Guild Wars 2

Finally found a character I hate more than Logan, Trahearne. That bum shouldn’t be leading all of Tyria in a fight against Zhaitan.

He couldn’t lead his way out of a wet paper bag if his life depended on it.

Rhinzual.7861:

He couldn’t lead his way out of a wet paper bag if his life depended on it.

Why, he would just give one of his rousing speeches to the bag, causing it to spontaneously combust.

yesterday my main char killed Zhaitan (first time for me) and given how much I like Trahearne (I don’t) and all the people raving about him in the forums (mostly for good reason) I made sure to notice how people reacted to the whole thing in the aftermath celebrations

…i have to say it did not go quite as expected. the whole thing actually made me feel as if my char was in fact treated as the hero of the story. from the lowest npc soldier/guard, to members of Destiny’s Edge and Marshal Saladbowl Carrier himself, all the credit was given to my character.

was it always that way or is it something they fixed?

I don’t know where this hate is coming from!

yes, Trahearne is not a very appealing character at first but he grows on you. he always refers to you as a “friend” and follows you everywhere. in the end, i did feel like there was a sort of bond between my character and Trahearne. although, i had wished it were more personal and less “comrade in arms” sort of way, but it is what it is.

He’s a very flawed hero and that’s the fun part in it, to be honest.

btw, i love his voice and the manner of his speech. i think it fits.

btw, i’m female. could it be that all this hate is just male testosterone hitting the brains for they can’t stomach seeing what they perceive to be a “inferior” male in a leading role? is this all just male ego speaking? that’s my theory…

Twill.6217:

btw, i’m female. could it be that all this hate is just male testosterone hitting the brains for they can’t stomach seeing what they perceive to be a “inferior” male in a leading role? is this all just male ego speaking? that’s my theory…

No, not at all. I have no problem with a “reluctant hero” – Aragorn (LOTR) is one, and is one of my favourite characters.

It’s just the way he delivers. His speeches lack proper vigour. He doesn’t sound like he’s about to inspire warriors of all races to do great battle to save the world, he sounds like a schoolteacher explaining the task at hand.

Also, he’s dropped on us too fast. You really don’t have the time to get to know his character at all. So you don’t care what he has to say, you don’t really care about his wyld hunt etc.

His character is a classic one. The hero who has the responsibility thrust upon him by events bigger then himself. But usually there is a transformation from whatever the hero was at first, to something else entirely, the hidden self that springs forth in the face of challenge and inspires everyone around them.
Unfortunately, Trahearne doesn’t really show anything like that. He goes from being a scholar and expert on Orr to being a scholar and expert on Orr with a big magical sword.

Twill.6217:

btw, i’m female. could it be that all this hate is just male testosterone hitting the brains for they can’t stomach seeing what they perceive to be a “inferior” male in a leading role? is this all just male ego speaking? that’s my theory…

The point is that it is personal story. The story which suppose to tell about our hero. But the story tells about not our hero, but this npc.

I wouldn’t satisfy even if instead of Trahearne would be woman.
It’s just not interesting, rolling a hero, who is a shadow in a story, which calls “personal story”, his story.

I don’t mind Trahearne to be a leader only in one case. If our character is the main figure in his story. In that case this event with Dragon shouldn’t be the main topic in PS. It can be attend in PS as a background. Something like that.

What’s a point in our hero in this plot? Who is he? On of the million soldiers, who was leading by this sylvari? Oh boy, how exiting!

Persen, who appears in our story from the nowhere, and after this take a lead (in our story), it’s just a bad joke.

I didn’t mind about prince Rurik in GW1, or Mhenlo, or the others. Because they didn’t steal our story. It doesn’t matter how important our hero in those events with killing dragons. What is important it is his own story. It could be epic, even if it’s not about killing dragon. Because the most important it is what is going on with our character, not those world events.

All those epic deeds with Zhaitan. I don’t see any epic in this, because I don’t see in this story our hero. Our hero is the person who was lucky to be commanded by this sylvari.

I don’t like Trahearne because he stole my character’s story. You know what part in personal story I like the most? What is the most interesting for me? It is that part, which tells us a little bit about character. For example “lost true parents”, where my hero finds out about his parents, who they were. Or about our hero’s sister, and so on and etc.

If the killing dragons the main subject, then our hero should be as important, as our hero in GW1. But not someone, one of the million, who are leading by some npc.

The story begins with the words: “This is MY story”. I don’t see it at all! Who is our character in this whole story? Someone who are so lucky, to be on of the million, who are leading by some npc. That’s not exiting. That’s definitely is NOT his/her story.

:(

I like Trahearne. Actually he ended up being the favorite thing in the story for me in the end.

Background: Where Life Goes – Sylvari.
(When I first met Trahearne I was more interested in another sylvari in that part of the story. Barely remembered him when I met him again. Then slowly but surely I began to idolize Trahearne just as any NPC in the game does.)

Twill.6217:

btw, i’m female. could it be that all this hate is just male testosterone hitting the brains for they can’t stomach seeing what they perceive to be a “inferior” male in a leading role? is this all just male ego speaking? that’s my theory…

I’m a female too, and I find Trahearne’s role in the story very grating.

I don’t think personal taste should always be assumed to be related to gender.

