Guild Wars 2

MidoriMarch.8067:

Totally agreed with this

Other classess make decisions to go either damage focused build or either tanky focused build. Which means if u go dps u gotta give up on defensive stats and if u go tanky build u gotta give up on offensive stats.. but look at Warriors? they can be tanky as hell while doing extremely high damage output without SACRIFICING any offensive nor defensive stats + DONT FORGET THEIR mobility as well.

“Btw Warriors can be beaten by well players” I agree with this. BUT Warriors have huge advantage having high mobility high damage/high bunkering stats which means you can beat them if u are a “good player” that knows what to do. Which tells u that even noob warriors can outplay other classess without requiring skills, but other players on different professions need certain amount of knowledge/understanding of that professions and skills to beat Warriors which is just unfair? and think about it which class will have advantage, if the player have the equal skills/control and understanding of the profession plays warrior or any other classess? its a fact that if the controller/player has the equal knowledge and skills, result will be determined by the profession’s items/stats. and right now which class got the highest hp/toughness/mobility while doing massive damage and tanks like truck? WARRIORS?

u are saying this is not OP?

Right, because going 20 into Defense traitline for Cleansing Ire, 30 if using Hammer, and taking a minimum of 2 Stances, which are clearly defensive utilities, is not sacrificing any offensive ability at all.

I would just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that there was a time when Ele was considered top tier and warriors were rock bottom. HP and Armour mean absolutely nothing. Warrior passive healing and cleansing could take a hit or two, but by no means are they earth-shakingly fundamentally OP by design.

Jzaku.9765:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Totally agreed with this

Other classess make decisions to go either damage focused build or either tanky focused build. Which means if u go dps u gotta give up on defensive stats and if u go tanky build u gotta give up on offensive stats.. but look at Warriors? they can be tanky as hell while doing extremely high damage output without SACRIFICING any offensive nor defensive stats + DONT FORGET THEIR mobility as well.

“Btw Warriors can be beaten by well players” I agree with this. BUT Warriors have huge advantage having high mobility high damage/high bunkering stats which means you can beat them if u are a “good player” that knows what to do. Which tells u that even noob warriors can outplay other classess without requiring skills, but other players on different professions need certain amount of knowledge/understanding of that professions and skills to beat Warriors which is just unfair? and think about it which class will have advantage, if the player have the equal skills/control and understanding of the profession plays warrior or any other classess? its a fact that if the controller/player has the equal knowledge and skills, result will be determined by the profession’s items/stats. and right now which class got the highest hp/toughness/mobility while doing massive damage and tanks like truck? WARRIORS?

u are saying this is not OP?

Right, because going 20 into Defense traitline for Cleansing Ire, 30 if using Hammer, and taking a minimum of 2 Stances, which are clearly defensive utilities, is not sacrificing any offensive ability at all.

I would just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that there was a time when Ele was considered top tier and warriors were rock bottom. HP and Armour mean absolutely nothing. Warrior passive healing and cleansing could take a hit or two, but by no means are they earth-shakingly fundamentally OP by design.

Yeah I don’t think you get the meaning of sacrifice….

Those guards that go bunker. You should see their damage numbers some time. I’ve tried that build. You crit for 800. No not 8k, 800. A warrior can’t even see that low of a number even if they went all sentinel’s with no attributes in power/crit/or condi.

It isn’t about giving up a util slot or two, or maybe giving up 1k damage. It is about the fact that every other class that goes tanky cannot reliably dps when they do. You can still deal 4k crits as a warrior when you are tanky as all heck. THAT IS THE PROBLEM!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/The-New-CDI-Topics/page/2#post3640104

problem is http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armored_Attack..
with basetoughness and speccing 25 points in defense they get 127 Strength.. thats like traiting 15 in strength. with full defense its 132.. thats nearly half of strengh provide.
another problem http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Merciless_Hammer
25% +dmg is more than strength will provide.. problem on this trait is during a 1vs1 its maybe not that strong but in a group fight with maybe another hammer warrior or some other form of cc its potential is far stronger

30 points in defense is not sacrifice of dmg for warrior atm.. it delievers all they need. +power, +regen on no icd ( dogged march), +healing (adrn. health), +dmg or invuln, +adrenalin, +condiregen, +toughness

all from ONE Traitline without much sacrifice or decisions what to take.

its not healing signet how many think what makes warrior op. its cleansing ire placed in defense line. the main problem is with cleansing ire they removed adrenalinmanagement warriors had before if they wanted to use burstskills often.

hooma.9642:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/The-New-CDI-Topics/page/2#post3640104

problem is http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armored_Attack..
with basetoughness and speccing 25 points in defense they get 127 Strength.. thats like traiting 15 in strength. with full defense its 132.. thats nearly half of strengh provide.
another problem http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Merciless_Hammer
25% +dmg is more than strength will provide.. problem on this trait is during a 1vs1 its maybe not that strong but in a group fight with maybe another hammer warrior or some other form of cc its potential is far stronger

30 points in defense is not sacrifice of dmg for warrior atm.. it delievers all they need. +power, +regen on no icd ( dogged march), +healing (adrn. health), +dmg or invuln, +adrenalin, +condiregen, +toughness

all from ONE Traitline without much sacrifice or decisions what to take.

its not healing signet how many think what makes warrior op. its cleansing ire placed in defense line. the main problem is with cleansing ire they removed adrenalinmanagement warriors had before if they wanted to use burstskills often.

