Guild Wars 2

ArenaNet is making a decision when it gives a maximum opportunity for people to spend 3-4 hours every day doing PvE, WvW, and yoloq/tourneys in order to get 18-22 daily achievement points. It may be good to give people a choice in how they earn daily achievements but the main point here is that the top 1,000 leaderboard is completely determined by this detail. ANet is creating a competition for us where we have to spend 3-4 hours a day doing dailies to stay competitive, that’s the main problem here. I’ve been doing it since May and the Secret of Southsun and it’s turned into a full time job. ANet should change the incentive structure for dailies so all players can earn the maximum daily amount in less time.

+1 to the original suggestion.

If Anet does nothing to improve the situation at the 21th january patch I will likely quit the game. I noticed how my playing habbits have become more and more unhealthy and how I keep spending less effort for my real life responsibilities. Sometimes I only sleep 3 hours a day to not miss achievement points and get my RL done at the same time.

So Anet should consider this as a deadline from a dedicated player who spends on average more in the gem shop than the cost of a subscription fee in other games.

The AP system was completely flawed since the beginning.The funny thing is, Gw1 had a fairly nice daily / AP system.

There were proper dailies available on the latest releaes. They rewarded experience, gold and zaishen coins, a currency to be used at some specific merchants. There were also dailies tied to War in Kryta, which rewarded commendations, a different currency for different merchants, instead of coins.
And even if not an AP system at all, Hall of Monuments was close to what I would expect for this kind of feature: completionism, not limited by time constraints.
For GW2, however, ANet designed a weird system that merged both daily and AP concepts, which are completely unrelated and don’t necessarily cater to the same playerbase in most other games.

For a long time, the system could have been fixed. A hard cap on daily/monthy AP could have been introduced, with some kind of currency being given to players once the cap was reached. Zenith/Radiant/Hellfire skins could have been bought with this currency, along with many other items (some of them somehow tradeable, to allow gold conversion without introducing raw gold, and inflation, into the system).
Instead of that, they released laurels, which pretty much fulfilled this currency function, and kept alive the AP mess they’ve created.

Further on, there’s the way living story works. It’s actual content (not the hundred of times repeated mindless tasks dailies and monthlies usually are), but still temporary, and I don’t think a good AP system should be dependant on this kind of content

Can the current state be reverted?
It’s probably too late, but some kind of “fix” can still be made, the sooner the better.
I’ll try to introduce a (probably horrible :P) example:

First of all, a hard cap should be introduced slightly beyond the AP amounts top players have collected.
New dailies and monthlies would reward both AP (as long as the cap has not been reached) and a new currency that would replace laurels. Laurel vendors should be reworked and the current amount of laurels on player’s hands adequatelly converted to this currency.
Already achieved Zenith/Radiant/Hellfire skins should be deleted and introduced as items sold by those merchants (a currency compensation could be possible). Items that have been transmuted to these skins should stay if a skin reversion is not possible.

For living story, now again, some kind of hard cap would be needed.
Temporary content to be released should stop rewarding minis or backpack skins on meta completion (some titles here and there for the meta and the most difficult “achievements” if anything) while LS achievements would reward a new currency instead of AP (or in addition to, if the cap hasn’t been reached) to be used at some temporary merchants.
This new merchants could offer those minis/backpacks in addition to some utility ones (like seasonal consuables) and even items that are currently offered only at the gem store (like seasonal mini sets). This would allow players to choose a reward they really like or even to save currency for the next LS if nothing appealig is available.

Finally, developers should try to add real permanent achievements in the game.
From completing JPs in a limited amount of time (and without portaling ofc :P) to a succesful dungeon run with a reduced amount of players, there’s really a lot of room for improving.

just don’t touch the AP that we currently have, i worked hard for the AP’s i have since i don’t have time to play all the time.
i am currently sitting on around 2700 AP, i don’t hunt them but am glad i have something.

Fully support OP.

Ewon.5903:

After some kind messages/mail in game, I will continue for a little bit, but I will not be going for the new PvP dailies. It seems several of the other top achievement hunters will be doing the same. Anyone who thinks this is about staying at the top should recognize that some people are stepping aside from the opportunity for an advantage just due to the fact that this is not the way we want to play.