I don’t mind Trahearne being my superior during the battle against Zaitan because this is just the first dragon I encounter in the story (I’m sure I will eventually become the true hero in the future expansion). However, as a commander, I don’t feel like I am doing any commands. Oppositely, I feel like I am the one getting commanded like a normal soldier all the time. The only time I get to command somebody is during the mission “Marching Orders” in which I can tell the sylvari to put the team in stealth mode or attack formation. I’m quite sick of being told to defend this, kill that, or find that. Come on, I am a commander; I should be the one deciding what to defend, kill, or seek.

Like everyone else here, I loathed Trahearne.
He was entirely irrelevant and ham-fistedly shoved into the story instead of Destiny’s Edge, which from all the promotion they got before launch you thought that was what they were going to do, kill a dragon.

But no, instead they bugger off and we get this cabbage head instead.
It’s not that I don’t understand why he is there, but my biggest problem with him is that is has zero character/personality. He is stiff, humorless, uninteresting, poorly voice acted, and ugly as sin.
He should have been regulated to a bit character and no more.

Whoever’s decision it was to put this terrible character front and center, should not be writing for Anet anymore, they should be put in a broom closet to think about how badly they screwed this up. A rock would have be more entertaining.
And there were so many other interesting characters to pick from, why Trahearne? Whyyyyyyyyyyyy!

Most of the story leading up to the pact was really very good, and the first 20 levels worth of personal story is some of the most fun I’ve had in a long time.
But I’m pretty sure Trahearne is Zhiatan in disguise, because as soon as he shows up the story dies right then and there.

I honestly can’t bring myself to finish the story again, it’s that bad. I’ll go up to lvl 50-60 or so, but I refuse to be around him.

Trahearne is a poorly voice and poorly designed Mary-Sue. He has credit for things he did not do, has no character progression and yet goes from being a wandering semi-Gandalfesque character to blood thirsty general in the space of two missions.

Also his voice actor seems to have had no training in acting, nor emotional range.

He’s the reason why I skip the animated dialogues after Trahearne received the sword. I used to like listening to the story, never skipping anything but Trahearne changed my mind.

People have been telling ANet this since day one. They’re not going to change anything.

Wow!! All this hate!!

The only thing I hate about Trahearne is his ugly looks. Hes a yucky black and green leafed character with no special features. Other than that the guy was pretty good.

The way the story is presented makes it a little impossible for “The Commander” to be the one in charge. The amount of decisions just couldn’t be done in such an MMO sense. Especially if you want an open world where you have hundreds of Commanders running around.
So the next best thing was to make another character push the bulk of the story decisions and leave you as secondin command to lead specific important missions. In essence you were Commander Shepard, Master Chief etc. You were the main frontline fighter; not the tactician.

Also Trahearne didn’t lead the assault on Zhaitan. He just weakened the Dragons hold and cleansed Orr. Destiny’s Edge lead the assault on the dragon with your Commander and his pose helping him.

Lastly you must remeber that this is the story that started the counter attack aginst the Dragons. It’s the first story of probably 5 expansion packs worth of missions. 9 Dragons I believe?

Trahearne’s lack of character progression is probably a poorly implimented story telling design to make your character the life of the party. Too bad the Commander is not full of any jokes or anger either. Then again, maybe someone with no issues was needed to get the ball rolling and unite a nation.

One story point I thought was going to be in the game was a huge failure mission where Trahearne makes a bad call and starts to lose allies. then the commander has to step up and bring up people’s hopes again so Trahearne can continue leading. But somehow that great mission never came.

I have no problem with another NPC being the main character of the personal story but Trahearne is so kitten boring and unmotivated. No charismatics at all. Don’t remember much what he said though…probably because I did not listen because of the bad voice acting.

I will sum up my feelings about Trahearne with two simple points:

1. A future expansion should develop Trahearne into an amoral bad guy
Reasoning: The dude has no character development so far, needs a good plot-twister.

2. There should be alternate final-companion-routes added to Personal Story besides Trahearne
Reasoning: Being pigeonholed into going along Trahearne sucks.

I juts got to level 50 with this storyline and there is the Battle for Claw Island which is really badly designed. Infinitely re-spawning enemies with no indication of how long you have to fight them for. I though the quest had glitched so I logged out.

I thought I’d be safe in the personal storyline from mobs spawning out of nothing right next to you, over and over, but it seems this is Zombie Wars.

Ah there’s also the part where you have to hit the ship with a trebuchet…. reminded me of bad mobile phone games.

ANet could take some lessons from Japanese game design, just saying. Phantasy Star is coming soon.

Gaudrath.6725:

Twill.6217:

btw, i’m female. could it be that all this hate is just male testosterone hitting the brains for they can’t stomach seeing what they perceive to be a “inferior” male in a leading role? is this all just male ego speaking? that’s my theory…

No, not at all. I have no problem with a “reluctant hero” – Aragorn (LOTR) is one, and is one of my favourite characters.

It’s just the way he delivers. His speeches lack proper vigour. He doesn’t sound like he’s about to inspire warriors of all races to do great battle to save the world, he sounds like a schoolteacher explaining the task at hand.

Also, he’s dropped on us too fast. You really don’t have the time to get to know his character at all. So you don’t care what he has to say, you don’t really care about his wyld hunt etc.

His character is a classic one. The hero who has the responsibility thrust upon him by events bigger then himself. But usually there is a transformation from whatever the hero was at first, to something else entirely, the hidden self that springs forth in the face of challenge and inspires everyone around them.
Unfortunately, Trahearne doesn’t really show anything like that. He goes from being a scholar and expert on Orr to being a scholar and expert on Orr with a big magical sword.

