Guild Wars 2

I just hope that we won’t be getting amusement park and cosplay costumes.

I’m afraid what we will get next with actual pace of getting loot. People want more and more and are getting more and more. There will be time to stop all this, because is it possible to create every update 1,2,3,4 new weapon and armor sets?
What will be new method of acquiring them? If host of players are to be pleased with that we must gather them and give them fun they want – happy zerking without effort and gazillion of loot as a reward instantly – just not to get them bored, dear God.

And players who take on challenge get few achievment points and mini.

I really like this update. I am having a great time playing in the Pavilion and doing balloon events out in the world.

Like many, however, I would enjoy more permanent content. I also would like events that weren’t always dynamic. Missions in GW were instanced. I would like to see more of that on top of the temporary content. I like both.

I see both sides that are in conflict here, but I think the one thing missing in most of the posts is that most posters are just looking at things a bit selfishly.

There have been a lot of new content that I didn’t enjoy, but friends of mine thought it was great! The opposite has also been true.

I didn’t complain about the content I didn’t like because I knew others had a great experience with it and I knew my time would come around.

As Anthony said, you cannot please everyone all the time. The part that upsets me with many of the posters is that they believe that if they don’t like the content, then “it is horrible.” That isn’t true. It is just horrible to them. Others may really appreciate it.

We are all entitled to our opinions. I like this update yet the OP does not. Both views are valid. Neither is right nor wrong.

The part that is wrong are the attacks on ANet and other players. If you like the new content, don’t call the ones that don’t ‘whiners.’ If you hate the new content, don’t attack the developers and players who enjoy it.

Voice your opinions, but realize that your opinions are just that. Opinions. You are not right. You are not wrong. Just be civil. All of the arguing, fighting, name calling and egos are wearing thin.

Kal Spiro.9745:

People really need to give this Manifesto a rest. The Manifesto is the shtick that every Development team has always proclaimed before the game actually became what it is.

Some of the stuff they said they were able to bring to the live game, but some of the stuff never was. Give it a rest, it’s not a real thing and never was. It was designed to get your interest and attention, and it succeeded akittens only purpose.

It was the set of ideals and aspirations that drove the game to be such an incredible achievement in MMO design at launch. If they had continued to find ways to realize more and more of those aspirations and ideals, the game would have continued to evolve and improve, solidifying the new paradigm they created and forcing every other MMO design studio to play catch up.

Abandoning the quest to realize those ideals is why most of what has been produced over the last year has been a complete waste of resources and damaged the ongoing potential for the game.

To “give the manifesto a rest” is to give up on greatness and embrace mediocrity.

Honestly, I was skeptical of the Living Story stuff in general for a few months, but now that they’re moving into a steady stream of new content being introduced every two weeks, I’m liking what I’m seeing. In other MMOs, my play experience has come down to hitting endgame content then not knowing what to do besides repeat the same dungeon runs over and over. I’d just log in, look at how cool my toon looks, check the broker and then stand around doing nothing, while being in denial about the fact that I couldn’t think of anything worth doing.

Living Story changes that for me in a big way. Sure, we’ll have some updates that don’t tickle my particular fancy, but that’s fine, because we have novelty every two weeks, which means something else to learn/explore/enjoy. I think ANet’s strategy is shaping up to potentially be a decent fix to the ‘players devouring content’ problem that all MMOs have had, and for my playstyle, a much better one than the endless gear treadmill.

Grileenor.1497:

I totally agree with the OP. The game is seperated in two parts for me. The release part which I love and will continue playing as long as there is no other mmoRPG out there to hook me and the (not so) Living Story part, which started very shallow and got some quality, but in the (for me and other) totally wrong direction.

There are players who love story, get themselves involved in the game and its world and really like their charakters and want to see them grow, not for some levels but for years. And there are players who are out for quick action, quick money and shiny items, the more the better.

Guild Wars 2 has hooked me by its fan base of GW1 players and its Manifesto. As I started to explore the world, the lore and the somehow fractured personal story parts, I fell in love to the rich details, to the art, the show of the game. Dynamic quests, dynamic combat, cool looking dungeons. And I had virtually stored the money for the first expansion of such a deep gaming experince.

But… then the Living Story was introduced with big words and little content. It gains pace and what it offers is for the second type of gamers I mentioned. As I started to play, I felt home in a game, where it does not matter to have the most shiny item. The living story is the opposite of that. It does not offer rich story, it offers skins’n’boxes for gems and a little bit of not related story to make them not completely out of the box. All living the story seems to be about, is generating money for the shop, kitten ing off players who care for the world, the game and the lore.

Now we have the eldorado for the type of player, who is happy for generating loot only. (this update) Great for them (really) but the total face slap for those who care. The remaining question is: which type of player is the right one for your GW2 ArenaNet? You won’t get both happy for long. What type of game you are intending to build? The one presented to us on release day, or the game this LS stuff is heading to?

I agree completely.

I think that gets to the deeper issues here. It’s not that we are selfish and hate content we don’t personally enjoy. There has been content over the past year I didn’t enjoy, but didn’t harm the game and made other people happy.

The problem is that too much of the living story, and other changes, has been very detrimental to the core aspirations and principles the game was designed around. It often feels as if it’s not just a lack of respect for those core ideals at play, but a deliberate effort of some to destroy those principles and reduce the game to another genre clone.

I don’t know what the truth of it is. Is it that the Live team tramples on the soul of the game out of ignorance? Or, is it resentment that the game rejected the established MMO design tropes and paradigm that drives those now at the helm to undo the hard fought gains of those who were able to think outside the box? Are there people at the top who still care for and defend the game’s core principles, or have they gone elsewhere or just given up on constantly fighting their unenlightened co-workers?

No one ever said fulfilling the goals and aspirations of the Manifesto and the core principles established during the long development process would be easy. They gambled on doing something very different than what had been done before. There was always the risk that players wouldn’t appreciate what they were trying to do and the game would fail to be anything more than a niche title. However, the game launched and their ideas paid off in real numbers. The game’s financial success and large, enthralled player base proved it was worth taking those risks.

To then give up on all of that and start acting like they are designing for just any other formulaic MMORPG on the market is just hard to comprehend.

I wish the debate was just over personal content preference. I’ve always been for variety, as long as it doesn’t result in no one being happy. It’s really about whether the game will continue to strive to realize the ideals that made the game so unique, or just give in and become another example of formulaic MMORPG mediocrity.

Elbegast.6970:

I find that I am much less vocal about the areas of the game that I enjoy…. If I am enjoying the game, I am playing it rather than posting here. As a result, when I post my concerns, I am marked as a ‘forum troll’ or a ‘hater’.

The reality is, I love this game….If I didn’t love it, I would say nothing about the aspects that annoy me and I would move on to another game. I see potential here.

Spot on. I spend my time playing, and I almost never visit the forums here. I agree with a lot of the things this person says:

Elbegast.6970:

The ‘Living Story’ storyline is disjointed and incomprehensible. It lacks focus and a clear plot theme. It seems to be completely unrelated to the game’s core content. It seems as if the Living Story writers are attempting to create a virtual, living novel. However, the way a story is conveyed in a novel does not translate well to a mmorpg. By the time the in-game plot is fully revealed, the players will have forgotten most of it and will lose interest.
…
Ellen Kiel…oh, that crazy, angry woman from Southsun?
…
Lord Kaswhat? Lady Farsomething? Did they even do anything in Southsun?

I don’t like how the entire story isn’t told, exclusively, in-game. I don’t do 3rd party websites, digital short stories or book store novels. ….

I have to say the same thing. People were talking about Lord Faren and Lady Kasmeer and I was completely baffled who they were talking about; didn’t meet them until after people were chatting about the mini’s and I realized I was missing a key achievement [talking to the npcs]…. They talked to me for one dialogue and I don’t remember interacting with them otherwise.

I didn’t even make the connection between Ellen Kiel being the crazy southsun lady until reading this exact comment. I just assumed she was a randomly introduced NPC.

I recognized Rox and Braham in the opening ceremonies because I had actually done a full length story instance with them. I really enjoyed that. I actually did the opening ceremony a couple times because I went in it with others, and I caught myself saying “I just love those two” every time I went in. (literally saying it out loud!)

Elbegast.6970:

Currencies are, indeed, out of control. … I would suggest … normalizing all Living Story currencies into a single currency. Call it ‘Black Lion Claim Tickets’ or whatever you like but use them as the sole currency for every future living story update; one currency that players can save up throughout the course of any number of content updates and use to purchase any current or previous living story rewards.

