Guild Wars 2

Adding a damage meter would urge people to go full glass cannon in order to look good.

That’s not unsettling at all.

nachtnebel.9168:

No.

Most people don’t know how to read a Damage Meter correctly and tend to rate other players by nothing else than their DPS which is poisonous for the community.

I would love a damage meter for my own personal use.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a damage meter as long as it also can display healing done, boons given, conditions removed, damage mitigated and other things like this. So it wouldnt be a DAMAGE meter so much as a Numerical device to access functionality of builds and how well performance is.

The problem with implementing a damage meter is that is tends to emphasize damage for obvious reasons. How about a performance meter that shows these things:

Damage each skill used did(in depth breakdown):
Favorite Boon:
Weapon Swaps:
Combo Fields Created:
Combo Fields Used(How finishers happened in my fields):
Combos Finished(how many combo finishers did i do):
Damage Done / Condition Damage done:
Healing Done:
Damage Shielded/Evaded:
Boons Given:
Boons Stripped:
Conditions Given:
Conditions Stripped:
Damage Taken:
Damage Mitigated (armor/tankiness):
Players Revived:
Times Downed:
Times Rallied:
Hard CC Applied(Stuns/ Daze/ Fear/ Knockdown / blowout):
Soft CC Applied(Blind, Cripple, Chill, Immob):

Honestly bad people are the only people who should be afraid of some sort of implementation like this. This would just have to be very high quality and not some thrown together affair

Auesis.7301:

Yeah, let’s just ignore all support builds, we don’t need them! ALL HAIL THE DPS KINGS!

If you’re a support build and doing your job, you won’t have a problem. Most people understand that people who aren’t there to focus on just DPS will do less damage than everyone else.

I think most of you just have something to hide

people focus on DAMAGE too much in the phrase damage meter…

in reality this meter should measure all tracks of the game like i said previously and be called something like a performance meter or stat tracker to minimized ignorant hatred.

Gw2 is also designed with minimal UI so you can focus on the game content and world. This feature would contradict what GW2 has done so superbly of.

It never ceases to amaze me how people actually want to remain ignorant to how the game works. Since when is having more information a bad thing?

I’d like to address a few arguments specifically:

“Why should I rez?” Because you’re going to screw up later and your teammate will remember how nice you were in rezzing him and return the favor, thereby increasing your damage.

“Everyone would be pure dps specs!” This game’s punishment of pure dps builds is large enough incentive that most people play hybrid simply to stay alive. I would not be surprised to find that the hybrid builds do more damage in the long run due to more time on target.

At a minimum, I’d like a way to track my individual performance and determine for myself what exactly the word performance means. The inability to min/max my character and learn by the analysis of impirical data is an itch that GW2 simply doesn’t scratch.

There is also a competitive element that this game lacks in pve content. I derive a sense of accomplishment from the knowledge that I’m doing well. I also really enjoy learning how to be a better player.

Lets say I’m a Thief and I’m in a group with another Thief. He blows me out of the water on damage. I could A) feel ashamed and hope that he isn’t running one of those evil meters he can use to call me out, or I can have a potentially fruitful conversation with him about what he’s doing to achieve those numbers.

My question to the nay-sayers, is this:

Are jerks really any less of a jerk because they can’t see your damage? Or do they simply find other ways of being childish?

Not without an option to display your own stats or not. If people don’t like sharing their stats, they don’t have to. I’m not afraid, and I don’t have anything to hide. I’d just rather not get into an argument with xXShadowDarknessThiefAssassinXx because he’s a cookie cutter DPS thief who wants to argue that “DPS is the most important thing ever and I got the most.”

I WOULD like to share with my friends and guildmates, just not random kitten.

“it feels like there is really no way to gauge player ability in the PvE scenario”

First of all, DPS does not equal player ability. While you’re sitting there concentrating on your “rotation,” others are taking the time to set up effect fields for you to use and applying buffs/debuffs. And yes, tanking and heals happen too, even without the “holy trinity.” You should know this already.
Second, if you need a DPS meter to TELL you if a player is skilled or not, you’ve got bigger problems than how much damage you can dish out.
—————————————————————

“It feels as if, while playing, everyone is just doing their own thing”

A DPS meter would change this?
—————————————————————-

“it is almost impossible to tell who the better players are”

The ones who see bigger, more complicated issues than how much DPS they’re doing — those are the better players.
--—————————————————————

“when I am playing and in a group (whether a party or just a bunch of people working on the same quest) there is no sense of competition”

Does there need to be a sense of competition? I didn’t realize defeating a boss encounter was a competition. My party members are not my opponents, after all. You “win” by clearing the dungeon.
——————————————————————

“currently, there is almost no way to tell the difference between someone who button mashes their main attack skill and someone who carefully plans out their skills and uses them correctly situationally”

Seriously, a DPS meter won’t tell you that either. You get this, right? Every second I take buffing other players with protection, swiftness, might or whatnot, is time I’m NOT spending hitting the boss directly. Same goes for heals, helping others rally when they’re down, or dodging when I have enemy aggro. By doing these things competently, I have proven myself a valuable member of the team and ensured our success. And yet, because of it, my “DPS” will be lower for all the time I took not mindlessly hitting the monsters. How is this reflected in a damage meter?
———————————————————————

“it’s inevitable that other people will be judged based on their dps, that’s what happens when competition is involved, they go hand in hand”

I don’t buy your premise that PVE in GW2 is a competition. If you beat the dungeon, or succeed in the event, you all WON.
————————————————————————-

“What is the point of playing a game where there’s no winner and everyone is just as good as everyone else?”

