Guild Wars 2

You know, Everquest 2 had the exact same system. Digital trading card packs that had cool looking mounts, house items, and other things that were cosmetic. But the chances at getting the best ones were extremely rare. I spent hundreds of dollars trying to get some things, but I never did. Do you see my jumping up and down and stomping my feet like a 2 year old at Sony? No. Why is that?

"

I really don’t pity anyone who wasted ridiculous amounts of money on keys. I see a lot of complaints there was a lack of solid information regarding the chests. Not once were you told you’d be guaranteed festive items from these chests OR that the drop rate would be low. The only solid information you had was that you would have a CHANCE of getting festive items.

So based off that lack of information you’re so readily complaining about, after the fact, you went ahead and gambled a decent amount of money away. Completely your choice to do and I don’t think anyone should be forced into a corner and apologize for your irresponsibility.

You wanted festive skins? Should have went with the things you knew were guaranteed like the town outfits or mini pets instead of taking a chance." slapdot.3760

The problem with that is, it means Anet wasted their time in developing those skins, or indeed the black lion chests at all. If the only way you have of selling a product is to tart it up with a chance to have something new, actually give them a real chance or they’ll never buy them again.

Things aren’t looking good for the BLC Christmas editions with Wreath focus and Candy Cane pistols at this rate.

Hughs.6549:

Rainfall.4017

Oh my god. It’s hard to keep my temper now because of you people.

“A CHANCE” as you claim this wonderful concept led to thousands of people spending real money for … nothing and now have a good reason to never spend a coin on this game again : )

This is a DISASTER for arenanet’s future. Don’t u get it ?

I didn’t buy anything but i totally understand them, not even a freaking candy in these chests? what a joke .. Remember that arenanet NEEDS these “stupid whiny” people’s money to create new content FOR YOU.

SAME BOAT HERE, see ?

This is what the people who flame payers dont get.

Stark.1350:

You know, Everquest 2 had the exact same system. Digital trading card packs that had cool looking mounts, house items, and other things that were cosmetic. But the chances at getting the best ones were extremely rare. I spent hundreds of dollars trying to get some things, but I never did. Do you see my jumping up and down and stomping my feet like a 2 year old at Sony? No. Why is that?

Because you are complacent and more concerned with trolling angry customers?

Coming from the viewpoint of someone not familiar with the typical spending habits of a MMOer, this furor is baffling to me. While I agree that this aspect of the Halloween event would have been more fun if there was more variety in BLC rewards, I think it’s patently unfair for anyone to say they were swindled, cheated, or misled by ArenaNet. For my own part, this didn’t strike me as an event where BLCs would be made so much greater that I should be compelled to buy keys, let alone a stack of keys, with the hopes of getting a skin. It just seemed like something that added a hint of excitement to the chests, but on the whole I expected to get the same sort of loot as usual.

The disappointment, obviously, is from those who jumped the gun on buying stacks of keys/gems in anticipation of getting skins and potentially some other loot, and either got very few special items or none at all. That said, I’ve seen some complaints levied by those who managed to recoup their investment through the TP, but are nevertheless complaining. That people sunk so much money into this within hours or perhaps even minutes of the update being released suggests to me that at least some of those people were trying to game the system – that is, trying to make a profit on skins while markets were still volatile, or getting gems at lower rates – and deservedly getting burned for it. The information is out there now: Halloween skins are rare, and there’s no other Halloween loot in the chests. The first fact can be taken by tracking the Halloween items on the TP, the second by opening just a few chests (to add to that, the update notes only explicitly mention the skins).

Given the enthusiasm for Halloween skins, though, it’s also likely that a lot of people were able to get their money’s worth, and perhaps even make a profit. The fact that a lot of people didn’t is the unfortunate reality of the lottery system. They, of course, will be the readiest to criticize but that doesn’t mean their criticism is fairly placed.

“You know, Everquest 2 had the exact same system. Digital trading card packs that had cool looking mounts, house items, and other things that were cosmetic. But the chances at getting the best ones were extremely rare. I spent hundreds of dollars trying to get some things, but I never did. Do you see my jumping up and down and stomping my feet like a 2 year old at Sony? No. Why is that?” Stark.1350

You do know Sony has killed every MMO it ever got its inept hands on right? They really are not something you should judge good MMO practice on.

