Guild Wars 2

[quote=4325319;Mbelch.9028:}I’m just making the point that there are ways to buff Zerg specs, PvP specs and not buff already overpowered 1v1 specs.

Wouldn’t you agree? I just don’t think they’re putting the work into investigating and fleshing it out with players.
[/quote]

Theoretically, yes.
The devs have three things they need to balance:

• sPvP, which is mostly balance of power coupled with a strong focus on positioning and CC availability due to the domination-style maps.
• WvW, which is about balancing scaling and balancing contribution (or “wantedness”).
• PvE, which is balancing power and contribution, but less so than the other modes. However, large focus on balancing all types of utility to avoid 1-class-exploits and certain mechanics breaking on certain skills.

I’m highly doubtful even those three can be balanced at the same time, too much about them is mutually exclusive with each other. And while yes in theory I could see more modes like 1v1 roaming and GvG be balanced, with those three actually in-game modes being so difficult to balance, coupled with how glacial the pace of balance changes is, I doubt we’ll ever see anything being done about the player-invented formats.

Or in short: meh.

Why are LS patches biweekly, not balance patches? -.-

Lifestealer.4910:

WvW roaming will be deemed dead as well as all you will see is PU mesmers and P/D thieves ( you already see endless of this brain dead OP spec).

How is this any different to the situation now?
Its already 80-90% PU mesmers + condition thiefs.
Its almost as pathetic as those players that play those specs.

Kontrolle.3514:

Lifestealer.4910:

WvW roaming will be deemed dead as well as all you will see is PU mesmers and P/D thieves ( you already see endless of this brain dead OP spec).

How is this any different to the situation now?
Its already 80-90% PU mesmers + condition thiefs.
Its almost as pathetic as those players that play those specs.

Really? Because I just roamed in TC and that 90% you said was actually hambow warriors and D/P thieves.

Any dueling spec is pathetic. Don’t go pretending like your hammer stunlock with 5-6k autoattacks or a 8-9k backstab and spammable stealth isn;t kittened either.

And unlike PU mesmer or P/D thief, D/P thief and warrior can actually chase and kill faster.

Hell, a decent engineer will crap all over a PU mesmer or P/D thief, and D/P thief completely hardcounters P/D.

Bunch of whiny power spec kittenes you all are, as if the WvW GvG trains weren’t made up of mostly power spec guardians and warriors and eles. Bunker condi classes can only roam while every godkitten power spec gets to enjoy teamplay and dominance in PvE as well.

Play the scepter buff and see how bad of a decision it is and and get stuck with it for 6 months?!

This kind of talk is hilarious, especially directed at the mesmer class. We have had to deal with a broken warden for how long? A broken ileap? phantasmal haste? izerker? ielasticity? Our other 40 broken skills? 6 months is a blink of an eye from the mesmer perspective. So if it happens to be OP, I hope you all get stuck QQing about it for even a fraction of the time we were stuck dealing with all of our broken crap. The amount of hysteria is laughable!

As for the iLeap complaints, people want counterplay. So what do people do when thieves use sword 2? When they use steal? How about medi guards? Guard sword 2? I suggest doing the same tactics you use against those. Additionally, you can also try killing the clone, dodging during the cast animation, or dodging the swap.

All you QQ’ers might wanna save your stamina for the other class that is getting buffed this patch, adding a condition on a slow AA chain is not really an issue

zaxon.6819:

the crazy thing is… warriors complaining about mesmers.. mind blowing. learn to play

i dunno, the easiest time i have fighting hambows is as my PU mesmer, the warriors do melt pretty kitten easy!

side note, i’m surprised that noone is bringing up the colossal buff to Illusionary Elasticity this is the biggest buff since warrior healing signet’s buff imho.
the staff clones are the strongest of all clones and now they will deal double the damage,
it is going to melt faces!

Zenith.7301:

Kontrolle.3514:

Lifestealer.4910:

WvW roaming will be deemed dead as well as all you will see is PU mesmers and P/D thieves ( you already see endless of this brain dead OP spec).

How is this any different to the situation now?
Its already 80-90% PU mesmers + condition thiefs.
Its almost as pathetic as those players that play those specs.

Really? Because I just roamed in TC and that 90% you said was actually hambow warriors and D/P thieves.

Any dueling spec is pathetic. Don’t go pretending like your hammer stunlock with 5-6k autoattacks or a 8-9k backstab and spammable stealth isn;t kittened either.

And unlike PU mesmer or P/D thief, D/P thief and warrior can actually chase and kill faster.

Hell, a decent engineer will crap all over a PU mesmer or P/D thief, and D/P thief completely hardcounters P/D.

