In my view, Clock Tower is not fun [Merged]
I had a lot of fun with this jumping puzzle.
Took about an hour for me to get it down but after that I easily ran it 14 more times for the tot bags on the smallest asura model in game.
You can blame it on other character models getting in the way but for the most part it’s silly jumping mistakes.
Watch a video of it on YouTube and take your time perfecting each jump.
Completing difficult things in life/game end up being the most rewarding.
I did it 100+ times in 5 hours. Including the learning phase (first 40 mins).
I only did it cause it’s fun. It’s the best part on the event so far.
I love it.
Plus, I didn’t get blocked by any character, ever. x_X I did get blocked by the tower itself in the last part, just before the last stairs. But then I solved it by zooming the camera.
Yep. It’s one of the reasons I gave up on the clock tower. There’s nothing like being in an instance with a dozen or more players, such that you cannot see where you’re going. The jumping puzzle isn’t needed for the overall event achievement, the reward for completing the jumping puzzle is trivial, and the fun of having a new jumping puzzle is overwhelmed by the frustration of having a jumping puzzle that’s harder than the ones already in the game and in which you’re in direct competition with other players.
4 hours to just do some lame kitten jumping.. Not worth the time..
Nobody forced you to do it.
Wrong. To fully complete the Halloween event you HAVE to complete the tower……there is no way around it as the event list stands now.
It doesn’t count towards the Emissary title. It’s just 1 standalone achievement with no unique rewards (the shoes can be purchased in the TP).
Well, after the first part, I’m alone nearly always. (Everybody else fails) But it’s awesome when you see more ppl. Specialy when you see someone who had been there for hours, and that he is close, or he made it. It’s awesome too.
Plus I like it when you made it again and again with the same people.
And if you don’t know where to go, you can see how the other people do the tower. Since if you didn’t have people, you will get lost many times.
aye, the clock tower is a kitten design to say the least. good idea, kitten deisgn. too narrow for a mob of people, some of us cant see because of massive mountains called norn and charr. I would say that this was fun but its by far the worst implementation ive seen out of anet in a long while. I’ve gotten to the top 5 times, only to bounce off the hole in the tower, 5 times.
As zoidberg would say, your tower is bad and you should feel bad.
Well imo this game has the least amount of social interaction in any mmo I have ever seen so far. I found it really odd that its an mmo, and yet there is no need to be in a party, or even talk to other players. This JP just cements that fact with other people being more of a hindrance than any help.
There’s a fine line between ‘challenge’ and ‘needless frustration’.
First off, I love the concept of this and I do like chatting up with the other players while waiting to try again. However! It’s a tad too hard for many people, myself included. After attempting it off and on yesterday, I still haven’t finished it. That there people blaming the larger character models for their problems is disheartening (though if the complainer is an Asura, I snap back that they need to stop tripping me).
Some background: My main is a charr, which is already a disadvanage as a some JPs are not charr friendly (hello Troll’s End…and any other JP that is in confined quarters). Despite that, I have completed most of the perminent PvE map JPs (one of the new ones and Dark Reverie I have yet to beat: the latter I have a special hate for but won’t get into here). I also have a minor completionist streak, and for limited time events I feel I have to get everything done (I even went into the PvP maps, and I hate PvP).
Now I don’t have camera issues on this particular JP, but all the other player models during the puzzle itself is distracting. Most of the time I fail shortly after the 2nd ‘start’ (who the heck thought that was a good idea in a TIMED puzzle?), like most people do. That part seems to be the determining factor of if you ultimately fail or not…as if you don’t get through it fast enough, you are kittened even if you do reach the top. That’s what happened to me: the ONE time I made it to the top (so far), I couldn’t proceed as the gas/acid/whatever had already consumed the platform I needed to jump down too.
That all said, here are my thoughts on ‘improving’ the chances of completion:
A: reduce the number of people jumping with you, if not make it a solo instance
B: Get rid of the ‘second start’ part. Have that part already up.
C: slow down the gas/acid/whatever just a tad (like 1%), to allow for ‘some’ mistakes.
D: or instead of C, have the gas/acid/whatever stop just below the second chest (the one you have to jump down too when you get to the top).
Final thought. If this was going to be in the world perminently, I wouldn’t bother making such suggestions. However, this is a limited time events and in my STRONG opinion, limit time events should be fully completable by MOST people with a little bit of time and effort. This JP requires more time and effort then I feel is necessary for a limited time event.
