Guild Wars 2

I’d ease off a bit. Winning over and over when people are there primarily for the achievement gets a bit annoying. I won properly, but I can’t tell you how many times I was forced to leave games because one guy mastered it when I simply don’t have the time, or when guildmates kept ganging up on people. The 3rd race I ever did (first where I started at the same time as everyone else), I was in first until the very end in which an enemy caught up to me, hit me with lightning, and then his fellow guildmates kept bashing me until I ended up 7th.

However, the game does have a cheat to it. The 10 skill, forgot the name, is like an instantly first place skill. I won one race simply because I got that skill twice and just had to ease through the race.

There’s nothing to say they couldn’t make other powerups affect people behind you. Some of the “AOE” attacks affect all the racers.

Gust/Gale by the way actually can be pretty powerful because it’s stronger version has an immediate knockdown, and that will affect someone lightning jumping too. Best of all, it’s completely unpredictable, as it just hits immediately without warning.

FYI: The LightSpeed/Checkpoint ability is a defensive/buff powerup, so I don’t really count it in this.

Is it bad to use mesmer’s portal to reach the end of JPs? You have to earn the chest.
Is it bad to help players in trouble ? You have to pay the cost of repairs and teleportation unless you are a skilled player (every mob you kill counts as a daily kill or slayer or weapon master achievement).
Examples may continue.
Last time I checked, GW2 still was a rpg, unfortunately increasingly less with each patch, you can play the good guy or the bad guy without being held responsible, no matter who you are in real life.

just for more discussion, for those that believe “it’s an achievement. you didn’t do it on your own, you didn’t earn it”, are all achievements only perceived to be individualistic? if the community is friendly enough to allow other players to get the achievement, isn’t that something we can be proud of for the community / server / game as a whole? so say, someone got their Sanctum Sprinter title because a jolly good fellar let them past at the finish line, then maybe whenever they sport it, they’ll be reminded of the community that he is a part of and be grateful for it. allowing peolpe to acknowledge that not everything’s about winning others, but rather, sometimes it’s more than okay to bask in the glory as a whole.

on the other hand, i know i can’t argue between first and second, especially in the form of a race.. but they did complete the race and was pretty darn close if they’re able to get first based on the fact that just one person stopped in their footsteps. it’s not like all 11 people didn’t even bother racing and let one person take the blue ribbon.

just thinking out loud : ))

Genavelle.9516:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Coldin.2840:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Traps are, just like in Mario Kart and similiar games, only useful for extending your lead. And yes, there are brutally mean places to put them. But that is the game and how it is played.

Remember that you still can see the false power-ups and you can activate your Grounded skill to avoid getting affected by them. Which you should. And it is easy to tell the false ones. They’re the ones that are in odd places.

Yes and no?

Getting a fake powerup in Mario Kart is a bit more rare, since there’s shells and other things to get as well. In the Sprint, 1-3 place all get fake powerups. Fake powerups in Mario Kart aren’t usually as bad either, since they can rarely be placed where the player has to repeat large sections of the race.

They can be seen, but it can be difficult when moving quickly across the race. And in some places they can’t be avoided at all before you’re right on top of them (Lighting Jumps). Or if someone puts it right next to you while racing, since they become active immediately. Grounded is the best way to deal with them in my experience, but you do have to keep going out of your way to pick that up. And it’s possible to use up one grounded on a bomb, and then find another bomb before you get another.

They’re just a little too strong to give to the 1st place player every single powerup. Remove the knockdown, replace it with an immobilize, and remove the powerup removal. And then mix in some blinds for the 1st – 3rd places to pick up.

The problem is that the other ‘attack’ skills only affect those in front of you. They are 100% useless when you’re in first. So then do you give the person in front nothing?

As for fake powerup visibility? I do agree that there isn’t a whole lot you can do if they put one down on a lightning jump landing area. Other than that, though, you can always see them before you would hit them. Just gotta remember to use Grounded.

And tbh hitting a fake powerup on a lightning pad is about the same as getting hit by lightning storm while doing the lightning jumps…Basically you’re screwed either way, unless you’ve got Grounded on. And as you said, fake powerups are all someone in 1st or 2nd place really has.

I think the worst thing about fake power ups is losing all of your own power ups. That can be a very harsh penalty for people who like to use power use for the right moment (especially aspect masters for strong jumps in certain places). And I think you mean gale. Lightning storm has an animation showing you’re about to be hit, so if you see it just wait to jump.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Katz.5143:

What I hate are the traps placed in areas that are guaranteed to knock you off and set you back, sometimes a lot. I don’t use the traps against other players. I know they are in the game by design but personally I see them as the cheap way to win. When I run a race and there are few or no traps, I enjoy the race no matter where I place. When I run a race and there is trap after trap set to knock you off a platform, I want to slap someone and I feel very hostile towards the rest of the players. I don’t say anything but it reminds me of the competitive jerks that hit people in the throat with their elbow when the ref isn’t looking.

Traps are, just like in Mario Kart and similiar games, only useful for extending your lead. And yes, there are brutally mean places to put them. But that is the game and how it is played.

Remember that you still can see the false power-ups and you can activate your Grounded skill to avoid getting affected by them. Which you should. And it is easy to tell the false ones. They’re the ones that are in odd places.

It’s difficult to see them when you are using the lightning jump. And I’ve gone through races where they have been on consecutive lightning jumps. I know they are meant to be there and used, obviously, that’s why the developers put them in the game. Some players will feel this is strategic playing. That’s ok. I feel that it is saying, I’m slow, I can’t win by just going through the race, therefore, I’ll just win by having you thrown off a platform. We have different points of view. I see it as winning the “lazy” way.

