Guild Wars 2

Carighan.6758:

One thing I never understood is why a *MMO*RPG (of all possible RPG-subtypes) is so afraid to make classes entirely co-dependent? We are supposed to play together, it follows naturally to me that if alone I should face serious issues if up against anything that can exploit a team-dependent weakness I have.

For example as a Warrior, I should be night-unstoppable (lots of Stability, lots of defence, lots of raw HP), but I should not be graceful about it. I soak damage instead of avoiding it and I have issues getting into my favoured attack range and keeping enemies there.

To my allies I supply stability and various defensive effects.
From my allies I require holding the enemy in place and preventing whatever hard escape moves they could come up with.

This seems so… natural to me. And I would give each class such a weakness and such a shared strength, and make each class depend on 2-3 of these things from other classes.

Because co-dependency is not what people wanted when they came to GW2.
They came to GW2 to get rid of that dependency that other games enforce.
They came here so they can do well on their own and through their own means – it’s one of the core selling points of this game.

Concession: ele is harder to play than warrior.

Disagreement: Ele’s are more effective than warriors as roamers.

Common sense: Warriors and eles are different. They have a different set of strengths and weaknesses. They should not be able to do exactly the same things. At high level play, a good ele should beat a significant population of warriors. They should have a little trouble with high burst warriors, and kill most condi/hambow wars. This is how it is.

News Flash: a d/d ele is competitive or faster than standard warriors. RTL, lightning flash, perma swiftness and burning speed. A warrior would need to take a less useful weapon set or less useful utilities to keep up. They will outrun the ele in long distances if they have those less useful weapon sets.

Harper.4173:

ilr.9675:

Wethospu.6437:

Also, cloth armor should give 0 armor so I can one-shot everything.

This isn’t planet earth, it’s Tyria. Did you even read the Lore around Orr? Magic_ literally IS armor. Magic was how they moved 10x their own weight and infused monk robes against the deadliest PHYSICAL attack the Mursaat ever concocted. I also seem to recall Warrior having a shout that gave more armor than Armor gave.

I also want to point out that nomatter how much hemming and hawwing they do, the votes are clearly against them. Warriors in Gw1 had to choose between constant rush/33% or sustain. They didn’t get both plus IAS (DPS equiv here would be might) like they do in GW2. …okay they did for 1 season but, …P-rage got nerfed pretty quick by most standards.

But people are asking for a more “realistic” warrior that is slower- because of heavy armor.
So we’re asking for more “realistic” light and medium armor users that die in 1-2 hits/shots whatever.

Why not?

Also – don’t give us the GW1 argument – GW1 was a completely different game that only shares names and some lore with GW2. Apart from those class/ item names and some of the places being called the same this is an entirely different game with its own mechanics and game play.

But if you want to go to GW1 – stop eles from casting on the move. Remove stealth. Give us stowable pets. Remove the downed state – etc.

what u are saying = absurd..

even the devs said warrior’s mobility is a bit too much. Devs said they are not suppose to reset/run fights easily like thieves or an ele. Warrior’s concept was suppose to be more like tanky sustain that goes upfront and soaking up damage.

We are not asking to remove whole warrior’s mobile we are just saying it needs nerf/adjusment to it. Warrior is way too strong atm they dont need to give up anything to have everything they can be almost tanky as other classess wearing full soldier set with just berserker set. Dont say other classess can deal higher damage or be tankier than warrior because others have to give up on offensive or defensive to go either bunker or dps. and btw Warrior can be really super tank if u decided to go bunker more like they wont even die unless u gang up on it due to super high hp and crazy hp regen

MidoriMarch.8067:

even the devs said warrior’s mobility is a bit too much. Devs said they are not suppose to reset/run fights easily like thieves or an ele. Warrior’s concept was suppose to be more like tanky sustain that goes upfront and soaking up damage.

nope. they did not say that.

they dev said “the community thinks that the warrior mobility is a bit too much” please do not twist the words to your favor.

also, elementalist can tank and sustain better than warriors if they are build for that.

Harper.4173:

But people are asking for a more “realistic” warrior that is slower- because of heavy armor.
So we’re asking for more “realistic” light and medium armor users that die in 1-2 hits/shots whatever.

Nice try, but they don’t mean heavier as in more Armor, they mean heavier as in a lot more base Vitality and pretty much the most Base-damage of any class regardless of weapon. (along with might stacking plus Traits that just shed Conditions like crazy). And yes Gw1 does apply here b/c they had NO MEANS of combating Hexes yet all that control utility became the thing they’re among the best at resisting now. The devs already had to admit once (with the Mace fiasco) that giving a class that already has every possible other stat advantage in the game CC on top was just going way too far. It has nothing to do with what their armor looks like. And it doesn’t help their case that they’re the master of weapon swap which further enables this crud.

Seriously, if you honestly think that Gw1 and Gw2 don’t have some of the exact same balance mechanics then you clearly never played the first one at a competitive level.

MidoriMarch.8067:

Harper.4173:

ilr.9675:

Wethospu.6437:

Also, cloth armor should give 0 armor so I can one-shot everything.

This isn’t planet earth, it’s Tyria. Did you even read the Lore around Orr? Magic_ literally IS armor. Magic was how they moved 10x their own weight and infused monk robes against the deadliest PHYSICAL attack the Mursaat ever concocted. I also seem to recall Warrior having a shout that gave more armor than Armor gave.

