Guild Wars 2

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Atherakhia.4086:

Conditions.

Remove berserker stance. Make it do 25% more damage and reduce armor by 25%.
Attach condi immunity to healing signet. Slowly drains available adrenaline until out of adrenaline. Immune to condis while it’s up. 3 adrenaline a second drained.

I’ve solved the Warrior class.

0.o
Have you seen how much adrenaline generation warriors have? With this they would quite literally be permanently immune to conditions as long as they are either hitting or being hit if they took cleansing ire and signet of rage, and possibly one other generation trait. I don’t think this would really make them weak to conditions…

You’ve never actually played a Warrior I take it?

1 to 3 conditions removed every 8 seconds somehow makes Warriors immune :/

Atherakhia.4086:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Atherakhia.4086:

Conditions.

Remove berserker stance. Make it do 25% more damage and reduce armor by 25%.
Attach condi immunity to healing signet. Slowly drains available adrenaline until out of adrenaline. Immune to condis while it’s up. 3 adrenaline a second drained.

I’ve solved the Warrior class.

0.o
Have you seen how much adrenaline generation warriors have? With this they would quite literally be permanently immune to conditions as long as they are either hitting or being hit if they took cleansing ire and signet of rage, and possibly one other generation trait. I don’t think this would really make them weak to conditions…

You’ve never actually played a Warrior I take it?

1 to 3 conditions removed every 8 seconds somehow makes Warriors immune :/

Berserker’s stance and 98% movement condition reduction would be the ~immunity.

But on a side note, what other class do you know of that can remove 3 conditions every 8 seconds with a single skill and trait?

Black Box.9312:

Atherakhia.4086:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Atherakhia.4086:

Conditions.

Remove berserker stance. Make it do 25% more damage and reduce armor by 25%.
Attach condi immunity to healing signet. Slowly drains available adrenaline until out of adrenaline. Immune to condis while it’s up. 3 adrenaline a second drained.

I’ve solved the Warrior class.

0.o
Have you seen how much adrenaline generation warriors have? With this they would quite literally be permanently immune to conditions as long as they are either hitting or being hit if they took cleansing ire and signet of rage, and possibly one other generation trait. I don’t think this would really make them weak to conditions…

You’ve never actually played a Warrior I take it?

1 to 3 conditions removed every 8 seconds somehow makes Warriors immune :/

Berserker’s stance and 98% movement condition reduction would be the ~immunity.

But on a side note, what other class do you know of that can remove 3 conditions every 8 seconds with a single skill and trait?

Ranger gets 3 every 10.
Guard gets 2 every 10.

My suggestion removed berserker stance and moved that mechanic to healing sig and also removed the immunity.

Why would we balance Warriors around sigils and food? Why not just nerf the sigils and food….

phaeris.7604:

WHy isn’t adrenal healing in the healing line?? it should be master/gm trait at least.

Umm, it is in the Healing line. Defense is Toughness and Healing Power. Adrenal Health is the Master Minor trait in that line.

I think a spirit ranger and some engi beat me on a 1v1 on my warrior but yeah most times I die because I’m getting zerged. So warrior weakness is a zerg.

isolatedchimp.2510:

I think a spirit ranger and some engi beat me on a 1v1 on my warrior but yeah most times I die because I’m getting zerged. So warrior weakness is a zerg.

Pretty sure that’s an everyone weakness :p

Harper.4173:

And while they do a lot of things well they don’t do anything better than one class or another that is specifically built do do it better. That’s why as a warrior you will never solo roam as well as a mesmer , bunker as well as a guardian or dps as well as an ele.
You are at best going to do ok, but never as good as these other classes.

The trivial part here is that while in optimal conditions you are right. Optimal conditions are rarely present in the game though, which makes the Warrior excel at certain roles.

I will try to give some examples:
Solo roaming can be done fairly well with the Warrior while not giving up group utilities in the process. If the Warrior finds himself in a pinch, the greatsword offers enough movement speed to escape. (Which is arguably the only utility you would need to “give up”, but the only situations for solo roaming are in WvW where you can change weapon sets while you have already loaded the map.)

As for playing a bunker: with a hammer the Warrior is able to dish out enough crowd control to keep the enemy under pressure, while still keeping high sustain (with no activation time, so you can keep pressuring your foes even when you need to heal.) The sheer design of Healing Signet allows for more healing than dedicated bunker builds while requiring absolutely zero healing power. Then there are the utility skills.

Harper.4173:

Except that warriors don’t have above average blocking skills or invulnerabilities. What they don’t have is access to any form of damage mitigation – so yes – they need the passive regen.

Allow me to break in on this painful subject of Endure Pain versus professions’ access to invulnerability through utility skills.

Endure Pain: 4 second duration and a 1 minute recharge.
Mist Form: 3 second of complete invulnerability and 75 recharge. Prevents capture point contribution and you can not do anything other than move during its’ duration.
Elixir S: 3 second duration and a 1 minute recharge. Also prevents capture point contribution and again you lose your active skill set for the full duration.
Signet of Stone: Requires a 30 point trait and has a 80 second recharge. On the upside it lasts for 6 seconds.
“Protect Me!”: 6 second duration and makes the pet passive during that time. Damage is not nullified but instead transferred to the pet and it also prevents capture point contribution.

