Guild Wars 2

Extra Details
As i have already been discussing my solution with players from all areas of the game, several questions have already been raised. Here are a few of them along with my responses:

Q: Wouldn’t more dailies give players the ability to catch up to those on the leader boards?

A: I do not believe this to be true. For those of us at the top of the leader board, we are doing all the dailies anyway. If there are 5 options of 19 options, we do them all. If anything the people who do not have the majority of the “permanent” achievements done are going to have an even harder time. They will need to focus more of there time on dailies and will not have as much freedom as we had to play the rest of the game.

Q: Shouldn’t people have the option to go for more achievement points if they want to?

A: This is only my opinion, but I think it should be less about how many daily achievements you individually complete. If you truly want to get those extra achievement points, choosing to log in each day to do your daily should be where you decide to go for achievements. I think the completion of the daily, getting the daily chest, should be the focus.

Q: How does this help people catch up to the people on the leader boards?

A: Sadly it does not. To be honest, if you want to be on an achievement board, in just about any game, you need to decide to do so early on in the games release. With the way Guild Wars 2 uses dailies, monthlies, and limited time content, there really is no catching up. Some have suggested that more dailies would cause those at the top to grow bored and slow down, maybe even quit. If this is how you are looking to get ahead, I’m afraid you are driven by the wrong reasons.

Q: Are you just looking to make it easier to stay at the top?

A: I can see how this can be taken in that way, but no, that is not my reason behind this. I love this game, but the daily grind is not where I expected the achievement hunt to go. It is possible that I am just getting burnt out, in which case I will make the hard decision to step away. Before this is to happen, i really just want to know I fought for the game I love.

Closing
If you see any reason this method will not work, please let me know. I will gladly debate back and forth to find the best solution. I am looking for a solution to make as many people happy as possible, and will change details to my solution, or further explain things as needed.

If you are not someone who cares about any of this, or this in no way affects your gaming, please do not come in here with negative comments. We, or at least I, am looking to keep my enjoyment of the game. I know some will not understand, and that is ok, but please don’t disregard how others play the game.

We are all playing the same game, some of us play a little differently, but we all share the same passion.

I agree with you and support a fixed number of achievement points awarded per daily chest instead of per amounts of dailies completed.

If you want to stay at top you need to invest the time If it’s not worth for you, just do what you want and look at other people passing you.

Shirk.6421:

If you want to stay at top you need to invest the time If it’s not worth for you, just do what you want and look at other people passing you.

Are you or do you know anyone who enjoys spending 2+ hours grinding out daily achievements each day? I’m struggling to find anyone who says they love this part of the game.

Are you suggesting that without dailies taking 2+ hours each day, that those of us at the top, are not investing the time? Is there a specific amount of time for dailies that is require for us to be considered investing in this?

Nobody is forced to. If you want something special you have to invest something. I know people doing all dailys everyday – most of them don’ even need 2 hours. Some enjoy it, others make it for the sake of the points. If you don’t want to grind 2+ hours a day – simply don’t.

Shirk.6421:

Nobody is forced to. If you want something special you have to invest something. I know people doing all dailys everyday – most of them don’ even need 2 hours. Some enjoy it, others make it for the sake of the points. If you don’t want to grind 2+ hours a day – simply don’t.

You are kind of avoiding my question there. These people doing the dailies each day everyday would have to be some of the highest ranking people on the leader boards. I have made sure to contact several people on there before making this thread. Would you mind telling one of the people you know to take a look at the thread, or message me their name? I would love to get their opinion and see where they are coming from.

isn’t the problem more yours rather then the daily system…..you want to complete them so you’re responsible for your own actions, asking to make them easier defeats the whole point of them.

sorudo.9054:

isn’t the problem more yours rather then the daily system…..you want to complete them so you’re responsible for your own actions, asking to make them easier defeats the whole point of them.