Because I knew the risk going into it. I also knew the items were fluff – and had no affect on my game whatsoever EXCEPT to look cool. I don’t recall Sony having a gun to my head screaming at me to buy their fluff items.

If speaking common sense to rampaging children is trolling, well. I guess that’s trolling!

I feel sorry for everyone who spend a big portion of their money and didn’t get any skins. I was able to detain myself from buying any keys until I heard more about the drop rates, but this sounds really bad.

I hope the game designers take a lot of the feedback here and work on it to improve to make these kinds of events better, cause seriously, buying keys for a small drop rate must suck.

rwm.1453:

Hughs.6549:

Rainfall.4017

Oh my god. It’s hard to keep my temper now because of you people.

“A CHANCE” as you claim this wonderful concept led to thousands of people spending real money for … nothing and now have a good reason to never spend a coin on this game again : )

This is a DISASTER for arenanet’s future. Don’t u get it ?

I didn’t buy anything but i totally understand them, not even a freaking candy in these chests? what a joke .. Remember that arenanet NEEDS these “stupid whiny” people’s money to create new content FOR YOU.

SAME BOAT HERE, see ?

This is what the people who flame payers dont get.

It’s fairly obnoxious for people to think that just because Anet said the skins had “a chance” to drop from a chest it makes the whole situation okay.

It’s not comparable to a lottery, either. When people go in for the lottery, they expect not to win. They think “I’ll probably never, in my entire life, win the lottery – but there’s a small chance, and it costs hardly anything to enter, so I’ll give it a go”.

This is a carrot and stick – many people bought keys assuming that if they bought 5 keys for 450 gems, for example, they’d at least get one skin. I mean, come on – real money for a “chance” at something? That’s got to be a one in five chance, surely?

But this is GW2. In any other game, I would have expected the chance to be high (say, 50%), but based on Anet’s decisions in many other aspects of the game (for example, the very unforgiving RNG element of legendary precusors from the MF) I guessed it would be like this and unfortunately I was right.

Stark.1350:

Because I knew the risk going into it. I also knew the items were fluff – and had no affect on my game whatsoever EXCEPT to look cool. I don’t recall Sony having a gun to my head screaming at me to buy their fluff items.

If speaking common sense to rampaging children is trolling, well. I guess that’s trolling!

Repeatedly poking angry customers and referring to them as children is most definitely trolling. I’m glad you’re enjoying pouring more fuel on the fire.

ReginaBuenaobra.6953:

Thank you all very much for your feedback about this issue. We’ve already informed the team about all the concerns expressed in this thread, and they’ll look into it. Thanks again.

Thank you Tommo.1294 for putting this up. I was sure I looked through every page before I posted. I think more of us could stand to bring some of these quotes back into the mix when tempers are heated. After you commented on this quote I looked again and found it on page 7.

@ Regina
I do still think the original response could use some work. I will however admit I was wrong that you or Anet haven’t responded past that. I will do better to look more carefully, even in 20+ page threads, before I jump and apologize for doing so.

I know a lot of tempers are high right now. Let’s all try to keep in mind that it takes time to respond to issues properly. We have been informed that they are working on it (as well as other problems of players using the costumes to grief the festivities). Let’s try to leave it at that for now.

“Hey, everyone. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the team has taken on board your feedback and concerns.

We’d recommend not throwing away or selling the items you’ve been receiving in the Black Lion Chests, as we’ll be providing ways in which those items can be used to obtain Halloween-related items…

We’ll have further updates when they become available.

Thank you again for all your feedback" ReginaBuenaobra

That’s the good kind of response.

ReginaBuenaobra.6953:

Hey, everyone. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the team has taken on board your feedback and concerns.

We’d recommend not throwing away or selling the items you’ve been receiving in the Black Lion Chests, as we’ll be providing ways in which those items can be used to obtain Halloween-related items…

We’ll have further updates when they become available.

Thank you again for all your feedback.

