Guild Wars 2

Razor.9872:

Lutinz.6915:

Razor.9872:

Lion’s Arch needs the growth that Gnashblade can provide; like Yomm before him, Gnashblade holds the right talent to make Lion’s Arch thrive.

The Captain’s Council already has merchants and and money men in its ranks. Evon doesnt really offer it much that it hasnt already got in that department. If anything, Evon could represent the same threat to Lion’s Arch that Yomm was in that his market strength could grow too dominant, allowing him to shoulder out the opposition and set laws to favor a monopoly.

Also Gnashblade is in the pocket of the Ash Legion. Do you really want to give a outside power governmental power in LA and undermine its independance?

Plus Kiel is a woman that will vote on her convictions which could be interesting as it could set her against the other council members at times. Gnashblade is just another business man.

Getefix.9150:

as a serious note, what can we learn from the thaumanova fractal that we cant from just raiding inquest bases? isnt it a failed inquest experiment? where did the talk of “OMG DISTROYERS!11!” come from? its been on a few talk pages already

I believe their were unconfermed reports of Destroyers at the Reactor just before it exploded. Frankly, the thing with the reactor is it wasnt just another research base. It was the heart of Inquest research into the EDs. Knowing what actually trigger that explosion could tell us alot about the actual nature of the EDs and perhaps even their origins!

Clearly we should all vote Kiel. She is an upstanding and loyal Lion’s Archian with strong convictions while Evon is a dirty Ash Legion agent with hidden agendas. Plus Evon probably smells funny and just imagine how much of a mess he would make at the council meetings while he was molting. Cat fur…. everywhere.

I can assure you, Evon keeps himself well-groomed. And I don’t know why you would care what the council smells like. Furthermore, Evon is anything but “just another business man.” He’s the head of the freaking Black Lion Trading Company. If anything, he would know how to run a city — something Kiel seriously lacks. Kiel doesn’t even really want to do this — Magnus does. The Lion Guard are just trying to garner more power over the city.

Lion’s Arch is supposed to be a city of diversity. Are you telling me you’ll vote against Evon just because he’s a charr? Shame on you. >:(

Well, we all know the Black Lion Trading company is a front for a power play by the ash legion into LA’s economy. Same issue applies to Evon having a leadership role. Conflict of Interest. After all I wouldnt vote for someone I knew took orders from the Ministry either. Not good practice for maintaining LA’s independance.

And sure Kiel might not know much about running the city but she is smart, steady and a quick thinker and has a strong moral compass. The council already has many members who know how to run the city.

Razor.9872:

Rin Taou.2485:

I hope you guys realize it doesn’t matter who you vote for because Evon’s going to stuff the ballot box.

Ellen’s only chance is to catch him in the act.

Evon is not that kind of Charr.

Well he is Ash Legion…..

I’m sure you’re aware that he succeeded. They succeeded in doing everything. That is, until it was Logan’s turn to play guard. Then he bailed to help a queen who ended up doing most of the work herself. And lets not forget about Riona. She almost killed the chances of Charr and Humans working out a truce. Admit it — Humans can rarely be trusted.

Well it was also the queen that arranged the truce between the two factions and a human who actually recovered the Claw of Khan-Ur.

It does raise the issue of divided loyalties though…. Ellen has lived in LA since she was a child. Evon on the other hand was sent to LA by the Ash Legion to extablish the BLT company… Where does Evon’s loyalty really lie if he has to choose between the Ash Legion or LA? hmm…..

Hehe:P This election stuff is more fun than I thought it would be.

Lutinz.6915:

Getefix.9150:

as a serious note, what can we learn from the thaumanova fractal that we cant from just raiding inquest bases? isnt it a failed inquest experiment? where did the talk of “OMG DISTROYERS!11!” come from? its been on a few talk pages already

I believe their were unconfermed reports of Destroyers at the Reactor just before it exploded. Frankly, the thing with the reactor is it wasnt just another research base. It was the heart of Inquest research into the EDs. Knowing what actually trigger that explosion could tell us alot about the actual nature of the EDs and perhaps even their origins!

Clearly we should all vote Kiel. She is an upstanding and loyal Lion’s Archian with strong convictions while Evon is a dirty Ash Legion agent with hidden agendas. Plus Evon probably smells funny and just imagine how much of a mess he would make at the council meetings while he was molting. Cat fur…. everywhere.

it may have BEEN the inquest base researching ED…. but now CoE is plus whichever lore we learn in fractals (supposing ED have anything to do with explosion) we would learn somewhere else in the world, arenanet wouldnt deny fans any lore as important as whatever you may be thinking of

plus…. kiel is just magnus’ puppet so he gains more power in lions arch and evon can use his vast wealth to make lions arch better, voting gnashblade makes sense in an RP point of view as well as game content

Ill be farming for tickets all day this sunday for 8hrs straight! Evon-o-13!

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Please don’t blame Evon for your failures in completing the trial.

Sure I do. I managed to complete Kiel trials just fine but can’t complete Evon ones after the patch. Clearly it is Evon’s fault.