Oh please yes. There is nothing more discouraging than knowing I’ll probably make it 2/3 of the way to collecting whatever new currency has been released, and then see it disappear and made useless. I can’t buy anything but boxes with fortune scraps because I didn’t even make it to 250. The other achievements took all of my time and I didn’t spend much time in the “real world” to acquire kite boxes.

Same with past living world events. I actually really enjoy them, but I have a hard time achieving the achievements in time to get credit/rewards/etc. I don’t play as much as some people do, and I’m not the most skilled player (especially at pvp coughGAUNTLET*cough*] and jumping). In fact, I’m pretty much resigned to not completing the gauntlet because it’s just outside my skill level. But that also means I’ll never get those rewards. Sigh.

Back to the point, I would enjoy living story rewards much better if they were just that: living story reward tokens, not event-specific tokens. If you want to make event specific tokens for immersion purposes, great, but let me convert them 1:1 to generic living story rewards. That way if I see something new that I can’t live without, I can get it. If there was something old that I never got around to getting, I’ll keep working in the future until I can get it.

Having a two week limit to get a particular reward is discouraging when I’m pretty sure I won’t be able to succeed. Even people who are great at that stuff might be discouraged that they had to get their computer fixed for a week and now have to spend ALL their time grinding it as fast as they can to get the rewards.

I realize you want us in game playing as much as possible, but we’re real people with lives and some of us have other obligations. If we miss a bunch of days, we might be screwed, and to me that’s not motivation to skip my other obligations and play every single day, it’s a setup for disappointment.

Ugh it cut me off.

I went back and read the OP’s post, and I agree with many that the balloons being one-way portals is a disappointment. I did expect them to be like vistas.

(as far as the quoted poster’s statement about dailies… I love them. I love having something to try for each day, that is basically part of what I would be doing anyway, but gives a little extra reward if I put some extra focus in to a couple areas).

Anyway, I love the game. I’m spending money on gems regularly – probably more than I’d be spending on a monthly sub’ for another game.

Oh and a side note: I like the new particle effects allowing me to see into the middle of the action, and I have grouped with several folks who expected lag due to the zerg and didn’t experience any. So any lag being experienced is case-by-case. It’s working fine for me and my groupies.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

The very first living world team actually did the thing some of you have called for. Some 40 or so permanent events were added around the game in our very first content update. They were met with little interest or fanfare.

Oh so true. I think the main problem is that 40 new event are so well hidden among the other existing event so that one simply doesn’t notice them. (Frankly, you maybe can’t even tell whether an event you encounter is really new, or whether you just have missed it before.) And, of course, many other player seem to be so obsessed with their quarterly farming revenue that they maybe didn’t notice, either.

So here are my 2 pieces of copper:

Either Colin Johanson or Eric Flannum stated at some point after GamesCom ‘10 that you could not just take a mechanic like dynamic event and put it on top of a standard old-fashioned quest design as some kind of fancy gimmick. You rather have to make dynamic events the core content of your game. (I am obviously paraphrasing, don’t recall the source anymore.) I still agree 100% percent with this assessment. However, I fear you have not yet reached that goal of making them truly the core of your game world.

I once thought 1500+ events would be pretty much. However, considering the huge size of the game world, it turned out that 1500 events are not even close to enough. In some regions of the world, you can still wander for 15 to 30 minutes without anything happening around you, or finding something that could maybe trigger an event. This is especially true for the “in between” areas for levels 15 to 70. Don’t get me wrong, the map design is awesome and I like the exploration, but there is not really a huge sense of “dynamic living world” if nothing is happening. And, ideally, there should be variation or alternatives to the events that are happening, instead of the short cycles of just two or three states that dominate the game.

Another problem are still the open world mega-bosses. Beside the obvious balancing problems of the low level bosses like the Great Jungle Wurm or the Behomth (for Dwayna’s sake, make them survive at least for a minute, there is nothing epic about butchering them at the speed of light like trashmobs) there are still only so few of them. We have what, 25 maps? I say it should be ANets goal to have one such mega-boss on each of the maps. And they should always be the consequence of a lengthy and interesting meta-event chain pushed and triggered by the players, and not something people farm based on a timer. And if you could please take a lesson from your guild mission team and make them necessarily require teamwork to take damage at all (instead of just mindless dps spamming) I would be truly delighted.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

But in the mean time, please keep telling us what you’re thinking.

Well, in that case: Please keep improving the dynamic event system SIGNIFICANTLY. I still believe in the vision dynamic events as presented by you prior to release, e.g., at this wonderful “design a dynamic event workshop”. I still believe that they should be the bread and butter of GW2’s open world. But I am not sure whether ANet themselves still believe in their vision.

~MRA

i also agree with much of what the OP had to say. in particular, i find the growing number of currencies in the game to be totally overwhelming and unnecessary. it’s great that we now have a currency wallet, but the fact that we NEED a currency wallet speaks to a growing problem within the game. special currencies are not bad per-se, but please streamline them. i don’t have the time (or interest) in collecting all these currencies. i also agree that needing special currency AND gold to buy QJ event-specific items is just ridiculous.

as far as dynamic events go, i also desperately want more dynamic events in the world. i am super excited that this release has new events in the world that are tied to the QJ story. that said, i agree with the OP that these events are a bit lackluster in quality (every balloon tower is pretty much the same), but adding events in the world that tie into the living story is a much needed step in the right direction.

one thing the balloon towers do very well is that they serve as a visual representation to the player of the living story within the game world. i think new events benefit from obvious visual clues like the balloon towers: they help lead the player into the story, and also help the player rediscover zones in new ways.

lastly, i think ArenaNet has forgotten that simplicity is sometimes the most elegant solution. there are plenty of simple things that could be done to help this world feel ‘alive’. shops could open and close, taverns could come alive at night, field crops could rotate, animals could migrate, seasons could occur, etc. i have no idea how simple it is to add these things from a programming perspective, but when i think of what makes a world ‘live’ it’s often very simple things.

These are the sort of patches that make me think I should just leave GW2.

I think Queens Gauntlet was the first Update which was good. The 6 Zones with the human obstacles are “classic” and the Arena is a nice challenge, better then stupid grind.
The older living Story elements i think are broring and deplaced because it has no connection to the world conflicts and dragons.

Im flabbergasted that the OP got so much attention. It just goes to show that getting a popular thread on the forums means posting unconstructive, insulting, criticism to the game, which is then responded to by hundreds who oppose or agree.

Queens Gauntlet is a fail in my eyes. Anet says all classes can kill every boss and do able with different builds. It’s been tested but its a flat out lie. If you are not a zerk for this you wont win. Any other builds other then zerk will run out of time and fall to your death. The final T3 boss is way 2 hard…I watched videos(showing mesmers only it seems) beating her and I do the exact same way, same skills and weapons, I still fail. Anet needs to take its time on these living stories instead of rushing to put them out in the game every 2 weeks. If they took the time, queens gauntlet prob would have been better instead of the skill lag, camera angle, super hard boss. I want that mini(i am collecting) but it looks like I will not be able to get this 1.

Buffy.9246:

Queens Gauntlet is a fail in my eyes. Anet says all classes can kill every boss and do able with different builds. It’s been tested but its a flat out lie. If you are not a zerk for this you wont win. Any other builds other then zerk will run out of time and fall to your death. The final T3 boss is way 2 hard…I watched videos(showing mesmers only it seems) beating her and I do the exact same way, same skills and weapons, I still fail. Anet needs to take its time on these living stories instead of rushing to put them out in the game every 2 weeks. If they took the time, queens gauntlet prob would have been better instead of the skill lag, camera angle, super hard boss. I want that mini(i am collecting) but it looks like I will not be able to get this 1.

Thats not true. Ive pretty much seen every class be able to do the bosses, its just a matter of changing your builds. Ye, I dont know if one build can completely handle every boss. I acc doubt it. Thats not the same as saying a class cant do it. I spent 6 hours tinkering around with dif builds before I beat the last boss. Zerk is not a great build for this. For some fights it is because of the time, but you can adjust almost every class to something zerkish, and then switch back. Zerk is the worst for the last boss because of the low armor and endurance regen.

So, the Halloween update added a ton of great content—jumping puzzles, mini-dungeons, etc, and my friends and I definitely noticed! We love, love, LOVE jumping puzzles and explorer achievements.

Now it may have taken most players awhile to notice, because to be honest the game was awfully new then and many people hadn’t finished exploring the world yet. How could they tell the difference between awesome new stuff and awesome stuff that had been in since launch if they were still exploring for the first time?

But at this stage, most people have seen the world and would DEFINITELY notice new things out in the world. We want it for sure! New jumping puzzles, new mini-dungeons, new WORLD BOSSES, would be wonderful.