I also want to point out that nomatter how much hemming and hawwing they do, the votes are clearly against them. Warriors in Gw1 had to choose between constant rush/33% or sustain. They didn’t get both plus IAS (DPS equiv here would be might) like they do in GW2. …okay they did for 1 season but, …P-rage got nerfed pretty quick by most standards.

But people are asking for a more “realistic” warrior that is slower- because of heavy armor.
So we’re asking for more “realistic” light and medium armor users that die in 1-2 hits/shots whatever.

Why not?

Also – don’t give us the GW1 argument – GW1 was a completely different game that only shares names and some lore with GW2. Apart from those class/ item names and some of the places being called the same this is an entirely different game with its own mechanics and game play.

But if you want to go to GW1 – stop eles from casting on the move. Remove stealth. Give us stowable pets. Remove the downed state – etc.

what u are saying = absurd..

even the devs said warrior’s mobility is a bit too much. Devs said they are not suppose to reset/run fights easily like thieves or an ele. Warrior’s concept was suppose to be more like tanky sustain that goes upfront and soaking up damage.

We are not asking to remove whole warrior’s mobile we are just saying it needs nerf/adjusment to it. Warrior is way too strong atm they dont need to give up anything to have everything they can be almost tanky as other classess wearing full soldier set with just berserker set. Dont say other classess can deal higher damage or be tankier than warrior because others have to give up on offensive or defensive to go either bunker or dps. and btw Warrior can be really super tank if u decided to go bunker more like they wont even die unless u gang up on it due to super high hp and crazy hp regen

The devs said that “you guys feel warrior’s mobility is a bit too high” – that’s how they said it in the video – they didn’t add their specific perspective.

Tanky sustain that goes up front and soaks up damage is great but when you get kited to death that doesn’t work.
There’s a lot of classes that will chew right through you – so I’d rather we didn’t become a free kill just to satisfy your vision of what warrior “should be”.

they can be almost tanky as other classess wearing full soldier set with just berserker set.

Do you have any evidence or numbers to support this claim?

ilr.9675:

Harper.4173:

But people are asking for a more “realistic” warrior that is slower- because of heavy armor.
So we’re asking for more “realistic” light and medium armor users that die in 1-2 hits/shots whatever.

Nice try, but they don’t mean heavier as in more Armor, they mean heavier as in a lot more base Vitality and pretty much the most Base-damage of any class regardless of weapon. (along with might stacking plus Traits that just shed Conditions like crazy). And yes Gw1 does apply here b/c they had NO MEANS of combating Hexes yet all that control utility became the thing they’re among the best at resisting now. The devs already had to admit once (with the Mace fiasco) that giving a class that already has every possible other stat advantage in the game CC on top was just going way too far. It has nothing to do with what their armor looks like. And it doesn’t help their case that they’re the master of weapon swap which further enables this crud.

Seriously, if you honestly think that Gw1 and Gw2 don’t have some of the exact same balance mechanics then you clearly never played the first one at a competitive level.

Actually I think that’s exactly what they mean – they’re looking from the “archetype” point of view. It’s been brought up in numerous threads meaning exactly what I wrote it meant.

Guild Wars 1 was a completely different game with completely different mechanics. Bringing it up as an example of how balance should be given how distinctly different from this game it is really proves that you don’t really understand a lot about balance and game mechanics to begin with.

I want to have my permanent companion (stowable), 3 greathammer wielding phantasms (cc+critz), permastealth, condition imunity when >90% and <80% hp, burst combos for 35k damage (armor ignoring and within <1s ofc), insane healskill independant sustain, at least 3 teleports, 4 weaponsets, 14 extra skillpoints, fear damage, spammable boon stealing along with having every boon at max stacks/duration and an extra block/evade every second.

The OP said warriors have everything, so it must be true.

Edith: Forgot to mention I want my pocket FGS, but with less cd and more pew pew pl0x

http://youtu.be/y8i7M7d2FwM

Watch this ^

I can’t see a necro, Mesmer or even an elementalust do this.

Holl.3109:

http://youtu.be/y8i7M7d2FwM

Watch this ^

I can’t see a necro, Mesmer or even an elementalust do this.

Do what? Run away so long that the enemy gets spread away from each other and then kill them one by one because the warrior was build around quick burst and single target control?

You do realize that if the chasers wouldn’t have spreaded from each other so much they would have taken the warrior down in matter of seconds. Check the damage they do to him, 2k to 3k hits.

The warrior baited and made the fools to follow him over half of the map. Made couple of them stuck / slowed down in the mill camp and then killed them as they came solo. Also the thieves were burning a lot of initiative and cooldowns to catch the warrior.

Conclusion. The warrior played just as the build was made to be played. Running around, spreading the enemy and taking them quickly out when they are alone. While the enemy was doing bad moves all around, burning initiative, cooldowns and coming one by one facing bursty zerker warrior.

Edit: And of course you don’t see necro, mesmer or ele do that because they don’t have such a build that is made around running and taking out single targets quickly.

Paavotar.3971:

Holl.3109:

http://youtu.be/y8i7M7d2FwM

Watch this ^

I can’t see a necro, Mesmer or even an elementalust do this.