Getefix.9150:

Lutinz.6915:

Getefix.9150:

as a serious note, what can we learn from the thaumanova fractal that we cant from just raiding inquest bases? isnt it a failed inquest experiment? where did the talk of “OMG DISTROYERS!11!” come from? its been on a few talk pages already

I believe their were unconfermed reports of Destroyers at the Reactor just before it exploded. Frankly, the thing with the reactor is it wasnt just another research base. It was the heart of Inquest research into the EDs. Knowing what actually trigger that explosion could tell us alot about the actual nature of the EDs and perhaps even their origins!

Clearly we should all vote Kiel. She is an upstanding and loyal Lion’s Archian with strong convictions while Evon is a dirty Ash Legion agent with hidden agendas. Plus Evon probably smells funny and just imagine how much of a mess he would make at the council meetings while he was molting. Cat fur…. everywhere.

it may have BEEN the inquest base researching ED…. but now CoE is plus whichever lore we learn in fractals (supposing ED have anything to do with explosion) we would learn somewhere else in the world, arenanet wouldnt deny fans any lore as important as whatever you may be thinking of

plus…. kiel is just magnus’ puppet so he gains more power in lions arch and evon can use his vast wealth to make lions arch better, voting gnashblade makes sense in an RP point of view as well as game content

You can learn alot from things going dramaticly wrong. CoE was built to replace the Reactor which is where the Inquest used to do its research into the EDs and chaos energy. We know very little about the nature of the dragons and we certianly havent seen everything the Inquest has learned.

As for Kiel being Magnus’s puppet, the Black Lion Trading company is quite likely a front for the Ash Legion which would make Evon a puppet of the Ash Legion Imperitor, Malice. At least Magnus is part of LA.

draxynnic.3719:

On Logan… he was in a catch-22. He had obligations in two different places, which he could not fulfill simultaneously. He’d have let someone down whatever he did (and if you read EoD more carefully, it’s apparent that without his intervention, the Branded would have got to Jennah before she deus-ex-magica’d the battle. Not every spell is a combat spell with a casting time of seconds, after all). In fact, he left hoping that he’d be able to handle Jennah’s problem in time to return for the fight, and thus cover both.

So what? Jennah would have died and that’s it. Saving a single queen vs saving the whole world or at least thousands of living creatures from further corruption. Including humans. There should be no question at all about which is the more important thing.

It’s very human action to save the woman you love I guess but that just shows Thackeray does not have guts to make sacrifices for the common good. Queens can be replaced. Worlds can not.

I don’t hold Kiel responsible for Thackeray’s actions though. Doing so would be as illogical as the strawman argument which is summed up as “thackeray is human —> thackeray shows poor judgment --> all humans show poor judgment”.

I dislike Kiel because she is made to be the goody-two-shoes and shows a lot of elements that Kormir did. Her character is pretty shallow too. Evon is much more interesting as a character. However as mentioned since I managed to complete her T4 trial, find aspect arena more fun than survival, and mildly dislike anything involving Izzy I’ll convert to follower of Kiel.

The devs are really enjoying this aren’t they? XD

Ugh, I’m sad because it looks like Evon may lose. T___T

:continues gathering support tickets:

I’m voting for the fractal, fighting a mad God in the Crystal desert beats fighting inquest (again!) in what will just be a re-dressed thaumanova reactor (remove blast damage). btw, I’m saving all my tokens up so I can dump the lot with a Gnashblade suppoter’s kit, when does the ellection end I don’t want to wait too long and miss it!

Vote Kiel, Evon is a crook!

Commerse beats combat! Only Evon has the funding to protect Lions Arch. Sure Kiels heart is in the right place but if Lions Arch is ever threatened and burning to the ground who would help the most? Kiel would sacrifice the bravest defenders to protect her loved ones. Evon would be able to outsource to mercenaries, build better defenses, he would save Lions Arch from ruin! He would protect his income or be forced to face his imporator as a failure.

Evon will save Lions Arch

The statement that Kiel is Magnus’s puppet – if that is even true and not simply a case of being political allies (people are allowed to have allies, right?) – is assuming that this is a bad thing. What we know of Magnus suggests that he is in favour of protecting Lion’s Arch, sticking it to the Elder Dragons when and where possible, and freeing the colonists of the Southsun contracts once possible to do so in a fashion that has plausible deniability. Would a second voice in favour of these things really be a bad thing?

For fairness, similar things can be said for Evon’s connection to the Ash Legion – however, questions regarding the independence of candidates run both ways.

Northlander.4619:

So what? Jennah would have died and that’s it. Saving a single queen vs saving the whole world or at least thousands of living creatures from further corruption. Including humans. There should be no question at all about which is the more important thing.

I’ve seen this argument so many times I could probably dissect it in my sleep.

Jennah is important. Just ask the Order of Whispers. At best, losing Jennah would have meant the charr-human peace process would likely have never been started (it’s said outright in a Whispers storyline that “if we lose Jennah, we lose the truce”). Even if she had managed to survive without Logan’s intervention, it was his recruiting of the charr POWs in Ebonhawke in Ebonhawke’s defense that inspired Jennah to pursue the peace process at all. If Logan hadn’t gone back, there would be no truce. With no truce, resources that went to the Pact from Kryta and the High Legions would probably have gone to continuation of the war instead. Without those resources, the Pact may not have been able to succeed in Orr. Thus, we’d have traded the destruction of the dragon that presented a clear and present threat to everyone around the Sea of Sorrows for one that pretty much seems to have been cowering in some hidden lair since its close shave in Edge of Destiny.