My guildies and I were really looking forward to this patch, not just for the obvious reasons, but also for the changes to champions that would make seeking them out worthwhile. I can’t wait until the excitement over the Pavilion dies down a bit and people are ready to go Champion Hunting—out into the parts of the world I haven’t seen since I got map completion (for the second time).

You may not see a lot of excitement over adding lots of permanent events, but keep in mind when it’s permanent there’s no rush to enjoy it, so it takes awhile for everyone to get around to checking it all out. I may have been one of the first people in my guild to find Vexa’s Lab, but I’m pretty sure everyone’s done it now—and I’ve been dozens of times.

And speaking of Vexa’s Lab, upon showing it to a jaded friend of mine who always has something bad to say about everything, his reaction was “Why isn’t the whole game like this? This is awesome!”

Please don’t get discouraged if there’s not a huge rush of interest in new content right away. The best part of permanent content is that it’ll always be there—so we can take our time exploring and enjoying. We do appreciate it, so please give us more!

Fiontar.4695:

I don’t know what the truth of it is. Is it that the Live team tramples on the soul of the game out of ignorance? Or, is it resentment that the game rejected the established MMO design tropes and paradigm that drives those now at the helm to undo the hard fought gains of those who were able to think outside the box? Are there people at the top who still care for and defend the game’s core principles, or have they gone elsewhere or just given up on constantly fighting their unenlightened co-workers?

I couldn’t agree more with what Fiontar and the others have said. I applaud them for building such a calm and reasonable discussion about this subject, and I’m happy to see more people who share the same opinion I have – that the greatness of Guild Wars 2 lies on interesting and complex dynamic events in the open world, not on dungeons or in farming grounds.

There’s one thing that worries, me, though. We know ArenaNet can track players, and that they can measure – and see, even – how many players gather in a given map or in a given activity. This means they know how many people do dynamic events, how many people farm, how many people do Fractals, and so on.

What if we, as in those asking for better Dynamic Events, are the minority?

What if the great majority of GW2 players only wants to farm content like the bottom of the Crown Pavilion? What if the great majority doesn’t care about interesting dynamic events, about a rich storyline, or about relatable characters, but would rather farm for more gold and more shinies?

Guild Wars 2 was meant to be a revolution, as far as MMORPGs were concerned. The game wasn’t all that – it was a nice evolution in some aspects, true. But what if the GW2 players, in their majority, aren’t those who bought the game because they wanted something unique, rather those who bought the game because it was the next big MMORPG to be released, without caring about dynamic content at all?

We don’t know what most players do inside the game. ArenaNet does. And if they have learned that what the great majority of people do is farm mindless content over and over… Would it really be reasonable of us to ask them to bother with very elaborate content like new dynamic events chains that would have significant impact on an entire zone? When it would be much easier and much simpler for ArenaNet to just make the farming grounds that their players enjoy so much?

I honestly do not know. It’s possible that all the concerns above are an absurd, that it’s only a minority farming, and that Guild Wars 2 is filled with players who crave interesting and dynamic MMORPG content. But what if the GW2 community is really dominated by farmers and grinders, who don’t anything more than places to farm and shinies to grind for?

regarding the Queens Gauntlet: this particular content is of no interest to me. i really wish this content was instanced, too. that way i wouldn’t have to deal people watching just how bad i am at these boss fights. by entering the que, i also feel like i am wasting the time of people who actually like this content. but, i can’t get the associated achievements unless i throw my hat in the ring.

for players who like these boss fights, great! however, i think it would be awesome if players could have multiple paths to achievements to choose from based on their play style. for example, what if players could represent their order (remember those?) in the Gauntlet? in this example, challenges would cater to the focus of that particular order. Durmand Priory members would have a scholarly challenge, Order of Whispers would have an espionage challenge, and the Vigil could fight the bosses as they currently are.

“To complement this concept of regular world events with strong stories and themes, we also need to build on and strengthen our existing open world and its persistent content. The more persistent events we can provide in a specific area, the less often each of the events in that area needs to occur, which in turn adds to the sense of an ever-evolving open world.

This means we need to give reasons for players at all levels to explore these areas, to reward them for their time, and to encourage them to play in locations where they will run into each other and experience the community-driven features that make Guild Wars 2 shine. Before we expand our world more, we need to make sure our existing world is as strong as possible, and that it gives reasons for people at all levels to go back and play and explore in the entire game".

That is from Colin last fall.

Arenanet clearly “got it” back then, but they’ve pretty much failed to deliver, substituting Living Story for Dynamic Event content needed to make the existing world as strong as possible and give players reasons to go back and explore places they have already been.

It was and is such an important element needed to reinforce and build upon the game’s very foundations that to divert resources needed to make that happen to the Living Story seems not only unwise, but a decision that threatens the long term health and potential of the game.

There is more to dislike with this event than just the nature of the included content. It’s the ongoing sense that the developers are spending the rent and food money on bi-monthly trips to Vegas, while the kids are left alone in the apartment with a box of crackers and half a jar of peanut butter. Mortgaging the future potential of the game away in an unsustainable binge of novelty experiences that will mean nothing when the rent comes due, the credit cards are maxed and the kids are starving.

Erasculio.2914:

There’s one thing that worries, me, though. We know ArenaNet can track players, and that they can measure – and see, even – how many players gather in a given map or in a given activity. This means they know how many people do dynamic events, how many people farm, how many people do Fractals, and so on.

What if we, as in those asking for better Dynamic Events, are the minority?

What if the great majority of GW2 players only wants to farm content like the bottom of the Crown Pavilion? What if the great majority doesn’t care about interesting dynamic events, about a rich storyline, or about relatable characters, but would rather farm for more gold and more shinies?

Guild Wars 2 was meant to be a revolution, as far as MMORPGs were concerned. The game wasn’t all that – it was a nice evolution in some aspects, true. But what if the GW2 players, in their majority, aren’t those who bought the game because they wanted something unique, rather those who bought the game because it was the next big MMORPG to be released, without caring about dynamic content at all?

We don’t know what most players do inside the game. ArenaNet does. And if they have learned that what the great majority of people do is farm mindless content over and over… Would it really be reasonable of us to ask them to bother with very elaborate content like new dynamic events chains that would have significant impact on an entire zone? When it would be much easier and much simpler for ArenaNet to just make the farming grounds that their players enjoy so much?

I honestly do not know. It’s possible that all the concerns above are an absurd, that it’s only a minority farming, and that Guild Wars 2 is filled with players who crave interesting and dynamic MMORPG content. But what if the GW2 community is really dominated by farmers and grinders, who don’t anything more than places to farm and shinies to grind for?

Even if we are the minority content like this simply wont hold the game afloat. Farming and shinies only please people for so long till they realize there is a wheel around them and they have in reality not moved an inch. Other MMOs are coming and this stale state GW2 is in wont get it anywhere. Even the biggest farmers and people demanding eternal progression will get sick of it. It is why all recent runothemill MMOs have been failures. 90% of my guild has left the game to play other games while they wait for their next WoW killer. Not only that, ANET by trying to please everyone has pretty much succeeded doing the opposite. Only the blind and the real hardcore GW fans remain.

I dont believe its a manner of minority. It is easier to please certain people but they too would love content that mattered, content that would actually progress the story of the world. And no the living story didnt do that. I hoped the karka were minions of the sea dragon. I hoped the dredge invading would signal a big campaign for Primordus. I hoped that a real dragon would crash the dragonfest and finally get us back into the actual story of GW2. A glimmer of hope came with the Zephyrites but even so in the end it is a giant hole of nothing since Zhaitan (pathetically) died.

Instead we are celebrating, running errands, flying kites and doing other non-heroic tasks. I dont mind doing that every once in a while but a year is almost over and GW2 content wise has less to show for it than its predecessor.

Not to even mention the plethora of other problems with the game that seem like they will never be fixed.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Thanks for the feedback everyone and please keep it coming. Personally, I find that one of the hardest parts of being a desginer on GW2 Live is coming to terms with the fact that not every update will please every player. We do our best to deliver appealing content with enough variety to keep as many people as satisfied as possible. And If there’s one thing we can do consistently, it’s improving the experience of said content each time. I think we made some great strides with the Jubilee. I think we have a lot of room to keep growing. But our team isn’t done yet. We’ve got some exciting things coming later this month. Things you’ve never seen in this game before.