And yet Endure Pain is not above average?

Concerning damage potential: in order for an Elementalist to surpass the Warrior… Do we really need to discuss sustained DPS under pressure versus optimal conditions here? Requiring boons, staying out of the line of fire and depending on your enemy to not move out of the AoE should be convincing enough.

All of these things can be achieved without changing builds. Which is for many “specialized” professions the main restriction. No profession can change role as easily as a Warrior can by simply changing his active weapon sets.

Then as for the rest of your statements I feel inclined to repeat my previous posts.

I would like to kindly ask you to stop posting such biased (and generally offensive) arguments. I can empathize with you defending the Warrior profession. But the same players acting as “Forum Warriors” while still not contributing to the actual discussions (but rather trying to derail them) gets old very fast.

And yes, I missed the note “Welcome to teh internetz”.

Let’s not talk about the L2P issues with telegraphing a class’ movement because that kind of talk will get us nowhere. Let’s look at their Trait Lines.

10 points Defense Dogged March – 3 sec regen, 33% reduction to soft CCs
15 points Defense Adrenal Health – Level 3 Adrenaline is 360 HP healed
15 points Fast Hands – 5 second weapon swap cool down

To obtain something, something of equal value must be lost. In this case, warriors get more than what they give. These should be at least a Master trait, 2 of them are even Minor traits.

Make Dogged March a Master trait to put it on the same level as elementalist and engineer. Some people might disagree because it’s already stronger than the other class’ skill which gives the same effect MINUS the regen but I think Anet can buff the regen to 4~5 seconds with a 10/15 second ICD.

Adrenal Health – Remove it from Master Minor trait line and put it to Master trait line. Make warriors trait for this strong trait. It should not be a “freebie” because it’s too strong to be a “freebie” Master Minor trait.

Fast Hands – Same idea as adrenal health. This trait is too strong to be a Minor trait.

Atherakhia.4086:

Black Box.9312:

Atherakhia.4086:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Atherakhia.4086:

Conditions.

Remove berserker stance. Make it do 25% more damage and reduce armor by 25%.
Attach condi immunity to healing signet. Slowly drains available adrenaline until out of adrenaline. Immune to condis while it’s up. 3 adrenaline a second drained.

I’ve solved the Warrior class.

0.o
Have you seen how much adrenaline generation warriors have? With this they would quite literally be permanently immune to conditions as long as they are either hitting or being hit if they took cleansing ire and signet of rage, and possibly one other generation trait. I don’t think this would really make them weak to conditions…

You’ve never actually played a Warrior I take it?

1 to 3 conditions removed every 8 seconds somehow makes Warriors immune :/

Berserker’s stance and 98% movement condition reduction would be the ~immunity.

But on a side note, what other class do you know of that can remove 3 conditions every 8 seconds with a single skill and trait?

Ranger gets 3 every 10.
Guard gets 2 every 10.

Since I am not sure about the Guardian due to a sheer lack of experience with the profession, I can not give feedback on that. Though I can tell you as much that the Ranger’s condition “cleanse” is in fact a transfer to the pet, uncontrolled (it is on a timer…) and requires 30 trait points.

Kind of hard to compare that to a 20 point trait that gives you on-demand condition removal.

Back on the subject of the Warrior’s weakness. +1 to who said criticism. I lol’ed

Atherakhia.4086:

Black Box.9312:

Atherakhia.4086:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Atherakhia.4086:

Conditions.

Remove berserker stance. Make it do 25% more damage and reduce armor by 25%.
Attach condi immunity to healing signet. Slowly drains available adrenaline until out of adrenaline. Immune to condis while it’s up. 3 adrenaline a second drained.

I’ve solved the Warrior class.

0.o
Have you seen how much adrenaline generation warriors have? With this they would quite literally be permanently immune to conditions as long as they are either hitting or being hit if they took cleansing ire and signet of rage, and possibly one other generation trait. I don’t think this would really make them weak to conditions…

You’ve never actually played a Warrior I take it?

1 to 3 conditions removed every 8 seconds somehow makes Warriors immune :/

Berserker’s stance and 98% movement condition reduction would be the ~immunity.

But on a side note, what other class do you know of that can remove 3 conditions every 8 seconds with a single skill and trait?

Ranger gets 3 every 10.
Guard gets 2 every 10.

My suggestion removed berserker stance and moved that mechanic to healing sig and also removed the immunity.

Why would we balance Warriors around sigils and food? Why not just nerf the sigils and food….

Ranger’s 3 is a GM trait that doesn’t actually remove the conditions, but instead transfers them to the pet. While this is still powerful, it’s not quite the same because the pet is a good portion of the ranger’s damage and utility.

Guardian’s 2 requires both purity and signet of resolve, and signet of resolve’s passive is lost when the need to heal arises, which removes the passive for a whopping 40 seconds.

Neither of these are really comparable to the warrior’s master trait which is STRONGER than both of these anyway.

And yes, I agree that nerfing the condi reduction food would be a better way to go. But that is irrelevant to the point being made, where warriors can have near immunity to movement conditions, with simply a runeset, food, and an adept trait no less.

