Guild Wars 2

Approving quaggan approves!

Thank you so much for this post..

I don’t know what became of this community, it wasn’t like this in Guild Wars 1.

Now, as soon as a content is too hard people come in the forums and complain.

I’m so happy that they put harder content that actually requires some skills to complete. Nothing in this game requires any skills except maybe very high level fractals and high end PvP.

This game has so much appeal to the casual players. That’s where the majority of the crowd is so I understand this and I respect this. But why can’t some players understand there’s need for some harder content to keep us playing too?

Instead they blame the game for bad mechanics and ask for nerfs.

I enjoy all the hard challenges, the last 2 bosses feel more luck based imo.

Inb4 emergerd irt terks skirll!

What i especially dislike is alot of 1 shot problems, about 3 times when i did bosses right when i entered i’d immediatly be dead, i didnt have a chance to learn what i did wrong, enter dead boom. I dislike 1 shots because sure dodging can take skill but that shouldnt be an entire fight that isnt 100% skill that is just knowing the right timing.

I mostly agree with OP’s post. I can tell that Liadri is designed as a boss that not absolutely everyone can defeat. It requires good reflexes and for those who don’t (like myself), it requires alot of practice.

If one did the battle a number of times, one can tell that the first 15-20secs of the battle is very standard. The spawn location of the white well and mob is the same. The AoE effect placement is the same. The pull orb placement is a little random though. So in a way for me, the process of fighting up to obtaining the 2nd crystal is pretty much the same for all tries. Beyond that, minor variations will cause the battle to proceed differently from that point on for me. It will even say that I can roughly estimate when the pull orb will be spawn and therefore start looking out for them at the specific intervals.

It was by far of the most intense yet short lived moments I had in GW2. And before that, I did mess around with my build. I will try out a skill/strat for a few battles, found it is not good and proceed to try something else.

However, I think that it should not award a mini as there are collectors that really keen in filling up their collections. I think changing it to something like a title would be more appropriate.

Honestly, it’s ok to complain that it’s hard. I don’t like getting 1 shot as well, but that only adds to the challenge, and will make it even sweeter when I finally beat her. But it’s another thing to demand nerfs because others can do it, but you can’t. That’s where I was going with this.

Side note – Knowing the right time to dodge isn’t luck based. The only thing I would consider to be luck based is how close the orbs spawn to you. If you’re close enough, you might be able to kill them before they pull you.

Yeah, queen’s gauntlet is pretty nice, reminds of GW1 difficulties. I hope there’ll be more challenging content like Mad King ClockTower and QG. (Clocktower wasn’t that difficult but still it was interesting and more entertaining than any other JP due to its time limit and some tricky jumps.)

Its the bugs in this crap patch that bother me, makes alot of it impossible. Sick of these mini games being passed off as actual content, its pure fluff…

TRON.1085:

Its the bugs in this crap patch that bother me, makes alot of it impossible. Sick of these mini games being passed off as actual content, its pure fluff…

The only bug is oozes that stay at dome after time-out. And that’s not so awful

Katran.9186:

TRON.1085:

Its the bugs in this crap patch that bother me, makes alot of it impossible. Sick of these mini games being passed off as actual content, its pure fluff…

The only bug is oozes that stay at dome after time-out. And that’s not so awful

That’s really not the only bug. I’ve had the oozes stay inside, invisible tornadoes for the Windcaller, instantly exploding in Deadeye and mines spawning on me and exploding instantly during battle. The latter challenge was extremely frustrating just because those two things were the only ones keeping me from winning that one.

I agree that these shouldn’t be easy, though, and it’s a very good change of pace. What sucks is that, due to all the conditions and how the fights themselves are, full DPS is generally much easier to the point where the majority of the challenges require very little skill as the enemy won’t even have time to do much. It’s all in the build and any idiot can emulate that.
Liadri is very nice, though.

Still haven’t made to liandri but so i expect that my huge charr will have troubles to get it done due to visibility since a single mistake is equal to death.
Everything else seems almost fine to me.