But in the mean time, please keep telling us what you’re thinking. We are listening. Not only to what you’re saying but also to what you’re not. The very first living world team actually did the thing some of you have called for. Some 40 or so permanent events were added around the game in our very first content update. They were met with little interest or fanfare. Granted, Halloween may have stolen the show. But those events are still in the game today. I’ve seen very little reaction to them, however, positive or negative. Despite this, there are many events I would still like to add. Many zones and bosses I would love to revisit. As we get better at the living world, I strongly suspect we’ll have room to get around to them as well. Assuming that’s what our players really want. You are all the second half of the collaborative process, so thanks for helping!

I think you may have the mistaken perception that the hidden added content wasn’t received well or at all for a few reasons.

First, as you said, it was part of the Halloween update and most of it was barely mentioned in the patch notes (which is cool; hidden = amazing when, as a player, you stumble upon it randomly in the world for the first time, but, as a developer, you have to realize that this lack of direction is going to lead to a lack of discovery for quite some time for the majority of the population). Because there was so much more going on with the Halloween patches, which were released periodically over the course of the final ten days of October, everyone was completely wrapped up in that content and didn’t even realize other stuff was added, which again, I know was your intent – you wanted the stuff to be hidden surprises.

Second, the game was still new at the time. Brand new. Many players were still leveling their first characters. Others who were on their second or third characters, were still trying new zones for the first time. If they encountered any of these new mini dungeons or puzzles, they would have had no idea that they were added in a patch and were not present at release. There would have been no specific reason for players to shout out “OMG these hidden updates from Anet have been amazing!” I know as I’ve gradually uncovered many of the hidden dungeons and puzzles (between, say, January and August), I’ve looked them up online to see what people have said about them, and I’m constantly shocked to see that it was “added in”, usually during the October update. Without googling it, I would have assumed it had been in the game since release.

Third, this content truly was hidden. I had 100% complted many of these zones several times and still didn’t find nearly 40% of all jumping puzzles or the majority of things labeled “mini dungeons.” Again, this is a great thing because it makes finding them feel all the more rewarding; but once again, as a developer, you must realize and live with the fact that this will result in minimal recognition by the community, unless huge quantities of player were suddenly made aware of an awesome secret dungeon at once. It’s a give and take on your part. Also, I didn’t find many of the hidden puzzles naturally; I didn’t experience them at all until some of the recent living story achievements guided me to them, and then again after the achievement point rewards were implemented, which caused me to go hunting for more points, some of the easiest of which (and most fun) was to systematically go through the “explorer” and “jumping puzzle” tabs. Hidden = the average person doesn’t find them.

Finally, even when players do find this hidden content, unfortunately, you’re probably not going to hear about it. Once again, I empathize with you as a developer. You must want so badly to indulge in the satisfaction of hearing players rave about their discoveries – which, I assure you, do happen – but you can’t hear what is said in in-game chat, or over a VOIP, or in personal PMs like AIM, which is where the majority of these moments occur.

Continued below…

Continued from above… 5000 character limit = not forums for me

To provide an anecdote, when I found the Dredgehaunt Cliffs mini dungeon back in February, I freaking went out and told every single person I knew about it. I must have brought 10 people there on at 7 different trips, and none of them had ever been there before. It was mind-blowing the first time I figured out how to open the door and get in, and everyone I brought seemed to feel the same way. But because all of our excitement basically occurred in in-game chat, there’s really no way you guys would know just how satisfied we all were by the dungeon.

I know that, based on some of Colin Johannson’s statements before and after the release of GW2, you guys were really excited to see how fans would react to all your secret hidden updates that you gradually toss in here and there, but, unfortunately, I just don’t think you’ll ever get the public reaction you’d like. Unless it’s something mind-blowing like the Dredgehaunt mini-dungeon, and someone posts about it on Reddit, and it makes the front page and blows up from there, you’re kind of out of luck in the gratification department – and that does suck for you guys. But know that these hidden gems are appreciated by a great many players, once they find them. At least every reaction I’ve heard has been overwhelmingly positive. GW2’s open world and insane variety of gameplay that can occur there is the best thing it has going for it. Please don’t ignore it!

I had been thinking how to word my response for a while. Thanks for putting it better than I probably would have done Homitu.

The only thing I’ll add is that the Skritt burglar and Modus Sceleris are very much blink and you’ll miss it events. If a whole chain was added I believe far more people would notice (and appreciate) it.

Erasculio.2914:

What if we, as in those asking for better Dynamic Events, are the minority?

What if the great majority of GW2 players only wants to farm content like the bottom of the Crown Pavilion? What if the great majority doesn’t care about interesting dynamic events, about a rich storyline, or about relatable characters, but would rather farm for more gold and more shinies?

Taking the many, many whining threads in this forum and the pessimistic voice in my head into account, I fear that you might be spot-on with this conjecture.

I would also add as a conjecture (without having any actual inside knowledge) that with the dynamic event system, it turned out (a) to be quite time consuming to design/build new events and (b) those events are exceptionally prone to errors. I base that conjuncture on the facts that we have only seen very, very few complex dynamic events in the game, and that there are still dynamic event chains stuck that I have never seen running since release. (“Save the merchants from the Bloody Buccaneer kidnappers”, anybody?)

And now think on the other hand how easy it must be to implement mere simple checklist quests like in that other game. For me, it is no wonder that we see so many Living World achievements pop up, since they are essentially nothing else than disguised checklist quests.

I remember the discussion about GW2 that took place at GDC before launch. ANet was claiming quite optimistically at that time something along the lines “We are building an MMO where the actual fun game play is the reward!” while the ‘experts’ from the industry reacted more like “Wait, what? Flat leveling curve, power plateau, no long term infinite leveling character improvement grind? You crazy? Epic fail!”. ANets manifesto approach was against any model the industry had developed for the long-term commitment of players to games (aka: profit).

It might actually turn out that the industry ‘experts’ were right and that a majority of the MMO target group does actually not appreciate good or innovative game play, or at least just not as much as a constant flow of loot drops. And a constant flow of loot can be obtained easily by means much less difficult to build than a dynamic event system.

Game development is a business, and one sad truth of the GW2 experience might be that innovation in an MMO just isn’t profitable enough to justify the time and resources that are needed.

Fiontar.4695:

I don’t know what the truth of it is. Is it that the Live team tramples on the soul of the game out of ignorance? Or, is it resentment that the game rejected the established MMO design tropes and paradigm that drives those now at the helm to undo the hard fought gains of those who were able to think outside the box?

Having said that and understanding your disappointment, I don’t think it is helpful for the discussion to indulge in hyperbole. After all, the game isn’t a failure, and nobody is actively destroying the gaming experience. I am playing since launch and I am still having lots of fun with the game, and this doesn’t feel like a failure to me. It’s just the feeling that the game could actually be even more than it is.

~MRA

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

[…]

That is true, but you don’t factor in that a lack of development DE-side makes levelling alts much less attractive. Basically right now Queensdale is the same old kitten it was last October.
A solution could be to target a single zone and prop it up with temporary (i.e. Living Story) and permanent (i.e. dynamic events) content during the LS installation
You did it already kinda tried with Return to Southsun, but why that failed has other reasons than a general apathy for DEs, including the very zone itself (which isn’t the case with other Tyrian zones since they are at least visited)

If you want to generate long-term player interest: Add with every other LS arc or so some new actual permanent content like dungeons. Go on Youtube. Look at the GW2 videos. They (excluding PVP ones) are mostly dungeon/fractal running tips, strategizing, speedruns, let’s plays. This is passion. This is your most vocal and loyal clientele. Yet that was not catered for since last November. Without new dungeons, there will be fewer and fewer such videos.

Homitu.7216:

Finally, even when players do find this hidden content, unfortunately, you’re probably not going to hear about it. Once again, I empathize with you as a developer. You must want so badly to indulge in the satisfaction of hearing players rave about their discoveries – which, I assure you, do happen – but you can’t hear what is said in in-game chat, or over a VOIP, or in personal PMs like AIM, which is where the majority of these moments occur.

You’re putting only the best bits into the spotlight. Most which he meant was little DEs, not some sprawling mini-dungeons. You won’t “rave” on VOIP or write PMs about a little DE that you might not even know wasn’t there before.
That’s what he’s addressing. And I agree with him. Untargeted, sporadic inclusion of DEs is a waste of resources. It doesn’t generate anything, not publicity, not customer satisfaction, nothing.

And to answer the topic:
This update equally does nothing for me. If this is 90% of what we can expect the coming years I might as well uninstall right now.

I think it is too soon to judge how well the LS works.