JorneMormel.9850:

Atherakhia.4086:

Black Box.9312:

Atherakhia.4086:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Atherakhia.4086:

Conditions.

Remove berserker stance. Make it do 25% more damage and reduce armor by 25%.
Attach condi immunity to healing signet. Slowly drains available adrenaline until out of adrenaline. Immune to condis while it’s up. 3 adrenaline a second drained.

I’ve solved the Warrior class.

0.o
Have you seen how much adrenaline generation warriors have? With this they would quite literally be permanently immune to conditions as long as they are either hitting or being hit if they took cleansing ire and signet of rage, and possibly one other generation trait. I don’t think this would really make them weak to conditions…

You’ve never actually played a Warrior I take it?

1 to 3 conditions removed every 8 seconds somehow makes Warriors immune :/

Berserker’s stance and 98% movement condition reduction would be the ~immunity.

But on a side note, what other class do you know of that can remove 3 conditions every 8 seconds with a single skill and trait?

Ranger gets 3 every 10.
Guard gets 2 every 10.

Since I am not sure about the Guardian due to a sheer lack of experience with the profession, I can not give feedback on that. Though I can tell you as much that the Ranger’s condition “cleanse” is in fact a transfer to the pet, uncontrolled (it is on a timer…) and requires 30 trait points.

Kind of hard to compare that to a 20 point trait that gives you on-demand condition removal.

Back on the subject of the Warrior’s weakness. +1 to who said criticism. I lol’ed

On-demand condition removal?

The warrior has to land his burst skill to get that condition removal – which wouldn’t be to hard against those who come here to whine instead of learn to dodge highly telegraphed skills. Note that it also only removes three conditions if he has full adrenaline, which you falsely assume is always the case.

Berserker Stance only lasts for 8 seconds and goes on recharge for 60 seconds. I would hardly call that immunity. It is also currently more effective than it should be because it is bugged (which Anet should fix). You don’t balance around a bugged skill, you fix the bug.

98% movement condition reduction comes mainly from runes and food that are available to any class. The trait Dogged March only decrease the duration by 33%

You apparently know nothing about Warrior. Your facts are untrue and your arguments invalid because they are based on fantasy. You are really just here to QQ.

Warriors weakness is criticism? What you, and the original poster call criticism is nothing more than a campaign of hate by people who can’t learn to deal with the most simple, straightforward class in the game. Don’t deny it. Here in a thread about warriors weakness, you are raging about the skills and traits, and food and runes that you think are OP. Not at all off topic. Cry more.

Don’t forget to go cry about how that OP warrior is running away from you. OP Professions always run away….

havoc.6814:

The warrior has to land his burst skill to get that condition removal – which wouldn’t be to hard against those who come here to whine instead of learn to dodge highly telegraphed skills.

Since when were Eviscerate, Arcing Slice, and Flurry “highly telegraphed?” Well, Flurry is, but by the time you see it, you’re already immobilized, so dodging is no longer an option.

Then there’s Combustive Shot which doesn’t need to hit anything at all to trigger Cleansing Ire.

That leaves three “highly telegraphed” possibilities to activate Cleansing Ire, and I’ve never seen a build use more than one of those options.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

havoc.6814:

The warrior has to land his burst skill to get that condition removal – which wouldn’t be to hard against those who come here to whine instead of learn to dodge highly telegraphed skills.

Since when were Eviscerate, Arcing Slice, and Flurry “highly telegraphed?” Well, Flurry is, but by the time you see it, you’re already immobilized, so dodging is no longer an option.

Then there’s Combustive Shot which doesn’t need to hit anything at all to trigger Cleansing Ire.

Cleansing Shot is the only real problematic one, and it just had a series of nerfs, one of which was to it’s radius. It also most definately has to hit something, it just usually does so because, yeah, AOE…. Eviscerate is highly telegraphed and easily dodged. Flurry is very easily dodged ( I run a sword/hammer build and Flurry very rarely hits even if not dodged, since it immobs me before it immobs the target.) Arcing Slice just doesn’t count because no warrior would ever use it, it is a dps loss in any situation. Warriors who use Arcing Slice get kicked out of dungeons, parties, guilds, and the whole internet.

So, as far as I am concerned, my point still stands.

havoc.6814:

On-demand condition removal?

The warrior has to land his burst skill to get that condition removal – which wouldn’t be to hard against those who come here to whine instead of learn to dodge highly telegraphed skills. Note that it also only removes three conditions if he has full adrenaline, which you falsely assume is always the case.

You apparently know nothing about Warrior. Your facts are untrue and your arguments invalid because they are based on fantasy. You are really just here to QQ.

Warriors weakness is criticism? What you, and the original poster call criticism is nothing more than a campaign of hate by people who can’t learn to deal with the most simple, straightforward class in the game. Don’t deny it. Here in a thread about warriors weakness, you are raging about the skills and traits, and food and runes that you think are OP. Not at all off topic. Cry more.

Don’t forget to go cry about how that OP warrior is running away from you. OP Professions always run away….

First of all, I think you might have also missed the note “Welcome to teh internetz.”