Bunch of whiny power spec kittenes you all are, as if the WvW GvG trains weren’t made up of mostly power spec guardians and warriors and eles. Bunker condi classes can only roam while every godkitten power spec gets to enjoy teamplay and dominance in PvE as well.

so youre playing PU mesmer or condition thief?
And tarnished cost must be a Northamerican-Server right? (US-Server got censored Oo)
Roaming as a hambow-Warrior? Lol thats something ive never seen in my life.
Before we go ahead with this silly discussion, whats exactly your definition of roaming? Windmill facetank duels for honour? And Thiefs are actually broken no matter what spec they actually use. Or arent you curious why they are 50%+ of all solo-smallcale population? Ahh now i get it yore one of the little dark-shadow-assasin-creed-murder-killers that play thief to live out your dark side.

Snorcha.7586:

All you QQ’ers might wanna save your stamina for the other class that is getting buffed this patch, adding a condition on a slow AA chain is not really an issue

Dont know but i dont remember that much of complainthreads after the engineer and ranger changes were announced… wait there were some, written from thiefs and pu-mesmers that are worried because they try to introduce a stealth counter, on crap skills that no one uses.

Condition mesmer are already strong and to easy to play even without pu trait. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PLs0cReY9A

Carighan.6758:

Theoretically, yes.
The devs have three things they need to balance:

• sPvP, which is mostly balance of power coupled with a strong focus on positioning and CC availability due to the domination-style maps.
• WvW, which is about balancing scaling and balancing contribution (or “wantedness”).
• PvE, which is balancing power and contribution, but less so than the other modes. However, large focus on balancing all types of utility to avoid 1-class-exploits and certain mechanics breaking on certain skills.

I’m highly doubtful even those three can be balanced at the same time, too much about them is mutually exclusive with each other. And while yes in theory I could see more modes like 1v1 roaming and GvG be balanced, with those three actually in-game modes being so difficult to balance, coupled with how glacial the pace of balance changes is, I doubt we’ll ever see anything being done about the player-invented formats.

Or in short: meh.

Why are LS patches biweekly, not balance patches? -.-
[/quote]

You only responded to part of what I said

I actually would argue that they could abandon the SPvP/WvW balance and just put their time into specifically buffing and nerfing so that they’re creating a balanced 5v5, 20v20(just an ex.) and 1v1 scene.

If you’ve balanced all those then there’s no need to even care which facet of the game you’re balancing for. Just give everything a strength and a weakness.

PvE… Just hit 1 and keep your heal skill in mind. Lol

Mbelch.9028:

I actually would argue that they could abandon the SPvP/WvW balance and just put their time into specifically buffing and nerfing so that they’re creating a balanced 5v5, 20v20(just an ex.) and 1v1 scene.

If you’ve balanced all those then there’s no need to even care which facet of the game you’re balancing for. Just give everything a strength and a weakness.

In theory I’d love that, but it wouldn’t be a popular thing.

If each class has a specific strength and weakness, you’re approaching TF2-like balance. Everyone is dependent on the team to patch over their weakness, and in turn patches 1-X other classes’ weakness.

The problems with those are:

• 1v1 is automatically intentionally imbalanced. I wouldn’t mind at all, but I bet a lot would.
• Free class choice wouldn’t exist. A stacked team would lose to balanced teams unless the other team is also stacked with classes weak to your stacked class.
• 5v5 would be straining it, as you’re missing at least 3 classes.

vincecontix.1264:

Condition mesmer are already strong and to easy to play even without pu trait. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PLs0cReY9A

It sure is strong in 1v1s against power builds even without PU, but that’s the case for almost every condi build in the game. I’m surprised that duelling servers allow any condi builds at all really.

I-leap is fine. The torment tho I feel has a lot of room for shaving, I think it’ll be fine even if we see a huge influx of PU mesmers for a few months. You may take more damage from it, but you can still walk away from them. :p Low risk condi spam on mes is a gimmick compared to necro and engie pooping on points, I think the buff was to promote condi mes to bring them in line with the aforementioned classes, but at the end of the day these guys you really can just ignore unless your a glass cannon.

Despite the constant struggle of trying to find or make a competitive and satisfying condi Mesmer build, I still love love playing one.

So when I found out they were FINALLY buffing scepter (tailored for condi users no less) I was thrilled!

Yet seeing that so far they’ve “only” added Torment to the auto-attack, I find myself a little conflicted.

Sure, now I won’t be so upset when Scepter 2 destroys one of my valuable Staff clones since they will be complimentary damage dealing sources. I may even turn on my scepter auto-attack (yay?)… but I was hoping for something a little more active and tricky. In terms of playstyle, I feel this change makes simply makes the Scepter deadlier, but no more complex than the Staff.

