Guild Wars 2

interesting suggestion, but what if your adrenaline is full?

and you can’t put enough pressure on a warrior? not even if u just put poison on him?

and also the base heal of HS is 392, but that is just about 400hps.
If u have a ranged weapon and u see him take out a mace/hammer, try to keep your distance and kite. or improvise

I also echo the desire to reduce the heal per second for this ability. I am fine with it scaling with adrenaline to say 75% of current heals per second.

that forces the warrior to use their f1 or have much better sustain.

I have a warrior, and I think the scaling is poor. IMO, that’s where the problem is: with NO healing power, it’s still 392 HP/sec. With max healing power, it’s only like 430 HP/sec or something.

They should change it so that it starts off at ~300 HP/sec and give better scaling so that warriors have to actually spec into healing power.

I wouldn’t reduce the scaling but actually increase it and lower base HP regen in exchange. Healing Signet should heal less than it currently does with additional Healing Power, but be able to heal slightly more (say, 500 HP/s with 1k Healing Power).

There should be an effort to make Warriors need to decide between damage, tankiness, healing and possibly mobility.

Tim.6450:

interesting suggestion, but what if your adrenaline is full?

Still heals. The idea is that the heal could stay where it is, provided the warrior is whacking away at people, and finishers (since they drain adrenaline) would not heal. That prevents the 3 second skullcrack == 1200+heal and similar things.

• It also means that warriors need to think more carefully about when to disengage as opposed to waiting until he/she is super-low on hp then boogie out.

• An interesting side-effect could be that multi-hit attacks (like a full Hundred Blades) could result in a burst heal.

• It also means that dodges, stuns and interrupts and LOS would counter the passive healing

I think reducing the base heal and having it scale well with +healing would work as well. However, I still think there needs to be more counterplay to the heal. And no, I don’t consider poison to be counterplay to HS.

I think that 400hp/sec healing should be attainable through either sacrifice (i.e. healing gear) or through some concerted effort (e.g. continually doling out damage).

I agree healing signet needs toning down, and if possible, by a means more interesting than just cutting the numbers. However I don’t really like any of your proposals too much.

How about making the amount of passive healing scale with adrenaline level(makes sense thematically, more healing when more engaged into the fight, true warrior style). Keep current regen as max adrenaline regen.

This would further reinforce bursty front-loaded damage as a counter to healing signet, while still shining in drawn-out fights.

Slow them finally down !!

Personally, i would simply like to see Rush (GS #5) removed and replaced by something non-moving (or with a small movement to keep Mobile Strikes’ power level). It misses most of the time anyway and is mainly used for moving around in a way that shouldn’t be possible for a heavy armor class.

Maybe move Arcing Strike (current F1) zu #5, replace it with Hundred Blades and give warriors a new #2 skill, maybe something that applies bleeding. If so, the current HB damage should be for full adrenaline as it already deals 2x the damage of eviscerate (although it is unlikely to fully hit).

Thedenofsin.7340:

Tim.6450:

interesting suggestion, but what if your adrenaline is full?

Still heals. The idea is that the heal could stay where it is, provided the warrior is whacking away at people, and finishers (since they drain adrenaline) would not heal. That prevents the 3 second skullcrack == 1200+heal and similar things.

• It also means that warriors need to think more carefully about when to disengage as opposed to waiting until he/she is super-low on hp then boogie out.

• An interesting side-effect could be that multi-hit attacks (like a full Hundred Blades) could result in a burst heal.

• It also means that dodges, stuns and interrupts and LOS would counter the passive healing

I think reducing the base heal and having it scale well with +healing would work as well. However, I still think there needs to be more counterplay to the heal. And no, I don’t consider poison to be counterplay to HS.

I think that 400hp/sec healing should be attainable through either sacrifice (i.e. healing gear) or through some concerted effort (e.g. continually doling out damage).

Sounds like you want the signet to be the new guardian heal but always on. I think your suggestion makes it that nobody would use it.

It would be very stupid to completely rework a heal that 80% of warriors use and is a good part of what keeps warriors viable in tPvP. That my friend is called knee-jerk balancing and drastically changing it so much can come with unintended consequences.

Besides, Healing Signet doesn’t need a major overhaul. All A-Net needs to do is lower the regen from it about 50-60 points or so and make the active worth using, or perhaps make it scale differently. That is all. Tired of people trying to reinvent the wheel in what they perceive is balance when simplicity is the better answer in this case.

