Guild Wars 2

thaooo.5320:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Healing Signet = The BEST passive regen in the game no question.
Blocks = Shield
Immunities = Utilities
CC = Hammer
Condition Cleansing = Traits

Questionable, Altruistic Healing pulls crazy numbers, as well as Signet of Malice, which is capable of restoring thousands per second.

Every class is capable of combining all of those aspects into a single build, on top of their additional mechanics like perma vigor, perma regeneration, protection, evade, shadowstep, blind and stealth. That’s not a warrior exclusive combination.

Every class? Say hello to Necromancer – No blocks, No Immunities, no Vigor, no evade, no stealth, no leaps, very limited forms of CC

While it is not warrior exclusive not all classes have access to them all and even less have all that access combined with joint highest health, joint highest armor, BEST passive regen in the game…

Xae.7204:

The issue is the absurd sustainability.

What about the absurd sustainability from a Guardian protection and heals?

What about the absurd sustainability from Thief stealth (and traits) and perma regeneration/vigor? Let alone blinds and evasion skills.

What about the absurd sustainability of Necromancers regeneration/vampiric abilities and death shroud in 1v1’s?

What about the absurd sustainability of Engineer self water blasts, perma regeneration/protection and confusion to stop you hitting him?

What about the absurd sustainability from Mesmer perma vigor/shadowsteps/clone distraction/stealth/evasion and reflect skills?

What about the absurd sustainability from Condi bunker rangers, with perma regeneration/vigor, good protection uptime, and evasions?

^And any things I missed out in any of those^

It’s a matter of opinion on what you personally dislike versing, every class can sustain in its own way, and very well. The thing is, warrior never used to be able to, everyone could EXCEPT for the warrior.

For some reason a few select people feel the need to unfairly single out the warrior over and over again JUST BECAUSE they cannot or will not adapt to it.

There are plenty of issues with other classes that I think are ridiculously broken, but I don’t spam threads and closed minded one sided points about them, because its obviously a bigger game than just ‘that one ability’, I adjust my game and the way I play, and cope with those situations, I play better.

Anyway, ANet gave in to all the unjustified complaining and is reducing it. It solves the playing better issue.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

thaooo.5320:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Healing Signet = The BEST passive regen in the game no question.
Blocks = Shield
Immunities = Utilities
CC = Hammer
Condition Cleansing = Traits

Questionable, Altruistic Healing pulls crazy numbers, as well as Signet of Malice, which is capable of restoring thousands per second.

Every class is capable of combining all of those aspects into a single build, on top of their additional mechanics like perma vigor, perma regeneration, protection, evade, shadowstep, blind and stealth. That’s not a warrior exclusive combination.

Every class? Say hello to Necromancer – No blocks, No Immunities, no Vigor, no evade, no stealth, no leaps, very limited forms of CC

While it is not warrior exclusive not all classes have access to them all and even less have all that access combined with joint highest health, joint highest armor, BEST passive regen in the game…

Say hello to Necromancer – best aoe conditions in the game, Death Shroud (when traited correctly), same base health as Warrior, very small to no tells when casting Fear and Torment, he ability to corrupt stability.

A good Necromancer can beat a Hambow Warrior, but most waste their best skills while the Warrior has Zerker stance up. If you start to engage a hambow Warrior you should expect that stance to come out early and only use just enough of your skills to bait it out. When it’s done, use a fear to bait out Dolyak/Balanced, Corrupt it, chain fear and torment. It may not kill them outright, but from then on all you have to do is keep enough poison (Plague on to negate HS until you an do it again. However in a team fight that first combo will be enough if you focus. Foot in the Grave is also a good trait to have and I’ve been seeing it more.

If it’s a condi Warrior, well you’re a necro and can probably show them who’s boss.

I personally think that it’s too easy for warriors to get all those benefits.

You only need 1 healing skill and 20 trait points (!) to get this:

• High HP
• High toughness
• High sustain (with barely any healing power)
• Decent condition removal

After that you just pick the gear of your choice and you get this:

• Decent damage
• Lots of CC
• Combo finishers + field
• (Mobility)

In the end you pick your utility skills and use the last trait points and you get this:

• Several seconds of immunity
• Stability
• Stun breakers
• Lower weapon swap CD
• …

All those things are combined in 1, I repeat 1(!) build.

I remember when D/D eles were considered OP. Back then Anet said they don’t want a single build to offer all those things which is reasonable imo. Seems like they changed their mind…

Xae.7204:

thaooo.5320:

Xae.7204:

Warriors complaining about “sustain” is hilarious.

