Guild Wars 2

Kaphei.7096:

Kal Spiro.9745:

I would really like to know what events got added to the game, to see if I’m familiar with them. I’d be happy to give feedback if I actually knew what they were.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Modus_Sceleris

These are some of them, I’ve done a couple of them, they are really good. I love the idea of having “evil guilds” around.

I’ve never encountered any of them. The idea is pretty good, though. Maybe more encounter spots? But this is derailing the topic anyway.

So, QJ. Yeah, at least it has combat and a couple open world DEs. But so far it’s a skill lagfest and losing tickets to bugs and crazy queue in that pavillion. Too soon to say anything conclusive, thought. At any rate, combat. Yay.

Kal Spiro.9745:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Galen Grey.4709:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

This update is bugged as hell. The bugs drain all the fun from it. I could have had my mini watch knight already, but no the daily achievement was bugged and didn’t count yesterday. Now I want to play the gauntlet, I pay for my entry but wait 23 minutes, watching countless people that cleary came after me go in, but I can’t. A whole ticket and much time, simply wasted.
Well let’s go look for the champions, I just need stone shield. Oh there he is, but he buggs out and disappears (without the fight event triggering) and get’s replaced by whirling blade (who I of course already did). FIX THOSE FREAKING BUGS ALREADY!

The only issue I am aware of with the daily yesterday was a typo. I suppose you’re talking about the beacon lighting thing. The achievement asked for anyone but only one applied, the one in the center plaza.

Doesnt help you much now I guess but that was it.

But I did exactly the one in the central plaza and it counted for my daily, but not for the jubilee event, preventing me from getting the mini today. Now it’s tomorrow, if not another major bug screws me over.

The central plaza Torchbearer daily makes 15, as long as you did the daily before it. So assuming you got all the straight Living Story achievements already you couldn’t possibly get the meta until you complete todays achievement, which is to travel on a single balloon to Divinity’s Reach. So I’m not really clear what you’re complaining about here. There are 13 achievements of the total 16 needed, so that’s minimum three days worth of dailies.

Wrong, there are 14 achievements, meaning you only need 2 dailies (which btw the game doesn’t tell you at all), to get to the required 16. I did the daily yesterday, the torchrun in the central plaza that is and it counted towards my daily achievements, but it did not count to the jubliee achievements (at the time I had 13 of them done, so it would have been 14, but nothing happened).
Today the daily achievement is riding the balloon to DR, which I did and this counted for both the daily achievements and the jubliee achievement. If yesterdays achievement would have counted, I would now possess a mini watch knight. Now I have to wait another day and hope that the daily isn’t bugged yet again.

Fiontar.4695:

What should you have done? Well, you should have stuck to the original plan you talked about last fall and created boatloads of new Dynamic Event content. Content that would have advanced the story with in each game zone told by the Dynamic Events that were there at launch. Adapting some, replacing some, rotating some in and out of circulation. That would have created a Living World. that would have preserved the sense of a dynamic game environment.

I love this update. It’s nothing but fun times and finally we have a go grind mission (the balloon achievement and arena) that doesn’t feel like it.

But I agree with you that dynamic events are broken. Their loops are so small that the world feels like a static world. I totally agree that just removing tons of them and replacing them with new content would be cool. However the logistics of that aren’t easy. It’s lots and lots of new scripts and development for something that in the end still is just going to feel like “lesser” pre-80 content for most people. I’m not sure it’s something they can solve, short of adding some experimental new AI to some areas like Everquest Next where the AI itself works on making the world dynamic.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

The very first living world team actually did the thing some of you have called for. Some 40 or so permanent events were added around the game in our very first content update. They were met with little interest or fanfare. Granted, Halloween may have stolen the show. But those events are still in the game today. I’ve seen very little reaction to them, however, positive or negative.

Okay, going to specifically comment on this right here. I assume you’re talking about the Skritt Burglar and Modus Sceleris content, because as far as I know those are the only two groups of new events you added during that release (and note that this is the wiki, we were specifically looking for new stuff). We listed them here:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_of_the_Mad_King

It’s actually not surprising you didn’t see much fanfare on these events. Most players probably never even knew they existed (which seemed obvious when in the patch notes following Halloween we had a reminder that something had been added). They not only were completely overshadowed by Halloween, but in the original patch notes all we were told was that a Skritt Burglar was on the loose, but nothing about how to find him (I’ve only seen him once since he was added, and that was 3-4 weeks ago…and I’ve played since launch), nor that Modus Sceleris was even added. The game had been out for only two months, and very few people would have been able to tell you with certainty what was added and what was already there. Plenty of players even thought the notes were talking about events added for Halloween, so they never went looking.

The Modus Sceleris groups move around and are often out of the way. There’s even been several questions on these NPCs, but because there’s zero backstory or lore associated with them they don’t seem very special other than their unique skills.

New Skills and Traits and Modus Sceleris.
Modus Sceleris – Help track down these troublemakers
Modus Sceleris – are these guys still around?
DAE want Modus Sceleris to be expanded more?

To the players, it really just feels more that we didn’t know about them and you guys stopped developing them because you didn’t know what to do with them, not that you stopped because we didn’t like them. Those that actually see them and do the events tend to like them…when they get to see them.

The thing is, we don’t actually need whole revamps of huge numbers of events. If the Living World teams would work on permanently adding 5-10 events each month (5 is perfectly fine) alongside their release, and the patch notes actually point them out (or at least which maps they’re on), you’d see a lot more people responding because they’d actually get to play them.

…when they’re not cramming to get LW content done before it’s removed, that is.

I personally love this one. It’s suppose to feel like a Roller coster/Merry go round.

I love that there’s a gem store 2 week bank/TP/VIP section.

I think the only thing that would have made the look/vibe more trashy human funny, was say Cola Drink advertising! Or some cheesy aspect like that on top.

I really like the ‘pit of big scary monsters’ to grind, with big groups of others. With dragon bash, fighting overs for spawns was a scary step in anti-social play other MMO’s do, so this auto-group, all buffs/loot/everything is shared with all the players really makes me happy.

Love the 2 different sections, one for the ‘world event’ one for the ‘arena event’. Gives the feeling your not forced to do the bits you don’t enjoy.

Will say, there’s a ‘few’ too many bag types/tokens. When you include the drop bags from the trash mobs, your looking at 10’ish bag, full of bags!

Some of the circles of death on the ground, don’t draw, particularly with graphics turned up at peak times of the day.

All in all tho, lots more fun than I expected, and Im very glad you haven’t gone to fight to tag mobs!

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Kal Spiro.9745:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Galen Grey.4709:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

This update is bugged as hell. The bugs drain all the fun from it. I could have had my mini watch knight already, but no the daily achievement was bugged and didn’t count yesterday. Now I want to play the gauntlet, I pay for my entry but wait 23 minutes, watching countless people that cleary came after me go in, but I can’t. A whole ticket and much time, simply wasted.
Well let’s go look for the champions, I just need stone shield. Oh there he is, but he buggs out and disappears (without the fight event triggering) and get’s replaced by whirling blade (who I of course already did). FIX THOSE FREAKING BUGS ALREADY!

The only issue I am aware of with the daily yesterday was a typo. I suppose you’re talking about the beacon lighting thing. The achievement asked for anyone but only one applied, the one in the center plaza.

Doesnt help you much now I guess but that was it.

But I did exactly the one in the central plaza and it counted for my daily, but not for the jubilee event, preventing me from getting the mini today. Now it’s tomorrow, if not another major bug screws me over.