I just want to say I support the idea of adrenaline levels affecting healing signets regen strength. It would make burst skills much less of a “use when at full adrenaline”. To anyone using Healing Signet anyways. I don’t use it on my warrior because I am always pure damage and find Healing Signet to be worthless. But that is just my opinion.

killahmayne.9518:

It would be very stupid to completely rework a heal that 80% of warriors use and is a good part of what keeps warriors viable in tPvP. That my friend is called knee-jerk balancing and drastically changing it so much can come with unintended consequences.

Besides, Healing Signet doesn’t need a major overhaul. All A-Net needs to do is lower the regen from it about 50-60 points or so and make the active worth using, or perhaps make it scale differently. That is all. Tired of people trying to reinvent the wheel in what they perceive is balance when simplicity is the better answer in this case.

You might remember that Berserkers stance was changed. Not really any unintended consequences there. The only consequence is that people cannot unload all of their conditions and expect someone to go down now.

oZii.2864:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Tim.6450:

interesting suggestion, but what if your adrenaline is full?

Still heals. The idea is that the heal could stay where it is, provided the warrior is whacking away at people, and finishers (since they drain adrenaline) would not heal. That prevents the 3 second skullcrack == 1200+heal and similar things.

• It also means that warriors need to think more carefully about when to disengage as opposed to waiting until he/she is super-low on hp then boogie out.

• An interesting side-effect could be that multi-hit attacks (like a full Hundred Blades) could result in a burst heal.

• It also means that dodges, stuns and interrupts and LOS would counter the passive healing

I think reducing the base heal and having it scale well with +healing would work as well. However, I still think there needs to be more counterplay to the heal. And no, I don’t consider poison to be counterplay to HS.

I think that 400hp/sec healing should be attainable through either sacrifice (i.e. healing gear) or through some concerted effort (e.g. continually doling out damage).

Sounds like you want the signet to be the new guardian heal but always on. I think your suggestion makes it that nobody would use it.

That was simply a suggestion. Don’t get hung up on a solution, just the problem. For the sake of clarity, the suggestion I offered implied the signet would still have an active component as well.

Thedenofsin.7340:

That was simply a suggestion. Don’t get hung up on a solution, just the problem. For the sake of clarity, the suggestion I offered implied the signet would still have an active component as well.

Ahh ok my apologies.

I am going to quote from the July 23rd, 2013 update notes:

AidanTaylor.3872:

• Healing Signet (Passive): Reworked the formula that this passive heal uses. At level 80, this skill goes from 392 healing per 3 seconds to 467 healing per 3 seconds with 1500 healing power.

To me it looks like they have designed it a bit differently (basically warriors should have 1/3 of the healing from the signet passive) and maybe even forgot about it since then?
Anyway, you can read it here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-July-23rd-2013

oZii.2864

That was a typo Jon P came into Warrior forums and stated it was a typo in the notes.

Turns out it was a typo. Well I hope they fix typos like that in the future.

Edit: then it also would be consistent with other passive health regenerations such as Regeneration (boon), Backpack Regenerator (engineer trait), and still stronger than Virtue of Resolve (guardian), Soothing Mist (elementalist).

Howell Qagan.9752:

I am going to quote from the July 23rd, 2013 update notes:

AidanTaylor.3872:

• Healing Signet (Passive): Reworked the formula that this passive heal uses. At level 80, this skill goes from 392 healing per 3 seconds to 467 healing per 3 seconds with 1500 healing power.

To me it looks like they have designed it a bit differently (basically warriors should have 1/3 of the healing from the signet passive) and maybe even forgot about it since then?
Anyway, you can read it here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-July-23rd-2013

That was a typo Jon P came into Warrior forums and stated it was a typo in the notes.

I honestly don’t feel like the issue is with the Signet. If a Warrior has only the signet they’re still a pretty easy kill to most everyone in the game. Even if a Warrior has both the signet and adrenal health, they don’t hold up all that well.

Things don’t really start pushing the envelope until you start factoring in things like Endure Pain, Defy Pain, Berserker Stance, Shield Stance, and the Warrior’s mobility advantage.

Both the Guardian and Elementalist bunker down better than the Warrior imo but we don’t see any complaints about their passive healing, protection spam, etc.