Hmmm I main a warrior and I think you hit the nail on the head here. Since Cleansing Ire is an adrenaline based trait maybe put it in the Discipline trait line. Also I think that with some of the draw backs that Warriors have, instead of taking out Armored Attack, just nerf it to 7% or 5% (I say 7% Because of nerf to Great Fortitude in Strength tree). Healing signet is already getting an 8% nerf or so which will leave it at 350 healing so it will be in a good place.

actual i think cleansing ire can stay where it is, cause now its a solid choice for different specs. armored attack can also stay like it is now if the prop. changes are made

- cleansing ire must loose the adrenalin gain effect
- dogged march needs an internal cooldown

with that 2 changes the frequency of the warrior burst goes down in a teamfight, so the condicleaning and the perma regen. that alone brings back adrenalinmanagement as a key warriors need to consider if spending burst. that opens a lot of choices that need to be done for other additional sources of adrenalingeneration.

if that all gets done i would maybe think about remove cleansing ire to adept of strength or arms to open up another build diversity with more condicleansing options that are at the moment shut down or underperforming.

hooma.9642:

actual i think cleansing ire can stay where it is, cause now its a solid choice for different specs. armored attack can also stay like it is now if the prop. changes are made

- cleansing ire must loose the adrenalin gain effect
- dogged march needs an internal cooldown

with that 2 changes the frequency of the warrior burst goes down in a teamfight, so the condicleaning and the perma regen. that alone brings back adrenalinmanagement as a key warriors need to consider if spending burst. that opens a lot of choices that need to be done for other additional sources of adrenalingeneration.

if that all gets done i would maybe think about remove cleansing ire to adept of strength or arms to open up another build diversity with more condicleansing options that are at the moment shut down or underperforming.

removing the adrenaline gain on cleansing ire wouldn’t change adrenaline gain. Maybe it would for bunker specs because they can take many hits. But I spend my time avoiding hits and I find myself able to get enough adrenaline unless I am in a particularly tough fight. Also those two choices would not affect condition cleansing at all, because Dogged March does not cleanse conditions, but diminishes their length (Well movement impairing conditions anyways). So I am sorry but I disagree with suggestions.

I think you missed my point. I was responding to a post that said that warriors should be popular and should be the casual class because that is what people want.

My point is simple, if that is the design, then typically the class which is “casual friendly” and easy to play is also quite mediocre with an ability to do most things but only meh.

Not sure that is what you want for the warrior. . . . but typically if you have it all you have it blah.

@bobomb.5209
- dogged march delievers free regen. in a group fight are a lot of soft cc flying around. that adds to healing signet and adrenalin regen
- you should play without cleansing ire like me to actual knowing its power. it delievers enough regen esp in a group fight where all the aoe can be devasting
- another src of adrenalin regen comes from zerkerstance, but unless cleansing ire its not 24/7/365
- a zerkerwarrior with 30 in defense can in this meta also take many hits.

if my suggestions are to small so why u are against it? if it doesnt change anything why be against it? as i said, removing adrenalin on cleansing ire just brings back adrenalinmanagement as needed skill. on warrior that can manage that nothing change. but u will notice as soon as u fight against a good oponennt who knows what to dodge your time to spam burst will be harder.

all in all even if this changes are too small i think its a better start to shave warrior with this + the 8% on healing signet then any major nerfs like removing cleansing ire.

Bombsaway.7198:

I think you missed my point. I was responding to a post that said that warriors should be popular and should be the casual class because that is what people want.

My point is simple, if that is the design, then typically the class which is “casual friendly” and easy to play is also quite mediocre with an ability to do most things but only meh.

Not sure that is what you want for the warrior. . . . but typically if you have it all you have it blah.

You do realize warrior is already outperformed by other classes in EVERY area of the game.
I simply don’t get what you can’t understand.

Harper.4173:

Bombsaway.7198:

I think you missed my point. I was responding to a post that said that warriors should be popular and should be the casual class because that is what people want.

My point is simple, if that is the design, then typically the class which is “casual friendly” and easy to play is also quite mediocre with an ability to do most things but only meh.

Not sure that is what you want for the warrior. . . . but typically if you have it all you have it blah.

You do realize warrior is already outperformed by other classes in EVERY area of the game.
I simply don’t get what you can’t understand.

Most Warriors understand that, it’s all those crying nerf that don’t. Yes we have a few strong builds which can get some easily kills vs certain builds and professions but each one of those builds can be countered (quite easily) by different builds of other professions. That’s what happens when you balance for 5 man teams in tPvP.

wars (or any class for that matter) shouldn’t be tanky and be able to pull out high dmg

longbow needs a nerf across the board

“Most Warriors understand that. . . .” This is the concern. It seems that only warriors are having a hard time understanding that their class really does need to be toned down.

