addition to their many sources of both protection and regeneration.

Dont’ try to compare these in a vacuum, you will fail and just look silly.

I’m not comparing them in vacuum.

They are, of course, different skills with different settings, but both of them needs healing power to have significant healing output, otherwise they are outclassed by other healing skills.

Healing Signet is the only signet which gives huge amounts of healing without the need of healing power at all to the point that stacking healing power is counter-productive and other healing skills are worse in any situation.

You say you aren’t comparing in a vacuum….and then you compare in a vacuum.

Make up your mind.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

I have no problem with warriors apart from their ability to run away.

Warriors are meant to be a brave profession yet in WvW the new play style is almost cowardly.

They behave in WvW exactly like d/d eles did before the RTL got nerfed.

They barrel in, try to burst you down and if they start losing the fight they run away so quickly (and with strong heals ticking away) that only another greatsword warrior can chase them.

You can try chill/cripple/immobilise to stop them running away but most of them are running Dogged March which makes them even harder to stop.

I would like to see:

nerf: Healing signet passive: only ticks when in 600 range of an enemy.
buff: Healing signet active: improved (to make using it worthwhile using).

Greatsword: Rush
- nerf: needs an enemy target to be selected (removes: running away)
- buff: cleave damage – 5 targets (adds: AoE burst to open a fight)
- buff: 3s cripple (adds: AoE CC to open a fight)

Sword: Savage Leap
- nerf: double cool down if used without a target selected (removes: running away, retains: in combat mobility)

Note: Neither skill has to hit a target, they only have to have a target selected.

I’m not ele player but what you illustrated about warrior is the exact reason why ele’s ride the lighting got nerfed. Warrior does the exact same thing ele did before the nerf, run away with skills you can’t catch up to and then heal up and re-engage.

What I want to know is why is that ok for warrior and not for ele? If anything it would make sense for ele seeing that they are a light armor/low hp class. But warrior is suppose to be in the front line. It makes no sense why the class has better escape mechanisms that ele.

A suggestion…

TL:DR
Healing Signet
Passive: Grants regeneration Every 3 seconds if damage is received.
Active: Heal yourself.

The Pros:
- Can keep the regeneration the same way its now. In fact, you could buff the Active.
- Warriors keep their clear advantage at the beginning of the fights. Which I find it’s good and it fits well with the class

The Cons
- Passive Regeneration won’t gonna work when the Warrior is invulnerable to damage, or running away.

Long Version

My suggestion has the objective of keeping the HS strong points, at the same time giving HS Warriors a clear weak point.

With the new passive effect, warriors that don’t receive a certain amount of damage every 3 seconds the Regen effect simply won’t gonna work. That said, in fight, warriors will have the exact same sustain they have now.

The first difference is that, warriors won’t be able to regen while running. Since if they don’t receive at least 1 damage every 3 seconds, the regen won’t gonna work.

Second difference is the reason of the change itself. The trait Defy Pain, Endure Pain and the shield skill Shield Stance.
Meanwhile those skills are active (as well as rolls and anything that may give the warrior invulnerable) the Passive effect of HS won’t trigger. That’s because the warrior won’t receive damage meanwhile using those skills.

On the other hand, any damage, including conditions, will proc the regen. So warriors can still use HS as sustain against ConD, since the regen will proc even if they have a single Bleed stack. This makes warriors have control of the skill, choosing when to heal and when they shouldn’t clean their conditions.

This way, warriors will keep their advantage at the beginning of the fight, like other people complained above (which for me, its a good point for warriors), but it will fix the “miracle comeback” every time they reach 25% HP. Since they have access to almost 14 seconds of full invulnerability and regen free time (2 endure pains, Shield Stance and 2 Rolls).
Warriors with HS will be forced to think if they should thrown everything at the enemy to kill then, or if they should use the immunity to run away. Like any other class. This will also raise the usefulness of the other 2 heals, that will work naturally midfight.

That’s my suggestion.

1. Reduce signet passive heal by 14%; leave healing coefficient the same.
2. Applies Regeneration for 6s and removes Poison condition on activation.
3. Change Signet Mastery to apply blocking during Signet activations (in addition to 20% recharge reduction).

My suggestion, from my balance document:

Decrease Passive by 1k/20s base, but increase Healing Power scaling: 342 (0.08), down from 392 (0.05)
Increase Active by 1k/20s untraited, slight increase in Healing Power scaling: 4275 (0.6), up from 3275 (0.5)

The goal is to nerf the heal for DPS builds, while keeping it about the same for bunker builds. Also, make the active good enough so that it makes more sense to activate when getting low on health.

Passive applies only while taking direct damage.
Anyone?

cymerdown.4103:

My suggestion, from my balance document:

Decrease Passive by 1k/20s base, but increase Healing Power scaling: 342 (0.08), down from 392 (0.05)
Increase Active by 1k/20s untraited, slight increase in Healing Power scaling: 4275 (0.6), up from 3275 (0.5)

The goal is to nerf the heal for DPS builds, while keeping it about the same for bunker builds. Also, make the active good enough so that it makes more sense to activate when getting low on health.

There ya go Jon, a solution that meets your criteria.

My only possible addition; to make the active more attractive, reduce the cast time to 1 second.