Another thing that bothers me is the gambits. It sets a burden to the player and yet it takes tickets from us instead of rewarding tickest for the handicap.

Due to time limit DPS is best solution but it still needs some skill on 1 shot bosses mainly to dodge, sure theres plenty of bugs on new content always.

Last boss offers good challenge even for zerker but ive watched many of my guildys fail on lower tiers many times until they actually started to think on builds and tactics and started to succeed – auto revive function would have been fair to have >.> and cut the armor repair costs xD

Bugs suck. I’ve seen those bad ones with multiple enemies in one fight. But without bugs, this is still a good challenge. For instance, the very first boss on Tier 1, I didn’t know his attack would 1 shot me, so I would be meleeing him in front with my D/D Thief. I learned very quickly that I can’t do that.

New mechanics are really punishing to players that are used to only zerging hack and slash games. The Devs did a great job to make sure all types of character mechanics are in play here.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Now, regarding the term “challenge”. In simple terms, it means a task that is difficult.

In simple terms, it means will you do the task or you won’t, regardless of the outcome.

It has nothing to do with difficulty.

I can challenge you to a “staring contest” and nobody will find that difficult.

Difficulty comes in as a condition to the challenge, as for the staring contest, you’re not allowed to blink else you lose. Adding a condition makes this a “contest” or a “competition.”

The difficulty depends on the condition added to the challenge, not the challenge itself.

Same word, different definitions. You could challenge me to a staring contest, but I would find that most challenging.

For the Queen’s Gauntlet, one of the preconditions is not to get hit by the big attacks. That is part of the challenge.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Same word, different definitions. You could challenge me to a staring contest, but I would find that most challenging.

Well if you do find it difficult then you’re not being honest. Even if you’re blind, you can still participate in a staring contest.

For the Queen’s Gauntlet, one of the preconditions is not to get hit by the big attacks. That is part of the challenge.

You’re misusing the word “challenge”. I think you mean to say is that; “That is part of the condition in order to complete the challenge.” You even said it yourself “one of the preconditions.”

I think the most important thing to remember is that due to the very nature of an mmo such as this, not all classes will have the same difficulty curve when facing new content. What is trivial or mentally stimulating to one could be a point a potent frustration for another. Requiring a player to switch classes to do content should not be supported. Challenging content is required and encouraged, but we’re currently getting too much of the same: instant-death punishing mechanics, lack of usefulness of pets/minions in the grand scheme, and over consideration for heavy armor classes.

You want challenging mechanics? Ok that’s fine, but we need to pay abundant attention to detail when we make a challenge. Things like being a norn or wearing a backpack skin and having to deal with a not so good camera issue isn’t tolerable anymore.

I’m not expecting them to lower the challenge. I’m expecting them to fix the bugs and all the other issues surrounding the fight. I’m also expecting to at some point move away from the zerker meta and at least attempt to balance PvE. To offer up a real challenge instead of more gimmicks.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FakeDifficulty

Give this a read and see how many of the tropes the Liadri fight checks. Then realize we’ve got a problem here in how the content is being designed.

Miflett.3472:

I think the most important thing to remember is that due to the very nature of an mmo such as this, not all classes will have the same difficulty curve when facing new content. What is trivial or mentally stimulating to one could be a point a potent frustration for another. Requiring a player to switch classes to do content should not be supported. Challenging content is required and encouraged, but we’re currently getting too much of the same: instant-death punishing mechanics, lack of usefulness of pets/minions in the grand scheme, and over consideration for heavy armor classes.

You want challenging mechanics? Ok that’s fine, but we need to pay abundant attention to detail when we make a challenge. Things like being a norn or wearing a backpack skin and having to deal with a not so good camera issue isn’t tolerable anymore.

I agree with this mostly because it should have been geared as a challenge for everyone and taken into account any cons that could have ruin a player’s exp.