+1

Animaniak.5619:

Yesterday I really struggeled with myself and came to the same conclusion. I too will boycott the new dailies – maybe trying for 3 SoloQ-wins while completing my “regular PvP-daily”, but not on a regular basis.

Same for me.

Animaniak.5619:

To be honest I feel like I lost some kind of purpose in the game – it will never feel the same and just somehow unfinished…
Let’s see how long I will last playing this game…

And that’s the point. Most of what I would say has already been said in this thread, so I won’t repeat. The only thing I have to add is this:

ArenaNet bases their success on (partially) how much time people are spending in their game, right? So you might think that adding more dailies might make them feel more successful, as more people spend more time just to grind these out, right?

You’d be wrong. At best, it would be a very short term increase, until the burn-out sets in. If I’m spending all my time grinding these dailies, there’s less time having fun in game. So after I’m done, I just want to go to bed or do something relaxing like watch YouTube cat videos. I’m likely to spend more time in game if I can do something that’s more fun than getting all the dailies. I get the feeling from this thread that there’s a lot of people just like me.

As far as developer time required – I’m suspecting it would be minimal. ArenaNet already has at least the framework to implement this by how the Living Story meta achievements are rewarded.

Ewon, well written.

I support the ideal of bringing people back to enjoying the game and not to a grind to rewards (be they leader boards or achievement chests). I believe one of the initial conceptual plans for GW2 was to avoid the typical MMO grind which is precisely what players seeking those rewards are facing.

What I do not support however is the prevalence of time-sinks over player skill and game exploration. In general I have recommended that dailies be removed as they really are nothing more than a daily time-sink grind for some reward which could be implemented better (through story meta achievements. ex: complete 3 living story metas for an achievement chest and title). Let achievements come from experiencing game content and completing LS – let them be a record of how long you have been an active member of the community and not how much time you sink daily into a grind (if a point system must remain in the game at all…).

I just find it frustrating so many posts and discussions on a time-draining daily system when instead we could be discussing how to lift up players for their skill, their community activities, their participation in each story sequence over time, their enjoyment of the different aspects of the game, and for, of course, making the game better. The commotion is caused because some people want to be completionists while some want to just obtain a daily reward – why can’t your daily reward be playing “Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game” – which is most likely having fun and exploring lore or PvPing – not killing 50 wolves and 20 ravens every day for a point.

Just thought I would check in. I have successfully stayed away from the game and missed my first set of dailies after trying to quit. Man, it feels great to not have that daily grind looming over me.

I definitely agree with you Dyne. There are much better game changing discussions that could and should be going on. I would encourage you guys to fight for the game you want/thought this would be.

My suggestion was not perfect, but I think it would have been the simplest solution that would impact the game as little as possible. Basically something that would have made the game playable for me. Not perfect, but playable. If I have learned anything from my current job, it’s that you don’t necessarily suggest the best solution, but rather the solution likely to have the least amount of push back.

Ewon.5903:

Just thought I would check in. I have successfully stayed away from the game and missed my first set of dailies after trying to quit. Man, it feels great to not have that daily grind looming over me.

I’ll help you quit. Send me your stuff or better yet seek out new players in game and the forums and send them your stuff. Otherwise, now that you are freeing yourself from obsessing over achievement points maybe now you will find a way to truly enjoy the game and be able to put it down for the night when the fun is over for the day. Look around the game outside of those achievement point tasks, you might be surprised that there are other ways to have fun. I sincerely hope you find it, but again, if not send me your stuff.

Happy Wintersday!

The dailies are far more time consuming than before, they should have kept them between 1h-2h or game time, not 4-5h, this is getting out of control.

I agree with the AP chest, where all the dailies are actually options you chose, and not feeling forced to do all of them because you “miss” AP you’ll never get again…

Right now it promotes unhealthy playstyles where you have to do specific tasks, not always the things you wanted to enjoy in the first place, and drives you away for real life more and more. Some actions should be taken in favor of casual gamestyle as advertised at the beginning, and not promoting playing like a gold seller 24h a day to “keep up” with the breath-taking rythm that has been settled now.

Totally +1 to the Op i tried to say that many times but as you pointed out already i got nothing but hate and the usual “it’s your choice” comments.