Thank you Regina. Sounds promising. :-)

How do you use a bunch of Karma and experience boosters to get halloween items?

ozma.3498:

It’s fairly obnoxious for people to think that just because Anet said the skins had “a chance” to drop from a chest it makes the whole situation okay.

It’s not comparable to a lottery, either. When people go in for the lottery, they expect not to win. They think “I’ll probably never, in my entire life, win the lottery – but there’s a small chance, and it costs hardly anything to enter, so I’ll give it a go”.

This is a carrot and stick – many people bought keys assuming that if they bought 5 keys for 450 gems, for example, they’d at least get one skin. I mean, come on – real money for a “chance” at something? That’s got to be a one in five chance, surely?

But this is GW2. In any other game, I would have expected the chance to be high (say, 50%), but based on Anet’s decisions in many other aspects of the game (for example, the very unforgiving RNG element of legendary precusors from the MF) I guessed it would be like this and unfortunately I was right.

I expected not to find a skin. The keys still cost the same amount and the chests still give the loot they gave before Halloween. There was a part earlier in this thread about Girl Guide Cookies and groceries or something, I can’t be bothered to find it; the way I see this is that each chest you get gives you a chance at the Halloween skin sweepstakes, like buying a case of Coca-Cola when they have a contest going on. You’re not going to buy 50 cases of Coca-Cola with the hope of winning. I opened one chest and didn’t get any Halloween skin, I still get my regular rewards, end of story.

Thank you so much, this was a good way to pay off costumers Regina, /hope in ANET restored, for now :P

Interesting, so we could say convert all our BL tools etc and boosters to halloween stuff? (that’s basically mostly what i got from the chests – loads of tools/boosters).

If this is the case, interesting – very interesting. Just please make sure the amounts required suit what you can get.
—

How do you use a bunch of Karma and experience boosters to get halloween items?

Maybe they’ll give a vendor who gives out a set amount of tokens for each type of item (1 for a set of tool, 2 for a booster etc) and then you can convert 5 tokens for a 1hd weapon/armor skin and 10 tokens for a 2nd weapon skin (just a guess).

Or perhaps, drop x BL tools and Y BL boosters to get Z Halloween weapon in the forge.

Really the skins should be made accountbound and passed out at the closing event, like hats in GW1.

ReginaBuenaobra.6953:

We’d recommend not throwing away or selling the items you’ve been receiving in the Black Lion Chests, as we’ll be providing ways in which those items can be used to obtain Halloween-related items…

We’ll have further updates when they become available.

Thank you again for all your feedback.

This is an interesting solution. I’ve already seen posts about using crude salvage kits + Halloween items to make other Halloween items in the Mystic Forge. Obviously that’s a lower tier, but if you made temporary recipes for mystery tonics, Black Lion gathering tools, boosters, etc, that would probably make sense. I really doubt these temporary recipes would be used for the weapon skins, but even if it were something actually worth the forge or at least as valuable as the gem investment (worth the key amount for the forged item), that could be fine. I just want something I will actually use/enjoy out of it, and what I really wanted was something Halloween-themed.

As someone who’s spent a great deal of money and fortunately hasn’t thrown anything out (I had to clear an entire bank tab just for all the junk I got) this is fortunately timed news.

Thanks Regina, this is what i was waiting for i spent around 40$ got one skin was really hoping for more. Also so many tonics i hope those are gonna be used to make these items because they are not useful…

Cactus Brawler.7415:

The problem with that is, it means Anet wasted their time in developing those skins, or indeed the black lion chests at all. If the only way you have of selling a product is to tart it up with a chance to have something new, actually give them a real chance or they’ll never buy them again.

Things aren’t looking good for the BLC Christmas editions with Wreath focus and Candy Cane pistols at this rate.

They didn’t waste any time developing them. Some people have got the skins, and they are all the more unique for that. Not everyone got one, obviously due to the amount of people in here complaining like children, but they certainly didn’t waste their time making them. Like I said before, if you actually wanted something festive and ‘new’ you should have gotten one of the guaranteed outfits or mini pets.

