48% of your voting players want Abaddon
Would you have called for this if Abaddon was voted for the winning fractal and we missed on Thaumanova?
Probably not, but someone would, and they’d have a point.
Democratic Voting Process at work.
Welcome to the Tyranny of the majority.
I do agree that it’s terrible that they’re only doing one. As stated in another thread, I don’t prefer Abaddon’s fractal, but would have been interested in seeing it -as well- as the Thaumanova fractal.
You are incorrectly assuming that all who voted did so with the fractal as a primary motivation. Not everyone who voted runs fractals. A percentage of those players don’t even know what a ‘fractal’ is.
If there was less than 5% between the candidates and you could reasonably argue that the vast majority of Kiel’s voters were voting for the Fractal then yes, it would also be unreasonable of ANet to not make the Thaumanova Fractal.
What this vote has proven is that the players want BOTH. We don’t want ANet to hold much needed content hostage when there is already a lack of new dungeons etc.
For them to refuse to make both Fractals at this point is essentially telling almost 50% of their player base to go screw themselves because their opinions have 2% less value than the other group.
Edit: I do think you can definitely make an argument that the majority of Gnashblade voters were voting for Fractals. Not only have they been very vocal about this in the chat, Gnashblade’s other benefit was hardly desirable with a slight cost reduction in the biased RNG. It’s reasonable to assume far more people want the Abaddon fractal than want cheaper keys for a limited time.
(edited by Null.9743)
I do run fractals. I voted Kiel.
Also, better the tyranny of the majority when it comes to seeing what content the majority wants then being dictated solely by the elitism of the minority, wouldn’t you think?
Just because you feel it’s objectively better doesn’t, in itself, make it objectively better.
Not getting in to why Kiel won or any of the political drama, I’ll just be very simple about this.
The thing that is seriously missing from GW2 is end game content. When almost half of your entire audience votes for lore themed end game content, there is only one sensible thing to do.
Since one member of staff has said “We will only ever make one”, I think it’s time for ANet to confirm they’re going back on this poor decision and say they aren’t going to refuse to make new content because a few percent more wanted Waypoints/Thaumanova or were simply voting on RP principles having nothing to do with actual gameplay.
Wait… you’re saying that roleplaying in a roleplaying game has “nothing to do with gameplay”?
You are incorrectly assuming that all who voted did so with the fractal as a primary motivation. Not everyone who voted runs fractals. A percentage of those players don’t even know what a ‘fractal’ is.
The fractal was Evon’s major selling point.
Yes Olba, gameplay is the interaction with the content designed to be played in the game. Roleplaying is coming up with your own content, inside the game world. They are two different things and roleplay does not affect gameplay.
The term “RPG” refers far more towards a progressive, stat based game set in a fantasy world where you fight monsters. In the same way that JRPG doesn’t literally mean an RPG from Japan.
Lets just get 1 thing straight…
You have no way of knowing what % of the player base voted for what. 48% of ballots cast were for Evon, not 48% of the players base. For all we know everyone who voted for Kiel only put in 1 ballot each, while a few die hard Evon fans put in over 1k ballots each (I know this didn’t happen, but just making a point that we have no idea where the “player base” actually is on this matter).
While I agree that this game needs more end game content, I very much doubt Anet will read any post with a title similar to this thread (as their are simply way too many right now).
The fact that there are a huge flood of ‘Give us Abaddon’ posts shows above all else that ArenaNet has made a mistake.
They shouldn’t have held this content hostage, they DEFINITELY shouldn’t have allowed one of their employees to say “We will only ever develop one” on the official forum.
If the vote had been a massive landslide to one candidate my argument would not have worth but when the vote is literally almost 50/50, refusing to make half the content because of a technicality is nothing less than insulting.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they just make the other one at a later date. Sound like they at least had some preliminary planning done for it, would be a shame to just waste it.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they just make the other one at a later date. Sound like they at least had some preliminary planning done for it, would be a shame to just waste it.
They said they won’t be making both.
Yeah there was an official forum post by a developer very bluntly stating “We will make one and one only”, even though the official news post referred to the winning Fractal as ‘made by the end of the year’ and not ‘the only one of the two to be made’.