As for trying to run a campaign against Warriors. Really? Is that really what you think of my previous posts? I only replied to clear up some weird comparisons made with other professions and explained my personal point of view. Up until this point I have yet to have seen anyone claim a serious weakness or a way to counter the 20-points-in-defense Warrior builds.

About the condition removal being “on-demand”, by that I simply mean you are able to actively use it instead of being reliant on a timer like Emphatic Bond. Cleansing Ire triggers when you hit a foe with a burst skill, fair enough. But this is something you would be trying to do anyway and Berserker’s Stance is actually quite powerful for a 60 second cool down skill, as you do not get condition removal much more active than that. Also do not underestimate the -33% from Dogged March as all these pieces really do add up, although the last one less “on-demand” as I would personally put it.

Mind you, English is not my native language (I am self-taught, actually…) so I might have made my points across a bit more offensive than I would like. Having said that, discussing these traits and whether or not they are overpowered makes me grow weary. I will leave it with saying “deal with it.” And I look forward to getting this topic back on track. (Hoping that I may have cleared some of the air with this post.)

Have a very nice day!

OP needs to L2P. Try dodging their obvious attacks.

hellsmachine.4085:

OP needs to L2P. Try dodging their obvious attacks.

Yeah, you just have to dodge all of the Eviscerates, Kill Shots, Volleys, Staggering Blows, Backbreakers, Earthshakers, Pin Downs, Combustive Shot pulses, Skull Cracks, Pommel Bashes, Tremors, Shield Bashes, Whirling Axes, Impales, Arcing Slices, and Final Thrusts. Of course, it’s not like every warrior build has all of these, but many of them (particularly the adrenaline skills) have a very short CD, which, combined with the shortened weapon swap CD, makes them extremely difficult to evade. With all of the vigor nerfs, and the fact that you can potentially remain perm-stunned (or the equivalent thereof, anyways), it’s impossible to just evade everything.

Black Box.9312:

He’s saying that a warrior can have good enough of everything without having to specialize at all, which is completely true. Elementalist used to be really good at this role – but then they promptly received hard nerfs with little compensation. Now, warrior has filled that niche pretty well, except by contrast, they have the HIGHEST base HP and the HIGHEST base armor values.

The reason why people protest the current state of warrior as a class isn’t because it’s better at any particular spec than another class. It’s because it’s better at having EVERYTHING than any other class by far, and while other classes have to make sacrifices in some specs to excel in others warrior can effectively fill any role without having to make any sort of sacrifices, which is highly unbalanced.

This was a long time ago in terms of the speed at which this thread is progressing, but I want to quote it because I think it is very well said. I completely agree with this and I think this perfectly says why the Warrior needs to be toned down.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I am saying that only warriors and Devs are the ones that think Warrior is balanced, but what would expect from Devs that play this class. Not exactly possible to have a balanced game if ALL the devs play the same class now is it?

Ha, you really think this is how it works?
Did you follow Ghostcrawler’s departure from WoW? And how people always blames imbalances on him playing a specific class/spec?

Well as he departed, he finally revealed his main. Holy Priest. The one spec to never be overpowered except for a very tiny slice of time right as WotLK’s Chakra system hit.

And there’s a good reason for that. If you’re in a position of power, you need to make absolutely sure that people (doesn’t matter whether it’s players or co-workers) don’t think of you as abusing your power.
Translated to balance devs, this means that you cannot allow your own character to be at the top of the food chain. Ever. You’d just get accused of being biased – exactly what you are doing now.

In other words, if 1 class out of 8 is really overpowered, the viable explanation would be that there are 7+ devs doing class-balance, which play all classes except warrior.
Hence they can buff the Warriors, no suspicion of abuse there.

The only “real” weakness i could think about would be the player behind the warrior. You just have to hope that said player uses some totally subpar build (which is hard to do as a Warrior, unless you are a beginner), constantly messes up or just grows overconfident (well, the latter one doesn’t apply to tanky Warrs, since they can be pretty much as careless as they want).

One could of course also see “Warriors” as Warriors weakness :p

Warriors don’t have a weakness.

A high armour, high health, high damage, cc immune, condition immune with aoe damage and stuns and ranged aoe or highest ranged single target damage in the game and highest mobility in the game.

Which is why its the commonest class next to guardian in wvw.

hellsmachine.4085:

OP needs to L2P. Try dodging their obvious attacks.

favorite answer to every thing. So as a necro with my 2 dodges do I dodge the stin, knockback, knockdown or weakness? That’s just from hammer attacks, no utilities or second weapon set added but you get the idea.

truely the only counter to warriors is a PU mesmer with on death condition application from clones, between stealth, vigor (getting nerfed) and constant application of conditions from clones being replaced they cam whittle warriors down. Yet this build is considered “cheesy” and they are looking at nerfing it. Also PU has no way to keep you from leaving so you don’t actually need to die to it.

Well necro’s are fairly screwed, because they have poor defense.
“Try dodging their obvious attacks” is very doable on e.g. a mesmer, i.e. dodge, staff #2, sword #2, dodge, blink, even-though-vigor-nerf-still-pleenty-of-vigor-ergo-dodge, and back to staff #2, sword #2, and then you can take a hit.