Anyways i’ve come to a point where i just cba anymore to do every of the daily resulting to slack more and finally didnt log in at all for few weeks… also i got kicked out from Top50 to 170ish now but oh well , i just can’t and don’t want to sacrifice 90% of my available play time into dailies.

Especially the Win xxx games PvP achievements are the biggest Pain (if i remember they had something like this already before but took it out again) because it is simply not in your hands and you depend on other people which shouldn’t be the task of your PERSONAL daily.

As i suggested already as well lots of times, i would also give the AP in the daily chest itself so it makes it really choosable what you want to do, so it’s fair to every kind of player be it PvE, sPvP or pure WvW players, everyone has the same reward wasn’t that the target of the game?

Anyways i wouldnt mind if you add a little karma/ 3-4s or something like that if you complete more daily categories.

Just my 2 cents

Peace

In my opionion a good solution can be this:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Daily-change-to-Weekly/first#post3366690

I think it’s an easy solution to develop that don’t force you to play in a routine everyday but leave achievement point gain as it’s now.

take a look on it.

Hi :o)
I see as key question this: What is meaning behind AP?

For me AP is “map of content”, at start of dailies I saw meaning of AP for Anet in “attracting players” and also I see element of “rewarding for gametime”.

This topic is focused on “achievement hunting” gameplay style and “burden for daily completion”.

Tonight I spent 4 hours for sPvP solo arena wins. I’m not going to invest so much time to it again :o) 1 hour for me and this content is enough, no more and not daily at all.
It’s really obsession and not fun. In longterm “all dailiest must” is in my POV unhealthy. Current update just made it more visible. I think that purpose was to attract players for Solo and Team Arena.

At all, I don’t support Evon. Possibilities are open and player is the one who choose and decide. I like to have option of “little more challenge with another AP”.
I can support idea that points for .. Solo/Team arena wins arent funny. You can have 30 Topstats in arena and no win.

What I support mainly in this discussion is change to leaderboards. Leaderboards arent today competitive.
I also like some cosmetic changes of AP UI – watch list works badly with dailies, 3 near completion are useless options – for timeconsumpting isnt right number 90% of total value, but 90% of values between last and next achiev rank, no memory of UI for last seen topic, …

Ewon.5903:

Just thought I would check in. I have successfully stayed away from the game and missed my first set of dailies after trying to quit. Man, it feels great to not have that daily grind looming over me.

Sounds like a feeling I would very much like to have aswell at the moment. Although it sort of reminds me how people try to stop other addictions. They know it is bad for them, yet they can’t stop. One day though… I will.

I agree with what Dyne said aswell. I don’t think dailies should award points at all. Repeatables aren’t the way to go. Hard accomplishments and exploring everything the game has to offer is what I would like to see awarded. I could probably write a few thousand words on how I would’ve loved to see an achievement system, but to be frank I don’t see it worth the effort with the little attention our community has gotten unfortunately. I still very much support the message of the thread though and those of you that are still coping I wish you all the best.

If AP from dailies and monthlies would be removed I would gladly give up my daily and monthly AP I earned so far. Its a price worth paying.

Malediktus.9250:

If AP from dailies and monthlies would be removed I would gladly give up my daily and monthly AP I earned so far. Its a price worth paying.

I have to agree with this. The funny thing about grinding daily AP is how much it padded all of our achievement points with practically no enjoyment. Before they added the extra ranked PvP grind you could usually get 18 AP per day from doing the dailies, or 126 points per week, 256 points in two weeks. 256 AP / two weeks is more than all of the living story achievements that have ever been released. They actually took the reward structure and flipped it on its head. Where average players would want to concentrate on living story because it’s new content that disappears in 2-4 weeks, the best way to pad our AP score has always been grinding all of the dailies. The priorities need to be rearranged. Most of what I just said was off topic to your post but I wouldn’t mind one second, it would help me forget about all the time I wasted doing what felt like a prison sentence.

Besides throwing out that idea, it’s good to see this thread is still active. Keep it alive so they don’t forget! :-)

Ewon, if ANet decided to do the daily chest idea, how many achievements would you want to be required to complete the daily? Would you keep the current 5 points and 5 AP, maybe 10 points and 10 AP? Maybe have a different number of points for AP, like 5 points for 10 AP?

These are just an example, I personally wouldn’t mind any of them.

I’m here just add support to my fellow completionists in general disappointment with AP system and where it’s currently going.