Do what? Run away so long that the enemy gets spread away from each other and then kill them one by one because the warrior was build around quick burst and single target control?

You do realize that if the chasers wouldn’t have spreaded from each other so much they would have taken the warrior down in matter of seconds. Check the damage they do to him, 2k to 3k hits.

The warrior baited and made the fools to follow him over half of the map. Made couple of them stuck / slowed down in the mill camp and then killed them as they came solo. Also the thieves were burning a lot of initiative and cooldowns to catch the warrior.

Conclusion. The warrior played just as the build was made to be played. Running around, spreading the enemy and taking them quickly out when they are alone. While the enemy was doing bad moves all around, burning initiative, cooldowns and coming one by one facing bursty zerker warrior.

Edit: And of course you don’t see necro, mesmer or ele do that because they don’t have such a build that is made around running and taking out single targets quickly.

But did you his mobility? Nice build, but Im not talking about that… It’s about the mobility. Why does a HEAVY armor class get that kind of mobility but a light armored caster doesn’t have that option?

Holl.3109:

Paavotar.3971:

Holl.3109:

http://youtu.be/y8i7M7d2FwM

Watch this ^

I can’t see a necro, Mesmer or even an elementalust do this.

Do what? Run away so long that the enemy gets spread away from each other and then kill them one by one because the warrior was build around quick burst and single target control?

You do realize that if the chasers wouldn’t have spreaded from each other so much they would have taken the warrior down in matter of seconds. Check the damage they do to him, 2k to 3k hits.

The warrior baited and made the fools to follow him over half of the map. Made couple of them stuck / slowed down in the mill camp and then killed them as they came solo. Also the thieves were burning a lot of initiative and cooldowns to catch the warrior.

Conclusion. The warrior played just as the build was made to be played. Running around, spreading the enemy and taking them quickly out when they are alone. While the enemy was doing bad moves all around, burning initiative, cooldowns and coming one by one facing bursty zerker warrior.

Edit: And of course you don’t see necro, mesmer or ele do that because they don’t have such a build that is made around running and taking out single targets quickly.

But did you his mobility? Nice build, but Im not talking about that… It’s about the mobility. Why does a HEAVY armor class get that kind of mobility but a light armored caster doesn’t have that option?

Why do you people keep bringing up heavy armor like it means anything?

Because if you’re talking “realism”, then go home. It’s a fantasy game, doesn’t work like that. Not to mention that there are realism-based arguments that would justify Warrior (and Guardian, btw) being the most mobile professions while light armors would be the slowest.

If you think that heavy armor gives warrior any kind of noteworthy combat-related advantage, then why are you not talking about the other heavy armor class, Guardian?

And for the record, the opponents in that video were trash. They did not even try to use any kind of CC on the warrior. And who the heck plays D/D thief as a roamer anyway? Also you should note that since he uses GS and Sword/Shield, he would be extremely vulnerable to conditions due to Cleansing Ire being easy to deal with when you’re not using Longbow. Slap a blind on him, unload some condis, done. A P/D thief could solo this guy over and over.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Khalic.3561:

It seems reasonable for rush to receive the same treatment as RTL.

nope. not reasonable at all.
not even close.

Rush
- runs 1200 forward physically
- runs to target within 1200 range
- slowed by crippled, chilled
- stopped by immobilize and various control effects

Ride the Lightning
- 2 seconds of ride the lightning transform effect
- move 600 units per second
- effect only ends if knocked down / burst down or reached target early

rush can be very easily countered while ride the lightning is not.

control effect on warrior….erm stability stability and combined stability with stability for free for warrior, condi chilled…lolololololol erm warrior lemongrass, warrior is barely affected by condis….

rush does hardly ever get countered ever. cause warrior will pop stab anyways so control effects useless.

warriors always outrun everyone in wvw, by far!

Problem with food.

Nerf warrior.

I think you nailed it.

Wethospu.6437:

Problem with food.

Nerf warrior.

I think you nailed it.

without food wars condi cleanse is already great with food they are barely affected by anything. and yes lemongrass needs to be looked at ….
and no im not saying that because of that a war shoul get nerfed. war should get nerfed cause atm they have too much of everything. they should have to choose and not get everything without big effort.

selan.8354:

they should have to choose and not get everything without big effort.

they already have to choose.
they do not get everything without big effort.

please stop spreading the 6/6/6/6/6 warrior build with 4 weapon sets okay?

warriors do not have everything.

MidoriMarch.8067:

Harper.4173:

ilr.9675:

Wethospu.6437:

Also, cloth armor should give 0 armor so I can one-shot everything.

This isn’t planet earth, it’s Tyria. Did you even read the Lore around Orr? Magic_ literally IS armor. Magic was how they moved 10x their own weight and infused monk robes against the deadliest PHYSICAL attack the Mursaat ever concocted. I also seem to recall Warrior having a shout that gave more armor than Armor gave.

I also want to point out that nomatter how much hemming and hawwing they do, the votes are clearly against them. Warriors in Gw1 had to choose between constant rush/33% or sustain. They didn’t get both plus IAS (DPS equiv here would be might) like they do in GW2. …okay they did for 1 season but, …P-rage got nerfed pretty quick by most standards.

But people are asking for a more “realistic” warrior that is slower- because of heavy armor.
So we’re asking for more “realistic” light and medium armor users that die in 1-2 hits/shots whatever.