The problem is not that it’s too hard.
The problem is that it’s too much at once:

• Difficult (two different instantkill mechanics, with the hardest to spot AoE circles in the game and an abysmal camera)

• Punishing (~1 silver for repairs, ~1 silver for a waypoint, ~7 silver for a Ticket)

• Time consuming (walk all the way back/wait for a res after every attempt. Then wait for other people until its your turn)

And worst of all:

• Temporary (if you don’t finish in two weeks, you won’t be able to try again for another year. if the same enemies even return…)

popaz.1524:

Thank you so much for this post..

I don’t know what became of this community, it wasn’t like this in Guild Wars 1.

Now, as soon as a content is too hard people come in the forums and complain.

I’m so happy that they put harder content that actually requires some skills to complete. Nothing in this game requires any skills except maybe very high level fractals and high end PvP.

This game has so much appeal to the casual players. That’s where the majority of the crowd is so I understand this and I respect this. But why can’t some players understand there’s need for some harder content to keep us playing too?

Instead they blame the game for bad mechanics and ask for nerfs.

People are complaining because there are items locked in those achievements that won’t ever be coming back. And to collectors (especially mini pets) that’s hard to swallow.

So they complain that things are too hard. I’m all for permanent content that isn’t for a limited time being hard as they want to make it but when you only have a certain amount of time to get something done it starts to turn people off of the game when they start missing things from their collection.

The key here is permanent vs. time limited. When it’s permanent you can work at it some and maybe fail a bunch then take some take off, a few days, or week, or month, come back to it and try again. You can’t really do that with this living story stuff.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

There has been a lot of confusion among some players as to what the Queen’s Gauntlet is. This is content that was intended to be hard and challenging, meaning that not everyone will be able to complete it. Are there flaws? Sure, I can name a few bugs that I’ve seen pop up. But overall, these fights are not “freebie achievement points”, especially Liadri. If you want to win, learn the mechanics of each boss.

Now, regarding the term “challenge”. In simple terms, it means a task that is difficult. In the real world, people will have their own definition of what is or is not difficult. To me, the Clocktower JP was pure bliss. To others, it was like scraping the bottom of your feet with sandpaper, then jumping into a pool of salt. In the game however, it applies the term “challenge” in the purest sense. The design of the Queen’s Gauntlet is to have each player use game mechanics to how they should be used. Movement to control enemies’ paths. Dodge to avoid strong hits. Tells like red circles or movements that show an attack is incoming.

While the content’s bosses have set mechanics, players are able to adjust their builds to counter them. Trait for more mobility, damage, or conditions. Weapon sets provide a variety of skills that you can combine with your Utility skills for combinations. Food buffs that supplement your stats. All this can help reduce the level of challenge, or increase it if doesn’t compliment the target boss mechanics.

Again I bring up the fact that not all players will be able to complete this challenge. Because one player may find it impossible to do doesn’t mean it’s broken (yes I know there are random bugs here and there). Patches and bug fixes aside, the main mechanics are still punishing for some. But remember, this is a challenge. A very kittene. Don’t expect Anet to lower the level of difficulty so that the Queen’s Gauntlet (or any other hard content) is less of a challenge. For full disclosure, I have yet to beat Liadri. I reserve the right to scream at my monitor if it’s hard, but I refuse to ask for an “easy button”. If I want my win, I’m going to earn it. So should everyone else.

Negated all of this by 1 shotting everything until last boss facerolling with minion master necro. No thought process at all just faceroll.
Got to last fight and got hit with the… welp… ya got no vigor/block/evade/invul/leap so guess what bub? Time to reroll a warrior. But guess what I do not have a warrior. All I got is necro and nothing else.
Just because I did it… doesn’t mean its fine. It doesn’t mean its challenging. It doesn’t mean kitten past the fact its a cheap/lazy/brainless activity favoring specific classes.

The amount how much you can kitten it up there with guardian/warrior is simply mind blowing. Watching mesmer get tossed around by rifts left and right and still never dying is also hilarious.