Probably its because I like to compete against myself. Do better. Do better again. Make that jump faster, make that turn quicker, etc. I don’t care how the other players do, I’m not competing against them, I’m competing against how I did last time. I’m not going to put traps down for the other players. To me that is telling myself, well, guess you CAN’T do better.

I finally got first yesterday. I was pretty sure I had someone in front of me, but still ended up winning. If someone did step aside, then I’m grateful. I kept playing to get my 25 races done and me and another guy were getting 1st and 2nd consistently. Someone suggested everyone take turns and decide who gets first next and I said no. He called me a kitten and told everyone to aim their stuff at me, though I don’t know if you can.
I’ll step aside if you can keep up as second, but against not having to try and just have the win given to you.

Katz.5143:

It’s difficult to see them when you are using the lightning jump. And I’ve gone through races where they have been on consecutive lightning jumps. I know they are meant to be there and used, obviously, that’s why the developers put them in the game. Some players will feel this is strategic playing. That’s ok. I feel that it is saying, I’m slow, I can’t win by just going through the race, therefore, I’ll just win by having you thrown off a platform. We have different points of view. I see it as winning the “lazy” way.

Probably its because I like to compete against myself. Do better. Do better again. Make that jump faster, make that turn quicker, etc. I don’t care how the other players do, I’m not competing against them, I’m competing against how I did last time. I’m not going to put traps down for the other players. To me that is telling myself, well, guess you CAN’T do better.

The multi lightning jump phases have alternate routes that are a little slower. But not slower than getting knocked off. I have won my share and I regularly skip around the lightning jumps if I’m not in first. Looking ahead and seeing that unavoidable strangely placed powerup on the lightning jumps and instead going down the secondary path can save you a lot of headache. And honestly if you time your Light Dash right and pop your Aspect Master you can make it faster than the lightning jumpers.

As for not using your own offensive skills, well you are gimping yourself. It’s literally like playing Mario cart and not getting or using any power-up at all. They are apart of the game and you are fighting your opponents for first as much as you are racing for first. In both you must not only be a good racer, but also a good battler to win. Being one or the other isn’t enough in this type of game. There aren’t enough mechanics in a game like this to not have them. We don’t have wind speed and drag coefficients tire wear, cornering ability acceleration versus top speed mechanics like non combat racing games have. Because of that and because we are all the same without the extra skills the race would be very boring for anyone who was moderately good at it.

For example I was running games last night with some people and 4 of us were consistently the top 4. We would be neck and neck the whole way and likely tie every time or at least have the smallest margin of difference in our times if it weren’t for strategic skill use. It’s because you cant make a turn any faster or slower there is no gas or break skills there is not “turning” in that sense. the skill in these games comes not only from being able to get to the end in the ideal time. That’s the easy part. The difficult part is knowing when to let someone overtake you to eat a fake, or to hit them with a gale. It’s watching the progress of the leaders to pop that lightning at just the right time or when in the lead setting fakes in unavoidable places, along with natural hazards, or in unseen locations hidden by the geography.

Sorry to say you cant really win (without the lucky Light Travel) without using your skills to their fullest extent. You aren’t racing yourself you are racing 11 other people. Without the powerups everyone that can make all the jumps will cross the line together nearly the same time, every time

Katz.5143:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Katz.5143:

What I hate are the traps placed in areas that are guaranteed to knock you off and set you back, sometimes a lot. I don’t use the traps against other players. I know they are in the game by design but personally I see them as the cheap way to win. When I run a race and there are few or no traps, I enjoy the race no matter where I place. When I run a race and there is trap after trap set to knock you off a platform, I want to slap someone and I feel very hostile towards the rest of the players. I don’t say anything but it reminds me of the competitive jerks that hit people in the throat with their elbow when the ref isn’t looking.

Traps are, just like in Mario Kart and similiar games, only useful for extending your lead. And yes, there are brutally mean places to put them. But that is the game and how it is played.

Remember that you still can see the false power-ups and you can activate your Grounded skill to avoid getting affected by them. Which you should. And it is easy to tell the false ones. They’re the ones that are in odd places.

It’s difficult to see them when you are using the lightning jump. And I’ve gone through races where they have been on consecutive lightning jumps. I know they are meant to be there and used, obviously, that’s why the developers put them in the game. Some players will feel this is strategic playing. That’s ok. I feel that it is saying, I’m slow, I can’t win by just going through the race, therefore, I’ll just win by having you thrown off a platform. We have different points of view. I see it as winning the “lazy” way.

Probably its because I like to compete against myself. Do better. Do better again. Make that jump faster, make that turn quicker, etc. I don’t care how the other players do, I’m not competing against them, I’m competing against how I did last time. I’m not going to put traps down for the other players. To me that is telling myself, well, guess you CAN’T do better.

My only problem with it is that falling off the track is way too punishing.

Falling to the ground takes forever if you’re lucky enough to not get stuck in scenery and then have to purposely jump down so you can finally respawn, then you’re set like a million meters back AND are rooted for like 2-3 seconds.

I think just falling down is enough punishment.

And that’s coming from someone who got the 1st place achievement, it’s just not fair.

Gabby.3205:

naboac.5876:

Razor.9872:

An achievement is an achievement for a reason…
If you can’t do it, you shouldn’t earn it.

I agree here, you can´t call it a achievment if you just earn it for free.

It is at the same time amazing and sad that there are people that still think that everybody that can’t get the achievement simply can’t for lack of skill.
Please refer to this post.