Why not?

Also – don’t give us the GW1 argument – GW1 was a completely different game that only shares names and some lore with GW2. Apart from those class/ item names and some of the places being called the same this is an entirely different game with its own mechanics and game play.

But if you want to go to GW1 – stop eles from casting on the move. Remove stealth. Give us stowable pets. Remove the downed state – etc.

what u are saying = absurd..

even the devs said warrior’s mobility is a bit too much. Devs said they are not suppose to reset/run fights easily like thieves or an ele. Warrior’s concept was suppose to be more like tanky sustain that goes upfront and soaking up damage.

We are not asking to remove whole warrior’s mobile we are just saying it needs nerf/adjusment to it. Warrior is way too strong atm they dont need to give up anything to have everything they can be almost tanky as other classess wearing full soldier set with just berserker set. Dont say other classess can deal higher damage or be tankier than warrior because others have to give up on offensive or defensive to go either bunker or dps. and btw Warrior can be really super tank if u decided to go bunker more like they wont even die unless u gang up on it due to super high hp and crazy hp regen

In other words this whole thread is about nerfing the warrior to a point that is back the way it was before? You want to be able to kite them to death right? easy kill?.

hey guyz i can do this too,

mesmers are the REAL op class, perma protection, aegis, regen, phantasms that hit for 4k each, 8 condi’s cleansed every 15 seconds, chaining up to 15 seconds of invuln at a time, AND on top of that they can easily get 10+ stacks of bleed, torment, confusion easily. oh and almost perma stealth too.

how op is that kitten? nerf mesmers.

oh wait.. i forgot mesmers don’t have 30 trait points to spend, and they can’t carry 4 sets of weapons.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

nope. they did not say that.

they dev said “the community thinks that the warrior mobility is a bit too much” please do not twist the words to your favor.

also, elementalist can tank and sustain better than warriors if they are build for that.

Perhaps you should not twist things around yourself. Because immediately after that they suggested they were in agreement with the community on that matter.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

nope. they did not say that.

they dev said “the community thinks that the warrior mobility is a bit too much” please do not twist the words to your favor.

also, elementalist can tank and sustain better than warriors if they are build for that.

Perhaps you should not twist things around yourself. Because immediately after that they suggested they were in agreement with the community on that matter.

that is very unfortunate.

again, they choose to listen to the minority few.

before even talking bout gs and sword, let’s get into the 90% swiftness.

Olba.5376:

Why do you people keep bringing up heavy armor like it means anything?

Because if you’re talking “realism”, then go home. It’s a fantasy game, doesn’t work like that. Not to mention that there are realism-based arguments that would justify Warrior (and Guardian, btw) being the most mobile professions while light armors would be the slowest.

If you think that heavy armor gives warrior any kind of noteworthy combat-related advantage, then why are you not talking about the other heavy armor class, Guardian?

Well it seems to me it was self explanatory with a little applied common sense, but guardians have massively smaller health pools, only a extremely small portion of mobility compared to the warrior, require extremely more investment in a build to do the same damage, no where near the warriors potential for condition damage out put, and significantly more condition cleansing.

Olba.5376:

And for the record, the opponents in that video were trash. They did not even try to use any kind of CC on the warrior.

Lie much? Did you watch the video? Between the two of them they cast cripple, immobilize, and chill over 48 times in the 5 minute video. As well a few ill times knock backs. They were all either blocked, ignored by stability or broken with “mobile strike”.

Olba.5376:

And who the heck plays D/D thief as a roamer anyway?

Roaming? The warrior was roaming, not the thief. The thief and ele were making a supply run and saw the solo/mobility warrior trying to flip their supply camp.

Olba.5376:

Also you should note that since he uses GS and Sword/Shield, he would be extremely vulnerable to conditions due to Cleansing Ire being easy to deal with when you’re not using Longbow. Slap a blind on him, unload some condis, done. A P/D thief could solo this guy over and over.

You mean condition damage I assume, because the build is nearly immune to mobility hindering conditions.

WTH is a blind going to do to a warrior in that build who can out run anyone and is not required to fight? Using it in this context makes no sense.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

that is very unfortunate.

again, they choose to listen to the minority few.

A. You seem to confuse your terms, they didn’t listen to the “minority” they listed to “reason” .

B The subject matter has almost more threads pointing out its over powered problems then any other subject, with hundreds and in some cases thousands of post per thread. Of all of the threads discussion legitimate problems, it seems this one falls in the majority of real problems with complaints.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

they already have to choose.
they do not get everything without big effort.

I love your out look here. You back up your stance by claiming warriors “need effort” to get everything, yet no matter how much we atempt to educate you, you fail to acknowledge other professions do not even have access to everything.

dancingmonkey.4902:

WTH is a blind going to do to a warrior in that build who can out run anyone and is not required to fight? Using it in this context makes no sense.

the point was you blind the warrior if he decides to fight, and condi him to death, without using lb or a shout build you will die to any condi build that’s played by an equal skill player. if he just runs, who cares? note that if you run lb, you give up your mobility completely. and if you use a shout build to deal with conditions, you give up melandrus and stances.

this same argument has been made about perma stealth d/p thieves already, yeah you’ll never catch or kill a good one, but who cares if they just run?