Actually, this nails it precisely.

Trahearne is trying to fill that same role as Aragorn: A reluctant hero with an important destiny that he feels is unattainable, wielding a legendary blade who leads the people to victory against an unambiguously evil foe who seeks to poison all of the land and destroy all that is good for no other reason than because it can.

Unfortunately, this sort of character is sort of a marathon of character development, taking him from this simple loner who has abandoned his destiny all the way to a major leader and moral figure. And Trahearne trips and falls face-first right out of the starting gate.

The key problem is that characters like Aragorn always start out with a natural charisma that makes them feel like a true leader and someone worth following, even if they don’t show it right away (in fact, Aragorn’s leadership qualities don’t start to show until after Gandalf’s fall in Moria). And Trahearne doesn’t have that quality. He’s not charismatic, he’s whiny. I don’t feel like I want to follow him, I feel like I want to punch him.

And he doesn’t even make his own decisions as a leader, I make them for him. I know that me making the decisions is part of it being “my story”, but the problem with that is that you’re making your “leader” seem totally incompetent. Why not just put me in the leadership role, and have Trahearne be the second-in-command. We can still achieve his goal of purifying Orr or whatever the hell it is he does, but just make it so that I’m actually the leader. That means it makes sense to follow my decisions because I’m in charge. When the second-in-command is always the one deciding what to do and where to go, that makes the “leader” not much of one.

People keep saying Trahearn should become a villian as a twist. I think it would be a far more effective twist making him into a character I actually respected.

Bit more challenging to write, but it might retroactively justify some of the junk up to that point.

Adding my voice to the negative feedback on Trahearne. I don’t find him a credible hero character. He is just plain annoying. The main issues for me is that he starts off quite pathetic and then without any believable character development he’s suddenly in charge and apparently some great leader. The script is mundane, full of platitudes, without any depth, and the voice acting is flat and uninspiring.

To be honest, the whole of Destiny’s Edge seems like a young teenager’s club with soap opera drama and tantrums. I’d like to give them all a smack in the mouth.

Would love to meet some npcs with real personality.

Mirette.7821:

Adding my voice to the negative feedback on Trahearne. I don’t find him a credible hero character. He is just plain annoying. The main issues for me is that he starts off quite pathetic and then without any believable character development he’s suddenly in charge and apparently some great leader. The script is mundane, full of platitudes, without any depth, and the voice acting is flat and uninspiring.

To be honest, the whole of Destiny’s Edge seems like a young teenager’s club with soap opera drama and tantrums. I’d like to give them all a smack in the mouth.

Would love to meet some npcs with real personality.

Snaff died… I’m sure that is reason enough for them to argue the way they did.

Hi all,

I don’t hate “Twiggy” but I kinda understand why people dislike it. For me he is disappointing and I will try to explain it through my personal story (Asura Guardian)
Basicly you can devide your storyline in 3 sections.

1: Starting out

First you learn that your Krew is very important and you start this game growing a bond with them. Then once you switch to one of the 3 fractions (I picked vigil) you never hear of your Krew again or see them again. (Which is kinda odd since it is “your” Krew and being part of that is super important as an Asura)

2: Mid section:

Then I was/am part of the Vigil and you grow a bond with your Vigil buddy/commander through adventures. Once you do the Claw island story line, you loose that person too.
This is the second time that there is a group you are part of that falls apart while you spend a good 20 levels with them. (This time more understandable/brave)

3: The end

In comes “twiggy” and you go on a journey. What changes here is that instead of him really going on an adventure with you, he kinda stands on the sideline (That is how it feels) So there is not really anything that makes you feel like he is a good part of your personal story plus we already learned that in previous story lines friends will be never heard of or die.

No where in the story line there is ever a moment when “twiggy” feels personal or does anything that makes you like him. He simply is there and simply gives orders.

Then at the end when you fight Zhaitan ( Something you have been working to for 80 levels and suppose to be a huge climax) the 3rd personal buddy in you story line doesn’t even come along/help/stand by your side.

Trahearne does not feel like your Krew/Vigil but feels like a filled in spot since you don’t know him. My big suggestion is, trade Trahearne with someone from your personal storyline that you know/been on adventures with/since level 1.

Let the leader be someone you grow a bond with. Another option is, once you defeated Zhaitan and you are celebrating have all the people in your storyline (Krew, Vigil, DE) stand there to celebrate with you. They all have been part of your path to this big climax.

I don’t see any as a leader except our playable hero.

Personal story suppose to be personal, not someone else. I feel like we are the shadows in our own story.
PS is part of offline RPG, right? Okay, what we have in RPG? We have story which tells us about character we play.

Gothic 1-3, who is the main figure in the plot? King Robar? No. Diego? No. It is our nameless hero.

Neverwinter NIghts. Who is the main hero? Lady Aribeth? No. Lord Nasher? No. But it is our playable hero.

Who is the main figure in Personal Story? Our hero? No. Trahearne? Yes! This is silly! Yes, Trahearne can be an important figure in the plot, but not the one, who the plot is talking about. That’s why I don’t like Trahearn.
I’m okay with voice character, I find it good. But I can’t stand when some npc take all the credit in my character’s story. It’s not interesting.
I’m not talking about taking all the credit in killing Dragon, as being historical person, doing historical things. I’m talking about some npc taking all the credit as being the persone who PS is talking about.