Just for saying you did not do it “yet” and yet making this sort of statements judging how well something is made simply means you have either huge ego, your a rabid anet fan or you are trolling.

Agree Rengaru. I’m happy with the game but not with that last content.
Have a necromancer too and will not be able to finish this content…

HiSaZuL.2843:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

There has been a lot of confusion among some players as to what the Queen’s Gauntlet is. This is content that was intended to be hard and challenging, meaning that not everyone will be able to complete it. Are there flaws? Sure, I can name a few bugs that I’ve seen pop up. But overall, these fights are not “freebie achievement points”, especially Liadri. If you want to win, learn the mechanics of each boss.

Now, regarding the term “challenge”. In simple terms, it means a task that is difficult. In the real world, people will have their own definition of what is or is not difficult. To me, the Clocktower JP was pure bliss. To others, it was like scraping the bottom of your feet with sandpaper, then jumping into a pool of salt. In the game however, it applies the term “challenge” in the purest sense. The design of the Queen’s Gauntlet is to have each player use game mechanics to how they should be used. Movement to control enemies’ paths. Dodge to avoid strong hits. Tells like red circles or movements that show an attack is incoming.

While the content’s bosses have set mechanics, players are able to adjust their builds to counter them. Trait for more mobility, damage, or conditions. Weapon sets provide a variety of skills that you can combine with your Utility skills for combinations. Food buffs that supplement your stats. All this can help reduce the level of challenge, or increase it if doesn’t compliment the target boss mechanics.

Again I bring up the fact that not all players will be able to complete this challenge. Because one player may find it impossible to do doesn’t mean it’s broken (yes I know there are random bugs here and there). Patches and bug fixes aside, the main mechanics are still punishing for some. But remember, this is a challenge. A very kittene. Don’t expect Anet to lower the level of difficulty so that the Queen’s Gauntlet (or any other hard content) is less of a challenge. For full disclosure, I have yet to beat Liadri. I reserve the right to scream at my monitor if it’s hard, but I refuse to ask for an “easy button”. If I want my win, I’m going to earn it. So should everyone else.

Negated all of this by 1 shotting everything until last boss facerolling with minion master necro. No thought process at all just faceroll.
Got to last fight and got hit with the… welp… ya got no vigor/block/evade/invul/leap so guess what bub? Time to reroll a warrior. But guess what I do not have a warrior. All I got is necro and nothing else.
Just because I did it… doesn’t mean its fine. It doesn’t mean its challenging. It doesn’t mean kitten past the fact its a cheap/lazy/brainless activity favoring specific classes.

The amount how much you can kitten it up there with guardian/warrior is simply mind blowing. Watching mesmer get tossed around by rifts left and right and still never dying is also hilarious.

Just for saying you did not do it “yet” and yet making this sort of statements judging how well something is made simply means you have either huge ego, your a rabid anet fan or you are trolling.

I’ve been forthcoming in all my posts. I did not kill her yet. But the key thing here is that I’m not complaining about it being broken. It’s hard. Dang hard. And if I end up not finishing it before it ends, sure I’ll be mad, but that also means I wasn’t meant to finish it.

My thread is partly to defend Anet’s decision to create content that is not for everyone. Every player can try, but not every player will win. On the flip side, I want to make sure people realize that just because they can’t complete hard content, it doesn’t mean it should be dumbed down so more people can do it.

I use the term “Easy Mode” or “Easy Button” a lot. That’s because there are people who complain that they want one.

Ughh… again IT’S NOT HARD. Take it from the necro that did it. ITS NOT. Its just stupid and favors specific toolset which some don’t have access in any form.
Its not challenging.
Its not hard.

This game was advertised as for casuals putting content that is not accessible goes against that. Then again anet has so far lied about every thing related to necromancer so I guess I can just go with “working as intended”.
But it still does not change fact how 1 class can just faceroll it like its nothing and another class with be stuck raging at it and pulling hair because they lack everything that this fight requires in terms of game mechanics.