Some LS releases work for me, some don’t. The Bazaar of the Four Winds was some of the best fun I’ve had in a game. The Queen’s Jubilee, not so much. I love JPs; whacking loot pinata’s is not my thing. However, many of my guildies are loving it. I play the bits I enjoy and ignore the rest. So far, there’s been an acceptable balance of fun and meh for me, but that’s not true for everyone. There are other issues, too, like cheev fatigue, perceived quality issues, and currency explosion.

However, I look at it like this:

ANet is trying something new with LS. It took them awhile to get their internal development processes reorganized to support it, and because of how time consuming content development is (yes, even “small” bites like the LS releases), it is going to take quite awhile for them to figure out what kinds of updates work well and what don’t. How best to pace the story. What the right cheev mix is. What the right blend of game elements is.

Look back after a year or more of LS (not just a year of GW2), and then judge. That’s not to say we shouldn’t be giving feedback, as is happening in this thread. It’s very important. I just think it is too soon to declare the concept either a success or a failure.

I love DE’s and wish there were more new ones, as some others have mentioned. It delights me no end when I occasionally trip over a DE I’ve never seen before when I’m rambling around doing my daily. However, how long does it take you to do most DE’s? 5 minutes? 10? Maybe 30-60 for a long chain. And how many times will you re-run it? It doesn’t feel sustainable to me.

The game needs a mix of content to stay fresh, and I think ANet is still trying to figure out both what that mix is and what they can manage with available resources. Personally, I’m willing to give them more time to do that, but I can understand why some don’t feel likewise.

Erasculio.2914:

What if we, as in those asking for better Dynamic Events, are the minority?

This is a strange line to me because the game world has been evolving on several rather divergent paths under each of the four teams (+ SAB). Moreover, the notion of desiring more and expanded upon DEs requires that the base structure of reward, effort, and fun, actually have some congruency… which for a long time they haven’t had.

Take Orr, classic old Orr, which has changed in mob mechanics (stealthily) with almost every patch and the testbed for almost all scaling algorithms. Prior to this past patch, the zone was only really vibrant during Temple chains (and before at all of two events that were farmed nonstop) but its full of BIG events that simply go/went undone because no-one wanted to fight that Champion/Legendary mob irregardless of how challenging/fun the fight might be (and many have evolved into rather fun little fights that were never mentioned in the patch notes).

And this part of where the disconnect for me has been occurring with this discussion as a whole, this patch didn’t just add a pie for people to run around in. It retroactively made many past events actually enticing because people actually get something for killing a champion (people will always find the path of least resistance, and irregardless of how good an event is, whatever is easiest and fastest will always be most popular), and it makes future DE additions “interesting” for people who chase shinnies because a system has been added to give people the sense that there will be shinnies. Few people do things for the lore or story, thats just the nature of it and has been the nature of it since GW1. People will run the story ONCE, and then they will look to “Does it give me shinnies, where are my shinnies?”.

More, these updates have been tinkering with mechanics that we’ve seen evolve in time: Karka -> F&F mobs and mechanics -> Aetherblade Retreat -> Gauntlet, all of which are far more fun than dungeons/events of the past which, now comparatively, are incredibly simplistic. These sorts of under the hood changes need(ed) to occur before compelling new DEs can actually be made. And, its not like they haven’t been made*. Sanctum, with its Samus Aran gameplay, is a completely different “game-mode” from Jubilee.

There is one last point to make: an open world is hard to truly make challenging or engaging. There is a reason why many MMOs diverged off the path of “epic world bosses” and “epic world events”, and thats because they are either incredibly brutal to the point of frustration and requiring perfection from everyone in attendance, or completely trivial the moment X+1 people show up. Finding a middle ground is next to impossible because people will always subvert difficulty curves in whatever ways they can, and exploit them to trivialize mechanics. And… ultimately, such “bosses” or “events” simply become farming fodder on a timer (which is probably one of the bigger +s of temporary content in this vain).

We’ve had our dalliances in this, with SSC #1 -> SSC #2 (and honestly, I love the trolling nature of Karka), and we’ve seen how such content will be abandoned the moment its finished, but nevertheless that map has had some of the most epic things in it, and I would love to see more that incorporates much of the things that have only recently started showing their shine.

*I, for one, think the Temples -> March on Arah are some of the best DEs in the game and they capture the nature of Orr from the narrative perspective and put into gameplay, and its a fun domino effect to start from one Temple and end up, a couple hours later, standing on the corpse of the plate-wearing, perplexingly named High Wizard who fights you in melee rather than with magic. I would say the same of the re-vamped SSC… though I find that the brevity of “the calm” is far too short (the whole map can be re-overrun in minutes). The mechanics of the Queen and the nature of her existence vs. the state of the map, are an evolution of DE mechanics.

SAB is a game in a game and, you know what, I love the kitten thing.

Anet has discovered the secret formula that Super Mario Brothers outsells WoW. Expect more platformer and less FRPG in the future I guess.

Fiontar.4695:

…. Quality is probably more important than quantity, but it has been sorely lacking. That this year’s content actively undermines the core game content, rather than supporting it, sadly means that the game would probably have been better off with nothing than what was actually produced.

I have to second this, purely on the basis that most of Orr has been getting ruined with more Bugs than usual the past month. Bugs that would not have made it to release with Open Testing and actual attention to PvE balance.

Northern Pact route has been bugged since mid-July

• https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/North-Pact-Reinforcement-DE-broken/

The Priestess of Dwayna fight can now make some players physically SICK

• https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Dwayna-s-new-laser-light-show/

GRENTH was also made a lot more difficult with absolutely no explanation for it.

Most Escorts also now scale improperly, IE: the NPC’s do NOT scale up with the Mobs.
The final “Big D.E. chain Event” (that was the Pinnacle of this game’s Event system at launch) Pact escort was also just effectively “removed from game”… just last night…

• https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Temple-of-Balthazar-event-impossible/
  ^this thread documents both issues (Chan, & Balth escorts)

If you’re not going to make the NPC’s themselves immune to AOE’s, then simply don’t make these changes in the first place. These changes are not in any way tied to “skill” and the Gw2 Manifesto on self-reliance (iow: “no Healers” required).

…
…on top of this, WvW Damage & CC “Visual Queues” have also become massively Glitched making the entire game mode unplayable for many.

• https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/The-spell-effects-patch-and-WvW/
  This did get a response, however it was just a dismissive response and not a response that actually showed research and understanding of the issue.

… All of this together is very disappointing because it takes content that WAS somewhat rewarding prior to this patch(s), and makes it require 3x the effort while risking roughly 3x the Failure rates it used to have. One possible explanation for this might have been that we’re now getting “Coffers” from Champions… However if the RNG drop rates for everyone else, are anything like mine:
http://home.comcast.net/~ill_er/GW/coffers_8-8.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~ill_er/GW/coffers_8-8_value.jpg
…then it’s actually resulting in a NET LOSS in player income now when the entire premise & promise of the Blog Post was to make the content more rewarding again (even if a bit more difficult).

Not only that, but I CAN’T EVEN PLAY THE GAME NOW without crashing every 5 minutes when attempting Group Content with other people.

• https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/tech/Game-crashing-become-very-frequent/
  .

This is why I’m angry right now. I NEVER got angry at you ArenenaNet… during the 7 years of GW1. ….I got close to getting angry after spending 2 entire days failing Magni the Bison b/c you guys balanced it so poorly that only a Spirit Spam Ritualist could solo it when not every one of us actually owned a copy of Factions. But I didn’t get angry like I am right now, and the reason I’m angry is because your update and all the bugs that came with it; are not just ruining my daily routine and my progress, but it’s ruining the enjoyment of all the People I did these huge Meta events with.

We should be in full swing right now, it’s 6pm and we’d usually be rolling right through this content, supporting eachother & cracking wise in mapchat while just generally enjoying the ride. Not getting frustrated the whole time trying to figure out WHY it got broken in the first place and watching our best allies slowly give up on it in disgust. ….or in my case, not even bothering to Log in today.

This is not at all how I expected to be celebrating GW2’s first year. I’m pretty sure it’s not how you guys expected to be celebrating it either. Maybe it’s not even Anet’s fault, maybe your content team is just following the Marching orders from NCsoft and the Nexon people who took controlling share in it. I’m not gonna comment on that beyond the belief that I’m pretty sure, even those guys, nomatter how far they might be towards the “Lawful Evil” distinguisher on the good old RPG Chart of Alignment … I’m pretty sure even they, are always in favor of actually selling a functioning product that keeps working even when there’s large updates to it.

.

TL;DR summary: Y U BRAEK EVRYTING 2 MAKE D.R. FARM??

