Guild Wars 2

SOR morale is low because they know ZD was just the nail in the coffin. Bg was going to 3peat this match up no matter what

Darkjoy.3092:

Axle.5182:

ZD’s will be gone back to SFR by the end of the League when their native home settles down and they can fit back in, SFR did the very same thing as BG which resulted in ZD’s departure in the first place take a leaf out of SFR’s book put some control measures in place don’t try and stack time zones or you will find native established guilds will get fed up and jump ship.

you should worry about your own server. BG’s old core guilds in all time zones have been carrying us, not ZD. Black gate has the heart of a fighter

Hey Dark, his point is a fair one don’t stack a timezone, which many on BG agree with
I know AFTL only recently transferred to SoR but Axle may have drunk too much of the Kool-Aid already if you could please tell me how we stacked a timezone or anything of the sort

We did receive an influx of militia and PvX players who came over due to BG getting the world first Tequatl kill, but these players all came to BG due to the hard effort of the server and enjoying the time they spent when they guested here and choose to make BG their new home, we did not recruit them but welcomed them and hope they enjoy their new home (and hopefully join one of the WvW guilds)

of the 3 top NA servers JQ got the most recruits guild wise, but could still use NA and EU guilds, SoR got the next highest number but they too could use some Oceanics and late NA, BG lost Oceanic, SEA and EU guilds, but did gain enough to replace those lost

What you are seeing is the BG core WvW, PvX guilds working hard with established and new militia, we currently have a high moral which naturally increases the numbers present, it took us a few weeks to adjust to the change in dynamics on the server, plus people are pushing hard due to leagues

Im sure im not alone in hoping that all 6 gold league servers could reach a balance between each other, but while people continue to point the blame, exaggerate and play victim instead of being honest, open and transparent I don’t see that happening

have fun and see you on the field

Someone should rename this thread “11/1 BG/BG/BG (Gold League Round 3)” cuz they’re definitely out blobbing this PvF match.

Congratz to the under-stacked server BG taking first in leagues.

I am sure we will see many posts on how the underdogs won.

KeeZee.7312:

Congratz to the under-stacked server BG taking first in leagues.

I am sure we will see many posts on how the underdogs won.

followed by many posts of excuses

Chris.3290:

Something in the water about Russian guilds that make NA T1 lose their freaking minds.

RG’s small group did a mindjob on SoS back in the day and now ZDs is repeating history.
I see disturbing similarities between the SoR mindset these days ans SoS right before it imploded.
Keep it together over there. TC’s body is not ready for this.

Red Guard is/was a UK guild. Definately as in-the-know as the rest of the post… So points for uniformity

Are there any good pvp solo roamers from SOS. I would like to encounter them.

ZDs actually started logging in about Midnight ET, fielding 10 people to walk yaks in BGBL. It’s a big change because this was previously uncontested that a single thief could disrupt supply caravans headed to Garry.

That additional manpower creates a very effective havoc group for that hour, and I admit that they are more skilled and coordinated than any other permanent BG guild.

They’re a great addition to your team, don’t lose them at the end of the season.

MagiKarp.8201:

So Question 1;

Why is SoR throwing this match?

Thanks.

They aren’t, remember they don’t care about the ppt…..

Personally I’m actually quite impressed by SoR as a server, their ability to just give up and as server make a decision not to show up to “fight” is amazing.

I have many times when SoS/BG was losing to tell them “just take it easy, give up” been met with “Never give up, never surrender” lines or just generally ignored and we can’t win but keep the margin within 20k.

Whereas SoR just has this ultimate command over their guilds/player who just decide as a collective to quit.

kanderous.7512:

ZDs actually started logging in about Midnight ET, fielding 10 people to walk yaks in BGBL. It’s a big change because this was previously uncontested that a single thief could disrupt supply caravans headed to Garry.

That additional manpower creates a very effective havoc group for that hour, and I admit that they are more skilled and coordinated than any other permanent BG guild.

They’re a great addition to your team, don’t lose them at the end of the season.

“They [ZDs] are more skilled and coordinated than any other permanent BG guild”.

Boom. They will carry BG on their backs for the next 4 weeks.

MagiKarp.8201:

Personally I’m actually quite impressed by SoR as a server, their ability to just give up and as server make a decision not to show up to “fight” is amazing.