Exactly, thieves do not have the armor, health or mobility of, for example, that warrior. I am glad you pointed that out. Thanks.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Exactly, thieves do not have the armor, health or mobility of, for example, that warrior. I am glad you pointed that out. Thanks.

they dont have the armor or health, but they certainly do have the mobility, both in combat and out of combat. they also have stealth, so you can’t perfectly evade their attacks like you can a warrior.

infact thieves and mesmers have better in combat mobility than warriors by far, since blinks are far superior than what warriors have.

That is odd. Blink is 900 range on a 30s CD and requires a utility slot and a targeting effort. Rush is 1200 range, requires no targeting of any kind, is on a 20s CD, requires not utility slot, and does damage.

You certainly have an irregular definition of “better”.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Exactly, thieves do not have the armor, health or mobility of, for example, that warrior. I am glad you pointed that out. Thanks.

wait wut? Thieves don’t have the same mobility? yeah they do have perma stealth, perma evade and perma swiftness, but they don’t have mobility? LOL

xbutcherx.3861:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Exactly, thieves do not have the armor, health or mobility of, for example, that warrior. I am glad you pointed that out. Thanks.

wait wut? Thieves don’t have the same mobility? yeah they do have perma stealth, perma evade and perma swiftness, but they don’t have mobility? LOL

I suggested they do not have the health, or armor with mobility. Warriors get all of the above. You misunderstood my meaning.

dancingmonkey.4902:

That is odd. Blink is 900 range on a 30s CD and requires a utility slot and a targeting effort. Rush is 1200 range, requires no targeting of any kind, is on a 20s CD, requires not utility slot, and does damage.

You certainly have an irregular definition of “better”.

I wonder what do you play? looking at all your posts, you complain about every profession but ranger.

dancingmonkey.4902:

That is odd. Blink is 900 range on a 30s CD and requires a utility slot and a targeting effort. Rush is 1200 range, requires no targeting of any kind, is on a 20s CD, requires not utility slot, and does damage.

You certainly have an irregular definition of “better”.

i would take blink over rush for in combat mobility, the reasoning is pretty simple, you can see rush coming from a mile away, and dodge it easily. blink is instant. which would you rather do? rush -> eviscerate, or blink next to the guy and eviscerate? the choice is simple.

and the verdict as far as land speed goes iirc, thieves barely edge out warriors for ooc speed

xbutcherx.3861:

dancingmonkey.4902:

That is odd. Blink is 900 range on a 30s CD and requires a utility slot and a targeting effort. Rush is 1200 range, requires no targeting of any kind, is on a 20s CD, requires not utility slot, and does damage.

You certainly have an irregular definition of “better”.

I wonder what do you play? looking at all your posts, you complain about every profession but ranger.

I have had my complaints about issues I see when I play my ranger. You clearly are making blind statements without actually having looked, but that is neither here nor there.

I have leveled all 8 professions in a combination of WvW+PvP. I have a Pin on all 8 and command with them in WvW. When I pin I tend to use my warrior or engineer, but I have commanded on each several times, but I rotate regularly between professions depending on the needs. I play sPvP regularly as well with varying profession on my guild teams.

I wonder what do you play? looking at all your posts, you complain about every profession.

dancingmonkey.4902:

xbutcherx.3861:

dancingmonkey.4902:

That is odd. Blink is 900 range on a 30s CD and requires a utility slot and a targeting effort. Rush is 1200 range, requires no targeting of any kind, is on a 20s CD, requires not utility slot, and does damage.

You certainly have an irregular definition of “better”.

I wonder what do you play? looking at all your posts, you complain about every profession but ranger.

I have had my complaints about issues I see when I play my ranger. You clearly are making blind statements without actually having looked, but that is neither here nor there.

I have leveled all 8 professions in a combination of WvW+PvP. I have a Pin on all 8 and command with them in WvW. When I pin I tend to use my warrior or engineer, but I have commanded on each several times, but I rotate regularly between professions depending on the needs. I play sPvP regularly as well with varying profession on my guild teams.

I wonder what do you play? looking at all your posts, you complain about every profession.

LOL seriously? Yeah you play a ranger and no I don’t complain about any class whatsoever, read my posts again and probably you will see that mostly is warrior because I play a warrior and I been playing warrior since close Beta, remember when was a free kill? yeah you do remember.
Anyways I just laugh at all the complains there are for every class but one..guess?

Warrior mobility is too much. I always thought the cloth classes would hit hardest (but be squishy). Medium would have the best movement (typical of a thief or ranger) and the heavies would be pokey but very tanky/melee.

I don’t mind violating the MMO “rules” but there should be a reason the warrior can escape with the best of them. I’m not seeing the need. If anything, I’m seeing that this is on the wrong class!

dancingmonkey.4902:

1. Well it seems to me it was self explanatory with a little applied common sense, but guardians have massively smaller health pools, only a extremely small portion of mobility compared to the warrior, require extremely more investment in a build to do the same damage, no where near the warriors potential for condition damage out put, and significantly more condition cleansing.
2. Lie much? Did you watch the video? Between the two of them they cast cripple, immobilize, and chill over 48 times in the 5 minute video. As well a few ill times knock backs. They were all either blocked, ignored by stability or broken with “mobile strike”.
3. Roaming? The warrior was roaming, not the thief. The thief and ele were making a supply run and saw the solo/mobility warrior trying to flip their supply camp.
4. WTH is a blind going to do to a warrior in that build who can out run anyone and is not required to fight? Using it in this context makes no sense.

