Guild Wars 2

Orr has a problem. Namely, most of it’s going to waste. Players at the level cap naturally clump in Cursed Shore, it being the only 80 level zone in the game. This leaves both Malchor’s Leap and Straits of Devestation largely deserted, and a population of level 80 players becoming increasingly bored with running the same events in Cursed Shore over and over again. There’s plenty of excellent events just next door to them, but since they’re lower level, they’re understandably neglected.

What seems puzzling to me is that Orr seems to be designed to be one gigantic meta event, starting at Trinity Fort and working all the way to Arah. Of course it doesn’t currently work that way, because the events in Malchor’s Leap and Straits of Devestation have no impact on Cursed Shore, aside from disabling temples, and are certainly not required to reach the final zone.

I believe there is a way to kill two dragons with one airship here: expanding the end-game and getting players more interested, not to mention spreading players out a bit more so things don’t feel so crowded. My proposals are as follows:

1. All Orr becomes level 80. The simplest way to achieve this without large scale redoing of the zones would be to simply scale all players entering Orr up to level 80, same as WvW. Then it’s just a far simpler matter of changing mob levels. Loot should be virtually unchanged, and crafting nodes are already max level.

2. Progression to the next zone requires completion of the dynamic events in the previous zone. For example, before players can even move into Malchor’s Leap, they must invade the Straits of Devestation alongside the Pact, and fight a three front war all the way across the zone. Orr should be where the biggest and best meta-events take place, and I can’t think of a better one that a three zone war front.

3. Holding camps will be of vital importance, because undead counterattacks can push you right out of a zone. Players will have to protect their lines of supply in earlier zones, ensuring that Pact outposts remain secure. Ultimately, I’d love to see players given the option of upgrading Pact outposts just like in WvW, and have supply caravans making their way forward (or supply choppers for that matter).

4. Every 2 weeks, when the WvW resets, so does Orr. Players must start over, reinvading the zones and securing their positions.

Frankly, this seems to me to be the original intention for Orr; one giant struggle to press into Orr. Redone, these zones could be so much more than they are now. The events across the zone deserve more attention than they get, and level 80’s are desperate for more content. This seems to me to be one of the easiest ways of achieveing that goal, rather than making all new content.

I really support this idea, it seems pretty awesome to have it as one huge meta event throughout the 3 zones.

This would create a problem with Arah though, since it would be locked for a while. This would probably be bearable if the complete push into Orr took about 2 days, considering it resets every 2 weeks. I would absolutely LOVE something as large-scale as this.

Also,

I believe there is a way to kill two dragons with one airship here

I c wat u did thar.

why is it a problem to go to a lower level region once you reach lvl 80?
I clearly don’t understand why people constantly complain about it.

clegane.5861:

why is it a problem to go to a lower level region once you reach lvl 80?
I clearly don’t understand why people constantly complain about it.

Smaller Carrot… bigger stick.

That’s the primary reason.

A slight modification to #1 though, up to level 80 if you are level 70+ don’t want people getting rushed there for easy leveling. I love the idea of having to maintain a complete supply chain makes perfect sense in context too!

It’s a bad idea. The reason people farm Cursed Shore is not because it’s level 80, it’s because there’s around 15 events all clustered so densely together that it’s literally possible to participate in three of them at the same time. On top of all that you also get updates on another five events while you’re there. You don’t find events that dense anywhere else.

The best alternative is actually Straits of Devastation. In fact, I suspect it might even be superior to Cursed Shore. The caveat is that the cycle there is much more complex since it requires zig-zag waypointing all over the map. Since it’s much easier to farm cursed shore, you see few people taking the extra effort to figure out the Straits of Devastation event cycle.

Besides the up leveling, I completely support this. Make it so that we have to do events in the “lesser” levels (of which those currently in the ’70s could help out with), just to retake Cursed Shore. It would make all the fights seem like they are accomplishing something, even if it is just window dressing.

Also, please, please, fix the waypoints on Cursed Shore.

I love the idea of making events unlock more parts of the map. But how could you implement it sever-wide?

I agree on this bc things often feel pointless and events are all like cookie cutter molds all the same and extremely frequent and repetitive.