I have many times when SoS/BG was losing to tell them “just take it easy, give up” been met with “Never give up, never surrender” lines or just generally ignored and we can’t win but keep the margin within 20k.

Whereas SoR just has this ultimate command over their guilds/player who just decide as a collective to quit.

I’d understand that opinion since you’re seeing it from a different side of the fence.

Over here, what I’m seeing is that our fairweathers and militia tend to quit early, yet you still see guilds like TW, Choo, Die sticking it out during late NA.

Our TS was also being DDOSed. It happens every time BG pushes for something or can’t take something from SoR’s grip.

I can’t say much about our OCX and SEA guilds, that’s their decision. Prolly playing Battlefield 4.

SFShinigami.2015:

Someone should rename this thread “11/1 BG/BG/BG (Gold League Round 3)” cuz they’re definitely out blobbing this PvF match.

Coming from the guy who shouldn’t even be posting here. Continue crying, JQ tears are most delicious.

KeeZee.7312:

Congratz to the under-stacked server BG taking first in leagues.

I am sure we will see many posts on how the underdogs won.

Yea, we kinda were the underdogs, did you see the scores prior to season 1? We had a huge coverage gap due to the loss of MERC, TKG and SUPR.

kanderous.7512:

MagiKarp.8201:

Personally I’m actually quite impressed by SoR as a server, their ability to just give up and as server make a decision not to show up to “fight” is amazing.

I have many times when SoS/BG was losing to tell them “just take it easy, give up” been met with “Never give up, never surrender” lines or just generally ignored and we can’t win but keep the margin within 20k.

Whereas SoR just has this ultimate command over their guilds/player who just decide as a collective to quit.

I’d understand that opinion since you’re seeing it from a different side of the fence.

Over here, what I’m seeing is that our fairweathers and militia tend to quit early, yet you still see guilds like TW, Choo, Die sticking it out during late NA.

Our TS was also being DDOSed. It happens every time BG pushes for something or can’t take something from SoR’s grip.

I can’t say much about our OCX and SEA guilds, that’s their decision. Prolly playing Battlefield 4.

We love (and hate) the old guard still coming out doing their best for the server, the ones truly out for the fights and we have nothing but respect for them especially when moral on the server is low, so please dont take comments like karp’s to be directed at those who are out there trying their hardest

the oceanic guilds like HIRE and OCX are still out there as well as the SEA, but our NA are doing a beast of a job it is just hard for your OCX n SEA guilds as we are able to break their wp’s before they can log in and keep them that way

not sure whats happening to your TS but i hope it gets sorted out asap, no one on BG condones that sort of crap

see you on the field

Mirsa.1628:

kanderous.7512:

ZDs actually started logging in about Midnight ET, fielding 10 people to walk yaks in BGBL. It’s a big change because this was previously uncontested that a single thief could disrupt supply caravans headed to Garry.

That additional manpower creates a very effective havoc group for that hour, and I admit that they are more skilled and coordinated than any other permanent BG guild.

They’re a great addition to your team, don’t lose them at the end of the season.

“They [ZDs] are more skilled and coordinated than any other permanent BG guild”.

Boom. They will carry BG on their backs for the next 4 weeks.

We know for a fact they are more skilled than IRON. Boom?

Kreen.3925:

MagiKarp.8201:

So Question 1;

Why is SoR throwing this match?

Thanks.

They aren’t, remember they don’t care about the ppt…..

Anyone else feel they started taking PvF notes from Maguuma ?

Maelwaedd.5842:

kanderous.7512:

MagiKarp.8201:

Personally I’m actually quite impressed by SoR as a server, their ability to just give up and as server make a decision not to show up to “fight” is amazing.

I have many times when SoS/BG was losing to tell them “just take it easy, give up” been met with “Never give up, never surrender” lines or just generally ignored and we can’t win but keep the margin within 20k.

Whereas SoR just has this ultimate command over their guilds/player who just decide as a collective to quit.

I’d understand that opinion since you’re seeing it from a different side of the fence.

Over here, what I’m seeing is that our fairweathers and militia tend to quit early, yet you still see guilds like TW, Choo, Die sticking it out during late NA.

Our TS was also being DDOSed. It happens every time BG pushes for something or can’t take something from SoR’s grip.