My hope is that there was a serious case of misinformation with this developer, that he will apologise for spreading misinformation and that ANet will in fact give us Abaddon next year at the least.
Frankly I’d like to see them divert extra man power to the Fractals team given the player response but at the least, they should announce they’re developing Abaddon eventually.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they just make the other one at a later date. Sound like they at least had some preliminary planning done for it, would be a shame to just waste it.
They said they won’t be making both.
Yeah, but they can still change their minds. Or maybe the really meant that they wouldn’t make both now, possibly making the second one in the future. Maybe they won’t, but I’m just saying it wouldn’t surprise me if they didn’t.
Besides, everyone is just going to keep rolling swamp anyways, no reason to do any of the other fractals in the long term if they make the run harder or longer.
Kiel- she doesn’t care about the 48% who didn’t vote for her.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they just make the other one at a later date. Sound like they at least had some preliminary planning done for it, would be a shame to just waste it.
This is pretty much my thought. They set the groundwork, what do they gain by throwing it in the bin and declaring they’re never, ever going to touch it again?
There is none. The feeling of the vote having a permanent effect on the game really should be coming from the Living Story going forward with the winner (Ellen, as it turned out) being on the council.
Yes, they’ve got other things on their plate, and to be frank, more fractals probably isn’t the most important thing there. However, if at some point in the future they do look at doing more fractals, then the Abaddon fractal should go back into consideration.
Not this year, maybe not next year or the year after… but not tossed into the proverbial incinerator either.
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
abaddon is lost. and some npc we don’t know did the killing blow behind the scenes instead of us.!
don’t be a soursport!
Yes Olba, gameplay is the interaction with the content designed to be played in the game. Roleplaying is coming up with your own content, inside the game world. They are two different things and roleplay does not affect gameplay.
The term “RPG” refers far more towards a progressive, stat based game set in a fantasy world where you fight monsters. In the same way that JRPG doesn’t literally mean an RPG from Japan.
Roleplaying also happens within the content; making decisions based on what you believe your character would do. Would they want Kiel or Gnashblade on the council? Would they want the fractal researchers to look into the fall of Abaddon and gather more details of human history, or the Thaumanova Reactor explosion that happened relatively recently and may provide critical scientific information?
And there’s the question of Gnashblade offering discounts to buy keys that unlock the chests that his business locked in the first place. But I doubt roleplayers were quite that pedantic.
I maintain that it was an error in judgement to merge a vote on fractals with a vote on living story events, but that was what happened and none of the playerbase has to justify their votes.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they just make the other one at a later date. Sound like they at least had some preliminary planning done for it, would be a shame to just waste it.
They said they won’t be making both.
They also said removing culling wasnt going to happen. I also remember being told that making EU and NA reset times different was physically impossible as well.
They say lots of things wont happen and then they happen….
A L T S
Skritt Happens
Skritt Happens
Democratic Voting Process at work.
Welcome to the Tyranny of the majority.
If only. That is so not how our democracy has been working lately. Congress just does their own thing. Usually the minority holds the majority hostage.
If you don’t like the outcome /votemore not /crymore
I personally put in 2131 votes for Kiel as if i want to know about abadon I will play GW1.
I simply wanted the Thaumanova fractal. I could care less about cheaper waypoints.
Fracts are overrated! The fact Evon supports RNG killed it.
18 80s | 12 100% | r177 | wvw r970 | 9,000+ hours
BP → DR → FA → Mag → BP → FA
BP → DR → FA → Mag → BP → FA
If you don’t like the outcome /votemore not /crymore
What a terrible attitude to have, I’m glad you’re not a game developer.
You don’t take 48% of your player base’s desires and say “Cry more”. You realise you’ve made a mistake in tying Fractals content to Living Story content and announce that both will be released in time, Thaumanova will just be first as per the player vote.
Yes Olba, gameplay is the interaction with the content designed to be played in the game. Roleplaying is coming up with your own content, inside the game world. They are two different things and roleplay does not affect gameplay.
The term “RPG” refers far more towards a progressive, stat based game set in a fantasy world where you fight monsters. In the same way that JRPG doesn’t literally mean an RPG from Japan.