Then you have the question of the Krytan succession. There appears to be no clear heir to the throne. Best case scenario is a smooth transition of power (back) to Minister Caudecus – who is corrupt (as told by his own daughter, so we can stop with arguments about him actually being the hero against the fat monarchy. Did we mention that Caudecus issued orders to kill said daughter if she couldn’t be brought back alive?), anti-charr, and to all appearances, uncaring of the Elder Dragon threat. Worse, there’s the possibility of a Krytan civil war that leads to destabilisation of the entire region. You may be willing to trade a dragon for a queen, but would you trade a dragon for an entire nation? Especially if it was YOUR nation? There are times when such an ultimate sacrifice might be justified for the benefit of the greater world, but Tyria was not and certainly is not now at the point where things are so apocalyptic that it becomes a choice of letting one nation be destroyed or all will. With several dragons that will still be out there even with Kralkatorrik dead, having Kryta remain intact probably does more for Tyria’s survival than killing one dragon.

To make matters worse, the human 20-30 story involves a human soldier who was corrupted by an Orrian artifact that caused him to become a Risen magnet. What if that soldier still came across that artifact in the hypothetical civil war scenario, pulling in a tide of Risen into a nation completely ill-equipped to defend itself… thus leading to Kryta becoming yet another conquest for Zhaitan and its populace becoming more soldiers for his army. I’d have liked to have seen Lion’s Arch survive a coordinated Risen attack from the sea and from Kryta.

Now, you may say that Logan didn’t know all this… but the third paragraph at least is something he’d have been aware of. Furthermore, I can turn that on its head: He didn’t know the timing would be such that his presence or lack therof would be so critical (in fact, I found that sequence rather contrived). In fact, we don’t even know that. Maybe Rytlock would have failed to strike a mortal blow regardless, and we would have potentially had all the bad stuff above, and Kralkatorrik would have been still alive. Possibly even more confident and aggressive, as the sequence of events we saw he interpreted as a near miss, while if Rytlock had tried to stab him with the spine and just completely failed to do any damage, Kralkatorrik may have instead been reassured of his own invincibility.

What would we have gained if Kralkatorrik had died in Edge of Destiny? Well, given that Arah is still dangerous with Zhaitan dead and with a cleansing ritual having been performed for Orr, I don’t think the Dragonbrand would have disappeared overnight. It may be a little less dangerous, but it would surely still be there and a danger.

The “Better to let the queen die so the dragon may be slain” argument is a simplistic one that when you look deeper into it, just doesn’t hold water. Events since have vindicated Logan’s choice, if you analyse them rationally.

Let’s look at a few things were we check the money, fractals en de council spot.

Looking at the money side Kiel seems the better candidate, but how much reduction will we get? 50% – 40% – 10% – 5%? Money for waypoint is easily earned back, while keys might have 50 gem reduction ( which is more then a few silver ). Also if they add new skins in the chest people obviously buy more keys and will probably saves a few gold on buying key’s thats way more money saved then waypoint.

Looking at the fractal side Evon is obviously the best of the 2, i mean we havn’t had anything with the gods going one, while in gw 1 we had shrines were we could kneel and pray to the gods for boosts and in certain stories the gods were involved to.

Looking at the council spot, my opinion is that Kiel should not be on a chair, she should be out on the fields serving and protection the citizens. don’t forget the council is a group of pirates. If you look at Evons work ( way of acting and thinking ) you will see that he just fits perfectly there.

I got a few stacks now in my inventory waiting for the last days, voting for Evon. Since the candidates are very close to each other ( 4% difference ), anything can happen. And in those last days i can bet that the amount of voting will either be doubled or tripled compared to last week.

Essence Snow.3194:

Wasn’t Abaddon the god of water? Didn’t the battle happen in the Crystal Sea, resulting in the Crystal Desert?

A vote for Evon = more underwater combat….let that one sink in!

This is incorrect. Abaddon fell, and turned the Crystal Sea into the Crystal Desert. But the battle happened at the Mouth of Torment. So that is where we would see his defeat. And the Mouth of Torment is quite a special place.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Mouth_of_Torment

It reminds me of similar type of event in EVE Online, where players could join one of the two spaceship fleets and defend or destroy the super capital ship. Unfortunately, the game creators wanted the big ship to be destroyed so they send few additonal capital ships to make sure that it will end exactly how they planned, making the defending fleet completely outnumbered and outgunned.

From what I’ve seen here so far I guess that no matter how many people will vote for Kiel, Evon will win by few %. Just like Arena wanted it to happen.

Razor.9872:

BobbyStein.2315:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Just ask yourselves if you really want to elect a fancy cat with a lead designer in his pocket. We’ll just have double up our support for Kiel on SATURDAY.

Brought to you by the people against smelly animals in office.

This man speaks the truth.

Remind me which Edge of Destiny member screwed over the others…oh right…the human -_-

Kiel would run away and leave us all to die if Kralkatorrik attacked Lion’s Arch. Then she’d blow up all the spare boats so we couldn’t escape.

draxynnic.3719:

Now, you may say that Logan didn’t know all this… but the third paragraph at least is something he’d have been aware of.

Logan didn’t know all that and couldn’t have known all that. Also it still shows he is willing to place his own race above others and thinks he is important enough that he, and humanity, are the only one capable of saving the world.