1. So it’s not heavy armor that you have issues with, but everything else about how a Warrior is structured. Then stop talking about heavy armor already!
2. He has one stability skill that is on a 40s cooldown. Mobile Strikes only applies to Immobilize. Also he’s got just one stunbreak. Bait the stability, stun him, done. And yet that did not happen.
3. Regardless, D/D is a waste of space unless you’re picking distracted single players in a zerg.
4. Blind is going to make him miss his burst skills, which would disallow him from cleansing conditions with his weaponset, thus killing him very swiftly. But no, let’s instead send in a group of direct damage DDs that don’t use any stuns.

Also, the people in that video eat 100 blades like it was their favorite candy.

bigmonto.4215:

dancingmonkey.4902:

So you entire logic cycle here is that warriors mobility is not OP because the thiefs mobility + stealth is more OP ?

Got to love the logic of a warrior main defending the illogical to the death.

Lets face it logic is not exactly your strong suit. And no, I never said whether warrior’s current mobility is OPed or not. In fact I would agreed that a GS warrior’s mobility is better than some others. I did say GS as a whole is not OPed though.

My logic however is that if people are that focused on the ability for a class to disengage combat, they should more focus on thief and mesmer and possibly ele. Warrior is at best 4th out of 8, and he has to equips GS. Your focus on warrior seems illogical while there are much bigger issues in the wvw roaming mode.

Whether or not you personally feel the ability to disengage or display high mobility is an issue on other professions, with lower armor and health, does not justify the warriors having obvious over powering factors.

If you take issue with thieves, ele’s, or mesmers, then bring them up in the appropriate threads.

As i see it, the mobility is one of the factors that compounds with too many others, that cause the profession to be OP. It does not appear to me to be thematically in line with the profession. As well, it does not seem reasonable to me that the warrior should have access to such mobility in a build that offers as much as many many builds can do.

so far this is what I get from all the posts I have read, for warrior: please remove healing signet, nerf mobility, nerf burst damage, lower pool hp, lower armor, nerf condition removal, nerf CC, lower damage, let’s see what else… oh stability nerf, weapon swap nerf, multiples weapons choice nerf… and going and going.
Why just not create a thread “Remove warrior profession” and get over it.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Actually in the class discussion ready up, the devs stated the game was only balanced pre-release, around PvP and that every change or discussion after that takes balance or applicability of all three game modes.

If you believe this, I got some swampland in Florida to sell you. If it was taking the applicability of all 3 game modes, Stealth would have already been reworked, Warriors would have some weaknesses still, Rangers would actually be more useful than they are now (they’re bottom of the barrel), the condition meta wouldn’t be so prevalent in PvP, etc.

xbutcherx.3861:

so far this is what I get from all the posts I have read, for warrior: please remove healing signet, nerf mobility, nerf burst damage, lower pool hp, lower armor, nerf condition removal, nerf CC, lower damage, let’s see what else…
Why just not create a thread “Remove warrior profession” and get over it.

This is what I’d prefer:

-exchange how Adrenal health works with the signet so the signet is based on the actual adrenaline level you have, except it ticks once every 3 seconds. Give the signet’s active the ability to heal as it does now while removing 2 conditions. The trait would now give a set 400HP back every 10 seconds. Signet and trait balanced.

-give Rush the RtL treatment and give it a higher cooldown unless you hit something with it. Insane mobility fixed.

-give CC an across the board change in how it works, along with an immunity buff for it separate from stability that pops up after you get CC’d 1-2 times. The immunity buff gets more potent the more times you’re hit with CC while it’s on. CC fixed for all classes (this isn’t just a warrior problem, it’s an across the board problem)

-adjust Cleansing Ire so it has an ICD of 10-15 seconds. Insane condi-clear fixed.

RyuDragnier.9476:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Actually in the class discussion ready up, the devs stated the game was only balanced pre-release, around PvP and that every change or discussion after that takes balance or applicability of all three game modes.

If you believe this, I got some swampland in Florida to sell you. If it was taking the applicability of all 3 game modes, Stealth would have already been reworked, Warriors would have some weaknesses still, Rangers would actually be more useful than they are now (they’re bottom of the barrel), the condition meta wouldn’t be so prevalent in PvP, etc.

xbutcherx.3861:

so far this is what I get from all the posts I have read, for warrior: please remove healing signet, nerf mobility, nerf burst damage, lower pool hp, lower armor, nerf condition removal, nerf CC, lower damage, let’s see what else…
Why just not create a thread “Remove warrior profession” and get over it.

This is what I’d prefer:

-exchange how Adrenal health works with the signet so the signet is based on the actual adrenaline level you have, except it ticks once every 3 seconds. Give the signet’s active the ability to heal as it does now while removing 2 conditions. The trait would now give a set 400HP back every 10 seconds. Signet and trait balanced.

-give Rush the RtL treatment and give it a higher cooldown unless you hit something with it. Insane mobility fixed.