I can’t say much about our OCX and SEA guilds, that’s their decision. Prolly playing Battlefield 4.

We love (and hate) the old guard still coming out doing their best for the server, the ones truly out for the fights and we have nothing but respect for them especially when moral on the server is low, so please dont take comments like karp’s to be directed at those who are out there trying their hardest

the oceanic guilds like HIRE and OCX are still out there as well as the SEA, but our NA are doing a beast of a job it is just hard for your OCX n SEA guilds as we are able to break their wp’s before they can log in and keep them that way

not sure whats happening to your TS but i hope it gets sorted out asap, no one on BG condones that sort of crap

see you on the field

Yeah, the DDOS pattern has been pretty constant for the past months. I’m glad to hear that the other main guilds are still sticking it out during their times. (Times when I’m knocked out in bed)

Azure.8412:

You know Nothing about the SoR mindset. Did you assume our mindset just from a couple of posters? SoR is very different from the SoS of the past.

SoR’s old guard is, but IRON is losing it’s mind on the forums (I know their leader is dealing with some harsh RL, but someone should really reel them in) and a lot of talk from back channels has it that a lot of people don’t like how things are being ran over there.

I’m not trolling or taking any glee from the thought (I want you to lose, not to disband). It honestly isn’t sounding good over there and I hope you pull up.

kanderous.7512:

Maelwaedd.5842:

kanderous.7512:

MagiKarp.8201:

Personally I’m actually quite impressed by SoR as a server, their ability to just give up and as server make a decision not to show up to “fight” is amazing.

I have many times when SoS/BG was losing to tell them “just take it easy, give up” been met with “Never give up, never surrender” lines or just generally ignored and we can’t win but keep the margin within 20k.

Whereas SoR just has this ultimate command over their guilds/player who just decide as a collective to quit.

I’d understand that opinion since you’re seeing it from a different side of the fence.

Over here, what I’m seeing is that our fairweathers and militia tend to quit early, yet you still see guilds like TW, Choo, Die sticking it out during late NA.

Our TS was also being DDOSed. It happens every time BG pushes for something or can’t take something from SoR’s grip.

I can’t say much about our OCX and SEA guilds, that’s their decision. Prolly playing Battlefield 4.

We love (and hate) the old guard still coming out doing their best for the server, the ones truly out for the fights and we have nothing but respect for them especially when moral on the server is low, so please dont take comments like karp’s to be directed at those who are out there trying their hardest

the oceanic guilds like HIRE and OCX are still out there as well as the SEA, but our NA are doing a beast of a job it is just hard for your OCX n SEA guilds as we are able to break their wp’s before they can log in and keep them that way

not sure whats happening to your TS but i hope it gets sorted out asap, no one on BG condones that sort of crap

see you on the field

Yeah, the DDOS pattern has been pretty constant for the past months. I’m glad to hear that the other main guilds are still sticking it out during their times. (Times when I’m knocked out in bed)

The same chap manages both SoR and JQ TS and is a righteous dude. he manages both servers really well and very fairly. For whats its worth JQ has been getting alot of DDoS and troll spamming attacks in the last few weeks as well.

Ferris Bewler.9706:

Yes please enlighten us as to what other guilds BG got in the last 1-2 weeks? Seems you know more than the people of Blackgate, my guild included which is part of the war council.. So yeah please feel free to tell me who else did we massively and magically recruit in the last 2 weeks?

Also I thinks its hilarious, go back to the last 2 weeks before seasons and read all the posts from mostly these same trolls and forum wariors from JQ and SOR… Not 1 of you gave BG a chance to win in our 1 v 1 matchups much less a 3 way… Not 1 of you posted anything other to than the fact BG would get their butts kicked in seasons and the best we could do is 3rd at best! Yall remember those posts? Cause guess what… we here at BG remember them.. and whether you show up or dont show up over the season i dont really care. Beating your server to dust is still satisfying for me, Hopefully out of the rubble a real fight will arise.

Is the cutoff just two weeks? Interesting you don’t mention anything about the 12 NA guilds you bought 3 weeks ago…

Chris.3290:

Kreen.3925:

MagiKarp.8201:

So Question 1;

Why is SoR throwing this match?

Thanks.

They aren’t, remember they don’t care about the ppt…..

Anyone else feel they started taking PvF notes from Maguuma ?