Of course, warriors bleed and burn. . . . but less easily than they should. Warrior defense should be their ability to kill not survive.

Bombsaway.7198:

“Most Warriors understand that. . . .” This is the concern. It seems that only warriors are having a hard time understanding that their class really does need to be toned down.

Of course, warriors bleed and burn. . . . but less easily than they should. Warrior defense should be their ability to kill not survive.

No one said it is perfect, there are still some adjustments to be made but reading all these nerf threads that all these noobs have been posting gives me the feeling that they don’t want just fine tuning. They want some hamfisted overnerf that will make warriors what they used to be, free kills. If they nerf warriors now before bringing the other broken professions up to par what will happen when those professions get fixed?

We used to have an amazing ability to do really big and kill quickly, but people cried that it was too OP so Anet nerfed it leaving us with less than mediocre defenses without the killing power needed to survive and we died too easily. They then buffed our defenses to make us viable and give us a place in the meta and people still cry saying that we are too hard to kill. Yet, I can still get facerolled by certain build of several classes. What the eff do you people really want?

Harper.4173:

You do realize warrior is already outperformed by other classes in EVERY area of the game.
I simply don’t get what you can’t understand.

This is a joke right?

Jasher.6580:

Harper.4173:

You do realize warrior is already outperformed by other classes in EVERY area of the game.
I simply don’t get what you can’t understand.

This is a joke right?

No it isn’t but it’s not entirely accurate. Every class can do something better than the warrior can. Warrior just has a nice combination that can give him decent everything at once which to some people is so way OP. Thieves, Mesmers, and Engi’s all have a build that can wipe the floor with a power build warrior and every class has a build that can hold up and be competitive with a condi based warrior.

eleshazar.6902:

Jzaku.9765:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Totally agreed with this

Other classess make decisions to go either damage focused build or either tanky focused build. Which means if u go dps u gotta give up on defensive stats and if u go tanky build u gotta give up on offensive stats.. but look at Warriors? they can be tanky as hell while doing extremely high damage output without SACRIFICING any offensive nor defensive stats + DONT FORGET THEIR mobility as well.

“Btw Warriors can be beaten by well players” I agree with this. BUT Warriors have huge advantage having high mobility high damage/high bunkering stats which means you can beat them if u are a “good player” that knows what to do. Which tells u that even noob warriors can outplay other classess without requiring skills, but other players on different professions need certain amount of knowledge/understanding of that professions and skills to beat Warriors which is just unfair? and think about it which class will have advantage, if the player have the equal skills/control and understanding of the profession plays warrior or any other classess? its a fact that if the controller/player has the equal knowledge and skills, result will be determined by the profession’s items/stats. and right now which class got the highest hp/toughness/mobility while doing massive damage and tanks like truck? WARRIORS?

u are saying this is not OP?

Right, because going 20 into Defense traitline for Cleansing Ire, 30 if using Hammer, and taking a minimum of 2 Stances, which are clearly defensive utilities, is not sacrificing any offensive ability at all.

I would just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that there was a time when Ele was considered top tier and warriors were rock bottom. HP and Armour mean absolutely nothing. Warrior passive healing and cleansing could take a hit or two, but by no means are they earth-shakingly fundamentally OP by design.

Yeah I don’t think you get the meaning of sacrifice….

Those guards that go bunker. You should see their damage numbers some time. I’ve tried that build. You crit for 800. No not 8k, 800. A warrior can’t even see that low of a number even if they went all sentinel’s with no attributes in power/crit/or condi.

It isn’t about giving up a util slot or two, or maybe giving up 1k damage. It is about the fact that every other class that goes tanky cannot reliably dps when they do. You can still deal 4k crits as a warrior when you are tanky as all heck. THAT IS THE PROBLEM!

Warrior has none of the defensive tools that guardians have though. If guardians want to do damage and be tanky then they’ll have to give up their protection and aegis.

You act like each class should behave exactly the same. It would be helpful if you stop comparing in a 1v1 scenario because that’s not how anet does it and that’s not how the game is played.

Bombsaway.7198:

“Most Warriors understand that. . . .” This is the concern. It seems that only warriors are having a hard time understanding that their class really does need to be toned down.

Of course, warriors bleed and burn. . . . but less easily than they should. Warrior defense should be their ability to kill not survive.

Who remembers when the only viable build warriors had was berserk bulls rush into 100b?

That is essentially what you are asking for. When warriors could basically 1 shot most people.

But wait. Then people learned how to counter it and it stopped being effective. Not that it was effective for more than a week or two but that’s beside the point. And after that warriors were considered free kills for 10 months.

Seems like most people crying for warrior nerfs won’t be happy until the above is true once again.

eleshazar.6902:

Yeah I don’t think you get the meaning of sacrifice….

Those guards that go bunker. You should see their damage numbers some time. I’ve tried that build. You crit for 800. No not 8k, 800. A warrior can’t even see that low of a number even if they went all sentinel’s with no attributes in power/crit/or condi.

It isn’t about giving up a util slot or two, or maybe giving up 1k damage. It is about the fact that every other class that goes tanky cannot reliably dps when they do. You can still deal 4k crits as a warrior when you are tanky as all heck. THAT IS THE PROBLEM!