I believe I have addressed this in my comments above. What I would like to ask is why do you feel the dailies, and the amount of time it takes to do them, should determine the level of difficulty? I’m not saying the achievement hunt as a whole should be easier. I’m saying the focus strictly on dailies is not the path to go down. For me, dailies should be a bonus for logging in each day, not the focus.

By pointing out that I need to “invest” time in dailies, or removing them would make it easier, you are actually proving the point I have been trying to make. You are saying they aren’t needed, but then you are saying they are need if I am to work hard or invest. So do you feel the focus should be on dailies, extra dailies, and what is your reasoning for this?

For the record, I am looking for anyone and everyone’s opinion. Just make sure you have reasons behind what you say, as I will debate back and forth to find the best answer. Please try to keep things positive though.

Ultimately if the conclusion to this is that I am just burnt out and everyone is just fine with the daily grind increasing, so be it, I will move on. I am however going to fight for what I love, at least to say I gave it my all.

only you decide if it’s something needed, not the community around you, not Anet, just you.
if you want to invest time in it, do so but don’t drag someone else with your own preference.
i do think that dailies should truly be separated between PvP and PvE dailies so we don’t see the mist in the list but that’s all i want, nothing more.

Support (I am TOP 100 EU)

Most valid reason:

Just because YOU don’t want to put this kind of effort into it doesn’t mean OTHER PLAYERS shouldn’t be allowed to.

Support. (Top 40 NA)

Do I think there are to many ap for each day? Of course I do. I thought that 8 months ago. A problem some may have with the proposed changes is now that some have reaped the benefits of the current laborious grind. They are requesting changes. Denying others of exactly what they have done to get where they are.

It seems some at the top are accusing those lower on the boards of wanting to catch up. And some lower are accusing those higher than them of not wanting them to catch up. However I believe (for me anyway) there are many that the amount of achievements have nothing to do with the board but with personal satisfaction. I feel it is this group of people that like the current state. For them the amount they acquire is entirely their choosing, and when changes suggested will affect the way they play is where resistance comes in. Finding a way to satisfy this group of people I think will greatly benefit your cause.

If changes made do not deny others the ability to play the game as their predecessors, then by all means Anet should make the change. Any change that would benefit the entire community, I could not see being unwelcomed.

Shirk.6421:

Most valid reason:

Just because YOU don’t want to put this kind of effort into it doesn’t mean OTHER PLAYERS shouldn’t be allowed to.

Still avoiding my questions, so I will ask again. Is the time spent doing dailies, which once took only 20-30min, the only part of achievement hunting that you consider effort?

When pvpers wanted a soloQ due to being destroyed by teams in teamQ was this simply “their problem”? Should they not have raised this as a concern?

The point isn’t to not “allow” other players to do this. The point is to steer the achievement hunt in a slightly different direction. If you can, please take the time to consider all aspects of our request. You seem to be stuck on one point that you can not defend very well.

danielrjones.8759:

Do I think there are to many ap for each day? Of course I do. I thought that 8 months ago. A problem some may have with the proposed changes is now that some have reaped the benefits of the current laborious grind. They are requesting changes. Denying others of exactly what they have done to get where they are.

It seems some at the top are accusing those lower on the boards of wanting to catch up. And some lower are accusing those higher than them of not wanting them to catch up. However I believe (for me anyway) there are many that the amount of achievements have nothing to do with the board but with personal satisfaction. I feel it is this group of people that like the current state. For them the amount they acquire is entirely their choosing, and when changes suggested will affect the way they play is where resistance comes in. Finding a way to satisfy this group of people I think will greatly benefit your cause.

If changes made do not deny others the ability to play the game as their predecessors, then by all means Anet should make the change. Any change that would benefit the entire community, I could not see being unwelcomed.

Just to be clear, my suggestion isn’t to limit the amount of achievement points someone cap get each day. It is simply to move that total into the daily chest rather than for each achievement. This should actually help the more casual players achieve more points without feeling they need to change the way they play. Basically, they will notice more rewards for their play, not less.