Roleplaying also happens within the content; making decisions based on what you believe your character would do. Would they want Kiel or Gnashblade on the council? Would they want the fractal researchers to look into the fall of Abaddon and gather more details of human history, or the Thaumanova Reactor explosion that happened relatively recently and may provide critical scientific information?
It’s also fairly important to consider that RP is actually baked right into the game as well with us choosing our own character origins, our own Order to work with/for and even making in character decisions while talking to some NPCs.
If you don’t like the outcome /votemore not /crymore
What a terrible attitude to have, I’m glad you’re not a game developer.
You don’t take 48% of your player base’s desires and say “Cry more”. You realise you’ve made a mistake in tying Fractals content to Living Story content and announce that both will be released in time, Thaumanova will just be first as per the player vote.
I said votemore NOT crymore.
Simply put if I offered you a choice of a portion of $10,000,000.
You have 2 options to chose between 52% and 48%.
Would you take 48% or 52%?
One is clearly the majority the other while not insignificant is not as great.
It’s also fairly important to consider that RP is actually baked right into the game as well with us choosing our own character origins, our own Order to work with/for and even making in character decisions while talking to some NPCs.
I think though the point is that Ellen winning shouldn’t deny us Fractal content which is totally unrelated to the living story. Yes, Ellen should win the captain’s council seat etc because that’s what the vote decided.
It should not however mean that ANet outright refuses to develop content 48% of the votes want because of a technicality. The players deserve both Fractals.
I said votemore NOT crymore.
Simply put if I offered you a choice of a portion of $10,000,000.
You have 2 options to chose between 52% and 48%.Would you take 48% or 52%?
One is clearly the majority the other while not insignificant is not as great.
That metaphor has literally nothing to do with what we’re talking about. Strawman argument.
I like it’s only now that Abbadon won’t be a thing that people are suddenly going on about how it’s not fair that only one fractal is getting made. Where was all this sentiment back when it was so assured that the Reactor wasn’t getting made? I seem to recall it being nothing but “who wants a smelly asuran reactor”.
Oh, but now being fair and making both matters.
Pft.
No it has everything to do with this argument. Your just hurting that Abadon didn’t win. I get it. Your vote counted but you didn’t win.
In politics this happens all the time, you vote for person A, person B gets into power. Do you send hundreds of hate mail to the president telling him he/she cheated?
No!
Clouded, your metaphor makes zero sense and here’s why.
Money is not people. Money is not sentient. When asked to choose 52% or 48% of the money, if you pick 52% then 48% of the money isn’t going to be consciously very disappointed and disheartened. 48% of the money hasn’t given ANet £50 expecting a video game with regular updates and new dungeon content.
This is not a real life election. This is not a choice between big piles of money. This is ArenaNet making a mistake and holding much needed content hostage over a technicality. This is 48% of the consumers of a product being told they don’t matter. Your metaphor doesn’t make sense in the context of this scenario.
No, I have to agree that the metaphor is both clumsy and, as stated, irrelevant. I get the point you’re going for, only because you made it both before and after the metaphor, but the metaphor you use has absolutely nothing to do with your argument.
This is coming from someone who voted for Kiel and Thaumanova and thus cannot be dismissed under the pretense that I’m “just hurting that Abaddon didn’t win.”
Don’t be so inflammatory, guy.
As far as the fractal choice go, it was biased from the start.
The Abbadon fractal was truly the only reason one would have voted for Evon.
On the other side we have a likeable character already known to the players that offers a discount on waypoints. And lot of people who would rather get it than a fractal they don’t care anyway.
Fractal users got screwed out by a biased choice, basically.
But i would say, make a survey. Let’s see what fractal would have won if it wasn’t for the biased choice that was given ingame.
The thaumanova reactor is a lore based decision too. It’s just not the lore YOU wanted. I voted for the lore I wanted. It’d be great if the fall of abaddon got introduced too, more lore all around. But just because we voted for a different fractal, don’t say we dont give two kittens about lore.
Lore is typically information about ancient or at least distant events which has been passed down generation to generation by word of mouth (not unlike Folklore).
