Guild Wars 2

IMO Cleansing Ire needs a more noticeable and more predictable effect. What if, when going above 5 conditions or 10 stacks on a condition, you cleanse all conditions and cause a burn around you (including graphics, so people know it procced). Then it has a X seconds CD.

Carighan.6758:

IMO Cleansing Ire needs a more noticeable and more predictable effect. What if, when going above 5 conditions or 10 stacks on a condition, you cleanse all conditions and cause a burn around you (including graphics, so people know it procced). Then it has a X seconds CD.

Too big of a nerf, and promotes greater passivity.
If they were to change cleansing ire, I would support the addition of a second f button that would spend adrenaline purely for cleansing (and would of course be somewhat superior to current cleansing). This would promote better thinking and risk/reward, but it is probably too much work and would never happen.

havoc.6814:

Wow, it seems that there is no limit to the number of people who quite simply can’t play and come here to cry for nerfs instead of getting better at the game.

Yes, I main a warrior. I get taken out quite often. Any PU mesmer can take down a warrior while half asleep. A well played necro will melt a warrior even faster. Grenade spamming engineers also have an easy time with warriors.

If warriors were truly so OP, they wouldn’t spend their time running away – something else that all the babies come here to cry about…..

Just because one broken spec can take out another broken spec doesn’t make either of them magically not broken.

This whole game needs nerfs and functionality changes across the board.

Oh I like the idea of another F-button! :o

Stx.4857:

Introp.8465:

. Id sway thief has better damage, better ways to escape death, are better looking, their traits are better, they can use pistol. Can you respond to my points?

Yes actually I can, very easily in fact.

Thieves have superior burst to warriors, which they give up any form of passive survival for. Warriors however, have superior pressure(which they don’t give up passive survival for).

Thief traits are not better. 30 points in shadow arts nets thieves less regen than 15 points defense. Cleansing Ire is better than thief condition removal in stealth(yes the thief one is easier to reach I know).

Yes, I would recommend leaving.

Thief is designed to avoid damage. Warrior is designed to face tank it. Im not sure what comparison you’re hoping to draw from these 2 classes?

Thief burst is higher.
Thief sustained is higher.
Thief avoidance is higher.
Thief traits are all designed to support a high avoidance playstyle.

All of this is the case because the DPS uptime for a Thief is lower due to a lack of damage mitigation and their inability to face tank.

Atherakhia.4086:

Thief sustained is higher.

Bull. Thiefs are pretty low on the sustain once Hide in Shadows is used. They have to back off if their opponent isn’t low. They don’t really have a problem doing it, but they still are forced to have significant downtime if they want to survive.

Thief avoidance is higher.

About even, actually. Thieves may have more Evades, but Warriors match that with (significantly longer) blocks and invulnerabilities.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Atherakhia.4086:

Thief sustained is higher.

Bull. Thiefs are pretty low on the sustain once Hide in Shadows is used. They have to back off if their opponent isn’t low.

Thief avoidance is higher.

About even, actually. Thieves may have more Evades, but Warriors match that with (significantly longer) blocks and invulnerabilities.

We know that the Thief’s DPS is second highest in the game right behind an Ele. So yes, their sustained is much higher than a Warrior.

Thieves have stealth. In any given fight you’re in stealth for much more than the 3 seconds a Warrior has endure pain up.

Atherakhia.4086:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Atherakhia.4086:

Thief sustained is higher.

Bull. Thiefs are pretty low on the sustain once Hide in Shadows is used. They have to back off if their opponent isn’t low.

Thief avoidance is higher.

About even, actually. Thieves may have more Evades, but Warriors match that with (significantly longer) blocks and invulnerabilities.

We know that the Thief’s DPS is second highest in the game right behind an Ele. So yes, their sustained is much higher than a Warrior.

Thieves have stealth. In any given fight you’re in stealth for much more than the 3 seconds a Warrior has endure pain up.

DPS is damage dealt divided by Period. You can have high DPS without having good sustained damage, it just means your burst has to be high. Thieves have high burst. Their sustained damage is pretty bad.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Atherakhia.4086:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Atherakhia.4086:

Thief sustained is higher.

Bull. Thiefs are pretty low on the sustain once Hide in Shadows is used. They have to back off if their opponent isn’t low.

Thief avoidance is higher.

About even, actually. Thieves may have more Evades, but Warriors match that with (significantly longer) blocks and invulnerabilities.

We know that the Thief’s DPS is second highest in the game right behind an Ele. So yes, their sustained is much higher than a Warrior.

Thieves have stealth. In any given fight you’re in stealth for much more than the 3 seconds a Warrior has endure pain up.

DPS is damage dealt divided by Period. You can have high DPS without having good sustained damage, it just means your burst has to be high. Thieves have high burst. Their sustained damage is pretty bad.

Warrior Axe – Chop (Combo) – 2,079.056 DPS
Thief Dagger – Strike (Combo) – 2,469.400 DPS

That’s not factoring in a Warrior swapping in 100b every 4 seconds or a Thief using C&D+backstab.