As far as removing the option to get more points, I did go a little into detail about this in my post. Basically I feel the stage you should chose at is logging in to do your daily chest. I know people have gotten use to the idea that there are extra dailies, but does it need to remain that way? I’m trying to limit people as little as possible.

(Good points btw)

Something I would like to bring up is that dailies did not always take as much time. When we started achievement hunting, they took 20min. Later on they took 30-60min. These days depending on which ones are active, it can take 2+ hours.

There seem to be some people focusing too much on the “lack of effort” for suggesting change to the 2+ hours time spent. Most of these people are not putting in this “effort” themselves, but are ok with suggesting it is perfectly fine. There is so much more to the achievement hunt than just the time we spend doing dailies. please stop thinking that dailies are directly connected to the efforts we put in.

So let me get this straight, you want all of the people who could care less about ap to have to do more to get the daily chest? The only reason I even do the daily at all is for the laurels. The fact that you feel compelled to do every last daily is your problem not mine.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

So let me get this straight, you want all of the people who could care less about ap to have to do more to get the daily chest? The only reason I even do the daily at all is for the laurels. The fact that you feel compelled to do every last daily is your problem not mine.

I’m sorry sir, you did not “get this straight”.

Ewon.5903:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

So let me get this straight, you want all of the people who could care less about ap to have to do more to get the daily chest? The only reason I even do the daily at all is for the laurels. The fact that you feel compelled to do every last daily is your problem not mine.

I’m sorry sir, you did not “get this straight”.

“I think the number should be increased to 8-10 without causing too much problem” No I’m pretty sure I got what you are saying.

“I think the number could be increased to 8-10 without causing too much problem, but I don’t want to increase the time it would take a casual player.”

Please reread my full comment which I have kindly quoted in it’s entirety above.

Ewon.5903:

“I think the number could be increased to 8-10 without causing too much problem, but I don’t want to increase the time it would take a casual player.”

Please reread my full comment which I have kindly quoted in it’s entirety above.

I am not casual at all but I spend all of my time in WvW. Please explain to me how you are going to increase the number of dailies I have to do to get laurels but not the time or having to go to PvE which I despise.

“For this solution to work, on the PvE side, the number of dailies that need to be completed may need to be looked at. Would five dailies still be the correct about to get the chest if it now contains say 10-20 achievement points? I think the number could be increased to 8-10 without causing too much problem, but I don;t want to increase the time it would take a casual player.”

This is merely just a thought for discussion. Would that number need to be raised if people are getting more for less? Like I said, I don’t want to increase the time it would take for the more casual player. Casual in this case could strictly mean a casual achievement hunter or someone who doesn’t focus on dailies.

@OP:

The only thing I understand in this topic is:

“I’m top tier with my AP, but I don’t want to spend so much time anymore but nobody should be allowed to get more AP than I have”

Please give me a concrete answer in 1 sentence with a valid reason why it should be changed the way you want it to.

It’s like wanting to remove the acquisition of ascended weapons after I finally got mine.

Shirk.6421:

@OP:

The only thing I understand in this topic is:

“I’m top tier with my AP, but I don’t want to spend so much time anymore but nobody should be allowed to get more AP than I have”

Please give me a concrete answer in 1 sentence with a valid reason why it should be changed the way you want it to.

It’s like wanting to remove the acquisition of ascended weapons after I finally got mine.

I’m sorry you feel that way

Shirk.6421:

@OP:

The only thing I understand in this topic is:

“I’m top tier with my AP, but I don’t want to spend so much time anymore but nobody should be allowed to get more AP than I have”

Please give me a concrete answer in 1 sentence with a valid reason why it should be changed the way you want it to.

It’s like wanting to remove the acquisition of ascended weapons after I finally got mine.

It’s really got nothing to do with anything you just posted. It’s nothing like removing ascended weapons. If you had to spend 2hrs+ every day, just to keep your ascended weapon(your example), wouldn’t you rather they tone down that surprising chunk of time?

I know it’s hard to read… But there is a difference between removing something and removing the acquisition.