High Access to poison and soft CC.
But is not enough, you need some defense to get by their initial immunity.

Thus classes I feel do well against warriors are ranger and engi.

A warrior’s main weakness is having two players fight the warrior over a capture point. The warrior will then have to use more than a minute of their time to kill both players.

rpfohr.7048:

High Access to poison and soft CC.
But is not enough, you need some defense to get by their initial immunity.

Thus classes I feel do well against warriors are ranger and engi.

Guess what, they’re just nerfing poison grenade and net turret in the balance patch…

Manuhell.2759:

rpfohr.7048:

High Access to poison and soft CC.
But is not enough, you need some defense to get by their initial immunity.

Thus classes I feel do well against warriors are ranger and engi.

Guess what, they’re just nerfing poison grenade and net turret in the balance patch…

I think you found it. Everything is balanced around warriors. If its strong against them it needs to be nerfed, vigor uptime, posion uptime, condition application (see dhuumfire).

Manuhell.2759:

rpfohr.7048:

High Access to poison and soft CC.
But is not enough, you need some defense to get by their initial immunity.

Thus classes I feel do well against warriors are ranger and engi.

Guess what, they’re just nerfing poison grenade and net turret in the balance patch…

Then I guess you should start playing a ranger……

Seriously though poison / CC wear down builds work against warriors

Engi will still be a viable option even though its getting hit as warriors are getting a SLIGHT nerf too.

Maybe check into a thief, they have decent poison as well.

I will tell you that when I play a warrior, the toughest fights are the ones where it is difficult to catch and burst because of CC you and use poison to negate Heal Sig.

So start leveling your thief / ranger if your so concerned about your engi nerf.

rpfohr.7048:

Manuhell.2759:

rpfohr.7048:

High Access to poison and soft CC.
But is not enough, you need some defense to get by their initial immunity.

Thus classes I feel do well against warriors are ranger and engi.

Guess what, they’re just nerfing poison grenade and net turret in the balance patch…

Then I guess you should start playing a ranger……

Seriously though poison / CC wear down builds work against warriors

Engi will still be a viable option even though its getting hit as warriors are getting a SLIGHT nerf too.

Maybe check into a thief, they have decent poison as well.

I will tell you that when I play a warrior, the toughest fights are the ones where it is difficult to catch and burst because of CC you and use poison to negate Heal Sig.

So start leveling your thief / ranger if your so concerned about your engi nerf.

Necromancers have access to three fears, plenty of chill and cripple, and poison on our auto, yet Warriors are supposedly our counter-profession, so this isn’t entirely accurate.

Atherakhia.4086:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Atherakhia.4086:

Conditions.

Remove berserker stance. Make it do 25% more damage and reduce armor by 25%.
Attach condi immunity to healing signet. Slowly drains available adrenaline until out of adrenaline. Immune to condis while it’s up. 3 adrenaline a second drained.

I’ve solved the Warrior class.

0.o
Have you seen how much adrenaline generation warriors have? With this they would quite literally be permanently immune to conditions as long as they are either hitting or being hit if they took cleansing ire and signet of rage, and possibly one other generation trait. I don’t think this would really make them weak to conditions…

You’ve never actually played a Warrior I take it?

1 to 3 conditions removed every 8 seconds somehow makes Warriors immune :/

I was talking about: “Attach condi immunity to healing signet. Slowly drains available adrenaline until out of adrenaline. Immune to condis while it’s up. 3 adrenaline a second drained.” With almost any investment in adrenaline generation this would make warriors permanently immune to conditions.

rpfohr.7048:

…Seriously though poison / CC wear down builds work against warriors…

It’s a good thing warriors don’t have CC immunity and easy condi clears.

OH WAIT LOL JK!

Balefire.7592:

Necromancers have access to three fears, plenty of chill and cripple, and poison on our auto, yet Warriors are supposedly our counter-profession, so this isn’t entirely accurate.

That is because Necro’s dont have the same defensive capabilities rangers / engi has, they are light armor and have little mobility. Yes they have great condi burst but they dont have enough to survive their immunities as I said in my first post.

WhiteRose.6934:

rpfohr.7048:

…Seriously though poison / CC wear down builds work against warriors…

It’s a good thing warriors don’t have CC immunity and easy condi clears.

OH WAIT LOL JK!

LOL I GUESS CAPS AND ATTACHMENTS HELPS GET POINTS ACROSS. READING IS FOR CHUMPS.

I said good counter classes also include those that have defenses and can just wait out the CC immunity.

1) So you mean I have to learn how to evade while berserk stance is active?

Ya…. It’s easy, different for every class but easy. I use hornet sting on my ranger…. and just create distance. On thief I use stealth. Some classes as I said like Necro, sorry Warrior is your counter, your just going to eat damage cause you dont have a lot of mobility or evade. But if you have access to these things, it helps cause Warrior stuff is telegraphed.

And about those condi clears, I’d say pick the right class and they probably have more access to poison and soft CC than he can clear. Besides, I know going into a fight most people have condi clears, warrior is no different. Just need to have more kitten than they can clear and keep them away from you.