It appears I was mistaken. Still, the Warrior has more uptime on that damage, so the practical gap is much smaller, if not skewed in favor of the warrior.

Atherakhia.4086:

Thieves have stealth. In any given fight you’re in stealth for much more than the 3 seconds a Warrior has endure pain up.

People seem to have this silly misconception that stealth renders you invulnerable to attack. I’ve killed plenty of thieves while they were in stealth; it’s really not that hard and it’s not really comparable to an invulnerability of any duration.

You can’t claim thieves have higher sustain dps, and then also point out that they avoid damage by sitting in stealth(aka, massively lowering that dps) … Those PvE numbers you provided do not matter at all in PvP, because thieves cant just sit there and dps. Warriors can still dps while endure pain and berserker stance are active, hence why they have greater pressure, which pretty much everyone knows. Thief burst is still higher yes.

I just find it annoying that adrenal health out heals guardians traited virtue of resolve…. it’s so funny too because guardians got shafted with the low base health because they have all this “insane” healing…. That is such a crock of $*%&

Black Box.9312:

Atherakhia.4086:

Thieves have stealth. In any given fight you’re in stealth for much more than the 3 seconds a Warrior has endure pain up.

People seem to have this silly misconception that stealth renders you invulnerable to attack. I’ve killed plenty of thieves while they were in stealth; it’s really not that hard and it’s not really comparable to an invulnerability of any duration.

No one claimed they were invulnerable… only that stealth is the strongest mechanic in the game when it comes to avoiding damage.

Stx.4857:

You can’t claim thieves have higher sustain dps, and then also point out that they avoid damage by sitting in stealth(aka, massively lowering that dps) … Those PvE numbers you provided do not matter at all in PvP, because thieves cant just sit there and dps. Warriors can still dps while endure pain and berserker stance are active, hence why they have greater pressure, which pretty much everyone knows. Thief burst is still higher yes.

Try reading the full post next time.

jportell.2197:

I just find it annoying that adrenal health out heals guardians traited virtue of resolve…. it’s so funny too because guardians got shafted with the low base health because they have all this “insane” healing…. That is such a crock of $*%&

You got ‘shafted’ because of all the protection. You have very powerful burst healing because you don’t have the high health pool to allow regen to work. Guardian is built perfectly fine for bunkering.

Atherakhia.4086:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Atherakhia.4086:

Thief sustained is higher.

Bull. Thiefs are pretty low on the sustain once Hide in Shadows is used. They have to back off if their opponent isn’t low.

Thief avoidance is higher.

About even, actually. Thieves may have more Evades, but Warriors match that with (significantly longer) blocks and invulnerabilities.

We know that the Thief’s DPS is second highest in the game right behind an Ele. So yes, their sustained is much higher than a Warrior.

Thieves have stealth. In any given fight you’re in stealth for much more than the 3 seconds a Warrior has endure pain up.

Elementalists only have great DPS against giant targets that stand still, i.e PvE bosses.

Axialbloom.8109:

Atherakhia.4086:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Atherakhia.4086:

Thief sustained is higher.

Bull. Thiefs are pretty low on the sustain once Hide in Shadows is used. They have to back off if their opponent isn’t low.

Thief avoidance is higher.

About even, actually. Thieves may have more Evades, but Warriors match that with (significantly longer) blocks and invulnerabilities.

We know that the Thief’s DPS is second highest in the game right behind an Ele. So yes, their sustained is much higher than a Warrior.

Thieves have stealth. In any given fight you’re in stealth for much more than the 3 seconds a Warrior has endure pain up.

Elementalists only have great DPS against giant targets that stand still, i.e PvE bosses.

Thank you axial, I saw that comment and really wondered.

I would also point out what an Elementalist has to do to get that DPS:
Particular runes, sigils, a really wonky ineffective trait lineup and berserker’s (so the elementalist has 14k hp assuming 20 in water). Plus the big component, playing the keyboard like a concert pianist.

It is much easier for a warrior to out DPS almost every Elementalist since melee skills have 2 to 3 times the DPS as ranged (plus most competitive Elementalist builds require survivability first, even on a berserker build). I would put the next highest burst DPS class as the warrior and the highest sustained as the warrior.

Doesn’t a PvE Elementalist just stay in fire all day unless they’re running a hammer build? No pianist required… And for PvE, Warrior’s 4th place per guru I do believe?

It is much easier for a warrior to out DPS almost every Elementalist since melee skills have 2 to 3 times the DPS as ranged

Im sorry…what? Are you still in the beta?
Also, yeah there is still this misconception that warriors still do top DPS for some reason.
Please review warrior changes over the patches and see for yourself how many damage nerfs we took.

Not to say that elementalists and thieves didnt get their fair share of nerfs, ofcourse.
But the above quote is still wrong on so many levels

Really? Saying ele’s put out more damage than warriors?