Jamais vu.5284:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

[…]

Homitu.7216:

Finally, even when players do find this hidden content, unfortunately, you’re probably not going to hear about it. Once again, I empathize with you as a developer. You must want so badly to indulge in the satisfaction of hearing players rave about their discoveries – which, I assure you, do happen – but you can’t hear what is said in in-game chat, or over a VOIP, or in personal PMs like AIM, which is where the majority of these moments occur.

You’re putting only the best bits into the spotlight. Most which he meant was little DEs, not some sprawling mini-dungeons. You won’t “rave” on VOIP or write PMs about a little DE that you might not even know wasn’t there before.
That’s what he’s addressing. And I agree with him. Untargeted, sporadic inclusion of DEs is a waste of resources. It doesn’t generate anything, not publicity, not customer satisfaction, nothing.

Yeah, I put the best bit in the spotlight precisely because I thought that mini-dungeon was the very best in the game. If the most awesome secret addition didn’t generate a buzz (and it was truly buzz worthy), then Anet will never get that “reaction” AnthonyOrdon seemed to be looking for, which was the point I was trying to make.

It should be noted, however, that just because the Dredgehaunt mini dungeon was the pinnacle of all the hidden gems doesn’t mean it was the only really amazing secret update. There were literally dozens of the best jumping puzzles and mini-dungeons in the game that were added post-release. So much so that I actually suspect many of them were ready for release, but were “saved” for a “major update” shortly after release. Either way, we’re not just talking about minor dynamic events here or there. They put some really great stuff in, and I think they were looking for a chain of major reactions from the community, but, for all the reasons I detailed in my dual-post, they just would never have gotten that kind of reaction.

I agree about the events though, and to that end, I somewhat (though not entirely) disagree with Fiontar. I think they could add literally 500 new events (which would be a metric crapton of development work) spread throughout every zone in the world, and players would barely notice at first, and then barely care afterward. It would cause enough curiosity to roam around for a few weeks and revisit several zones, but it would essentially still feel like the same game. Not only that, but the overall amount of content in the game wouldn’t change. The amount of “stuff” to do in the open world would remain almost exactly the same. A huge update like this might invigorate players’ desires to go back out and explore the open world again for a few weeks, but after that they’d be as done with it as they were before the update.

Honestly, every time I revisit an old zone, I inevitably encounter several events I hadn’t seen before. Such is the nature of dynamic events. They could have added them in recently, I’d never know – and again no praise would be given to Anet. Given this fact, I still think the game is young enough that Anet would be a little mistaken to substantially revamp current zones. Deleting parts of permanent content so soon just strikes me as bad design. It’s way too early for WoW’s Cataclysm expansion to hit Tyria.

I’m not all warm and fuzzy about the current temporary content either; I have many praises and complaints about the updates in general. These are just my thoughts on this specific part of this subject.

Murderous Clown.9723:

I had been thinking how to word my response for a while. Thanks for putting it better than I probably would have done Homitu.

The only thing I’ll add is that the Skritt burglar and Modus Sceleris are very much blink and you’ll miss it events. If a whole chain was added I believe far more people would notice (and appreciate) it.

Thank you for the compliment It’s always an honor when someone actually bothers to read one of my too-lengthy posts!

I think the Skritt burglars are their own interesting entities. It’s completely random whether or not you encounter them. I only just encountered my very first one last night, ironically, and I spend a considerable amount of time in the open world. So I finally got one of those two achievements, my last two in the explorers category. Who knows how long until the next one, another 6 months maybe??

If you do notice it and participate in it, though, I’d say it’s a fairly unique and memorable experience. Nothing amazing, but memorable. Combined with the achievement and loot bags, it’s something players definitely talk about in map/guild chat the first time they experience them.

On a side note, all of this stuff would be so much more shareable if we could link achievements we’ve earned or otherwise show them off to others.

Universal event Black Lion Claim Tickets is a great idea.

I don’t like that this update leaves me feeling like I’m playing alone. All of the content I’ve experienced so far pretty much requires that you run alone. Yes, there is a giant zerg, but that’s not something you do with a group of friends. It feels more like something you do when everyone on your friendslist is offline and you want to grind out some achievement bonuses (which really shouldn’t be a thing to do…).

I’d really like to see some content that rewards me for playing with one or two good friends, rather than having to play solo or run in a giant zerg with people I don’t know, which might as well be running solo.

Very few of these living story updates have let me connect with my friends, and I haven’t made any new friends while playing them. MMOs are a social environment, but GW2 has been becoming increasingly hostile, competitive and anti-social. I’d love to see some living story updates that have you cooperating with your friends rather than running off to grind ad nauseum.

That is a perspective I forgot about, very well put.

Example: When I stumbled upon Hexfoundry Unhinged hidden behind shadows, I was ecstatic. I felt like an explorer, my curiosity had been rewarded. I dragged my hesitant friend along and we worked together to figure it out. We both had a great time. That’s the quintessence of GW2 for me.

Erasculio.2914:

Fiontar.4695:

I don’t know what the truth of it is. Is it that the Live team tramples on the soul of the game out of ignorance? Or, is it resentment that the game rejected the established MMO design tropes and paradigm that drives those now at the helm to undo the hard fought gains of those who were able to think outside the box? Are there people at the top who still care for and defend the game’s core principles, or have they gone elsewhere or just given up on constantly fighting their unenlightened co-workers?

There’s one thing that worries, me, though. We know ArenaNet can track players, and that they can measure – and see, even – how many players gather in a given map or in a given activity. This means they know how many people do dynamic events, how many people farm, how many people do Fractals, and so on.

What if we, as in those asking for better Dynamic Events, are the minority?

What if the great majority of GW2 players only wants to farm content like the bottom of the Crown Pavilion? What if the great majority doesn’t care about interesting dynamic events, about a rich storyline, or about relatable characters, but would rather farm for more gold and more shinies?

I worry about the same things. We’re still passionate about their original goals, but its starting to feel like a broken promise. Not only personally, but idealistically. They’re selling out. They’re giving up.

Im flabbergasted that the OP got so much attention. It just goes to show that getting a popular thread on the forums means posting unconstructive, insulting, criticism to the game, which is then responded to by hundreds who oppose or agree.

jheryn.8390:

I really like this update. I am having a great time playing in the Pavilion and doing balloon events out in the world.

The part that is wrong are the attacks on ANet and other players. If you like the new content, don’t call the ones that don’t ‘whiners.’ If you hate the new content, don’t attack the developers and players who enjoy it.

I haven’t seen many personal attacks or unconstructive feedback coming from disappointed players. We have been saying why we feel this way, unlike the posts that just say “I like it” without saying why. Trying to get people to explain why they like Crown Pavilion farming is like pulling teeth.

Fiontar.4695:

Well, hopes that these things would improve with experience is proven once again to be wishful thinking. IMO, this is by far the worst event in the Living Story chain to date and, yet again, another waste of developer resources.

You’ve taken a very free form MMO with a massive game world and reduced it to a stage on which to host the worst example of Theme park trash one could imagine.

The Queen’s Pavilion? Each piece of the pie is just a variation of a theme park exhibit of everything that is wrong with MMORPGs. Apparently, difficulty is supposed to make up for the complete lack of any redeeming design qualities, but it just makes the content as frustrating on a play level as it is on a design level.

I have to disagree. You’re basically complaining about temporary theme park content in a theme park MMO. As for the difficulty level, I think it’s perfectly fair to have content for both casual and core players. Zerging Legendaries using VIT/Toughness builds doesn’t require much skill and can be enjoyed by all players.

Fiontar.4695:

…Speaking of special currency, now we don’t just need special currency to get nice skins, we need that currency AND gold!…

This one concerned me when I read this thread yesterday, but now I have a different concern. Farming vets in a group and sneaking up on the various chests, I see gold will be no problem for those interested in the vendor loot, skins, etc. I’m not concerned about that anymore.

Where I am concerned is if few people spend all that gold… inflation is now definitely a potential from this event.

All that negative said – I find the vet farming a ton of fun. I’m sure if you check back in a few days, I will have grown bored of it, but the legendary fights aren’t nearly as fun to me as the massive number of respawning vets.

KarateKid.5648:

Fiontar.4695:

…Speaking of special currency, now we don’t just need special currency to get nice skins, we need that currency AND gold!…

This one concerned me when I read this thread yesterday, but now I have a different concern. Farming vets in a group and sneaking up on the various chests, I see gold will be no problem for those interested in the vendor loot, skins, etc. I’m not concerned about that anymore.

Where I am concerned is if few people spend all that gold… inflation is now definitely a potential from this event.

All that negative said – I find the vet farming a ton of fun. I’m sure if you check back in a few days, I will have grown bored of it, but the legendary fights aren’t nearly as fun to me as the massive number of respawning vets.