2) Not every warrior takes everything!!
For some reason you all think warriors have access to everything in 1 build.
Warriors have to spec for kitten just like everybody else, I should know, I have a bunch of 80’s. look at what weapons he is using and you will improve your play greatly.

rpfohr.7048:

2) Not every warrior takes everything!!
For some reason you all think warriors have access to everything in 1 build.
Warriors have to spec for kitten just like everybody else, I should know, I have a bunch of 80’s. look at what weapons he is using and you will improve your play greatly.

Yes, they do have access to everything, and no, they don’t have to spec beyond 20 points in a single traitline. That is the current problem we are facing, and that is why warrior as a profession needs to be looked at. I don’t care if a warrior has high regen, or if they have lots of mobility, or if they have strong damage, or if they have excellent condition removal, or if they have good damage and CC mitigation. I DO care if they have all of that simultaneously, because no other class can do that to nearly the extent that warrior can.

Black Box.9312:

rpfohr.7048:

2) Not every warrior takes everything!!
For some reason you all think warriors have access to everything in 1 build.
Warriors have to spec for kitten just like everybody else, I should know, I have a bunch of 80’s. look at what weapons he is using and you will improve your play greatly.

Yes, they do have access to everything, and no, they don’t have to spec beyond 20 points in a single traitline. That is the current problem we are facing, and that is why warrior as a profession needs to be looked at. I don’t care if a warrior has high regen, or if they have lots of mobility, or if they have strong damage, or if they have excellent condition removal, or if they have good damage and CC mitigation. I DO care if they have all of that simultaneously, because no other class can do that to nearly the extent that warrior can.

Here is what I’ll tell you.
Post the build that you THINK has everything,
And I’ll take it as a challenge to show you what it DOESN’T have.
Because I’ll tell you what. Nobody can spec 30/30/30/30/30 and take all 10 of his weapons in one build to cover his bases.

I mean come on guys – you stupid? I gave my opinion on what I think works against most Warriors I encounter but…..

You think S/S Condi. Hambow. and Skull Crack all have the exact same weakness?
It depends on build.
Each situation is different!!

I already posted this.

To obtain something, something of equal value must be lost. It’s clear that Warriors are getting more than what they give. Let’s not talk about how “easy” it is to dodge “easily telegraphed moves” and put in L2P issues as an excuse.

10 points Defense Dogged March – 3 sec regen, 33% reduction to soft CCs
15 points Defense Adrenal Health – Level 3 Adrenaline is 360 HP healed
15 points Fast Hands – 5 second weapon swap cool down

So the basic needs of a warrior is X/X/15/X/15 which leaves them 40 points to play with.

These traits don’t deserve to be in Adept traits nor to be Minor traits because they’re too strong. Make warriors actually trait for these. They have to choose what they get, not get all these strong traits as “freebies” because they’re Minor traits.

Kyon.9735:

I already posted this.

To obtain something, something of equal value must be lost. It’s clear that Warriors are getting more than what they give. Let’s not talk about how “easy” it is to dodge “easily telegraphed moves” and put in L2P issues as an excuse.

10 points Defense Dogged March – 3 sec regen, 33% reduction to soft CCs
15 points Defense Adrenal Health – Level 3 Adrenaline is 360 HP healed
15 points Fast Hands – 5 second weapon swap cool down

So the basic needs of a warrior is X/X/15/X/15 which leaves them 40 points to play with.

These traits don’t deserve to be in Adept traits nor to be Minor traits because they’re too strong. Make warriors actually trait for these. They have to choose what they get, not get all these strong traits as “freebies” because they’re Minor traits.

Your 3 points:
Dogged march: warrior is a melee, means he needs the added movement impairment resistance so he isn’t kited continuously. The real offender is lemongrass + melandru that all other classes can use anyway, dont blame the warrior for that.

Adrenal health. The healing is per 3 seconds and assuming you have full adrenaline to get the effect. Current Meta is spending your adrenaline as soon as you have it so you trigger cleansing ire and set up a burst, not to sit on it. This trait is mostly useless in battle.

fast hands. not only this ability shouldnt even require 15 points, general consensus is it should have been integrated in the warrior class from the beginning, as a class feature.
At the very least it should only require 5 points and not 15.

DuranArgith.1354:

Kyon.9735:

I already posted this.

To obtain something, something of equal value must be lost. It’s clear that Warriors are getting more than what they give. Let’s not talk about how “easy” it is to dodge “easily telegraphed moves” and put in L2P issues as an excuse.

10 points Defense Dogged March – 3 sec regen, 33% reduction to soft CCs
15 points Defense Adrenal Health – Level 3 Adrenaline is 360 HP healed
15 points Fast Hands – 5 second weapon swap cool down

So the basic needs of a warrior is X/X/15/X/15 which leaves them 40 points to play with.

These traits don’t deserve to be in Adept traits nor to be Minor traits because they’re too strong. Make warriors actually trait for these. They have to choose what they get, not get all these strong traits as “freebies” because they’re Minor traits.

Your 3 points:
Dogged march: warrior is a melee, means he needs the added movement impairment resistance so he isn’t kited continuously. The real offender is lemongrass + melandru that all other classes can use anyway, dont blame the warrior for that.