Hmm, I disagree. It’s not very amazing, or sad, it’s just simply logical. You must understand what an achievement is, first, before you can come to terms with it being limited to the playerbase.

And achievement is, by definition:

(1) A thing done successfully, typically by effort, courage, or skill.
(2) The process or fact of achieving something.

The purpose of an achievement is to separate the community on a personal level, through ability — note: ability does not always mean skill. While I understand that there are many who will not be able to earn achievements due to unfair reasons (ie. Lag, dissabilities, etc…) the matter still stands that an achievement is an achievement. Believe me, I am not simply shouting from a sideline here; I am also one of these people. Due to my ISP, I suffer from disconnects every 20-40 minutes. Not to mention my occasional lag spikes, and my phone’s unfailing ability to ring during my most dire moments. There are some special achievements I was unable to acquire — and I accept that.

If someone is willing to riposte with a counter claim, I’ll be waiting, and willing, to further my point.

Razor.9872:

If someone is willing to riposte with a counter claim, I’ll be waiting, and willing, to further my point.

With that statement noone will as it is obvious that your mind is made up and nothing will come of the conversation.

Razor.9872:

Gabby.3205:

naboac.5876:

Razor.9872:

An achievement is an achievement for a reason…
If you can’t do it, you shouldn’t earn it.

I agree here, you can´t call it a achievment if you just earn it for free.

It is at the same time amazing and sad that there are people that still think that everybody that can’t get the achievement simply can’t for lack of skill.
Please refer to this post.

Hmm, I disagree. It’s not very amazing, or sad, it’s just simply logical. You must understand what an achievement is, first, before you can come to terms with it being limited to the playerbase.

And achievement is, by definition:

(1) A thing done successfully, typically by effort, courage, or skill.
(2) The process or fact of achieving something.

The purpose of an achievement is to separate the community on a personal level, through ability — note: ability does not always mean skill. While I understand that there are many who will not be able to earn achievements due to unfair reasons (ie. Lag, dissabilities, etc…) the matter still stands that an achievement is an achievement. Believe me, I am not simply shouting from a sideline here; I am also one of these people. Due to my ISP, I suffer from disconnects every 20-40 minutes. Not to mention my occasional lag spikes, and my phone’s unfailing ability to ring during my most dire moments. There are some special achievements I was unable to acquire — and I accept that.

If someone is willing to riposte with a counter claim, I’ll be waiting, and willing, to further my point.

Achievements * usually * are ploys to help extended the life of a game by replay value and/or challenges. However, atleast GW2 made achievement points meaningful and in general they just help you see the game itself so they have more * real * value. Killing a billion zombies in X game for 2 hours straight isn’t special. Do it if you enjoy it but otherwise waste of time.

Also the achievements mostly in this game are easy, they are more or less go do this and that rather then try to do this super hard thing. The Captain 15 min kill was a more actual skillful achievement and even 15 mins is a bit meh, should of been 10 if they were aiming for something hard.

Thereforth, the achievements mostly in this game are go do X thing and not so much a skill based or effort thing.

Meriem.3504:

Achievements * usually * are ploys to help extended the life of a game by replay value and/or challenges. However, atleast GW2 made achievement points meaningful and in general they just help you see the game itself so they have more * real * value. Killing a billion zombies in X game for 2 hours straight isn’t special. Do it if you enjoy it but otherwise waste of time.

Also the achievements mostly in this game are easy, they are more or less go do this and that rather then try to do this super hard thing. The Captain 15 min kill was a more actual skillful achievement and even 15 mins is a bit meh, should of been 10 if they were aiming for something hard.

Thereforth, the achievements mostly in this game are go do X thing and not so much a skill based or effort thing.

Even if an achievement is simpl to go do thing X Y times, you’re still going to need to put in the effort to actually do thing X, Y times.

Well most achievements are simply a grind to get, but sanctum sprinter actually required you to perform well.. until people decided to start handing it out to everyone who begged for it ofcourse.

Lue.6538:

Even if an achievement is simpl to go do thing X Y times, you’re still going to need to put in the effort to actually do thing X, Y times.

Well most achievements are simply a grind to get, but sanctum sprinter actually required you to perform well.. until people decided to start handing it out to everyone who begged for it ofcourse.

You assume we did it because people begged.

Is it bad that now I kinda want to keep doing it just to annoy those that think that it should remain exclusive to them?

1st place is for those who got that place by working for it. A title without working for it? No Way.

Airwolf.7382:

1st place is for those who got that place by working for it. A title without working for it? No Way.

*sigh*

People are still working for it! Everyone else isn’t just standing there and letting them get it at no effort. Most aren’t, anyways.

And those that the entire groups agree to do that? They are still working to get everyone to do that, so it is still work.

Do you like it? By your response, no. But did they earn it by working, in one form or another? I believe the answer to that is yes.

Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it isn’t still perfectly valid.

I know someone who has done 10% of the jumping puzzles in the game on his own. the rest he got by my help with mesmer portals.

On his 25th sanctum sprint he got first place. He worked hard and it payed off. He got the title and he deserves it.

Getting the title by begging your way through makes the title worth less in my opinion.

Airwolf.7382:

I know someone who has done 10% of the jumping puzzles in the game on his own. the rest he got by my help with mesmer portals.

On his 25th sanctum sprint he got first place. He worked hard and it payed off. He got the title and he deserves it.

Getting the title by begging your way through makes the title worth less in my opinion.