My problem with Trahearne isn’t that he steals the credit for everything we do, it’s that he sucks. He’s got no personality. At least the other salad heads have too much personality. But not Trahearne! He’s like the plain ice burg lettuce salad head man with no dressing. Who eats that? Lamest hero ever.

Proseph.3504:

Mirette.7821:

Adding my voice to the negative feedback on Trahearne. I don’t find him a credible hero character. He is just plain annoying. The main issues for me is that he starts off quite pathetic and then without any believable character development he’s suddenly in charge and apparently some great leader. The script is mundane, full of platitudes, without any depth, and the voice acting is flat and uninspiring.

To be honest, the whole of Destiny’s Edge seems like a young teenager’s club with soap opera drama and tantrums. I’d like to give them all a smack in the mouth.

Would love to meet some npcs with real personality.

Snaff died… I’m sure that is reason enough for them to argue the way they did.

No argument about the reason, just the standard of character development, and the quality of the dialogue.

Too much un-skippable Trahearne dialogue outside of the actual dialogue cutscreens. Waiting for Trahearne and whomever to shut their gobs so I can talk to him (or whomever) in a cut scene is infuriating.

I’m not going to go through the whole thread so here is my opinion.

I don’t think the main problem is necessarily Traeherne himself but the writing for the last part and the hype they built up. Obviously, the ending branches would have to merge together at some point for the sake of consistency, otherwise this game could easily become too convoluted for the team. However, there was more that they could have done.

If Trahearne must be the leader then they should have at least provided hints about him for the other races. Such as the order recruiters mentioning him. Clearly, if the Order leaders respect him he must be accomplishing something and fairly well known. There is no need for hero worship, but maybe little snippits from the areas he may have went to from npc’s if you talk to them maybe say something about him being useful with…something. Just anything so when we see him we would have reason to respect him as an adventurer.

I think in the last arc that Trahearne is too in the player’s face. In GW1 we had Ruric, Togo, and Kormir. They were introduced to us at the beginning of the game and it was easy to acknowledge them as the player’s leaders. Also, they were not as much in our face coming with us all the time. Instead of Trahearne coming with us why not introduce the player’s buddies as joining the pact and becoming our partners. It will 1) add to our homes life, and 2) keep Trahearne out of our faces. Was it really necessary to have him come with us to check on the lumber and the resources when he the leader has better things to do when preparing for the battle. This would have been the perfect time to reintroduce us to our home friends.

The main thing that started to turn me against was at the end of the quest of “Marshaling the Truth” during the fear of being dishonored by allies. When it was made clear that I didn’t purposely order my troops to fire on the pact was when he said that he was the target. Bullkitten, the mesmer tricked me, I was the target. In fact, I was the one who got the Orders under the pact. Just little things like that started to grate on my nerves. I can understand the player not being the head honcho, just a little more respect would be nice.

Also, I noticed my Asura isn’t acting Asuran anymore after she got inducted into the Orders. The most blatant example was when we were entering the temple of Grenth in Abadon and an Asuran said something along the lines “for you nongeniuses…” Why didn’t my Asura fire back with something along the lines of “Excuse me, but I am a respected alumni of [college].” No Asura would let a slight to his/her intelligence stand!

You guys have made a good game, but I think you guys hyped things up a little too much, same problem Mass Effect 3 had. With that said, I also think you could have done more with wrapping up some details.

Sorry for the double post, but more has come to mind. Even if your home friends really must not be your partners. Just seeing them and giving them a line of dialog such as, “Your accomplishments have inspired me to join the pact. Even if Trahearne is the leader, your friends and family at home have not forgotten you.” This would do much for hammering the point in that your home has not forgotten you even if everyone else has.

What would have been more appropriate that instead of the leader coming with us, why not give us some mini—or subordinates would be more appropriate instead of having Trahearne seemingly micromanage us. I think some of the hate is uncalled for and Trahearne has become the whipping boy, but nothing that better writing couldn’t fix. Just downplay him next time, and show us that we have not been forgotten at home.

I just noticed this subforum’s subtitle: Personal story: it really is all about you.

HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE

unless you are a sylvari i don’t think it is ever even explained what a “wyld hunt” actually is, even though treeman blabbers about it all the time

Twill.6217:

I don’t know where this hate is coming from!

yes, Trahearne is not a very appealing character at first but he grows on you. he always refers to you as a “friend” and follows you everywhere. in the end, i did feel like there was a sort of bond between my character and Trahearne. although, i had wished it were more personal and less “comrade in arms” sort of way, but it is what it is.

He’s a very flawed hero and that’s the fun part in it, to be honest.

btw, i love his voice and the manner of his speech. i think it fits.

btw, i’m female. could it be that all this hate is just male testosterone hitting the brains for they can’t stomach seeing what they perceive to be a “inferior” male in a leading role? is this all just male ego speaking? that’s my theory…

I could make an equally offensive sexist and illformed remark about female passivity but I at least will show some restraint.

When it comes to fiction since nothing is real and everything can only go forward by so much as it can believed, then an “inferior” male being randomly elevated into a leading role when there is a much more obvious and fitting character who actually necessitates and will be treated as if they occupied the leading role, even when it is denied them for no adequately explained reason, creates an unbelieveable progression that ruins the beleiveability of the fiction.