Although there’s wild speculation, I’m still not convinced this scepter buff will be too powerful or insignificant, but I’m quite certain it won’t be much more fun than it is already. I would have loved to see the Scepter be gifted more utility in the form of AoE, Denial, or Punishment capabilities rather than simply a DoT on the auto-attack.

I’m grateful the Mesmer Scepter (and condi Mesmers in general) is getting attention, but I don’t think this is the way condi Mesmers should be going.

Also to all those who are fixated on the proposed Scepter auto changes: staff clones now properly inheriting Illusionary Elasticity should be something of MUCH greater concern in terms of game impact than torment on Scepter auto!

For staff clones inheriting Illusionary Elasticity, I think people are less concerned about that because they figure that’s the way it always should have worked and this is more of a bug fix than a genuine buff.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

For staff clones inheriting Illusionary Elasticity, I think people are less concerned about that because they figure that’s the way it always should have worked and this is more of a bug fix than a genuine buff.

Doesn’t matter how you perceive it. It significantly improves performance that was good already, so it’s a buff.

Zenith.7301:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

For staff clones inheriting Illusionary Elasticity, I think people are less concerned about that because they figure that’s the way it always should have worked and this is more of a bug fix than a genuine buff.

Doesn’t matter how you perceive it. It significantly improves performance that was good already, so it’s a buff.

Oh, I’m not arguing with what it actually is, just saying why people aren’t making a big deal of it, despite being an incredibly significant change.

If you give mesmers AA torment, GW2 will turn into mesmer wars 2, at least until they make another class completely op.

the torment lasts 2 seconds, which is equal to 3 second bleed. It’s not “completely op” by any stretch of imagination. The scepter auto attack is so terrible anyways with projectile travel times and long cast times.

Brutal Augus.5917:

If you give mesmers AA torment, GW2 will turn into mesmer wars 2, at least until they make another class completely op.

Because Mesmers are all over the game modes right now. /sarcasm

Brutal Augus.5917:

If you give mesmers AA torment, GW2 will turn into mesmer wars 2, at least until they make another class completely op.

Ahahahaha, warrior detected.
Can you tell us in which game mod condie mesmer will be OP?
Now:

• wars OP at pve, mesmers useless
• wars OP at WvW, mesmers useless
• wars OP at SPvP, mesmers useless unless 1 man at all mesmer community
  oh condie pu mesmers immortal 1×1 but also can not kill someone because have not chase abilities.

Anton.1769:

Brutal Augus.5917:

If you give mesmers AA torment, GW2 will turn into mesmer wars 2, at least until they make another class completely op.

Ahahahaha, warrior detected.
Can you tell us in which game mod condie mesmer will be OP?
Now:

• wars OP at pve, mesmers useless
• wars OP at WvW, mesmers useless
• wars OP at SPvP, mesmers useless unless 1 man at all mesmer community
  oh condie pu mesmers immortal 1×1 but also can not kill someone because have not chase abilities.

[Previous argument about Mesmer PU build not needing Torment stacked on top of it]

You know what, I don’t even care.

Still gonna win.

buys torment runes while cheap | waits for patch to roll out so he finally knows what being OP is after being nerfed EVERY BALANCE PATCH SINCE BETA :^) Prepare your poopers Heal Signets and P/D theives :^)

Anton.1769:

Brutal Augus.5917:

If you give mesmers AA torment, GW2 will turn into mesmer wars 2, at least until they make another class completely op.

Ahahahaha, warrior detected.
Can you tell us in which game mod condie mesmer will be OP?
Now:

• wars OP at pve, mesmers useless
• wars OP at WvW, mesmers useless
• wars OP at SPvP, mesmers useless unless 1 man at all mesmer community
  oh condie pu mesmers immortal 1×1 but also can not kill someone because have not chase abilities.

Any time anyone tries to justify a buff they always compare things to Warriors but you list is pretty wrong.

vincecontix.1264:

Anton.1769:

Brutal Augus.5917:

If you give mesmers AA torment, GW2 will turn into mesmer wars 2, at least until they make another class completely op.

Ahahahaha, warrior detected.
Can you tell us in which game mod condie mesmer will be OP?
Now:

• wars OP at pve, mesmers useless
• wars OP at WvW, mesmers useless
• wars OP at SPvP, mesmers useless unless 1 man at all mesmer community
  oh condie pu mesmers immortal 1×1 but also can not kill someone because have not chase abilities.

Any time anyone tries to justify a buff they always compare things to Warriors but you list is pretty true but I am warrior and disagree with that.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

For staff clones inheriting Illusionary Elasticity, I think people are less concerned about that because they figure that’s the way it always should have worked and this is more of a bug fix than a genuine buff.

people are not concerned about IE because they are uneducasted in the buff and what exactly it means for condition and power builds.