I’ve seen few beg. Most of this thread is people willingly, and unasked for, stepping aside and letting others get the win. Not a thread full of people begging to be allowed to win.

The real problem in my opinion are the amount and AOE of the fake power ups. Basically if you get to the first fake first they are so close together that you can spam them non-stop because in first you get them constantly. I have been in the lead many times and gotten them. By just spamming them non-stop I don’t even have to try hard to go fast. I’ve stopped short of the finish line in 1st place many times after spamming them and been ahead by about 30 seconds. So if a person doesn’t get to that first fake then it is much much more difficult and much much easier for the person in 1st.

There are ways to deal with it like keeping a ‘ground’ skill on hand if you get one at the right time and don’t have to use it to protect from lightning. You can jump them as well, but if they are placed in certain spots that can’t be done either. So many times the first couple of dashes make or break the race. For someone with lag it must be extremely frustrating. As someone that has been up front in many races I don’t really see it as a challenge once I get to the fake power ups and spam them. Now I either don’t use them or I wait at the end for someone else to finish because winning really isn’t difficult once you learn the track and start spamming fake power ups.

If they cut back on the number of them and maybe reduced the AOE a bit I bet many people that often finish first would struggle a bit more.

My way in this is staying away from the sanctum sprint. because the only thing I’ll be doing is trying to beat my own time XD.

Anyway. Good luck to those who are still going for it. Keep on trying, you’ll get there.

SynfulChaot.3169:

You assume we did it because people begged.

Is it bad that now I kinda want to keep doing it just to annoy those that think that it should remain exclusive to them?

I know people are begging for the title so thats not an assumption.

By all means, keep doing it, lets nurture the entitlements.

I got the achievement when someone let me win. I did not ask, and was quite surprised by it. Since this is a limited time event, trying to get the achievements can be stressful, so I was very happy. A few races later I arrived at the finish line first on my own, but waited to let someone else finish first.

If you want to wait and let others finish first, chances are you will make some people very happy, especially those who have a lot of lag or are just not as good at these types of activities. I would never expect it of anyone though, and anyone who expects to be handed anything is going to end up with a lot of disappointment.

Eh… its a limited time event where the achievement points now actually lead to real, tangible rewards. I dont feel right blocking it off for players that likely have bad ping or something.

That said, I did finish in first twice in a row once and at the third race, I was smacked with no less than 15 lightning bolts.

I laughed the entire time. Still finished 7th!

Lue.6538:

SynfulChaot.3169:

You assume we did it because people begged.

Is it bad that now I kinda want to keep doing it just to annoy those that think that it should remain exclusive to them?

I know people are begging for the title so thats not an assumption.

By all means, keep doing it, lets nurture the entitlements.

Logical fail there. Just because some people are begging and we are helping others win does not necessitate a logical link between the two. I help others because I want to. No other reason.

And it seems you need to learn a thing or two about entitlement as well. You’re not entitled to us acting as you wish.

I always make sure to sit at the finish line, and let 3 other people go by, but that’s just me. I don’t think anyone should be forced to, and I also don’t believe that people should expect it. I just do it simply because I want to. I took 1st place the 6th time I tried the race. So I have to do the race 19 more times for the achievement. I only started sitting at the finish line when I noticed I was coming in 1st quite frequently, and the award you get for 4th place, isn’t that much different then 1st place. I seem to be pretty exceptional at this mini game, which is a shocker, because I’ve struggled with all the other ones. I guess because I struggled with crab toss for so long, is the main reason I sit at the finish line.

Lets break it down to pieces for fun then.

Logical fail there. Just because some people are begging and we are helping others win does not necessitate a logical link between the two. I help others because I want to. No other reason.

I never claimed there was any correlation between the 2, I have however seen the following:
1. People begging for first place.
2. People advocating letting said beggars have 1st.

The actual purpose as to why you do it personally? I couldn’t care less.

SynfulChaot.3169:

And it seems you need to learn a thing or two about entitlement as well. You’re not entitled to us acting as you wish.

Ah so it all boils down to a misrepresentation of my argument then, a logical fallacy that is oh so common. Now the first thing you need to understand is that being opposed to your view on this subject doesn’t mean I expect myself to recieve any benefits for holding that view, thats basically what entitlement is: The expectations that you will hold special benefits or privileges. Now I haven’t exactly stated any expectations that would dictate that I even begin to expect you to ‘act as I wish’.

I am ofcourse strongly opposed to this whole win-trading lark that you’re doing, but that you mistook that for entitlement shows that it is not me who should ‘learn a thing or two’ about it, but you.

Its amazing how the obvious is ignored time and time again. Once and for all, to those people that state: people that want the title should work for it and if they cant get it its only because they lack the skills to do so; here is the simplified fact for you certain players have overwhelming advantages over others and assume your so much better than those trying, but suffer from this simple fact. That fact is there is no even playing field! That’s right simple as that, you want an even playing field where you can take the high and mighty stance to be so much better; simple way to do this is drop your connection to match those far from the servers and with bad connection. That way you will be forced into same situations they are:
1) horrible lag, you will get 9/10 skills lag for 3-5 seconds before working most wont work at all sometimes
2) random rubber banding back to a cp or off a cliff multiple times a rance
3) no chance to avoid any attacks because you don’t see them till your already hit

The advantage differs from person to person so don’t assume someone isn’t trying. Knowing this I chose to help others knowing its not a fair race but a game, you have no obligation to do the same nor does anyone have the right to call you names for your choice. This people are not trying and need to “earn” their reward is a flawed way of thinking simply because no matter the skill of a player, situations beyond their control will make them place low because some run flawless connection. To make an analogy its like running a obstacle race with your opponent blindfolded, do you consider this equal grounds or fair? Not all people have connection issues and some just want the free win, but those that legitimately have handicaps should not be lumped together with those wanting the easy way. Treat your fellow players with respect this means those winning and those losing, thanks to those that help, as I am sure many people appreciate this kind gesture for helping them with situations beyond their control.