4 hours to just do some lame kitten jumping.. Not worth the time..
Nobody forced you to do it.
Wrong. To fully complete the Halloween event you HAVE to complete the tower……there is no way around it as the event list stands now.
It doesn’t count towards the Emissary title. It’s just 1 standalone achievement with no unique rewards (the shoes can be purchased in the TP).
Actually, no they can’t, they’re soulbound and unsalvageable, even.
4 hours to just do some lame kitten jumping.. Not worth the time..
Nobody forced you to do it.
Wrong. To fully complete the Halloween event you HAVE to complete the tower……there is no way around it as the event list stands now.
It doesn’t count towards the Emissary title. It’s just 1 standalone achievement with no unique rewards (the shoes can be purchased in the TP).
Actually, no they can’t, they’re soulbound and unsalvageable, even.
The ones from the clocktower are soulbound. Other ones aren’t. Look on the TP, there are plenty up for sale.
not fun, AT ALL. why can and i have a seperate instance? i need huge chars and norns in the way i basically need to guy your gems to get boosters to complete? i know i could do it if i could SEE my CHARACTER!!! you failed anet im disapointed
I just won’t bother trying it. I’m not huge on JP so this doesn’t seem like something I’d enjoy.
I was pretty annoyed with it, but after turning down the graphic settings to tone down the lag, I been making better progress, and feel about giving it a better chance. I think the puzzle itself seems to be pretty good, just that with the lag mix with a big group of people is what makes it really annoying at first.
Also I think there should be a separate forum for this jump puzzle lol.
you dont need a speed booster to complete..
It also doesnt count tword the event title.
Apathy Inc [Ai]
Ive done it on all 5 alts, bar the 1st time trying it i done it in the first 2-3goes each time, 2alts on a 1st try.
some people just suck at puzzles, yous need to get better or deal with it, not whine on every forum about your shortcomings. yeeesh
There’s a fine line between ‘challenge’ and ‘needless frustration’.
First off, I love the concept of this and I do like chatting up with the other players while waiting to try again. However! It’s a tad too hard for many people, myself included. After attempting it off and on yesterday, I still haven’t finished it. That there people blaming the larger character models for their problems is disheartening (though if the complainer is an Asura, I snap back that they need to stop tripping me).
Some background: My main is a charr, which is already a disadvanage as a some JPs are not charr friendly (hello Troll’s End…and any other JP that is in confined quarters). Despite that, I have completed most of the perminent PvE map JPs (one of the new ones and Dark Reverie I have yet to beat: the latter I have a special hate for but won’t get into here). I also have a minor completionist streak, and for limited time events I feel I have to get everything done (I even went into the PvP maps, and I hate PvP).
Now I don’t have camera issues on this particular JP, but all the other player models during the puzzle itself is distracting. Most of the time I fail shortly after the 2nd ‘start’ (who the heck thought that was a good idea in a TIMED puzzle?), like most people do. That part seems to be the determining factor of if you ultimately fail or not…as if you don’t get through it fast enough, you are kittened even if you do reach the top. That’s what happened to me: the ONE time I made it to the top (so far), I couldn’t proceed as the gas/acid/whatever had already consumed the platform I needed to jump down too.
That all said, here are my thoughts on ‘improving’ the chances of completion:
A: reduce the number of people jumping with you, if not make it a solo instance
B: Get rid of the ‘second start’ part. Have that part already up.
C: slow down the gas/acid/whatever just a tad (like 1%), to allow for ‘some’ mistakes.
D: or instead of C, have the gas/acid/whatever stop just below the second chest (the one you have to jump down too when you get to the top).
Final thought. If this was going to be in the world perminently, I wouldn’t bother making such suggestions. However, this is a limited time events and in my STRONG opinion, limit time events should be fully completable by MOST people with a little bit of time and effort. This JP requires more time and effort then I feel is necessary for a limited time event.
Well said. I agree!
some people just suck at puzzles, yous need to get better or deal with it, not whine on every forum about your shortcomings. yeeesh
Uhm, actually, a “puzzle” would imply some sort of cerebral activity, tactical thinking, deliberation and carefully planning out your steps.
Kind of the opposite of what you have to do here, which is more akin to “twitch gaming”. But, hey, if you’d read what people are saying you’d realize nobody is whining on every forum about their shortcomings.