One question Regina, Halloween-related items, means candy and the gold drops, or skins? Cause that’s a big question too many will expect items such as cosmetic, the skins itself I must say, so I will like to clarify this before everyone goes into a wrong conclusion and hit the ground having false thoughts on the matter.

Thanks again for the update, waiting for the response

Thanks for the fast response! Sounds promising.

.

“They didn’t waste any time developing them. Some people have got the skins, and they are all the more unique for that. Not everyone got one, obviously due to the amount of people in here complaining like children, but they certainly didn’t waste their time making them. Like I said before, if you actually wanted something festive and ‘new’ you should have gotten one of the guaranteed outfits or mini pets.”slapdot.3760

Then they wasted their time developing the skins. You were saying that people should of waited and seen from a few outliers that the drop rate was stupidly low, boom no one else bothers to buy the chests and from a resource (monetary) point of view they were a waste.

Or in other words, why spend $200 creating a skin that only four hundred people are willing to pay $10 each in an attempt to get, when the same $200 will create a skin that eight hundred people will pay $10 to definitely get?

Particularly when doing the whole chance thing, removes peoples trust of your company thus your ability to sell them future versions of those chances?

We’ll have to see how reasonable their response is.

In future they should have it so that you will get a festive token in these chests, and X amount of tokens is a skin of your choice, with the skins still popping randomly instead of a token.

If Anet resolves this in a fair way and never treads down this path, I’d say all is forgiven. I know they want to make money but a better way to make it from someone like me is to just sell the five rare items for gems. I’d pay money for them, but after the whole key thing I’d never buy another key.

unfortunately, for some, no amount of candy will rid their mouths of the bad taste left behind.

In the future they really should go down the route of having the chests drop a token if they don’t drop a skin. Anet can decide how much real money they think the skins should go for and then have it cost from an NPC an appropriate amount of tokens…

During the festival time the player opens a chest and they either get a skin or they get a token, they at least know if they buy X amount of keys they will get a festive skin. It might not be the one they wanted but they will get one, either by luck or by trading tokens in.

Of course maybe the player buys ten keys and gets the skin they want on the first chest, let them TH the rest of the tokens to other players,he gets some coin, someone else can eventually get the skin they want as well. Maybe by some random chance they get skins but not the one they want, well they could TH those skins or map shout till they find a trade for the one they do want, maybe even trading in some tokens too.

“WTT Candy Cane pistol and X tokens for Candle Scepter!”

That I guess would be the way to make the most money without kittening off the customers again.

Edit: The player would know at the very minimum if they were an unlucky sod and got no skins at all, how many keys and thus real money they would need for the skin they desire.

Maybe they might get lucky and get multiple skins, maybe they might get the one they want and stuff to sell to others.

But wouldn’t that encourage them to purchase keys, if they knew even if luck wasn’t with them that $10 would get them the skin they wanted, but might get them so much more? Isn’t that the good type of gambling that gets Anet more cash?

Just my 2p.

Pfff i hope Anet comes up with a good way to make this is up to the players who bought keys like me , If they don’t i will never spend any money on this game ever again..

Wow due to the new update i had a look at what i got. 100 mystery tonics, loads of each booster (around 5 of each kind), 3 sets of each gathering tools, 3 stacks of BL salvage kits and 25 fine tranforming stones (these i’m actully ok with as i would use them).

Let me put all but the last one (the stones) in the forge for a weapon skin or 2 and i’ll be happy .

This is what I got for that $50,- hope I can trade it for something useful.
I don’t know if this will repair the trust I’ve had in Anet, but I’ve already sold the rest of my 129 black lion chests on the TP so I don’t buy more keys.

I opened about 80 chests on my end, all i got were boosters, potions and black lion tools and one skin worth less than 2 gold. I’d like to know at least what sort of items should be saved as I’ve been trying to clean them out for inventory space as fast as I can.

Also from what I’ve heard the average is about 50-70 boxes for a skin bare minimum. But thats only from the talk on map chats. Anyone have a data analysis yet?

O for the love of everything holy! You people are the worst! It’s a skin! A bloody skin that looks awesome but not having the skin will not hamper your enjoyment of the game in anyway shape or form. This not like an epic that makes you waaaaay more powerful then the unlucky chump. It’s just a look that starts and ends its desirability with how it looks and how rare it is.