I don’t really gain anything from 1st place so I had no problem with letting others have a better shot at it after I got the Achievement. In that situation I’m basically helping others in a way that doesn’t hinder me at all since I don’t lose anything. That’s why people will find others spamming 1st selfish because they get no bonus or anything for it. I also got the back piece from chest from low place.
So to answer the OPs question from a moral standpoint; Yes, it’s bad. This isn’t an opinion it’s just how the game is by design, unintended or not. You can do whatever you want though, your choice.

Lue.6538:

SynfulChaot.3169:

And it seems you need to learn a thing or two about entitlement as well. You’re not entitled to us acting as you wish.

Ah so it all boils down to a misrepresentation of my argument then, a logical fallacy that is oh so common. Now the first thing you need to understand is that being opposed to your view on this subject doesn’t mean I expect myself to recieve any benefits for holding that view, thats basically what entitlement is: The expectations that you will hold special benefits or privileges. Now I haven’t exactly stated any expectations that would dictate that I even begin to expect you to ‘act as I wish’.

I am ofcourse strongly opposed to this whole win-trading lark that you’re doing, but that you mistook that for entitlement shows that it is not me who should ‘learn a thing or two’ about it, but you.

I don’t expect anything of other players. Not even common decency. Anonymity does that to people.

I don’t feel entitled to anything as I dislike the very concept of entitlement. Not sure how you think me helping others by my own free will makes me entitled, but you’re free to believe whatever nonsense makes you feel better about your position.

SynfulChaot.3169:

I don’t expect anything of other players. Not even common decency. Anonymity does that to people.

I don’t feel entitled to anything as I dislike the very concept of entitlement. Not sure how you think me helping others by my own free will makes me entitled, but you’re free to believe whatever nonsense makes you feel better about your position.

Since you completely missunderstood what I meant when I said that it was you and not me who needed to learn about entitlement, I’ll rephrase it.

You accused me of believeing I was entitled to having my way, something I never claimed and said that I thus did not grasp the concept, in return you missused the word entitlement as I had not shown nor claimed to actually be entitled. This in turn lead to me responding with that it was not me but rather you who were wrongfully using the term entitlement.

So did I actually say you were feeling entitled to anything? Nope, not at all.
What I did say however was that you used the term faulty when you accused me of said entitlement.

And I’m glad you dislike entitlement, pity you’re further fueling the flames of it tho.

Lue.6538:

SynfulChaot.3169:

I don’t expect anything of other players. Not even common decency. Anonymity does that to people.

I don’t feel entitled to anything as I dislike the very concept of entitlement. Not sure how you think me helping others by my own free will makes me entitled, but you’re free to believe whatever nonsense makes you feel better about your position.

Since you completely missunderstood what I meant when I said that it was you and not me who needed to learn about entitlement, I’ll rephrase it.

You accused me of believeing I was entitled to having my way, something I never claimed and said that I thus did not grasp the concept, in return you missused the word entitlement as I had not shown nor claimed to actually be entitled. This in turn lead to me responding with that it was not me but rather you who were wrongfully using the term entitlement.

So did I actually say you were feeling entitled to anything? Nope, not at all.
What I did say however was that you used the term faulty when you accused me of said entitlement.

And I’m glad you dislike entitlement, pity you’re further fueling the flames of it tho.

I help others. That is no more ‘fueling the flames of entitlement’ than anything else. If you think that all must be selfish individuals and never deign to help others to prevent feelings of entitlement then I think you’ve missed both the point and any chance of human decency. I help others to be a good person and because I feel it’s the right action. Not because others expect me to.

Some people will feel entitled either way. My actions do not affect their entitlement. They either do or don’t feel entitled. All I do is race to the line then allow others the win. Nothing more or less. I will not change my actions because of others. I know that I’m doing the right thing.

Now you expecting a different action out of me is entitlement. You think that I should act differently. Now if it is just an idle wish, then it’s not. But you phrased it a bit more directly than that, thus I was forced to assume you were acting entitled.

SynfulChaot.3169:

I help others. That is no more ‘fueling the flames of entitlement’ than anything else. If you think that all must be selfish individuals and never deign to help others to prevent feelings of entitlement then I think you’ve missed both the point and any chance of human decency. I help others to be a good person and because I feel it’s the right action. Not because others expect me to.

More logical fallacies, but hey, keep em coming.
There is “helping” people and then theres actually helping people, giving someone a free win isn’t going to accomplish anything but to bring up an expectation that the same may occur further down the line, when said expectation goes unfullfilled you may just end up looking like you feel entitled to having aforementioned expectation.
If you were actually interested in helping someone, why not give them some tips on how to win instead?

SynfulChaot.3169:

Some people will feel entitled either way. My actions do not affect their entitlement. They either do or don’t feel entitled. All I do is race to the line then allow others the win. Nothing more or less. I will not change my actions because of others. I know that I’m doing the right thing.

Ofcourse, some people will always feel entitled, most of your actions most certainly does not have an impact on that at all, however this particular one? Maybe, but seeing as it is all speculation tho we might aswell drop that.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Now you expecting a different action out of me is entitlement. You think that I should act differently. Now if it is just an idle wish, then it’s not. But you phrased it a bit more directly than that, thus I was forced to assume you were acting entitled.