Why do people insist on making up stuff about others?
I completed this on my Asura and it took me a good 2 – 3 hours to finally get it. As someone who has completed it I have to say that I do think it’s too harsh for a lot of people to do, which isn’t fair on them. One guy that was running with us was there for over 7 hours! To be so determined to get it but still fail at it is pretty bad, I felt really sorry for him.
At the end of the day it’s a holiday event, nothing should be overly hard or out of reach for players imo. Players always look at these events as a chance to stand out from the crowd (SSS: special snowflake syndrome) when really they should bring everyone together on equal ground to enjoy the festivities together.
Exactly. Challenging is great. But this thing is making me crazy. I get to the chest just in time for the green stuff to show up every time. If I can see myself.
The clocktower isn’t bad but it does have problems. First of all other people get in your way. GL doing it when a giant Norn is running in front of you. They should have let us do this solo in our own instance because it’s not like others can help you anyway. You can’t use any abilities so other people just get in your way. Luckily most of them fall off quickly and most don’t make it halfway up.
Secondly the leap of faith jump back down after climbing up is serious BS. Explain the logic to me; you’re climbing up to escape a rising gas, then you jump back down, and the gas somehow doesn’t immediately engulf you? This jump shouldn’t have been here unless it was without the gas.
But beyond that, it’s just really annoying. This is an MMO, not Super Mario. You don’t shove a platforming race mode with a strict time limit into an MMO. Why did we need a time limit here? Why couldn’t we just do this without the rising gas of death? It’d have been hard enough already without the strict time limit.
The clocktower isn’t bad but it does have problems. First of all other people get in your way. GL doing it when a giant Norn is running in front of you. They should have let us do this solo in our own instance because it’s not like others can help you anyway. You can’t use any abilities so other people just get in your way. Luckily most of them fall off quickly and most don’t make it halfway up.
Secondly the leap of faith jump back down after climbing up is serious BS. Explain the logic to me; you’re climbing up to escape a rising gas, then you jump back down, and the gas somehow doesn’t immediately engulf you? This jump shouldn’t have been here unless it was without the gas.
But beyond that, it’s just really annoying. This is an MMO, not Super Mario. You don’t shove a platforming race mode with a strict time limit into an MMO. Why did we need a time limit here? Why couldn’t we just do this without the rising gas of death? It’d have been hard enough already without the strict time limit.
Again, I completely agree. I’m going insane from the kitten tower and It’s not like i haven’t tried or I’m completely unskilled.
It is really difficult, but it has to be for what you get.
A pair of explorer shoes with a bad skin and a bad rune?
Horrible game design. Other players keep griefing, blocking view, camera is wonky, it’s just a mess. They obviously didn’t play test this with groups.
It’s pretty simple actually. If you don’t feel like “wasting” time doing it, don’t. There’s no title to gain, no monetary gain, not a single thing you can’t get another way. This is a game, there should be some challenge. End of story really.
Contrary to opinions in here:
I have found this Jumping Puzzle to be the best in the game!
It’s the only one I’ve encountered that has an emphasis on speed which I thoroughly enjoyed.
It’s true if you fall off very soon you’ll be waiting longer than if you survived longer but it’s not that long.
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I thought the design of the puzzle was Great and I applaud the creator.
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The fact that you can’t see your character at the early stage isn’t so bad as you can easily jump around because your character is in a fixed position on the screen, judging your jump becomes second nature based on the max distance of jumps.
(Asura here)
And besides as soon as the ‘fat has been trimmed’ you’re left with only a few players making it up high.
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Speed buffs!? Pahh, you’re a fool if you think they’re gonna help you.
Firstly you DO NOT need them to complete it.
Secondly they’ll make you go faster so it makes all your jumps harder, as jumps are often built around maximum jump distances.
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Please stop your moaning, challenge is a good thing.
Otherwise you’d have just done it and forgot it….
Finally got the tower done after a staggering 9 hours of playing the same course over again (I’m not that good in jumping puzzles people xD) I’m glad I got it but I have my doubts some of my friends will be able to get the achievement so in my personal opinion it could do with some improvement. Like others have said making the tower solo so other bigger characters won’t block your view is probably a decent course of action. (had a little trouble there myself at first only when I got my character naked it stood out and I could identify him in the flesh pile that formed on the jumping puzzle)
Anyone can do the puzzle if you are willing to spend as much time as it takes but lets be honest not everyone has that much time to spend. Does that mean they do not deserve the same achievement like you and me got? I think they should be able to get it as not being able to spend as much time in the game as a hardcore gamer doesn’t mean you’re a worse player than him.