The only thing these sheep’s see is scepter going from utter garbage to a semi-decent condition weapon. Couple that with PU and people overlook the more serious buff to mesmer condi/power dps.

phokus.8934:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

For staff clones inheriting Illusionary Elasticity, I think people are less concerned about that because they figure that’s the way it always should have worked and this is more of a bug fix than a genuine buff.

people are not concerned about IE because they are uneducasted in the buff and what exactly it means for condition and power builds.

The only thing these sheep’s see is scepter going from utter garbage to a semi-decent condition weapon. Couple that with PU and people overlook the more serious buff to mesmer condi/power dps.

sheeple didnt notice it because helselth “forgot” to mention how much it buffs his power build, drawing hate to the mesmer scepter and letting the people that have no clue follow his blind crusade.

Come patch day.
People will complain about scepter, being hard to deal with in an unsupported aspect of the game, while power builds rule everything else.

IE will go about the ways of the guardian. Unnoticed because of the mass amount of brainless followers

staff/gs or staff//sw/X shatterbuild. prepare ur kitten

IE will change almost nothing at shatter build. Illusions are generated and shattered as soon as possible

Anton.1769:

IE will change almost nothing at shatter build. Illusions are generated and shattered as soon as possible

actually it will

During the time when your most damaging shatters are spent IF the target is still alive, staff clones with there added bounce for damaging conditions will allow for constant pressure AND added vulnerability to the target resulting in a larger shatter numbers when everything is recharged.

Staff is also a great utility weapon.

When we look at IE we should also look at illusionary invigoration though, they share the same slot and will almost always fiercely compete with each other.

60s CD is a bit intimidating but if you balance around diversion, distortion and various forms of active defenses, a shatter mesmer can actually have a really really long fight (longest dual I reached is 15-20 min). The extra mind wrack can also help shatter mesmers finish the fight or turn the tide if he decides to go offensive. I don’t remember how many times II help me turn the table when I’m going to lose. Indeed IE change will give significantly more sustain pressure, and can definitely helps you ensure your victory, but if you’re already losing then IE change will be less likely to change the tide of battle.

So my take on this? IE change promote sub-diversity among shatter mesmers, as both II and IE has their advantage and disadvantage. Even without the IE change, II can still give opponents a huge headache.

I think they should change scepter from applying torment to applying bleeds, because seriously, torment is by far the strongest condition and perma torment will be impossible to deal with.

I have asked many top players about this change! and they all think its a bad change.

Lifestealer.4910:

I have asked many top players about this change! and they all think its a bad change.

Only bad players welcome the scepter change

Welcome to “Mesmer Wars 2”. Auto attack torment should not be available for any class. Anet really needs to do their homework. This is completely ridiculous.

Carighan.6758:

Brutal Augus.5917:

If you give mesmers AA torment, GW2 will turn into mesmer wars 2, at least until they make another class completely op.

Because Mesmers are all over the game modes right now. /sarcasm

Your sarcasm is ill placed, the key words in the above post was TURN INTO. Your sarcasm seems to be aimed at the present. A reading comprehension mistake on your part.

Brutal Augus.5917:

Brutal Augus.5917:

If you give mesmers AA torment, GW2 will turn into mesmer wars 2, at least until they make another class completely op.

Ahahahaha, warrior detected.
Can you tell us in which game mod condie mesmer will be OP?
Now:

• wars OP at pve, mesmers useless
• wars OP at WvW, mesmers useless
• wars OP at SPvP, mesmers useless unless 1 man at all mesmer community
  oh condie pu mesmers immortal 1×1 but also can not kill someone because have not chase abilities.

buddy, I play EVERY CLASS. I have 8 80’s. Guard, Necro, mesmer, warrior, engineer, elementalist, thief and yes even a ranger. Did I say anything about warriors? You can’t just automatically assume someone mains a warrior just because they oppose a ridiculous change to one of the most well equipped classes in the game. I think we all knew that the warrior needs nerfing, but completely breaking class balance is not the answer.
Now to your original points:

*who gives a kitten about PvE? When you make class balance changes they have to be based around PvP settings. This is just the way it has to be or else you end up with total imbalance.

*Mesmers useless in WvW? You obviously do not play WvW.

*You just made my point!! If you give condo PU AA torment it will= god mode because moving while under the effects of torment it does extra damage to moving targets and chasing will no longer be necessary!!! Torment stacks not only duration but intensity as well and when you can apply torment every 1/2 a second it just spells disaster for class balance. You would think this would be completely obvious, but I still have to spell it out for some people.

The mesmer is in a GOOD PLACE. If I can kill any class by learning and adapting a strategy for facing said class/playstyle SO CAN YOU.