I took the time to prove you wrong because you really disgust me with your hyperbole.
“But if you compare [build that is clearly meant to kill people] with [build that is clearly NOT meant to kill people] they do so much more damage!”

Except if a warrior was traited exactly the same way as a bunker guardian its pretty much the same damage. However much you want to delude yourself into thinking your average bruiser warrior build is just as tanky as a bunker guardian it still remains, factually, completely false.

Personally I’m happy with the warrior. Right now most of the traits feel powerful and pretty much all of the weapons are useful in some way.

I’d like it if weaker classes were buffed up to this level rather than having the warrior dragged back down into the abyss of “only one build works” that some other classes are stuck in.

Aegael.6938:

Personally I’m happy with the warrior. Right now most of the traits feel powerful and pretty much all of the weapons are useful in some way.

I’d like it if weaker classes were buffed up to this level rather than having the warrior dragged back down into the abyss of “only one build works” that some other classes are stuck in.

I’m also happy with my warriors. But that neither means it’s balanced nor it’s fun to play against.
Ofcourse would it be great if all classes where same effective as the warrior is right now, but it would be simply too much. PvP would be almost only about oneshotting each other.

Bombsaway.7198:

“Most Warriors understand that. . . .” This is the concern. It seems that only warriors are having a hard time understanding that their class really does need to be toned down.

Of course, warriors bleed and burn. . . . but less easily than they should. Warrior defense should be their ability to kill not survive.

Yeaaaaaah. That makes so much sense except it doesn’t.

You can’t tie in a class’ survive capability to its ability to kill while other classes have mechanics that allow them to stay alive very easily.
So if warrior can only stay alive by killing then you can’t even touch classes like mesmer or thief that have innate mechanics that allow them to be elusive and prevent you from " killing".

See the problem?
You need to be able to stay alive whether you’re fighting or not.

Jasher.6580:

Harper.4173:

You do realize warrior is already outperformed by other classes in EVERY area of the game.
I simply don’t get what you can’t understand.

This is a joke right?

You’re either a terrible player or unaware of how things work in this game.
I suggest you start looking things up – but i’ll give you a hand because why not.

Bunker : Guardian > Warrior
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian > Warrior
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian> Warrior
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer> Warrior
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis > Warrior

Harper.4173:

Jasher.6580:

Harper.4173:

You do realize warrior is already outperformed by other classes in EVERY area of the game.
I simply don’t get what you can’t understand.

This is a joke right?

You’re either a terrible player or unaware of how things work in this game.
I suggest you start looking things up – but i’ll give you a hand because why not.

Bunker : Guardian > Warrior
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian > Warrior
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian> Warrior
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer> Warrior
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis > Warrior

GW2: Warrior>Everyone

Harper.4173:

Jasher.6580:

Harper.4173:

You do realize warrior is already outperformed by other classes in EVERY area of the game.
I simply don’t get what you can’t understand.

This is a joke right?

You’re either a terrible player or unaware of how things work in this game.
I suggest you start looking things up – but i’ll give you a hand because why not.

Bunker : Guardian > Warrior
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian > Warrior
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian> Warrior
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer> Warrior
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis > Warrior

It’s easy to put < and > where you like it or think that it’s the way it is. Reasons should also be posted.

I might say might stacking: guardian < warrior, ele, engineer.
reason: overall might stacking is easier for the warrior due to signet and shout so the warrior has 7^ (^ = stacks) for a longer period of time. Sure the guardian has might but only for 5s or 12s if using empowered. The ele has also solid 7^-9^? might when traited. And theres the enigneer with his flame thrower how many stacks does he have? Overall the ele, warrior, engi are having it sustained or most of the time.

Fury uptime warrior > all. Having those 20% is imbalanced (Signet, shouts).

How about speed buff. Sure guardian with shouts and staff #3 is able to keep 33% up all the time. The warrior is also able to do that. But he has not to stand in a circle for 4 long seconds. Therefore warrior > guardian.

Lets compare two warriors and two guardians.
Might stacking with empowred combinded 24^ for 12s.
Two warriors 3^ 25s (fgj) and signet 5^ 30s. fgj is spammable meaning 3^ can be maintened. 3^x2(+5^) = 11^ for at least 25s. Now how about some GS might stacks or true sigils… What about reload? Getting difficult. warrior < guardian

How about 5 warriors with fgj they can keep 3^5 = 15^ all the time. 5 guardians organized could keep up 24^ all the time. Gurdian > warrior. Not to mention the signet or the better traits the warrior has. (GS -> might + vulnerability)

Or in regards of PVE single target damage warrior axe AA (it’s fast and it hits hard) > all

I mean: I like to play the warrior but other profession should also be a great as the warrior. But true the gamedesign the holy warrior is the ONE. And i’d like to see the favour on the other professions as well. So don’t nerv the warrior buff the others.

Really, want to play that game?

Aoe stun frequency warrior > all

Best mobility in game warrior > all

Highest health + highest armour warrior > all

Highest single target damage at range warrior > all

Highest invulnerability uptime warrior > all

See…i can do this all day.