Too bad slippers are soulbound tho I’d have been even more extatic if they were worth allot of money on the BLTC xD
My conclusion again: The puzzle could use minor improvements for the standard player with little time.
Best wishes and good luck to all who are still trying
Server: Underworld
What will make you hate them more is when they start griefing people deliberately trying to keep them from seeing the jumps then laughing about how people aren’t able to finish.
I hope the designer who made this goes to a special hell where he is an asura running the tower over and over in the middle of a group of charr.
They can’t have possibly done extensive testing of this in large groups. The pause before the jump at the beginning of the puzzle? I usually can’t see my body for the next 3-4 seconds thanks to flying charr and norn everywhere. And humans and sylvari are not much better, when you’re an asura.
so, joshua foreman: I wish this afterlife upon you. Deal with it.
also fix the cameras in this game
I gotta say I disagree with this. I understand the issue with other players characters making it more difficult, visually. I encountered this as well. But there is actually a social aspect to this (people talking between rounds). I don’t know what the best solution would be, but I don’t want this to become another solo pursuit. This game promotes playing solo enough, already.
Simple solution. Give us the option. Make it an instance that is both solo and group. This could be done by placing the “group” into the instance so if that “group” is only you then you go solo. If others want to do it with a group then they pug for it. They can invite random people join them and do it as a group. Both win though I have to say it is quite clear from all the complaints everywhere in game and out of game all across the web that there are way more who are ticked off because of it being a group thing than those who are fine with it being a group thing.
I gotta say I disagree with this. I understand the issue with other players characters making it more difficult, visually. I encountered this as well. But there is actually a social aspect to this (people talking between rounds). I don’t know what the best solution would be, but I don’t want this to become another solo pursuit. This game promotes playing solo enough, already.
Simple solution. Give us the option. Make it an instance that is both solo and group. This could be done by placing the “group” into the instance so if that “group” is only you then you go solo. If others want to do it with a group then they pug for it. They can invite random people join them and do it as a group. Both win though I have to say it is quite clear from all the complaints everywhere in game and out of game all across the web that there are way more who are ticked off because of it being a group thing than those who are fine with it being a group thing.
Easily said but the puzzle isn’t here long, what you’re asking for takes a lot longer to code and test.
Don’t know why people complain of other people, you lose 80% of them on the first ten jumps. Camera doesn’t bug out if you avoid certain places, like the little ledge at the cog at the beginning.
For all those that don’t like it, can’t do it etc. Their is more halloween content for you to actually enjoy if this is to frustrating. Stop trying to spoil the one challenge I’ve seen in this game. Do you all want everything like the Zhaitan fight or something? Handed to you by spaming 2 with no effort?
So
I just did this on my asura in only a few tries.
I wanted to see how this was with "fat" characters in the way.
It really didn’t affect me too much. I mean, my character is always in the center-ish of the screen, so I had a pretty good feel for where I was even if another character was clipping into me or over me visually.
Interestingly I more often had humans on top of me than norn or charr, as most of those folks this afternoon kept falling in the earlier parts and not coming along for the later ones.
The camera did spazz out slightly and zoom in close and then pop back out once or twice in the area right after everyone is forced to wait for the rubble to spawn in place, yet I haven’t yet had that happen with larger characters. Which is odd, I originally would have assumed larger characters’ cameras would flip out more.
I am not posting this to tell anyone having trouble that they are bad or that they need to learn to play. However if folks can keep providing anecdotal evidence about how "bad" the puzzle is, I feel it is fair to provide the same about how it is not.
@Whiskey: OK, that is just downright unfortunate and terrible. I am glad I haven’t seen that.
4 hours to just do some lame kitten jumping.. Not worth the time..
I don’t know what is more shocking, the high rate of failure or the amount of time some people sat solely at this puzzle.
So, what should they be doing instead than spending all the time doing the puzzle? Please enlighten me. Should we be running dungeons? Should we be grinding in the Labyrinth? I was more than happy to spend my entire night partying with others who were attempting the jumping puzzle. I’ve completed it but I plan on going back tonight because I had so much fun.