Forgive me for saying this but I think it’s ridiculous that people are just there to farm and repetitively do the same things over, I get bored just watching people do it. I mean yes you need your resources for stuff but somehow I don’t think having it all one big farm a good system. One thing as mentioned how no one is elsewhere and there is a huge army of players in one spot for back to back events… We can accomplish alot more if we actually participated in more of the map. Half the problem is this lack of decent purposeful events and system the other half is that most ppl are simply only interested in pursuing personal gain of crafting, item, gold, karma all just for material goods… To me there is really no point in this. Especially after you have the best possible you can get.. Then what?

Lots of 80s are getting bored tho so we need new maps, new events, new systems in place fast. I feel like I’ve hit a brick wall or a glass ceiling.

I agree with the OP but idk if it should keep resetting although it make much sense. But to me even resetting every two weeks would make it pointless and redundant. Personally I think there may be no way to accomplish this but the world and maps should be an ongoing evolution and change where the map and history is actually permanently changing. We should be able to invade Orr and then instead of resetting, I guess the undead army invades us back, and increase the difficulty of the enemy til we fail and get pushed back.

Then that to me makes sense and perhaps it will be frustrating but imo a fruitful experience. And even more people will rally together and really try to prolong our occupation of Orr especially for all the resources avail. And constant mobs and new mobs to take down/farm. Ultimately then it will be in our hands to control

In these cases as OPs example has it it would be more realistic militarily and can have actual tactics. Like the personal story we can also cut off the dragons food source and try to delay the dragon killing eyes and stuff. NPCs can also have permanent evolution like after a while a NPC commander that had been coordinating the pact events is killed and turned into a risen champion. These would be interesting and makes us feel like we are part of something permanent.

Those are my thoughts which I know is quite a lot of work for any dev team but I came to gw2 thinking it would be awesome because it’s dynamic but just find cookie cutter routines

@takatsu: The reason people farm CS is for legendary.

At OP point 1: Time to run my level 10 character straight Orr and start farming end game.

The problem with the OP ideas is that people want a constant and reliable area to farm. If people get forced out of their farming spot, then a lot of people will come here and complain. The other thing is that people want to do the final dungeon for whatever reason they feel like doing it for, and if players cannot do it whenever they feel like it, then they will come here and complain… (CoF is already super annoying with this as half the time it is undercontest and the events take forever to complete)

Diviner.7405:

@takatsu: The reason people farm CS is for legendary.

At OP point 1: Time to run my level 10 character straight Orr and start farming end game.

The problem with the OP ideas is that people want a constant and reliable area to farm. If people get forced out of their farming spot, then a lot of people will come here and complain. The other thing is that people want to do the final dungeon for whatever reason they feel like doing it for, and if players cannot do it whenever they feel like it, then they will come here and complain… (CoF is already super annoying with this as half the time it is undercontest and the events take forever to complete)

I specifically mentioned that the upscaling idea was the simplest solution to making all of Orr level 80. Simple solutions have far more chance of being implimented, but of course, if Arenanet was willing, they could alter the personal story missions and upscale Orr.

I don’t see anything wrong with Arah being the big “carrot” for managing to complete Orr. There’s plenty of other dungeons in the game. Up the rewards for completing it maybe. As for farming, bases would constantly be under attack right across the three zones, plenty of opportunity for good karma and rewards there. Besides, if WvWvW is anything to go by, players seem to be far more willing to engage in fun events than farm mindlessly.

Eh have all the temples sell obsidian shards. That’ll get folks comming.

I don’t know why people keep crowding at one place, but this problem should be solved by finding out the real cause for this, instead of some random guesswork.
I mean, for example, if they are farming there for rare material for their legendary weapons or something, the solution could be to drop these materials for lvl80 characters all over the map as reward in hidden boss fights / chests.

As for me, my brain is constantly blown by finding nice hidden places and exciting events all around the maps, I could not imagine for my life why I would not keep searching for these once I reach lvl 80.
Of course, it was actually a bit of a disappointment eg. when a very well hidden minidungeon with a very tough mini boss dropped only 2 worthless white items in its reward chest. So maybe it’s understandable that people have better things to do than to look for these!