Also even if slaying the dragon would not automatically cure the world (which it shouldn’t do anyway – that’s bad writing) of the effect it caused it would have certainly halted it.

All I see hubris, ego and human centic world view. Members of other races were ready to see it through. He was not. There’s no point trying to defend him. It’s a simple fact.

Northlander.4619:

draxynnic.3719:

Now, you may say that Logan didn’t know all this… but the third paragraph at least is something he’d have been aware of.

Logan didn’t know all that and couldn’t have known all that. Also it still shows he is willing to place his own race above others and thinks he is important enough that he, and humanity, are the only one capable of saving the world.

Also even if slaying the dragon would not automatically cure the world (which it shouldn’t do anyway – that’s bad writing) of the effect it caused it would have certainly halted it.

All I see hubris, ego and human centic world view. Members of other races were ready to see it through. He was not. There’s no point trying to defend him. It’s a simple fact.

This is getting quite off topic and should probably have its own thread but Im gonna reply anyway.

Killing Kralkatorik would have perhaps stopped the Shatterer from turning up but for the part of Tyria we are in, thats about it at this point. Killing an ED doesnt remove its corruption or kill all its minions. Arah and Orr have showed us that. Therefore, its quite likely that Killing Kralkatorik wouldnt have dont much benificial for our part of the world in the short term.

However, if he had been killed AND if Jennah had died, I could see two major effects. Firstly its likely that the races would underestimate the threat of the other EDs. After all if just 6 people can kill one, how tough can they be? Without Jennah there would be no peace between Kryta and the Charr, the Vigil would have had a lot harder time forming, both human and charr resources would be further consumed by their ongoing war leaving the orders with less resources and we could kiss any chance of racial unity good bye.

I dont think those were Logan’s thoughts though. He was concerned for Jennah. If you read what he said and did afterwards he intended to come back. He had to make a choice between the friends he fought with and what he fought for. He chose the later. Its not easy to say any of the other members of Destiny’s Edge wouldnt have done the same if they were in that situation because none of them had that same choice.

Logan’s choice was not black or white. He had no real good choices. If anything his error was to try and do too much.

Onshidesigns.1069:

Two of the same chaos rift will exist in two places at the same time. This could possibly create a portal “wormhole” between the open world and something in the Mists.

Let’s just put it this way. This is ALREADY happening in the current, playable world. Look at the Shadow Behemoth and any other shadow/chaos beasts. Thaumanova’s effects on the world are playable already, and independent of a possible fractal investigating the incident, the effects and lore surrounding the aftermath can still be built on.

With the Abaddon fractal, there’s no such possibility without some serious retconning or left-shield shenanigans on the part of the writers. If we vote for the Abaddon fractal, we still have a chance of seeing Thaumanova’s story built on in the future- we just won’t see its past.

ArenaNet has already decided the victor. Players aren’t actually voting for anything. It’s all a sham by ArenaNet to make players feel like they have an impact on the world and to get them to log as many game hours as possible. I can’t believe so many of you are falling for it.

Elbegast.6970:

ArenaNet has already decided the victor. Players aren’t actually voting for anything. It’s all a sham by ArenaNet to make players feel like they have an impact on the world and to get them to log as many game hours as possible. I can’t believe so many of you are falling for it.

Far be it from a developer to design a compelling choice for the community to bicker over. They’ve even included you of the Tin Foil Hat coalition in this. Your opinions are just as expressible as those of the people actually voting.

Elbegast.6970:

ArenaNet has already decided the victor. Players aren’t actually voting for anything. It’s all a sham by ArenaNet to make players feel like they have an impact on the world and to get them to log as many game hours as possible. I can’t believe so many of you are falling for it.

So, who have ArenaNet decided will win then?

lordkrall.7241:

Elbegast.6970:

ArenaNet has already decided the victor. Players aren’t actually voting for anything. It’s all a sham by ArenaNet to make players feel like they have an impact on the world and to get them to log as many game hours as possible. I can’t believe so many of you are falling for it.

So, who have ArenaNet decided will win then?

At this point, I would say Evon’s chance is big. ArenaNet gave the Abbadon fractual to him and now still seem to have a strong favorism over him.

They actually have created and supported threads promoting Evon!
As a WoW player, I am sensing a Horde Favorism 2.0

and it tastes…wrong. In a game that player choices matter (to an extent)

Jahiliyya.7095:

Kazera.3162:

Evon is the obvious no brainer choice.
Not sure what’s making people vote Kiel, when a reactor explosion is not nearly as cool (or important) as is the rendering of Abaddon in GW2.
If it wasn’t for Abaddon, most of the big events in GW1 would have not even happened.
Which, might I remind, those events make up what GW2 is in many ways.

A reactor explosion that changed the very fabric of Tyria…. you know… the very thing that make up what Gw2 is….