As for Fiontar’s quote, it’s basically just all gold, as the current “special currency” is tradeable. Tacking 200 sprockets onto the purchase basically increases the gold cost by 1.6 at current prices. If he was mad about the patch-by-patch currencies – which was really an aside to his primary post – he need not be this time around. This patch’s skins are the most casual accessible to date, only costing a few hours worth of gold. Of course, on the flip side, accessibility diminishes the intrinsic value of a skin. So there’s that.

Concerning the zerg farming, I personally hate the mechanic and find it really hard to see what people who supposedly enjoy it actually enjoy about it. As another poster said, trying to pry this answer out of someone is like pulling teeth. Every single zerg, no matter the context of the event, feels exactly the same to me. It’s like I’m just rolling around practicing my rotation against a bunch of target dummies while spamming my loot key. I’ve consistently found that the more players involved, the less involved GW2’s combat becomes. 1-3 players feels like the sweet spot to me as far as tactics, mechanics, reaction and satisfaction go. As you add more players from there, it just continues to go downhill until you eventually reach the quota on chaos and spam.

Homitu.7216:

…Concerning the zerg farming, I personally hate the mechanic and find it really hard to see what people who supposedly enjoy it actually enjoy about it…

For me, prolly adrenaline – I primarily solo.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Meriem.3504:

I think his point his that almost every living story feels like a holiday event rather then an actual event. The Molten Alliance for example felt like an actual battle though I still think it could of been done better with some of the world stuff going on. Everything else feels like a holiday with some bad guys. The Aetherblade Pirates just feel like party crashers and not a real threat. They are like clowns gone wrong.

I agree… if every event is like a holiday event, then the actual holiday events become nothing special.

So we’re going with “Every day is Halloween”? (That was for the old people on the forum).

/black lipstick

I just wanted to add my 2 cents to this thread. I think (in my opinion) that this is one of the best updates that they have released. it ushers more gold into the economy, REWARDS players for completing achievements and has some good mechanics for hardcore AND casual players. If you play casually you can do everything within the 1 month that it is here for you just have to prioritize what things matter the most to you. If you have the read the dev’s posting they are trying to release more content that they can recycle and improve upon each year for their yearly portfolio of holiday events. Just be patient more main line story will come soon enough. Instead of being negative about what you felt you didn’t like about the patch why not just focus on what you did like. No one is forcing you to play the new content or the game for that matter.

Very nice job A-Net, wonderful patch

atheria.2837:

LordEnki.9283:

I’m not going to say that this game has it’s problems, because it does. However I can only imagine how massive of an undertaking this game still is considering the size of the world, hundreds events at any one time, and so much content intermingled and flexible to different variables. I certainly feel there is more balance that needs to be accomplished between professions, but even that is better than it was. I’ve heart 99% praise for this update and 1% whiners. I’m sorry, but this post seems like someone who just threw their proverbial Nintendo controller and yelled “The game cheats!!!”.

No it shows the frustrations of the thousands who will up thumb this comment.

You have no idea how much stress this game can cause because it is more confusing than fun at times.

I dig what you’re saying; but on day two of having the game, I read what was necessary to make a legendary and decided it wasn’t worth it. That’s a goal you set for yourself, so you can’t blame the developers on that one.

I think Anet is definitely overdoing it with all the mini games. I mean it started really nicely in GW1 – wintersday, canthan new year, halloween. Just a couple of times a year you had those mini games to take a break from intense pvp. I never was much of a pve player in GW1, but we all went there and did a few runs of mini games when there was the celebration.

It also started off ok in GW2, I liked running a few minigames of halloween and stuff… But now? Every 2 weeks 2 new mini games. I’m getting sick of them, and if they just stop putting them into the game I will still be sick of them until Halloween comes out this year. I may just skip those too. As I said – Overdone, and it took away the uniqueness of the events mentioned above.

Second – Does anyone still remember the original story of GW2? Well I think they should continue working on it. Right now it’s all about festivals, jubilees, characters that are trying to be funny and cheerful. No sense Tyria needs saving from anyone really, it’s all party all the way. Some serious grown up content is what this game needs, with deep story that makes one think and ponder a bit when the story ends… Some twists, drama and tragedy, build a character that everyone loves and kill him at the end of the story… you know, stuff like that…

Most of the story writing in this game seems to be done for 12 year olds. However that doesn’t apply to every aspect of the game. Artist (and those that manifest their ideas into the digital form) for example are making an exceptional job and they outshine any other MMORPG by lightyears. So hats of to Daniel Dociu, his team and everyone involved.

IndigoSundown.5419:

ANet is feeling their way into an update process that afaik is unprecedented for an MMO. I thought Flame and Frost was a decent start. Since then, though?

What would I have done differently?

Flame & Frost: The premise was interesting. It made use of existing content — both in terms of existing zones and existing enemy factions. It culminated in a dungeon that was imo more fun than any other dungeon I’ve been in. However, the Molten Alliance fell apart. Why? Because the brain behind it was done with them? The weapon master could have easily gotten away while we were fighting the dual final boss. The Alliance could be licking its wounds from the destruction of weapon facilities. There could have been lingering effects in the persistent world, like Dynamic Events added to the zones where the Flame Legion and Dredge appear. Then, in another update cycle somewhere down the road, the Alliance could return to plague Tyria once again. Maybe they’ve broken away from the devious hinted-at mastermind who manipulated them. Maybe they blame their setback on the manipulator or her race, adding that race to their hated list.

Labyrinthine Cliffs: I would have kept the map open, even though the Sanctum has air-sailed away. An enemy group could move in. Seems to me the Aetherblades are short a base of operations. The Lionguard could build a fort there and encourage adventurers to harry the blackguards. Over time, the DE’s there could change, and the next time the Sanctum planned to return, there could be a LS update about the big push to take back the Cliffs, a big push that the intervening events in the zone had led up to.

What would you do?

Something similar to what you posted above – that is to say, CHANGE the world permanently. That was such an exciting concept for me when I read it, but it’s not happened yet.

I’m not bashing ANet at all, but that has been the most disappointing part for me with Living World (maybe this comment shoulda gone over in that section). First I didn’t like the fact the content went away (wait – it’s fun and interesting, but it’s gonna go away?); but had it actually changed Tyria permanently, I woulda felt better about it because it would have made sense

I get what they’re doing – they’re taking the game platform and putting TV-series-like content in it (like tuning into a new episode of Fringe every week) – I just think it’s turning out so far to be more like watch Fringe this week, next week it’s preempted by Swamp People, and the next week it changes again… occasionally we get something with mass suck factor like Big Brother (Dragon Bash).

I’ve got to say I’m not a big fan of this update. Being trapped in a big ugly arena underground with the PvE shiny zergling patrol has often made me feel claustrophobic, longing once again for the beauty of the GW2 overworld. These sort of updates are great for tunnel vision loot mungers but for those that love a bit of world and lore exploration it’s all a bit meaningless. I look forward to seeing if next months update has something equivalent to Southsun Cove or Labyrinthine Cliffs. I want MOAR pretty places to explore!

Also, is it safe for the PvE zerglings to be underground for the next two weeks? Vitamin D deficiency is a very real issue, at least for the humans….

samo.1054:

…Right now it’s all about festivals, jubilees, characters that are trying to be funny and cheerful. No sense Tyria needs saving from anyone really, it’s all party all the way. …

hadn’t thought of that; but it’s true. maybe that’s why they’re getting overrun by bad guys.

Gizmo.8623:

Snip…
I don’t enjoy this sandwich as whole.
EDIT: And I don’t like the way new sandwiches are made.

Brilliant.
For more than one reason, on many levels.

I guess I have too much to convey.
If a Dev would like to talk to me about the things I have found in the game that need addressed, they can contact me.

I’ve saved it all, in a .doc file. I spent too long actually writing it, to even bother trying to rewrite and summarize.

Also, if anyone would like to know how I was able to correct the 7:11:3:191:101 DC Error, just send me a PM, and I’ll give you the steps (easy steps!). Fixed my issue entirely. I know it may not yours, but it’s worth a shot if you’ve tried everything else.

Happy day.

Dasroth.9236:

Just be patient more main line story will come soon enough. Instead of being negative about what you felt you didn’t like about the patch why not just focus on what you did like. No one is forcing you to play the new content or the game for that matter.

For me it’s not the problem of being impatient. It’s the problem of the whole direction the game is taking, so no amount of time will bring the update I dream of – expansion of world, improvements of faulty systems, new ways to affect Tyria, interesting further story.

