Guild Wars 2

Apotheosis.3786:

I just left SWoTR for this. I don’t like syfy at all, and this game is starting to feel very syfy

Technically, Star Wars isn’t even sci-fi. Space Opera, Science Fantasy, but there really isn’t any attempt at science in Star Wars.

And Syfy is the cable channel.

One thing to bear in mind if you’re feeling dissapointed at the lack of story development and/or overall story is that this is just the first release dealing with this story.

Remember when Flame & Frost first came out and people complained that the story was entirely about helping refugees in some minor ways with absolutely no background to it or real explanation of what was going on. Then more of the story was released and all of that was filled in.

This will probably be the same. If we had already found out who wins the seat on the Captains Council, or how the trade agreement(s) worked out then I’d agree it’s disappointing, but as that hasn’t happened I feel like it’d be a bit like reading the first chapter or two of a book and complaining that it’s a bad story because they haven’t killed the bad guy yet.

Gibson.4036:

Apotheosis.3786:

I just left SWoTR for this. I don’t like syfy at all, and this game is starting to feel very syfy

Technically, Star Wars isn’t even sci-fi. Space Opera, Science Fantasy, but there really isn’t any attempt at science in Star Wars.

And Syfy is the cable channel.

Honestly its all the same to me. I don’t like the “Sci-Fi” genre at all. Fake science is nonsensical. Science and fiction are more or less antonyms. I’ve never seen the 2 put together where it doesn’t make me cringe.

One other thing to point out…

What part of the personal story do most people report to be most engaging?

Fighting through hordes of undead in a land saturated in evil juju on the way to fighting a mountain-sized lizard shaped force of nature?

Or the relatively smaller story in the first thirty levels involving things like a competition to win a prize for your Krewe’s invention or uncover the manichinations of a corrupt politician?

I think it’s telling that people, by and large, feel engaged for those smaller stories then lose interest when the personal story tries to turn epic. And as much as I dislike Trahearne like everyone else, it’s not just his fault.

Someone earlier in the thread said it’s easier for writers to make an engaging sword and sorcery story than political intrigue. I’m not so sure that’s true. You can keep making the monsters bigger and the particle effects flashier, but at some point the audience just responds with “ho-hum” if there’s no story there. I’d say it’s easier to find a couple of engaging character who each want something badly, and to cross-purposes with each other than it is to make a terrifying monster and flashy fireworks we haven’t already seen many times before.

IMO, the biggest hurdle for the MMORPG in creating an engaging story is that, by nature, they go against the structure of great stories. In an video game you have a series of challenges to overcome and you move on to the next one by gaining victory over the last.

In a good novel, the story is often advanced by the protagonist failing to overcome the challenges, and when she does get victory she ends up in a worse spot than before. She escapes the current threat, but then realizes she’s taken two steps back for the one she took forward. This builds the intensity to a meaningful climax where she gets her final victory.

Apotheosis.3786:

Honestly its all the same to me. I don’t like the “Sci-Fi” genre at all. Fake science is nonsensical. Science and fiction are more or less antonyms. I’ve never seen the 2 put together where it doesn’t make me cringe.

I understand.

Fake science (science fantasy) is a lot more common than real science fiction, expecially in movies/tv. Star Wars is a lot more Lord of the Rings than sci-fi which takes the real science of the time it’s written and extrapolates into the future.

Just an observation, but it seems to me Anet is leaning a lot more toward Edgar Rice Burroughs than J.R.R. Tolkien (or George R.R. Martin). Particularly his Mars books. Sky Pirates? Flying ships? This stuff has been around since 1912.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barsoom

I would love to see an MMO with Barsoom (or Amtor, or Pellucidar) as the setting, and I’d very much like to play a 15’ tall green warrior with four arms who could quad-wield swords.

Personally, I hope we get to stick it to Evon Gnashblade (?), the BLTP guy. Call it a “fantasy” to get back at the “guy” responsible for so much RNG on “his” trading post.

Also, I like the diversity of story lines. Now, if ANet can manage to do a few things with their story-telling, like reduce the feeling of being on rails (at least try to give us the sense that our choices matter), and make the story resolutions make more sense.

The OP is right. This isn’t fantasy at all!

I see floating Air ships in the sky all the time! I can’t go to the beaches anymore since they’re infested with giant mutated crabs from all the pollution in the water, also let’s not forget the current issue in Norway right now where tons of people are being fled from their homes by giant Norwegian cat people in hazmat suits with flamethrowers torching homes. Apparently they’ve teamed up with some crazy underground Russian coalition.