Based on most of your comments, I think you just haven’t learned to play your mesmer, considering I’ve never had any issues killing warriors on mine, and I use an interrupt mes tank build I made myself.

you guys not done getting nerfed…. keep up the forum tears then.

Brutal Augus.5917:

Carighan.6758:

Brutal Augus.5917:

If you give mesmers AA torment, GW2 will turn into mesmer wars 2, at least until they make another class completely op.

Because Mesmers are all over the game modes right now. /sarcasm

Your sarcasm is ill placed, the key words in the above post was TURN INTO. Your sarcasm seems to be aimed at the present. A reading comprehension mistake on your part.

Brutal Augus.5917:

Brutal Augus.5917:

If you give mesmers AA torment, GW2 will turn into mesmer wars 2, at least until they make another class completely op.

Ahahahaha, warrior detected.
Can you tell us in which game mod condie mesmer will be OP?
Now:

• wars OP at pve, mesmers useless
• wars OP at WvW, mesmers useless
• wars OP at SPvP, mesmers useless unless 1 man at all mesmer community
  oh condie pu mesmers immortal 1×1 but also can not kill someone because have not chase abilities.

buddy, I play EVERY CLASS. I have 8 80’s. Guard, Necro, mesmer, warrior, engineer, elementalist, thief and yes even a ranger. Did I say anything about warriors? You can’t just automatically assume someone mains a warrior just because they oppose a ridiculous change to one of the most well equipped classes in the game. I think we all knew that the warrior needs nerfing, but completely breaking class balance is not the answer.
Now to your original points:

*who gives a kitten about PvE? When you make class balance changes they have to be based around PvP settings. This is just the way it has to be or else you end up with total imbalance.

*Mesmers useless in WvW? You obviously do not play WvW.

*You just made my point!! If you give condo PU AA torment it will= god mode because moving while under the effects of torment it does extra damage to moving targets and chasing will no longer be necessary!!! Torment stacks not only duration but intensity as well and when you can apply torment every 1/2 a second it just spells disaster for class balance. You would think this would be completely obvious, but I still have to spell it out for some people.

The mesmer is in a GOOD PLACE. If I can kill any class by learning and adapting a strategy for facing said class/playstyle SO CAN YOU.

Based on most of your comments, I think you just haven’t learned to play your mesmer, considering I’ve never had any issues killing warriors on mine, and I use an interrupt mes tank build I made myself.

• who gives a kitten about Solo Roaming? Because anywhere except this PU is useless. Even buffed this build will be not king of roaming. Why? Because it has zerro chase abilities. Smart enemie will tipe /laugh and run in 1 second from you.
• Mesmers not useless at WvW? You obviously do not play WvW. The only 1 thing why you see memsers at wvw is their Veil. Very rarely Portal.
• “The mesmer is in a GOOD PLACE. If I can kill any class by learning and adapting a strategy for facing said class/playstyle SO CAN YOU.” It’s not problem to kill other with mesmer, problem is killing enemie with another class is much easy while required less skill/buttons/strategie/rotations.
• “I use an interrupt mes tank build I made myself” Oh, we are see you are pro mesmer

The scepter AA should proc a short chill, providing the weapon with a soft cc. It would be relatively weak on its own, but having multiple scepter clones out would beginto present opponents with a bit of a problem.

just wait till the patch comes out and then test it. people say so much with so little information.

Brutal Augus.5917:

Carighan.6758:

Brutal Augus.5917:

If you give mesmers AA torment, GW2 will turn into mesmer wars 2, at least until they make another class completely op.

Because Mesmers are all over the game modes right now. /sarcasm

Your sarcasm is ill placed, the key words in the above post was TURN INTO. Your sarcasm seems to be aimed at the present. A reading comprehension mistake on your part.

Brutal Augus.5917:

Brutal Augus.5917:

If you give mesmers AA torment, GW2 will turn into mesmer wars 2, at least until they make another class completely op.

Ahahahaha, warrior detected.
Can you tell us in which game mod condie mesmer will be OP?
Now:

• wars OP at pve, mesmers useless
• wars OP at WvW, mesmers useless
• wars OP at SPvP, mesmers useless unless 1 man at all mesmer community
  oh condie pu mesmers immortal 1×1 but also can not kill someone because have not chase abilities.

buddy, I play EVERY CLASS. I have 8 80’s. Guard, Necro, mesmer, warrior, engineer, elementalist, thief and yes even a ranger.

I have 10, working on 11 ( second mesmer)

Brutal Augus.5917:

*who gives a kitten about PvE? When you make class balance changes they have to be based around PvP settings. This is just the way it has to be or else you end up with total imbalance.

and if you did any kind of pvp you would know how useful PU mes is in any type of tournament situation ( it’s not, but you can go ahead and try it)

Brutal Augus.5917:

*Mesmers useless in WvW? You obviously do not play WvW.