See this is the fun part, I’m not expecting you or anyone else to stop anything as long as it isn’t against the EULA.

I’ll quote you on this then:

Assume innocence until proven otherwise.

Or did that only apply to those who got handed wins for free?

Oh and lets stop calling those who doesn’t hand out wins selfish shall we?

Lue.6538:

SynfulChaot.3169:

I help others. That is no more ‘fueling the flames of entitlement’ than anything else. If you think that all must be selfish individuals and never deign to help others to prevent feelings of entitlement then I think you’ve missed both the point and any chance of human decency. I help others to be a good person and because I feel it’s the right action. Not because others expect me to.

More logical fallacies, but hey, keep em coming.
There is “helping” people and then theres actually helping people, giving someone a free win isn’t going to accomplish anything but to bring up an expectation that the same may occur further down the line, when said expectation goes unfullfilled you may just end up looking like you feel entitled to having aforementioned expectation.
If you were actually interested in helping someone, why not give them some tips on how to win instead?

I help others. I don’t create expectations directly. If they expect anything further then that is a logical fault on their end. Not on mine. So don’t try to pin other’s actions on myself, m’kay?

And don’t assume that I don’t also give tips. I do. But I also know that I would prevent many/most from having a chance to win were I do race at full effort. Especially when all I care about is the reward given to any finisher.

Lue.6538:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Some people will feel entitled either way. My actions do not affect their entitlement. They either do or don’t feel entitled. All I do is race to the line then allow others the win. Nothing more or less. I will not change my actions because of others. I know that I’m doing the right thing.

Ofcourse, some people will always feel entitled, most of your actions most certainly does not have an impact on that at all, however this particular one? Maybe, but seeing as it is all speculation tho we might aswell drop that.

Fair ’nuff.

Lue.6538:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Now you expecting a different action out of me is entitlement. You think that I should act differently. Now if it is just an idle wish, then it’s not. But you phrased it a bit more directly than that, thus I was forced to assume you were acting entitled.

See this is the fun part, I’m not expecting you or anyone else to stop anything as long as it isn’t against the EULA.

I’ll quote you on this then:

Assume innocence until proven otherwise.

Or did that only apply to those who got handed wins for free?

Oh and lets stop calling those who doesn’t hand out wins selfish shall we?

I’ve not really called those players selfish. They got the the line first and it’s their choice as far as what to do. I’ve actually called players out for demanding those that finish first to throw their race.

The only one that gets to make that decision is the one that arrives there first. And it should only be thrown if that is what they want. Not if it is only what others want them to do.

It depends. I don’t really like just giving away firsts, but I really don’t want to actively try hard to prevent others from getting first just because I can. 1st place once is for the achievement. 1st place any other time is just for bragging rights.

If you’ve gotten first and know you’re better than the competition, it’d be nice to bow out once in a while. But even if you don’t, try not being a jerk and placing fake power ups at every single choke point. The only exception I make is placing them at the wind crystal shortcut at the very end. Because anyone trying to use that shortcut deserves to be punished.

SynfulChaot.3169:

I help others. I don’t create expectations directly. If they expect anything further then that is a logical fault on their end. Not on mine. So don’t try to pin other’s actions on myself, m’kay?

I’m not pinning anyones expectations nor behavior on you, I am however confident that win-trading like this definitly can be seen as a promoter for entitlement.

SynfulChaot.3169:

And don’t assume that I don’t also give tips. I do. But I also know that I would prevent many/most from having a chance to win were I do race at full effort. Especially when all I care about is the reward given to any finisher.

There was no assumption made regarding wether you give tips or not, the only thing I did was point out that while you claim the win-gifting is helping people, I feel that tips would be more beneficial.

So take the longer routes, put limitations on yourself and still try to win, atleast you’re not giving it away for free then.

SynfulChaot.3169:

I’ve not really called those players selfish. They got the the line first and it’s their choice as far as what to do. I’ve actually called players out for demanding those that finish first to throw their race.

The only one that gets to make that decision is the one that arrives there first. And it should only be thrown if that is what they want. Not if it is only what others want them to do.

You’re correct and it was sloppy by me to put it the way I did as it wasn’t targeted at you but rather at a bunch of other individuals, sorry for that.

Yes, but this might end up becoming a “thing” in the future, whenever theres a event that offers you a reward for fulfilling objective X in a competitive enviroment, it may just become the norm of the community that people are expected to pass up on their winnings in an attempt to advance the less fortunate ones.

Lue.6538:

I’m not pinning anyones expectations nor behavior on you, I am however confident that win-trading like this definitly can be seen as a promoter for entitlement.

Eh. People who are prone to feelings of entitlement will do that regardless. I won’t let their bad judgement keep me from acting kindly towards others.

Lue.6538:

SynfulChaot.3169:

And don’t assume that I don’t also give tips. I do. But I also know that I would prevent many/most from having a chance to win were I do race at full effort. Especially when all I care about is the reward given to any finisher.

There was no assumption made regarding wether you give tips or not, the only thing I did was point out that while you claim the win-gifting is helping people, I feel that tips would be more beneficial.

So take the longer routes, put limitations on yourself and still try to win, atleast you’re not giving it away for free then.

Already do. Still get there first. I don’t want to win. I just want to finish. So I wait. And I will keep doing that.

Lue.6538:

Yes, but this might end up becoming a “thing” in the future, whenever theres a event that offers you a reward for fulfilling objective X in a competitive enviroment, it may just become the norm of the community that people are expected to pass up on their winnings in an attempt to advance the less fortunate ones.