The central plaza Torchbearer daily makes 15, as long as you did the daily before it. So assuming you got all the straight Living Story achievements already you couldn’t possibly get the meta until you complete todays achievement, which is to travel on a single balloon to Divinity’s Reach. So I’m not really clear what you’re complaining about here. There are 13 achievements of the total 16 needed, so that’s minimum three days worth of dailies.

Wrong, there are 14 achievements, meaning you only need 2 dailies (which btw the game doesn’t tell you at all), to get to the required 16. I did the daily yesterday, the torchrun in the central plaza that is and it counted towards my daily achievements, but it did not count to the jubliee achievements (at the time I had 13 of them done, so it would have been 14, but nothing happened).
Today the daily achievement is riding the balloon to DR, which I did and this counted for both the daily achievements and the jubliee achievement. If yesterdays achievement would have counted, I would now possess a mini watch knight. Now I have to wait another day and hope that the daily isn’t bugged yet again.

The 14th achievement IS the meta, so no, there aren’t. I have done 3 dailies and 5 LS achievements, I am at 8 and there are exactly 8 left for me to do. What does that tell you?

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

But in the mean time, please keep telling us what you’re thinking. We are listening. Not only to what you’re saying but also to what you’re not. The very first living world team actually did the thing some of you have called for. Some 40 or so permanent events were added around the game in our very first content update. They were met with little interest or fanfare. Granted, Halloween may have stolen the show. But those events are still in the game today. I’ve seen very little reaction to them, however, positive or negative. Despite this, there are many events I would still like to add. Many zones and bosses I would love to revisit. As we get better at the living world, I strongly suspect we’ll have room to get around to them as well. Assuming that’s what our players really want. You are all the second half of the collaborative process, so thanks for helping!

Just on this particular element of the game and on the topic of design in general I really want to speak directly to the devs. What you say, Anthony, seems to indicate that refining or adding to existing open world zones, particularly in terms of dynamic events, has been sidelined because of a lack of reaction from the community. I certainly hope that this is not the case.

I know that you listen to the community a lot, something we all appreciate, and take a lot of usage data to try to determine how to make the game better fulfill the demands of your players. I do worry though that you might be taking this information too much at face value when creating new content for the game. First and foremost you are the game designers, not us. When we look at things like the manifesto or even the state of the game at release there is a very strong and clear design philosophy evident in the way things were put together that is very much lacking in the living world releases and while the quality of the content and its delivery is definitely improving that clarity of design and vision of what an mmo should be has been lost, and I think it is because you are listening too much to us, and not following your own beliefs and ideas enough.

FWIW I am a big fan of the whole concept of DE and I am sad that you seem to have given up on them so easily. The game needs more, a lot more, of them in the open world zones. Events that change with the seasons, events that spawn based on the decisions participating players have made in the personal story, events that start in cities and lead players out into the world, temporary events, event chains that unfold over weeks rather than a few hours, events with combat, with jumping puzzles, with crafting, with exploration, events that move from zone to zone, event chains that span across an entire region. When you get to a certain density of events that a player can go to a zone once a week and be sure to see something new, that they didn’t experience before, then I think you will find people really start to appreciate your intentions in designing that system into the game.

But you have to believe in your ideas, and that you have the ability to not only make them work but also convince us that they are better than the alternatives. This belief was evident in the game at release, but all I see in the latest content updates is confused thinking. Well intentioned, and appreciated, but in my opinion the game was much better designed at launch then it is now, flaws and all.

Henry Ford allegedly said (and it definitely contains truth whether he said it or not) that if he asked people what they wanted they would have asked him for faster horses. No matter how fast the horses we ask you for are please keep believing in that car thing you were working on for so long before the game released. We will thank you for it in the end.

I don’t understand how they’re missing the opportunities that are already there to integrate the LS content into the existing events. Developers continuously create new rivals and nemeses and leave the existing lore and creatures to run circles around maps contributing nothing. Perhaps I’m speaking too soon considering the Aetherblade are relatively new, and we don’t know where the story is going, but if it fizzles into some arbitrary foe that does not advance the lore or GW2 story I will be greatly disappointed.

Again, I’m being presumptuous, but it feels like ANet is trying to get away from the dragons. Granted, I don’t expect them all to be thrown at us in half-hearted fights within the first 1-3 years, but to defeat one dragon almost immediately and then hear nothing more of them while given seemingly random foes is a little irritating.

Kal Spiro.9745:

The 14th achievement IS the meta, so no, there aren’t. I have done 3 dailies and 5 LS achievements, I am at 8 and there are exactly 8 left for me to do. What does that tell you?

The meta achievement does not count to the 16, why would it? YOu need 16 other achievements to get it, how could you get 16 if the 16th was only available if you already got 16?
And no, I did get no point for doing that yesterday, since I had my tab open before and after I did the torchrun and didn’t give anything for that. I later got a point for doing all the runs, but not for the daily. Do you finally understand that it was bugged or do I have to write it down yet another time in different words?

First of all I would like to say I am glad to see that Anet is reading our responses and taking what the community says into consideration.

I haven’t read the whole thread, but what I did read brought up some good points and I would like to reiterate and elaborate.

The Living Story, not really changing: meaning this month we’re going out into the world to find:

Holograms
Kites
Balloons

I’m going to focus on the kites in particular here because this one gave me the most grief. I hate jumping puzzles, if not for a Mesmer friend I would not have been able to get most of the kites, in fact I never got the WvW one because I didn’t want to bother my friend with it. I would have really liked to have seen some ORs for the kite achievements. By ORs I mean achievements like those you get for completing racial storylines, you only need to complete one storyline to get the achievement. If you had made the jumping puzzle kites, kites in the different WvW castles, and kites in dungeons that would have allowed the players to target their niche and not spend the entire update trying to jump. Players would get to pick what they like best and not feel punished if they can’t complete the Pig Iron Quarry jp for the kite, instead, they can go take Stonemist Castle or complete Arah p4.

Further looking into the OR idea, I did like parts of this update (the wallet, champ drops, dungeon rewards +10) but the gauntlet upstairs, I understand why you have the two minute time limit, but I really think it would be better to give us an option to go into our own instance where you have unlimited or longer time and get the achievements. My ele hasn’t had a problem fighting any of the people in the gauntlet, except for the time factor, if this tournament is really about skill rather than who can deal a high amount of damage in a short amount of time an option to go longer than two minutes should be there, they just can’t be fighting in the domes for others to watch.

I also agree with the time crunch we’re given, I’m moving this weekend and will be without internet at home for several days. I’m ripping my hair out because I may have to miss out on stuff just because AT&T said they signed me up and scheduled me for tomorrow two weeks ago, to find out last week when I hadn’t heard from them that they never even put me in the system. I loved the MF, that was my favorite update, but it was during finals week, so I had hardly any time to enjoy it. Unfortunately I can’t think of a way you all could have kept it open unless you had perhaps let it run alongside the next update and had it take awhile to fully “shut down”. I could realistically see the Queens Gauntlet Area staying forever, why would Jennah build it to not let anyone in after a month?

I started playing in January, so I wouldn’t have noticed these new events that have been put in but, I have noticed on almost every update my guild mates saying, “Oh this is different, Anet must have snuck this in.” I would like to see very detailed patch notes with the name of the event and in what map, this why people can go check it out, if you sneak it in or just vaguely mention it, how do you expect people to realize it’s new and not something they overlooked?

I’m looking forward to being able to craft precursors, and I really hope the new legendary staff skin is awesome. There are few staves that I like, been using the krytan one up until the achievement weapons came out. Though I think it would be interesting to have a quest chain as long as the living story, and more complicated to get specific precursors as a reward at the end. That way it’s not: go out and collect 250 of this item, 250 of that item, 250 of these, oh and 1000 of those over there. Could have the 250 items within the quest. I see it as an opportunity to do some serious character development, and maybe internal cooldowns to make it take longer so people can’t just blow through the quest chain, or certain achievements have to be completed for the next quest event to start perhaps, like Dungeon Master.