-give CC an across the board change in how it works, along with an immunity buff for it separate from stability that pops up after you get CC’d 1-2 times. The immunity buff gets more potent the more times you’re hit with CC while it’s on. CC fixed for all classes (this isn’t just a warrior problem, it’s an across the board problem)

-adjust Cleansing Ire so it has an ICD of 10-15 seconds. Insane condi-clear fixed.

in other words you just nerfing 4 skills at once? Once again why don’t just delete the profession? You people just want to nerf on all and I meant all the builds a warrior uses.

xbutcherx.3861:

in other words you just nerfing 4 skills at once? Once again why don’t just delete the profession? You people just want to nerf on all and I meant all the builds a warrior uses.

Healing signet and Adrenal Health trait changes I suggested are a balance change. The trait is powerful alone, the signet is overkill. Switch them around, and the signet becomes a double-edged sword. Sure you can have that insane healing ability…but if you use that adrenaline, you lose it. Though I admit the change to Cleansing Ire probably wouldn’t be needed at that point then, since it turns into an actual tactical decision.

coglin.1867:

bigmonto.4215:

dancingmonkey.4902:

So you entire logic cycle here is that warriors mobility is not OP because the thiefs mobility + stealth is more OP ?

Got to love the logic of a warrior main defending the illogical to the death.

Lets face it logic is not exactly your strong suit. And no, I never said whether warrior’s current mobility is OPed or not. In fact I would agreed that a GS warrior’s mobility is better than some others. I did say GS as a whole is not OPed though.

My logic however is that if people are that focused on the ability for a class to disengage combat, they should more focus on thief and mesmer and possibly ele. Warrior is at best 4th out of 8, and he has to equips GS. Your focus on warrior seems illogical while there are much bigger issues in the wvw roaming mode.

Whether or not you personally feel the ability to disengage or display high mobility is an issue on other professions, with lower armor and health, does not justify the warriors having obvious over powering factors.

If you take issue with thieves, ele’s, or mesmers, then bring them up in the appropriate threads.

As i see it, the mobility is one of the factors that compounds with too many others, that cause the profession to be OP. It does not appear to me to be thematically in line with the profession. As well, it does not seem reasonable to me that the warrior should have access to such mobility in a build that offers as much as many many builds can do.

As I mentioned in previous post, if you ask anyone in this post they will say they have no problem with warriors. I do agree that in low level play, warrior is powerful, but in any level higher, it is simply decent. If you do have problem with them, maybe the issue is between your screen and your chair.

Warrior mobility comes from GS. GS is not a powerful weapon to begin with. It has issues. By choosing GS, warrior specifically spec mobility and make trade-off with damage and control not to mention its completely useless burst, and give up large chunk of his ability to cleanse conditions. By choosing GS the warrior is trying to be like a thief, he is not trying to stick it out. He wants to get in and get out. You have to keep in mind Warrior is just a fighter. In this game you can choose how you want to fight.

And the argument regarding mesmer + thief + ele is to question the validity of complain. Base on what I gather people mostly have problem with warrior’s ability to disengage. There are at least 2 more powerful class with ease of disengage than a warrior, and at least 3 classes that can disengage easier. A focus on warrior does not make sense.

RyuDragnier.9476:

xbutcherx.3861:

in other words you just nerfing 4 skills at once? Once again why don’t just delete the profession? You people just want to nerf on all and I meant all the builds a warrior uses.

Healing signet and Adrenal Health trait changes I suggested are a balance change. The trait is powerful alone, the signet is overkill. Switch them around, and the signet becomes a double-edged sword. Sure you can have that insane healing ability…but if you use that adrenaline, you lose it. Though I admit the change to Cleansing Ire probably wouldn’t be needed at that point then, since it turns into an actual tactical decision.

It is not, is you use the healing trait you can’t use your burst, if you use your burst you can’t use the trait. IT IS A TRADE OFF! oh but thief condition removal is ok? perma stealth with perma condition romoval.

My advice is that this is WvW, which is horribly unbalanced anyway so it doesnt matter.

I agree that Warrior was far too much mobility. I would shred their mobility to be on par with rangers at the very most. But in PvP, their mobility is not an issue… with the current gamemode. I dread to think of the Q_Q that might result of Anet introduced a pure deathmatch type environment where thieves and warriors just ran away everytime you were about to score a point, but I digress.

I play as a guard and a thief, so i see both sides of the coin. As a guard, I have rubbish HP so am forced to invest in that to compete in WvW zerging, which utterly ruins any chance of me being able to roam effectively solo. As a thief, I must invest almost totally into zerker stats, and have absolutely no toughness to make my class effective in it’s role. I get 2 shot by fully buffed warriors, no joke. Luckily, most warriors are just food to practically any thief build at the moment as long as the thief is a good and patient player. As a guard, I have no real mobility outside of swiftness (which is useless when you are moving at “fighting speed” anyway) and my GS 3, which isn’t a huge amount of mobility, certainly not enough to outrun um…. every other single class in the game? Most warriors I come across I can wear down to a killable range before they fly away at 2,000 unis per second leaving my standing there thinking “what a waste of time”. This is pretty kitten tedious for a class that does nothing but faceroll into you for 90% of any fight. They get the easy fight and they get the easy escape, it is thoughtless and, sorry to say it, totally boring to fight against.

