Guild Wars 2

phaeris.7604:

So you’re equating hours played to being good?

All it shows is you have alot of time on your hands and favour playing the easiest class out of your sig.

It’s called “experience”. Btw, wouldn’t you mind to show us your screenshot?

Rednik.3809:

phaeris.7604:

The fact that you called Longbow ‘meh’ in WvW pretty much sums up what sort of player you are.

Yes, I’m pretty clueless and unexperienced player, I know.

That ranks is easy to get by running with the zerg and PVE-ing doors with karma-trains. Not saying that’s how you got it, but that’s how most people got 500+ ranks.

Therefore, rank does not equate to skill. In most instances, it’s the opposite. There’s a reason why most WvW-ers are horrible at 1v1, whilst sPvP or tPvP players are a lot better at it.

Marsares.2053:

Therefore, rank does not equate to skill. In most instances, it’s the opposite. There’s a reason why most WvW-ers are horrible at 1v1, whilst sPvP or tPvP players are a lot better at it.

Pretty much this.

…and now we’re measuring kittens. Can we please get back to the topic at had. Anyone wanting an answer to the OP’s question look on page 2.

BurrTheKing.8571:

2. Melee Ranger. The build I’ve found that works best was Axe/Dagger+Sword/Torch with 0/0/30/30/10. I lost to this a few times and tried it out for myself and even with my terrible mastery of the playstyle (I find it odd to let my skills do most of the moving for me and end up canceling skills by accident) I could beat most meta Warrior builds. It has insane regen, but also tons of protection. In fact the person I got this build off of beat pretty much every 1v1 I saw them get into. Undead runes with Rabid gear makes them capable of large condi spikes and most importantly they almost always have poison applied. Add it Rampage as One and for 20 seconds the Warrior can do very little damage to you and you can force them to use most of their long CD condition skills while it’s up.

Sorry but what about Team Que, problem which almost all Warriors seem to forget. I’ve got a build that’s also great at DUELING in a DUELING SERVER, I take it to Team Que and takes so long to kill the Warrior he has time to call for backup and you end up losing anyways. So there for build isn’t viable if you just end up dead. Next time I’m in a Team Que match I’ll ask the Warrior to wait for my CD’s and bow before he attacks.

Sol.4310:

BurrTheKing.8571:

2. Melee Ranger. The build I’ve found that works best was Axe/Dagger+Sword/Torch with 0/0/30/30/10. I lost to this a few times and tried it out for myself and even with my terrible mastery of the playstyle (I find it odd to let my skills do most of the moving for me and end up canceling skills by accident) I could beat most meta Warrior builds. It has insane regen, but also tons of protection. In fact the person I got this build off of beat pretty much every 1v1 I saw them get into. Undead runes with Rabid gear makes them capable of large condi spikes and most importantly they almost always have poison applied. Add it Rampage as One and for 20 seconds the Warrior can do very little damage to you and you can force them to use most of their long CD condition skills while it’s up.

Sorry but what about Team Que, problem which almost all Warriors seem to forget. I’ve got a build that’s also great at DUELING in a DUELING SERVER, I take it to Team Que and takes so long to kill the Warrior he has time to call for backup and you end up losing anyways. So there for build isn’t viable if you just end up dead. Next time I’m in a Team Que match I’ll ask the Warrior to wait for my CD’s and bow before he attacks.

I’d say that build would make for a good home bunker, as neither can kill each other quickly. The builds are fairly similar in approach they just do things in a different way and while one focuses on conditions the other uses CC.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Sol.4310:

BurrTheKing.8571:

2. Melee Ranger. The build I’ve found that works best was Axe/Dagger+Sword/Torch with 0/0/30/30/10. I lost to this a few times and tried it out for myself and even with my terrible mastery of the playstyle (I find it odd to let my skills do most of the moving for me and end up canceling skills by accident) I could beat most meta Warrior builds. It has insane regen, but also tons of protection. In fact the person I got this build off of beat pretty much every 1v1 I saw them get into. Undead runes with Rabid gear makes them capable of large condi spikes and most importantly they almost always have poison applied. Add it Rampage as One and for 20 seconds the Warrior can do very little damage to you and you can force them to use most of their long CD condition skills while it’s up.

Sorry but what about Team Que, problem which almost all Warriors seem to forget. I’ve got a build that’s also great at DUELING in a DUELING SERVER, I take it to Team Que and takes so long to kill the Warrior he has time to call for backup and you end up losing anyways. So there for build isn’t viable if you just end up dead. Next time I’m in a Team Que match I’ll ask the Warrior to wait for my CD’s and bow before he attacks.

I’d say that build would make for a good home bunker, as neither can kill each other quickly. The builds are fairly similar in approach they just do things in a different way and while one focuses on conditions the other uses CC.

Once again there many builds flying around that can beat Warriors 1v1, but that’s only in Duel Servers, problem is you don’t always have the CD’s you won’t always fight the Warrior 1v1, there so many factor’s you don’t think about.

phaeris.7604:

Warrior is a melee?

So a d/d ele isn’t a melee? A gs/axe ranger isn’t a melee? A d/d necro isn’t a melee?

You’re only a melee if you choose to be. You have access to rifle and longbow. If those weapons weren’t that effective why do I see so many of them in pvp/wvw. If I said to you ’Would you rather have a longbow ranger on your team or a longbow warrior..which would you have? ’ Every class can be kited.

Don’t even begin to suggest that adrenaline gain is somehow a problem. Adrenaline is back to full a few seconds after using an F1 ability in fights. Also how is a constant health regen useless in battle?

Fast hands being a class feature? Eles have to spec 30 pnts into arcane just to get their swaps down to 10 seconds from 13 seconds.

It’s always the same when you argue with warrior players, you somehow believe that warriors are the only ones to take damage in this game or are subject to cc or conditions which justifies all your abilities and hitpoints/toughness.

Preach the truth!

WhiteRose.6934:

phaeris.7604:

Warrior is a melee?

So a d/d ele isn’t a melee? A gs/axe ranger isn’t a melee? A d/d necro isn’t a melee?

You’re only a melee if you choose to be. You have access to rifle and longbow. If those weapons weren’t that effective why do I see so many of them in pvp/wvw. If I said to you ’Would you rather have a longbow ranger on your team or a longbow warrior..which would you have? ’ Every class can be kited.

Don’t even begin to suggest that adrenaline gain is somehow a problem. Adrenaline is back to full a few seconds after using an F1 ability in fights. Also how is a constant health regen useless in battle?

Fast hands being a class feature? Eles have to spec 30 pnts into arcane just to get their swaps down to 10 seconds from 13 seconds.

It’s always the same when you argue with warrior players, you somehow believe that warriors are the only ones to take damage in this game or are subject to cc or conditions which justifies all your abilities and hitpoints/toughness.

Preach the truth!

F1 skills do not generate adrenaline unless you have the furious trait and you crit.
Anet also believed this was the case and nerfed the longbow without any reason.

Also, no D/D eles are not melee. D/D ele is range 300, melee weapons are range 130.

Warriors only have 1 semi viable ranged weapon, the longbow. Rifle is…unfortunate:(

And yes, while other classes can go melee as well, its the warrior that defines the melee playstyle.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’m getting tired of this pointless circle-jerk.

…

1. PU Mesmer.

…

I’m sure there’s a few more I’ve forgotten but I feel that 5 makes my point, play defensive when Zerker Stance is up, then negate all of the Hammer’s big attacks. Also of note, Pin Down actually does have a different animation, there’s circles around the arrow as it flies. Now this is harder to see coming in CQC but don’t you worry because that’s getting nearly a second charge time soon so at that point Warrior will be the undisputed king of obvious and highly telegraphed attacks.

That circling around is indeed a bit unproductive.