Skill in video games is imaginary value placed on ego and renamed. Clearing DMC in its highest difficulties never took skill. It just simply meant I sat there and memorized every last animation from every enemy and memorized every route, spawn.
In dmc tho even if you die in 1 shot while enemy doesn’t and its hardest level you have plenty of ways NOT to die. Here you don’t unless you roll X class.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I use the term “Easy Mode” or “Easy Button” a lot. That’s because there are people who complain that they want one.

There is one. It’s called rolling a zerker warrior.

Look, you can defend this broken content all you want for your own obscure reasons but that doesn’t change the facts. I’ve done it and I know that HiSaZuL has done it. Yet we’re both here calling it broken. Why do you think that is? I can’t speak for anyone else but for me the reason is very simple.

It just wasn’t very fun. I’ve gone through Ninja Gaiden, Demon’s Souls and some of the most difficult CRPGs ever created. I’m no stranger to challenge and I absolutely love it when a game brings it full force. But those games challenged me in a way that was fun and educational. I learned, I grew and I eventually succeeded. They made me a better player and I thank them for it.

The Liadri fight did not make me a better player. The mechanics were shallow, cheap and failed to take all the classes into proper consideration. I can kind of forgive it for that. What I can’t forgive it for are the numerous bugs and the camera issues caused by the dome. If this content was truly tested I’d like to think that somebody at some point spoke up and said that maybe it wasn’t the best of ideas to house this kind of battle inside a tiny glass dome where you can barely perceive what is going on if you’re unfortunate enough to be playing one of the bigger races.

Am I wrong?

^^^^
I took a whack at Demons Souls on PC…. I raged like a boss. Not because it was broken but because it was creatively HARD. Being me… I avoided guides and videos and spent a buttload of time beating my head at it till I was purple with rage but I finished it. It felt satisfying at the end.
This content only brought brought loathing and nauseating feeling towards it. On how cheezy and cheap it is… how much favoritism flies in this game. And how sad I am that I even bothered to do it despite knowing this gets me nothing but frustration.
At the end of a day I didn’t feel proud I accomplished something. I felt cheated by this game on every step. From horrid dome effect and not seeing jack. To almost invisible aoe circles… to the stupid 1 shot kill mechanics that never make anything harder without context.

Once again the ANET “camera angles” make virtually ever fight a challenge just to see what is going on. Queens Gauntlet is poorly designed and is a waste of time. You should not have to complete any of this garbage to complete the event.

It’s funny how you completed it, yet you call it broken. That’s a contradiction. If it were truly broken, no one would finish it. Basic flaws aside (dome making camera angles hard, bugs, etc), the Queen’s Gauntlet forces you to use mechanics of the game to survive. I highly doubt that even as a Zerker Warr, these players were able to finish everything without a single use of a dodge, or adjusting their skill sets to counter something thrown at them. As for complaining about being 1 shot, it seems you learned how to avoid it, since many bosses have such an attack.

Now for your consideration, perhaps you guys might be more skilled at playing than others? I’m quite envious that you had no problems finishing this content. Mechanics of the boss are one thing. Mechanics of the profession is one thing. Being good at what you do is something different.

Vindictus is a masterpiece when it comes to this. GW2 not so much because the telegraphing and consistency are awful.

@OP: Take care to work on your definitions and clarifications, even if you don’t like the outcome. Bad ones drag everyone down.

Also related:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWFzFsHc75U

TwoBit.5903:

Vindictus is a masterpiece when it comes to this. GW2 not so much because the telegraphing and consistency is awful.

@OP: Take care to work on you definitions and clarifications, even if you don’t like the outcome. Bad ones drag everyone down.

Also related:

The whole point of this was that it was a “challenge”. With people asking for nerfs and such, that defeats the purpose of “challenging content”. That’s really all I wanted to try and clarify. I tend to go off on tangents, so perhaps my main message was lost?