I want real fantasy I want people riding dragons and talking gibberish all day long. No magic though, because that’s not fantasy enough either. We all know that Harry Potter is based off a true story and well we were all taught in History about the real life journey of Frodo Baggins…

Apotheosis.3786:

Gibson.4036:

Apotheosis.3786:

I just left SWoTR for this. I don’t like syfy at all, and this game is starting to feel very syfy

Technically, Star Wars isn’t even sci-fi. Space Opera, Science Fantasy, but there really isn’t any attempt at science in Star Wars.

And Syfy is the cable channel.

Honestly its all the same to me. I don’t like the “Sci-Fi” genre at all. Fake science is nonsensical. Science and fiction are more or less antonyms. I’ve never seen the 2 put together where it doesn’t make me cringe.

Science Fiction means, things that could possibly be made real with technology, but are not at this time a thing available to people. Like androids, flying cars and regular affordable space travel. Star Wars is Science Fiction because it has those elements and is in another galaxy entirely.

Fantasy means, things that are wonderous, magical and nonsensical, where anything beyond the scope normal occurance can only be attributed to magic in some way. Typically they take place in areas of primitive technology. Star Wars is also Fantasy, though, because a lot of the story revolves around swords and sorcery.

Steampunk means, things that are technologically advanced at least to the level we are, but sometimes even beyond the level we are, but in a world that should not be so advanced, and using low tech analog power sources and resources to opperate their technology. (this is for later references sources)

Guild Wars is Fantasy with few very specific exceptions. Everything wonderous and super human is attributed to magic. The most technically advanced race is entirely reliant on magic as a force to perpetuate thier technology. The extent of the Sci-Fi elements in Guild Wars revolve entirely around the Dredge and Charr who are more Steampunk than Sci-Fi, but the Dredge do have powered suits.

I think the biggest problem for me is I have NO IDEA WHO’S THE VILLIAN! Idiosyncratic characters are great in movies where my attention is fully devoted to understanding them but this game is not doing a good job of that.

Who am I striving to defeat?

Why? Really… Why am I doing these jumping puzzles, defeating random vets and champions that pop up on the map and or racing? I feel like the living story team and the designers need to be talking more so they can create activities that actually feel like they have purpose and show us how they have purpose (because who the hell actually reads the 3 paragraphs of text that we are given by the npc).

The game is really underutilizing the features it has to tell an effective story.

Despite all these arguments about what IS and IS NOT fantasy, the bottom line is that ANet is likely limited in scope and resources as to what they can put out in these content patches so as not to conflict with the overall main story arch that they have and will be presenting.

All of these content “patches” are different….some are combat oriented, some have strong story-lines and some are just designed to provide some content filler. Anyone has the right to complain about how they don’t like this one or that one, but EVERYONE should keep in mind that they are FREE and none of them are required to actually complete the original game that you paid for.

Ceallach.8740:

Personally, I don’t like overblown “fantasy” so I’m quite happy with it and this game in general.

One of my favourite books is Dune, so I feel like, yes, it’s possible to have politics AND beating people senseless in only your underwear.

Lord of the Rings also contained some pretty “political” stuff, it was just fairly hidden. I like that, too, when a story has multiple “layers” – but I don’t really expect that from a video game whose nature is basically a serial. They try, but the aspiration is to something like “LOST”, not a story that was planned over years and revised as a whole.

And, yeah, like someone else said – this is really not in-depth politics at all. It’s like a high-school election – and I think it will be actually pretty cool if we’re able to do something to influence the outcome.

I mean, I guess I don’t really care because I’m not playing this game to hear an amazing story. So far, I think it’s serviceable, but I’m not expecting something that makes me stay up all night reading and makes me go, “whoa dudes you gotta read this” to everyone I know.

I love the Whats in the box part of Game of thrones. Sent white walker hand to Jofry.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Despite all these arguments about what IS and IS NOT fantasy, the bottom line is that ANet is likely limited in scope and resources as to what they can put out in these content patches so as not to conflict with the overall main story arch that they have and will be presenting.

All of these content “patches” are different….some are combat oriented, some have strong story-lines and some are just designed to provide some content filler. Anyone has the right to complain about how they don’t like this one or that one, but EVERYONE should keep in mind that they are FREE and none of them are required to actually complete the original game that you paid for.

Except that chonologically everything that happens in the updates is occuring after Zaitan has been defeated. Therefore they can do anything they want without having to worry about the main story.

Thobek.1730:

First of all let me say Bazaar of the four winds is a beautiful fantasy setting, my god when I first turned up and made my way to the top it was amazing. The floating ship was so beautifully put together, even the sounds of grinding wood and wind really made it feel like you were so high up. Such nice work on the visuals and setting, now the bad part…

The story is so weak. WEAK! southsun was boring, dealing with disgruntled employee’s contracts. Contracts?! really sounds like a typical day at work.