To your second point:

Nobody loses the AP, not even the OP. But other people can still get more. So when I got my ascended weapons now and ANet would release even better weapons than this, I -
1.) Keep my ascended weapons and run around with this now “inferior” weapons or
2.) Invest more time into getting the now better weapons than I invested for the ascended.

You’re missing out on the group of people between the every-point-leaderboard types and the casuals who just want the laurel.

I happen to be someone that enjoys achievements without needing them all. I had enough to get a whole bunch of chests when the new system came in, from before leaderboards. Now I adore opening that big ol’ chest every 500 points. I’ve completed a lot of the static achieves and have others in reserve for when a few more points will get me to the shiny present. So I like that there are more dailies than I need in a day — it gives me the option of doing one or two more to round off my AP number, or make that last couple of points to the 500 mark.

As I read your system, you’re asking to cap the AP from dailies, albeit at higher than the five points minimum current to get the laurel. You’re also asking to defer any reward until one’s put in all the time needed to reach the daily chest amount. So a player could do all but one point’s worth, have to leave, get past reset, and get -none- of the points they did the tasks for (or not have to leave, but get caught by reset).

I don’t give a fig about leaderboards, I admit. I like having more out there to do than can be done, it makes the game feel bigger. I certainly don’t want to lose the flexibility the current system offers so that completionists can feel they “finished.” I do sympathize with the pressure these players feel. But I don’t think everyone in the world should be limited to only sugar cookies and chocolate chip cookies so a few people can claim they’ve tasted every flavor of cookie there is without having to gorge themselves.

Ewon.5903:

“For this solution to work, on the PvE side, the number of dailies that need to be completed may need to be looked at. Would five dailies still be the correct about to get the chest if it now contains say 10-20 achievement points? I think the number could be increased to 8-10 without causing too much problem, but I don;t want to increase the time it would take a casual player.”

This is merely just a thought for discussion. Would that number need to be raised if people are getting more for less? Like I said, I don’t want to increase the time it would take for the more casual player. Casual in this case could strictly mean a casual achievement hunter or someone who doesn’t focus on dailies.

You never answered my question.

Donari.5237:

You’re missing out on the group of people between the every-point-leaderboard types and the casuals who just want the laurel.

If you just want the laurel, this change should be unnoticed by you. You still just do your same options and get the laurel. I’m not suggesting any change here.

Donari.5237:

As I read your system, you’re asking to cap the AP from dailies, albeit at higher than the five points minimum current to get the laurel. You’re also asking to defer any reward until one’s put in all the time needed to reach the daily chest amount. So a player could do all but one point’s worth, have to leave, get past reset, and get -none- of the points they did the tasks for (or not have to leave, but get caught by reset).

I will admit, this is not a point I had considered. For me achieving 5/5 for the daily chest has never been a challenge so I do not currently have a solution here. People who would be missing out due to only doing 4 or less dailies with my suggestion would actually be missing out on even more (say 15) achievement points with the current system there is now.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Ewon.5903:

“For this solution to work, on the PvE side, the number of dailies that need to be completed may need to be looked at. Would five dailies still be the correct about to get the chest if it now contains say 10-20 achievement points? I think the number could be increased to 8-10 without causing too much problem, but I don;t want to increase the time it would take a casual player.”

This is merely just a thought for discussion. Would that number need to be raised if people are getting more for less? Like I said, I don’t want to increase the time it would take for the more casual player. Casual in this case could strictly mean a casual achievement hunter or someone who doesn’t focus on dailies.

You never answered my question.

I’m not suggesting you need to do more dailies. I can remove this line if it is too confusing. I merely stating that if the rewards change, the require may need to as well. I’m not saying I want them to change, I’m not saying they should change, I’m just trying to be fair.

EDIT: I have removed that section form the main post as I am not looking to add more work to those going for laurels or the other daily rewards. Now that this part has been removed, are you fine with the suggestion?

For people who are collecting AP to get the chests, or for a feeling of personal accomplishment, I feel the current system where you can get a variable amount of AP each day depending on how many of the dailies you do is a good system. I think making it an all-or-nothing deal would make this group noticeably worse off.