You may as well type : Class who is called an Elementalist : Elementalist > All.

phaeris.7604:

Really, want to play that game?

Aoe stun frequency warrior > all

Best mobility in game warrior > all

Highest health + highest armour warrior > all

Highest single target damage at range warrior > all

Highest invulnerability uptime warrior > all

See…i can do this all day.

You may as well type : Class who is called an Elementalist : Elementalist > All.

Im sorry, but I have to disappoint you:

Best downed skill in solo PvE roaming: Ranger > all

phaeris.7604:

Really, want to play that game?

Aoe stun frequency warrior > all I won’t argue there but can easily be shut down with blinds and stability

Best mobility in game warrior > all agreed, Rush should be toned down a bit

Highest health + highest armour warrior > all irrelevant, we had that at launch and were nothing but a free kill for 10 months. Health and Armor really means nothing

Highest single target damage at range warrior > all That is a Ranger problem, not a Warrior problem (if you are referring to kill shot, lol if you can’t avoid that you deserve to die)

Highest invulnerability uptime warrior > all would gladly trade our 4 to 8 seconds of invulnerability on a 60 sec CD for the ability to have near perma protection, pop an Aegis regularly during the fight, spawn half a dozen clones to tank damage for me, spam blind, or completely disappear from the fight every few seconds

See…i can do this all day.

You may as well type : Class who is called an Elementalist : Elementalist > All.

phaeris.7604:

Really, want to play that game?

Except he is right, warrior is outperformed by other classes in the vast majority of the major “roles” in the game.

Let’s list some the main catagories, not daft things -

Bunkering down, is it the best? No.
Team support, is it the best? No.
Roaming, back point taker, is it the best? No.
Spike damage, is it the best? No.
1v1, is it the best? No.
Highest pve damage? No.

Does that mean they are not in a (very) good place, or that tweaks need to be made? No.

Warriors in terms of power are in a very good place at the moment, but some of the OTT hyperbole (omg nerfz the warriorz!!) nonsense we see spouted by a few people on these forums day after day is pretty tragic. As is succinctly highlight by the fact someone mentioned the words “useless” and “guardian” in the same sentence.

Playing a warrior main, yes, we are grossly op but not for anything that you guys are suggesting. It’s the high control (stun/Immob), burst, and immunities to all cc for large amounts of time. I could careless if i’m fighting a warrior and his regen is 500-800hps, I’m going to go in with immob and a Berserk/stability fueled rage with a greatsword followed by eviserate or an immob arcing arrow to final thrust. And guess what? There is nothing you can do about it because I’m either immune to damage, cc, or both and can do it more often then you have stun breaks/Invun.

One question here in this round,what do wvwvw guilds mainly search? Engineers?
When u look at the lfg tool what do groups search mainly? Thiefs? no ladies and gentlemen,they looking mainy all for warriors….
I also see much friends who played once a thief or ranger,and now they play a warrior,not because that this class is fun

Loubbo.9852:

Playing a warrior main, yes, we are grossly op but not for anything that you guys are suggesting. It’s the high control (stun/Immob), burst, and immunities to all cc for large amounts of time. I could careless if i’m fighting a warrior and his regen is 500-800hps, I’m going to go in with immob and a Berserk/stability fueled rage with a greatsword followed by eviserate or an immob arcing arrow to final thrust. And guess what? There is nothing you can do about it because I’m either immune to damage, cc, or both and can do it more often then you have stun breaks/Invun.

How do you have high control (enough to overcome any breaks/stability the opponent has) with a GS/Axe combo again ( “greatsword followed by eviserate (sic)”)?

The vast majority of warriors cc potential comes with hammer, oddly one of the few weapons you didn’t actually name.

phaeris.7604:

Really, want to play that game?

Aoe stun frequency warrior > all

Best mobility in game warrior > all

Highest health + highest armour warrior > all

Highest single target damage at range warrior > all

Highest invulnerability uptime warrior > all

See…i can do this all day.

You may as well type : Class who is called an Elementalist : Elementalist > All.

Yeah I love Hammer for its CC and its massive mobility..

Lol, don’t even try to say: you can get GS or sword in other weapon set..
only 1 of them are not even close to compare with other classes for mobility.

Grebcol.5984:

One question here in this round,what do wvwvw guilds mainly search? Engineers?
When u look at the lfg tool what do groups search mainly? Thiefs? no ladies and gentlemen,they looking mainy all for warriors….
I also see much friends who played once a thief or ranger,and now they play a warrior,not because that this class is fun

The first thing WvW guilds look for when building the core of their force is Guardians. Then it’s warriors, eles, necros, and mesmers. Sorry for you rangers and thieves. Engis have a better shot of getting in than you.

Fenrir.3609:

Loubbo.9852:

Playing a warrior main, yes, we are grossly op but not for anything that you guys are suggesting. It’s the high control (stun/Immob), burst, and immunities to all cc for large amounts of time. I could careless if i’m fighting a warrior and his regen is 500-800hps, I’m going to go in with immob and a Berserk/stability fueled rage with a greatsword followed by eviserate or an immob arcing arrow to final thrust. And guess what? There is nothing you can do about it because I’m either immune to damage, cc, or both and can do it more often then you have stun breaks/Invun.