On paper yes against a target dummy maybe. In WvW /pvp practice, we both know that’s bs. No one puts out any damage if they’re dead.

The warrior abilities, if they remain as they are need some sort of ICD. The elementalist ‘burning fire’ which removes 3 conditions automatically, is not only in a non defensive line, but also has an ICD of 40 seconds.

Cleansing ire is executable every 7 seconds.

As with alot of abilities the warriors ones seem to have no downsides. Yet both classes are effected equally by conditions.

In face eles more so as they only have 50 percent of the warriors hp to deal with them.

DuranArgith.1354:

It is much easier for a warrior to out DPS almost every Elementalist since melee skills have 2 to 3 times the DPS as ranged

Im sorry…what? Are you still in the beta?
Also, yeah there is still this misconception that warriors still do top DPS for some reason.
Please review warrior changes over the patches and see for yourself how many damage nerfs we took.

Not to say that elementalists and thieves didnt get their fair share of nerfs, ofcourse.
But the above quote is still wrong on so many levels

There is a massive difference between theoretical best DPS (where Warriors are nowhere close to the top, to be honest) and practical max DPS. In the later category, which is what really matters, Warriors are, in fact, on top because they don’t have to constantly back off to survive, unlike those professions that can out-damage them. Because of this, Warriors do, in practice, have the highest DPS in the game. The only thing that might out-do them is in PvE where a necro could land a massive Epidemic, but the stars have to align for a mob to have that many conditions and not already be dead.

You have those reversed… practical/real DPS of the Warrior can be measured and it’s middle of the road at best (with its highest DPS weapon no less). Theorized DPS where you assume a Warrior has more uptime in WvW than another class can’t be measured and is often dramatized and embellished.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

DuranArgith.1354:

It is much easier for a warrior to out DPS almost every Elementalist since melee skills have 2 to 3 times the DPS as ranged

Im sorry…what? Are you still in the beta?
Also, yeah there is still this misconception that warriors still do top DPS for some reason.
Please review warrior changes over the patches and see for yourself how many damage nerfs we took.

Not to say that elementalists and thieves didnt get their fair share of nerfs, ofcourse.
But the above quote is still wrong on so many levels

There is a massive difference between theoretical best DPS (where Warriors are nowhere close to the top, to be honest) and practical max DPS. In the later category, which is what really matters, Warriors are, in fact, on top because they don’t have to constantly back off to survive, unlike those professions that can out-damage them. Because of this, Warriors do, in practice, have the highest DPS in the game. The only thing that might out-do them is in PvE where a necro could land a massive Epidemic, but the stars have to align for a mob to have that many conditions and not already be dead.

Practical Max dps: Im assuming you mean how easy it is to deliver your damage payload. In that case: Power necros, fresh air eles, heartseeker spam thieves, guardian greatsword whirling wrath that does more dps in practice than our 100b.

Were still not on the top. Not for quite a while now.

Atherakhia.4086:

You have those reversed… practical/real DPS of the Warrior can be measured and it’s middle of the road at best (with its highest DPS weapon no less). Theorized DPS where you assume a Warrior has more uptime in WvW than another class can’t be measured and is often dramatized and embellished.

In WvW, I’d agree with you. PvP, where the fighting is on tiny points, that’s not the case. PvE, where enemies happily stand there for you, it’s DEFINITELY not the case.

In WvW, though, fights can end up covering a lot of ground.

Warriors need to go back to being very susceptible to condition damage.
I would focus on nerfing their ability to cleanse.
Warriors should do physical and eat condition.

Bombsaway.7198:

Warriors need to go back to being very susceptible to condition damage.
I would focus on nerfing their ability to cleanse.
Warriors should do physical and eat condition.

Then we need to do a hell of a lot more physical damage.

You know, since the condition meta is king, if we were the profession that conditions absolutely destroy, then our physical damage would have to be something to die for.

Atherakhia.4086:

Black Box.9312:

Atherakhia.4086:

Thieves have stealth. In any given fight you’re in stealth for much more than the 3 seconds a Warrior has endure pain up.

People seem to have this silly misconception that stealth renders you invulnerable to attack. I’ve killed plenty of thieves while they were in stealth; it’s really not that hard and it’s not really comparable to an invulnerability of any duration.

No one claimed they were invulnerable… only that stealth is the strongest mechanic in the game when it comes to avoiding damage.

No, it’s not. It’s not at all.

If you hit a thief with an aoe attack that deals X damage while the thief is not stealthed, and then you hit the thief with the same attack while it IS stealthed, you will still do X damage. Stealth does nothing to avoid damage.

If you were trying to argue for thief’s many built-in evades, then maybe you’d have a point. But stealth is not a damage avoidance mechanic at all; it’s simply a deception.

Black Box.9312:

stealth is not a damage avoidance mechanic at all; it’s simply a deception.

Wrong. You completely avoid all AI damage (pets, turrets, clones, NPC) and damage/harmful effects from skills with target requirements.