Some feel that it is expected. I don’t. If someone passes on a win that is that single individual granting that. It should never be expected. If you receive it, that’s nice. If you don’t, well … that’s how the game is played.

It’s a gift, not a privilege or a right. So long as people all remember that, then all is good.

After I got the first place achievement I almost always wait at the finish line and am glad to see others with the title doing the same. This allows those who haven’t mastered the race like we have to compete amongst themselves for 1st. I mean really, you wouldn’t put someone from a high school track team up against Usain Bolt. Waiting at the finish line works to level the playing field a bit.

Here’s another way to look at it that might put it into perspective:

Let’s say that typical first place comes in at I dunno 3min into the race. Not sure what the real time is I’ve never looked from when I get 1st. Let’s say 3min is a strong finish, good sprinter, gets every shortcut, this guy is almost always in first.

Let’s say there is another person who is playing in the same group and constantly is getting second. He’s coming in at let’s say 3min 3secs. So close to first each time but that one guy is good, no one is debating that. Just can’t seem to edge the guy out.

Starwipe transition to a different Sanctum Sprint group. A mix of hodgepodge runners, maybe one guy that is decent. First place in this group seems to come in at 4min-4min15secs. And this group is a kind group that rotates wins. Not a requirement but a nice thing they are doing.

Is it honestly fair to say that the person who keeps coming in 2nd from the first group hasn’t earned a 1st place? On face value obviously this would be true because he did in fact come in 2nd. But why did he come in 2nd? Was it because he is bad at the game? His average time would put him at 1st in almost every other matchup, so no. So why does he constantly come in 2nd? Because there is a person who is slightly better that comes in 1st every time!

“Ok, so what! That’s how the game works! It’s an achievement you have to earn it!”

But really, really think about it. This person and others could have already completed the achievement in any other normal circumstance if it weren’t for one person deciding that they aren’t worthy yet.

“You have to defeat ME in order to get the achievement muahahahahahahaha!”

If you take a step back, at least in my opinion, that person who keeps getting in first technically isn’t doing anything wrong, but man what massive tool. Anyone would agree with that.

I have no problem finishing first. With some groups I can get it every time without even struggling. With other groups I have to fight for a top 3 spot. My last group had me finishing first every time and the second person coming in a full 2 minutes after me.

I guess that my biggest complaint is how much of an advantage the first player has over the rest of the racers. Races tend to be decided by the first waterfall. If I can hit that first waterfall with nobody near me, I will win every time. I will go out of my way to grab every bomb and use them at strategic choke points. Even with Grounding, you won’t miss all of them and with everyone else firing off debuffs, the people behind me just keep getting farther and farther back.

The race is fun as heck but it’s not very balanced.

There was a day that me and one other person were racing for the first place, every single round. It was me or him who won. So after ~5 rounds or so, we decided to wait infront of the finish (who first arrives there wins) and let 3 other players get in the top 3. It worked well, even tho they didn’t really deserve it, hehe.

To me if I get to the finish line first even though I don’t cross it I know I got first and that’s fine for me. I was with a group today where myself and another person kept getting first and I tried to organize a race between he and I where we were not allowed to use dash. I wanted to do this to give the others some space for their achievement. He said he was never going to let anyone get first and something like “muuhhaahhaa”. I got out infront and towards the end before the shortcut, which he always took, I stood there with my fake waiting. He came around the corner and I dropped it right in his face. Another player passed us. He logged out of the race without finishing. LOL

It’s just a fun, kind of goofy event and there is no reason to get super competitive as if there is something to prove.. The level of skill it takes to get first is not much once you learn the track and the angles it takes to get to the first waterfall before anyone else. A little luck is involved as well. Other than that, if you get out in front to the first fake spam it, slow the pace a little to make sure you don’t fall, keep using fakes. Sure the ground skill can counter it but the person in front always gets fakes and the grounds, while they fall often are not 100%. Use one to counter lightning and your going to eat a fake a few seconds later. If you are winning a few races in a row against the same people just bow out and switch to a different race where you might find some actual competition.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Razor.9872:

If someone is willing to riposte with a counter claim, I’ll be waiting, and willing, to further my point.

With that statement noone will as it is obvious that your mind is made up and nothing will come of the conversation.

Is that what I implied? My apologies; my intention was to extend my hope for meaningful debate, rather than mindless opinion blurting. While I am firm in my opinion, I am not unswayable. As of now, I feel I have found some middle ground…

As this threat has evolved, It seems we have partially strayed from the original post. As the thread’s creator stated:

Kexin.5946:

As I was participating in these events for the achievement, someone said to us “Plz winner leave no winner x2 leave plz stop winner x2 stupid noob fsxk i need acheivnmtnz” or something along those lines.

His/Her reasons for creating this thread were (1) to gather a general consensus of the public, and (2) because one or more players were possibly spamming chat with [see above quote]. This topic is so controversial because, in the end, it doesn’t necessarily boil down to what is right or wrong, but what is eachother’s own opinion. In the present context, I mean to say: if you see someone ‘begging’ in chat for you to stop or slow down, you have absolutely no obligation to. That’s not to say you can’t — you can. if you feel obligated to, then by all means do it — but ignoring them and going on your way is in no right an evil thing to do.

I will admit, I still believe letting the incapable “get the easy way out” degrades the value of the achievement, because there is no way to tell if one ‘actually’ earned it, or not. But, for now, the prestige for doing so isn’t very outstanding.