..Such viel,
much solo roam

wow…

Maybe you should actually try playing the mesmer outside of WvW dueling?

Brutal Augus.5917:

*You just made my point!! If you give condo PU AA torment it will= god mode because moving while under the effects of torment it does extra damage to moving targets and chasing will no longer be necessary!!! Torment stacks not only duration but intensity as well and when you can apply torment every 1/2 a second it just spells disaster for class balance. You would think this would be completely obvious, but I still have to spell it out for some people.

Well..considering this is a buff…to a build that is useless outside of EVERY OTHER ASPECT OF THE GAME…

I honestly understand why people are saying meh to torment AA. I mean its not like PU is going to magically become a Tpvp standard when it cant even hold a point..

You know..in pvp..

holding a point is a thing…

Brutal Augus.5917:

The mesmer is in a GOOD PLACE.

I don’t think anyone can take you seriously anymore.

Brutal Augus.5917:

Based on most of your comments, I think you just haven’t learned to play your mesmer, considering I’ve never had any issues killing warriors on mine, and I use an interrupt mes tank build I made myself.

Oh neat. I use a shatter…
You know the one that is useful and harder to play because you’re a paper doll with clones….that one..

Anton.1769:

Brutal Augus.5917:

Carighan.6758:

Brutal Augus.5917:

If you give mesmers AA torment, GW2 will turn into mesmer wars 2, at least until they make another class completely op.

Because Mesmers are all over the game modes right now. /sarcasm

Your sarcasm is ill placed, the key words in the above post was TURN INTO. Your sarcasm seems to be aimed at the present. A reading comprehension mistake on your part.

Brutal Augus.5917:

Brutal Augus.5917:

If you give mesmers AA torment, GW2 will turn into mesmer wars 2, at least until they make another class completely op.

Ahahahaha, warrior detected.
Can you tell us in which game mod condie mesmer will be OP?
Now:

• wars OP at pve, mesmers useless
• wars OP at WvW, mesmers useless
• wars OP at SPvP, mesmers useless unless 1 man at all mesmer community
  oh condie pu mesmers immortal 1×1 but also can not kill someone because have not chase abilities.

buddy, I play EVERY CLASS. I have 8 80’s. Guard, Necro, mesmer, warrior, engineer, elementalist, thief and yes even a ranger. Did I say anything about warriors? You can’t just automatically assume someone mains a warrior just because they oppose a ridiculous change to one of the most well equipped classes in the game. I think we all knew that the warrior needs nerfing, but completely breaking class balance is not the answer.
Now to your original points:

*who gives a kitten about PvE? When you make class balance changes they have to be based around PvP settings. This is just the way it has to be or else you end up with total imbalance.

*Mesmers useless in WvW? You obviously do not play WvW.

*You just made my point!! If you give condo PU AA torment it will= god mode because moving while under the effects of torment it does extra damage to moving targets and chasing will no longer be necessary!!! Torment stacks not only duration but intensity as well and when you can apply torment every 1/2 a second it just spells disaster for class balance. You would think this would be completely obvious, but I still have to spell it out for some people.

The mesmer is in a GOOD PLACE. If I can kill any class by learning and adapting a strategy for facing said class/playstyle SO CAN YOU.

Based on most of your comments, I think you just haven’t learned to play your mesmer, considering I’ve never had any issues killing warriors on mine, and I use an interrupt mes tank build I made myself.

• who gives a kitten about Solo Roaming? Because anywhere except this PU is useless. Even buffed this build will be not king of roaming. Why? Because it has zerro chase abilities. Smart enemie will tipe /laugh and run in 1 second from you.
• Mesmers not useless at WvW? You obviously do not play WvW. The only 1 thing why you see memsers at wvw is their Veil. Very rarely Portal.
• “The mesmer is in a GOOD PLACE. If I can kill any class by learning and adapting a strategy for facing said class/playstyle SO CAN YOU.” It’s not problem to kill other with mesmer, problem is killing enemie with another class is much easy while required less skill/buttons/strategie/rotations.
• “I use an interrupt mes tank build I made myself” Oh, we are see you are pro mesmer

*never said “who cares about solo roaming”, I said “Who cares about PvE” but perhaps you should read about what the torment condition does. Don’t make up things I never said.

*Golem portals, portal bombs, time warps and null fields are priceless in WvW. If you were looking for combat viability, try a high clone generation build. ANY of them for that matter, you don’t just have to be PU to be good in WvW. A well placed null field can be the difference between life and death btw. Again, do you even WvW?

*What does that even mean? Try actually playing it.

I could not understand most of what you posted due to grammar, please revise so it is legible.