As it is now, I see Warriors having the following general weaknesses

• Rather low ranged damage (Don’t “Killshot” me… that is one skill)
• Weak ranged CC
• Lack of combo fields
• Few defensive boons

The first two might indeed be an issue in WvW. In PvP not so much. It also is easily overcome when bringing an appropriate secondary weapon for gap closers. So it arguably is a big but certainly an existing weakness. The third makes solo play rather boring when it comes to combos. In group play however, Warriors shine with finishers. So probably not a real weakness. The fourth is quite obviously due to class design. I also doubt it is a relevant weakness because Warriors compensate for them – namely Protection and Aegis – a different way. So while I do see weaknesses I feel that they aren’t severe.

A weakness Warriors should have is being susceptible to conditions. But they are not because they have a way too easy access to a high amount of regeneration and condition cleanses (e.g. the infamous 20 Defense coupled with HS) which gets even worse when combined with immunities (Stances) or heals (Shouts) and a lot of CC (Hammer). Which probably is the reason why Hambows are so popular in PvP. This also is the reason why people get so annoyed. It is not the mentality of expecting a counter served on a silver plate. It is not people being unwilling to try. I personally just feel that there are any severe enough weaknesses which could be exploited.

Some people might think that poison is a weakness especially against HS. But no, it is not. Everyone is affected by poison the same way. Actually, active heals are more affected by poison because you don’t have to keep it up the whole time. Burst is no weakness either. Everyone dies when bursted at the proper time.

Since Mesmers have been brought up several times now I’d like to comment on Mesmer vs. (Hammer) Warrior specifically. On the one hand, people need to stop talking about “PU builds”. PU builds are very different. The one which is dominating WvW roaming is the Blackwater Build which by the way does not bring Blurred Frenzy. It indeed is a strong build but it certainly is counterable because it is very reactive. Just pay attention to Sc#2, dodge Sc#3 every 12s and kill the Phantasms. Not the clones. This should hardly be a big deal and I’m having a hard time seeing it as a weakness to Warriors.

On the other hand, Mesmers indeed have a slight advantage against Hammer Warriors when compared to some other classes. This is because of skills like Blurred Frenzy, Phase Retreat and Blink which offer additional defense ontop of dodging. However, it still requires a sufficient amount of skill and attention to win. The biggest issue with Hammer Warriors – at least for me personally – is the high amount of CC on short cooldowns. In a theoretical setting with full endurance and – in practice not existing – perma-Vigor a Mesmer will have 14 dodges the first minute of a fight while the Warrior has 13 CCs just from the Hammer alone. After the patch it will be 11 dodges vs. 13 CCs. This means missing a dodge is very unforgiving against a Hammer Warrior. It doesn’t matter that skills are telegraphed when I can’t avoid them (no endurance, too long cast time on possible counter skills). In this case telegraphed just means that I’ll know in advance that I’ll be hit. As mentioned before, Mesmers still got skills to compensate. But they require specific weapon sets (Sword, Staff) or specific utilities (Blink) which btw. also are our Stunbreak. It also should be mentioned that Hammer#2 can cause Weakness which reduces dodging. And, of course, Warriors still got a secondary weapon and utilities as well.

While beating Hammer Warriors is not impossible, I wouldn’t call Mesmers a weakness to Warriors. They are just lucky enough to make up for misses when carrying specific weapons so they are no free kill for CC spammers. Stealth on the other hand just prolongs a fight. It doesn’t counter CC. This, of course, only refers to Hammer Warriors. I have an easier time when fighting Warriors with other weapon sets although many of them still are pretty tough.

DuranArgith.1354:

F1 skills do not generate adrenaline unless you have the furious trait and you crit.
Anet also believed this was the case and nerfed the longbow without any reason.

Also, no D/D eles are not melee. D/D ele is range 300, melee weapons are range 130.

Warriors only have 1 semi viable ranged weapon, the longbow. Rifle is…unfortunate:(

And yes, while other classes can go melee as well, its the warrior that defines the melee playstyle.

Cleansing ire, that is the source of your adrenal regen. Because you’re pretty much constantly being hit in a fight adrenaline just fills right back up. I’ve played warrior enough to understand adrenal mechanics and how easy and quickly the bar refills.

Are you really saying that 300 range isn’t melee range? Try and maintain 300 distance from another ‘melee’ player, as in theory you shouldn’t get hit at all, record it and come back. Should be easy since 300 is such a huge distance in this game apparently.

If you’re saying being able to do 15kcrits at 1200+ range every 7 seconds or so is unfortunate, then you’ve not played any other classes have you. I’m sure being able to instakill players in the time it takes for a full adrenal must really be hard going.

Kyon.9735:

DuranArgith.1354:

Kyon.9735:

I already posted this.

To obtain something, something of equal value must be lost. It’s clear that Warriors are getting more than what they give. Let’s not talk about how “easy” it is to dodge “easily telegraphed moves” and put in L2P issues as an excuse.

10 points Defense Dogged March – 3 sec regen, 33% reduction to soft CCs
15 points Defense Adrenal Health – Level 3 Adrenaline is 360 HP healed
15 points Fast Hands – 5 second weapon swap cool down

So the basic needs of a warrior is X/X/15/X/15 which leaves them 40 points to play with.

These traits don’t deserve to be in Adept traits nor to be Minor traits because they’re too strong. Make warriors actually trait for these. They have to choose what they get, not get all these strong traits as “freebies” because they’re Minor traits.

Your 3 points:
Dogged march: warrior is a melee, means he needs the added movement impairment resistance so he isn’t kited continuously. The real offender is lemongrass + melandru that all other classes can use anyway, dont blame the warrior for that.

Adrenal health. The healing is per 3 seconds and assuming you have full adrenaline to get the effect. Current Meta is spending your adrenaline as soon as you have it so you trigger cleansing ire and set up a burst, not to sit on it. This trait is mostly useless in battle.

fast hands. not only this ability shouldnt even require 15 points, general consensus is it should have been integrated in the warrior class from the beginning, as a class feature.
At the very least it should only require 5 points and not 15.

What I am suggesting is to make the Minor traits into Major traits as they are too good just to be “freebies” when you go for higher traits. Warriors basically get a really good package by spending small trait points.

With 20 points into discipline, you can get a 33% reduction to soft CCs, more HP sustain (which by the way synergizes very well with Healing signet), and condition removal. The fact is regardless if you use your adrenaline or not, it’s still a win-win situation. If you don’t use it you regenerate HP, if you use it you cleanse conditions.

As for Fast Hands, what I am saying is that it’s too good to be a freebie. I don’t mind if they make it an adept trait as long as it is a Major trait. Warriors usually pair it with Warrior’s Sprint.

TL;DR – Warriors need to choose their traits. Make Adrenal Health either an Adept or Master Major trait so Warriors can’t have all 3 (Dogged March, Cleansing Ire, Adrenal Health). Make Fast Hands a Major Adept trait. Make them choose, Fast Hands or another trait (which is usually warrior’s sprint).

Your post summed up : " 15 points into a trait line is a freebie". " warriors should have it tougher because i don’t like it, make them choose ".

How is having both warrior’s sprint and fast hands a problem now?

Also – regarding warrior’s weakness – do people really not see the issue with lack of specialization efficiency?

Harper.4173:

Kyon.9735:

DuranArgith.1354:

Kyon.9735:

I already posted this.

To obtain something, something of equal value must be lost. It’s clear that Warriors are getting more than what they give. Let’s not talk about how “easy” it is to dodge “easily telegraphed moves” and put in L2P issues as an excuse.

10 points Defense Dogged March – 3 sec regen, 33% reduction to soft CCs
15 points Defense Adrenal Health – Level 3 Adrenaline is 360 HP healed
15 points Fast Hands – 5 second weapon swap cool down

So the basic needs of a warrior is X/X/15/X/15 which leaves them 40 points to play with.