Sykper.6583:

Then we need to do a hell of a lot more physical damage.

You know, since the condition meta is king, if we were the profession that conditions absolutely destroy, then our physical damage would have to be something to die for.

Well how about you have to…i don’t know, bring abilities which cleanse conditions like say…everyone else!

Everyone is susceptible to condition damage but do no where near your damage.

You might even have to use a different healing ability to healing signet, one which clears 3 conditions, or have you used it so long you’ve forgotten what your other heals do?

This is the problem, warriors have become so used to having high hps, high armour, high damage, condition and cc resistance and mobility they’ve completely lost sight of how they compare to everyone else. So any alteration of their abilities to be more in line with everyone else resulst in ‘Well!! if you lower that, i want more of this!’

Sykper.6583:

Then we need to do a hell of a lot more physical damage.

You know, since the condition meta is king, if we were the profession that conditions absolutely destroy, then our physical damage would have to be something to die for.

This is the problem with most warriors, they demand to be better than EVERYONE else. Maybe, just maybe you could like everyone else take skills(s) to counter conditions….

I mean, you have the best mobility, the highest health, highest armor (at start), insane CC spamming ability, the best regen in the game and very good damage and yet you want MORE….

Everyone else has to sacrifice something to get something. What does Warrior sacrifice to get any of that? To get defence – i have to sacrifice damage and the other way around if i want damage i have to sacrifice defence.

I think it is about time that Anet fixed this with Warriors, they sacrifice nothing to have the best of everything.

phaeris.7604:

Well how about you have to…i don’t know, bring abilities which cleanse conditions like say…everyone else!

Prove it by yourself. Make warrior, don’t take HS and CI, go to tPvP and show us vids.

I think both warrior and guardian need either a hard nerf, or the other classes need a big boost. Certainly in the team-support department. The number of guardians and warriors in dungeons is ludicrous. That should be a big warning sign for the balancing team. It’s absurd that a class can bring that much support, and also have that much damage and defense, without having to trade much of anything in.

Rednik.3809:

phaeris.7604:

Well how about you have to…i don’t know, bring abilities which cleanse conditions like say…everyone else!

Prove it by yourself. Make warrior, don’t take HS and CI, go to tPvP and show us vids.

Warrior without CI is warrior dead.
This class become completely dependent of this trait to stand alive.
Anet need review this and several other things.
Actually most warriors are using hambow to be able fight AI and Stealth spam. Days ago a engineer sneered me because i can’t did anything with a certain sword/horn + bow build. they just spam all that AI, grenades, explosives and AoE conditions while just ignore my conditions and raw damage.

Now i run hambow, there are no way to stand in this meta with another thing.
The game is becoming a mess!

I mean, you have the best mobility (thieves), the highest health (tied with necro), highest armor (heavy class, tied with guardian)), insane CC spamming ability(thief, mesmer), the best regen in the game (ranger, guardian) and very good damage( around the middle of the list) and yet you want MORE….

Fixed it for you

What we have not: Boon spamming and boon hate, clones, stealth, non telegraphed skills, fields, access to protection, blind spam.

DuranArgith.1354:

I mean, you have the best mobility (thieves), the highest health (tied with necro), highest armor (heavy class, tied with guardian)), insane CC spamming ability(thief, mesmer), the best regen in the game (ranger, guardian) and very good damage( around the middle of the list) and yet you want MORE….

Fixed it for you
What we have not: Boon spamming and boon hate, clones, stealth, non telegraphed skills, fields, access to protection, blind spam.

Just carrying the Greatsword you can escape ANYONE
You compare the health with Necro – yet Necro have low armor and next to no defensive options. They have 6second protection every 60 seconds and a Class Mechanic that not only needs to have A LOT of traits to be any good but melts the moment it is focused AND has VERY little access to stability. You compare Armor, how much health does Guardian have again?

Lol did you just say Mesmer have insane CC? Yeah, if they take 2 Utilities with 30 second and 45 second cool downs, take Greatsword for another on 30second cool down and another on 45 second cool down. That 4 and it costs A LOT seeing as you are having to use 2/3 of your utilities. Warrior – 3 with 10second, 20second and 30 second cool downs and thats just from ONE weapon set (and Burst) you could also get another 3 from Utilities….

Sorry but Healing Signet is ONE slot item, requires NOTHING else. I have over 500 healing on my ele and my Regen would require FOUR stacks to be ONLY marginally better than a Passive Regen that requires it to be slotted and nothing more.

what other class has ALL of this…

You don’t need any of that when you have the joint highest health, joint highest armor (and only class to be top of both) blocks, immunities, insane regen, insane mobility and other things…

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

DuranArgith.1354:

I mean, you have the best mobility (thieves), the highest health (tied with necro), highest armor (heavy class, tied with guardian)), insane CC spamming ability(thief, mesmer), the best regen in the game (ranger, guardian) and very good damage( around the middle of the list) and yet you want MORE….