Adrenal health. The healing is per 3 seconds and assuming you have full adrenaline to get the effect. Current Meta is spending your adrenaline as soon as you have it so you trigger cleansing ire and set up a burst, not to sit on it. This trait is mostly useless in battle.

fast hands. not only this ability shouldnt even require 15 points, general consensus is it should have been integrated in the warrior class from the beginning, as a class feature.
At the very least it should only require 5 points and not 15.

So… we’re ignoring longbow/rifle and trying to trivialize more hps Ok…

People who still think that warrior is “fine” should go play some other professions and fight warriors with those. Healing signet on its own is not really the problem – its the combination with adrenal health and boon regen. When do people get that having a heal that you dont even need to pay attention to is bullkitten? Sure you might be able to counter it a little with poison but every other heal is countered by the exact same condition plus interrupts which in most cases is a worse counter.

Warriors here, warriors there, warriors all over the kittening place!
If warriors are not nerfed in the upcoming patch I believe that we will see a severe drop in the spvp/tpvp population.

I joined the hambow warrior bandwagon with a spec I found on the net, it’s hilarious. My health only starts going down when 3 people target me, I don’t pay attention to conditions applied to me, I just make wide moves with my hammer when icons light up. I can both bunker and DPS, and if I go afk only glass canons will take me down. Other bunkers can’t go past my passive regen

This said, I think the 8% nerf to Healing Signet is underestimated. Let’s say I regenerate 1000 when my opponent deals 1100, I get 100 damage. If I only regenerate 920, then I get 180 damage. That’s 80% damage increase. I think in 1v1 it will restore some much needed balance.

And next on ‘Spot The Warrior’ >.<

I’m getting tired of this pointless circle-jerk.

Some counters, going with Hambow as it’s the most common, some of these examples can be beaten by other Warrior builds but those would in term lose to builds Hambow may not etc.:

1. PU Mesmer. Having all your AIs scattered about makes them not be taken out by Combustive Shot. With all of the stun breaks, teleports, and blurred frenzy you should never be hit by a full Hammer combo.

2. Melee Ranger. The build I’ve found that works best was Axe/Dagger+Sword/Torch with 0/0/30/30/10. I lost to this a few times and tried it out for myself and even with my terrible mastery of the playstyle (I find it odd to let my skills do most of the moving for me and end up canceling skills by accident) I could beat most meta Warrior builds. It has insane regen, but also tons of protection. In fact the person I got this build off of beat pretty much every 1v1 I saw them get into. Undead runes with Rabid gear makes them capable of large condi spikes and most importantly they almost always have poison applied. Add it Rampage as One and for 20 seconds the Warrior can do very little damage to you and you can force them to use most of their long CD condition skills while it’s up.

3. Standard Condi Necro with Golem. The one big mistake I always see Necros make is that they use all their best skills at the start and while Berseker Stance is up. You have to putt on just enough condis to force the stance, kite while it’s active, then wait until they use their burst and pile everything on. If you see them go for another burst to cleanse use the Goelm’s charge to either force them to use their Stability (Hambow only brings generally, contrary to popular belief) and if you can corrupt it while laying down the Fear you’re a shoe-in. Now, if they have say Signet of Stamina they may win,but that means they went full on into countering you and it makes them weaker to the other 2 builds mentioned.

4. Damage Guardian. I don’t know a ton about this build but I do know that with all of their blind, high damage, and access to invulnerability that they have a strong chance of beating the Warrior, especially if you get the upper hand early. Same thing as Necro, don’t waste your blinds when Zerker Stance is up and use your blocks that will last you for most of the duration and then blind the big telegraphed Hammer attacks and it’s cash money.

5. Blind Thieves. Similar to Guardian, it’s all about saving your blinds for the big telegraphed attacks and suddenly their DPS is kitten poor. Especially potent is using the steal skill in a blind field, it’s probably the most annoying thing ever to a Warrior.

I’m sure there’s a few more I’ve forgotten but I feel that 5 makes my point, play defensive when Zerker Stance is up, then negate all of the Hammer’s big attacks. Also of note, Pin Down actually does have a different animation, there’s circles around the arrow as it flies. Now this is harder to see coming in CQC but don’t you worry because that’s getting nearly a second charge time soon so at that point Warrior will be the undisputed king of obvious and highly telegraphed attacks.

My biggest gripe with this forum is that I hardly ever hear anyone seriously trying to counter the current meta. Most just instantly throw their hands up in the air when something beats their current build and demand it gets nerfed without even attempting to find a solution. It’s getting really annoying because even in real life everyone wants the solution handed to them on a silver platter rather than trying to fix things yourself.

DuranArgith.1354:

Kyon.9735:

I already posted this.

To obtain something, something of equal value must be lost. It’s clear that Warriors are getting more than what they give. Let’s not talk about how “easy” it is to dodge “easily telegraphed moves” and put in L2P issues as an excuse.

10 points Defense Dogged March – 3 sec regen, 33% reduction to soft CCs
15 points Defense Adrenal Health – Level 3 Adrenaline is 360 HP healed
15 points Fast Hands – 5 second weapon swap cool down

So the basic needs of a warrior is X/X/15/X/15 which leaves them 40 points to play with.