How do you have high control (enough to overcome any breaks/stability the opponent has) with a GS/Axe combo again ( “greatsword followed by eviserate (sic)”)?

The vast majority of warriors cc potential comes with hammer, oddly one of the few weapons you didn’t actually name.

Via leg specialist, Shield Bash, and/or the physcial utility skills? And hammer is great and all but don’t always need hard cc on order to connect your burst… And I’m sorry Hammer is one of the easiest weapons to dodge/blind spam against. Its only a problem one you have multiple on you which can be said about any class.

Loubbo.9852:

Fenrir.3609:

Loubbo.9852:

Playing a warrior main, yes, we are grossly op but not for anything that you guys are suggesting. It’s the high control (stun/Immob), burst, and immunities to all cc for large amounts of time. I could careless if i’m fighting a warrior and his regen is 500-800hps, I’m going to go in with immob and a Berserk/stability fueled rage with a greatsword followed by eviserate or an immob arcing arrow to final thrust. And guess what? There is nothing you can do about it because I’m either immune to damage, cc, or both and can do it more often then you have stun breaks/Invun.

How do you have high control (enough to overcome any breaks/stability the opponent has) with a GS/Axe combo again ( “greatsword followed by eviserate (sic)”)?

The vast majority of warriors cc potential comes with hammer, oddly one of the few weapons you didn’t actually name.

Via leg specialist, Shield Bash, and/or the physcial utility skills? And hammer is great and all but don’t always need hard cc on order to connect your burst… And I’m sorry Hammer is one of the easiest weapons to dodge/blind spam against. Its only a problem one you have multiple on you which can be said about any class.

Shield bash and/or your utilities are not going to out cc/perma cc everyone and anyone. Which is what your post seemed to be trying to imply.

The point being, you made is sound as though you could out hard cc anything and anyone when using any weapon set and thus being able to bring max spike to the fore, which is simply not true.

No, you made it seem that way. I said nothing about stuns of any sort initially, simply immobilizes (with an exception of the offhand shield which most builds will have). Since for large portions conditions are drastically reduced or negated on us we can easier perform our burst rotations. Hell, with a simple Sigil of Hydromancy you can still perform a large chunk of the burst.

phaeris.7604:

Really, want to play that game?

Aoe stun frequency warrior > all

Best mobility in game warrior > all

Highest health + highest armour warrior > all

Highest single target damage at range warrior > all

Highest invulnerability uptime warrior > all

See…i can do this all day.

You may as well type : Class who is called an Elementalist : Elementalist > All.

Warriors don’t have invulnerability. Try again.
Warriors have good mobility – true.

High armor and health – you need those because no soft damage mitigation.

And if highest single target range damage means Killshot then allow me to laugh.

Harper.4173:

phaeris.7604:

Really, want to play that game?

Aoe stun frequency warrior > all

Best mobility in game warrior > all

Highest health + highest armour warrior > all

Highest single target damage at range warrior > all

Highest invulnerability uptime warrior > all

See…i can do this all day.

You may as well type : Class who is called an Elementalist : Elementalist > All.

Warriors don’t have invulnerability. Try again.
Warriors have good mobility – true.

High armor and health – you need those because no soft damage mitigation.

And if highest single target range damage means Killshot then allow me to laugh.

Please get your facts correct before posting:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain
Skill text Take no damage from attacks. You are still susceptible to conditions and crowd control effects.
The no damage is in fact Invulnerability:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability.

So…anything else you’d like to share with the group?

A warrior’s weakness was taking condition damage with less cure options. They have eliminated this with increasing berserker stance duration to 8s(10s with trait) and cleansing ire. This is why many people think that warriors are op. If you remove the weak point of any class, this class will inevitably become op since this game has a rock paper scissors style class balance. Anti-warrior counter was condition builds, now with the lack of real counter against warriors, when played with same player skill level, warriors can easily faceroll all other classes. I hope they realize they did this wrong, and nerf cleansing ire and berserker stance(to 4s like before). If you are using condition build, warriors are playing god mode with all these condition counters. Yes, they are playing god mode against their #1 counter. They don’t even take damage with the extra help of healing signet while spamming stuns 7/24. A nerf is obviously needed for warriors.

Bran.7425:

Harper.4173:

phaeris.7604:

Really, want to play that game?

Aoe stun frequency warrior > all

Best mobility in game warrior > all

Highest health + highest armour warrior > all

Highest single target damage at range warrior > all

Highest invulnerability uptime warrior > all

See…i can do this all day.

You may as well type : Class who is called an Elementalist : Elementalist > All.

Warriors don’t have invulnerability. Try again.
Warriors have good mobility – true.

High armor and health – you need those because no soft damage mitigation.

And if highest single target range damage means Killshot then allow me to laugh.

Please get your facts correct before posting:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain
Skill text Take no damage from attacks. You are still susceptible to conditions and crowd control effects.
The no damage is in fact Invulnerability:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability.

So…anything else you’d like to share with the group?