There is no viable argument you could make that would make AA torment a good idea. For any class. Yes, there are plenty of ways various mesmer builds could be altered to increase their viability, but giving this class AA torment IS NOT THE ANSWER. Could they improve clone shatter? YES. Could they improve the clone AI so it’s not running into a freakin wall when it should be helping me kill my target and enemies aren’t able to just completely ignore their existence and just quickly burn my hp?? YES. Could they improve the scepter AA to make it so its not completely useless and shunned by mesmers? YES, but that doesn’t call for AA torment. I don’t want to play it first and then comment, that means it will be in the game for months before Anet even bats an eyebrow and anyone with a brain and knows anything about this condition knows this is a horrible idea. All bias aside. I enjoy the class the way it is, I feel like it actually took time and skill to master. These changes will take away all of that, making the class feel passive. Screw that.

Brutal Augus.5917:

There is no viable argument you could make that would make AA torment a good idea. For any class. Yes, there are plenty of ways various mesmer builds could be altered to increase their viability, but giving this class AA torment IS NOT THE ANSWER. Could they improve clone shatter? YES. Could they improve the clone AI so it’s not running into a freakin wall when it should be helping me kill my target and enemies aren’t able to just completely ignore their existence and just quickly burn my hp?? YES. Could they improve the scepter AA to make it so its not completely useless and shunned by mesmers? YES, but that doesn’t call for AA torment. I don’t want to play it first and then comment, that means it will be in the game for months before Anet even bats an eyebrow and anyone with a brain and knows anything about this condition knows this is a horrible idea. All bias aside. I enjoy the class the way it is, I feel like it actually took time and skill to master. These changes will take away all of that, making the class feel passive. Screw that.

The changes to scepter are happening.

From the latest skillbar.

They nerfed PU and clonedeath traits.

But scepter AA is here to stay.

Brutal Augus.5917:

There is no viable argument you could make that would make AA torment a good idea. For any class. Yes, there are plenty of ways various mesmer builds could be altered to increase their viability, but giving this class AA torment IS NOT THE ANSWER. Could they improve clone shatter? YES. Could they improve the clone AI so it’s not running into a freakin wall when it should be helping me kill my target and enemies aren’t able to just completely ignore their existence and just quickly burn my hp?? YES. Could they improve the scepter AA to make it so its not completely useless and shunned by mesmers? YES, but that doesn’t call for AA torment. I don’t want to play it first and then comment, that means it will be in the game for months before Anet even bats an eyebrow and anyone with a brain and knows anything about this condition knows this is a horrible idea. All bias aside. I enjoy the class the way it is, I feel like it actually took time and skill to master. These changes will take away all of that, making the class feel passive. Screw that.

Actually I’m pretty sure they heard of complaints of people running away from condition mesmer and scepter being poor with conditions soooo they added torment on AA and swiftness to PU in attempt to stop the marathon. Do you have an alternative to stop the marathon? No bad intentions.

Brutal Augus.5917:

*Golem portals, portal bombs, time warps and null fields are priceless in WvW. If you were looking for combat viability, try a high clone generation build. ANY of them for that matter, you don’t just have to be PU to be good in WvW. A well placed null field can be the difference between life and death btw. Again, do you even WvW?

Portal in general are great for many many things, and one of the most underestimated skills around in my opinion.

Null field, in my opinion is the single most underestimated skill in any WvW experience, hands down.

These balance can turn me back to gw2 again maybe.. I am in all the changes..

Except,

• Scepter AA first attack which clones can trigger it aswell ll be OP,
  - can be maken 1stattack non condi 2nd minor condi 3rd major condi so risk factor can work as sacrificing 4sec ll be rewardly fair.. Maybe 1st NA, 2nd 1xtorment 2secs, 3rd one 2xtorment with 3 secs
  I am in balance for AA chain is really crap now.. In term of damage havind finished it yet some details about scepter AA https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/DPS-Scepter-AA-vs-Staff-AA/4351755
  As it seems,
  Scepter AA ll not be OP if clones wont stack torment.. (If my math is wrong pls let me know, and pls ignore skillcoefficient of notes on geared)

Strictly speaking, these changes are in the wrong direction.

They have no effect in sPvP and no effect in PvE.
So it just leads these to actually having an effect in WvW. The problem being that these changes are absolutely and totally ridiculous for WvW on a build which already has absolutely absurd condition application with very passive play.

So what did ANet accomplish here? Nothing. Except they broke the class matchups even more in WvW.

For those saying that because it’s only good in one mode it’s fair, that’s not how things are justified. That’s like saying because bearbow ranger is by far the best class in solo open world PvE, they do not need any changes despite their clear, distinct, and known poor performance in all other modes and situations.