Long thread is long, but very good and I sincerely hope this gets read in its entirety due to the many constructive thoughts presented so far. I read virtually all posts, skipped some when I was eating, and then went back and read the OP.

I absolutely can sympathize with the Op’s feelings as many others have. This is a fantastic game, but feels like it is being slowly diluted into a boring cycle of new flashy stuff “omg have to do this for achievement points and only have 2 weeks to do so!!” Or " omg i have to check dulfy so I can figure out how to do this new stuff" rather than walk around explore and enjoy the amazing looking game world that has been created.

I had a plan months ago already, that I have long since deviated from but will hopefully pick up again soon. Level one of each class to 80, near complete. Then, the fun part, explore every zone to its fullest. Do every event, search every nook and cranny, master every corner of the known map. And coming from someone who spends more time in Wvw than anywhere else that is a tall order. Then Living story started. And I will tell you waht, its a big empty world out there when an update drops and you are exploring and everyone else is doing living story.

So what really boggles my mind about these “Living Story” updates is…… Why in gods name wouldn’t you use these events to pull people into zones that get ZERO attention anymore?!? Remember when you first started playing, everyone was low level and ran around and did even the most small mundane events together and everything was interesting. Each opening zone was PACKED. Then when you went to the next zone because you had leveled up and felt you needed more challenge, OMG that zone was packed too. Imagine that, people were advancing at the same rate and experienced content together. Obviously this is unsustainable, because somewhere you hit a wall where everyone reaches their goals and then has to find something to do pretty much. I feel like Im already deviating from my posts goals.

Please focus these living story’s to achieve something. Either contribute something useful to the world with new dynamic events, augment existing ones in interesting ways ( if say nobody succeeds at so and so event after 10 repetitions there are DIRE world results), or use them as tools to guide people in different directions, (dead zones that need populating for example)

These flash in the pan events are doing nothing but vomiting rewards at people and turning it into a race to collect as much garbage as you can. If i wanted to zerg and just collect loot and do nothing with it, I would go play diablo 2.

Did anyone else find it hilarious that this update included less flashy effects in big groups, and yet there you find yourself in a PVE event reminiscent of old wvw culling -fests where you cant even see what you are attacking, instead you see nothing but flashing lights and particle effects.

Or is anyone laughing at how great wallets are, and yet sad that we even need them. God forbid everything just cost gold, ok maybe a few tokens here or there but really does every dungeon need its own currency. and then fractals need their own, oh yeah dailies that needs a currency too, oh wait living story……… A wallet is no longer big enough, I need an in game accountant now please.

Ah yes fractals, I forgot about them, just like everyone else has right after they got their ring drops and stopped doing them. Because after you do the same map ten billion times, yes, it gets boring. This is the one place where I wish you would apply the way living story is being used. Put those teams to good use making a new fractal every 2 months or so. I mean really, its kind of what I figured fractals were. Short story dungeons that relate to parts of the open world but stand alone like dungeons. This is the type of content that should have lots of new stuff every few weeks and have old stuff rotate out for a while then back in.

I’ll stop there because now I have even lost myself and what I wanted to say.

Seems many of us share the same opinion: an expanded version of the dynamic event system can be the future of GW2 and the living world content.

Wow, it really does seem to be a close “50 50” between people who like, or dislike the LS content. Feel for ArenaNet, very tough trying to appease both crowds.

@Antara, The point I was trying to make with my post was that because it is impossible to please everyone they should stop trying to quite so much and return to their own vision of GW2, rather than pandering to the collective us. They are the designers after all. We can see so much of their ability in GW2 but it feels like they have lost self confidence, or become confused as to the path forward. I mean, I know it doesnt help that mmo players by nature are hidebound, timid creatures but I really do believe if anet had stuck with their vision as seen in the manifesto and the game at launch not only would it be more popular than now, it would be significantly better too.

Webba.3071:

@Antara, The point I was trying to make with my post was that because it is impossible to please everyone they should stop trying and return to their own vision of GW2, rather than pandering to the collective us. They are the designers after all. We can see so much of their ability in GW2 but it feels like they have lost self confidence, or become confused as to the path forward. I mean, I know it doesnt help that mmo players by nature are hidebound, timid creatures, but I really do believe if anet had stuck with their vision as seen in the manifesto and the game at launch not only would it be more popular than now, it would be significantly better too.

Reading the forums to a Developer probably resembles being a politician. No matter how good your backstory, how hard you work, people will still criticize, and tell you what you can do better. Myself included. All around I believe they’ve done a hell of a job taking feedback and listening to us as a whole. If a majority complains about a certain part of the game, I know they take that into consideration and strive to fix that issue. If it’s only a collective handful, then I’m sure they give it a thought, but they can’t change to appease the few.

Another big factor (in my opinion) is the point of new faces joining the ArenaNet team. New teammates means new ideas and visions, meaning the game might jolt to another direction (definitely the case since the earlier days of GW1).

The only issue I have, is the fact that a good topic will pop up, and it gets derailed into personal attacks and a huge fight between the “50 50”. I personally like the fantasy, medieval game style versus the “casual” festival type game play with mini-games. The other half of players enjoy it though, it’s great for them to be able to come home and jump into action, whether it’s a mini game or what have you.

What’s interesting in this games case, is the fact there the fan base does seem split. I’m excited to see which way the game goes in the future.

Vocal minority from very casual players. ArenaNet, this is the best update I’ve played from you all and I’m having a blast, as well as my guild and family. I haven’t heard any complaints from Jade Quarry (other than the Liadri is so hard comments.. by the way, you could make her red circles more visual..), so keep it up.

Skychok.7854:

Vocal minority from very casual players. ArenaNet, this is the best update I’ve played from you all and I’m having a blast, as well as my guild and family. I haven’t heard any complaints from Jade Quarry (other than the Liadri is so hard comments.. by the way, you could make her red circles more visual..), so keep it up.

Please read the thread more carefully before making comments which contribute very little, except to let people who disagree with you feel insulted.

@Antara, I also think Anet are very good at listening to the community, which is why I worry that they are too good at it, so to speak. Every complaint or problem or idea raised by the community has to be subjected to critical analysis by the devs to determine firstly how genuinely valid it is, and secondly how best to solve the issue while remaining true to the designers own beliefs and vision for the best game they can make. I fear that because of time constraints Anet tends to rush for the first solution to present itself in an effort to keep people happy, which has muddled their thinking when it comes to the design of their own game.

I know it isnt easy, its probably the hardest thing for a designer of anything to do but like I said, there are many things in the the original release of GWII that indicate Anet can do it. You talk about the community being split 50/50 and how it is interesting which way it will go. What about what Anets devs think? Do they not get a say anymore? Personally I dont care at all about what the community wants, and I include myself in that. I want to see the game that anet wants to make and I am speaking up only because I feel that the one they are currently making is not that game.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

But in the mean time, please keep telling us what you’re thinking. We are listening. Not only to what you’re saying but also to what you’re not. The very first living world team actually did the thing some of you have called for. Some 40 or so permanent events were added around the game in our very first content update. They were met with little interest or fanfare. Granted, Halloween may have stolen the show. But those events are still in the game today. I’ve seen very little reaction to them, however, positive or negative.

You can’t expect players in a very new MMO (a few months after launch) to be able to distinguish new events from those that shipped with the game when there was no list of events given on that content release. I’m sure I played (and enjoyed) many of those new events without having any idea they were new.