Missed another 2 APs today. Equivalent to 200,000 Dolyaks.

As a late AP hunter that did not join the game at launch, I feel like I will never be able to be at the top. Here is my proposed fix which look like yours.

Hardcap.

• How: Dailies gives 1 AP. Add a hardcap to dailies (like Agent of Entropy). This cap is incremented by 5 (or 10) each day. E.g.: Today is day 500 of the game, the cap is at 2500. Tomorrow it will be at 2505, etc.. Laurel rewards are still 1 / day.
• Pros: AP hunters/farmers can still hunt/farm without nervous breakdown. Late AP hunters have a chance to be at the top of the leaderboard as they will have the possibility to earn more than 5 (or 10) AP each day.

to all haters in this thread: everyone loves to play the game for their reason/game style. someone likes to collect minis, do i hate them for it? no. someone is really deep into whole story in gw2 which i really dont care about, but do i hate those ppl? no. someone is pvp player only, do i hate them? no i dont. i could give you more examples, but i believe you know what i mean by now. so my question is: why do you hate achievement hunters? are mini collectors forced to get those minis? nope. but they still want them so badly. are pvp players forced to play pvp only? no but they want to play pvp cuz they like it most. so pls stop hating us, we dont hate you for you kind of game style as well. in a way yes we are forced to do those daylies all, cuz it was easy in the past, but anet just keeps adding more and more and it came to the point when its really hard/time consuming to get. now i get to the point where my real problem with this is: anet added pvp daylies where they FORCE us to win and we all know you need 5 players to win. and here is a real problem. this win doesnt require only YOUR skill but all 5. i dont mind to get even 20 different daylies when it requires my skill only. but getting 1 where it requires more skilled players is a real problem believe me. yesterday it took me 8 hours to get those 8 pvp wins. im not kidding. first team bad lose, second only 3 players joined lose, third team terrible lose, next dcer lose, next good team but we faced better lose etc. i would really like this pvp daylies to be back where they were OR make it matches played and not matches won.
so again. pls try to understand even us, we dont judge you either. peace.

IDK id it’s been mentioned yet (tldr set in) but, what about those of us with multiple accounts? I do the dailies twice, one for each account. I do them mostly for the laurels. Thus, take into consideration there are more of us than you’d think that run multiple accounts. We also have purchasing power with Anet since we buy things in pairs too!

Do not increase the time requirement for getting the 5 in for the daily. It can be annoying enough as is with the Living Story tied in.

5 hours a day for pvp dailies (assuming a 50% win ratio) is just unacceptable

I’ve stopped “farm” ap 6 month ago when i understood the leaderboards just don’t reflec nothing since all player are not equal on gw² (especially when ppl can’t do ap before or after an update …)
Now if you don’t a work, don’t have a social life, you can maybe spend 12h a day on gw² !
Anet is missing something since the start nothing to add

Now 2 easy solutions :

• convert daily to weekly (if you can’t play a day you can still do it the weekend)
• add a max ap you can make a day/week/month

Ex top 50, ex gw² player

if you find it taking to long to do a daily in PvP then why not just do the PvE version, it’s faster and you get what you want anyway.

^I couldnt care less about the laurels and other crap you get for the dailies. I just want the achievement points.

Missed 1 AP today. Equivalent of 10 Tournament wins on a warrior.

Constantine: It’s not hate (at least not from me). It’s concern that a very small part of the game population wants to change things for everybody else to suit their specific and unusual style of play.

It’s fine to want to do all the achieves. It’s not fine to tell everyone else they get less choice/selection/flexibility in types of game play because you personally can’t do all the choices. Would you say “I don’t have time to run every dungeon path every day, assault every WvW keep, experience all the LS, run 100 sPvP matches, and take out every world boss on the timer, so please reduce the game only to world bosses?”

Donari.5237:

Constantine: It’s not hate (at least not from me). It’s concern that a very small part of the game population wants to change things for everybody else to suit their specific and unusual style of play.

It’s fine to want to do all the achieves. It’s not fine to tell everyone else they get less choice/selection/flexibility in types of game play because you personally can’t do all the choices. Would you say “I don’t have time to run every dungeon path every day, assault every WvW keep, experience all the LS, run 100 sPvP matches, and take out every world boss on the timer, so please reduce the game only to world bosses?”