If you feel that those competing on the leaderboards shouldn’t have to complete so many dailies to maintain their positions, maybe the leaderboards just shouldn’t count AP from dailies at all? The UI already lists a breakdown of AP into daily/monthly/permanent so excluding one of those from the leaderboard calculations would probably not be difficult to implement.

I personally think that having an AP leaderboard at all is kind of dumb (I feel most achievements primarily measure how long you play, rather than how well), so it’s difficult for me to guess how the people who care about the current leaderboard would feel about a change like that.

I agree with the idea behind the OP, but I think the dailies should just be capped at 5AP per day, no matter which five (or more) dailies you complete. If you get less, you get 1AP per daily that you completed.

To me, that seems fair to everyone, and it takes the dailies back to the point where they aren’t a grind.

Vick.6805:

I agree with the idea behind the OP, but I think the dailies should just be capped at 5AP per day, no matter which five (or more) dailies you complete. If you get less, you get 1AP per daily that you completed.

To me, that seems fair to everyone, and it takes the dailies back to the point where they aren’t a grind.

This could work as well, I just didn’t want to reduce the number of AP other players were getting. i am perfectly fine with only getting 5 from dailies, but I know some will argue against this.

I’m a super casual player. I usually get my daily achievement chest with normal casual game play. That said, now that there are achievement point reward chest capping the daily is a bad idea. Yes, you are in the leader boards and it is in your best interest to limit the amount of achievement points that can be earned per day to maintain your status.

For me, the casual player I will take every achievement point I can get should I earn them through my daily play. Why? Because I need them for the next reward chest, not for some leader board thing. If I am playing along, get my daily 5 done, but continue to play and happen to do more on the list I deserve those points.

It isn’t my fault that you are competing on a leader board and want some daily cap so you will have to spend less time trying to stay on top. If that is so important to you then you do all the dailies you can. Don’t cap me just to make it less of a burden on you.

I agree with the problems presented in the thread, but not the solutions. I dislike the idea of making this game more “casual friendly.” I’m actually very sick of seemingly ALL mmorpgs catering to the casual gamers. It makes it significantly more difficult to find meaning behind any ingame activities and competition.

What I would instead like to see is this whole official ‘daily reset’ crap totally scrapped and have everything re-acquirable 24 hours beyond the point that you completed something. As for dailies, you’d have the same amount of options but the list would simply refresh after the 24 hours pass since you last completed 5 of them.

Living World achievements would obviously need to remain the same.

JustTrogdor.7892:

I’m a super casual player. I usually get my daily achievement chest with normal casual game play. That said, now that there are achievement point reward chest capping the daily is a bad idea. Yes, you are in the leader boards and it is in your best interest to limit the amount of achievement points that can be earned per day to maintain your status.

For me, the casual player I will take every achievement point I can get should I earn them through my daily play. Why? Because I need them for the next reward chest, not for some leader board thing. If I am playing along, get my daily 5 done, but continue to play and happen to do more on the list I deserve those points.

It isn’t my fault that you are competing on a leader board and want some daily cap so you will have to spend less time trying to stay on top. If that is so important to you then you do all the dailies you can. Don’t cap me just to make it less of a burden on you.

I’m not trying to cap you. My suggest was just moving when you receive the reward. if anything this was going to getting you more AP.

Does everyone really think this is just about staying on the top of the board? i’m trying to make this better for all of you. I’ve been trying to remove myself from the equation as much as possible. I don’t know what more I can do to make people realize this isn’t about making sure no one can pass me. To be honest, you can pass me anyway. There is no catching up, the current method, my suggestion, none. So as far as making it so no one can catch me, that is already achieved. As long as I stick with this, there is no catching me. I do put int eh effort, I just don;t think dailies are where all of that effort should be.

I’m simply running out of things to say…

Ewon.5903:

Does everyone really think this is just about staying on the top of the board? .

Yes..