Nope, Mag are the copy cats in that respect. Certain folks on SoR have been telling us ppt doesn’t matter for many months.

I really hope they get their mojo back or whatever the kitten is going on gets fixed because I love fighting those folks, awesome server really, very well organised in WvW. When you beat them you know you have measured up and not been found wanting.

Jayne.9251:

Jado Cast.1805:

I’m happy BULL chose SoR, This should make things fun. Now if SoR and BG could politely point the next EU guild interested in moving to NA, to JQ before week 5 that would be greatly appreciated.

IF and I said IF, BG wins season one, I don’t want to hear Stackgate excuses.

There are four EU guilds that I know of being offered “incentives” to go to SoR currently. Aside from BuLL, I wouldn’t worry too much

Will miss fighting you guys in BuLL. Come back soon!

What are they using for currency? Bottled tears? Oh and if/when BuLL comes to SoR it will be for life. SoR has already made it clear that they don’t want anything less than devoted people to their utopia of servers where the grass is greenest and the air is cleansed of any fart-lighting heathens. All those who fail this request are to be terminated via liquidation and forged into iron. On second thought, fart-lighters don’t seem so bad.

Darkjoy.3092:

Mirsa.1628:

kanderous.7512:

ZDs actually started logging in about Midnight ET, fielding 10 people to walk yaks in BGBL. It’s a big change because this was previously uncontested that a single thief could disrupt supply caravans headed to Garry.

That additional manpower creates a very effective havoc group for that hour, and I admit that they are more skilled and coordinated than any other permanent BG guild.

They’re a great addition to your team, don’t lose them at the end of the season.

“They [ZDs] are more skilled and coordinated than any other permanent BG guild”.

Boom. They will carry BG on their backs for the next 4 weeks.

We know for a fact they are more skilled than IRON. Boom?

How do you know? We haven’t even had proper fights. But we do know that permanent BG guilds are much more lackluster and skilled compared to ZDs.

You might want to hold off on chest-thumping about your new guild. Your rent-a-season contract with them will be over in a few weeks and you’ll find yourself with a server that hasn’t grown any better because you were carried for an entire season.

Russian guilds enter the NA scene….

Rhaegus.8924:

Russian guilds enter the NA scene….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omm3QPMqyjc

Pretty accurate if you watch them marching yaks. XD

I’d like to request that SoR continue to play like this when you face us. Please? PLEASE?

lol

Akkadian.7206:

Jayne.9251:

Jado Cast.1805:

I’m happy BULL chose SoR, This should make things fun. Now if SoR and BG could politely point the next EU guild interested in moving to NA, to JQ before week 5 that would be greatly appreciated.

IF and I said IF, BG wins season one, I don’t want to hear Stackgate excuses.

There are four EU guilds that I know of being offered “incentives” to go to SoR currently. Aside from BuLL, I wouldn’t worry too much

Will miss fighting you guys in BuLL. Come back soon!

What are they using for currency? Bottled tears? Oh and if/when BuLL comes to SoR it will be for life. SoR has already made it clear that they don’t want anything less than devoted people to their utopia of servers where the grass is greenest and the air is cleansed of any fart-lighting heathens. All those who fail this request are to be terminated via liquidation and forged into iron. On second thought, fart-lighters don’t seem so bad.

What server was GD on before they bolted back to EU after two weeks? Was it JQ?

I heard JQ and SOR did their server meeting in mid-week of match 1.
Both server came to conclusion that BG will lose to SOR in match 2~4.
Since then, nothing has changed. BG got ZD? Thats SOR’s excuse for
throwing off the match. What other guilds did BG recived? From SOR??
I know BG lost couple of guilds that were filling EST and OCX/SEA timezone.
Stop making stupid excuses SOR and play the game. Last night at reset,
it was sooo boring, SOS gave us better fights.
The issue here is from your own server SOR, pick it up, come out and fight.
Dont blame other server for your own matters. SOR was a server who fought
SOS & JQ as an underdog server many months ago, and SOR was like little gaint.

hex.3218:

I’d like to request that SoR continue to play like this when you face us. Please? PLEASE?

lol

ah nothing i can do to help but i will give you one support.