Thaumanova is very much recent history, the ruins are still smoking and producing monsters, they’re still cleaning it up. I would not consider it Guild Wars lore. There’s a chance it ties in to the current dragon thing but again, that’s Current Events not lore.
That is not to say I think it has no place. As I’ve mentioned before in this thread, I think with the votes being so evenly split what’s clear is that the players deserve for both to be made (Though it’s fair if they make Thaumanova first since it won).
48% of players? That is very misleading. Last I checked there were only something like a bit over 3 million copies of GW2 sold (We have to use that since there is no figure for the active player base) yet at the last exit poll on Saturday they stated over 9 million votes had been cast. That is quite a discrepancy and there, and there is nothing to indicate the way individual players voted (if they voted at all, which in some cases they didn’t).
Sidenote: Yes, I did vote Kiel (storyline reasons. Anet should have given a better and more relevant opponent), but I also wanted the Abaddon fractal, so where exactly do I fall?
Mad Aussie Bastard
I have a feeling that if Anet decided to make the Abaddon fractal anyway, a good chunk of the Kiel supporters would be mad about it because they want to stick it to the Evon supporters.
We already saw that some Kiel supporters were happy that we’re not getting the Abaddon fractal, so there would be an outrage from them if Anet decided to make it anyway.
You’ve lost, deal with it. You’re basically being a jerk and saying the people who won made a bad decision. People have different tastes and opinions than you. Now stop making those threads.
You are incorrectly assuming that all who voted did so with the fractal as a primary motivation. Not everyone who voted runs fractals. A percentage of those players don’t even know what a ‘fractal’ is.
And in that refute, you are assuming all voting for Kiel voted with Thaumanova in mind…
Hence, I guess you can assume that out of the population voting for Evon vs Kiel, then the voters in favour of their sponsored fractals was also split 52 vs 48 just as the total outcome of the poll was 52 v 48.
Your logic affects both camps of voters.
To lend my support to the OP, I think that when the vote came out this close, it would be a good gesture on Anet’s behalf to create both fractals. Of course, the Thaumanova fad first. If the results were more clear-cut, like a 60 v 40 win or even greater landslide, I’d not expect anything like that, but as it stands it’d a nice gesture.
And please before you berate me my opinion as a claim, I’m saying it’d be a nice gesture, not a necessity or anything Anet has to do.
Lord Sazed / Hasla the Huntress / Seaguard Hala
Seamarshal Belit / Initiate Xun Tsu / Mistwarden Roshone
Seafarer’s Rest | Northerner @ Dragon Season
Seamarshal Belit / Initiate Xun Tsu / Mistwarden Roshone
Seafarer’s Rest | Northerner @ Dragon Season
(edited by Dondarrion.2748)
I think it should be clear to Anet by now that whoever voted Evon voted like that with the Abbadon fractal in mind.
Very few of those who voted Kiel did so thinking of Tahumanova. I’d propose a new experiment – a new vote : Tahumanova vs Fall of Abbadon fractals – and let’s see then what the playerbase wants!
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
I would say just 48% of the votes, not 48% of players.
Due that we all like conspiracy theories, I believe that people who vote for kiel were more, with less votes and people who vote for evon were less, with more votes.
That is why you reached the 48%.
But well, anet will know best, they know the actual figures. They know how many people and how many votes were cast
I think it should be clear to Anet by now that whoever voted Evon voted like that with the Abbadon fractal in mind.
Very few of those who voted Kiel did so thinking of Tahumanova. I’d propose a new experiment – a new vote : Tahumanova vs Fall of Abbadon fractals – and let’s see then what the playerbase wants!
I specifically voted for the Thaumanova fractal.
I support Portable Doors: Player Housing anywhere!
~ Whips ~ City Minigames ~ City Jumping Puzzles ~
~ Whips ~ City Minigames ~ City Jumping Puzzles ~
If you really want to experience the fall of Abaddon on a scale that most of you are likely imagining it, don’t ruin it by trying to cram it into a ~10 minute fractal adventure. Ask for something like this instead: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Bonus-Mission-Pack/first#post2561701