Ewon.5903:

If you miss out on your dailies, you end up missing out on points you can no longer acquire. From a leader board perspective, you are going to be driven to get every possible point that is made available. .

Ewon.5903:

i’m trying to make this better for all of you.

That’s obviously not true: your suggestion is self-admittedly aimed at reducing the grind necessary to stay at the top of the leaderboards. I believe you when you say you’re not worried about newbies catching you, and I don’t think you’re trying to hurt anyone, but the entire thrust of your suggestion is aimed to benefit a small class of people who are competing on the AP leaderboards and I don’t see how it could possibly be an improvement for anyone else. Even if some people tangentially end up getting more AP under this system, that’s not a virtue; the devs can change the rate of earning AP to anything they want without making any changes whatsoever to the underlying system.

Your proposed change is possibly good for: people who care about getting the theoretical maximum AP. That’s it. That’s the only group that gets a more enjoyable game if we take away the small amount of extra AP you can earn for completing extra dailies after earning your chest (with, or without, rolling it into the daily chest). Your potential beneficiaries consist of people who are willing to put in multiple hours per day, every day, for over a year, just to maintain their position on the leaderboard—and maybe a couple ultra hardcore grinders who just have to have the theoretical maximum for its own sake.

For everyone else, the best-case scenario is that some development resources are used up making a change that we feel neutrally about. That doesn’t automatically mean your idea shouldn’t be done, but arguing that it’s good for everyone is either naive or disingenuous on your part.

Ewon.5903:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Ewon.5903:

“For this solution to work, on the PvE side, the number of dailies that need to be completed may need to be looked at. Would five dailies still be the correct about to get the chest if it now contains say 10-20 achievement points? I think the number could be increased to 8-10 without causing too much problem, but I don;t want to increase the time it would take a casual player.”

This is merely just a thought for discussion. Would that number need to be raised if people are getting more for less? Like I said, I don’t want to increase the time it would take for the more casual player. Casual in this case could strictly mean a casual achievement hunter or someone who doesn’t focus on dailies.

You never answered my question.

I’m not suggesting you need to do more dailies. I can remove this line if it is too confusing. I merely stating that if the rewards change, the require may need to as well. I’m not saying I want them to change, I’m not saying they should change, I’m just trying to be fair.

EDIT: I have removed that section form the main post as I am not looking to add more work to those going for laurels or the other daily rewards. Now that this part has been removed, are you fine with the suggestion?

Since I could care less about ap or leader boards yes in my case it would work for me.

Felbryn.5462:

Ewon.5903:

i’m trying to make this better for all of you.

That’s obviously not true: your suggestion is self-admittedly aimed at reducing the grind necessary to stay at the top of the leaderboards. I believe you when you say you’re not worried about newbies catching you, and I don’t think you’re trying to hurt anyone, but the entire thrust of your suggestion is aimed to benefit a small class of people who are competing on the AP leaderboards and I don’t see how it could possibly be an improvement for anyone else. Even if some people tangentially end up getting more AP under this system, that’s not a virtue; the devs can change the rate of earning AP to anything they want without making any changes whatsoever to the underlying system.

Your proposed change is possibly good for: people who care about getting the theoretical maximum AP. That’s it. That’s the only group that gets a more enjoyable game if we take away the small amount of extra AP you can earn for completing extra dailies after earning your chest (with, or without, rolling it into the daily chest). Your potential beneficiaries consist of people who are willing to put in multiple hours per day, every day, for over a year, just to maintain their position on the leaderboard—and maybe a couple ultra hardcore grinders who just have to have the theoretical maximum for its own sake.

For everyone else, the best-case scenario is that some development resources are used up making a change that we feel neutrally about. That doesn’t automatically mean your idea shouldn’t be done, but arguing that it’s good for everyone is either naive or disingenuous on your part.

Fair enough, targeting everyone was a bad idea on my part.

It still seems that the people against this suggestion would like the daily grind to be the large reason for people being the top of the leader board though. I’m not looking to make this easier, I’m aiming to shift the focus back to the “permanent” achievements.