Jayne.9251:

Akkadian.7206:

Jayne.9251:

Jado Cast.1805:

I’m happy BULL chose SoR, This should make things fun. Now if SoR and BG could politely point the next EU guild interested in moving to NA, to JQ before week 5 that would be greatly appreciated.

IF and I said IF, BG wins season one, I don’t want to hear Stackgate excuses.

There are four EU guilds that I know of being offered “incentives” to go to SoR currently. Aside from BuLL, I wouldn’t worry too much

Will miss fighting you guys in BuLL. Come back soon!

What are they using for currency? Bottled tears? Oh and if/when BuLL comes to SoR it will be for life. SoR has already made it clear that they don’t want anything less than devoted people to their utopia of servers where the grass is greenest and the air is cleansed of any fart-lighting heathens. All those who fail this request are to be terminated via liquidation and forged into iron. On second thought, fart-lighters don’t seem so bad.

What server was GD on before they bolted back to EU after two weeks? Was it JQ?

Yeah it was JQ.

SoS you’re second to TC in the number of pacifist roamers, definitely.

More often than not when I encounter one of you instead of a 1v1 it somehow becomes a dance party.

Mirsa.1628:

Darkjoy.3092:

Mirsa.1628:

kanderous.7512:

ZDs actually started logging in about Midnight ET, fielding 10 people to walk yaks in BGBL. It’s a big change because this was previously uncontested that a single thief could disrupt supply caravans headed to Garry.

That additional manpower creates a very effective havoc group for that hour, and I admit that they are more skilled and coordinated than any other permanent BG guild.

They’re a great addition to your team, don’t lose them at the end of the season.

“They [ZDs] are more skilled and coordinated than any other permanent BG guild”.

Boom. They will carry BG on their backs for the next 4 weeks.

We know for a fact they are more skilled than IRON. Boom?

How do you know? We haven’t even had proper fights. But we do know that permanent BG guilds are much more lackluster and skilled compared to ZDs.

You might want to hold off on chest-thumping about your new guild. Your rent-a-season contract with them will be over in a few weeks and you’ll find yourself with a server that hasn’t grown any better because you were carried for an entire season.

currently Zds wiping IRON in Bg bl at this time

hex.3218:

I’d like to request that SoR continue to play like this when you face us. Please? PLEASE?

lol

Mighty nice weather JQ’s having. Good week to come back.

Punny.9210:

Mirsa.1628:

Darkjoy.3092:

Mirsa.1628:

kanderous.7512:

ZDs actually started logging in about Midnight ET, fielding 10 people to walk yaks in BGBL. It’s a big change because this was previously uncontested that a single thief could disrupt supply caravans headed to Garry.

That additional manpower creates a very effective havoc group for that hour, and I admit that they are more skilled and coordinated than any other permanent BG guild.

They’re a great addition to your team, don’t lose them at the end of the season.

“They [ZDs] are more skilled and coordinated than any other permanent BG guild”.

Boom. They will carry BG on their backs for the next 4 weeks.

We know for a fact they are more skilled than IRON. Boom?

How do you know? We haven’t even had proper fights. But we do know that permanent BG guilds are much more lackluster and skilled compared to ZDs.

You might want to hold off on chest-thumping about your new guild. Your rent-a-season contract with them will be over in a few weeks and you’ll find yourself with a server that hasn’t grown any better because you were carried for an entire season.

currently Zds wiping IRON in Bg bl at this time

Map blob ZDs with commander tag vs 30ish IRON tagless

its bound to happen, turns out IRON is actually benefiting from this experience combat wise because all ZDs are doing is spamming 1

im counting around 30 ZDs neither …. ( tagless )

cof cof [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/PwUP1Xz.jpg[/IMG]

Zd’s… and the rest of the map

Rather fight 50+ guys than gates thank you for the fights

Whenever a legitimate or serious post that explains the situation from the perspective of both sides, it gets ignored and the trolls keep repeating each other’s comments, when the answers have been stated multiple times by both sides.

Fact is SOR got caught with their pants down at the end of last weekend. Then ZD’S showed up. SOR could not rally in time or the forces required. SOR got demoralized. SOR now gives 0 kittens about ppt and is just going to play for the fights when they have the numbers in their prime time. So yes in essence SOR gave up “trying” for first.