These traits don’t deserve to be in Adept traits nor to be Minor traits because they’re too strong. Make warriors actually trait for these. They have to choose what they get, not get all these strong traits as “freebies” because they’re Minor traits.

Your 3 points:
Dogged march: warrior is a melee, means he needs the added movement impairment resistance so he isn’t kited continuously. The real offender is lemongrass + melandru that all other classes can use anyway, dont blame the warrior for that.

Adrenal health. The healing is per 3 seconds and assuming you have full adrenaline to get the effect. Current Meta is spending your adrenaline as soon as you have it so you trigger cleansing ire and set up a burst, not to sit on it. This trait is mostly useless in battle.

fast hands. not only this ability shouldnt even require 15 points, general consensus is it should have been integrated in the warrior class from the beginning, as a class feature.
At the very least it should only require 5 points and not 15.

What I am suggesting is to make the Minor traits into Major traits as they are too good just to be “freebies” when you go for higher traits. Warriors basically get a really good package by spending small trait points.

With 20 points into discipline, you can get a 33% reduction to soft CCs, more HP sustain (which by the way synergizes very well with Healing signet), and condition removal. The fact is regardless if you use your adrenaline or not, it’s still a win-win situation. If you don’t use it you regenerate HP, if you use it you cleanse conditions.

As for Fast Hands, what I am saying is that it’s too good to be a freebie. I don’t mind if they make it an adept trait as long as it is a Major trait. Warriors usually pair it with Warrior’s Sprint.

TL;DR – Warriors need to choose their traits. Make Adrenal Health either an Adept or Master Major trait so Warriors can’t have all 3 (Dogged March, Cleansing Ire, Adrenal Health). Make Fast Hands a Major Adept trait. Make them choose, Fast Hands or another trait (which is usually warrior’s sprint).

Your post summed up : " 15 points into a trait line is a freebie". " warriors should have it tougher because i don’t like it, make them choose ".

How is having both warrior’s sprint and fast hands a problem now?

Also – regarding warrior’s weakness – do people really not see the issue with lack of specialization efficiency?

No, it’s not because I don’t like it but rather don’t you find it true that warriors are getting a lot just for putting in a few trait points? I guess your hostility means I hit a spot. And what’s more, this kind of argument will be more fruitful than those “L2P issues” excuses which will get you nowhere. The reasoning was thoroughly explained, you need to read it again.

I have no problems with warriors having both warriors sprint and fast hands or having all 3 of Dogged March, Adrenal Health, and Cleansing Ire as long as they fairly invest for it.

But seriously that kind of attitude will get you nowhere. You’re putting words into my mouth and your sarcasm failed miserably.

Well I’m a warrior player…and in that instance not any warrior player…I run along with a full cleric banner build…so I’m one of those guys that out regen most damage.

My position is simple, regen needs a nerf on the healing power contribution to it…at large amounts of healing power you manage to regen a lot, this gives a survivability that coupled with the mobility of great sword is just deadly.

So tipicaly a fight goes like this great sword 5 to close distance, thousand blades, whirlwind when pressured, regen and run, rinse and repeat and sometimes use long bow to long distance targets. The sheer amount of times i can do this while under heavy fire makes me win most fights…and I aint even speaking when i use hammer…

So…agreeing that a debuf is needed, let me talk about strategies that screw warriors…

Conditions (even with melandru and food with -40% and large health pool, confusion hurts…a lot…use it and abuse it against warriors)

Dodge Hundred Blades…every single time…a part from it there’s no large spike in a full cleric great sword warrior.

Knock down will not work, too much stability…but learn to max blindness skills up time on your opponent, blindness can save your life against me.

Patience and remember I regen a lot…but that means i have to sacrifice that regeneration to use two things:

-healing signet : will only use it when I’m spiked (so spikers are needed to reduce my regeneration)
-I’m away from my banner, so please don’t ever ever fight a warrior anywhere near a banner (full cleric regen for banner is just wonkers), better yet interrupt me while im casting the banner.
-I use F1 to use adrenalin…but remember I’ll never ever do that on greatsword (except if i feel i can down ya) but in longbow…ah I’m gonna use it a lot…and my regen is gonna suffer…spike me then, and make me use healing signet.

Hope this helps,
Best regards

So basically you need a class which can spike damage and can cast confusion and blinds alot, and conditions.

So basically….no one class.

At the point someone is basically saying ‘If you bring multiple classes you can probably win against me’ there’s something wrong with the class.

The true weakness is….
another warrior!

The true weakness of warriors is ironically enough rangers.
Why?
Rangers can with 1 build apply soft CC spammage, hard CC spammage, perma poison in addition to having a massive amount of evades, passive regen close to that of the warrior and enough armor to tank through their bursts.

Only applies 1v1 or 1v2. In zergs everything dies to anything.

Talyn Sneider.1825:

Well I’m a warrior player…and in that instance not any warrior player…I run along with a full cleric banner build…so I’m one of those guys that out regen most damage.

My position is simple, regen needs a nerf on the healing power contribution to it…at large amounts of healing power you manage to regen a lot, this gives a survivability that coupled with the mobility of great sword is just deadly.

So tipicaly a fight goes like this great sword 5 to close distance, thousand blades, whirlwind when pressured, regen and run, rinse and repeat and sometimes use long bow to long distance targets. The sheer amount of times i can do this while under heavy fire makes me win most fights…and I aint even speaking when i use hammer…

So…agreeing that a debuf is needed, let me talk about strategies that screw warriors…

Conditions (even with melandru and food with -40% and large health pool, confusion hurts…a lot…use it and abuse it against warriors)

Dodge Hundred Blades…every single time…a part from it there’s no large spike in a full cleric great sword warrior.

Knock down will not work, too much stability…but learn to max blindness skills up time on your opponent, blindness can save your life against me.

Patience and remember I regen a lot…but that means i have to sacrifice that regeneration to use two things:

-healing signet : will only use it when I’m spiked (so spikers are needed to reduce my regeneration)
-I’m away from my banner, so please don’t ever ever fight a warrior anywhere near a banner (full cleric regen for banner is just wonkers), better yet interrupt me while im casting the banner.
-I use F1 to use adrenalin…but remember I’ll never ever do that on greatsword (except if i feel i can down ya) but in longbow…ah I’m gonna use it a lot…and my regen is gonna suffer…spike me then, and make me use healing signet.

Hope this helps,
Best regards

Let me guess – you are playing this spec not in spvp? Because good luck outregening anything but bunker builds. Your 100 blades will do what, 4k damage max? because fully traided with 100 crit in spvp it does 10k on heavy target if full channnel. 1 time i fought simmilar “regening” warrior, he die, not after 15s, but 25s but he died, doing absoltely 0 dmg.

Not gonna kitten talk people skill at wvw but most people who complain come from there having 0 skill in actual dueling. 1×1 dead = probably op class right?

Prysin.8542:

The true weakness of warriors is ironically enough rangers.
Why?
Rangers can with 1 build apply soft CC spammage, hard CC spammage, perma poison in addition to having a massive amount of evades, passive regen close to that of the warrior and enough armor to tank through their bursts.

Only applies 1v1 or 1v2. In zergs everything dies to anything.

A warrior pop stability for 8-10sec. Endure pain and does not give a kitten. If he is bunker he is able to have additional 8-10 sec of stability and before he dies endure pain is activated by a trait.

Zergs ? A warrior does not give a kitten

To Introp.: As most people complained about the regen of warriors I gave examples of a full cleric build…yes this is not a correct build for duelling but swap cleric for full apothecary intro runes of perplexity 4 and 2 runes of melandru condition reduction food, and swap great sword for sword sword and you get a much more dangerous foe in 1 vs 1. And the tips also apply to it. Please don’t comment on skill…I make no intentions on being pro just giving some heads up to help.