Ewon.5903:

To be honest, you can pass me anyway. There is no catching up, the current method, my suggestion, none. So as far as making it so no one can catch me, that is already achieved. As long as I stick with this, there is no catching me. .

That brings up another point about the leader boards. They are kind of pointless now because there is no catching up. If someone started playing in say Jan 2013 they can never catch up. Perhaps a better way to make leader boards more fun would be to have a reset say every 3 months. Keep the current leader board for those that started at launch. Have a separate leader board that resets every 3 months for people that are into competing in such a thing. Kind of like an achievement point game that allows others that started playing later to play along as well.

Ewon.5903:

I’m not looking to make this easier, I’m aiming to shift the focus back to the “permanent” achievements.

So…why not just make the leaderboard ONLY count the permanent achievements, and ignore dailies entirely?

To be clear: I’m perfectly fine with the status quo. I don’t care about the current AP leaderboard, but I can’t imagine any change that would cause me to care about it, either. But if your goal is to have the leaderboard focus on the permanent achievements, it seems to me the obvious option is to only count those.

True achievement hunters put in the effort to get all the achievements. This change would be neutral to anyone who isn’t top if the leaderboards. Capping achievement point gain will hurt those who want that 500 point chest sooner. Anet resources to change and test these effect on the overall game and economy will be better spent on content that will affect more players. Giving more achievement points for less will make them worth less. More dailies help players play the way they want to and still get achievement points. Occam’s razor says easiest path is best and this would make dailies more complicated. Current daily system works fine.

JustTrogdor.7892:

That brings up another point about the leader boards. They are kind of pointless now because there is no catching up. If someone started playing in say Jan 2013 they can never catch up.

The AP leaderboard has been pointless from the day it was released. There already was no catching up since the people on top were already the ones doing all of their dailies and monthlies since lauch, and LS just widened the gap.

Heta.8629:

True achievement hunters put in the effort to get all the achievements.

Exactly. But should this needed effort be so much it may burn out those hunters? Considering the leaderboards, do you think its fine that the only way to improve one’s ranking (if it has any value at all…) is to wait for the other people to burn out and let go?

This change would be neutral to anyone who isn’t top if the leaderboards.

Actually it would give more AP/day to a large majority of people that only go for the daily chest.

Capping achievement point gain will hurt those who want that 500 point chest sooner.

This I have to partially agree with. People willing to max their AP a given day would be slowed down a bit, but overall they would actually profit from it, since their average daily AP gain would be higher.

Anet resources to change and test these effect on the overall game and economy will be better spent on content that will affect more players. Giving more achievement points for less will make them worth less. More dailies help players play the way they want to and still get achievement points.

This change would probably be not that hard to implement since it uses tools we know already exist (meta-achievments).

Occam’s razor says easiest path is best and this would make dailies more complicated. Current daily system works fine.

I will argue that it doesn’t work fine for me and other players that posted in this thread. I think the suggested changes would actually make it easier, changing the daily options to what they’re meant to be: options. Not the only time-limited way to obtain a reward.

I think we can consider four categories of players regarding this suggestion. Let X be the amount of APs given withe daily chest:

• Players that do less than 5 dailies. If the APs are to be given only in the chest, they would lose their daily income. If only the 5 first options give 1AP (plus the bonus for the meta), they will not be affected by the change.

• Players doing less than X dailies every day (probably the majority of the regular players). Some simply do not care about dailies, some others only want the chest, some usually go for a few extra AP but not that much. These players will benefit form the change since it will give them a bit more AP every day.

• Players that occasionnaly do more than X dailies, usually to reach their next achievement chest. Those will lose this ability of booosting their AP income through dailies, but their overall AP income will actually increase.

• Players that usually do more than X dailies. Those are AP-hunters that probably do all of their dailies anyways. They would be the more affected by the change, since their AP income decrease. They are the ones requesting a change to decrease the grind.