AA torment is not a balanced or even a good fix. The developers seemingly made this change for no good reason other than giving mesmers a random buff so they’d be happy with everyone else’s buffs (though thieves are still not very happy).

It’s not that mesmers don’t need a buff or tweaks but that this is completely the WRONG WAY to start since it will also just outright inhibit the buffing of other condition-oriented skills/traits.

There are no numbers in this thread. I’m not a theorycrafter, but I gave it my best shot. May need small adjustments, but let me know with FACTS and I’ll compare what I did.
Comparison is as apples to apples as I could come up with: Condi necro with rabid amulet and 2/6/0/6/0 with earth sigil, using only scepter 1&2. VS condi mesmer with 4/4/6 build and rabid gear using scepter 1&2 for torment. both using undead runes as that’s what i could find as max condi dmg.
from wiki: dmg/sec PER STACK = base+(coefficient*condidmg)

necro – Scepter AA is 1.5 chain, avg bleed is 1 per .75 sec. scep2 is 3 stacks/10sec. with a 49% crit chance, I was able to get an avg of 13 stacks. dmg/sec=[42.5+(.05*1513)]*13=1535.95

mesmer needs some assumptions. no aftercast, all skills cast instantly, perfect casts on cd, 3 clones, scepter only. in short – absolutely ideal conditions for the mesmer, scepter 2 always lands torment. torment dps=32+(.0375*conddmg). double base while moving. 1430 condi dmg with same runes&armor, and build traits.

scepter 2 always up – permanent 5 stacks of torment. scepter1 is 2 sec chain, giving 2sec stack on first, 4 second stack on second, and clone on 3rd. clone has same attack rate, each attack giving a 2sec stack. 6 stacks from clones, 4 stacks from AA, 5 stacks from block. throw in 3-4 more stacks from condi duration from traits, and you end up with about 16 stacks.
stationary dps=[32+.0375*1430]16=1370
moving dps=[64+.03751430]*16=1882
avg between moving and stationary=1626

while it can be given that moving will be more prevalent in a given fight, this is absolute ideal for the mesmer. it will end up being much closer to a necro scepter than the ideal situation when aftercast, weapon swaps, and realistic scenarios are considered.

disclaimer – all chain times are from the wiki. if they are wrong, blame the wiki.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Brutal Augus.5917:

*Golem portals, portal bombs, time warps and null fields are priceless in WvW. If you were looking for combat viability, try a high clone generation build. ANY of them for that matter, you don’t just have to be PU to be good in WvW. A well placed null field can be the difference between life and death btw. Again, do you even WvW?

Portal in general are great for many many things, and one of the most underestimated skills around in my opinion.

Null field, in my opinion is the single most underestimated skill in any WvW experience, hands down.

Portal bomb is strongly unrecommended since clipping/latency servers correction.
This is the case for at least one year…pleased to keep you up to date.

Time warp nerfed by 50% with no duration compensation (contrary to other professions also nerged on celerity (thieves and warriors)). Not major impact on never ending moving hammer trains.
Same on null field wich removes a marvelous amount of … 1 boon on 5 man per sec. Crazy game breaking op skill. You can go through it without loosing anything if you go between 2 pulses.

High clone generation…in wvw..ok I start understanding…you have no idea of what is wvw. You should understand that not everyone like to play only roaming. some appreciate participating on large figjts (original purpose of wvw)

Kicast.1459:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Brutal Augus.5917:

*Golem portals, portal bombs, time warps and null fields are priceless in WvW. If you were looking for combat viability, try a high clone generation build. ANY of them for that matter, you don’t just have to be PU to be good in WvW. A well placed null field can be the difference between life and death btw. Again, do you even WvW?

Portal in general are great for many many things, and one of the most underestimated skills around in my opinion.

Null field, in my opinion is the single most underestimated skill in any WvW experience, hands down.

Portal bomb is strongly unrecommended since clipping/latency servers correction.
This is the case for at least one year…pleased to keep you up to date.

Time warp nerfed by 50% with no duration compensation (contrary to other professions also nerged on celerity (thieves and warriors)). Not major impact on never ending moving hammer trains.
Same on null field wich removes a marvelous amount of … 1 boon on 5 man per sec. Crazy game breaking op skill. You can go through it without loosing anything if you go between 2 pulses.

High clone generation…in wvw..ok I start understanding…you have no idea of what is wvw. You should understand that not everyone like to play only roaming. some appreciate participating on large figjts (original purpose of wvw)

I never said anything about portals……….pleased to keep you up to date.

I simply said I feel portal is an underestimated skill in general. I know that the post I quoted mentioned “portal bombing”, but that was not what I was referencing in my statement.

The fact that time warp was nerfed a good while ago does not change the fact that it is a good skill.