#IStandWithEllen

Hahaha. Show me how that reactor explosion changed as much in Tyria as Abaddon.
Fact is, you can’t. Because Abaddon is the reason why GW1 started like it did and ended like it did, and GW2 is still showing many remnants of his work.The reason why Ascalon is a ruin across the plains, the Titans which the Flame Legion Shamans considered their gods and was also in part responsible for the Charr invasion of the human nations, he was also the reason why Orr sank beneath the waves, the reason why the Jade Sea was literally jade, and you know I can just keep going because there is a LOT more. He was behind the madness in all 3 of the main “campaigns” of GW1 and yet the only time we ever got to SEE him was when we go to battle with him while he is still imprisoned. That to me is not enough. It’s not enough for a lot of people. This is a chance for us to hopefully see him prior to imprisonment and rendered in GW2 graphics, it ought to be awesome. We’ve seen plenty of Inquest tech, labs, etc. We’ve seen a lot of Asuran anything since GW2 started, and even in GW1. Abaddon’s fractal would be something fresh considering it’s going to depict a time far before GW2’s present day, and according to lore there would be gods involved, too. So, bottom line is, fresh content vs content that will look much like what we’ve already been seeing.

I rest my case.

Ferik.3127:

At this point, I would say Evon’s chance is big. ArenaNet gave the Abbadon fractual to him and now still seem to have a strong favorism over him.

They actually have created and supported threads promoting Evon!
As a WoW player, I am sensing a Horde Favorism 2.0

and it tastes…wrong. In a game that player choices matter (to an extent)

And yet, based on the numbers ArenaNet have revealed (but then again, I suppose we should assume they are lying) Kiel is (or was) in the lead by 4%.

Almost 100 votes for evon today. I want him on 3 mill atleast.

<w1< hh

Edge.4180:

coryorth.5289:

*
Here’s some of the facts:
TLDR:
The 4 weeks doesn’t truly matter. Deals a deal, vote for what truly counts. Permanent Content
Abbadon: We get to see new stuff, discover things we’ll never see again since they’re in the past. Including a God. King Doric. And the Crystal Sea.
Reactor: Seeing the same stuff, and seeing things that will eventually get explained no matter what.

Your “facts” seem to be nothing but an awful lot of speculation.

Here’s a real “fact” :

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

..I’m hoping for Kiel. But I have a vested interest because my team will probably be working on the fractals. I had nothing to do with this content though.

To shed some light on my bias, our team brainstormed up a bunch of fractals for you guys to pick from and then we settled on the best two. I got pretty excited about Thaumanova, given what we intend for it to entail so I’m Kiel supporter all the way.

Abbadon will also be great if Evon wins though.

Sorry, but he sounds way more excited about the Thaumanova Reactor. I like the obligatory consolation prize pep-talk about Abbadon at the end.

You crack me up. You quoted this one dev to me and now to this fellow. That’s not a fact. That’s an opinion. The players are deciding what is going to happen, not that dev. Your ONLY argument against anyone advocating why Evon is the better choice is this dev’s quote.

Oh, and as for your “lot of speculation” thing. That post is actually full of real hard facts. Not speculation. And based on what we know about the lore of both the reactor and Abaddon, that is probably one of the best arguments anyone’s laid forth in this thread thus far.

Jahiliyya.7095:

Kazera.3162:

Evon is the obvious no brainer choice.
Not sure what’s making people vote Kiel, when a reactor explosion is not nearly as cool (or important) as is the rendering of Abaddon in GW2.
If it wasn’t for Abaddon, most of the big events in GW1 would have not even happened.
Which, might I remind, those events make up what GW2 is in many ways.

A reactor explosion that changed the very fabric of Tyria…. you know… the very thing that make up what Gw2 is….

#IStandWithEllen

Very fabric of the world :o Random mobs spawning from random portals at a small room :o fabric of the world :o

A god losing a battle at the gates of heaven falling down with such devastation that turns a sea to desert and makes the desolation that poisonous sulfur wasteland that it is now, later reshaping half of the Canthan continent and almost unleashing the Nightfall.. idk.. yeah, that reactor explosion has so much ties to thelore and makes up what GW2 is.

Without Abaddon, I tell you what GW2 is: humans prosper in Kryta, Orr and Ascalon, charr legions did never unite, they either got extinct by inner war + the push of Ascalonians, or lost even more ground.

(maybe)Gods still reside in Arah. When Zhaitan rises, Orr previals, and the gods have a fight with him.

Cantha – Kaineng isn’t the ghetto it is now, the Jade Sea is really a sea, te Echowald forest isn’t from stone.

Elona: palawa joko nevergot released, and Korna, Istan and vabbi still stand.

I wish A-net would have given Evon more backstory & character introduction through events before setting up the election. Since they didn’t, many see Evon as just some evil, greedy, ‘nameless’ charr battling for supremacy over a well-known character.

draxynnic.3719:

Razor.9872:

I’m sure you’re aware that he succeeded. They succeeded in doing everything. That is, until it was Logan’s turn to play guard. Then he bailed to help a queen who ended up doing most of the work herself. And lets not forget about Riona. She almost killed the chances of Charr and Humans working out a truce. Admit it — Humans can rarely be trusted.

According to Sea of Sorrows, the chance of working a truce got killed twice during that period. One wonders just how many potential truces got killed due to someone’s stupidity over the centuries?

On Logan… he was in a catch-22. He had obligations in two different places, which he could not fulfill simultaneously. He’d have let someone down whatever he did (and if you read EoD more carefully, it’s apparent that without his intervention, the Branded would have got to Jennah before she deus-ex-magica’d the battle. Not every spell is a combat spell with a casting time of seconds, after all). In fact, he left hoping that he’d be able to handle Jennah’s problem in time to return for the fight, and thus cover both.