If we’re really going to stick with the approach that the healing is the issue, what about just moving Adrenal Health? While Adrenal Health makes sense where it is from a logical standpoint, perhaps moving it to a different tree for the sake of balance may resolve a lot of the problems. If it weren’t in the defense tree, but rather a tree like Strength you’d remove it from the current meta almost entirely in both sPvP and WvW.

Atherakhia.4086:

Both the Guardian and Elementalist bunker down better than the Warrior imo but we don’t see any complaints about their passive healing, protection spam, etc.

thats because if we bunker, our damage is kitten poor. Warriors can run this as well as insane cc/damage with weapons such as hambow and condi (s/s lb)

Atherakhia.4086:

I honestly don’t feel like the issue is with the Signet. If a Warrior has only the signet they’re still a pretty easy kill to most everyone in the game. Even if a Warrior has both the signet and adrenal health, they don’t hold up all that well.

Things don’t really start pushing the envelope until you start factoring in things like Endure Pain, Defy Pain, Berserker Stance, Shield Stance, and the Warrior’s mobility advantage.

Both the Guardian and Elementalist bunker down better than the Warrior imo but we don’t see any complaints about their passive healing, protection spam, etc.

If we’re really going to stick with the approach that the healing is the issue, what about just moving Adrenal Health? While Adrenal Health makes sense where it is from a logical standpoint, perhaps moving it to a different tree for the sake of balance may resolve a lot of the problems. If it weren’t in the defense tree, but rather a tree like Strength you’d remove it from the current meta almost entirely in both sPvP and WvW.

because Guardian and Ele dont do Damage anymore when have this heals – Warrior still do alot Damage while even is imun (some seconds) for counterplay from most Classes

NinjaBreadMan.8926:

Atherakhia.4086:

Both the Guardian and Elementalist bunker down better than the Warrior imo but we don’t see any complaints about their passive healing, protection spam, etc.

thats because if we bunker, our damage is kitten poor. Warriors can run this as well as insane cc/damage with weapons such as hambow and condi (s/s lb)

I will agree that the Warrior does provide a lot when compared to other classes. But in the grand scheme of things would you honestly place the Warrior in a league of their own? They’re really not that much more powerful overall than a Thief, Guardian, or Necromancer when you look at their role in a group.

What is our baseline for class balance in this game? Just because a Ranger provides next to nothing to a group doesn’t necessarily mean we should nerf Warriors, Guardians, and Necromancers down to their level.

As for conditions, that’s an entirely different animal and it would be silly to adjust any condition based class until a solution to conditions as a whole is looked into.

Romek.4201

because Guardian and Ele dont do Damage anymore when have this heals – Warrior still do alot Damage while even is imun (some seconds) for counterplay from most Classes

But with that being the case, do Elementalists have trouble beating a Warrior? They’re effectively the paper to a Warrior’s rock even in their current form.

I liked the idea I once read that the closer you are to an enemy, the more it heals you. Say like at X radius (considered close combat) it heals for the current amount. Then once you reach X radius (a bit further than close combat) the passive healing is reduced.

And so it continues to reduce so that a warrior that is kiting someone with longbow or far away from his target heals for about 50% less on his passive, than a warrior in the thick of the battle.

I think this is a lot better than just flatout nerfing it. I also want them to change the active so it does something else/more than just flatout healing yourself, it’s way too dull and useless.

For those who believe that healing signet is not unfairly powered, let’s take a look at the necromancer’s blood fiend, the blood fiend is minion that passively heals the player by attacking an enemy with low damage and can be sacrificied for a small heal. The skill is on a 20 second cooldown. Now since the necromancer has the same health pool as a warrior and the skills resemble each other very well, we can compare them: a fully traited blood fiend heals passively 321 h/s and it doesn’t scale with healing power in comparison with an untraited healing signet heals 392 h/s and can still scale with healing power. On top of that is itso that the blood fiend can be killed/stunned/blind/blocked/… while the healing signet just keeps going. How is that fair? The only advantage blood fiend has is that the active is 685 health better.