These traits don’t deserve to be in Adept traits nor to be Minor traits because they’re too strong. Make warriors actually trait for these. They have to choose what they get, not get all these strong traits as “freebies” because they’re Minor traits.

Your 3 points:
Dogged march: warrior is a melee, means he needs the added movement impairment resistance so he isn’t kited continuously. The real offender is lemongrass + melandru that all other classes can use anyway, dont blame the warrior for that.

Adrenal health. The healing is per 3 seconds and assuming you have full adrenaline to get the effect. Current Meta is spending your adrenaline as soon as you have it so you trigger cleansing ire and set up a burst, not to sit on it. This trait is mostly useless in battle.

fast hands. not only this ability shouldnt even require 15 points, general consensus is it should have been integrated in the warrior class from the beginning, as a class feature.
At the very least it should only require 5 points and not 15.

What I am suggesting is to make the Minor traits into Major traits as they are too good just to be “freebies” when you go for higher traits. Warriors basically get a really good package by spending small trait points.

With 20 points into discipline, you can get a 33% reduction to soft CCs, more HP sustain (which by the way synergizes very well with Healing signet), and condition removal. The fact is regardless if you use your adrenaline or not, it’s still a win-win situation. If you don’t use it you regenerate HP, if you use it you cleanse conditions.

As for Fast Hands, what I am saying is that it’s too good to be a freebie. I don’t mind if they make it an adept trait as long as it is a Major trait. Warriors usually pair it with Warrior’s Sprint.

TL;DR – Warriors need to choose their traits. Make Adrenal Health either an Adept or Master Major trait so Warriors can’t have all 3 (Dogged March, Cleansing Ire, Adrenal Health). Make Fast Hands a Major Adept trait. Make them choose, Fast Hands or another trait (which is usually warrior’s sprint).

Warrior is a melee?

So a d/d ele isn’t a melee? A gs/axe ranger isn’t a melee? A d/d necro isn’t a melee?

You’re only a melee if you choose to be. You have access to rifle and longbow. If those weapons weren’t that effective why do I see so many of them in pvp/wvw. If I said to you ’Would you rather have a longbow ranger on your team or a longbow warrior..which would you have? ’ Every class can be kited.

Don’t even begin to suggest that adrenaline gain is somehow a problem. Adrenaline is back to full a few seconds after using an F1 ability in fights. Also how is a constant health regen useless in battle?

Fast hands being a class feature? Eles have to spec 30 pnts into arcane just to get their swaps down to 10 seconds from 13 seconds.

It’s always the same when you argue with warrior players, you somehow believe that warriors are the only ones to take damage in this game or are subject to cc or conditions which justifies all your abilities and hitpoints/toughness.

Aberrant.6749:

longbow

Good for sPvP, meh in WvW, meh for non-condition or non-zerker builds. Only really useful things are skill 5 and skill F1 (only with 20 pts in def line).

rifle

Lol.

Rednik.3809:

Aberrant.6749:

longbow

Good for sPvP, meh in WvW, meh for non-condition or non-zerker builds. Only really useful things are skill 5 and skill F1 (only with 20 pts in def line).

rifle

Lol.

I wouldn’t call longbow meh in WvW. Pin down alone…

Rifle isn’t bad in ZvZ, 1 shotting players while being hidden in a group works. It’s rubbish in PvE and sPvP though…

Aberrant.6749:

Rednik.3809:

Aberrant.6749:

longbow

Good for sPvP, meh in WvW, meh for non-condition or non-zerker builds. Only really useful things are skill 5 and skill F1 (only with 20 pts in def line).

rifle

Lol.

I wouldn’t call longbow meh in WvW. Pin down alone…

Rifle isn’t bad in ZvZ, 1 shotting players while being hidden in a group works. It’s rubbish in PvE and sPvP though…

I would say Longbow is good in WvW but if you were to run Hammer with it your movement would suck and retreating would be basically impossible. I run it with either GS or Sword/Warhorn because that gives you great team support while maintaining a good offense. That being said you’ll find yourself really weak to certain builds but with the Sword+bow in particular it’s great for locking down people trying to flee with all that immobilize.

The fact that you called Longbow ‘meh’ in WvW pretty much sums up what sort of player you are.

Aberrant.6749:

I wouldn’t call longbow meh in WvW. Pin down alone…

Main longbow strength is ticking firefield on point. In wvw you can just run out from it, because there is no circle for cap/decap.

Rifle isn’t bad in ZvZ, 1 shotting players while being hidden in a group works. It’s rubbish in PvE and sPvP though…

Only for one-trick pony glass build, sniping careless pugs. You cannot kill frontline with it, and you are pretty useless for anything outside of occasional shots from max distance. Simple respec to frontline hammer will give you much more kills and synergy with your team.

Just going to say it’s annoying that I posted the answer to the OP’s question and it got ignored in favor of LB’s use in WvW.

phaeris.7604:

The fact that you called Longbow ‘meh’ in WvW pretty much sums up what sort of player you are.

Yes, I’m pretty clueless and unexperienced player, I know.

So you’re equating hours played to being good?

All it shows is you have alot of time on your hands and favour playing the easiest class out of your sig.