As was said before, everyone treats our hero as if they were the real leader, as if they were the real hero. We progress through so much of the earlier part of the game as a very, no as the most important character in the unfolding story, the one that everyone looks to for guidance and decision making. When a choice about which plan of the 3 organizations must be chosen it is our character who makes that choice. When the representatives of the 5 species are gathered to decide how to confront Zhaitan it is our character who is chosen to attend. At every turn it is our character around which the story revolves. So why does Trahearne, a man with no leadership ability, no affiliation with any of the organizations, no assocaition with any of the species leaders, no divine right or any other claim to the position other than that he was there and he wasn’t us, get the leadership position and become the fake hero?

This is even more unsightly than the Gore vs Bush election where everyone knew Gore had won yet for some strange and unfathomable reason Bush was the one inaugurated into office.

I suppose you would be ok with a mystery novel where in order to have an ending that would surprise even the sharpest and most devout mystery fan by revealing the killer to be the only person who was completely innocent and not the actual villain that the reader saw holding the smoking gun. While that certainly would be a big plot twist it would also be a complete failure of the genre where the villain has to actually be capable of being found culpable based on the tricky trail layed out by the author.

And if you cannot tell I really hate the idea of a flawed hero. The story always seems forced, as if you are reading this and nodding ok ok but always in the back of your mind is this little voice saying that it just doesn’t make sense. If the hero is flawed then by their own nature they would not be able to do what is asked of them and the only way they do manage to accomplish it is by the handwaving of the author by whos hand this character was made into a flawed hero in the first place. Authors should either make heroes who the audience believes capable of performing the task by their own natures or else they should make heroes who fail to accomplish the task because of their own flawed nature.

Also in my hate list is heavy handed story telling and unnecessary and ridiculous sacrifices. Ex when your mentor dies on claw island. There were like 300 hundred undead vaunting for that gate, it was pretty obvious that leaving one person behind the locked gate wasn’t even going to buy us one extra millisecond of time. My actual reactiion leading up to this scene was “Really Anet? Really?” I don’t even know why the undead wasted time attacking claw island. It would have been sound to simply keep their ships underwater until they reached their actual destination where they could have unloaded their entire army unmolested and then launched a surprise attack. And that clearly was the purpose and reason why they were using submersible ships.

thunderstone.2861:

The main thing that started to turn me against was at the end of the quest of “Marshaling the Truth” during the fear of being dishonored by allies. When it was made clear that I didn’t purposely order my troops to fire on the pact was when he said that he was the target. Bullkitten, the mesmer tricked me, I was the target. In fact, I was the one who got the Orders under the pact. Just little things like that started to grate on my nerves. I can understand the player not being the head honcho, just a little more respect would be nice.

This was the part where I started to get annoyed by Trahearne as well. What? You were the target???? It really looked like they were discrediting and killing me… Had he said something like: they were trying to kill you to get to me, it would even have been better. It would have implied I was at least an important cog in the wheel (without me, he would have been vulnerable, etc).

Even with Kormir (the ultimate show stealer as she stole my godhood!), I felt I was important. I stopped Abaddon in its tracks (and then Kormir took that last step that I should have been able to take, but that’s another story).

GUH. I can’t read this yet. I just got to and am currently leveling to partake in the Battle at Fort Trinity.

Must.

Resist.

Reading.

T_T

I won’t read the whole thread but I hate Trahearne as well so I figured I would post why.

The reason I hate him, is because of his voice over. It’s extremely monotone; he’s suppose to be a plant but he sounds like a robot. And emotionless robot. The dialogues lacks a bit in personality too but the voice over just kills it completely.
I also don’t like his look. As a main character in the story line, I feel he’s not memorable enough.
I do think that if he had a better voice over, with more emotion behind it, he could have made a much better character to interact with.

I have a bad feeling that this is going to have a “Lori effect” for me.

Meaning that, while I was still catching up on The Walking Dead, people on Facebook and such kept saying how much they hate Lori and wished she would die. And once I finished the first half of season three, I still didn’t understand.

I have the same feeling so far about this Trahearne business. People hating on him left and right, and I’m personally really enjoying him in-game. He’s not an iron-fisted general or anything like that, but I don’t see why that’s a problem.

I guess I’ll have to “wait and see” like I did with Lori, but I’m not holding my breath that you people are being entirely rational about this whole thing. :V

Trahearne is a mixed bag for me, but overall I don’t hate him. I rather pity him.
I’ll see if this can be expanded on clearly.
In nearly every chapter or expansion to Guild Wars (EOTN being a slight exception) every one of them had a hero proxy. That’s okay, because it allows dialogue and conversations to go smoother. However the main differences between the earlier hero proxies and Salad Tongs—er I mean Trahearne is they had personalities I can remember.

GW Prophecies
Rurik: He cared about his people, defied his father, and went to Kryta because Ascalon was in trouble.
Yes he went Kilroy Stonekin in stupidity at times, but you could see he was a passionate leader.
We eventually had to have an old Yeller moment and put him down after being turned into the Vizier’s champion.

GW Factions
Mhenlo: A contemplative monk henchman who is established in the lore earlier, a member of the main GW cast.
He has a firey Elementalist girlfriend who is jealous of his friendships with other women in Cantha.
Apparently he was a ladies man of sorts back there and was returning to Cantha upon request by Master Togo

Master Togo: This guy was what I wanted instead of Treehurt. He established a friendship with the Tengu, a teacher to students, and overall a well rounded individual as NPCs go. Yes he had a somewhat annoying voice, but his story was so much more entertaining. I liked him, but he had a slight cheat which I’ll get to later.