Please tell me if I forgot someone in this list. Considering it, the only negatively affected players would be the ones from the third category (and the fourth, but as I said we are asking for it). Do you think the the increased AP income do not compensate for the loss of the possibility to gain a few more AP a given day? Don’t you think the shorter time needed to get the whole daily would give those players more time to get permanent achievements instead if they want an extra income?

Yamiga.7863:

Please tell me if I forgot someone in this list. Considering it, the only negatively affected players would be the ones from the third category (and the fourth, but as I said we are asking for it).

That sums it up pretty nice!

I totally agree with Ewon that they have to do something about the current system, considering they plan to increase the “daily load” even further with PvP-tournament dailies.
I deliberatly used this term as I really see the daily grind as a chore. And of course a change to the system would make it easier for us, but why can’t we ask for this. If this provides an improvement for our style of gameplay, why not?
If it doesn’t negatively affect those around us, it should be perfectly fine. People all around the world are asking for things that make life easier for them.

About me – I led the leaderboard in EU for a few months and am currently 4th – lost out on PvP achievements and that stupid Skyhammer-Farm I despise (but that’s a different topic).
So right now as I don’t have much time on my hands, I just log in for dailies and that’s it. I can’t really enjoy the game to it’s fullest…

Of course “I don’t have to” and “I can stop” – but I STILL WANT TO.
As stated above – back in the day daily achievements were done in like 20 mins and achievable through normal gameplay. That was perfectly fine. But with recent additions it gets bloated up to an extend that it’s not enjoyable anymore.

Yeah the leaderboard system is totally flawed – I second that – counting dailies, monthlies, etc. – It has no point.
But people like me (and Ewon I guess) wouldn’t be up there if we just did it for the leaderboard. It was added in March 2013 – more than half a year into the game and rewards were added months after that…
Without our completionist-mentality (doing every daily, etc. even before there was an actual gain) we wouldn’t be up there.
Of course it fuelled our ambitions to get even more points, but that’s just a side-aspect.

Screw the leaderboards and rewards altogether – I would probably still do all dailies without having any actual “gain” from it – just like to tick of everything on my “To-Do-list”.
I would have no problem if they get rid of the leaderboard altogether or rehaul it to permanent achievements…

So we are not suggesting this for the “fame” and “we don’t want anybody to catch up”-mentality as many of you like to reduce this discussion to.
We want to come to enjoy the game like we used to and get rid of those “compulsive dailies”. Enjoyment is all a game should be about – and the current development is ruinig our “unique kind of enjoyment”.

Screw the leaderboards altogether – I want the game to be FUN (for me) – cause that is what it should be about.

Thank you Yamiga and Animaniak. You have both made some great points that I was having trouble finding the words for.

If you increase overall AP gain it would mess with the in game economy because of the gold, laurels, and rewards that are given in the 500 point chests. Time invested should equal greater rewards. Being at the top of a leaderboard means something and you cheapen it by giving more AP for doing less. If you can’t or won’t put in the time to do every daily then you deserve to fall in rank. I believe a true completionist would still complete all the achievements even if there were no reward in order to feel that they have completed the content fully.

Heta.8629:

If you can’t or won’t put in the time to do every daily then you deserve to fall in rank.

Each comment like this is kind of a slap in the face to all achievement hunters who have dedicated time chasing achievements.

Is the effort we put in to do all the other achievements now invalid due to the fact that dailies are where we are now needing to spend most of our time? Why do you value the daily grind above the efforts we put in to get achievements from the general game?

We are putting in the effort, and we plan to continue to put in effort. The problem is, dailies are not the area for that effort. I have yet to find someone who has said they enjoy spending time everyday, doing every single daily. There are few saying they like having the option to do one or two extra, but not all every day (you would need high achievement points to prove this too).

You can say these are optional as much as you want but the leader boards will contradict that argument. Here is something optional, but there is a ladder for the person who does the most of them.

If you don’t think I have put in effort for my achievements, just because the added amount of dailies are draining, then i must ask, did you have any respect for an achievement hunter anyway? It would seem you are classing effort strictly as the amount of grinding you are willing to do.