This is one of those moments where the way they phrased the description of invulnerability makes me facepalm. In that very first line, it says word for word:

“Invulnerability is an effect that prevents the target from taking damage or receiving conditions.”

Whoever thought to put down ‘or’ there should have put ‘and’ instead. Because true invuln does in fact prevent condition reception as well and Endure Pain does not.

Brb, going to find the wiki guy to slap him.

Bran.7425:

Harper.4173:

phaeris.7604:

Really, want to play that game?

Aoe stun frequency warrior > all

Best mobility in game warrior > all

Highest health + highest armour warrior > all

Highest single target damage at range warrior > all

Highest invulnerability uptime warrior > all

See…i can do this all day.

You may as well type : Class who is called an Elementalist : Elementalist > All.

Warriors don’t have invulnerability. Try again.
Warriors have good mobility – true.

High armor and health – you need those because no soft damage mitigation.

And if highest single target range damage means Killshot then allow me to laugh.

Please get your facts correct before posting:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain
Skill text Take no damage from attacks. You are still susceptible to conditions and crowd control effects.
The no damage is in fact Invulnerability:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability.

So…anything else you’d like to share with the group?

Skills which prevent damage, but not conditions (the enemy still technically does damage so their on-hit or on-crit effects will trigger,unlike with actual invulnerability):

unlike with actual invulnerability

actual invulnerability

Endure Pain and signet of stone are not actual invulnerability

Sorry warriors and rangers

Skills which prevent damage, but not conditions (the enemy still technically does damage so their on-hit or on-crit effects will trigger,unlike with actual invulnerability):

unlike with actual invulnerability

actual invulnerability

Endure Pain and signet of stone are not actual invulnerability

Sorry warriors and rangers

By that logic, there are no invulnerability skills in the game. Even Renewed Focus lets conditions tick for damage while being used.

warriors are OP.

how their current state got through testing is beyond me.

good sustain with great survivability.

when I see a warrior in pvp I get blown away by there sustain and damage, baring in mind I play necro the class thats meant to be aattrition based class, how am I getting ‘out attritioned’ ‘out damaged’ and ‘out everything else’ by a warrior?

They should add /nerf @ class and /nerfed @ class really

More seriously, I play Mesmer/Warrior/Guardian in PvP/WvW (I do like one dung every month) and yes I think Warrior need a nerf at laest in PvP.
Now, I’m not sure how much time it will take but warriors are definitely going to get nerfed.
If you guys want to avoid an overnerf you better activelly take part in the nerfing process as this will give you credit when the time to oppose abusive requests come.
Keep it cool, try answearing QQ posts with exemples figures and videos and everything should be ok. On the other hand “L2P posts” and “Go troll elsewhere posts” can only backfire on you as they just keep feeding the rage.

Bunker : Guardian > Warrior
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian > Warrior
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian> Warrior
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer> Warrior
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis > Warrior

So there is one class that is in the top 3 of every aspect of this game. Even if I were to concede that warriors are not “the best” at anything, being 2nd or 3rd at everything is much better anyway. I’d rather have no weaknesses than be great at one aspect of the game and garbage at nearly everything else.

As I see it the problem is you there are defined weaknesses of all the other classes that you can exploit to beat them. The most often suggested way to beat a warrior I’ve seen is bring a friend or run away (if you can). Further I’ll just throw this out there, I play a warrior in spvp early in the the morning when I wake up because it’s a good way to ease into the game and drink some coffee. You can perform pretty well even when you’re still half asleep on a warrior.

i cant even start how many things are op with war. its not that there is this one thing. even if current builds are nerfed, they will just shift to other op traits which are currently idle. for instance, nerf power hambow? there is distracting strikes, applies 4 stacks x 8 sec (!!!) confusion. hammer can very well pull interrupt every 8 sec. his carrion amulet, perma confusion and you are dead

healing signet? squishy thief’s signet heals 100h/skill. tanky warrior 400h/sec. even if you think thief carries 1/2 nonstop spells, warrior gets x2 healing.

hammer autoattack is 1.5-2 k dps, at least. one of the top sustains in the game (and keeping you perma cripple is no prob with ham#2).

the only chance for anyone to survive is if you succeed in kiting. there comes pin down. now its 1/4 cast time – cant avoid but by chance. the coming nerf at best can only allow one chance counter and if you miss it – end of the story. better have some kiting slow, else you are dead.

gesho.9468:

i cant even start how many things are op with war. its not that there is this one thing. even if current builds are nerfed, they will just shift to other op traits which are currently idle. for instance, nerf power hambow? there is distracting strikes, applies 4 stacks x 8 sec (!!!) confusion. hammer can very well pull interrupt every 8 sec. his carrion amulet, perma confusion and you are dead

healing signet? squishy thief’s signet heals 100h/skill. tanky warrior 400h/sec. even if you think thief carries 1/2 nonstop spells, warrior gets x2 healing.

hammer autoattack is 1.5-2 k dps, at least. one of the top sustains in the game (and keeping you perma cripple is no prob with ham#2).

the only chance for anyone to survive is if you succeed in kiting. there comes pin down. now its 1/4 cast time – cant avoid but by chance. the coming nerf at best can only allow one chance counter and if you miss it – end of the story. better have some kiting slow, else you are dead.