Yes there is a certain gambling element to it and Anet has been successfully running this lucky lottery in GW 1 for years! Only difference these days is that gems can be bought with real money. But no one says you have to buy the gems! I mean, I want a legendary but looks at the amount of grinding and the luck factor (pre-cursors either have to drop for you or you have to buy them) and I am like “probably not for me”. So at the end of the day its about setting limits.

So far I bought $40 worth of gems that I have used to expand my bank, buy a backpack slot on my main, by the boxing gloves and witch’s costume. I also bought a total of 8 keys. The chests I opened with these 8 (I actually managed to open a lot more then 8 chests due to sometimes getting a key when opening the chests) did not yield any skins. But that’s not really the end of the world. Not like I didn’t get anything out of them. Bank passes, instant repair canisters – all really good things that have helped me out in a pinch before and some of the boosters are handy to have.

But if ALL you are interested in out of the chests are the skins, I suggest saving money to buy them off the TP!

Great new Regina thank you. I still can’t believe I spent 50 dollars on gems for keys and got nothing. I know it was my choice so I’m not complaining but I will be happy if I can turn in all this stuff for a halloween item or two.

Hopefully the “ways in which those items can be used” will include the mystery tonics. Seriously… I have over 100 of them and they are completely useless.

ReginaBuenaobra

Hey, everyone. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the team has taken on board your feedback and concerns.

We’d recommend not throwing away or selling the items you’ve been receiving in the Black Lion Chests, as we’ll be providing ways in which those items can be used to obtain Halloween-related items…

We’ll have further updates when they become available.

Thank you again for all your feedback.:)

/jawdrop

This is a very pleasant surprise, thank you Anet.

The implementation would be something interesting to note, though.

I spent more money on keys than I spent on the game and all I got was a bunch of boosters

I don’t really care. I had money to spare so I was happy to give it to arenanet for a small chance to get something pretty.
I knew when I spent the money that there would be a chance that I would get absolutely nothing but I still decided to spend it.

But I do thing it’s bad game design that the single best way to make money in this whole game is like winning the lottery. You can play the game for hundreds of hours and only get a few scraps.

OR you can just open one black lion chest, get a pretty greatsword skin, and instantly make 3 times the amount of gold that the person grinding for 500 hours did.

It would be much better if things that are the result of winning a really unbalanced lottery should not be tradable at all.

I can’t believe Anet gave in to the demands of crybabies….. If you are not ready to lose, you shouldn’t gamble in the first place… I payed big money to get a Chainsaw GS off the TP, I hope Anet doesn’t start throwing it at everybody, as I’d be very kitten Unique items are the most exciting things ingame (just look at TF2 and all it’s unusual hats + how much money they bring), if they break the tradition, I’ll be EXTREMELY disappointed in GW2.

Don’t mess this up Anet, I beg you.

Thankyou very much Regina for the feedback i truly hope this is well implemented we got to see how its the trade off yet.

Hope in Anet half restored.

Regina — Glad to hear this as now I actually have a shot at the chainsaw skin which is all I really wanted. A fair shot at it.

As for everyone else? Clearly the calm people who presented their case won this out. This makes another case A-net as made a sticky spot good for me.

tried again today got nothing but boosters and some harvesting stuff

I find it exceptionally alarming that people are reacting this way to a gambling thing. If you think you are entitled to a reward simply because you put real world money into something, then you do not understand what gambling or chance is.

You chose to put your money into it, you chose to take that risk. You are not entitled to any specific reward from that methodology. If you had paid for the Halloween mini pack and got minis that were not meant to be in there, or had less, then you’d be entitled.

I opened 80-90 chests, got 3 shoulder skins, the usual chest bits and pieces and that’s it – No weapon skins, no everlasting tonics, etc. I spent money on it, and I did not for one second think I was owed, guaranteed or entitled to a specific skin. I hoped, but I did not assume I was doing anything but taking a chance.