As far as I see it the warrior players are split into two camps (and keep in mind i know a lot of people who main warrior, I am not being biased, i play pvp, not so much wvw so i don’t have any actual investment in this, emotional or otherwise!)
The first camp comprimises people who play warrior for fun. They know the class is easy, they go around in wvw using as much mobility as possible cos they know it’s OP and they want to play as an OP class for a little while. Have a chat with them about it and they are usually very tongue in cheek about the warrior. Fair enough.

The second set is more a set that concerns me. They are absolutely refusing the move on the fact that the warrior has just got a TINY LITTLE INSY WINSY TEENY WEENY MINI WINI little bit too much of everything now. I don’t really get this. Speak to any other class any they will usually admit the aspects of their class or build that are a little bit OP. I admit Guardians fully invested into bunkering are a bit too “boony”, and that s/d thieves are too strong 1v1 now with all that crazy evading and the ridiculously strong full traited steal. In fact, I think it would be good if there was a slight nerf to the trickery line in someway…

Why do so many warriors refuse to admit the aspects of their class that are too strong? People aren’t necessarily saying remove all mobility, they are saying it is not fair that the warrior is currently the fastest class in the game alongside thief. Oh except a thief that chases a warrior basically has no initiative and all his stepping utilities on cooldown so gl once the warrior decides to turn around at the wrong moment.
This is the problem. It is a class that is strong in all areas, relatively, that can also dictate which fights it enters, and which fights it can leave. Any screw ups can be mitigated with stances, shield 4 then the warrior usually has some kind of cool down off so he can tail it out of there.
It’s like playing a thief with no risk but no stealth. I don’t really get the design around it at the moment, it is a class that has no proper direction I feel.

Is that a fair assessment? I dunno, I think it is probably true for more than just the warrior at the moment as well.

bigmonto.4215:

And the argument regarding mesmer + thief + ele is to question the validity of complain. Base on what I gather people mostly have problem with warrior’s ability to disengage. There are at least 2 more powerful class with ease of disengage than a warrior, and at least 3 classes that can disengage easier. A focus on warrior does not make sense.

From what I see, and my own personal experience, people have an issue with the mobility being used for general travel, for disengaging , AND for an imbalance it causes that permits the highest health pool+highest defense+great condi clear+good damage+health regen+solid CC all in a single build.

A focus on warrior makes perfect sense. The fact of how many thousands of players have spoken out about this as a problem makes that evident.

coglin.1867:

bigmonto.4215:

And the argument regarding mesmer + thief + ele is to question the validity of complain. Base on what I gather people mostly have problem with warrior’s ability to disengage. There are at least 2 more powerful class with ease of disengage than a warrior, and at least 3 classes that can disengage easier. A focus on warrior does not make sense.

From what I see, and my own personal experience, people have an issue with the mobility being used for general travel, for disengaging , AND for an imbalance it causes that permits the highest health pool+highest defense+great condi clear+good damage+health regen+solid CC all in a single build.

A focus on warrior makes perfect sense. The fact of how many thousands of players have spoken out about this as a problem makes that evident.

Oh I want to be that warrior with 6/6/6/6/6 and 6 weapons sets to swap.

You seem to misunderstand. Every other profession needs needs a 6/6/6/6/6 build to do that. Warrior can do it in 14 points with s/s + GS.

0/6/4/0/4 does this rather proficiently.

coglin.1867:

bigmonto.4215:

And the argument regarding mesmer + thief + ele is to question the validity of complain. Base on what I gather people mostly have problem with warrior’s ability to disengage. There are at least 2 more powerful class with ease of disengage than a warrior, and at least 3 classes that can disengage easier. A focus on warrior does not make sense.

From what I see, and my own personal experience, people have an issue with the mobility being used for general travel, for disengaging , AND for an imbalance it causes that permits the highest health pool+highest defense+great condi clear+good damage+health regen+solid CC all in a single build.

A focus on warrior makes perfect sense. The fact of how many thousands of players have spoken out about this as a problem makes that evident.

Many thousands.
More like a few dozen.
The same few.

No, it is clearly several thousand. “The same few”, are the hardcore warriors who prefer to stay OP and defend being OP with their last breath, instead of exploring actual knowledge through experience of the other professions, and conceding a reasonable and needed change in at least one area.

It always comes to that same argument ….

So every single warriors are smacking your kitten then? After all our 14-point-build is == to your 6/6/6/6/6 build.

dancingmonkey.4902:

No, it is clearly several thousand. “The same few”, are the hardcore warriors who prefer to stay OP and defend being OP with their last breath, instead of exploring actual knowledge through experience of the other professions, and conceding a reasonable and needed change in at least one area.

Sorry but as a warrior that has been playing for a long time, after I was a free kill to now that is more balance, I still encounter people that actually pvp and know how to pvp, and I bet those people don’t think warrior is nowhere close to be OP, in fact a good player can beat warrior easily. Also I have a 80 necro, 80 thief and 80 ele, I play my thief in sPVP and warriors are no close to be an issue for me.

I Play a warrior in PvP. As well I play every other profession there. Almost every top end player who plays a warrior, including myself, openly states that they feel the warrior is highly over tuned.

You are using a very odd argument to suggest a good player can beat a warrior. A good player can beat anyone on any profession that is not good as them.

I have leveled every profession in PvP to 80 now. My experience and those of other players i speak too completely disagree with you. I believe if you spent a significant amount of time actually experiencing the other profession, you would probably be aware of the actual issue.