Are you kidding me? Distracting Strikes OP? Going condition damage or even hybrid with a hammer and pretty much lose most of your survivability? It’s called, not spamming skills when you have confusion on you and condition removal. Confusion doesn’t even do a lot of damage, especially at 4 stacks.

Darmikau.9413:

Skills which prevent damage, but not conditions (the enemy still technically does damage so their on-hit or on-crit effects will trigger,unlike with actual invulnerability):

unlike with actual invulnerability

actual invulnerability

Endure Pain and signet of stone are not actual invulnerability

Sorry warriors and rangers

By that logic, there are no invulnerability skills in the game. Even Renewed Focus lets conditions tick for damage while being used.

Conditions that have already been applied, yes.
Same with the elementalist vapor and mist form.

Endure Pain on the other hand will still allow conditions from attacks to go through.
Basically, if you have an engineer or necro, or thief still using an attack that applies a condition, the attack itself will not do damage. You will take 0 power damage.
Every on crit effect or condition effect will go through and you can still end up with conditions ticking and being applied to you.

Unlike an elementalist with Mist form, or a guardian using Renewed Focus, where you become immune and invulnerable to new damage and/or condition application throughout its duration.

..I think it says that on the wiki…

Funny thing in this thread..
I think everyone who pvp’s with a mesmer, thief, MM necro, or engi is sitting here like..

“yes, the warriors are a problem, ignore us please”

fellyn.5083:

eleshazar.6902:

Jzaku.9765:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Totally agreed with this

Other classess make decisions to go either damage focused build or either tanky focused build. Which means if u go dps u gotta give up on defensive stats and if u go tanky build u gotta give up on offensive stats.. but look at Warriors? they can be tanky as hell while doing extremely high damage output without SACRIFICING any offensive nor defensive stats + DONT FORGET THEIR mobility as well.

“Btw Warriors can be beaten by well players” I agree with this. BUT Warriors have huge advantage having high mobility high damage/high bunkering stats which means you can beat them if u are a “good player” that knows what to do. Which tells u that even noob warriors can outplay other classess without requiring skills, but other players on different professions need certain amount of knowledge/understanding of that professions and skills to beat Warriors which is just unfair? and think about it which class will have advantage, if the player have the equal skills/control and understanding of the profession plays warrior or any other classess? its a fact that if the controller/player has the equal knowledge and skills, result will be determined by the profession’s items/stats. and right now which class got the highest hp/toughness/mobility while doing massive damage and tanks like truck? WARRIORS?

u are saying this is not OP?

Right, because going 20 into Defense traitline for Cleansing Ire, 30 if using Hammer, and taking a minimum of 2 Stances, which are clearly defensive utilities, is not sacrificing any offensive ability at all.

I would just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that there was a time when Ele was considered top tier and warriors were rock bottom. HP and Armour mean absolutely nothing. Warrior passive healing and cleansing could take a hit or two, but by no means are they earth-shakingly fundamentally OP by design.

Yeah I don’t think you get the meaning of sacrifice….

Those guards that go bunker. You should see their damage numbers some time. I’ve tried that build. You crit for 800. No not 8k, 800. A warrior can’t even see that low of a number even if they went all sentinel’s with no attributes in power/crit/or condi.

It isn’t about giving up a util slot or two, or maybe giving up 1k damage. It is about the fact that every other class that goes tanky cannot reliably dps when they do. You can still deal 4k crits as a warrior when you are tanky as all heck. THAT IS THE PROBLEM!

Warrior has none of the defensive tools that guardians have though. If guardians want to do damage and be tanky then they’ll have to give up their protection and aegis.

You act like each class should behave exactly the same. It would be helpful if you stop comparing in a 1v1 scenario because that’s not how anet does it and that’s not how the game is played.

Here comes the warrior “Protection and Aegis” thing again. For the record: “As a guardian I HATE those.” I would give them up in a heartbeat and give them to warriors. Aegis blocks 1 attack and can be shattered by even 1 dmg. I can trigger aegis once every 80 seconds on command which is the only time it is useful. ONCE EVERY 80 seconds. And you call that useful….

And as for protection… Unless you run hammer or mace/shield you have one skill that grants you protection, and it lasts for a few seconds. 33% damage reduction (not condi reduction) for a few seconds only if running a very specific build. Yup super useful. Try playing a class other than faceroll warrior before you call certain things equal. I would give up those two near useless things for your: high health, great condi cleanse, high damage, healing signet, regen adrenaline.

So please just stop…. I have both a warrior and a guardian, and I can literally smash my head on the keyboard and win with a warrior.

killahmayne.9518:

Are you kidding me? Distracting Strikes OP? Going condition damage or even hybrid with a hammer and pretty much lose most of your survivability? It’s called, not spamming skills when you have confusion on you and condition removal. Confusion doesn’t even do a lot of damage, especially at 4 stacks.

lol, and to think of that say for engi, 5stack x 5sec concusscion bomb is called a “burst”.