Tim.6450:

For those who believe that healing signet is not unfairly powered, let’s take a look at the necromancer’s blood fiend, the blood fiend is minion that passively heals the player by attacking an enemy with low damage and can be sacrificied for a small heal. The skill is on a 20 second cooldown. Now since the necromancer has the same health pool as a warrior and the skills resemble each other very well, we can compare them: a fully traited blood fiend heals passively 321 h/s and it doesn’t scale with healing power in comparison with an untraited healing signet heals 392 h/s and can still scale with healing power. On top of that is itso that the blood fiend can be killed/stunned/blind/blocked/… while the healing signet just keeps going. How is that fair? The only advantage blood fiend has is that the active is 685 health better.

While you’re right in some respect because all heals should probably be balanced overall, it’s difficult to compare skills between classes. Especially when you’re trying to compare a Ranged class to a melee class.

But lets look at another heal… troll ungent is effectively 340hps with a 1.2 coefficient. Signet is 392 with no coefficient and an activated 3275 with a .5 coefficient. So even if we were trying to balance heals around each other, you’re only looking at shaving 52 hps from the signet in this case.

So back to your original question on if this is fair or not, no. But is it not fair because the Warrior’s signet is overpowered? Or is it not fair because Blood Fiend is awful?

Atherakhia.4086:

But with that being the case, do Elementalists have trouble beating a Warrior? They’re effectively the paper to a Warrior’s rock even in their current form.

A hambow warrior is any Elementalists Rock+paper+Scissors. I am not for a super nerf to Warrior healing signet just that the base be brought down just a tad and scaling with healing power improved. There is a reason you can get away with 15 point investments into defense for adrenal health and still put points into damage.

In WvW/PvE this is much easier because of gear customization so if you where required to throw on a celestial piece or 2 it isn’t that bad. In tPvP/sPvP I can see this being a bit harder to balance. If you nerf it to much and improve scaling then healing signet becomes bunker only because of lesser customization there.

Constant passive healing should not exist in the game, it’s too easy, takes away all the skill for the player to manage their healing and for the enemy to interrupt or counter their healing. It also makes Shield Block, Endure Pain and simply running away for a bit into healing abilities.

Demanding that any enemy apply 100% uptime poison as the only way to counter this particular heal is unacceptable, 3 professions have no access to poison and 100% heal reduction is not an acceptable counter for good game-play.

The passive aspect of the skill should be changed to grant a heal when attacking.

Passive: Heal for 400 every time you use a weapon skill.
Active: Heal for 3750.

Ezrael.6859:

Constant passive healing should not exist in the game, it’s too easy, takes away all the skill for the player to manage their healing and for the enemy to interrupt or counter their healing. It also makes Shield Block, Endure Pain and simply running away for a bit into healing abilities.

Demanding that any enemy apply 100% uptime poison as the only way to counter this particular heal is unacceptable, 3 professions have no access to poison and 100% heal reduction is not an acceptable counter for good game-play.

The passive aspect of the skill should be changed to grant a heal when attacking.

Passive: Heal for 400 every time you use a weapon skill.
Active: Heal for 3750.

You want to turn it into Signet of Restoration like Elementalist which gets double punished by poison and confusion. I main Ele and SOR is my favorite heal but you do need alot of care when using it if condi engis or mesmers are around. Maybe this would balance it for warriors.

I think the OP has a solid suggestion overall.

I would just be happy to see ALL passive/AI based play in the game either nerfed or redesigned to be less passive.

While healing signet has the highest healing potential of all the three (not counting the new useless heal) warrior healing skills it is easy to counter a warrior using it.

Just applying poison severely reduces its healing output, add a stack of bleeding or two and the warrior is just breaking even, there is a reason why warriors running healing signet are just condimancers food, mending is way better against them and nerfing HS wouldn’t even let the most skilled warrior beat a necro if he gets caught running healing signet.

If you can’t apply conditions then you can exploit the other big weakness of HS: Burst. Warriors running HS are very vulnerable to burst due to its passive nature. It doesn’t provide any meaningful burst heal on demand since the active heal is pitiful. Just burst the warrior down and once he is low in hp he will remain low in hp. If he activates the signet the passive is gone allowing you to finish him and if he doesn’t you can just burst him again and he’s dead (or really even just your auto attack should deal more than 400 dmg if you are not traited for condi dmg).

So to be honest I don’t see how a skill with those big disadvantages can be OP, I think all three warrior heals have advantages and disadvantage. HS is a good skill yes but OP? No.
There is a reason not a single warrior used the skill before it was buffed, back then it was just useles. Right now it’s at a good spot and nerfing it would just make it useless again.