At this point, if you added a new event chain to, say, Queensdale, I’d notice it and if it was a lot of fun, I’d likely give positive feedback about it.

Antara.3189:

Wow, it really does seem to be a close “50 50” between people who like, or dislike the LS content. Feel for ArenaNet, very tough trying to appease both crowds.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Seems many of us share the same opinion: an expanded version of the dynamic event system can be the future of GW2 and the living world content.

It’s quite simple, and DiogoSilva (as well as others) hit it on the head: the Dynamic event system was the selling point of the game for years and I feel cheated, quite honestly. The amount of missed opportunity involved with not utilizing and improving existing resources is unprecedented. Devs say that they don’t improve on the Dynamic Events because no one participates. Catch 22 if I had ever seen one. An event is no longer dynamic if it is the same event for a year.

The living world existed, until it was killed by this notion of rampant temporary content. I guarantee people would be more satisfied with seeing Orr begin to be revitalized through a weekly series of events that ends on a grand scale. THIS is your living world.

The living story, however, is creating a dying world. Consider this update. A majority of players are participating in a 24 hour zerg. Is this the living content which was held on such a high pedestal? I doubt this was the intention, but it’s keeping people in the event, which creates data about participation. If the effort these living world teams put into temporary grind fests was put into improving the existing world, the game would live up to its advertised standards, and standards that the players who waited 5 years were expecting.

The problem may in fact be that the entire game has come down to this content. Maybe the development cycle is too fast? There is no time to enjoy what was shipped. This is an argument I usually tend to avoid because personally I can’t deal with any more posts about content being too temporary. Personally, I don’t have a problem with the game’s velocity; however, I am very active on the forums and it doesn’t take long to see what the players are enjoying the least. Sure, this forum may only provide the vocal minority of players, but this is the feedback. If the forums are not intended for such, then remove them.

The point is, a lot of players that care enough about the game to voice their concerns are not happy with the direction the game is going. That is not a statement placing value on one type of player over another, but again, this is where the feedback is.

Every red post commenting on negative reactions says the same thing: “Well wait until you see what we have in store for you next month!” It’s getting old.

TL;DR:
- Give players time to enjoy the existing world instead of dragging them from map to map to grind for X currency and Y minipet.
- Use existing dynamic events to tell the story of Tyria rather than neglecting existing resources to tell seemingly arbitrary stories.

Put a Legendary Boss in every map. Make it a grand event chain.

Webba.3071:

Skychok.7854:

Vocal minority from very casual players. ArenaNet, this is the best update I’ve played from you all and I’m having a blast, as well as my guild and family. I haven’t heard any complaints from Jade Quarry (other than the Liadri is so hard comments.. by the way, you could make her red circles more visual..), so keep it up.

Please read the thread more carefully before making comments which contribute very little, except to let people who disagree with you feel insulted.

@Antara, I also think Anet are very good at listening to the community, which is why I worry that they are too good at it, so to speak. Every complaint or problem or idea raised by the community has to be subjected to critical analysis by the devs to determine firstly how genuinely valid it is, and secondly how best to solve the issue while remaining true to the designers own beliefs and vision for the best game they can make. I fear that because of time constraints Anet tends to rush for the first solution to present itself in an effort to keep people happy, which has muddled their thinking when it comes to the design of their own game.

I know it isnt easy, its probably the hardest thing for a designer of anything to do but like I said, there are many things in the the original release of GWII that indicate Anet can do it. You talk about the community being split 50/50 and how it is interesting which way it will go. What about what Anets devs think? Do they not get a say anymore? Personally I dont care at all about what the community wants, and I include myself in that. I want to see the game that anet wants to make and I am speaking up only because I feel that the one they are currently making is not that game.

I look at ArenaNet as the overseers’ of the game, more so than the ones who decide what to do. Granted, a lot of background politics plays a role, but ultimately it’s about what sells, and the only reason something sells, is because people want it.

So if they cut out the players, or move players comments/feedbacks to the backburner, then they could shift the game in a direction and not know players are very unhappy about it, leading to a “point of no return” where the game looses its majority and is shutdown or bought out.

Now I’m not saying that the developers as individuals shouldn’t have any say so, because they are part of the players as well.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Thanks for the feedback everyone and please keep it coming. Personally, I find that one of the hardest parts of being a desginer on GW2 Live is coming to terms with the fact that not every update will please every player. We do our best to deliver appealing content with enough variety to keep as many people as satisfied as possible. And If there’s one thing we can do consistently, it’s improving the experience of said content each time. I think we made some great strides with the Jubilee. I think we have a lot of room to keep growing. But our team isn’t done yet. We’ve got some exciting things coming later this month. Things you’ve never seen in this game before.

But in the mean time, please keep telling us what you’re thinking. We are listening. Not only to what you’re saying but also to what you’re not. The very first living world team actually did the thing some of you have called for. Some 40 or so permanent events were added around the game in our very first content update. They were met with little interest or fanfare. Granted, Halloween may have stolen the show. But those events are still in the game today. I’ve seen very little reaction to them, however, positive or negative. Despite this, there are many events I would still like to add. Many zones and bosses I would love to revisit. As we get better at the living world, I strongly suspect we’ll have room to get around to them as well. Assuming that’s what our players really want. You are all the second half of the collaborative process, so thanks for helping!

Dear Anthony~

Every update will not please every player. Just looking at the wide range of time available, skillsets, preference for group or solo play or instanced or open world content, etc. of your players and you can see that is an impossible expectation and one you should get out of your cute but silly little head immediately.

All you can strive for is to please the most amount of people by providing a good spread of activities. I think you guys are hitting it out of the ballpark with your constant attention to the game and frequent updates and I am appreciative of your innovative approach to the “stale endgame” issue that faces all MMOs.

Also, I am quite intrigued by this “things you’ve never seen in this game before” comment. I love that this game keeps surprising me and look forward to each update. Thanks for all the hard work and keeping things interesting for us

Antara.3189:

I look at ArenaNet as the overseers’ of the game, more so than the ones who decide what to do. Granted, a lot of background politics plays a role, but ultimately it’s about what sells, and the only reason something sells, is because people want it.

So if they cut out the players, or move players comments/feedbacks to the backburner, then they could shift the game in a direction and not know players are very unhappy about it, leading to a “point of no return” where the game looses its majority and is shutdown or bought out.

Now I’m not saying that the developers as individuals shouldn’t have any say so, because they are part of the players as well.

I did not mean to imply (and certainly did not say) that they should cut out player feedback, or consider it unimportant in any way but they have to analyze it and judge it far better than I feel there is any evidence of their doing at the moment. They have to use it to further their vision by finding solutions to player problems that also convince players of their way of doing things. They have to be leaders, not followers.

You say you see the devs as more overseers than decision makers, I have to say (and Im sure you didn’t mean it as such at all but still) that I feel this is incredibly insulting to the devs. They conceived and crafted this game, painstakingly, over many years. Every piece of artwork, every bit of lore, all of the concepts, code and pixels owe existence to them. They are the creators. Can you name one great game, or movie, or song, or painting or building or sculpture or any piece of art at all that has come about without a large amount of creative freedom for the artist? And do you think so little of Anet that if they made the best game they could make it would not be popular?

A good designer will make what the client asks for, to a very high standard, and the client will be happy but a great designer will give the client not necessarily what they asked for but what they actually wanted and needed all along. A car, not a faster horse. An ipod, not a walkman. I think Anet could be great designers but they have to want to do that more than they want to keep players in the game (not that they should not want that as well but it is a matter of priorities). If Anet just want to make a game which keeps making money as long as possible, well, thats a much easier goal I think.