If you take a read through my suggestion, you will notice that this change should only affect those who actually do all dailies every day. This should have little to no impact on the rest of the player base. I in no way was looking for a change that would limit your choices or flexibility.

+1 to op’s suggestion; completely agree. to add to that a little:

they can introduce a cap on daily accrual of ap. lets say… 5 per day. anet can compensate for lost points by adding weeklies (which will also have a cap). furthermore, a cap can be added to monthlies also. doing any more than required # of categories will give boosted xp, karma, and gold. this way, ppl can accrue ap at a more relaxed pace. those who wanna do different categories for dailies will be able to do whichever ones they want. this way, adding more daily categories will be beneficial to all. by spreading the ap load across the month into 3 different slots (daily, weekly, monthly), it gives everyone more time and a chance to make extra cash by going beyond the necessary

I still favor the hard cap for dailies (10k would seem great to me) and monthlies (2.5k)

Malediktus.9250:

^I couldnt care less about the laurels and other crap you get for the dailies. I just want the achievement points.

so in short, you rather farm AP’s rather them playing the game……

If you didnt notice yet, you have to play the game to get AP.

sorudo.9054:

Malediktus.9250:

^I couldnt care less about the laurels and other crap you get for the dailies. I just want the achievement points.

so in short, you rather farm AP’s rather them playing the game……

Chasing AP is playing the game
It’s a playstyle, which actually encourages us in playing every aspect of the game. We are just more interested in the achievement points than in the daily chest.

Yamiga.7863:

sorudo.9054:

Malediktus.9250:

^I couldnt care less about the laurels and other crap you get for the dailies. I just want the achievement points.

so in short, you rather farm AP’s rather them playing the game……

Chasing AP is playing the game
It’s a playstyle, which actually encourages us in playing every aspect of the game. We are just more interested in the achievement points than in the daily chest.

and calling it a playstyle is an excuse to justify it, just like ppl calling a zerg fest a playstyle.

Zerging is a playstyle. I see nothing wrong with it. Its an MMO after all, so massive amount of players working together is nice to see.

Malediktus.9250:

Zerging is a playstyle. I see nothing wrong with it. Its an MMO after all, so massive amount of players working together is nice to see.

they wipe a whole map clean, kill champions within seconds, rage the moment a small group got there first and constantly ruins any type of immersion.
yeah sure, it’s a “playstyle” alright, one that should be forbidden.
it’s not “working together”, it’s a mass farm fest ruining and destroying any hope of normal play.
you might call it a part of the world but you’re forgetting that one man’s fun is another’s annoyance, why do you think i barely play this game……tip: it’s not Anet’s fault.

Donari.5237:

It’s fine to want to do all the achieves. It’s not fine to tell everyone else they get less choice/selection/flexibility in types of game play because you personally can’t do all the choices. Would you say “I don’t have time to run every dungeon path every day, assault every WvW keep, experience all the LS, run 100 sPvP matches, and take out every world boss on the timer, so please reduce the game only to world bosses?”

None of the proposed changes would actually limit the choice/selection/flexibility of dailies, only the upper limit on the daily AP reward and how it’s delivered. But also I believe this is a false comparison. A better one would read, “I don’t have time to run every dungeon path everyday, so please introduce a hard cap on the amount of gold that can be earned in one day from a given dungeon (or dungeons altogether).” Given how ANet has handled DR in GW2, the proposed changes to the current daily system are not so farfetched.

You guys can’t forget one thing when you talk about flexibility in the daily system. The daily achievements become a requirement for the top 1,000 leaderboard, and the top 1,000 leaderboard is a competition that people do. If ANet decided to eliminate the top 1,000 leaderboard so that people can’t compare themselves to each other, having to spend 3-5 hours every day doing dailies would no longer be a problem. It becomes a problem when the entire AP leaderboard incentivizes people to live unhealthy lifestyles and grind out one repetitive aspect of the game.

The comparison to limiting the number of dungeon runs per day is accurate, but it also doesn’t tell the whole story, because players are not forced to do every dungeon path in the game every day for the sake of competing on a leaderboard.