At least tone down the heal sig + adrenal health + banner regen combo. Going against a condi bunker warrior with those 3 makes me want to uninstall.

healing signet alone is extremely underwhelming, you almost can’t tell you have a healing skill equipt.
its only when you combine it with adrenal health (which also ups your healing power) that it becomes good, still many classes have similar heals,

i’ve been having a blast with an Unload, ricochet, SoM thief.
Unload hits 8 times over about 1 second, SoM heals for around 140 for each hit and each hit has a 50% chance to bounce, and that extra shot has a 50% chance to bounce, each of those extra bounces is another 140 heal, your screen fills with green numbers!

guardian signet heals for 9k+ on a 32sec CD (with trait) which works out to 281 per sec
thats not even counting the passive heal from their virtue

mesmers have the new signet which passively heals for a ton, pretty much healing signet for a class with stealth and AI.

i could go on to the health-regen you can stack on a ranger, or the endless heals you can spam as an engineer, but it’ll take too much time XD

currently it is

392 + 0.05 healing power

what if

300 + 0.15 healing power?

with 300 healing power from traits

it would be 345 health per second

1000 healing power from cleric amulet it would be

450 health per second

Ezrael.6859:

Constant passive healing should not exist in the game, it’s too easy, takes away all the skill for the player to manage their healing and for the enemy to interrupt or counter their healing. It also makes Shield Block, Endure Pain and simply running away for a bit into healing abilities.

Demanding that any enemy apply 100% uptime poison as the only way to counter this particular heal is unacceptable, 3 professions have no access to poison and 100% heal reduction is not an acceptable counter for good game-play.

The passive aspect of the skill should be changed to grant a heal when attacking.

Passive: Heal for 400 every time you use a weapon skill.
Active: Heal for 3750.

Exactly, it cant be right that the only way to counter this build is by applying poison.
the whole point of healing skills is to have a way to counter it (interupt/CC).

I actually kinda like healing signet. Having it stack with other heals and having my warrior buddies regening 1khp/s works great in wvw. and they dont have to have a drop of healing power to do it

Clivar.3176:

Ezrael.6859:

Constant passive healing should not exist in the game, it’s too easy, takes away all the skill for the player to manage their healing and for the enemy to interrupt or counter their healing. It also makes Shield Block, Endure Pain and simply running away for a bit into healing abilities.

Demanding that any enemy apply 100% uptime poison as the only way to counter this particular heal is unacceptable, 3 professions have no access to poison and 100% heal reduction is not an acceptable counter for good game-play.

The passive aspect of the skill should be changed to grant a heal when attacking.

Passive: Heal for 400 every time you use a weapon skill.
Active: Heal for 3750.

Exactly, it cant be right that the only way to counter this build is by applying poison.
the whole point of healing skills is to have a way to counter it (interupt/CC).

Applying poison doesn’t even work. Or, at least, is not a specific counter for Healing Signet.

At most, you might say that constant application of poison can deny one of the strongest things a warrior has: his sustain.

Said that, classes that can do this might have a hard time surviving against a warrior in a teamfight.

Clivar.3176:

Ezrael.6859:

Constant passive healing should not exist in the game, it’s too easy, takes away all the skill for the player to manage their healing and for the enemy to interrupt or counter their healing. It also makes Shield Block, Endure Pain and simply running away for a bit into healing abilities.

Demanding that any enemy apply 100% uptime poison as the only way to counter this particular heal is unacceptable, 3 professions have no access to poison and 100% heal reduction is not an acceptable counter for good game-play.

The passive aspect of the skill should be changed to grant a heal when attacking.

Passive: Heal for 400 every time you use a weapon skill.
Active: Heal for 3750.

Exactly, it cant be right that the only way to counter this build is by applying poison.
the whole point of healing skills is to have a way to counter it (interupt/CC).

why can’t it be right?
rocks, scissors, paper counters.

massive condition overload (necromancers, engineers) will render healing signet useless.

anyway, i wanna update my proposal.

currently it is 392 + 0.05 healing power
what if it is 300 + 0.20 healing power?

true berserker with 0 healing power
it would be 300 health per second (big shave from 392, less 92)

hammer warrior with 300 healing power from traits
it would be 360 health per second (medium shave from 407, less 47)

bunker with 1000 healing power from cleric amulet
it would be 500 health per second (small buff from 442, extra 58)

since when is sustain a warriors strongest attribute? No no you see thats a GUARDIAN your thinking of. See warriors are the ones that rip stuff to shreds. Or atleast thats how I THOUGHT things worked.