Apparently the highest health and highest armor values in the game isn’t enough. Warrior “sustain” is a massive EHP pool. Other classes get sustain that they have to trait into just to equal a warriors natural advantages.

Lets put Warriors in cloth and lowest HP pool for a while. They are so spoiled they don’t value what they have.

1) Necromancers have the highest health pool.

2) Continue ignoring all the other defensive mechanics in the game that warrior has none of (evasion, blind, stealth, shadowstep, protection, regeneration abundance)

3) Healing Signet is destroyed by burst. Stop playing bunker for once. HS is a sustained heal, not a burst heal, burst damage means the signet cannot keep up.

Facepalm. So very much facepalm.

Xae.7204:

Lets put Warriors in cloth and lowest HP pool for a while. They are so spoiled they don’t value what they have.

See point 2 above.

SO MUCH FACEPALM!

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Health#Base_health_by_profession

No, Warriors and Necros have equal health pools.

High HP: Warriors, Necro
Medium HP: Engineer, Ranger, Mesmer
Low HP: Thief, Elementalist, Guardian

Heavy Armor: Warrior, Guardian
Medium Armor: Engineer, Ranger, Thief
Light Armor: Elementalist, Mesmer, Necro

Notice a Pattern?
Value High/Heavy at 3, Medium at 2 and Low/Light at 1.

Elementalist: 2
Thief: 3
Mesmer: 3
Guardian: 4
Engineer: 4
Ranger: 4
Necro: 4
Warrior: 6

A guardian needs to Aegis or Regen 8K health just to equal a Warriors base HP pool.

If only you had included mechanics in your post as well.
You know – minor stuff like : protection, stealth, clones, death shroud – stuff like that. The stuff that doesn’t even matter.

/sarcasm.

Nice numbers you have there – i’m sure they’re the optimal way of looking at things.

what if…

Healling signet healls you periodically, but each tick heals you 50% less… increase active healling and the pasive should start a bit higher so it doesnt become meaningless too fast

Just gonna point out right now that warriors that support protecting healing signet constantly say something along the lines of “well roll a warrior and you’ll see they’re not OP”. Obviously people take that advice, otherwise there wouldn’t be so many freaking warriors all over the place with a good 90% of the running healing signet and the same 20 trait points in defense.

So here’s a challenge to you guys. Take your own advice and roll one of the underdog classes that has been begging for buffs for months. I recommend a non-spirit ranger or maybe a nice elementalist if you feel your up to stepping out of the passive play comfort zone. Then come back and compare how you think they measure up to warriors in their current state.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Say hello to Necromancer – best aoe conditions in the game, Death Shroud (when traited correctly), same base health as Warrior, very small to no tells when casting Fear and Torment, he ability to corrupt stability.

Right, first they have to spec for that, so no i don’t count AoE conditions but more so thanks to the fact they have been nerfed into the ground due to Anet being clueless and ignoring EVERY Necro when we said that Dhuumfire was a terrible idea.

Deathshroud? Anet don’t even know what they want it to be. Sure offensive it is great when traited defense? It is terrible. A 3 second block on Shield will negate MORE damage than a 20k Life Force Pool will…

Little tell for Torment? Other than the giant green lines going from the necro to the target, but yeah that is no tell and lets not forget that the damage is a joke for such a long cool down and the Immbo something you DONT want on a condition that is about them moving is easily to get out of range from. Everyone knows to expect Fear when the Necro goes into DeathShroud now if only there was a boon that would negate that….

You mean the skill that has been nerfed SO much it is now pretty useless Corrupt Boon hasnt been widely used by Necromancers for a while partly due to the fact that has been nerfed and partly due to the fact that it is quite easily dodged, Invul and everything else to.

thaooo.5320:

What about the absurd sustainability of Necromancers regeneration/vampiric abilities and death shroud in 1v1’s?

I like how you specify in 1Vs1 situations, what about zergs? what about out numbered? Oh yeah then DeathShroud is nothing but a meat bag. Now if only they had Invuls like Warrior, Blocks like warrior, insane regen like warrior

Also, they have ONE skill that siphons health on weapons do you know why no one takes the traits? because they are a JOKE. Trying to use Vampiric traits to say they are strong – you not played a Necro before have you? lol

korelg.7862:

what if…

Healling signet healls you periodically, but each tick heals you 50% less… increase active healling and the pasive should start a bit higher so it doesnt become meaningless too fast

Decrease the Passive by 25%, Increase the active by 50% and change it so that is every 2/3seconds that the Passive ticks and not every second.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

While it is not warrior exclusive not all classes have access to them all and even less have all that access combined with joint highest health, joint highest armor, BEST passive regen in the game…

^ You keep saying this bit. ^

V But you have never displayed any understanding of this bit. V

Aegis, up times of Vigor/Regeneration/Protection, Stealth, Evades, Blinds, Shadow Steps, Clones, Pets etc.