I am not really an achievement point hunter, nor am I even a particularly hardcore player, but I do like your idea and am kind of surprised at how many people are bashing it. It makes a lot of sense to me, though I guess that is partly because I only recently returned from a fairly long break from a game, one that started back when the old daily system was in place. Ever since returning, I’ve had a sort-of love/hate relation with the new daily. I like it, because unlike the old one I have options. However, I really dislike that all of the options I just don’t care to even shoot for are essentially forever-lost achievement points. Not from a leaderboard perspective, just from a “I will never get a chance at those again” perspective. It is like an internal battle between apathy towards boring grinding vs the completionist part of me. If, as you suggest, the daily just awarded a set lump sum to everyone regardless of which or however of the ‘optional’ daily achievements they did, that seems like a fair trade-off to me, even if maybe they made the daily take slightly longer to hit the bare minimum. And it would just mean that adding more options is more beneficial to everyone in the long run, rather than a potential hindrance.

XacTactX.6709:

You guys can’t forget one thing when you talk about flexibility in the daily system. The daily achievements become a requirement for the top 1,000 leaderboard, and the top 1,000 leaderboard is a competition that people do. If ANet decided to eliminate the top 1,000 leaderboard so that people can’t compare themselves to each other, having to spend 3-5 hours every day doing dailies would no longer be a problem. It becomes a problem when the entire AP leaderboard incentivizes people to live unhealthy lifestyles and grind out one repetitive aspect of the game.

The comparison to limiting the number of dungeon runs per day is accurate, but it also doesn’t tell the whole story, because players are not forced to do every dungeon path in the game every day for the sake of competing on a leaderboard.

It’s more for the sake of completing everything than of competing on a leaderboard. I’ve been chasing APs since launch for the sole sake of completion, that’s the reason I am currently in the top 20 eu but I will probably continue if the Ap leaderboard is removed.
I agree that the leaderboard promotes an unhealthy playstyle, but this playstyle does exists without it and is unhealthy only because of the current state of dailies that require a huge time investment for maxing APs.
Capping the daily AP would solve the problem.

Just wanted to pop back in and say I’m still 110% for this idea. I had a full day of work today and I wasn’t able to sPvP with my guildies so I’m pugging the team arena wins and it’s really just about the worst experience I’ve had with a daily.
inb4 “It’s optional” “You choose to do it” “leaderboards” “Man up”

Missed 4 APs yesterday.

In order to make up those 4 APs I’d need to do several hundred hours of WvW. Having the system setup with such ridiculous time gating devalues everything other than dailies.

It’s simply not worth it to participate unless you’re doing everything everyday, and doing so is soulcrushing.

I’ve been sitting at Viathan Waypoint for the past 30 min. waiting for the toxifiers to spawn. Bump for boredom.

The Big Spender achievement is up today. What I love about this achievement is how it requires 25 badges of honor to be spent, but the cheapest items that you can buy all require 6 or 12 badges. So the end result is you either spend 30 badges, 5 more than you would need for the daily, or you buy WvW gear and ascended trinkets, which cost 6-10x the 25 badges for the daily. I would think that ANet would use logic when it picks the amounts for the daily achievements.

LOL someone pointed out a hilarious trend in the achievements, Daily Fractal Runner has been up for 6 days in a row now. That never happened before until the Fractured! LS release. Was this intentional or a bug?

I personally think that achievement points should JUST be about permanent achievements. Daily ‘tasks’ to earn Laurels and other bonuses are fine, but basing the leader boards on who is the most grindy of them all is just lame.

I don’t care much about AP and I find it a good idea. The average player can choose out of a wider variety of dailies without bothering the AP hunters, isn’t it win win for everyone?

Anet adds these stupid dailies whenever people dont play content enough. As soon as they add a daily their metrics will suddenly look twice as good. Eg. Story Dungeons, dailies for living stories (which otherwise would be dead after max. 3 days),
I am starting to see the pattern.
More dailies to give more variety is a lie.

I feel you all need to work for it and just logging in to grab dailies in a couple hours to maintain your lead on that leaderboard isn’t the way to do it. If you want to maintain your standing, you should have to do all of the achievements and you shouldn’t be able to maintain your lead just by logging in for a hour or two to knock out those points.

If you don’t want to take the time to do them, you don’t deserve to keep your standing. Others that are activly playing the game longer hours that you should then be able to pull ahead, otherwise we can all just log in to do dailies to maintain our then go play a different game.