Fixed it for you
What we have not: Boon spamming and boon hate, clones, stealth, non telegraphed skills, fields, access to protection, blind spam.

Just carrying the Greatsword you can escape ANYONE
You compare the health with Necro – yet Necro have low armor and next to no defensive options. They have 6second protection every 60 seconds and a Class Mechanic that not only needs to have A LOT of traits to be any good but melts the moment it is focused AND has VERY little access to stability. You compare Armor, how much health does Guardian have again?

Lol did you just say Mesmer have insane CC? Yeah, if they take 2 Utilities with 30 second and 45 second cool downs, take Greatsword for another on 30second cool down and another on 45 second cool down. That 4 and it costs A LOT seeing as you are having to use 2/3 of your utilities. Warrior – 3 with 10second, 20second and 30 second cool downs and thats just from ONE weapon set (and Burst) you could also get another 3 from Utilities….

Sorry but Healing Signet is ONE slot item, requires NOTHING else. I have over 500 healing on my ele and my Regen would require FOUR stacks to be ONLY marginally better than a Passive Regen that requires it to be slotted and nothing more.

what other class has ALL of this…

You don’t need any of that when you have the joint highest health, joint highest armor (and only class to be top of both) blocks, immunities, insane regen, insane mobility and other things…

Actually you cant escape anyone but probably necros with greatsword alone.
You need to sacrifice both your weapons sets to get this mobility. Thieves can do it with longbow alone.

Ahem, you know mesmers can unload those abilities from 1200 range while we need to be at 130 (bar earthshaker). They can also do it from stealth or while hiding between their clones. They also have way too many ways to escape from our cc in case they hit.

Healing signet is all the sustain we have. Without it we would die way too easily.
If you want it taken away then propose another form of viable sustain for warriors.
PS: mending is a joke and healing surge isnt cutting it at 30s cd. (devs said they would lower the cds but they forgot.)

Now. We had all those things since the beta and the warrior was still considered a free kill for 9 months before cleansing ire and healing signet.
We even had at least double the damage, but we couldnt live long enough to do it.
Noone ofcourse complained about these things back then.

Now that we actually pose a threat, all the whiners want warriors to go back to being insignificant.

DuranArgith.1354:

Now that we actually pose a threat, all the whiners want warriors to go back to being insignificant.

Don’t you think warriors are a little bit too significant right now? How many people play warriors? A lot, right? They dominate all areas of the game.

Now contrast this to the other classes. Something is a little off there. And it’s not just the easy-to-play nature of the class.

DuranArgith.1354:

And yet, we had all those things since the beta and the warrior was still considered a free kill for 9 months before cleansing ire and healing signet.
We even had at least double the damage, but we couldnt live long enough to do it.
Noone ofcourse complained about these things back then.

Now that we actually pose a threat, all the whiners want warriors to go back to being insignificant.

Tip:

When another class gets a nerf and you dont, its basically a buff for you when fighting against them.

The ONLY people that think Warrior is “Balanced” is Warriors and the Devs.

what needs to be adjusted – read that ADJUSTED not nerfed into being useless but to be more balanced:

1) Healing Signet – the Passive “nerf” is simply not enough and you can bet that the buff to the active will be more than 8%. the “nerf” is a mere 38(ish) HpS that is really nothing.

2) Hammer – The CC spam on this weapon is out of control and the Conditions last for to long. A few tweaks to the cool downs, mostly of the Burst and this would be fixed

3) Mobility – A simple fix, make Rush and other skills work the same as Ride The Lightening. If you don’t hit a target a target, you get a double cool down. This is mostly for Rush

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

DuranArgith.1354:

Now that we actually pose a threat, all the whiners want warriors to go back to being insignificant.

Don’t you think warriors are a little bit too significant right now? How many people play warriors? A lot, right? They dominate all areas of the game.

Now contrast this to the other classes. Something is a little off there. And it’s not just the easy-to-play nature of the class.

No we dont. Like explained above in pve we arent the top damage dealers anymore.
in wvw mesmers and thieves make far better duelists and roamers.
In pvp hambow has already been harshly nerfed, we can make a great secondary bun ker but noone near guardians and engis. Our best build right now is conditions, and again engis and necros do that far better than us.

We are at least very viable, but not OP or UP.

Dont kid yourself.

1) Healing Signet – the Passive “nerf” is simply not enough and you can bet that the buff to the active will be more than 8%. the “nerf” is a mere 38(ish) HpS that is really nothing.
2) Hammer – The CC spam on this weapon is out of control and the Conditions last for to long. A few tweaks to the cool downs, mostly of the Burst and this would be fixed
3) Mobility – A simple fix, make Rush and other skills work the same as Ride The Lightening. If you don’t hit a target a target, you get a double cool down. This is mostly for Rush

1: see my previous post. Warriors have no other viable sustain. Before you nerf it, consider the side effects of that nerf to the class, At the very least propose another viable sustain for a predominantly melee class with no access to protection, blinds, evades.