Seriously, I’d like to see what the other members of Destiny’s Edge, or you armchair analysts, would have done in a similar position.

On humans being trusted in general: Some humans can’t be trusted. Some charr also can’t be trusted. Same with norn, asura, and sylvari. No one race has a monopoly on proverbial rotten apples.

Would killing Kralkatorrik not have severely weakened his minions attacking Ebonhawke? He was being too shortsighted. he should have thought of the long-run, and what ridding Tyria of an elder dragon would mean for the land. The human Queen is important, for sure, but not compared to the death of and elder dragon’s tyranny.

Kazera.3162:

Edge.4180:

coryorth.5289:

*
Here’s some of the facts:
TLDR:
The 4 weeks doesn’t truly matter. Deals a deal, vote for what truly counts. Permanent Content
Abbadon: We get to see new stuff, discover things we’ll never see again since they’re in the past. Including a God. King Doric. And the Crystal Sea.
Reactor: Seeing the same stuff, and seeing things that will eventually get explained no matter what.

Your “facts” seem to be nothing but an awful lot of speculation.

Here’s a real “fact” :

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

..I’m hoping for Kiel. But I have a vested interest because my team will probably be working on the fractals. I had nothing to do with this content though.

To shed some light on my bias, our team brainstormed up a bunch of fractals for you guys to pick from and then we settled on the best two. I got pretty excited about Thaumanova, given what we intend for it to entail so I’m Kiel supporter all the way.

Abbadon will also be great if Evon wins though.

Sorry, but he sounds way more excited about the Thaumanova Reactor. I like the obligatory consolation prize pep-talk about Abbadon at the end.

You crack me up. You quoted this one dev to me and now to this fellow. That’s not a fact. That’s an opinion. The players are deciding what is going to happen, not that dev. Your ONLY argument against anyone advocating why Evon is the better choice is this dev’s quote.

Oh, and as for your “lot of speculation” thing. That post is actually full of real hard facts. Not speculation. And based on what we know about the lore of both the reactor and Abaddon, that is probably one of the best arguments anyone’s laid forth in this thread thus far.

You’ve managed to completely miss the point.

Nobody is arguing that we know something about the lore of both the reactor and Abaddon. What you have zero clue about, however, is what a fractal instance on either would entail. Any assumptions about either is speculation.

What we do actually know for a fact is that one of the developers that will be working on the fractals is “..pretty excited about Thaumanova, given what (they) intend for it to entail..”.

So, you can sit there and write a 50 page case study on why you believe “fractal reactor = yawn” and “fractal Abaddon = best thing since sliced bread”, but in the end you’re just speculating (with great bias, I might add) and not putting forth anything factual. In fact, such speculation flies completely in the fact of the one fact you do actually have about these two fractals: that a developer is pretty excited about their plans for a Thaumanova fractal, describing it as one of the two best ideas they’ve come up with for new fractals.

If that to you screams “yawn”, then you’re being a) silly and b) ridiculously biased. Try making an argument that doesn’t involve spinning opinions as facts.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Fellow Evon supporters I know Kiel is ahead but while she has the numbers we have the determination, Join me this Sunday and lets buy, farm and steal every ticket we can and show once and for all that this do-gooder Kiel has no chance.

This aggression will not stand.

This message brought to you by Citizens of Tyira For a Better Tommorrow, Tommorrow.

The reason she’s ahead is that she’s human. You pit the most popular race against the least popular race. how is Evon gonna win?

DarksunG.9537:

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Fellow Evon supporters I know Kiel is ahead but while she has the numbers we have the determination, Join me this Sunday and lets buy, farm and steal every ticket we can and show once and for all that this do-gooder Kiel has no chance.

This aggression will not stand.

This message brought to you by Citizens of Tyira For a Better Tommorrow, Tommorrow.

The reason she’s ahead is that she’s human. You pit the most popular race against the least popular race. how is Evon gonna win?

promise you awesome and cool things and never deliver on them… luring you into a false sense of security……. like all the politicians in world currently

Razor.9872:

I’m sure you’re aware that he succeeded. They succeeded in doing everything. That is, until it was Logan’s turn to play guard. Then he bailed to help a queen who ended up doing most of the work herself. And lets not forget about Riona. She almost killed the chances of Charr and Humans working out a truce. Admit it — Humans can rarely be trusted.

The fact that he didnt, he just managed to tap into the realm of the dragons corruption (same thing the pale tree did with a little piece of zhais corruption to give us a vision of orr) and a golem controlling his actions, no different from us vs claw of jormag or sunless. Also lets not forget that unlike the other races (well except the forgotten/previous race that held the role the humans now hold against the ED), no other race saved the world and not only once, but 6 times over the course of around 10 years.

Archmortal.1027:

Let’s just put it this way. This is ALREADY happening in the current, playable world. Look at the Shadow Behemoth and any other shadow/chaos beasts. Thaumanova’s effects on the world are playable already, and independent of a possible fractal investigating the incident, the effects and lore surrounding the aftermath can still be built on.

Just because chaos beasts look similar to underworld shades doesn’t mean they are same. And it certainly doesn’t mean behemoth is out there in tyria because of some pesky asura blowing some pesky reactor. It could be here because apparently Grenth found better toys and reapers still being bunch of whiny girls, having little to no control over underworld. Be thankful that you have that behemoth classified as “playful puppy” by underworld standards and don’t have Dhuum over your doorstep, banning your necromancy and swinging his scythe with eerie giggles.