Lupanic.6502:

Prysin.8542:

The true weakness of warriors is ironically enough rangers.
Why?
Rangers can with 1 build apply soft CC spammage, hard CC spammage, perma poison in addition to having a massive amount of evades, passive regen close to that of the warrior and enough armor to tank through their bursts.

Only applies 1v1 or 1v2. In zergs everything dies to anything.

A warrior pop stability for 8-10sec. Endure pain and does not give a kitten. If he is bunker he is able to have additional 8-10 sec of stability and before he dies endure pain is activated by a trait.

Zergs ? A warrior does not give a kitten

warrior can be slowed, immobilised in that time. Why would u hit him if u see numbers of damage equal to 0? wait 4 or 5s, kite him a bit. If you go full stances, you come with 0 adrenaline to a fight, u cant boost it with heals or signet, so this means u r not killing anything in those 10-15s. Maybe im this bad, but it takes some time to kill people because they have ways to escape damage as well – clones, stealth, slows, dodges, immob and so on. Why do you stand and tank damage and die?
Personally i kill most of rangers, but trust me, ive seen 80% of them standing in 1 effin place eating every skill i use on them, while any half brained guy can even walk out of hammer skills, u dont even need to dodge those.

warrior can burst you down only if he is coming with full adrenaline and if you are careless

^ to guy above. Hybrid doesn’t work. If you go condi build – its not full bunker then.
And sorry, i will always comment on skill, because good players kill any class, bad ones spend time crying in forums ( not ment directly to you)

To the fact you need several people to bring down a warrior…(I also think warriors are overpowered) depends on the class and build…to most builds facing this build it’s true…but there are exceptions…thiefs, necros and mesmers all have the tools to make a warrior life miserable…they have to work and pay attention but they can do it. A mesmer can spike using confusion before a thousand blades. Necros steadily eat you up, too much conditions and too many cover conditions to get rid of the hard hitting one (fear), weakness and blindness help them stay alive. Thiefs can spike you and simply vanish leaving all my offensive solutions in the dark, mesmers and clone swapping are a problem to kill, and well timed confusions (before thousand blades) are deadly.

And remember 50% or more of the insane regenerarion comes from my banner which is easily interruptable (specially because we warriors save our stability for later), so we start casting banner you knock us down, no matter what dont allow us to place our banners…that is half the battle. If we do simply refuse to fight us where the banner is.

To Introp.: Condition Bunker is a meta build viable for warrior. With pretty solid condition damage dealing in duels.

Talyn Sneider.1825:

To Introp.: Condition Bunker is a meta build viable for warrior. With pretty solid condition damage dealing in duels.

sure thing, thats why everyone is runing hambow and just it
warrior condi has burning, bleeding and tornment, such hard times cleansing 3 condis. not to mention main damage from burning comes from enemy standing in the fire circle? Maybe its meta on pro level, but none of us are pro and as i mentioned, pros beat each other without whining.

Warrior weakness is relying on stances. If you dont play stance build ( like i do 90% of times, i play for fun and roll different weapon set every day just for fun), you die so fast.
And if you see your type of damage doing 0 or being not put on war – wait those kitten seconds and continue killing him after 5 or 8s ends, so simple, yet people bash their head into wondering why no damages

Introp.8465:

Lupanic.6502:

Prysin.8542:

The true weakness of warriors is ironically enough rangers.
Why?
Rangers can with 1 build apply soft CC spammage, hard CC spammage, perma poison in addition to having a massive amount of evades, passive regen close to that of the warrior and enough armor to tank through their bursts.

Only applies 1v1 or 1v2. In zergs everything dies to anything.

A warrior pop stability for 8-10sec. Endure pain and does not give a kitten. If he is bunker he is able to have additional 8-10 sec of stability and before he dies endure pain is activated by a trait.

Zergs ? A warrior does not give a kitten

warrior can be slowed, immobilised in that time. Why would u hit him if u see numbers of damage equal to 0? wait 4 or 5s, kite him a bit. If you go full stances, you come with 0 adrenaline to a fight, u cant boost it with heals or signet, so this means u r not killing anything in those 10-15s. Maybe im this bad, but it takes some time to kill people because they have ways to escape damage as well – clones, stealth, slows, dodges, immob and so on. Why do you stand and tank damage and die?
Personally i kill most of rangers, but trust me, ive seen 80% of them standing in 1 effin place eating every skill i use on them, while any half brained guy can even walk out of hammer skills, u dont even need to dodge those.

warrior can burst you down only if he is coming with full adrenaline and if you are careless

^ to guy above. Hybrid doesn’t work. If you go condi build – its not full bunker then.
And sorry, i will always comment on skill, because good players kill any class, bad ones spend time crying in forums ( not ment directly to you)

Like the guys wrote it. Condi warrior is the meta and he does not care about slows at all. Sword #4 has a range 900 and bow is standard. Sorry no weakness for condi warrior at the moment.

Harper.4173:

Also – regarding warrior’s weakness – do people really not see the issue with lack of specialization efficiency?

Again, that is completely irrelevant. The issue is NOT that warriors are better at specializing, but that they are better off because they can have enough of everything without being REQUIRED to specialize.

Lupanic.6502:

Introp.8465:

Lupanic.6502:

Prysin.8542:

The true weakness of warriors is ironically enough rangers.
Why?
Rangers can with 1 build apply soft CC spammage, hard CC spammage, perma poison in addition to having a massive amount of evades, passive regen close to that of the warrior and enough armor to tank through their bursts.

Only applies 1v1 or 1v2. In zergs everything dies to anything.

A warrior pop stability for 8-10sec. Endure pain and does not give a kitten. If he is bunker he is able to have additional 8-10 sec of stability and before he dies endure pain is activated by a trait.

Zergs ? A warrior does not give a kitten

warrior can be slowed, immobilised in that time. Why would u hit him if u see numbers of damage equal to 0? wait 4 or 5s, kite him a bit. If you go full stances, you come with 0 adrenaline to a fight, u cant boost it with heals or signet, so this means u r not killing anything in those 10-15s. Maybe im this bad, but it takes some time to kill people because they have ways to escape damage as well – clones, stealth, slows, dodges, immob and so on. Why do you stand and tank damage and die?
Personally i kill most of rangers, but trust me, ive seen 80% of them standing in 1 effin place eating every skill i use on them, while any half brained guy can even walk out of hammer skills, u dont even need to dodge those.

warrior can burst you down only if he is coming with full adrenaline and if you are careless

^ to guy above. Hybrid doesn’t work. If you go condi build – its not full bunker then.
And sorry, i will always comment on skill, because good players kill any class, bad ones spend time crying in forums ( not ment directly to you)

Like the guys wrote it. Condi warrior is the meta and he does not care about slows at all. Sword #4 has a range 900 and bow is standard. Sorry no weakness for condi warrior at the moment.

only that he has 2 easy accesable condis, when other classes can remove them in seconds? torment has cd and u need to land it, people dodge it in spvp, maybe in wvw they eat everything u aim at player direction. You stack bleed 10 times with burst skill – cleansed in 2s. so you do 0 damage then. they walk out of fire – 0 damage. such no counter, wow

To Introp: I kinda agree with you…even with full regeneration is easy to die if you stand there and are overconfident, but being able to easily use movement skills to escape fight then using swiftness to be out of combat, and during that time always regenerating is a very strong survival tool…the best warriors don’s stand next to you for long, they go in strike and exit, then regen, then use longbow for pressure, then as health allows go in and strike again.

The problem is that longbow allows for great pressure allowing warrior to make his enemy retreat when he should be able to push into the warrior to take the rest of his life…some warriors I’ve know prefer longbow to any other weapon they have cause of this.