Fact BG did a great job making the comeback before ZD’s showed up. BG has a higher WvW population in general. It could be fairweather’s or it could be just new transfers. But overall they have gained more people. Queue’s speak for themselves. ZD’S does make impact when they fight SOR’s weak time slot. It’s may be EU but it’s not the same as SOR’s prime time EU which was also mentioned before.

Also something to keep in mind for the future. Balance and change between the top 3 servers will change, that’s a given considering the changes that have been happening to each server over the past half year. This season SOR got the wrong end of the stick. BG got a lot of news transfers and 1 major guild. Same with JQ. But who knows, if this league has a season 2, things could be different. Your server may be the one that is failing.

Botinhas.2018:

cof cof [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/PwUP1Xz.jpg[/IMG]

Zd’s… and the rest of the map

Rather fight 50+ guys than gates thank you for the fights

That is not 50+ guys. As usual, IRON cannot count.

ofc not… Zd’s runnning with 35+ and the rest

you need to go back to school then and take maths classes

stop the stupid omfg BG is so stacked QQ and start playing the game please. And yes, that does include guarding yaks and upgrading towers, it’s there to be used, and SoR do it just as much as BG do. At least, if you guys would show up and actually fight to keep your stuff instead of crying here on forums about how unfair life is. You win some, you lose some. It’s how you carry your wins and losses, and so far, SoR’s forum warriors sure are SoRe losers.

Botinhas.2018:

cof cof [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/PwUP1Xz.jpg[/IMG]

Zd’s… and the rest of the map

Rather fight 50+ guys than gates thank you for the fights

How many do you count on this screenshot

Chris.3290:

Azure.8412:

You know Nothing about the SoR mindset. Did you assume our mindset just from a couple of posters? SoR is very different from the SoS of the past.

SoR’s old guard is, but IRON is losing it’s mind on the forums (I know their leader is dealing with some harsh RL, but someone should really reel them in) and a lot of talk from back channels has it that a lot of people don’t like how things are being ran over there.

I’m not trolling or taking any glee from the thought (I want you to lose, not to disband). It honestly isn’t sounding good over there and I hope you pull up.

Just because a few are trolling the forums and 1 or 2 are talking about them getting kicked out of TS(Whether it’s true or not I’M not sure) you assume it’s bad in SoR? I’ve been on SoS in it’s glory days and believe me, SoR is infinitely better managed. We do have 1 or 2 issues, but it’s nowhere near the amount of issues SoS had. If you want to assume something, use substantial evidence or come over and see things for yourself, thanks.

LetoII.3782:

hex.3218:

I’d like to request that SoR continue to play like this when you face us. Please? PLEASE?

lol

Mighty nice weather JQ’s having. Good week to come back.

There won’t be anything to come back to. The Season is already doing funny things to guilds… another week of second place might hurt more than you think.

Multiple SEA/EU guilds followed ZDs to BG.

12 NA guilds went to BG in the weeks before leagues.

- Please SoR…. start naming these guilds for us instead of these random claims.

There is no reasoning, other than a few SoR people with a semi-realistic view of WWW.

You are a bunch of fairweather kittens with nothing but excuses. Grow a pair and start “not caring” for PPT and kittening fight.
This is getting rediculous.

That is 1h later when the rest of SoR came to the bdl, nice try with the ac’s though

BG is stacked. The population of BG was “Full” a few days before the leagues. So stop trying to say you aren’t BG citizen, JQ isn’t at that level yet. Nothing we can do about BG paying gold to ruin T1.

Hopefully guilds such as HB, RK, & Coin find competitive fights. Otherwise it would be really boring to be in BG right now during off NA hours. I know IRON is getting tons of fights every direction they go ahaha. I hear BG got queues on all maps lololol. Vodka guild leaves because of queues, move to a server who now has queues on all maps.

hex.3218:

LetoII.3782:

hex.3218:

I’d like to request that SoR continue to play like this when you face us. Please? PLEASE?

lol

Mighty nice weather JQ’s having. Good week to come back.

There won’t be anything to come back to. The Season is already doing funny things to guilds… another week of second place might hurt more than you think.

Was more a remark on people being heavy commenters whenever their server is winning with conveniently timed absence during months-long losing streak.
But sure, I’m all beat up about nightcapping issues.. It’s a new thing for us rallians. <,<

Its a shame ZDs were tagged up but they eventually got the message of that Moa