Aetherblade was great, starts of with a beautiful cutscene, sneaky pirates trying to disrupt the dragon bash, then you take the fight to them in a stunning dungeon (that area where the waves are crashing against the shore, heavy rain was so nice)

Now bazaar is here and OMG the first cutscene I get is about an election then talk to her further and its a trade agreement. This is a fantasy setting and I dealing with elections and trade agreements. FFS! stop it! from employment disputes to elections to trade agreements. This is how the star wars movies turned out first three were about adventure, the next three turned into a mess of trade agreements, elections (votes of no confidence) and the backlash from fans was severe.

TLDR… Stick to fantasy adventure, mystery, revenge, fighting against insurmountable odds, interesting villains, murder, romance, rescue missions… things that evoke emotions. Trade agreements and employment contracts do not.

I agree completely. I come into the game’s PvE section to escape from reality and I feel like I’m looking into a mirror of the news sometimes with the new additions.

Leablo.2651:

Obsidian.1328:

Leablo.2651:

Thobek.1730:

things that evoke emotions. Trade agreements and employment contracts do not.

Oh my.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Seattle_WTO_protests
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wisconsin_protests

In my best Seth Meyers voice…

Really dude? Really? You think emotional involvement in a video-game equates to the stark pains and passions of real-life? Really?

end rant

Oh my.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Oh noes!

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cop-out

Pandabro.8743:

I think the biggest problem for me is I have NO IDEA WHO’S THE VILLIAN!

The villains are the sky pirates. They have been attacking just outside the Zephyr Sanctum in DE’s.

Last content introduced Sky Pirates as a villains.
This content introduces players to the Zephyrite people that the Sky Pirates plunder.

Next content is a election. That will most likely advance the story of the Zephyrite vs the Sky Pirates.

Beyond that patch may be a whole new area?

I hope Anet makes the Zephyrite vs the Sky Pirates story a permanent one. With permanent zones to explore. The Quartz Nodes in the home areas are a hint that this will happen.

Seriously, people are complaining about this?

I for one, am sick to death of; Mysterious enemy posing threat to all good people of said fantasy land. Thus people must band together and vanquish mysterious threat.

A little spice to life doesnt harm anyone but kittening whingers who will whinge about anything and everything.

While I do believe the story could be improved a little bit (The Secret World spoiled me in that sense), I do think they’re good enough and the world does seem alive. And also, it’s what I think would happen if the situation was real.

The big baddie are the elder dragons, but in reality only one of the dragons, Zaithan, was a real and present threat, and by the time the living story starts he’s supposed to be dead.

Primordius is underground, hasn’t been heard of since he awoke except for the localized destroyer incursions (probably thanks to the dwarves still fighting him in the depths of tyria), Jormag is up north and the Norn have settled into their new home, Kralkatorrik is to the east but hasn’t been heard of since he awoke, his influence is mostly contained within a small area, and bubbles, well, we don’t even know its name.

The way I see it, it makes sense that when there was a war that actually reached the main city in the land, everyone banded together to defeat that evil… and once it was taken care of, people start focusing on smaller things, like in this case festivals, trade agreements and thigns like that.

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

Seriously, people are complaining about this?

I for one, am sick to death of; Mysterious enemy posing threat to all good people of said fantasy land. Thus people must band together and vanquish mysterious threat.

A little spice to life doesnt harm anyone but kittening whingers who will whinge about anything and everything.

I don’t think the OP is complaining, just saying their opinion. Every time someone on the forums says something someone else disagrees with they say the person is complaining, whining, crying.

Apotheosis.3786:

Gibson.4036:

Apotheosis.3786:

I just left SWoTR for this. I don’t like syfy at all, and this game is starting to feel very syfy

Technically, Star Wars isn’t even sci-fi. Space Opera, Science Fantasy, but there really isn’t any attempt at science in Star Wars.

And Syfy is the cable channel.

Honestly its all the same to me. I don’t like the “Sci-Fi” genre at all. Fake science is nonsensical. Science and fiction are more or less antonyms. I’ve never seen the 2 put together where it doesn’t make me cringe.

“Fake science is nonsensical”… which is why the genre has has produced very real modern technology, right? Sci-Fi not ‘fake science’ at all, its using science to tell a fictional, or as you so call it, a ‘fake’ story. Its imagining technology that does not exist, but could, and placing it in futuristic dramas and adventures. Your problem, is that you don’t understand what Sci-Fi is about.

Instead of worrying about what is real and what isn’t, just sit back and enjoy the tale; that’s what fiction is all about.

Just one thing to reiterate again, these living story things are sort of like unravelling step by step teasers and trailers to more to come.

Look into the LORE behind the Zephyr Sanctum. It relates almost directly with the Elder Dragons.