And the main conditional damage output is simply bleeding, the rest of the conditions are there as cover conditions, perplexity runes allow you to have less pressure on you (confusion on hit) and regen more easily…sword will stack bleeding to wooping values…longbow is a weapon you use not to kill but to keep the enemy at bay to regen and allow for another run with sword sword.

And all the conditions a condition bunker warrior uses are:

Bleeding (damage dealing)
Poison (cover)
Torment (cover)
Confusion (cover and pressure denial)
Cripple (cover)
Burning (mostly cover)

BurrTheKing.8571:

Just going to say it’s annoying that I posted the answer to the OP’s question and it got ignored in favor of LB’s use in WvW.

That’s because the people here aren’t really interested in improving their gameplay or finding ways to beat the warrior. They are here to cry because they are really bad at the game, and hating is easier than improving. It’s a sign of the times, people nowadays prefer crying and hating to problem solving and reasoning. Good post by the way. I could probably add a few points to it, but why bother.

If you check, the people crying here are how OP the warrior is also cried in the posts about how warriors were always running away from them and they couldn’t stop it. So why does such a supposed OP profession feel the need to run away so often? An OP character doesn’t run away, he smashes your face. Running away shows that the warrior is not OP. People are just too stupid to get it.

To everybody else that’s crying. I main a warrior. I know their weaknesses. They do have them. I also play Thief, Mesmer, Guardian, and Ranger. I eat warriors on those professions. It is really easy. You truly are bad, and nerfing the warrior class won’t make you better – you’ll still get beaten by them, because bad players are always gonna get face-planted. There is no hope for you. Sorry.

Black Box.9312:

Harper.4173:

Also – regarding warrior’s weakness – do people really not see the issue with lack of specialization efficiency?

Again, that is completely irrelevant. The issue is NOT that warriors are better at specializing, but that they are better off because they can have enough of everything without being REQUIRED to specialize.

Exactly. Specializing implies the warrior had to give something up to be better at one thing. When in fact, the warrior gives up nothing to be better at everything.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Warriors should not have any weakness.

They are supposed to be the ultimate class at everything in this game that everybody
uses and loves.

For whatever reason, some people prefer to be weaker and play a class other than Warrior because they want “variety”. But when given the choice between a fresh tomato and a rotten one, the same people always choose the fresh tomato. Double standards.

The sole reason why other classes exist is for you to compare them with the Warrior. If all tomatoes were fresh, we would not know which one to pick, but if all of them are rotten and one of them is fresh, the choice is obvious.

Some people even say that they chose a different profession at the start of the game and decided to stick with it. But if you ask the same people this:
If you bought a tomato and found out it was a rotten one later on, do you follow through and eat it knowing that you will get sick? Or do you go buy another one making sure it is fresh this time?
They always answer that they went to buy a fresh one, but they refuse to re-roll a Warrior.

Please stop trying to rot the only fresh tomato and choose Warrior as your class. That way you can be happy as well.

+1 for anet logic. Everybody complaining about warrior needs to understand that the quoted is how anet sees class balance.

phaeris.7604:

DuranArgith.1354:

F1 skills do not generate adrenaline unless you have the furious trait and you crit.
Anet also believed this was the case and nerfed the longbow without any reason.

Also, no D/D eles are not melee. D/D ele is range 300, melee weapons are range 130.

Warriors only have 1 semi viable ranged weapon, the longbow. Rifle is…unfortunate:(

And yes, while other classes can go melee as well, its the warrior that defines the melee playstyle.

Cleansing ire, that is the source of your adrenal regen. Because you’re pretty much constantly being hit in a fight adrenaline just fills right back up. I’ve played warrior enough to understand adrenal mechanics and how easy and quickly the bar refills.

Are you really saying that 300 range isn’t melee range? Try and maintain 300 distance from another ‘melee’ player, as in theory you shouldn’t get hit at all, record it and come back. Should be easy since 300 is such a huge distance in this game apparently.

If you’re saying being able to do 15kcrits at 1200+ range every 7 seconds or so is unfortunate, then you’ve not played any other classes have you. I’m sure being able to instakill players in the time it takes for a full adrenal must really be hard going.

If you ever, ever, ever get hit by killshot, one on one or a small skirmish, the problem is the player, not the skill. Block it, reflect it, aegis, blind it, you know when its coming because a giant red circle appears below your character which means youre the target of a channeled skill. It really cant get more obvious than that. And even if the burst is great, it doesn’t amount to the other 5 bad skills of the rifle. Even longbow outdps the rifle in the long run. The only use rifle has is against stealth thieves, but most warriors wont even carry a rifle to combat one single class.

Now, I sure wish I had that extra 170 range on my melee attacks, every warrior would give his right leg for it, because if you play melee long enough you would know how much of an advantage that would give you. Im guessing you never played melee as you claim, if you think that those extra units are nothing.

Yes, cleansing ire produces most of the adrenaline, but the conversation is about adrenal health, and like I said, warriors DO NOT sit on their adrenaline. They use it as much as possible which makes adrenal give only a fraction of the regen.

phaeris.7604:

So you’re equating hours played to being good?

All it shows is you have alot of time on your hands and favour playing the easiest class out of your sig.

Or it shows that you’re a bitter person who takes to personal attacks on the forums instead of trying to win after a series of losses.

Marsares.2053:

Therefore, rank does not equate to skill. In most instances, it’s the opposite. There’s a reason why most WvW-ers are horrible at 1v1, whilst sPvP or tPvP players are a lot better at it.

It’s WvW. No one cares about your “precious 1v1”. It doesn’t win you the game. Fights aren’t balanced – they’re not supposed to be. If you try to challenge me to a 1v1 in WvW, I’ll be evasive until my friend(s) come into range and we overpower you. Why risk a defeat if I can guarantee a success?
(I prefer to play smart instead of fair, sorry)

Plus, sPvP has too small teams to enable balance. Push it to 15-20 per side and it might be possible to balance it.

I mean I still agree that Warriors need a lot of nerfs (and a fair assortment of buffs to other things), but really, get off your high horse.

DuranArgith.1354:

phaeris.7604:

DuranArgith.1354:

F1 skills do not generate adrenaline unless you have the furious trait and you crit.
Anet also believed this was the case and nerfed the longbow without any reason.

Also, no D/D eles are not melee. D/D ele is range 300, melee weapons are range 130.

Warriors only have 1 semi viable ranged weapon, the longbow. Rifle is…unfortunate:(

And yes, while other classes can go melee as well, its the warrior that defines the melee playstyle.

Cleansing ire, that is the source of your adrenal regen. Because you’re pretty much constantly being hit in a fight adrenaline just fills right back up. I’ve played warrior enough to understand adrenal mechanics and how easy and quickly the bar refills.

Are you really saying that 300 range isn’t melee range? Try and maintain 300 distance from another ‘melee’ player, as in theory you shouldn’t get hit at all, record it and come back. Should be easy since 300 is such a huge distance in this game apparently.

If you’re saying being able to do 15kcrits at 1200+ range every 7 seconds or so is unfortunate, then you’ve not played any other classes have you. I’m sure being able to instakill players in the time it takes for a full adrenal must really be hard going.

If you ever, ever, ever get hit by killshot, one on one or a small skirmish, the problem is the player, not the skill. Block it, reflect it, aegis, blind it, you know when its coming because a giant red circle appears below your character which means youre the target of a channeled skill. It really cant get more obvious than that. And even if the burst is great, it doesn’t amount to the other 5 bad skills of the rifle. Even longbow outdps the rifle in the long run. The only use rifle has is against stealth thieves, but most warriors wont even carry a rifle to combat one single class.