I completely disagree. I’ve had a complete blast with this update! One of the most fun for me so far, though I’ve enjoyed all of them.

Webba.3071:

Antara.3189:

I look at ArenaNet as the overseers’ of the game, more so than the ones who decide what to do. Granted, a lot of background politics plays a role, but ultimately it’s about what sells, and the only reason something sells, is because people want it.

So if they cut out the players, or move players comments/feedbacks to the backburner, then they could shift the game in a direction and not know players are very unhappy about it, leading to a “point of no return” where the game looses its majority and is shutdown or bought out.

Now I’m not saying that the developers as individuals shouldn’t have any say so, because they are part of the players as well.

I did not mean to imply (and certainly did not say) that they should cut out player feedback, or consider it unimportant in any way but they have to analyze it and judge it far better than I feel there is any evidence of their doing at the moment. They have to use it to further their vision by finding solutions to player problems that also convince players of their way of doing things. They have to be leaders, not followers.

You say you see the devs as more overseers than decision makers, I have to say (and Im sure you didn’t mean it as such at all but still) that I feel this is incredibly insulting to the devs. They conceived and crafted this game, painstakingly, over many years. Every piece of artwork, every bit of lore, all of the concepts, code and pixels owe existence to them. They are the creators. Can you name one great game, or movie, or song, or painting or building or sculpture or any piece of art at all that has come about without a large amount of creative freedom for the artist? And do you think so little of Anet that if they made the best game they could make it would not be popular?

A good designer will make what the client asks for, to a very high standard, and the client will be happy but a great designer will give the client not necessarily what they asked for but what they actually wanted and needed all along. A car, not a faster horse. An ipod, not a walkman. I think Anet could be great designers but they have to want to do that more than they want to keep players in the game (not that they should not want that as well but it is a matter of priorities). If Anet just want to make a game which keeps making money as long as possible, well, thats a much easier goal I think.

I didn’t mean it as they are not the decision makers, but the overall wish of the genre should be what decides what goes into a product. It’s nothing against their hard work or efforts, this is a business, and like any other, supply and demand is very prevalent. They make the goods, we buy the goods. I’m their client, not their employee, so I see them as the overseers’ of the product I purchased. I give them feedback and recommendations of what I feel could be improved.

Many, many movies cost big bucks, but if the movie is a bust, it’s a bust. In the end all their hard work and visions rely on what the fanbase wants. Nothing against anyone.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Kal Spiro.9745:

The 14th achievement IS the meta, so no, there aren’t. I have done 3 dailies and 5 LS achievements, I am at 8 and there are exactly 8 left for me to do. What does that tell you?

The meta achievement does not count to the 16, why would it? YOu need 16 other achievements to get it, how could you get 16 if the 16th was only available if you already got 16?
And no, I did get no point for doing that yesterday, since I had my tab open before and after I did the torchrun and didn’t give anything for that. I later got a point for doing all the runs, but not for the daily. Do you finally understand that it was bugged or do I have to write it down yet another time in different words?

You can write it down all you want. It doesn’t, apparently, help your understanding of what I’m telling you, nor what you are actually telling me. Believe what you want, though, there is no bug. You missed one all on your own. Sorry for you.

tl;dr
like anise said to logan “its not permanent, so stop crying”
worst drama post ive ever seen
go play wow or some other crap

this patch was good as it brought few good permanent stuff like champion loot bags and wallet, on the other hand it f@cks up almost all prices on trading post :P

i am suprised by the easy way to farm now :P if i want to get cobalt for example i can switch between 3 servers and farm 1 czempion almost without any delays ; D
but because i know arena net so much i think there will be another anty-farm mechanism on this case :P

Antara.3189:

I didn’t mean it as they are not the decision makers, but the overall wish of the genre should be what decides what goes into a product. It’s nothing against their hard work or efforts, this is a business, and like any other, supply and demand is very prevalent. They make the goods, we buy the goods. I’m their client, not their employee, so I see them as the overseers’ of the product I purchased. I give them feedback and recommendations of what I feel could be improved.

Many, many movies cost big bucks, but if the movie is a bust, it’s a bust. In the end all their hard work and visions rely on what the fanbase wants. Nothing against anyone.

Im enjoying our discussion very much, thank you! Its more interesting than the other one about who likes this update and who doesnt. I take your point about market forces, but I think you give far too much power to the consumers in the process of design. Did (to pick a random example) the movie Titanic make so much money because James Cameron made something people wanted to see? Or did he make a very good movie which, as a result, made lots of people want to go and see it? I find it difficult to believe that the movie goers who paid their money to make that movie so lucrative for all involved had a lot to do with the writing of the script and the directing and the acting and so on. And while there are some quite bad movies that make a lot of money, and some very good ones that dont make very much, generally speaking terrible movies bomb. And generally the terrible movies are those which have been made for the audience, for the sole purpose of making money, rather then for some other, better purpose. That new Lone Ranger movie is a perfect example.

Its a bit different with MMOs since, especially with the way Anet are doing it, they are essentially unfinished at launch. Its almost like the parts of the game designed before launch are the developers bit and then everything after the launch gets designed by the community. Which is actually a very interesting concept to build a game around, thought it lends itself far more towards an open world emerging gameplay type of mmo rather than the themepark GW2 is increasingly becoming (themepark is not meant as a slur here).

Since GW2 was not built on this idea, however, I still think too much community participation in the design process is a bad thing if you are trying to make a good game. Especially in GW2s current situation where the pre and post release content are really starting to drift a very long way apart.

Consider the end result of your scenario. Anet chooses one of the 50% and listens to them more or less exclusively when creating new content. They lose half their playerbase as a result. Do you think that will be good for profits? I think they have to be smarter than that, and convince us to follow their lead.

edit – Do you really not think that a designer or developer has any power to convince people to do something? To change their actions through genuine skill and vision? The only reason I play GW2 at all is because back before the betas when they were talking a lot about their ideas for game design and mmos, when the manifesto was going around all the news sites and generating a lot of interest, Anet convinced me that they had the ability to create a different, and better mmo than any previously. I think in a lot of ways they have succeeded and succeeded not only in spite of but specifically because they did not try to create a wow clone, which would be the logical choice if giving the mmo fanbase exactly what they ask for was the best choice. I hope that they get the chance to keep improving that vision because it would be a shame to see some other mmo pull a Steve Jobs on them and take all the credit, and the cash, for making their brilliant ideas really work.

I agree with most of what the OP said. There are a few points to which I disagree, or rather feel that while they are not as polished as could be(i.e. dynamic events in endless loops), they are still great additions to the genre. I’ll also say that this Living Story is pretty good so far, on a whole. I liked the logan vs robot thing…the gladiator arenas.

I agree that shuttling everyone to the pavilion is a monumental failure at making the world feel alive. Everyone is in the pavilion or running around divinities reach(which is a nice break from boring Lion’s Arch). The world itself is empty and dull because you corner everyone to run around one or two areas.

I think that more currencies is a monumental failure. Why..oh why. Even if it isnt a legit currency, you still buy stuff with it. Why?! Im so sick of more currencies, unique currencies…I no longer have the energy to complain about it.

The fact that this living story has ZERO connection to last month, is a monumental failure at even telling a story.

And in general, I am so tired of living stories. I want traditional content updates. The old days, when..you know, we got content that mattered in the game more than a month. Im not talking about perma content, Im talking about content that MATTERED. So what if I can re-visit Moa races next month, or two months from now. That content does not matter in the grand scheme of lore, the world, life and death struggles of the NPCs and denizens of Tyria. Content that matters…Like zhaitan. Like more dragons. Like rebellous Charr and human seperatists. Inquest… Content that matters.