I really like the Queen’s Gauntlet. I have some complaints about logistics (lag, queue times, waiting for revives, etc), but overall I’m very happy to have a challenge like this in the game. I hope it’s not nerfed.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

TwoBit.5903:

Vindictus is a masterpiece when it comes to this. GW2 not so much because the telegraphing and consistency is awful.

@OP: Take care to work on you definitions and clarifications, even if you don’t like the outcome. Bad ones drag everyone down.

Also related:

The whole point of this was that it was a “challenge”. With people asking for nerfs and such, that defeats the purpose of “challenging content”. That’s really all I wanted to try and clarify. I tend to go off on tangents, so perhaps my main message was lost?

Nah, your post was built on false premises. The purpose of challenge lies not in the evidence that players fail. as you seem to suggest. The game provides sort of a false challenge as described in the video, because it’s built on inconsistent design and poor conveyance and players are punished for this. That’s the point of my posting the video. Not to be pessimistic, but the problem of false challenge in this game is egregious to the point where I don’t think ANet would be able to address them without re-envisioning the combat. Laying the onus on a hypothetical group of players asking for nerfs will not help ANet realize this problem and, hopefully, address it.

I don’t understand the premise of “false challenge”. The way I see it, Liadri’s mechanics are the same in each fight. The patterns are there, so are the 1-hit bombs, AOE, etc. Bugs and camera angle aside, there’s room for improvement. But the overall feel that not everyone can complete this is welcomed by some.

Anet is trying to please all types of players. Those who like easy stuff. Those who thrive on being punished over and over. Those who PvP. One group may not like the content of what the other group likes, but that doesn’t mean it should be changed.

Well said, OP, though I do think the fact that a post explaining what a challenge is and that such a thing should be expected in order to earn, you know, an achievement, is even needed in the first place is kinda sad.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I don’t understand the premise of “false challenge”. The way I see it, Liadri’s mechanics are the same in each fight. The patterns are there, so are the 1-hit bombs, AOE, etc. Bugs and camera angle aside, there’s room for improvement. But the overall feel that not everyone can complete this is welcomed by some.

Anet is trying to please all types of players. Those who like easy stuff. Those who thrive on being punished over and over. Those who PvP. One group may not like the content of what the other group likes, but that doesn’t mean it should be changed.

Blocks don’t work for whatever reason, range obstruction that’s not entirely logical or intuitive, poor telegraphing of skills (they’re instant), gameplay based on rote memorization, the mechanics favor only certain builds and classes (very costly for some), dodging Liadra’s autoattack amounts to tricking the game’s auto-tracking system which is a technique that borders on exploit…

Thank you for writing this OP! Finaly someone did. Im so tierd of the complaints EACH patch about something that isnt good enough. This was nothing like the GW1 community. Good to see atleast some people with common sense!

The gauntlet is amazing, i loved it. I found bugs but didnt care, my goal was Liadri and i got her down! Best feeling in the world

I don’t see how beating something excuses it from being bug ridden.

Yes there are bugs. But I’m talking about the core of this issue. Certain content was made for everyone to try, but few to succeed. It’s inherently wrong to ask for a nerf or easy mode so that the purpose of said content is altered.

Regarding Punishing vs Difficult, the subject in the video was aimed at the entire content, not an optional side quest that you choose to take. To say that Guild Wars 2 is overall punishing is completely false. It was made for all types of people to play. Casuals with a couple hours a week, to Hardcore who play 16 hour day, to everyone in between. The key argument here is that one group of people want to do content that another group does well. Do not take this one instance of people complaining the Queen’s Gauntlet is punishing, and define the whole game as such. It’s like saying my M&Ms tasted bad, so all chocolate is bad.

The people complaining are the vocal minority. As are the people who support the Queen’s Gauntlet. What we need to judge Anet on is how all content is delivered every 2 weeks. If they bring out a new Clocktower JP on steroids, expect new complaints and new praise. Not all gamers play the same way, and have the same skill.