Now, I sure wish I had that extra 170 range on my melee attacks, every warrior would give his right leg for it, because if you play melee long enough you would know how much of an advantage that would give you. Im guessing you never played melee as you claim, if you think that those extra units are nothing.

Yes, cleansing ire produces most of the adrenaline, but the conversation is about adrenal health, and like I said, warriors DO NOT sit on their adrenaline. They use it as much as possible which makes adrenal give only a fraction of the regen.

This. D/D eles are not melee range. The have more than twice the range of a melee character. That is more than significant – it is huge. Stop calling D/D Ele’s melee, it’s ridiculous. Lol at the Killshot rant; that totally destroys your credibility.

The post is actually about warrior weaknesses, and you are all way off-topic. Try to get it together….

havoc.6814:

DuranArgith.1354:

phaeris.7604:

DuranArgith.1354:

F1 skills do not generate adrenaline unless you have the furious trait and you crit.
Anet also believed this was the case and nerfed the longbow without any reason.

Also, no D/D eles are not melee. D/D ele is range 300, melee weapons are range 130.

Warriors only have 1 semi viable ranged weapon, the longbow. Rifle is…unfortunate:(

And yes, while other classes can go melee as well, its the warrior that defines the melee playstyle.

Cleansing ire, that is the source of your adrenal regen. Because you’re pretty much constantly being hit in a fight adrenaline just fills right back up. I’ve played warrior enough to understand adrenal mechanics and how easy and quickly the bar refills.

Are you really saying that 300 range isn’t melee range? Try and maintain 300 distance from another ‘melee’ player, as in theory you shouldn’t get hit at all, record it and come back. Should be easy since 300 is such a huge distance in this game apparently.

If you’re saying being able to do 15kcrits at 1200+ range every 7 seconds or so is unfortunate, then you’ve not played any other classes have you. I’m sure being able to instakill players in the time it takes for a full adrenal must really be hard going.

If you ever, ever, ever get hit by killshot, one on one or a small skirmish, the problem is the player, not the skill. Block it, reflect it, aegis, blind it, you know when its coming because a giant red circle appears below your character which means youre the target of a channeled skill. It really cant get more obvious than that. And even if the burst is great, it doesn’t amount to the other 5 bad skills of the rifle. Even longbow outdps the rifle in the long run. The only use rifle has is against stealth thieves, but most warriors wont even carry a rifle to combat one single class.

Now, I sure wish I had that extra 170 range on my melee attacks, every warrior would give his right leg for it, because if you play melee long enough you would know how much of an advantage that would give you. Im guessing you never played melee as you claim, if you think that those extra units are nothing.

Yes, cleansing ire produces most of the adrenaline, but the conversation is about adrenal health, and like I said, warriors DO NOT sit on their adrenaline. They use it as much as possible which makes adrenal give only a fraction of the regen.

This. D/D eles are not melee range. The have more than twice the range of a melee character. That is more than significant – it is huge. Stop calling D/D Ele’s melee, it’s ridiculous. Lol at the Killshot rant; that totally destroys your credibility.

The post is actually about warrior weaknesses, and you are all way off-topic. Try to get it together….

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elementalist

Yet Anet themselves consider Elementalist Main Hand Dagger “Close Range”.

But I agree, no need for the Kill Shot QQ. It’ll just end up to another L2P issue which will never get resolved.

WhiteRose.6934:

Black Box.9312:

Harper.4173:

Also – regarding warrior’s weakness – do people really not see the issue with lack of specialization efficiency?

Again, that is completely irrelevant. The issue is NOT that warriors are better at specializing, but that they are better off because they can have enough of everything without being REQUIRED to specialize.

Exactly. Specializing implies the warrior had to give something up to be better at one thing. When in fact, the warrior gives up nothing to be better at everything.

As I previously mentioned, yes I agree, some Warrior trait lines is a package deal. You can get the best of both worlds without “investing” a lot to it which is not the same as other classes. To be the Jack-Of-All-Trades (Good at everything, best at nothing) is not the same as the Alpha Male.

Kyon.9735:

As I previously mentioned, yes I agree, some Warrior trait lines is a package deal. You can get the best of both worlds without “investing” a lot to it which is not the same as other classes. To be the Jack-Of-All-Trades (Good at everything, best at nothing) is not the same as the Alpha Male.

Only problem is that warriors aren’t a “jack of all trades”, they’re a “master-of-all-trades”. Specialists of other classes are Grandmasters of their field, perhaps, but the line between the two is really too small to be fair.

havoc.6814:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Just going to say it’s annoying that I posted the answer to the OP’s question and it got ignored in favor of LB’s use in WvW.

That’s because the people here aren’t really interested in improving their gameplay or finding ways to beat the warrior. They are here to cry because they are really bad at the game, and hating is easier than improving. It’s a sign of the times, people nowadays prefer crying and hating to problem solving and reasoning. Good post by the way. I could probably add a few points to it, but why bother.

I feel that there have been several constructive posts of both Warrior and non-Warrior mains. Why don’t be a rolemodel and focus on those posts instead of all that hate towards non-Warrior mains?

A “Why bother?” attitude just implies you do not value other opinions anyway. Also, commenting every post of non-Warriors as non-sense is quite disrespectul. Such a behaviour doesn’t nurture a constructive discussion. If you’re actually interested in one you might want to reconsider your own contributions to this thread so far. This, by the way, adresses everyone posting in such kind of threads. I’m really fed up with the behaviour of some people here on the forum when it comes to balancing.

So, why don’t you actually post your opinion what the weaknesses are? I’m sure people will gladly consider your personal opinion as long as it is voiced in a reasonable and respectful manner.

i think gw2 will always be unbalanced cause its nature how traits work. where some traits by itself arent op they come to strong combined with other traits through its adding nature.
so nerfing something will only result to a state that the single trait or skill isnt viable anymore on other builds and only the certain combined build is fixed. what gw2 needs is a conditional balance. so if xxx then yyy else zzz.

Kyon.9735:

….As I previously mentioned, yes I agree, some Warrior trait lines is a package deal. You can get the best of both worlds without “investing” a lot to it which is not the same as other classes. To be the Jack-Of-All-Trades (Good at everything, best at nothing) is not the same as the Alpha Male….

Considering that a “glass cannon warrior” has massive damage (rightly so as a glass cannon) and also has the armor and sustain of a bunker (yeah that shouldn’t happen), and immunity to CC (lol what’s cripple, some kind of hairstyle?) I think that your “Jack- of all trades” has graduated to “Alpha Male”.

If they were good at everything but best at nothing they would be like elementalist and actually be hindered by the fact they don’t excel anywhere but do a little of everything. Warrior does a whole lot of everything and is the best at it.

You can get the best of both worlds without “investing” a lot to it which is not the same as other classes.

Getting the “Best” is not balanced. Getting a little bit would be, every class can spec and get some of everything. No class can get the “best” of everything except warrior.

Let me explain how to beat a warrior with a ranger

Hyena. It acts like NPC wolfs, calling for a ally. Dogs can be traited to apply 6s cripple upon pressing F2. This means that warrior gets crippled, hyena get spawned, and then the knockdown-hell starts. If you got shortbow, that is 2x knockdown + 1x stun. Then you can apply more cripple while he is down, and poison, and bleeding.

Then you talk about moving in and out of fights, swap for Jungle Spider, fire off immobilize ranged attack which has….. 900 range. Then spider does its thing and apply another immob shortly after. Meaning your warrior aint going nowhere. Pop Muddy Terrain and he can still cleans immob, but he’ll be crippled. Swap to Sword + Dagger and apply MOAR poison and cripple and bleed. Infact, just keep up that poison forever, because you can, because it is ridiculously easy for a ranger to do it. If warrior cleanses condies and comes at you, Sword 2, Sword 3, Dagger 4, Shortbow 3, Lightning Reflexes…. thats 5 evades on 8-40 sec CD max. Not counting dodges and high vigor uptime.
Oh and remember, BM Bunker is a BUNKER BUILD, so rangers will have around 150-380hps passive regen at all times depending on your traits. Now, like i stated earlier, your warrior will not win against a ranger 1v1 if both are equally skilled.