I’m finishing up map completion one one character and one character only for the time being…just two POs and a Vista in Eternal BG. I already have the gear look for my main, the weapons I want… After I finish up map completion, Im going to make sure I get the monthly done, living story achievemnts done, and then give another game my undevoted attention for the next week or two.

And I think this will be the way of it for me. Throughout the course of the month get some dallies done, monthly, and living story achievements..then stop logging in for the rest of the month. And I know I’ll tire of that eventually, so I’ll probably stop playing all together unless we stop with the living story and get back to work with the amazing game that we started out with.

I am ok with this update. I had some fun the first day, which is unusual for most of the Living World stuff, I stopped even looking at most of it after the Southsun debacle.

I peek in, if others are having fun, I go back to my own wanderings around the world.

I have reached a plateau on my “Achievements” panel, because most of the stuff left is stuff I don’t enjoy in game.

I could think of some things that would be fun for the game to do for those like me who do not enjoy grinding an event for profit all day, but the game is not geared to that, it IS geared towards a new grind every Living World Update. Grinding farming type people are the user base. I am the odd man out.

I like the wallet. Other people appear to be having fun.

@OP don’t worry, no one likes the update, everyone who actually plays this content does it either for the mini or the legendary bosses farming.

It’s sad that instead of trying to come up with fun events they try to get their numbers up by rewarding or better said bribing people to play certain content. It’s much easier to add loot or minis rather than come up with ideas unfortunately

Like most other people I feel that the constant LS updates are a bit exhausting. Personally, the last living story events that I got to fully enjoy were Halloween and Wintersday. The 2 week updates are a bit hasty, they feel empty and are overwhelming to casuals (like me). I truly love the idea of the living story, but maybe the team should focus on more developed and in depth content that feels like it has a bit more meaning to the overall narrative. Releasing new, more in depth content that can be interesting to those that play more often and enjoyable for casuals with longer intervals (once a month, 4 weeks etc.) rather than the constant 2 week updates could benefit the game and story as a whole. Basically, I feel that Anet should focus on living story quality before the quantity of updates.

@Antara, Sorry Im getting very wordy here. I have thought of a way to be more concise. You say that the only reason something sells is because people want it. This, I agree with. But I ask you what is the reason why people want something? I promise you it is not just because they first asked for it.

I think this living story update has a lot of merits. The gauntlet is a lot of fun. The crown pavilion is interesting, if laggy. The balloons are a neat concept; it’s nice to see new events spring up around them.

I don’t like that this update leaves me feeling like I’m playing alone. All of the content I’ve experienced so far pretty much requires that you run alone. Yes, there is a giant zerg, but that’s not something you do with a group of friends. It feels more like something you do when everyone on your friendslist is offline and you want to grind out some achievement bonuses (which really shouldn’t be a thing to do…).

I’d really like to see some content that rewards me for playing with one or two good friends, rather than having to play solo or run in a giant zerg with people I don’t know, which might as well be running solo.

Very few of these living story updates have let me connect with my friends, and I haven’t made any new friends while playing them. MMOs are a social environment, but GW2 has been becoming increasingly hostile, competitive and anti-social. I’d love to see some living story updates that have you cooperating with your friends rather than running off to grind ad nauseum.

the living story is junk massive junk give us epic raids beter fights something mistical something fun even if its grind but to have that feeling that we doing something epic this is just crap

I love jump puzzles, mini-dungeons, and new events! I have no need for more mini-games like crab toss. Please Anet, don’t let people’s dislike of mini-games keep you from making your zones richer and more fun!

Webba.3071:

Im enjoying our discussion very much, thank you! Its more interesting than the other one about who likes this update and who doesnt. I take your point about market forces, but I think you give far too much power to the consumers in the process of design. Did (to pick a random example) the movie Titanic make so much money because James Cameron made something people wanted to see? Or did he make a very good movie which, as a result, made lots of people want to go and see it? I find it difficult to believe that the movie goers who paid their money to make that movie so lucrative for all involved had a lot to do with the writing of the script and the directing and the acting and so on. And while there are some quite bad movies that make a lot of money, and some very good ones that dont make very much, generally speaking terrible movies bomb. And generally the terrible movies are those which have been made for the audience, for the sole purpose of making money, rather then for some other, better purpose. That new Lone Ranger movie is a perfect example.

Its a bit different with MMOs since, especially with the way Anet are doing it, they are essentially unfinished at launch. Its almost like the parts of the game designed before launch are the developers bit and then everything after the launch gets designed by the community. Which is actually a very interesting concept to build a game around, thought it lends itself far more towards an open world emerging gameplay type of mmo rather than the themepark GW2 is increasingly becoming (themepark is not meant as a slur here).

Since GW2 was not built on this idea, however, I still think too much community participation in the design process is a bad thing if you are trying to make a good game. Especially in GW2s current situation where the pre and post release content are really starting to drift a very long way apart.

Consider the end result of your scenario. Anet chooses one of the 50% and listens to them more or less exclusively when creating new content. They lose half their playerbase as a result. Do you think that will be good for profits? I think they have to be smarter than that, and convince us to follow their lead.

I can’t really compare movies to this video game sense GW2 is constantly changing, growing, but on a supply/demand topic, I found it relevant.

This next bit is off topic, but I wanted to state it before I started.
Amazingly the MMO fanbase has grown beyond its roots. It used to be a very core group of players who all wanted to take gaming to the next level. It has now left that audience and welcomed itself to casual players, moms, kids, etc. The MMO Genre is now essentially being divided into two different genres (imo). High fantasy, challenging, medieval, where raids, dungeons, gear grinding, etc is what players want, to cosmetics, casual events, mini games, gear cap. Two different styles for two different fanbases. Unfortunately I think GW2 is being caught in the middle, being pulled from both sides (Hey, join the “darkside”- serious, no no join the “good side-casual”).

They are definitely trying to appease both crowds but eventually the game takes its course, and not everyone will be happy. Part of the reason you see huge uproars from GW1 folks (including some griefs from myself).

Even though it might not had been intended, but the Election between Evon and Kiel I think definitely defines the split between the fanbase. The players who mostly supported Evon were into mischief, action, interesting content (players who prefer high fantasy,medieval, hardcore content) vs Kiel who I think represents the newew mmo fanbase. Of course you have your players who voted for different reasons, but if you followed a lot of the posts, you could see the trend.

Either way I think the election did play an important role in identifying where the majority of players want to see the future of the game go, but maybe not as surprising is the fact that it was a close split.
Personally I think the game is going to continue on the trend on which its going, more mini-games, shiny cosmetics, casual environment. No big deal really, but it will loose my attention going forward if what I say goes true. One good thing about this (well, maybe) is the point of Gaming itself is now becoming a bigger market, now more and more people are growing up around games, and even looking back to the kids growing up in the 80s, are now adults with kids, careers,etc. The market is far from the hardcore group it used to be.

(I will respond to your latter after I post this)

In regards to your edit.

Players like to be acknowledged, and when a “red tag” responds to their post, reply, etc. They are naturally thrilled (generally speaking).

I also can note that generally people will follow what a developer says, recommends, etc.

But I can also say, the players who push back on the devs, are the ones who came from the “hardcore gaming” roots who want to enjoy the challenging, fantasy, medieval style games from the past. (which is probably very controversial in itself)

They take gaming to the next level, and they expect content to be precise, but challenging, and in the end rewarding.