But if the reward would scale up to the player’s level, maybe lvl80 characters would be all over all maps just for fun, while they also receive the loot they need.

Yes I know it’s for legendaries (and other things) , am I supposed to be impressed? Lol I still think is pointless. So what if you have twilight or sunrise or even eternity? When the world itself and the events are already redundant and you’ve done practically everything possible in pve at least until new maps and events come out. To me it’s still a pointless chase, just maybe cuz it’s cool, even the stats are the same. I know people pursue it but farming all that but the world and Orr in particular in this case is still pointless. People run dungeons over and over to get a few more tokens for dungeon gear, but the question still is what happens after? And the whole idea that it feels like players exist just to acquire goods…

clegane.5861:

why is it a problem to go to a lower level region once you reach lvl 80?
I clearly don’t understand why people constantly complain about it.

You go to a low level zone and do events, ill go to an 80 zone and do them.
We will see who ends up with more money, karma, and most importantly – level 80 yellows.

Until the devs find an equal way to reward people for doing events in ALL areas of the game at 80, the majority will stick to where the rewards are best. Where rewards are suited towards the needs of their character.

I for one know I need the following at 80 for what I want in the game:
1. Ecto’s
2. Coin
3. Tier 5 and 6 mats for crafting

Cant get ecto’s in zones that dont drop 75+ yellow items
Cant get tier 5 and 6 mats in most low level zones
You can get coin in low level zones, but the amount is drastically lower than high level zones, so its very inefficient to farm coin this way.

When the devs figure out a way to reward level 80s the above things, for doing events in lower level zones, ill be more than happy to roam all over the world doing them.

scaling up the rewards for lvl80 characters should do the trick easily… it may not make that much sense thematically, but it would even out the players amongst the regions at least. (theoretically.) It would still make more sense than to see the 80 zone crowded and the rest empty(ish)!

I still don’t understand why it’s all about the rewards? Why is everyone still talking about rewards? Rares, exotics, legendaries etc is all good and all but that’s not the point of this thread. Is that the only reason you play the game? What happens after is the question. I want to bring it back to OPs post, the land of Orr should have a lot more purpose, be a lot more dynamic and involved and be interesting. Rather than a place where u go to one spot and just farm stuff. There should be natural progression, the involvement of players makes or breaks the history, the storyline and the environment around. The current end game feels like its nothing special, that’s the issue here

clegane.5861:

why is it a problem to go to a lower level region once you reach lvl 80?
I clearly don’t understand why people constantly complain about it.

crap loot

I want both a fun experience and I want it to be profitable in terms of the game.

“the land of Orr should have a lot more purpose, be a lot more dynamic and involved and be interesting. Rather than a place where u go to one spot and just farm stuff. There should be natural progression, the involvement of players makes or breaks the history, the storyline and the environment around. The current end game feels like its nothing special, that’s the issue here”

Precisely. My suggestion is really aimed at making the end game of GW2 something truly engaging, and a two week long battle across three zones sounds a hell of a lot more interesting than running Plinx for the 80th time, or even farming a dungeon. The beauty of it is that it would satisfy the farmers as well, since they’d be experiencing even more events than before, and it would help players avoid the DR system by forcing them to be moving around zones as the front lines expand and contract.

that’s a valid suggestion and it could be beautiful if implemented well.
however, I think ‘expanding the end game’ could also mean: give players reason to travel around the world at level 80, not just stand in one place and farm. that would really be a win-win situation for everyone.
It seems to be clear from the responses that players don’t travel because the loot is crap in lower level regions. that is something that could be easily fixed.
Or perhaps some additional materials could be invented, one for each region that is unique to that region, which is given as reward for completing events there, and these would be necessary for some flashy new legendaries. (yes it does sound a bit forced but it’s the best I could come up with now.)

I love Galen’s idea! That would be awesome!

AsteriskCGY.5931:

Eh have all the temples sell obsidian shards. That’ll get folks comming.

If you need to bribe players with specific items to get them to play certain parts of the game, then those parts of the game probably need to be improved.

People should play in Orr (and other regions) because they are fun, not because they are the only source of item X, which they need to get item Z.

That kind of game design (“must go through boring gameplay to get some virtual reward at the end”) is precisely what has been making people move away from “other MMOs”.