It is really frustrating how you cannot distinguish the roles the above^ play in supplementing health. They negate/nullify/prevent/sustain damage. All of the above increase a characters ‘effective hit points’.

It appears that you simply look at the number values of health and armour, without understanding that the above^ literally act in the same way. Having more of the above^ is literally like having more armour or health or healing etc.

Warriors do not have higher hp/armour than other classes because “ANet loves warriors ANet gives warriors everything.”. They have higher base hp and armour because they also lack those above mechanics which give other classes more effective hit points.

I literally don’t know how to out it more simply than this and I hope you finally understand the importance and usefulness of those mechanics that the warrior does not have in exchange for base hp/armour.

This is why people defend the outrageous claims to nerf healing signet.

Sadly ANet listened to the ill-informed complaints and we’re moving the game in the wrong direction.

thaooo.5320:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

While it is not warrior exclusive not all classes have access to them all and even less have all that access combined with joint highest health, joint highest armor, BEST passive regen in the game…

^ You keep saying this bit. ^

V But you have never displayed any understanding of this bit. V

Aegis, up times of Vigor/Regeneration/Protection, Stealth, Evades, Blinds, Shadow Steps, Clones, Pets etc.

It is really frustrating how you cannot distinguish the roles the above^ play in supplementing health. They negate/nullify/prevent/sustain damage. All of the above increase a characters ‘effective hit points’.

It appears that you simply look at the number values of health and armour, without understanding that the above^ literally act in the same way. Having more of the above^ is literally like having more armour or health or healing etc.

Warriors do not have higher hp/armour than other classes because “ANet loves warriors ANet gives warriors everything.”. They have higher base hp and armour because they also lack those above mechanics which give other classes more effective hit points.

I literally don’t know how to out it more simply than this and I hope you finally understand the importance and usefulness of those mechanics that the warrior does not have in exchange for base hp/armour.

This is why people defend the outrageous claims to nerf healing signet.

Sadly ANet listened to the ill-informed complaints and we’re moving the game in the wrong direction.

When will you understand – they don’t need any of that when they have so much access to everything i have said. It is like you want them to be MORE overpowered.

Coldtart.4785:

Perhaps the heal interval should be lengthened so it heals every 3 seconds instead to accentuate the weakness to burst in return for the large heal rate.

that is actually a good idea. 420~ish HP every 3 seconds makes it just about 140hp/s. Adding in passive healing from traits and you’re at around 360hp/s on average. Which is not bad at all, certainly better then most professions.

Thief passive is tied up in stealth. Ranger passive is tied up in 1 trait and 1 utility slot. Everyone else got to rely on regeneration or healing through attacks.

thaooo.5320:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Healing Signet = The BEST passive regen in the game no question.
Blocks = Shield
Immunities = Utilities
CC = Hammer
Condition Cleansing = Traits

Questionable, Altruistic Healing pulls crazy numbers, as well as Signet of Malice, which is capable of restoring thousands per second.

Every class is capable of combining all of those aspects into a single build, on top of their additional mechanics like perma vigor, perma regeneration, protection, evade, shadowstep, blind and stealth. That’s not a warrior exclusive combination.

Other classes don’t get to do that while having 400HPS and 30K+ EHP and doing solid damage.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

When will you understand – they don’t need any of that when they have so much access to everything i have said. It is like you want them to be MORE overpowered.

What are you talking about? I literally never said I want warriors to have those things.

Warriors are in a good place right now, other classes need to be worked on.

That’s another frustrating thing, you add your own meanings and words that aren’t there in the things people say.

And again you said ‘warriors have access to everything’, but they DON’T. I literally just pointed that out, again, for the 555555th time.

I’ve tried explaining it to you, you refuse to try to understand, so you and I are done.

Xae.7204:

Other classes don’t get to do that while having 400HPS and 30K+ EHP and doing solid damage.

Yep, instead they do it while having perma stealth, perma vigor/regeneration up times, protection (-33% DAMAGE), clones, shadow steps, evasion skills, aegis and blinds.

If you will kindly read above, I have detailed for the 5555555th time how these mechanics work, and that they count as health/armour, called effective hit point.

If you refuse to expand your knowledge of the game and its basic formulas and mechanics, we are done here.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Why-Healing-Signet-is-superior-to-other-heals/page/3#post3554316

Xae.7204:

thaooo.5320:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Healing Signet = The BEST passive regen in the game no question.
Blocks = Shield
Immunities = Utilities
CC = Hammer
Condition Cleansing = Traits

Questionable, Altruistic Healing pulls crazy numbers, as well as Signet of Malice, which is capable of restoring thousands per second.