P.S. condition necros render EVERYTHING useless

Silhouette.5631:

since when is sustain a warriors strongest attribute? No no you see thats a GUARDIAN your thinking of. See warriors are the ones that rip stuff to shreds. Or atleast thats how I THOUGHT things worked.

P.S. condition necros render EVERYTHING useless

i dunno. i play warrior in sPvP and certainly dun feel godlike.

but these people, they kept on saying warriors are overpowered.
nerf this, nerf that. so now i gave up trying to convince them otherwise liao.

now i just wanna throw in my suggestion to shave healing signet so they dun neuter it completely.

Omg so im not the only one who thinks this is op, i switched to full zerk spec using my guardian with scepter hitting a warrior with this signet on and he was regaining health faster than i could dmg him.

BTW if you see someone who says it is not OP, it is PERFECT, we need the other healing skills to be as good as this one… then he is trolling (or play a warrior main).

Ok before this signet buff, warrior where poop on pvp we all lived that… This was an easy way out for Anet not having to rework the whole warrior.

Are we still discussing this? Anyone who thinks that heal signet is OP is ignorant of it’s downsides.

-Inability to counter burst or sudden damage.
-Especially weak to poison (Other heals only require poison to be removed for one second before healing, poison is essentially 100% effective against heal signet)

This combined with Warriors general lack of Blind/Protection (1 blind, 1 protection if heavily traited) makes healing signet really not OP.

Ahlen.7591:

Are we still discussing this? Anyone who thinks that heal signet is OP is ignorant of it’s downsides.

-Inability to counter burst or sudden damage.
-Especially weak to poison (Other heals only require poison to be removed for one second before healing, poison is essentially 100% effective against heal signet)

This combined with Warriors general lack of Blind/Protection (1 blind, 1 protection if heavily traited) makes healing signet really not OP.

i tried many times to explain to them but they would not listen. O_O

then they label me as a warrior troll.

its not weak to poison, since its always on, the poison has to always be on to get that 1/3 reduction. A heals cast time is actualy the time in which somebody else can poison u and nerf the entire output. Signet doesnt have that. Also it actualy can counter burst damage kuz you see its a signet, and you can pop if you need to. of course you have 400 hp a second and the largest hp pool in the game, your not gona NEED to pop it.

Silhouette.5631:

its not weak to poison, since its always on, the poison has to always be on to get that 1/3 reduction, also it actualy can counter burst damage kuz you see its a signet, and you can pop if you need to. of course you have 400 hp a second and the largest hp pool in the game, your not gona NEED to pop it.

well, i do pop it when i am near death and is running away from the battle.

Ahlen.7591:

Are we still discussing this? Anyone who thinks that heal signet is OP is ignorant of it’s downsides.

-Inability to counter burst or sudden damage.
-Especially weak to poison (Other heals only require poison to be removed for one second before healing, poison is essentially 100% effective against heal signet)

This combined with Warriors general lack of Blind/Protection (1 blind, 1 protection if heavily traited) makes healing signet really not OP.

Try maintaining poison on a warrior running melandru runes and poultry soup, and let me know how that works out for you.

Black Box.9312:

Try maintaining poison on a warrior running melandru runes and poultry soup, and let me know how that works out for you.

Lets not forget cleansing ire.

Black Box.9312:

Ahlen.7591:

Are we still discussing this? Anyone who thinks that heal signet is OP is ignorant of it’s downsides.

-Inability to counter burst or sudden damage.
-Especially weak to poison (Other heals only require poison to be removed for one second before healing, poison is essentially 100% effective against heal signet)

This combined with Warriors general lack of Blind/Protection (1 blind, 1 protection if heavily traited) makes healing signet really not OP.

Try maintaining poison on a warrior running melandru runes and poultry soup, and let me know how that works out for you.

there are no food buffs in sPvP.

and if you’re in WvW, roam along with some friends.

Black Box.9312:

Ahlen.7591:

Are we still discussing this? Anyone who thinks that heal signet is OP is ignorant of it’s downsides.