2. Hammer was nerfed with a whopping 31% damage nerf. kitten people learn to dodge the obvious animations and bring stability.

3. Rush has been broken since the beta and its doesnt hit absolutely anything. We would like to use it for anything else but disengaging, but please look for some very funny youtube videos on how bad rush is. We would actually trade ir for RTL.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

3) Mobility – A simple fix, make Rush and other skills work the same as Ride The Lightening. If you don’t hit a target a target, you get a double cool down. This is mostly for Rush

Maybe if rush actually stood a chance of hitting anything.

DuranArgith.1354:

2. Hammer was nerfed with a whopping 31% damage nerf. kitten people learn to dodge the obvious animations and bring stability.

Necromancer here. What stability?

DuranArgith.1354:

1: see my previous post. Warriors have no other viable sustain. Before you nerf it, consider the side effects of that nerf to the class, At the very least propose another viable sustain for a predominantly melee class with no access to protection, blinds, evades.

2. Hammer was nerfed with a whopping 31% damage nerf. kitten people learn to dodge the obvious animations and bring stability.

3. Rush has been broken since the beta and its doesnt hit absolutely anything. We would like to use it for anything else but disengaging, but please look for some very funny youtube videos on how bad rush is. We would actually trade ir for RTL.

1. You and the devs are living in denial. Adrenal Health combined with Cleansing Ire and Dogged March provide more than enough healing and sustain to do the same as or more than Healing Signet. The problem is that the majority of you think you should have a Troll Ungent 24/7 with no gimmicks attached. Okay then, give Rangers no strings attached passive condition removal, Necros a constant supply of protection, etc. After all, Warriors already have a constant supply of regen with the signet.

2. Not every class has easy access to Stability. Rangers have to use Rampage As One, AN ELITE SKILL, to get Stability. Same with Thieves and Dagger Storm, Engineers and Elixir X, etc. Nobody has the level of Stability to survive the constant CC use outside of other Warriors and Guardians. And if they’re going to be that CC heavy, the damage on a hammer should be crap, I’m talking Ranger Greatsword power crap.

3. I actually agree with you on this, I’ve seen Rush fail numerous times on my warrior in PvE, and it wouldn’t bode well to have a change like that without first fixing the problem with Rush hitting things.

RyuDragnier.9476:

1. You and the devs are living in denial. Adrenal Health combined with Cleansing Ire and Dogged March provide more than enough healing and sustain to do the same as or more than Healing Signet.

Character selection screen→create warrior→HoTM→build without→tPvP→YouTube→link here.

Already have warrior set up, he’s level 80. I’ve done the math myself using fall damage in EotM. This is all without healing power outside of the traitlines.

Healing Signet by itself (nothing giving healing power, no traits): 392

Adrenal Health at level 1-2-3 adrenaline (only 15 points in Defense): 125 – 249 – 374
Adrenal Health at level 1-2-3 adrenaline (20 points in Defense): 127 – 254 – 381
Adrenal Health at level 1-2-3 adrenaline (25 points in Defense): 130 – 259 – 389
Adrenal Health at level 1-2-3 adrenaline (30 points in Defense): 132 – 264 – 396

Just those 2, since just from that alone you can see that Adrenal Health provides equal sustain to Healing Signet. Add in the extra regen from Dogged March’s activation, and you outheal Healing Signet easily. I’m rather surprised the devs didn’t bother doing numbers like this.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Healing Signet by itself (nothing giving healing power, no traits): 392

Adrenal Health at level 1-2-3 adrenaline (only 15 points in Defense): 125 – 249 – 374
Adrenal Health at level 1-2-3 adrenaline (20 points in Defense): 127 – 254 – 381
Adrenal Health at level 1-2-3 adrenaline (25 points in Defense): 130 – 259 – 389
Adrenal Health at level 1-2-3 adrenaline (30 points in Defense): 132 – 264 – 396

Healing Signet heals every second.
Adrenal Health triggers on an interval of 3 seconds.

Turamarth.3248:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Healing Signet by itself (nothing giving healing power, no traits): 392

Adrenal Health at level 1-2-3 adrenaline (only 15 points in Defense): 125 – 249 – 374
Adrenal Health at level 1-2-3 adrenaline (20 points in Defense): 127 – 254 – 381
Adrenal Health at level 1-2-3 adrenaline (25 points in Defense): 130 – 259 – 389
Adrenal Health at level 1-2-3 adrenaline (30 points in Defense): 132 – 264 – 396

Healing Signet heals every second.
Adrenal Health triggers on an interval of 3 seconds.

And we’ve proven that healing every second like that is ridiculously overpowered since the time between autoattacks and two separate skills going off is…around 1 second. Unless you’re running zerker or fighting somebody running it, you’re going to outheal everything done to you by a single opponent. That’s part of the problem with Healing Signet, no other class can get that level of healing that fast. I understand the need for constant healing…but every second? And without traiting for that level of healing?