Every class is capable of combining all of those aspects into a single build, on top of their additional mechanics like perma vigor, perma regeneration, protection, evade, shadowstep, blind and stealth. That’s not a warrior exclusive combination.

Other classes don’t get to do that while having 400HPS and 30K+ EHP and doing solid damage.

Yet they have other tools like blinks, stealth, protection, aegis…you know, those things Warrior’s don’t have access to?

I have looked at your posts and you seem to be under the distinct impression that every single warrior runs a shield, or every single warrior runs a hammer. If you want to list every single benefit and potential a warrior has with every single build, then we also have to address every single benefit and tool the other professions have that complement themselves as well.

Warriors right now have to run the traits and utilities you described just to survive the current meta right now, and considering the duration and cooldown of these capabilities there is plenty of time to find an opening in a warrior’s defenses. And every warrior build has weaknesses, and actually every warrior build has the same weakness since they have to run healing signet! Imagine that.

Right let us compare the “best” and “worst” percieved profession in game.

Ranger passive regen;
Perma regeneration: 310hp/s
Traits: 125hp/3s
Signet: 170hp/s
Elite spirit: 320hp/s
Total: 841.6hp/s

Maximum burst damage:
Conditions: 1900 hp/s (19 stacks of bleeding, burning, poison)
Direct damage: 600
Pet damage (cats): 1800

Warrior:
Healing signet: 425hp/s
Traits: 240hp/s (i went for the middle one, as you easily get 2 bars of adrenaline fast)

Total: 625 hp/s

Maximum Burst damage:
Conditions: 1400hp/s (bleed, burn)
Direct damage: 4500

Now, the ranger has to completely bunker down to get that healing, it has to waste a utility slot, traits and their elite. Yet at that cost, the damage, even with the pet, we barely do 60% of what a warrior can do.
Now everyone assume rangers suck, but then again everyone knows how much of a pain in the kitten it is to fight BM Bunkers. So in the end, one of the best ranger builds, compared to the best choice for warriors, and that is the difference. Not to mention the warrior will easily have 12k more HP and 1k more armor.

Prysin.8542:

- Snip -

Stopping you right there. We have already addressed the points given about ‘comparing straight up healing’ and that same point is dismissed when you have to compare mechanics and capabilities like Protection, Traits, Utilities, Skills, etc.

Although Rangers themselves need a lot of love at this time, it is utterly unfair and wrong to compare sustains when the two professions are distinctively different.

Sykper.6583:

Prysin.8542:

- Snip -

Stopping you right there. We have already addressed the points given about ‘comparing straight up healing’ and that same point is dismissed when you have to compare mechanics and capabilities like Protection, Traits, Utilities, Skills, etc.

Although Rangers themselves need a lot of love at this time, it is utterly unfair and wrong to compare sustains when the two professions are distinctively different.

true as i got a metric ton of evades, and just as much invulnerability as a warrior if i want to.
Not to mention, pets are awesome at mitigating damage either by being in your way, or healing me.

Sykper.6583:

Prysin.8542:

- Snip -

Stopping you right there. We have already addressed the points given about ‘comparing straight up healing’ and that same point is dismissed when you have to compare mechanics and capabilities like Protection, Traits, Utilities, Skills, etc.

Although Rangers themselves need a lot of love at this time, it is utterly unfair and wrong to compare sustains when the two professions are distinctively different.

Not to mention his math is laughably inaccurate and frankly made up. Just look at the sum for ranger regen, and warrior direct damage number. What a hoot.

thaooo.5320:

Xae.7204:

Other classes don’t get to do that while having 400HPS and 30K+ EHP and doing solid damage.

Yep, instead they do it while having perma stealth, perma vigor/regeneration up times, protection (-33% DAMAGE), clones, shadow steps, evasion skills, aegis and blinds.

If you will kindly read above, I have detailed for the 5555555th time how these mechanics work, and that they count as health/armour, called effective hit point.

If you refuse to expand your knowledge of the game and its basic formulas and mechanics, we are done here.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Why-Healing-Signet-is-superior-to-other-heals/page/3#post3554316

What class has Permanent Stealth, Regen, Protection, teleports, evasion, Aegis and Blind? You seem to be fighting a TheifMesmerNecroGuardianRanger with a 30/30/30/30/30 spec.

I guess subconsciously that is what you think should be required to beat a Warrior.

A truly frightening look into the psyche of your average Warrior troll.

As this topic has run it’s course, it is now closed.