Due to how terribly unstable the mechanics are if you are an Oceanic player or have high latency, many times those who still need the achievement are not lacking due to their own skill level. They can’t do anything about it.

It is selfish to take 1st every time. It is polite to wait at the finish line, though you are not obliged to do so.

Anyone who feels that “winning is the ONLY thing that matters”——-and that others should “let me win so I can get the achievement”————should stop whining and look at the many other ways of reaching the end goal. I needed (2) achievements to reach 16———-one of which was going to be transmuting crystal shards———the other had to come from sprinting. While a win would be nice, I could get the SAME achievement by finishing 3rd, using all seven “uniques”, or FINISHING 25 races———so there ARE choices—-some harder (or more time consuming) than others. (And, yeah—-cuz I’m a stup, it took me 23 races to use all 7 uniques!!)

Antisceptic.9174:

It is selfish to take 1st every time.

No, it isn’t.
It is a competitive PvP enviroment, there is nothing selfish about striving to win it, it is unfortunate that oceanic players are lagging but it is not up to everyone else to take that into consideration when racing.
The mere fact that you think it is selfish just portrays exactly why it is bad to stop and let someone else win.

Draknar.5748:

Is it honestly fair to say that the person who keeps coming in 2nd from the first group hasn’t earned a 1st place? On face value obviously this would be true because he did in fact come in 2nd. But why did he come in 2nd? Was it because he is bad at the game? His average time would put him at 1st in almost every other matchup, so no. So why does he constantly come in 2nd? Because there is a person who is slightly better that comes in 1st every time!

“Ok, so what! That’s how the game works! It’s an achievement you have to earn it!”

But really, really think about it. This person and others could have already completed the achievement in any other normal circumstance if it weren’t for one person deciding that they aren’t worthy yet.

“You have to defeat ME in order to get the achievement muahahahahahahaha!”

If you take a step back, at least in my opinion, that person who keeps getting in first technically isn’t doing anything wrong, but man what massive tool. Anyone would agree with that.

What I’m about to tell you is a supersecret, infact it is so secret that not even NSA knows about it.

If you leave the race and rejoin it, you’ll end up in a new instance, this will effectively get you out of the situation you described, and expecting to have first handed to you, now theres a tool for you.

Lue.6538:

Antisceptic.9174:

It is selfish to take 1st every time.

No, it isn’t.
It is a competitive PvP enviroment, there is nothing selfish about striving to win it, it is unfortunate that oceanic players are lagging but it is not up to everyone else to take that into consideration when racing.
The mere fact that you think it is selfish just portrays exactly why it is bad to stop and let someone else win.

Technically coming in first every time is selfish. Yes, it is supposed to be competitive. Yes, it is PvP. But by strict dictionary definition, wanting to win each and every time in a solo competition is selfish.

That isn’t necessarily a bad thing. That is the point of competition for many. But that doesn’t change the meaning of the word.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Lue.6538:

Antisceptic.9174:

It is selfish to take 1st every time.

No, it isn’t.
It is a competitive PvP enviroment, there is nothing selfish about striving to win it, it is unfortunate that oceanic players are lagging but it is not up to everyone else to take that into consideration when racing.
The mere fact that you think it is selfish just portrays exactly why it is bad to stop and let someone else win.

Technically coming in first every time is selfish. Yes, it is supposed to be competitive. Yes, it is PvP. But by strict dictionary definition, wanting to win each and every time in a solo competition is selfish.

That isn’t necessarily a bad thing. That is the point of competition for many. But that doesn’t change the meaning of the word.

I don’t think people ‘want’ to win each and every time, so much as they ‘try’ to win. There’s a difference; one is for “greed” (for lack of a better word), the other, challenge.

You don’t really gain much by being first all the time, if you keep getting first continuously, giving someone else a chance at first place would brighten up their day. Maybe you can just try coming in first every other race. Here is me and another player giving third place a chance for their title since we already had it. I remember that third player being so happy after coming in first, which put us in a good mood too with how gratefully she was thanked us

Razor.9872:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Technically coming in first every time is selfish. Yes, it is supposed to be competitive. Yes, it is PvP. But by strict dictionary definition, wanting to win each and every time in a solo competition is selfish.

That isn’t necessarily a bad thing. That is the point of competition for many. But that doesn’t change the meaning of the word.

I don’t think people ‘want’ to win each and every time, so much as they ‘try’ to win. There’s a difference; one is for greed (for lack of a better word), the other, challenge.

By definition itself, the act is still selfish. That is simply the nature of competition. It is neither inherently good nor inherently bad.

Not saying this is what everyone should do, mind you, but if you were strictly trying for challenge, getting there first but not taking the win should suffice for the challenge.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Razor.9872:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Technically coming in first every time is selfish. Yes, it is supposed to be competitive. Yes, it is PvP. But by strict dictionary definition, wanting to win each and every time in a solo competition is selfish.

That isn’t necessarily a bad thing. That is the point of competition for many. But that doesn’t change the meaning of the word.

I don’t think people ‘want’ to win each and every time, so much as they ‘try’ to win. There’s a difference; one is for greed (for lack of a better word), the other, challenge.

By definition itself, the act is still selfish. That is simply the nature of competition. It is neither inherently good nor inherently bad.

Not saying this is what everyone should do, mind you, but if you were strictly trying for challenge, getting there first but not taking the win should suffice for the challenge.

I’m not so sure. To be selfish, one would have to be “Lacking consideration for others” as the definition states. Personally, when I’m in first, I’m not lacking consideration; I’m always considering the success of those around me. The difference being: I don’t act on that (always).