The NPCs themselves and their conversations will tell you they are followers or protectors etc of Glint, the dragon who was once a Kralkatorrik minion, who was cleansed by the Forgotten, who led a dwarven Brotherhood, who passed on the duty to the Zephyrite humans when they left the current world we know, and who from the short story collected crystals from Glint after she died during the fight alongside Destiny’s Edge against Kralkatorrik.

It’s all (almost all) written right there directly and clearly, if you take a look. It directly relates to the core of Gw lore. So how can we say its all politics and is boring? It’s all teasers and part of the development towards more to come in the future!

Danikat.8537:

One thing to bear in mind if you’re feeling dissapointed at the lack of story development and/or overall story is that this is just the first release dealing with this story.

Remember when Flame & Frost first came out and people complained that the story was entirely about helping refugees in some minor ways with absolutely no background to it or real explanation of what was going on. Then more of the story was released and all of that was filled in.

This will probably be the same. If we had already found out who wins the seat on the Captains Council, or how the trade agreement(s) worked out then I’d agree it’s disappointing, but as that hasn’t happened I feel like it’d be a bit like reading the first chapter or two of a book and complaining that it’s a bad story because they haven’t killed the bad guy yet.

… The ‘Flame and the Frost’ was great at the ending, the story picked up in the last two releases, however, a setting and thrilling conclusion alone, do not make a story. Hook, plot build up, character development; these are all elements of good story telling that GW2 staff fails to put out.

takatsu.9416:

Just one thing to reiterate again, these living story things are sort of like unravelling step by step teasers and trailers to more to come.

Look into the LORE behind the Zephyr Sanctum. It relates almost directly with the Elder Dragons.

The NPCs themselves and their conversations will tell you they are followers or protectors etc of Glint, the dragon who was once a Kralkatorrik minion, who was cleansed by the Forgotten, who led a dwarven Brotherhood, who passed on the duty to the Zephyrite humans when they left the current world we know, and who from the short story collected crystals from Glint after she died during the fight alongside Destiny’s Edge against Kralkatorrik.

It’s all (almost all) written right there directly and clearly, if you take a look. It directly relates to the core of Gw lore. So how can we say its all politics and is boring? It’s all teasers and part of the development towards more to come in the future!

Great! Except once again they forgot to put the most important stuff where it matters, in game.

Too many replies here taking the OP too literally. He obviously is simply stating that he wishes the stories were more epic, more adventuresome. He’s not actually arguing that fantasy as a genre does not have these sorts of stories.

I agree with the OP too. The stories are not quite as epic as I would like, but I think that’s because you-know-who is already dead and they haven’t got round to the next you-know-who yet. So in the meantime its filler and fluff. Another problem I have with the stories is that they have been a bit shoddy in the writing so far, the characters have been dull, the dialogue simply functional, but I think that’s just the rush to get this content out. One character I hated in particular was Marjory Delaqua. It just seemed really lazy writing, despite the obvious rush. They might have used a fierce no-nonsense, even brutal, Charr detective, or an inept yet over confident Asura detective or a drunk Norn… so many ways to make it come alive and at the same time feel part of Tyria. All my ideas are clichés I suppose but they are clichés of Tyria which is better than a cliché drafted in from another genre, another planet even.

On the whole, I’ve found the stories in GW2 that weren’t trying to be epic more engaging than those that were.

The dragons are so massive and so impersonal that they become kind of ho-hum.

Some of the small stories around the world are much more interesting. I enjoyed Tybalt’s bumbling good-nature, the grandfather and grandson talking about the Dolyak graveyard, the Skritt who recognize their own lack of intelligence when there are enough of them to make them more intelligent (sort of Flowers for Algernon poignant) and the potential in the Caithe/Faolain romance (though I haven’t seen it fleshed out at all, if it is somewhere in the game) to name a few.

How do you care about trying to defeat weather patterns or the shifting of tectonic plates? We need smaller stories with individuals who want things and have obstacles to overcome to punctuate the massive battles and mountain-sized monsters.

In the best stories, the slam-bang, special effects fireworks saturated moments are incredible because of the smaller stories that led up to them, making them important.

There could be improvement in how the stories are crafted and delivered, but making them bigger and flashier, IMO, isn’t what’s necessary.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Except that chonologically everything that happens in the updates is occuring after Zaitan has been defeated. Therefore they can do anything they want without having to worry about the main story.

I totally disagree. The entire Living Story line makes NO mention or assumptions about the status of Zaitan (that I have head or read) for exactly the reason of NOT entangling them with the main game story. Players start new characters, new players join the game, some players are just freakin’ slow (like me) and the Devs can’t alienate or confuse players by making any assumptions about where players are in their story line.

If you can find a reference that supports your claim of chronology, post it and I’ll admit to lore idiocy and beg forgiveness.