And I’ll say this point again, because it’s important to know that I’m not trying to be an Elitist. I did not beat Liadri. My argument in defense of Anet with the Queen’s Gauntlet is simply “it’s working as intended”, aside from the bugs that I’d like them to fix. If I can’t beat her, ever, then that’s that. When I say Learn to Play, that goes for myself too. Gotta practice what you preach. So I’ll be trying and trying, and hopefully I learn from my game play mistakes, and adjust my builds accordingly.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Again I bring up the fact that not all players will be able to complete this challenge. Because one player may find it impossible to do doesn’t mean it’s broken (yes I know there are random bugs here and there). Patches and bug fixes aside, the main mechanics are still punishing for some. But remember, this is a challenge.

i agree. and, because not all players are able to complete the challenge, it’s not unreasonable for those players to feel a bit frustrated when the fail, especially when defeating these bosses is the only way to obtain the Queen’s Gauntlet achievement. personally speaking, these types of boss battles are just not fun for me, especially when i go into a downed state after just one hit.

i am glad that others enjoy this content and do not think it should be changed. that said, i think it would be great if alternate roads to obtaining the Queens Gauntlet achievement were offered. i think it would be fun if players were offered a choice of challenges based on the focuses of the three Tyrian Orders: an espionage challenge, a scholarly challenge, and a military challenge. that might not satisfy everyone, but at least there would be choice and opportunities for multiple types of players to feel successful.

I want a definitive answer on whether these same bosses and rewards will be in place once the gauntlet comes around for a second time. By then I should have my warrior leveled up, and ready to pile drive through content. I’m all for challenging achievements, just not one off time limited achievements.

But when it comes right down to it, I really really urge them to consider what they think challenging content should take the form of. Look at something like Tomb of the Vulture Lord in Warhammer Online; that’s very hard with traps and interesting and punishing mechanics without the use of gimicky one offs outside the control of a player. Also, a good dose of class perspective goes a long way when designing fights.

The biggest problem in GW2 right now in terms of overall difficulty is PACING. This goes both ways. Too focused on straight dps leaves players wanting more from encounters and punishes those who don’t gear like that. I believe that pacing, more than anything else should be first and foremost controlled by the player. It’s not the fact that things occur most of the times that get people mad, it’s the pace at which it happens.

“Game design is not a sprint, it’s a marathon.” Then let’s not cut corners on our challenging content then. I want the only thing without a doubt in a player’s mind to be, “I messed up there,” not “a bug caused this.” Challenging content should be ran through with a fine toothed comb, not pushed out within two weeks.

Fungalfoot.7213:

I’m not expecting them to lower the challenge. I’m expecting them to fix the bugs and all the other issues surrounding the fight. I’m also expecting to at some point move away from the zerker meta and at least attempt to balance PvE. To offer up a real challenge instead of more gimmicks.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FakeDifficulty

Give this a read and see how many of the tropes the Liadri fight checks. Then realize we’ve got a problem here in how the content is being designed.

Denial of information in the loosest sense because it requires some trial and error or a guide to realize what each part of the boss mechanics do.

THAT’S ALL.

Actually Liadra does include some other issues mentioned in that Fake Difficulty Trope. Take a look at the subtrope section:

Obstructive Foreground/Camera Screw (not intentional): Norns…

Pixel Hunt/Interface Screw : The blind we turn off with post processing. If that wasn’t fake difficulty I don’t know what is.

Luck-Based Mission/Randomly Drops: Only partially in Phase 1 in your first couple of tries. Becomes much less of a problem to a non-existent as you do it multple times and learn to manage the phase.