Darn tough crowd, but they fight for a cause. :P

The ‘Living Story’ storyline is disjointed and incomprehensible. It lacks focus and a clear plot theme. It seems to be completely unrelated to the game’s core content. It seems as if the Living Story writers are attempting to create a virtual, living novel. However, the way a story is conveyed in a novel does not translate well to a mmorpg. By the time the in-game plot is fully revealed, the players will have forgotten most of it and will lose interest.

Many of the living story characters are unremarkable and entirely forgettable. I wasn’t here for the first appearance of Canach and his second appearance did nothing to explain anything surrounding the character, whatsoever. Canach was just some cold, random plot mechanic, akin to the ‘swing away’ Louisville Slugger as was presented in M. Night Shyamalan’s 2002 film ‘Signs’ .
Evon Gnashwho?
Ellen Kiel…oh, that crazy, angry woman from Southsun?
Marjory…evil Mae West?!?! Kitana from Mortal Kombat? Who knows and who cares? She is generic as all get-out.
Lord Kaswhat? Lady Farsomething? Did they even do anything in Southsun?

I don’t like how the entire story isn’t told, exclusively, in-game. I don’t do 3rd party websites, digital short stories or book store novels. I want the entire story to be conveyed entirely in-game. If you want Ree Soesbee to write novels, that’s fine. But make those novels available and readable, in-game.

Dailies…I hate dailies. I’ve hated dailies since Netherwing Ledge all those years ago. Dailies do nothing to add immersion and seem to be more of a mechanic to lead players out into a game world…a game world they would have no need to venture into otherwise.

Idk, those are just a few of my complaints.

I agree about Canach, he was a minor character who didn’t stand out and was very forgettable.
If people don’t know about Evon Gnashblade, it’s from not exploring. Tons of people go to the LA TP, and see him there.
Ellen Kiel has been in the story consistently and there wasn’t anything forgettable about her.
They did a fantastic job with Marjory’s film noir character and I’m sure people still remember her.
People that have done the human plotline would know Kasmir and Faren. I think the introduction on Southsun for those that didn’t know was acceptable. I think if you weren’t just rushing through for achievements, you would know who they are.

I strongly disagree with the ire over the short stories. They’re really well written and convey content in a way that would not be nearly as good in-game. What you’re asking for would be long, resource-intensive cutscenes. I am not alone in applauding the short story work, but I would concede that it would be nice if we got an in-game email letting us know that a story was up or even making it possible to read through the game.

I do not want to be spoon-fed stories and content. The same people asking for that are demonstrating such short attention span that they would quickly get bored if they got what they’re asking for.

What the kitten are honor tokens? Now you’re just making things up. There are just enough currencies for the different reward systems out there and it’s perfectly fine. This means that people have different ways of getting the same stuff. If you don’t have a ton of gold, but you play WvW, you can substitute Badges of Honor for ascended accessories. I’ll admit that it’s important that they don’t get carried away with currency systems, but I think the current brouhaha is melodramatic.

I have to agree that the Dailies are currently somewhat grindy, but often, you will fulfill the dailies just by playing the game. If people like grinding, then they can do that as well. I’m not sure how to improve this and I’m eager to see some suggestions.

tl;dr: ANet, I’ll be patient, bring the Living Story together and make it good. Don’t spoonfeed us content, keep publishing short stories, but let us know about them and make them accessible in the game in an immersive way.
Are you hitting the nail every time? No. But you’re getting close and here’s one player that appreciates the continuous stream of fun. Perhaps try to provide a broader variety of content so the people that want to grind can do so, but casual players can get something just as fulfilling.

If you really want a ‘Living World’ , let’s get it on, ArenaNet.

Add land for players to purchase, build keeps/farms and to upgrade.

Add Hunting, Fishing and Farming. Let us grow, tend and harvest crops.

Add the ability to add NPCs to your property…guards, farmers, blacksmiths, etc.

Add guild halls and player owned shops.

Add player driven events that reward other players for participating. For example, I could send my wheat out on Pack Dolyaks, from my farm to market, through a GUI drop-down menu. If they make it alive, I get gold for grain. If other players step in to guard my dynamic event, they get a share of the profit in the form of gold, karma, etc.

GIVE US SEASONS! The world’s look is beautiful but all too stagnant. Better weather effects and a night that is actually dark would be nice, too. Give us a reason to use our new found torches.

More focus on zone by zone storytelling through progressive dynamic events and less focus on world/player base-funneling, one-time events. It’s nice to have large things happen in the world, on occasion, but temporary content is better suited to holidays than cohesive story lines.

It would also be nice to have a concise, in-game calendar to clarify what is considered to be annual/recurring ‘holiday’ content. It seems that it would be much less confusing and easier to follow the Living Story content with such an event calendar.

I think adding DEs to the open world is deffinitely improving the game in a way players care about, I think part of the reason you didn’t get much feedback about it is because 40 events across every map isn’t very focused. There is no problem to this in terms of gameplay (more events in the open world makes it feel alive and gives players something fun to do in the area) but it’s hard to feel the impact of an update which is very easy to miss. I don’t know all of the events in Caldeon Forest today. If you added more tomorrow, I wouldn’t know it was new (unless it was themed to the story like the balloons). That doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate playing new events when I go through the world on other characters, I’m just rarely going to notice they are new.

One thing you can do to increase visibility would be to have new events as chains that actually change the world a bit more. Things which flow across the map, things which tell a story. Things which might add a structure that wasn’t there last month. A single event will always have value to players who want a deep and enriched world to explore, especially when levelling, but it’s going to be hard to get noticed.

Another problem with even good events added to the open world is the rewards are terrible. PvDoor in WvW is generally more profitable than DEs, so are dungeons and chain farming in Orr. Champion loot is a good step in the right direction but I’d like to see more done with karma. More karma vendors tied to event chains with unique loot. That way players have a reason to do specific events to access their loot. Maybe give them items that can only be purchased in limited quantities but have increased value. You could even throw in a random value to it (ugh RNG) where sometimes the karma vendor will sell you a special item that it doesn’t always sell. Karma is a relatively worthless currency and it’s the primary reward from events if you are level 80. Karma vendors can easily be tied to events and I’d love to see more uses for karma which help make exploring the world and unlocking different vendors a rewarding experience.

Weather effects/ seasons, and having to use the torches at the darkest nights (add to it unpredictable and dangeours enemy encounters) would be pretty cool. Exciting gameplay and excellent world immersion.

Elbegast.6970:

If you really want a ‘Living World’ , let’s get it on, ArenaNet.

Add land for players to purchase, build keeps/farms and to upgrade.

Add Hunting, Fishing and Farming. Let us grow, tend and harvest crops.

Add the ability to add NPCs to your property…guards, farmers, blacksmiths, etc.

Add guild halls and player owned shops.

Add player driven events that reward other players for participating. For example, I could send my wheat out on Pack Dolyaks, from my farm to market, through a GUI drop-down menu. If they make it alive, I get gold for grain. If other players step in to guard my dynamic event, they get a share of the profit in the form of gold, karma, etc.

GIVE US SEASONS! The world’s look is beautiful but all too stagnant. Better weather effects and a night that is actually dark would be nice, too. Give us a reason to use our new found torches.

More focus on zone by zone storytelling through progressive dynamic events and less focus on world/player base-funneling, one-time events. It’s nice to have large things happen in the world, on occasion, but temporary content is better suited to holidays than cohesive story lines.

It would also be nice to have a concise, in-game calendar to clarify what is considered to be annual/recurring ‘holiday’ content. It seems that it would be much less confusing and easier to follow the Living Story content with such an event calendar.

Someone give this person a job!