DarksunG.9537:

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Fellow Evon supporters I know Kiel is ahead but while she has the numbers we have the determination, Join me this Sunday and lets buy, farm and steal every ticket we can and show once and for all that this do-gooder Kiel has no chance.

This aggression will not stand.

This message brought to you by Citizens of Tyira For a Better Tommorrow, Tommorrow.

The reason she’s ahead is that she’s human. You pit the most popular race against the least popular race. how is Evon gonna win?

Why do you automatically assume it’s a Human vs Charr thing? Maybe it’s due to the fact that Kiel is portrayed as a decent individual and a hero, while Gnashblade is portrayed as a scheming businessman only interested in the bottom line.

Maybe players just want to see a decent individual holding a political position for a change (even if it is make-believe) instead of having art mirror life. 10% all time low public approval rating on Congress, you know. Too many Gnashblade’s there and not enough Kiel’s, frankly.

Wait…

Dragon Bash.
Dragon Ball.
Rock the Vote…

Dragon
Dragon
Rock.

Dragon, Dragon, Rock the Dragon…

Dragon B~ SUPER SAIYAN CONFIRMED FOR GW2!!!!

BobbyStein.2315:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Just ask yourselves if you really want to elect a fancy cat with a lead designer in his pocket. We’ll just have double up our support for Kiel on SATURDAY.

Brought to you by the people against smelly animals in office.

This man speaks the truth.

You know you should vote for a character when the lead writer is supporting her. Why? Because story development demands it.

No one like Kiel, and for very good reason. Simply, her character is weak, it lacks dimension and emotion, so lets make her a little more complex and interesting by giving her a council seat.

Winds.3087:

Just because chaos beasts look similar to underworld shades doesn’t mean they are same. And it certainly doesn’t mean behemoth is out there in tyria because of some pesky asura blowing some pesky reactor. It could be here because apparently Grenth found better toys and reapers still being bunch of whiny girls, having little to no control over underworld. Be thankful that you have that behemoth classified as “playful puppy” by underworld standards and don’t have Dhuum over your doorstep, banning your necromancy and swinging his scythe with eerie giggles.

Well then you’ll have to take it upon yourself to make this correction to basically every single Kiel supporter talking about the lore of the Reactor. Pretty much all of them are using what I just said as what makes it so interesting to them (and then assuming we’ll see that in the past before these things would have been possible, operating under the assumption that the Reactor is indeed responsible for it). I’ve yet to see a Kiel supporter explaining the lore of the Reactor that DIDN’T harp about how it’s causing such things as the Shadow Behemoth all across Tyria.

The logic being used is basically what’s going on at the Reactor presently: things are just being summoned into Tyria at random, so the distinction between Shadow and Chaos beasts is moot. Elementals and naturally-occurring wildlife are also being brought/pulled into Tyria by this phenomena.

inazuma.7021:

Razor.9872:

BobbyStein.2315:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Just ask yourselves if you really want to elect a fancy cat with a lead designer in his pocket. We’ll just have double up our support for Kiel on SATURDAY.

Brought to you by the people against smelly animals in office.

This man speaks the truth.

Remind me which Edge of Destiny member screwed over the others…oh right…the human -_-

Oh please, all Logan did was restore party balance. Six is too many for a dungeon run.

AND he is a Guardian. Sooooo I think Logan did a great thing.

Zacchary.6183:

inazuma.7021:

Razor.9872:

BobbyStein.2315:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Just ask yourselves if you really want to elect a fancy cat with a lead designer in his pocket. We’ll just have double up our support for Kiel on SATURDAY.

Brought to you by the people against smelly animals in office.

This man speaks the truth.

Remind me which Edge of Destiny member screwed over the others…oh right…the human -_-

Oh please, all Logan did was restore party balance. Six is too many for a dungeon run.

AND he is a Guardian. Sooooo I think Logan did a great thing.

Lol, this just made my day.

Edge.4180:

Why do you automatically assume it’s a Human vs Charr thing? Maybe it’s due to the fact that Kiel is portrayed as a decent individual and a hero, while Gnashblade is portrayed as a scheming businessman only interested in the bottom line.

because most people probably don’t even know what the vote is about. just like mmo devs know that most players don’t read quests text, most players skip cutscenes & just get to the clickies. So I don’t think that’s as much a factor at race.

We know for a fact that Charr are the least popular race & we know for a fact that Humans are the most popular race. On top of that they then made one the “good guy” & one the “bad guy”. It’s very VERY skewed, but not because Anet is trying to “squeeze more money” out of us like the OP said.

The fact is that 3 million people bought the game. And… how many people write or read forums?
That’s why Kiel is winning and should win.

At least my votes are coming to her.
If I were an evon fan, i would stop voting him, or even waste gold on him. because no matter what, he is loosing and he will loose.

people knows who is kiel and she is likeable. people dont know who is evon, and the little we know is that he is an assassin, a lier, and a thief. This election was done just form the start.