Then again most rangers are terrible so ya, that does affect the status quo to some degree.

Prysin.8542:

Let me explain how to beat a warrior with a ranger

Hyena. It acts like NPC wolfs, calling for a ally. Dogs can be traited to apply 6s cripple upon pressing F2. This means that warrior gets crippled, hyena get spawned, and then the knockdown-hell starts. If you got shortbow, that is 2x knockdown + 1x stun. Then you can apply more cripple while he is down, and poison, and bleeding.

Then you talk about moving in and out of fights, swap for Jungle Spider, fire off immobilize ranged attack which has….. 900 range. Then spider does its thing and apply another immob shortly after. Meaning your warrior aint going nowhere. Pop Muddy Terrain and he can still cleans immob, but he’ll be crippled. Swap to Sword + Dagger and apply MOAR poison and cripple and bleed. Infact, just keep up that poison forever, because you can, because it is ridiculously easy for a ranger to do it. If warrior cleanses condies and comes at you, Sword 2, Sword 3, Dagger 4, Shortbow 3, Lightning Reflexes…. thats 5 evades on 8-40 sec CD max. Not counting dodges and high vigor uptime.
Oh and remember, BM Bunker is a BUNKER BUILD, so rangers will have around 150-380hps passive regen at all times depending on your traits. Now, like i stated earlier, your warrior will not win against a ranger 1v1 if both are equally skilled.

Then again most rangers are terrible so ya, that does affect the status quo to some degree.

DM + Food. Gap closers + stuns on the ranger = Dead.

While the conditions are just rolling off the warriors back and he’s ignoring the hyena’s attacks (because lol healing sig) the ranger is stuck doing no damage (due to actually being spec’d bunker) and the warrior is free to maul him.

That’s actually how the fight would go.

I’m still not following this whole ‘best of everything’ argument. For specing into their bunker line… the Warrior becomes a bunker. They don’t gain any damage. Their weapons don’t have the highest base damage or coefficients in the game. etc.

Are we complaining that a Warrior’s traits make sense and shouldn’t make sense as opposed to arguing for things like Empathic Bond being a 20pt trait or how an Elementalist needs Evasive Arcana? Why limit the Warrior’s build diversity instead of correcting the issues that limit it for other classes?

Most of a Warrior’s DPS traits are in strength and arms. The meta builds don’t invest points in either of these. Where is this ‘everything’ you guys keep bringing up.

Warriors are not particularly strong in a straight up 1v1, but sadly theres no game mode which promotes real 1v1s. In PvP you are forced to fight on this tiny little circle (if you are defending) making combat mobility a problem, which in turn makes warriors (and necros) more dangerous than really are.

This is why theives and mesmers arent home point defenders.. they are 2 of the very strongest 1v1 classes but they do it by moving and stealthing meaning they are useless in point defence, whereas a warrior whos defence is just standing there and taking it like a boss while doing huge AoE attacks which need to be dodged is perfectly suited to that sort of restricted fight. It actually actively helps them because their opponent cant avoid them like they want to.

Then in WvW roaming its the same.. warriors still arent particularly strong to fight 1v1s, but because people there build for high mobility trying to kill a warrior who doesnt want to die becomes a serious issue.

Essentially a warriors weakness is having to fight an opponent without being able to run and without them being “trapped” in a little circle, but thats never ever the case in this game unless they actively choose to fight you that way.

Warrior Gap closers should require a target.

That fixes the mobility problem.

Atherakhia.4086:

I’m still not following this whole ‘best of everything’ argument. For specing into their bunker line… the Warrior becomes a bunker. They don’t gain any damage. Their weapons don’t have the highest base damage or coefficients in the game. etc.

I personally don’t think that is true. Investing 20-30 points in Defense doesn’t make a Warrior a bunker. However, combined with HS and, for example, Stances those traits offer a very good defensive package on a competitive level while maintaining good damage. If this wasn’t the case Warriors would not be that dominant in PvP.

Nobody is arguing that they can get the maximum potential damage plus the ability to perfectly bunker. But they do not have to make meaningful sacrifices on either side of the spectrum to be competitive in different aspects of PvP/WvW.

Atherakhia.4086:

Are we complaining that a Warrior’s traits make sense and shouldn’t make sense as opposed to arguing for things like Empathic Bond being a 20pt trait or how an Elementalist needs Evasive Arcana? Why limit the Warrior’s build diversity instead of correcting the issues that limit it for other classes?

Interesting traits which offer great synergies aren’t a bad thing. But they are questionable when they become mandatory. How is there any build diversity if the vast majority of Warriors runs 20-30 Defense in combination with the HS?

Moving traits like Empathic Bond on Rangers down does not increase build diversity. You will still be forced to pick those traits. Just the amount of points invested change. If you want to increase build diversity you have to offer alternatives. However, the important question will be: Are the alternatives (if existent) too weak or are the currently preferred traits too strong?

Atherakhia.4086:

Most of a Warrior’s DPS traits are in strength and arms. The meta builds don’t invest points in either of these. Where is this ‘everything’ you guys keep bringing up.

When talking about Hambows this is quite obvious. Because there are no related traits in Strength. 20 Arms on the other hand is quite common, right? Discipline also offers a high amount of offensive traits.

Again, nobody is talking about max. damage + max. defense but about a sufficient amount of both within one build. That’s the reason why it feels rather difficult to isolate meaningful weaknesses in the current state of the Warrior. It is not like there are any. But they are pretty negligible.

WhiteRose.6934:

Prysin.8542:

Let me explain how to beat a warrior with a ranger

Hyena. It acts like NPC wolfs, calling for a ally. Dogs can be traited to apply 6s cripple upon pressing F2. This means that warrior gets crippled, hyena get spawned, and then the knockdown-hell starts. If you got shortbow, that is 2x knockdown + 1x stun. Then you can apply more cripple while he is down, and poison, and bleeding.

Then you talk about moving in and out of fights, swap for Jungle Spider, fire off immobilize ranged attack which has….. 900 range. Then spider does its thing and apply another immob shortly after. Meaning your warrior aint going nowhere. Pop Muddy Terrain and he can still cleans immob, but he’ll be crippled. Swap to Sword + Dagger and apply MOAR poison and cripple and bleed. Infact, just keep up that poison forever, because you can, because it is ridiculously easy for a ranger to do it. If warrior cleanses condies and comes at you, Sword 2, Sword 3, Dagger 4, Shortbow 3, Lightning Reflexes…. thats 5 evades on 8-40 sec CD max. Not counting dodges and high vigor uptime.
Oh and remember, BM Bunker is a BUNKER BUILD, so rangers will have around 150-380hps passive regen at all times depending on your traits. Now, like i stated earlier, your warrior will not win against a ranger 1v1 if both are equally skilled.

Then again most rangers are terrible so ya, that does affect the status quo to some degree.

DM + Food. Gap closers + stuns on the ranger = Dead.

While the conditions are just rolling off the warriors back and he’s ignoring the hyena’s attacks (because lol healing sig) the ranger is stuck doing no damage (due to actually being spec’d bunker) and the warrior is free to maul him.

That’s actually how the fight would go.

you’ve never fought a bunker ranger ever, it is painfully obvious. Or you are a troll, pick one or the other.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’m getting tired of this pointless circle-jerk.