Fiontar.4695:

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You are entitled to your opinion on the pavillion but did you even try the gauntlet? Did you play Super Adventure Box? Did you play the Aetherblade Dungeon or Frost and Flame Dungeon? Did you get to see how cool the mechanics were in the Zephyr area two weeks ago? Did you try the permanent Aetherblade JP? how about Southsun Survival? I could go on.

I understand not liking one aspect but you are trying to reduce that one thing you don’t like down into the whole game being representative of that one thing and that is simply not the case.

Antara.3189:

I can’t really compare movies to this video game sense GW2 is constantly changing, growing, but on a supply/demand topic, I found it relevant.

You are right, its probably not the best comparison for precisely the reason we both stated, mmos are never really finished but there is one distinction I wanted to make which applies to both and that is the difference between the reason for creating something and the creation of that thing itself.

Definitely the reason something gets made or funded is based on supply and demand, but that is separate from the actual creation of the thing itself. The Avengers movie came about entirely because some companies saw the possibility of a massive profit from it but the people actually making the movie were not the fans from which the money would come, but professionals, and they made their own creative decisions on it. In that sense there is a massive advantage for things like movies and traditional games which people dont really get to see until they are finished. To be honest I dont really know what the solution for mmos is.

Antara.3189:

Amazingly the MMO fanbase has grown beyond its roots. It used to be a very core group of players who all wanted to take gaming to the next level. It has now left that audience and welcomed itself to casual players, moms, kids, etc. The MMO Genre is now essentially being divided into two different genres (imo). High fantasy, challenging, medieval, where raids, dungeons, gear grinding, etc is what players want, to cosmetics, casual events, mini games, gear cap. Two different styles for two different fanbases. Unfortunately I think GW2 is being caught in the middle, being pulled from both sides (Hey, join the “darkside”- serious, no no join the “good side-casual”).

They are definitely trying to appease both crowds but eventually the game takes its course, and not everyone will be happy. Part of the reason you see huge uproars from GW1 folks (including some griefs from myself).

I think this is a pretty much accurate assessment of the current situation except that I am not sure it is quite so simple as casual vs hardcore. For example by history and hobby I am definitely in the hardcore camp even though the amount of hours I put into the game is comparable to most casuals.

Its probably a dilemma facing all mmos these days though in that the hardcore market, which previously was the entirety of the market, is dwindling but the casual market is not very loyal. And they do generally both want very different things. Which is why I think any mmo developer really needs to innovate above everything else if they want to have a significant number of players from either group. There is no good solution among any of the existing systems.

Antara.3189:

Personally I think the game is going to continue on the trend on which its going, more mini-games, shiny cosmetics, casual environment. No big deal really, but it will loose my attention going forward if what I say goes true. One good thing about this (well, maybe) is the point of Gaming itself is now becoming a bigger market, now more and more people are growing up around games, and even looking back to the kids growing up in the 80s, are now adults with kids, careers,etc. The market is far from the hardcore group it used to be.

Again, I think you are pretty spot on, and probably right about the future of the game. If it does go in that direction it will lose my attention too, I suspect. Its amusing though that the people who dislike this content seem to be getting labeled as a vocal minority of very casual players, which is not only a contradiction in terms but also probably just plain wrong.

Having said that I still dont understand the logic behind the nature of this content because it seems to me that it is not suited to either casuals or hardcore. The nature of the new additions – themeparks, minigames, minatures, festivals and so on is aimed very much at casuals but if it is for casuals why make it temporary? Casuals by nature will miss certain times and not play very much the rest of the time, making it hard for them to participate fully. And if it is content for hardcore players why is it generally so easy and simple, and safe feeling without any of the effort, energy, community building, raiding and epic fantasy that would satisfy that group?

In trying to please both groups they are creating content which is unsuited for either, really. Which is why I say I feel that they have muddled thinking, and that it would be helpful for them to take a step back from the yammering of the community (on both sides) and consider the game more objectively, from their own point of view.

i have to agree i dont like this update either and the reason one word dificulty specificly gauntlet this month i think will be the first time i am unable to get all acheivments done coz i simply dont have all the classes needed for some of those gauntlet acheivments i dont wana spend the next 2 days banging my head off a brick wall trying ot stop chomper eating some meat with my war coz he just dosent have the skills nesacery for it nor am i willing ot rush lvling a theif and paying alot of gold equiping him with the apropriate gear runes sigils ect to get through it

If there was something to change and gauntlet was to become permanent I was thinking that it would be good to be also made form players from all range of levels:
so: 1-10, 11-20,… 71-79, 80.
It could be very interesting to see how character without all skills and any fancy runes or sigils fare againts difficult opponent. And, what’s important to me – it would provide content across all our leveling time. And developers could improve the fights, add new opponents, just do it even better and everyone could enjoy it whenever he would like.

Pretty much agree I’m sick of holiday events start telling a story for the living story. Also how about giving us some more personal story for are characters.

Webba.3071:

Having said that I still dont understand the logic behind the nature of this content because it seems to me that it is not suited to either casuals or hardcore. The nature of the new additions – themeparks, minigames, minatures, festivals and so on is aimed very much at casuals but if it is for casuals why make it temporary?

I think the whole temporary content thing has 2 sides to it.

1. The optimistic ArenaNet-style of “we have a glorious vision about an MMO where the world really is living and breathing – if you blink, you might miss something” game design. I think they have mostly good intentions with this style of content.

2. Making the content temporary allows them to take the “quantity over quality” approach:

- Mini-games that are full of bugs, glitches and exploits that don’t need to be fixed, because they’ll be gone in a few weeks. (We’ll see if these bugs get fixed now that mini-games are on a rotation.)

- Achievements that – a lot of the time – just send you back doing stuff you’ve already done… but now with a certain new NPC at the end, or a kite, or a cache, or no difference whatsoever but you have the x/y/z buff while doing it!

- It gets people chasing after stuff (achievements, minis, cosmetics) that they normally wouldn’t, because it will be gone in a few weeks. In other words, it artificially makes the content seem more valuable than it actually is, and makes people look past the fact that much of it is actually quite low quality, poorly designed, minimally tested and often not enjoyable. I certainly wouldn’t be pressing F 300 times in different parts of the world under any other circumstances.

I totally agree with the OP. The game is seperated in two parts for me. The release part which I love and will continue playing as long as there is no other mmoRPG out there to hook me and the (not so) Living Story part, which started very shallow and got some quality, but in the (for me and other) totally wrong direction.

There are players who love story, get themselves involved in the game and its world and really like their charakters and want to see them grow, not for some levels but for years. And there are players who are out for quick action, quick money and shiny items, the more the better.

Guild Wars 2 has hooked me by its fan base of GW1 players and its Manifesto. As I started to explore the world, the lore and the somehow fractured personal story parts, I fell in love to the rich details, to the art, the show of the game. Dynamic quests, dynamic combat, cool looking dungeons. And I had virtually stored the money for the first expansion of such a deep gaming experince.

But… then the Living Story was introduced with big words and little content. It gains pace and what it offers is for the second type of gamers I mentioned. As I started to play, I felt home in a game, where it does not matter to have the most shiny item. The living story is the opposite of that. It does not offer rich story, it offers skins’n’boxes for gems and a little bit of not related story to make them not completely out of the box. All living the story seems to be about, is generating money for the shop, kitten ing off players who care for the world, the game and the lore.

Now we have the eldorado for the type of player, who is happy for generating loot only. (this update) Great for them (really) but the total face slap for those who care. The remaining question is: which type of player is the right one for your GW2 ArenaNet? You won’t get both happy for long. What type of game you are intending to build? The one presented to us on release day, or the game this LS stuff is heading to?