I played Beer Brawl the other day and the other team kept cursing me out for no reason at all. I hated that team. But I moved on. I didn’t feel the need to make a thread about it.
Instead, I played more and got better.
I had issues seeing my medium-ish height Sylvari too. I could only get past the zerg by memorising the movements and being risky to get to the front of the pack
I see that some various threads got merged, so I have lost some of the threads of conversation since my earlier visit to the forum.
However it seems a prominent thread still is the "large folks are in the way" bit.
I did this on an asura and tried to get a feel for running in the crowd and camera issues. But neither really impeded me. I am sympathetic to folks getting frustrated and not making much progress in the puzzle, but it’s difficult to agree that it’s due to other players or poor design. I’m also not claiming that makes me "right", but if many of us are happy with it and many of us are not happy with it it helps to try to step back and attempt to be objective about it where relevant. Hence why I re-did it on a tiny asura to try to get all the "bad" characteristics of the puzzle.
Jumping puzzles aren’t for everyone, I would say. Perhaps not everyone will ever get this one.
And maybe some practice in other puzzles, forcing yourself to go faster and faster, will help you shrug off the nagging feeling about speed in this one, helping you relax and make those jumps with confidence. When I sat back in my chair, for example, and did my best not to get frustrated was when I was less likely to make silly mistakes or early jumps.
Hours later, I tried again. I did marginally better, but the wait ticks me off. For me, if there was no wait to get back in, I would have incentive to keep trying. As it is, though, I keep failing simple jumps and being punished for it by having to wait longer to get back in – which just quickly adds to the frustration factor (while not actually doing anything for the difficulty factor).
I also think my mouse may be part of the issue, which is no fault of anyone’s (and perhaps it’s part of the issue for other players, too). I noticed I miss many jumps because I can’t air strafe quickly enough, even with camera turning speed at max – my mouse sticks and the camera won’t turn as much as it needs to. So your mouse’s responsiveness may also be interfering. If I keep holding W and jump I will inevitably fall at some point because of faulty air strafing – and stopping to adjust the camera means the goo catches up with me.
I can say with 100% certainty after trying for 5-6 hours straight, then trying after taking breaks several times, yet only being able to successfully air strafe past the beginning once without needing to stop (yes, just once – every other time the camera got stuck and my jump was way off; the one time I managed I got confused because I’d never gotten that far and fell) that this puzzle is just impossible for me.
Skill isn’t the only thing that gets in the way of completing it.
I think thats part of the difficulty of the puzzle. Doing it solo wouldn’t be so “fun” xD.
Togame la Estratega – Engineer
Marga Sorin – Druid
The dev who did the puzzle has stated it was intended only 5% of players finish, so I can’t help but think having to do it with other players is supposed to be part of the difficulty.
Guys i want to share a easy way to do that and probably someone posted that but i wont search 7 pages of posts. Get a elementalist with 10 points in air with the trait ( one with air ) its very easy if you having trouble and have a elementalist you should try !!
Easily said but the puzzle isn’t here long, what you’re asking for takes a lot longer to code and test.
Don’t know why people complain of other people, you lose 80% of them on the first ten jumps. Camera doesn’t bug out if you avoid certain places, like the little ledge at the cog at the beginning.
For all those that don’t like it, can’t do it etc. Their is more halloween content for you to actually enjoy if this is to frustrating. Stop trying to spoil the one challenge I’ve seen in this game. Do you all want everything like the Zhaitan fight or something? Handed to you by spaming 2 with no effort?
I think you overestimate what needs to be done in coding. Right now it picks x number of people randomly and puts them in it. If they wanted to they could just comment out the code that puts more than one person in the instance. And in the future make the coding for the option. To be honest from being a developer myself they could do the coding in less than one work day maybe even less than half a work day and have it done. Also the fact that there is nobody there won’t change the ability of those who are able to do it with others there since they are somhow able to overlook the others or are on a charr or norn that can see their character and where to go due to the other character models not interfering with that aspect of the puzzle. So again changing this isn’t handing it to us on a silver platter it is removing a griefing aspect of it that doesn’t affect the very small percent who can finish it with other present. As it stand from reading other threads a very small percent of people are actually completing the puzzle. Which mean 2 million players give or take aren’t able to. To be honest that is just crazy, why design something well over 90% of your players can’t do. Heck even removing others from the instance that amount may not be a majority but probably a significantly larger minority of players.