Some counters, going with Hambow as it’s the most common, some of these examples can be beaten by other Warrior builds but those would in term lose to builds Hambow may not etc.:

1. PU Mesmer. Having all your AIs scattered about makes them not be taken out by Combustive Shot. With all of the stun breaks, teleports, and blurred frenzy you should never be hit by a full Hammer combo.

2. Melee Ranger. The build I’ve found that works best was Axe/Dagger+Sword/Torch with 0/0/30/30/10. I lost to this a few times and tried it out for myself and even with my terrible mastery of the playstyle (I find it odd to let my skills do most of the moving for me and end up canceling skills by accident) I could beat most meta Warrior builds. It has insane regen, but also tons of protection. In fact the person I got this build off of beat pretty much every 1v1 I saw them get into. Undead runes with Rabid gear makes them capable of large condi spikes and most importantly they almost always have poison applied. Add it Rampage as One and for 20 seconds the Warrior can do very little damage to you and you can force them to use most of their long CD condition skills while it’s up.

3. Standard Condi Necro with Golem. The one big mistake I always see Necros make is that they use all their best skills at the start and while Berseker Stance is up. You have to putt on just enough condis to force the stance, kite while it’s active, then wait until they use their burst and pile everything on. If you see them go for another burst to cleanse use the Goelm’s charge to either force them to use their Stability (Hambow only brings generally, contrary to popular belief) and if you can corrupt it while laying down the Fear you’re a shoe-in. Now, if they have say Signet of Stamina they may win,but that means they went full on into countering you and it makes them weaker to the other 2 builds mentioned.

4. Damage Guardian. I don’t know a ton about this build but I do know that with all of their blind, high damage, and access to invulnerability that they have a strong chance of beating the Warrior, especially if you get the upper hand early. Same thing as Necro, don’t waste your blinds when Zerker Stance is up and use your blocks that will last you for most of the duration and then blind the big telegraphed Hammer attacks and it’s cash money.

5. Blind Thieves. Similar to Guardian, it’s all about saving your blinds for the big telegraphed attacks and suddenly their DPS is kitten poor. Especially potent is using the steal skill in a blind field, it’s probably the most annoying thing ever to a Warrior.

I’m sure there’s a few more I’ve forgotten but I feel that 5 makes my point, play defensive when Zerker Stance is up, then negate all of the Hammer’s big attacks. Also of note, Pin Down actually does have a different animation, there’s circles around the arrow as it flies. Now this is harder to see coming in CQC but don’t you worry because that’s getting nearly a second charge time soon so at that point Warrior will be the undisputed king of obvious and highly telegraphed attacks.

My biggest gripe with this forum is that I hardly ever hear anyone seriously trying to counter the current meta. Most just instantly throw their hands up in the air when something beats their current build and demand it gets nerfed without even attempting to find a solution. It’s getting really annoying because even in real life everyone wants the solution handed to them on a silver platter rather than trying to fix things yourself.

I like how you put necro and kite in there together during the part of the fight that nothing can slow you down. I mean its easy right?

Kyon.9735:

No, it’s not because I don’t like it but rather don’t you find it true that warriors are getting a lot just for putting in a few trait points? I guess your hostility means I hit a spot. And what’s more, this kind of argument will be more fruitful than those “L2P issues” excuses which will get you nowhere. The reasoning was thoroughly explained, you need to read it again.

I have no problems with warriors having both warriors sprint and fast hands or having all 3 of Dogged March, Adrenal Health, and Cleansing Ire as long as they fairly invest for it.

But seriously that kind of attitude will get you nowhere. You’re putting words into my mouth and your sarcasm failed miserably.

See – you’re assuming. It’s not that you hit a spot – the problem is that you missed it by so much it actually hurts.
Warrior’s sprint and fast hands weren’t an issue since the game was launched but lately ANYTHING about the warrior has been suggested to be godawful OP and terribly strong.
Because the overall flavor of the forums this month has been that warriors are the punching bag of all players that are more or less informed but mostly just angry.
I’ve seen objective and fair arguments made. I’ve seen threads that just went " nerf warrior because i’m mad ". I’ve pretty much read it all.

No – i don’t believe you’re right – you’re saying that they should invest " fairly" but exactly what is and what is not a fair investment isn’t really up to you.

Here’s a thought – warriors had sprint and fast hands before other changes were made and nobody complained about that particular trait investment.

Overall the whole " nerf warrior " phenomenon is happening because too many bads are dying at the hands of a high prevalence profession. And they’re clogging the forums with negative QQ about how the big bad warriors clobbered them instead of maybe considering what’s wrong with their own particular classes if they feel so underpowered.

A 10/10 warrior player will have a VERY hard time and most likely lose to a 10/10 player of other classes.

Samhayn.2385:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’m getting tired of this pointless circle-jerk.

Some counters, going with Hambow as it’s the most common, some of these examples can be beaten by other Warrior builds but those would in term lose to builds Hambow may not etc.:

1. PU Mesmer. Having all your AIs scattered about makes them not be taken out by Combustive Shot. With all of the stun breaks, teleports, and blurred frenzy you should never be hit by a full Hammer combo.

2. Melee Ranger. The build I’ve found that works best was Axe/Dagger+Sword/Torch with 0/0/30/30/10. I lost to this a few times and tried it out for myself and even with my terrible mastery of the playstyle (I find it odd to let my skills do most of the moving for me and end up canceling skills by accident) I could beat most meta Warrior builds. It has insane regen, but also tons of protection. In fact the person I got this build off of beat pretty much every 1v1 I saw them get into. Undead runes with Rabid gear makes them capable of large condi spikes and most importantly they almost always have poison applied. Add it Rampage as One and for 20 seconds the Warrior can do very little damage to you and you can force them to use most of their long CD condition skills while it’s up.

3. Standard Condi Necro with Golem. The one big mistake I always see Necros make is that they use all their best skills at the start and while Berseker Stance is up. You have to putt on just enough condis to force the stance, kite while it’s active, then wait until they use their burst and pile everything on. If you see them go for another burst to cleanse use the Goelm’s charge to either force them to use their Stability (Hambow only brings generally, contrary to popular belief) and if you can corrupt it while laying down the Fear you’re a shoe-in. Now, if they have say Signet of Stamina they may win,but that means they went full on into countering you and it makes them weaker to the other 2 builds mentioned.

4. Damage Guardian. I don’t know a ton about this build but I do know that with all of their blind, high damage, and access to invulnerability that they have a strong chance of beating the Warrior, especially if you get the upper hand early. Same thing as Necro, don’t waste your blinds when Zerker Stance is up and use your blocks that will last you for most of the duration and then blind the big telegraphed Hammer attacks and it’s cash money.

5. Blind Thieves. Similar to Guardian, it’s all about saving your blinds for the big telegraphed attacks and suddenly their DPS is kitten poor. Especially potent is using the steal skill in a blind field, it’s probably the most annoying thing ever to a Warrior.

I’m sure there’s a few more I’ve forgotten but I feel that 5 makes my point, play defensive when Zerker Stance is up, then negate all of the Hammer’s big attacks. Also of note, Pin Down actually does have a different animation, there’s circles around the arrow as it flies. Now this is harder to see coming in CQC but don’t you worry because that’s getting nearly a second charge time soon so at that point Warrior will be the undisputed king of obvious and highly telegraphed attacks.

My biggest gripe with this forum is that I hardly ever hear anyone seriously trying to counter the current meta. Most just instantly throw their hands up in the air when something beats their current build and demand it gets nerfed without even attempting to find a solution. It’s getting really annoying because even in real life everyone wants the solution handed to them on a silver platter rather than trying to fix things yourself.

I like how you put necro and kite in there together during the part of the fight that nothing can slow you down. I mean its easy right?

I found it funny that he referenced guardian’s ‘access to invulnerability’. Because 2 seconds from an elite with a 90 second cooldown is totally superior to anything warrior has.