GW Nightfall

Kormir: No one likes you dear, but at least you trained the Sunspear recruits and suffered some pain before taking over the godhood mantle…which I should have taken but I’m putting that behind me.
She was a warrior, a leader, and believed in the principles of the Sunspears. She failed a mission and was presumed dead only to pull a John Sheridan (Babylon 5) and come back to help lead, or just sit in the background, and help us to the end.

Oh dear Six Gods Kormir is a better hero proxy than Cabbage Patch man, but I must move on to the odd duck of this series.

More to come in part two of my post

Part 2:
GW Eye of the North
Here we don’t just have 1 or 2 but a whole team!

Gwen: She came back, she was also shown in the ads, and it even hinted she was back when you think of the title acronym (GW:EotN). She hates the Charr, she’s filled with anger, and eventually she stops fearing them. Yeah she was a little annoying but I did like how this company took someone we thought was dead and bring them back to show that sometimes war is a huge kitten in the kitten (no real curses there, I just wanted to type kitten).
I liked her development, for the most part, and she too has a little cheat I’ll get to later.

Jora: Our first Norn and by the Gods she left an impression. She was powerful, pretty, and needed help killing her brother who is now corrupted…wait what?! She was able to put aside her pain of killing a family member to balance out the world and gain forgiveness by the Bear Spirit. Hers was a story of redemption and blood washing blood. She was willing to stoop to asking humans for help, which for a Norn was a hurdle considering how proud they are.

Ogden Stonehealer: He was the scholar of our group, what Trahearne tries to be, but he was established better in the short time I played this game. He had an empathy with his kin that was also a curse if you think about it. This dwarf was determined to see the Destroyers put away for good and believed in the Great Dwarf feverently.

Vekk: The thinker, the grouch, and yet my favorite out of this group with Pyre being close second. He was a brilliant mind and able to conjure up answers to any problem if pushed. We also see a touching moment when Gadd, his father, dies and Vekk actually does seem to have feelings. This was a good moment for Arenanet to do considering this was also the first time we’ve ever seen Asura.

Pyre Fierceshot: The outcast, the warrior poet (of sorts), and the Teal’c of the group. This was the first Charr we ever encountered and befriended who didn’t like his own bretheren. He showed us that some Charr don’t need gods nor do they want them. In some twisted way he mentored Gwen, showing some pride when she said “I hate you but I no longer fear you.” Honestly when I heard that we could play Charr in GW2 I thought of this guy and yelled out “Heck yeah! I’m kicking some butt!”

The cheats and my confession
Now earlier in Togo and Gwen I said they had cheats and they did. The Bonus mission packs helped us learn more about these guys than most other hero proxies. That does cloud my judgement a bit when comparing to Trahearne. We see moments that were history unfold and overall that was enjoyable.

So with that long winded assessemnt these were the previous hero proxies and you see something in common with them: they were with us from nearly the beginning.

Now I do have a Sylvari character and I do know that he shows up more there than the other races, so I’m basing most of my postings on my Human Guardian because he was my first character.

More to come in part 3

The expectations, the trailers, and the Destiny’s Edge
This is where I pity Trahearne, because outside a few mentions in the game I never remembered him being hyped up. Who was hyped up? The guild Destiny’s Edge. You have them in the trailers, you had them discussed in various videos and behind the scenes stuff, and you even have a book about them!
That’s where my expectations were kepted for this game’s plot.
I wanted to see the Edge be rebuilt and then we stick it to the Elder Dragons!
Yes I know you can see THAT story in the story missions for the Dungeons, but that’s a tease!
Why not flip it around? Make the main story based on your Edge mentor and have Salad boy play Indiana Jones in the Dungeons looking for something to use against Orr? That way when he shows up at the end and rejuvinates it his Wild Hunt was established and finished, but he wasn’t put completely into the spotlight?

This NPC, this leafy guy, has to compete with five freaking awesome characters you propped up and somehow he’s supposed to do it? No, not going to happen with me. I was teased by the concept of races grouping together on EoTN and I was salivating for it in GW2. Take back the salad, I want the real meat of the story on my plate!

Now on reflection of his character do I hate him? No, but I still pity how he was supposed to be this hero proxy when in reality he shouldn’t have been. Would he be a decent secondary character like Soulkeeper or Fogel? Yeah and in fact that’s how I treated him.

The Future of Trahearne
If he is used for future purposes keep him in Orr. Don’t kill him, don’t wound him horribly, but rather have him stay with Orr and be a developing focus there so maybe he can gain more of a personality instead of being just a loaded weapon to kill Risen. He served a purpose, but didn’t really match or exceed the expectations that I had. (what expectations? I barely knew who he was!)

I have more thoughts on the matter, but this was the most I could condense everything.

post concluded, the forum system couldn’t handle ramble of my magnitude

Arcalithe.6057:

I guess I’ll have to “wait and see” like I did with Lori, but I’m not holding my breath that you people are being entirely rational about this whole thing. :V

Believe it or not, it’s possible to have differences of opinion without either side being irrational. That’s the whole point of an opinion as opposed to a fact.

CC Meinke.2749:

This thread is meant to collect feedback regarding Trahearne and includes spoilers.

Reading the first page reminded me of this article: http://nightmaremode.net/2012/06/why-blizzards-surrogate-ruins-diablo-3-19642/

…You get the feeling from both that they’re here because one of the writers thought they were really cool and compelling and demanded they exist in this universe. And they are both the worst kind of character: the one without flaw, the one who exists solely to remind you,The Coolest Person in the Universe, that you aren’t so great.

both = Leah in Diablo 3 and Kai Leng in Mass Effect 3

Who the hell is this Treehenry clown anyways ? And why the hell are they forcing us to listen to his whining crap in every cutscene ?