Lol pretty horrible design. I’m a Norn and I got nude so my huge kitten shoulders don’t hide the others, but it wasn’t perfect.
100% World completion.
9 hours of trying (not consecutive of course) and I’m done. I completey give up this event. It’s a nice jumping puzzle but it has some major flaws.
1. Too many people, you can’t see yourself well especially on crucial jumps
2. The ooze is just too fast for many players who don’t have a good hand to eye coordination (like me)
3. Waiting time is ridiculous. When you are trying it over and over again, it adds up.
Like I said, the puzzle is amazing, but it’s way too hard, and for an achievement junky like myself, I’m sad that I will not be able to get this one.
It’s fun at first, but it slowly starts to get really frustrating.
lol took me 15 tries and done it under 1 hr.
The clock tower lost a lot of it’s fun for me when I finally completed the puzzle and jumped into the broken clock face…. only to bounce right off and fail. I don’t know how that is happening, but this has happened multiple times I’ve finished the puzzle and will probably be my memory of this entire event after it’s finished: being utterly frustrated by large character models, people screaming at each other, and the buggy nature of the puzzle cheating me out of finishing the few times I actually made it to the top.
I think making people ghostly like they do in the lunatic game would work well for this. That fits Halloween too.
Me and my friends had LOTS of fun with the clock tower, laughing our kitten of as we and others failed misserably. Well, at least until we had all failed like 10 times and wanted to throw our mice into our monitors. Two of us gave up before me and one more finally made it into the tower. The reward in the chest was nothing special, but it felt great that we finally made it after so manny failed atempts.
Sorry for my bad spelling and grammar, english is not my native language
C
I have found this Jumping Puzzle to be the best in the game!
It’s the only one I’ve encountered that has an emphasis on speed which I thoroughly enjoyed.
You should try Spekk’s Lab and the optional part of Griffonrook Run.
Anyway, coming back to say that I did complete with my Asura. I did have fun with this when I was only running it for no more than an hour at a stretch. Afterwards, frustration sets in and that’s not good, so I have to go do something else. The problem is, the puzzle is available for a limited time. As I said before, if this thing was freely available like the other JPs, not tied to the festival, it would be fine as is, cameras and bugs and Charr butts and all. Otherwise, I still stand by my criticisms.
I will defend the time on the rising goo and the emphasis on reflexes. I bought GW2 because it rewards good coordination as opposed to being a stationary slugfest like most other MMOs. So that whole aspect is a plus and the reason the Clock Tower is attractive to me. Despite everything I’ve said about this, I wouldn’t want to see that part cut out.
I have completed all other jumping puzzles in the game and for the most part I found most of them challenging and fun, the only two that were frustrating for me was the one in Metrica Province and the one in WvWvW, the one in MP was frustrating but reasonably so, the one in WvWvW sucked cuz of griefing some people from another server up top for around 3 hours before we finally killed them to complete the puzzle with that being said…
This puzzle’s level of frustration has nothing to do with lack of skill or sheer difficulty, I think it would be fairly difficult if I were doing it in an instanced version just for myself but as an Asura I have to with my “gut” as when to jump…I have tried it with a Norn and a Human but as I do not play those nor have I done any jumping puzzles with them I found that even more difficult to learn
How to fix this I do not know, but hours upon hours of frustration does not equal good fun…and to those people who say “I have done it 10 times now, on an asura and a norn and a charr” GTFO…go do something else let the number of people attempting this thing dwindle down
It’s not a feeling of “yes I did it!” for a lot of people. It’s a feeling of “ugh that’s finally over.” This is not how you want a lot of people to feel.
Are you kidding me? If this is honestly how you feel then that is you bringing a wrong expectation to this game and wanting to complete things simply for an achievement. If you’re doing the jumping puzzle for a challenge, for something fun, to see if you can do it, etc, then you WILL be elated when you reach the end. If you’re just wanting an achievement then yes, after a few hours and finally getting it you will say “finally this is over.” But expect to do that with everything else in the game.
Anet is making this game unlike the others. If you want to farm achievement after achievement then go find another game.
IT WAS HORRIBLE
I request the developer responsible for the idea of forcing multiple people to be in on the puzzle at once to be given 40 lashes, no trial. I will pay 800 gems for it, how about it?
The puzzle itself was pretty neat.