Archmortal.1027:

Well then you’ll have to take it upon yourself to make this correction to basically every single Kiel supporter talking about the lore of the Reactor. Pretty much all of them are using what I just said as what makes it so interesting to them (and then assuming we’ll see that in the past before these things would have been possible, operating under the assumption that the Reactor is indeed responsible for it). I’ve yet to see a Kiel supporter explaining the lore of the Reactor that DIDN’T harp about how it’s causing such things as the Shadow Behemoth all across Tyria.

The logic being used is basically what’s going on at the Reactor presently: things are just being summoned into Tyria at random, so the distinction between Shadow and Chaos beasts is moot. Elementals and naturally-occurring wildlife are also being brought/pulled into Tyria by this phenomena.

I’m yet to see anyone’s supporter that doesn’t think his own wild theories are ultimate truth.

Singer.8740:

Sleel.8365:

Enrixce.8471:

The reason Kiel is ahead is cus Evons bonus reward isn’t that great as it still makes us use more money. All my friends think that Kiel will reduce WP cost by 50% but im pretty sure it will be 10% max.
I’m only voting for Evon as i think he has better ideas than Kiel. Kiel doesn’t know anything about politics she should stay at the frontlines of the Lionguard as she is now

Lucien Razorbow says Vote for Evon

What the hell does “politics” have to do with anything. This isn’t like we have candidates who are going to be making laws and motions to affect how we play the game. It’s a mechanic to introduce one of two fractals and either cheaper keys or waypoints. One has better ideas, the other should stay on the front lines. Crap. This isn’t role playing that has a point in what this event is going to introduce into the game. And even if it was, people who ‘know about politics" are the ones who milk it for it’s corruption, while patting on your head for being a good little mark, like the politicians we actually have irl.

Except it was confirmed that which one you vote for will have far reaching consequences on future living story updates outside of “whichever fractal I think is awesome and the other one is kitten / kitten and mabie kitten ieherp.” So choose carefully who you vote for. Do you want the strait arrow or the business man to be deciding living story from now on, think about it and choose what you like best.

Neither one decides kitten. The devs do.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Brought to you by the people against smelly animals in office.

dats wacist; i demand a ban xP

Lucky.9421:

But that’s where we need Kiel, on the battlefield.

What battlefield? The Lionguard are cops. They protect LA and the trade routes. The only time they fight anything is if those are attacked. It’s not like they are part of the Pact. They don’t help the Krytans with the centaurs, they don’t help the charr with the Flame Legion. So…. What battlefield?

VOTE; THE ROCK!

:D

@Archmortal: Actually, you’re the first person I’ve seen suggesting that the Thaumanova Reactor and the Shadow Behemoth are connected. They’re not – I’m pretty sure that Godslost Swamp became ‘Godslost’ well before the reactor explosion.

@Sleel: There are Lionguard in the Pact, although officially they’re ‘on loan’ to the Vigil. There are also characters who are members of the Seraph and other national militaries

Northlander.4619:

draxynnic.3719:

Now, you may say that Logan didn’t know all this… but the third paragraph at least is something he’d have been aware of.

Logan didn’t know all that and couldn’t have known all that. Also it still shows he is willing to place his own race above others and thinks he is important enough that he, and humanity, are the only one capable of saving the world.

I acknowledged that he didn’t know the future… but neither do we know that the future would have been better off if he had made that trade. And as I said, he would have known about the political state of Kryta, and his regard for the queen is probably taking into account her ability and actions as a ruler (you don’t fall in love with rulers you hate, after all).

Razor.9872:

Would killing Kralkatorrik not have severely weakened his minions attacking Ebonhawke? He was being too shortsighted. he should have thought of the long-run, and what ridding Tyria of an elder dragon would mean for the land. The human Queen is important, for sure, but not compared to the death of and elder dragon’s tyranny.

So, are you and Northlander advocating the trading of nations for dragons, then? Let’s take that to it’s (il)logical conclusion, shall we?

Let’s start with Kralkatorrik. Logan stays to fight Kralkatorrik. Jennah is slain at Ebonhawke, Kryta falls into civil war, and between its own fighting and exploitation of the fighting by centaurs, Kryta is destroyed.

Next up, we get an attack on Zhaitain. Just as it’s looking like it’s close to succeeding, word comes that the Sons of Svanir have decided its time to make a big push to take over Hoelbrak and the rest of the Shiverpeaks, and all the norn in Orr (and any other help that can be spared) are desperately needed to return to stop this. Said norn respond with “kitten you, we have a dragon to kill, and it will be LEGEN… wait for it… DARY!” Zhaitan is killed, but apart from those norn that survived the fight in Orr or that were in other lands, norn have been rendered extinct.

Obviously, this makes Jormag the next on the list. The remaining forces of whatever replaces the Pact in this alternate reality recruit as much of the charr forces as they can, push up through Blood Legion territory, and march into the Far Shiverpeaks from the east. Miraculously, they manage to locate Jormag’s lair, but just as they’re making the final push, the Molten Alliance (with all the strength of the dredge behind it, since the dredge evacuated the Shiverpeaks when Jormag took over) rises up in the charr territories, and Rytlock receives the order to return. Now, as all the Logan-haters are sure Rytlock would do as a good charr, he sees his surrogate warband, Destiny’s Edge and the anti-dragon coalition they’re leading, as more important than his legion (wtf?) and refuses to let the charr troops return home. So when they do, it’s to find that the Flame Legion-dredge alliance now hold the entire charr territory in an iron grip.

(continued next page)