Listen, of course I can name positives and forget about negatives. But this way I won’t really and trully enjoy the game. I will be lying to myself of telling that I like the game only because I will acknowledge things I dislike. I’ve done the math and I’m really starting to dislike more things than like in a wonderful game that’s becoming only good in a beautiful world that’s neglected by it’s makers.

I really can’t change myself in this matter, I won’t start liking grind or content appealing to zerg. The game started to change, important things are put away for shallow content. I shout – “Please! Look in the mirror and see what you’re becoming! I don’t like it, but I really care for you and thus I don’t want you to lose me. And many others who really care!”

I think for me the biggest problem on the living story content is that they add things too stressing to do in so little time instead of adding them for good and permanent, not everyone have 7 hours a day to play or do this extra complicated and hard challenges, yes im talking about the gauntlet, not everyone likes to power level another class just to achieve the content, and yes u can claim like an elititst player that u want to have what others dont, but then if the developers are triying to make the loop between richer and elitist players and normal players bigger then with this updates they doing it, yes you could say achievements should not matter but unless ur blind they focusing the game toward it and collecting tiny minis and skins, that s all that these updates add for the future nothing else, after 1 year mostly nobody will now what happened on the event with detail they will only remember the achievements and the money or skins they got, OOHH but guess what you didnt had time to do it because you have a life outside the game? well sorry the game will forever remind u of it with the achievements tab there, and the black spot of a mini u can never get again because well is u to blame for having a job, a family or simply not wanting to spend 10 hours a day to try achieve the insanely hard achievements u must do in 15 days, for me if the developers said the living story would go back to get new players and old players alike the taste of it and get the stuff they missed that would make many more players happy (and yes i have achieved everything so no im being honest even with me having all the stuff done) and less stressed enyoying the game at their rhytm, FOR ME the living content being temporary is simply a phallacy and a lie because why they say the world is changing whne outside the living story all maps rotate in an interminable repeating events process? why not add the living content to the already nutritive enviroment on this cycle instead of triying to make a contradictory act like this temporary content, i mean yes the dredge made the flame and frost event but wo cares they keep triying the same attacks on dredgecliffs over and over every 15 minutes without change at all, even the norn there kill the veteran arctodus every 20 min or so for new shoes…WHY? not make this living story content like that a returning events all years for new players to enyoy and old players to complete, and YES keep adding events but let players now they will not miss them just because life out of game makes them miss it, make them now theseevents will be back LIKE all the events in the world of tyria so they can plan to enyoy them whole without stress next years, AND keep ading more content to those events so the players who already got them completed (me included) can enyoy new things even if the event is the same. DONT LIE anet GW2 is an never ending events cycle repeating over and over but that was the thing i got hooked for, so stop making temporary “never going back” stress events and make them cycle like the rest of this nice game, before more players including me get into the “i give up” train and go out for good, i dont want but is getting very stressing indeed

SkylightMoon.1980:

Im flabbergasted that the OP got so much attention. It just goes to show that getting a popular thread on the forums means posting unconstructive, insulting, criticism to the game, which is then responded to by hundreds who oppose or agree.

Why it’s insulting? Why do you say it’s unconstructive? OP said more than first post.
OP showed his opinion, he didn’t say like many “I like/don’t like the update”. He gave many reasons, he said why. Then many people agreed or not and showed their reasons.

We got darn good engaging discussion here. And criticism is essential for improvement, you know. To my knowledge (I didn’t read every post here but big majority) no one insulted anyone.

Don’t you agree that there’s a lot in the game (and this patch) that can be made better or different?

Btw. I don’t like your post and I don’t mean to insult you. It’s just my opinion on your opinion.

If you want to know what players liked about the updates, then I’ll tell you my opinion about them. The update I liked the most was the Bazaar one. I’m also liking this current update (Queen Jubilee) quite a lot. Actually, I even created a post on reddit about how much I liked the Bazaar update.

Reasons for me to like the Bazaar update?

First, I like jumping puzzles and I liked trying to find all those crystals quite a lot. Note that I did not look at guides while trying to find them, which made the process quite fun. I do quite a lot of WvW nowadays and did not completely explore the world. The second part I liked so much about the update was finding the large kites. I feel they were well positioned in jumping puzzles and mini-dungeons I had not visited before. The achoevements gave me an incentive to do them and once there, I noticed the great content I had missed that was already in the game. The fact that these jumping puzzles and mini-dungeons were populated was also quite interesting to explore. Some were tough to figure out and watching others do it made it fun to figure out.

That brings me to Queen Jubilee’s update. I’m liking the gauntlet quite a lot and the fact that I can see other people’s strategy torwards winning those battles gives me ideas on how to figure them out also. I really like challenging content that I do not need to read a tutorial to figure out while not being simple and straightforward. I have only done two baloon events and have not done the torch runs yet, but just this gauntlet could keep me interested for the rest of the month.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Thanks for the feedback everyone and please keep it coming. Personally, I find that one of the hardest parts of being a desginer on GW2 Live is coming to terms with the fact that not every update will please every player. We do our best to deliver appealing content with enough variety to keep as many people as satisfied as possible. And If there’s one thing we can do consistently, it’s improving the experience of said content each time. I think we made some great strides with the Jubilee. I think we have a lot of room to keep growing. But our team isn’t done yet. We’ve got some exciting things coming later this month. Things you’ve never seen in this game before.

But in the mean time, please keep telling us what you’re thinking. We are listening. Not only to what you’re saying but also to what you’re not. The very first living world team actually did the thing some of you have called for. Some 40 or so permanent events were added around the game in our very first content update. They were met with little interest or fanfare. Granted, Halloween may have stolen the show. But those events are still in the game today. I’ve seen very little reaction to them, however, positive or negative. Despite this, there are many events I would still like to add. Many zones and bosses I would love to revisit. As we get better at the living world, I strongly suspect we’ll have room to get around to them as well. Assuming that’s what our players really want. You are all the second half of the collaborative process, so thanks for helping!

My god it’s the first time I’ve seen so many possible tl;dr in a thread… the amount of feedback in here is too d*** high!! (I think, can’t read all of them will take me hours T_T).

Well to contribute with my part for the thread, I’m actually liking this chapter of the LS and next Tuesday there will be another update (yay!), so let’s see how everything keeps going since so far they’ve been making some great changes to the game

Well I can’t stay away from feedback posts usually. Gotta add my two copper’s worth.

Overall I can see where OP is coming from though generally I think it was a bit over-dramatized. I have been on development projects where you start out with a goal, and the route to the goal gradually deviates for very good reasons. So this “Manifesto” or whatever that gets spoken of — yes, grand goals. Then reality hits. As an engineer, I’ve long practice in walking this lines between requirements, desirements (yes it’s sort of a word that gets bandied about in documents), and optional goals.

I think ANet has a solid foundation in which to create something really interestingly fun and I think it’s actually moving in that direction and they’re learning in the process. The developer’s comment here was particularly telling. To paraphrase: “We added [stuff]… didn’t get feedback.” So, lessons learned. It’s very hard to add random stuff to such a diverse and complex world and have your players know that it was special. I’ve got 3 80’s and many more on the way and I don’t level by crafting (under the notion that if I can’t stand to play them to 80, why am I bothering to have a level 80 of that profession in the first place?) I KNOW I haven’t seen everything. Hell I’ve got 3 Asura and I think I ran across the Captain Planet golem joke for the first time in a year! Thus ANet found out they need to put up some indicators if they are doing more than tweaking.

Flame and Frost was a solid undertaking. They learned about pacing and storytelling here. Too fast (Southsun #1) and people don’t have time to complete it. Too slow (F&F Phase 1 — Sign repair) and it gets dull and pointless.

Southsun #2 — Interesting pacing development, but they learned they really need work on character development, and storytelling methods

Aetherblade / Mai Trin / Detective Chick : Pacing has settled down. The standard seems to be to keep things available for overlapping 1 month periods, thus the 2 week cycle. I think this is a really good pace. Makes things EASILY achievable on a time scale, but keeps story progressing. Better storytelling.

Queen’s Jubilee — Overall I find this update a bit meh, but I’m solidly in the camp of take it or leave it without feeling the OCD need to do everything. I did the story and the little pie stuff. I completed it all in under 4 hours. No great time involved. The story is a little meh, but hoping for a little more action soon. Zero interest in banging my head against weird bosses where I have to pay to enter, so fine. I’ll go do something else.

And that’s really the key. People are forcing themselves to do things for reasons they can’t even seem to adequately explain.

And now the next development sprint meeting is upon me so I will just leave this here.

So grind tickets for hours = got one shot = waste kittenload of time
oh well, nothing new, same kitten like always