I think it’s disgusting to demand ANet to do something about it. Yeah, perhaps the drop rate should be a little higher, and their response about having an “alternate” method is interesting, but if they cave in fully and just give out the skins they’d be doing themselves a disservice.

Churchland.7524:

Basically, they got greedy, got caught, now they are going to throw us a bone. Sorry, Too little, too late.

Um, how would it be less greedy of them if they gave more rewards and everyone spent just as much? I didn’t realize it saved them money to make digital items rare. Or does their making these items rare make them greedy? How? Is it because people have to spend more to have a decent shot at acquiring them? But then if people are spending that much, it’s because they know they have to spend that much to have a chance of acquiring them… Then why are they complaining if they had that kind of inkling of what their chances were before they spent the money?

I’m baffled anyone would listen to people like TSL or Xai. Any business trying to follow their model would run out of customers fast. An empty restaurant, high end shoes nobody pays for, a theatre that people drive past to the one ten miles away to avoid it. That is the kinda place they’d run.

Nobody is asking for the main mystic forge hard to get skins to be changed or the many other fun things during the event. They are asking for a single thing to get changed that was a bad model anyways that many companies have used. It is great news that Anet is deciding to change it for the better.

They are not catering to entitled people of which you have no understanding of the word anyways or whiners. Anet is fixing a bad choice for the paying customer. The item is not being given away for free. This item will instead be rare in another way as it should have been. Even if more get it the item will still be rare due to people changing skins later, players fluxing in ‘n’ out of the game, new players, etc.

So ya, you kinda peeps need to get over your arrogance, fanboyism, whatever. It’s not good for the industry.

Opened 5 chests, got 1x BLC key and the Rifle skin.

Bought 2 more keys, then opened an additional 3 chests. Got nothing from those…

@ the people bashing “gamblers”

There is a flaw with your logic to the point of being down right kitten. In any form of gambling you are given odds of success either thru posted odds or long documented history. This is a short event so the long documented history goes out the window. That leaves posted odds. This game didn’t have posted odds and being a short event it was safe to assume that chests would have fairly decent odds of dropping a skin. This has proven to NOT be the case. Clearly it was a money grab by anet. That’s fine as its a business. However by not posting the odds and charging RL money for the keys they created a serious violation of trust on behalf of their players and IMO was very deceptive. When RL money is involved….Anet needs to start posting odds for success on every rng item purchased via the store.

This combined with the insanely priced crafted skins , again supposedly for a “fun” event, has left a bad taste in people’s mouths.

Anet needs to relax with the mney grabbing and realize if they provide FAIR prices and ODDS then people will be more than happy to spend RL money with them….if they feel they aren’t being cheated.

Yeah… the current setup feels like gambling with real money.

What is the reasoning for hiding the new skins behind a random number generator? The only real benefit I can see for ANet is to foster more gems to gold conversion.

On a related note. When will the gem store skins be updated with more options? There are only three armor skins (one for each armor class) with no sign of updates since new skins are being attached to random black lion chest drops.

Im glad it seems this will be fixed.

Walker.2184:

@ the people bashing “gamblers”

There is a flaw with your logic to the point of being down right kitten. In any form of gambling you are given odds of success either thru posted odds or long documented history. This is a short event so the long documented history goes out the window. That leaves posted odds. This game didn’t have posted odds and being a short event it was safe to assume that chests would have fairly decent odds of dropping a skin. This has proven to NOT be the case. Clearly it was a money grab by anet. That’s fine as its a business. However by not posting the odds and charging RL money for the keys they created a serious violation of trust on behalf of their players and IMO was very deceptive. When RL money is involved….Anet needs to start posting odds for success on every rng item purchased via the store.

This combined with the insanely priced crafted skins , again supposedly for a “fun” event, has left a bad taste in people’s mouths.

Anet needs to relax with the mney grabbing and realize if they provide FAIR prices and ODDS then people will be more than happy to spend RL money with them….if they feel they aren’t being cheated.

Didn’t the Halloween page before Phase 1 came out say there would be 1 skin per 5 chests? That’s what someone told me it said after the price for black lion chests jumped up to 70+ copper per chest. But I just looked and don’t see anything like that.