DuranArgith.1354:

1: see my previous post. Warriors have no other viable sustain. Before you nerf it, consider the side effects of that nerf to the class, At the very least propose another viable sustain for a predominantly melee class with no access to protection, blinds, evades.

Beside having an area blind on longbow (smoldering arrow, 15s cooldown) and an evade on greatsword (10s cooldown) and several blocks (counterblow, riposte, shield stance). And those are just weapon skills.
Obviously that’s without counting the innate high hp and defense of the class. And the utilities like endure pain and berserker’s stance.
And it isn’t like warriors are the only class without direct access to protection, in any case.
Not that it matters much, though…it isn’t like they’re immune to it, and since quite any party ends up having a guardian, it will be applied anyway…and along with a sustain supposedly balanced about not having said buff.

Manuhell.2759:

DuranArgith.1354:

1: see my previous post. Warriors have no other viable sustain. Before you nerf it, consider the side effects of that nerf to the class, At the very least propose another viable sustain for a predominantly melee class with no access to protection, blinds, evades.

Beside having an area blind on longbow (smoldering arrow, 15s cooldown) and an evade on greatsword (10s cooldown) and several blocks (counterblow, riposte, shield stance). And those are just weapon skills.
Obviously that’s without counting the innate high hp and defense of the class. And the utilities like endure pain and berserker’s stance.
And it isn’t like warriors are the only class without direct access to protection, in any case.
Not that it matters much, though…it isn’t like they’re immune to it, and since quite any party ends up having a guardian, it will be applied anyway…and along with a sustain supposedly balanced about not having said buff.

1 blind skill on a single weapon does not equate access to blinds (i.e guardian)

Were sacrificing all our utilities for stances because healing signet cant quite cut it alone to survive. We sacrifice all our runes and food slot to also be able to limitate conditions and movement impairing as well. We also need 20 trait points allocated into defense before we even think of the next of the build.

And for god sake people adrenal health has an interval of 3 seconds and requires full adrenaline. At most, its 120hp/s.

Sigh. Im coming to the realization that people just do the threads vs warriors just to vent, without knowing anything about the class. Enough is enough. Let anet decide what to do, im done with this thread.

Manuhell.2759:

DuranArgith.1354:

1: see my previous post. Warriors have no other viable sustain. Before you nerf it, consider the side effects of that nerf to the class, At the very least propose another viable sustain for a predominantly melee class with no access to protection, blinds, evades.

Beside having an area blind on longbow (smoldering arrow, 15s cooldown) and an evade on greatsword (10s cooldown) and several blocks (counterblow, riposte, shield stance). And those are just weapon skills.
Obviously that’s without counting the innate high hp and defense of the class. And the utilities like endure pain and berserker’s stance.
And it isn’t like warriors are the only class without direct access to protection, in any case.
Not that it matters much, though…it isn’t like they’re immune to it, and since quite any party ends up having a guardian, it will be applied anyway…and along with a sustain supposedly balanced about not having said buff.

Longbow blind is the only blind we have.
Greatsword evade is the only weapon evade we have.
Counterblow is mace only block, Riposte is off-hand sword block and shield stance is promptly the only reliable block that won’t get terminated by a melee swing unlike the other two.

Unless you think every warrior runs five weapons, I don’t think you are making any valid points here…you are just making statements.

The innate high HP and toughness of the class helps deal with the fact we don’t have Protection at all. Utilities like Endure Pain and Berserker’s stance are almost a must to have, and take up precious utility slots that we could use for other utilities. It’s probably the only reason you are not seeing more warriors running Throw Bola or more Signets, because it is required to have some sort of mitigation when we possess nothing else.

As for not being the only class without protection, other said classes have a mechanic that can situationally make up for it. Stealth, actual invulns, impressive amounts of boons and mobility, another health bar, if a warrior’s only gimmick was that they had an extra 3-5k life, that is probably the weakest benefit for the warrior by far. If our only benefit was being a toughness/health based class, both things are completely outplayed by Conditions and High Crit Damage (The latter being addressed, the former not quite addressed at all)….

Then Warriors would be rolled back to when we were free bags. There was never a viable option for warriors back then, we were the worst profession to play in any circumstance.

Sykper.6583:

Longbow blind is the only blind we have.
Greatsword evade is the only weapon evade we have.
Counterblow is mace only block, Riposte is off-hand sword block and shield stance is promptly the only reliable block that won’t get terminated by a melee swing unlike the other two.

Unless you think every warrior runs five weapons, I don’t think you are making any valid points here…you are just making statements.

It still isn’t true there is no access to them. You have them, and even at relatively low cooldowns – there is just fewer of them (and as far as blocks go, it is second only to guardians).
Or do you expect warriors to have the same access of all those defensive mechanics despite having higher armour and hp to start with?