Character Select Forcing: Some professions are better than others. Zerker Gear and high DPS is almost required due to the time limit. Especially after watching a Zerk Warrior beat Liadra in less than 10 seconds with fear + burst damage in phase 2… which falls into the “Not The Intended Use” trope. Funny how Zerker builds keep doing that…

Unwinnable by Design: You just don’t have enough DPS with certain builds and gear to beat phase 2 time limit. The trait change is peanuts, but people having (or feeling pushed) to change their entire gear to Zerk is kind of unfair. The last two challenge LS achievements have been this way. Why is it always zerker which is optimal for doing these challenges? Can’t Anet make a grand challenge with mechanics other than bosses/trials with pure power DPS, high enemy HP and dodge to beat and time/pressure restriction mechanics?

Check Point Starvation: This is an MMO, but the losing, dieing, needing tickets, having to run up ramp if no one reses you, wait in queue etc. can be painfully tiring and actually effect performance as you become more frustrated with things that have nothing to do with the duels(s).

Trial-and-Error Gameplay: If you don’t read a guide or watch, this fight is truly trial and error, but which part of GW2 isn’t? This is fine IMO.

Save fore the unintentional lag/camera issues and the gimmicky blind, almost everything about Liadra phase 1 is real difficulty. However, fake difficulty does come into play in phase 2 where melee (without zerk and CC), defensive and support classes will likely not be able to take her out without extreme difficulty or there just isn’t the time to kill her with those builds. If there was no time limit on the last part of the fight, I think a lot more builds would be viable. The fact is that if you can survive without getting one shotted a few extra minutes that’s still player skill in longevity.

But skill/challenge was never the main reason for the time limits. Because of the non instanced spectating they had to go with a queue system. To keep queues moving you need a time limit. If only there was a choice for instanced fights to get away from zerg lag and queues etc. That won’t happen by the end of the event.

Of course encounters should be well thought out, as bug free as possible, and balanced. But the attitude I’ve seen a lot of people take (I shouldn’t have to change my build!!1) is just frankly weird to me. In raids it was assumed you would change your gear/build/enhancements as needed. Why should this be different?

The only thing I hate is that you have to use soulbound tickets to get in to it. Why?

mosspit.8936:

However, I think that it should not award a mini as there are collectors that really keen in filling up their collections. I think changing it to something like a title would be more appropriate.

I actually like the mini. It’s cool, it’s a nice status symbol, but it isn’t something super amazing like an armor skin and it doesn’t impact anyone’s gameplay negatively if they can’t beat the encounter and get it.

Thanks for the video. I think I definitely understand some of the frustration a bit better, because the provide your players with enough tools part really hit home. (still though if you’re in a totally crap build with bad armor, yes you might want to polish yourself a bit before you do QG fer crissakes.)

TwoBit.5903:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6UuRTjkKs

Vindictus is a masterpiece when it comes to this. GW2 not so much because the telegraphing and consistency are awful.

@OP: Take care to work on your definitions and clarifications, even if you don’t like the outcome. Bad ones drag everyone down.

Also related:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWFzFsHc75U

It would fine enough if they fixed the puppy (kitten is overused) camera. I can’t understand how during their tests no one even said anything about it.
For a fight where everything can kill you, having your visibility greatly reduced near the borders is terrible.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

For the Queen’s Gauntlet, one of the preconditions is not to get hit by the big attacks.

The conditions for the Gauntlet ignore all but two of combat mechanics. The only things that do count are dodge, and DPS. Everything else does not matter.
It is not a good thing in a game that was supposed to have more tactical combat engine, with more options and viable strategies. The challenge here is on pure arcade level. Guess what? Arcade games do it better – there’s no reason to try to copy them so slavishly.

the Visibility issues are the only ones I have with the challenge. I don’t consider a camera that obscures your FoV or a wire floor that aoe circles don’t show up well on to be challenge I consider that to be cheese.

Astralporing.1957:

The conditions for the Gauntlet ignore all but two of combat mechanics. The only things that do count are dodge, and DPS. Everything else does not matter.

And that’s why I’ve argued that this encounter is exceedingly shallow and no different from the AoE spam boss fights the game is already populated with. Remember the fire elemental at launch? We need to move away from the AoE spam and the whole zerker meta. Dodge is a useful mechanic but is it really all this game has to offer?