This story is supposed to be about the Player. Not some whiny fruit-face with a personality about as interesting as watching paint dry.

I want Anet to pull off a Blizzard and make him a killable boss in a dungeon in the next patch. Serves him right for having to babysit his whiny kitten through most of the story quests.

Anakita Snakecharm.4360:

Arcalithe.6057:

I guess I’ll have to “wait and see” like I did with Lori, but I’m not holding my breath that you people are being entirely rational about this whole thing. :V

Believe it or not, it’s possible to have differences of opinion without either side being irrational. That’s the whole point of an opinion as opposed to a fact.

But my opinion IS that you guys are being irrational (until proven otherwise in-game). I don’t see the problem here. :V

Kashrlyyk.5364:

CC Meinke.2749:

This thread is meant to collect feedback regarding Trahearne and includes spoilers.

Reading the first page reminded me of this article: http://nightmaremode.net/2012/06/why-blizzards-surrogate-ruins-diablo-3-19642/

…You get the feeling from both that they’re here because one of the writers thought they were really cool and compelling and demanded they exist in this universe. And they are both the worst kind of character: the one without flaw, the one who exists solely to remind you,The Coolest Person in the Universe, that you aren’t so great.

both = Leah in Diablo 3 and Kai Leng in Mass Effect 3

I don’t think Leah in Diablo 3 and Kai Leng are equivalent. Leah is the means by which the plot revolves and allows the developer to make awesome cinematics whereas Kai Leng is your surrogate archnemesis who operates using the strongest plot armor that really does nothing more than make one plot hole after another. Kai Leng denies the player the ability to make meaningful choices within the game whereas Leah and her struggle is the plot itself.

In that instance Leah is similar to Trahearne insofar as Trahearne is what the plot comes to revolve around but dissimilar in that the plot of the personal story revolves around the player character up until you get back from Claw Island. Leah however is always the focus of Diablo 3’s plot so there isn’t really a plot hole so much as player dissapointment.

And Trahearne really does create a huge plot hole. Especially if your character is a Sylvari whose Wyld Hunt was to kill the dragons. If you are a Sylvari then you are the one who reclaimed and wielded Caladbholg, you are the one whose Wyld Hunt was slaying the Dragons and you are the Sylvari representative to the 3 orders. So why exactly does the Mother Tree give Trahearne, a necromancer, Caladbholg and not my character who is a Sylvari Guardian specialized in using Great Swords, the one who first retrieved and then used the sword? As a necromancer, Trahearne is specialized in using necromantic arts that are antithetical to the Mother’s Trees powers of life and nature which were encapsulated in the sword. Trahearne doesn’t even wear armor appropriate for fighting in melee range as necessitated by wielding a sword. He uses magic that is based on reanimating dead corpses against the will of nature. In no way does he have experience using great swords nor does he have armor appropriate for fighting enemies toe to toe.

And why does Trahearne become the Leader of the Pact and not my character? There was no sufficient justification for this plot twist when all the signs necessitated making my character the leader. While I do not argue that the story could have been written around my character not being the leader (and was) my argument is that this decision just doesn’t make any sense given the player’s expectations and desires.

Making Trahearne the wielder of Caladbholg and leader of the Pact would be like if Arthur pulled Excalibur out of the stone, handed it to Kay and then went on to live an unremarkable life as a stablehand. Actually that is exactly what happened.

Arcalithe.6057:

But my opinion IS that you guys are being irrational (until proven otherwise in-game). I don’t see the problem here. :V

You’re missing my point.

This is thread about whether we like Trahearne. That’s a preference. A preference can’t be proven one way or the other – it’s a matter of personal taste.

Actually playing through the storyline will indeed give you an opinion on whether or not you like Trahearne. It won’t give you an opinion about whether or not I like Trahearne unless you find some way to hijack my brain. There’s a difference.

It’s possible to feel differently about the same thing without either party being objectively wrong. That’s the point I’m trying to make.

Taste is just taste; it’s not something you can go disprove.

Anakita Snakecharm.4360:

Arcalithe.6057:

But my opinion IS that you guys are being irrational (until proven otherwise in-game). I don’t see the problem here. :V

You’re missing my point.

I think you’re missing mine. :V

My opinion is that, so far (with maybe two story missions left to go), I like Trahearne, and that you guys are being irrational about him. I intended “proven otherwise” to be taken as “I’ll admit I was naive” if I turn out to hate his guts soon, not that preference can be “proven”.

I don’t expect an internet debate like this to end, since neither side ever seems willing to end it, so I’m not sure why I’m still replying. :V

Arcalithe.6057:

Anakita Snakecharm.4360:

Arcalithe.6057:

But my opinion IS that you guys are being irrational (until proven otherwise in-game). I don’t see the problem here. :V

You’re missing my point.

I think you’re missing mine. :V

My opinion is that, so far (with maybe two story missions left to go), I like Trahearne, and that you guys are being irrational about him. I intended “proven otherwise” to be taken as “I’ll admit I was naive” if I turn out to hate his guts soon, not that preference can be “proven”.

:V

Considering that you provided no evidence in support of your assertions and actually resorted to an ad hominen attack on your opponents by saying that they must be “irrational” for taking the position they chose, and then tried to beat a hasty retreat by using the “I don’t expect an internet debate like this to end, since neither side ever seems willing to end it, so I’m not sure why I’m still replying,” you have all but affirmed that your position is untenable and that you have lost the debate.