-Inability to counter burst or sudden damage.
-Especially weak to poison (Other heals only require poison to be removed for one second before healing, poison is essentially 100% effective against heal signet)

This combined with Warriors general lack of Blind/Protection (1 blind, 1 protection if heavily traited) makes healing signet really not OP.

Try maintaining poison on a warrior running melandru runes and poultry soup, and let me know how that works out for you.

Let’s talk when you’re done messing around on the playground.

Warior and Necro – highest hp pool
400+ hps – 300 hps minion

Lets put aside:
-more armor
-minion has counter (kill , random dodge)
-DS – doesnt heal so doesnt matter here

READ HERE
The 300hps feels balanced on necro. Its strong 1v1, even on zerker MM, but it gets bursted in teamfights. How the heck is the heal signet still running wild?

Is it sooo hard to admit a mistake? Or better powercreep 7 clases ?
Is it too hard to go a “steady and slow” aprooach ?
Like from 200 to 400 – 300 – 350 – okay 325 is sweet balanced spot ???

Ahlen.7591:

Are we still discussing this? Anyone who thinks that heal signet is OP is ignorant of it’s downsides.

-Inability to counter burst or sudden damage.
-Especially weak to poison (Other heals only require poison to be removed for one second before healing, poison is essentially 100% effective against heal signet)

This combined with Warriors general lack of Blind/Protection (1 blind, 1 protection if heavily traited) makes healing signet really not OP.

And people that don’t think it’s too good are looking at it in a vacuum.

Yes, Healing Signet is not the best against burst, but warriors have other abilities to avoid burst (Shield Stance, Endure Pain, Berserker Stance, greatsword whirlwind, etc) and also have the option of CC’ing their opponent in many builds.

Yes, it’s weak to poison. But not every class has access to poison or a good way to apply it. And not everyone is a condition build, so taking sigil of doom isn’t the best option. Balancing around the assumption that the opponent has a specific boon or condition is bad design. When it does, it cements certain builds of certain classes as being required in a team. You already see that with guardians because of their wealth of group stability.

If warriors are too weak if a specific ability or trait was not used, it doesn’t mean the ability should stay as-is; it’s further evidence that it’s too good. Instead, that specific ability should be toned down so that others can be boosted, allowing for more variety.

While we’re looking past the vacuum, another thing that gets overlooked is the adrenaline gain aspect of Cleansing Ire that shoots warriors to full adrenaline, giving them a constant full benefit of Adrenal Health. Since Cleansing Ire is so common in warrior builds, it’s hard to say if Healing Signet is fully to blame. Without that adrenaline gain from being hit, Adrenal Health wouldn’t be nearly as effective.

I will partly agree with Deimos Tel Arin.7391 that Healing Signet is not way too good, but probably just a little too good. Shaving some of the passive off along with a cooldown reduction or increase to the active heal would help balance it and add skill in deciding when to use it and when to save it.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Clivar.3176:

Ezrael.6859:

……

Exactly, it cant be right that the only way to counter this build is by applying poison.
the whole point of healing skills is to have a way to counter it (interupt/CC).

why can’t it be right?
rocks, scissors, paper counters.

massive condition overload (necromancers, engineers) will render healing signet useless.

anyway, i wanna update my proposal.

currently it is 392 + 0.05 healing power
what if it is 300 + 0.20 healing power?

true berserker with 0 healing power
it would be 300 health per second (big shave from 392, less 92)

hammer warrior with 300 healing power from traits
it would be 360 health per second (medium shave from 407, less 47)

bunker with 1000 healing power from cleric amulet
it would be 500 health per second (small buff from 442, extra 58)

Changing it to something like 300 + 0.20 healing power is what I used to think was needed, but I feel like that is not fixing the root of the problem (despite the fact it is a reasonable change).

What is needed for all passive/AI play is to make it less passive. I think a better solution is to slash the healing passive entirely, and instead have it so the warrior gains a certain chunk of health whenever they gain a bar (10, not 1) of adrenaline. This means the warrior has really powerful sustain when he is gaining / spending / gaining adrenaline, aka making the healing more active.

Its an idea, and maybe it wouldn’t work in practice, but as someone who has over 1500 PvP games with Warrior, I just hate how brain-dead + powerful healing signet is.