Sykper.6583:

The innate high HP and toughness of the class helps deal with the fact we don’t have Protection at all. Utilities like Endure Pain and Berserker’s stance are almost a must to have, and take up precious utility slots that we could use for other utilities. It’s probably the only reason you are not seeing more warriors running Throw Bola or more Signets, because it is required to have some sort of mitigation when we possess nothing else.
As for not being the only class without protection, other said classes have a mechanic that can situationally make up for it. Stealth, actual invulns, impressive amounts of boons and mobility, another health bar, if a warrior’s only gimmick was that they had an extra 3-5k life, that is probably the weakest benefit for the warrior by far.

Again with the “we don’t have protection” excuse. You aren’t alone, and those other classes must as well spend their “precious utility slots” for many of the mechanics you mention – especially actual invuln (and they can’t do anything while they’re activated, unlike endure pain/berserker’s stance).
Also, it isn’t like warriors are immune to protection when in party content. Saying it’s sustain is balanced upon not having it means admitting that it is unbalanced when that is taken into account. Not that it would be surprising, seeing the amounts of 1 guard/4 wars parties or variants of those.
And it isn’t like warriors haven’t got access to boons either – they’re just more offensive oriented, and usually area wide. Or straight out passive boosts, like banners.

If our only benefit was being a toughness/health based class, both things are completely outplayed by Conditions and High Crit Damage (The latter being addressed, the former not quite addressed at all)….

The former should be the class weakness by design, and yet cleansing ire provides much more removal than other classes could hope for. The latter…heh, as if getting bursted wasn’t a weakness for everyone…

Then Warriors would be rolled back to when we were free bags. There was never a viable option for warriors back then, we were the worst profession to play in any circumstance.

Sure, it isn’t like warriors are the most played class since the start of the game after all.
Oh, wait, they are.

Manuhell.2759:

- First Snip -

We have access to defensive conditions yes, but we don’t have any luxury of spamming them to the extent other professions have on a mechanical basis. There are a multitude of builds other professions have that can stack the kinds of conditions warriors have little access to, or even no access to at all.

I think Warriors are right on the mark in how much defensive conditions they can have, right now it is a matter of number balancing, and asking for pure sustain nerfs without offering other healing alternatives is a no go (The other healing skills are bad).

Manuhell.2759:

- Protections, banners, removal snip -

Poor argument, because if you establish that the warrior might not be alone than at the same time you or people who might be fighting said warrior might not be alone either. And how a warrior plays during a team setting is an entirely different discussion than the context of what you are asking which is pertaining to Warrior Weaknesses. I can just as easily say “Well a Guardian might not have a health pool UNLESS there is also a warrior with Defense banner nearby! We gotta nerf Guardian health pools because in a party scenario their weaknesses can easily be compensated for!”

Every profession has a synergy with their weapons and what capabilities a set accomplishes. Thieves CAN gain access to spammable blinding fields and perma-stealth for powerful engages or disengages, Mesmers CAN gain similar access but for a more sustained condition damage based combat. Warriors and their weapons are extremely physical, but do not have a variety of conditions to pull off as a whole. With that said, in order to compensate for a lack of utility with brute strength, we have utilities which can deal with the rampant utility of other professions and their potential. There is a ‘simpleness’ to these utilities, but it is because they are so simple that makes them balanced. Endure Pain is a perfect example, a fairly decent duration utility that can provide raw damage immunity for a short time. A means for the warrior without the use of stealth or pure immunity from all damage to deal with power burst. However it is suspectible to conditions still, and the animation and buff is an easy tell.

The boons a Warrior can apply to a group are not actually that many, outside of FGJ and Warhorn the only buffs a warrior can apply are banners, which have their own entirely different issues. Ultimately, Banners are specialized in PvE and some SPvP specs.

I want you to name the other methods a warrior can cure conditions without Cleansing Ire. No, let me do that for you:

- Berserker Stance is not condition removal but helps with the condition pressure once you know it is there.
- Shake it Off cures a single condition on yourself and nearby allies every 25 seconds. 20 if traited for.
- Signet of Stamina can activate to cure all conditions every 45 seconds, 36 if traited.
- Mending is three conditions every 20 seconds. …Wait its a healing skill? That heals for a terrible 5k? Absolutely ridiculous.

You know what’s missing from all of these? Sustained removal. Before Cleansing Ire Warriors had no sustained condition removal, every single warrior build, every warrior had a crippling flaw much to A-Net’s original motto where Warriors would be the class to have the most trouble with conditions. When conditions became more powerful, warriors became less viable as a whole, we became absolute trash. The image of warriors being weak to conditions made the profession the worst one ever in this game, there still is not a profession that was as bad as pre-buff Warrior, and I hope there never will be.

In a way, I agree that Cleansing Ire being the only removal we can do is a bad thing, if it were nerfed but another similar trait was made into a DPS tree like Strength or Arms to help alleviate condition pressure without the need to go 20 into defense, that would be superb!

Manuhell.2759:

Sure, it isn’t like warriors are the most played class since the start of the game after all.
Oh, wait, they are.

If you are indicating that profession’s popularity should directly impact how they should be balanced, then you are out of your mind.