Please don’t judge me, if I haven’t read all the posts – Im just here, because I think that the way, Trahearne feels of it self, when you are at the end of the personal story. He seems to be even disappointed, that his mission is now over.

You have to understand the Sylvari, to be not disappointend about Trahearne, not joining destiny’s edge at the fight against Zeithan. It’s just not his wyld hunt.
As soon as he is done with it, he asks himself, what his point of being is now.

Where there is a lack of self esteem, there is a possiblity of getting turned into a foe by some upcoming Elder Dragon.

I like Trahearne. He pretty much represents the Sylvari, and there way of becoming part of the upcoming united Tyria.

Atlas.9704:

Gwen: She came back, she was also shown in the ads, and it even hinted she was back when you think of the title acronym (GW:EotN). She hates the Charr, she’s filled with anger, and eventually she stops fearing them. Yeah she was a little annoying but I did like how this company took someone we thought was dead and bring them back to show that sometimes war is a huge kitten in the kitten (no real curses there, I just wanted to type kitten).
I liked her development, for the most part, and she too has a little cheat I’ll get to later.

I pretty much agree on the whole thing except this. For me Gwen is worse than Trahearne, much worse than Trahearne could ever hope to be. She is by far one my most dispised fictional characters.
Not only did she annoy me in Prophecies, no she came back for EotN, even more annyoing than ever. For me, she stands for everything I disliked about Ascalon. Yes I started playing GW1 with Prophecies, I saw the destruction of the land by the Charr. But unlike 99% of the players, I had no emotional attachment to the country. I always prefered the much more unique Kryta (which is sadly ascalonified in GW2). I even liked the Charr more than the Ascalonians.
I did not care what happened to Ascalon after I was gone, since from my point of view, they were just so generic. And then came Gwen, never shutting up about the Charr and how her pain and loss was worse than anyones. I think Kieran Thackeray phrased it well, when he said that all of them suffered.

But you know what, I was annoyed by Gwen, but I did not hate her… yet. It wasn’t until I read Ghost of Ascalon that I developed a burning hatred for that witch, that can never be extinguished. In that book, I think it’s either Riona or Dougal who said it, it is mentioned that Gwen is the greatest hero of humanity.
Wham! What a lie! What a freaking lie! Gwen did nothing! Nothing, that is even remotely close to what my character did. Or Togo, or Kormir or 50% of the human NPCs in GW1. Not only did Gwen just take a big steaming pile of kitten on my legacy, no she also sealed all hope that I will get a Kryta in GW2. Instead I get Ascalon 2.0. Because that’s the only thing most krytans seem to care about, what Ascalon did in the past. Heck, they even look more like ascalonians than krytans.
But back to Gwen. You think Trahearne stealing the show in your personal story is bad? How about Gwen stealing everything you did in 4 campaigns and various smaller add-ons from you? I think this is much worse. I’d say, we dig up that hag from her grave and hack her into pieces, burn those pieces and erase her name from history. She does not deserve to have a legacy.

Ellisande.5218:

Arcalithe.6057:

Anakita Snakecharm.4360:

Arcalithe.6057:

But my opinion IS that you guys are being irrational (until proven otherwise in-game). I don’t see the problem here. :V

You’re missing my point.

I think you’re missing mine. :V

My opinion is that, so far (with maybe two story missions left to go), I like Trahearne, and that you guys are being irrational about him. I intended “proven otherwise” to be taken as “I’ll admit I was naive” if I turn out to hate his guts soon, not that preference can be “proven”.

:V

Considering that you provided no evidence in support of your assertions and actually resorted to an ad hominen attack on your opponents by saying that they must be “irrational” for taking the position they chose, and then tried to beat a hasty retreat by using the “I don’t expect an internet debate like this to end, since neither side ever seems willing to end it, so I’m not sure why I’m still replying,” you have all but affirmed that your position is untenable and that you have lost the debate.

Wait, what? I haven’t called her irrational in any way for her argument. My opinion on this Trahearne issue is that people are being irrational about their hate for him, since I don’t see what people are talking about. “Irrational” is not a bad term in this sense. It’s just my opinion that I feel like people are overreacting to him. :V Plus, how can I give proof of my personal opinion? Guess I can try.

So far it seems that he’s just been the underdog since he was introduced into the story. He hasn’t had much time to shine since it was relatively late into the story when he came in, and he’s handled himself well up to this point (which, like I said, is with maybe two missions left in the personal story for me). I feel like he’s doing the best he can, for being a scholar thrown (willingly, yes) into the position of Marshal for the combined armies of The Pact. I just think people are being too hard on him as a character. Sure, the voice acting can be iffy, but if that’s what annoys some people about him, I’d say that’s a rather trivial point to debate. Just turn off the sound and imagine the lines in Morgan Freeman’s voice, for all it matters. :P

I realize that that’s not even a reason most people give, but I have heard it said.

I’m just insulted that you think I was calling people irrational out of spite. :c I just feel that they’re overreacting to Trahearne, not calling them irrational folks in general. :c I’ve had a good time playing with the people in this game, much more so than any other MMO I’ve played thus far. The community is healthy and still gets along quite nicely! We all have our opinions, but that doesn’t keep me from getting to know someone in my guild or over map chat or something.

Sorry that I said anything. I just wanted to state my opinion. :c