Orr, as it exists now, feels like a drag. The landscape is interesting, but it’s covered in an almost completely uniform “blanket” of identical mobs whose sole purpose seems to be to slow you down as you try to move from A to B. There’s no real feeling of risk or awe, just annoyance and endless repetition.

Imagine how much better it would be if it alternated between desolate areas with no mobs at all, pockets of mobs so dense that you’d feel scared to go near them, areas that look empty but where dozens of mobs can suddenly rise out of the ground, areas that have no mobs but are covered with a poison cloud that makes it impossible to remain there for long, etc.. In other words, a variety of challenges (with actual risk involved), rather than just the current blanket of crippling / slowing mobs.

I don’t dislike the idea of multi-zone events, but I think it would really just be equivalent to making the Cursed Shore 3x bigger. It wouldn’t solve the core problem, which is that the gameplay in those areas is simply not fun.

As to making Arah inaccessible every two weeks, well, in most servers that seems to already happen, since the required events keep getting stuck.

^ well said, Orr should not be about sources of item or material, it shouldn’t be bribing players to play there but fundamentally must be interesting and fulfilling by itself EVEN WITHOUT all the goodies, people just enjoy and feel accomplished being partof a big picture. The goodies should be EXTRA incentive on top of that to play there and stay moving about the level 80 maps. It’s important to get the stuff u need but first priority should be the actual place, storyline and events being really engaging regardless of what you’re getting.

Another way to see it is if u absolutely have all u can get including legendaries, that Orr is the place u want to return to to have fun with ur gear and feel like the game hasn’t ended yet and ur still part of something new and engaging and productive

I like the OP’s overall idea, and I think the dynamic push/pull effect could work very similarly to the Kurzick/Luxon border in Factions. This could be the PvE crossover of the concepts ANet implemented in WvW.

It seems apparent that Orr was intended as endgame content, so I agree that Orr should be for level 80 characters. However, I don’t think level boosting is necessary. There are other zones in the game that scale up gradually all the way to level 80. For example, the Charr zones have a clear level progression that eventually puts you in Frostgorge Sound. Plenty of opportunities for leveling a character to 80 are already there, regardless of what level Orr is tweaked for.

I like the OP’s idea. I hope Anet does something like this. I know they have lots of “secret projects” underway…

There is no need to make all three zones level 80. Level scaling works in this game. If level 80 players aren’t playing in the other two zones, it’s not because they aren’t level 80, it’s because they lack in the rewards dept. for players at the level cap.

Putting all the highest tier crafting mats and resource nodes in Cursed Shore is part of the problem. Who ever thought that was a good idea?

If level 80s could get almost as much progress towards their “end game progression” in all the level 70-80 zones in the game, level 80s would be less concentrated in one zone.

The rest of your ideas are interesting, but it would make more sense for the lower level zones in Orr to become more rewarding than they currently are for level 80s, rather than trying to scale everyone else up to level 80.

I’ve chosen not to play the game as if an “end game gear grind” is a necessary part of the game. I still play my level 80, but I spend more time playing in the broader game world than I do playing in Orr.

So many level 80s swarming Cursed Shore shows that most players have not made the paradigm shift away from the “end game grind is the end all be all goal” mentality to the “now, the entire game world is my playground” frame of mind.

Of course, Arenanet didn’t help in this regard when they panicked and introduced a steep end game grind “for those who want it”. It’s obvious that many people who don’t really want it and don’t like it feel compelled to participate in it because they don’t really get that there is an alternative way to play a level 80 character in this game.

For me, I play GW2 like some massive Skyrim, rather than playing it with Cursed Shore and Explorable Dungeon grinds as a substitute for the “same old, same old” Raid based “end game”. I think I’m playing the game as it was originally intended, but I fully understand why I’m probably a rare exception.

Anyway, if all of Orr was seen as rewarding, there would be no reason for all the level 80s to ignore the other two zones. No need to level scale anyone up, which would just create it’s own problems with even more people rushing to reach Orr and making it their sole focus of play.

Gadzooks.4687:

Cant get ecto’s in zones that dont drop 75+ yellow items

actually you can get ectos from lvl 68+ rare items