Seriously? You’re going to ask that question, about a fantasy role-playing game with magical plant people and little robot-building gremlins who live in a flying cube? And you’re going to tell me that the quality of your experience here is represented by a your computer periodically spitting out a string of numbers?
———————————————————————

“I’m sorry but that’s how 5 year olds play games in kindergarten so that their feelings aren’t hurt.”

You’re right, we should all play this game like we’re in high school.

lol, i like the idea of seeing who is number one.

Feel sorry for them already especially when the whole zerg comes after him/her!

Good thing i doubt anything along these lines would come into play – trying to promote working with others without having to label someone better than another i believe is the way Anet is saying “yeah, your good, now get over yourself and help others for a change”.

most games seem to be the style of – “i have the almighty sword of POWA! kneel before Zod!”

rajjy.4832:

I could only think of one thing: WoW. So no.

Edit: Also I just don’t see the point of it. If you’re beating a dungeon then who cares about damage? Dunno. Just don’t see the use for a damage meter.

See what happens in Fractals, someone DC and can’t come back in (then leaves), someone rage quits without reason, what do you do then? Quit and start over? What if it’s your third Fractal? It’s possible to do the Grawl Fractal (a harder one) with only 3 people on difficulty <20 (I haven’t gone higher), it’s not impossible, or unheard off to do a dungeon with less than 5 people. Some people even solo them (a few parts)….

What I’m trying to say here is that certain encounters in dungeons can be done with less than 5 people, or even soloed. You can be beating a dungeon while someone is just auto-attacking, or is afk (sometimes they say it, sometimes they don’t) because the other 4 players are doing a great job

I can understand why some people might want a way to know how much they are improving themselves, I want to know too, soloing AC doesn’t cut it. If there was a way to see how much you are improving personally without making that “tool” usable in any other situation then I would certainly want it, but can’t see a way to bypass that last part.

PS: To avoid misunderstandings, by improving I mean “improving skill level” not improving your DPS

Rump Buffalo.2594:

The problem with implementing a damage meter is that is tends to emphasize damage for obvious reasons. How about a performance meter that shows these things:

Damage each skill used did(in depth breakdown):
Favorite Boon:
Weapon Swaps:
Combo Fields Created:
Combo Fields Used(How finishers happened in my fields):
Combos Finished(how many combo finishers did i do):
Damage Done / Condition Damage done:
Healing Done:
Damage Shielded/Evaded:
Boons Given:
Boons Stripped:
Conditions Given:
Conditions Stripped:
Damage Taken:
Damage Mitigated (armor/tankiness):
Players Revived:
Times Downed:
Times Rallied:
Hard CC Applied(Stuns/ Daze/ Fear/ Knockdown / blowout):
Soft CC Applied(Blind, Cripple, Chill, Immob):

Honestly bad people are the only people who should be afraid of some sort of implementation like this. This would just have to be very high quality and not some thrown together affair

The game already has a “meter” and is using it to award medals in dynamic events, I wonder what kind of things it counts (shouldn’t be only damage of course).

If they can make that perfomance meter viewable/usable only by the player then it could work- NOT, it won’t work. There would still be the issue of questions like: “How much damage did you do overall?”, “How much healing did you do overall?” it won’t work, there is no way to make this information available without affecting everyone.

Please define bad people

Rather than adding a DPS meter, some achievements can be added, or badges, which is visible to all and the quality of a player will be thus..determined. And GW2 is more about DPS and less tactics. All depends on player skills.

demetrodon.1457:

Rather than adding a DPS meter, some achievements can be added, or badges, which is visible to all and the quality of a player will be thus..determined. And GW2 is more about DPS and less tactics. All depends on player skills.

You mean more about tactics and less about DPS right?

Fyrebrand.4859:

Second, if you need a DPS meter to TELL you if a player is skilled or not, you’ve got bigger problems than how much damage you can dish out.

…

You’re right, we should all play this game like we’re in high school.

Your post was too long to reasonably quote the whole thing, but I feel like these two statements summed up your point, and I’m generally confused because you’re saying that data on player performance, i.e. damage output, healing, etc. is meaningless.

Skill is not this magical thing that some players have and others lack, it is experience and knowledge paired, and can be obtained by anyone.

It is very difficult to accumulate knowledge on what works the best for the role we’re going for without math to back it up. Players resort to feelings when empirical data isn’t available, thus we get the backward notion that huge numbers equate to better damage output overall.

We have no basis for comparing builds or evaluating one ability or weapon against another. We have no method for discovering how boons impact our damage or healing output. We have no basis for comparing what we’re doing against that of our peers.

This leads to heated arguments that can have no basis in fact because the facts are obscured from us. People complain that this or that class is overpowered or weak, that one class is mandatory while another is worthless without any real data to back up or inform their opinion.

The same players that would childishly laugh at you and judge you for your “terrible deeps” do so with or without evidence. If a damage meter is meaningless, then don’t download it, don’t turn it on, and you’re left to blissful ignorance just as you are now, and the rest of us can enjoy a little metagaming, self improvement, and strategy.

Xzygy.1452:

Your post was too long to reasonably quote the whole thing, but I feel like these two statements summed up your point, and I’m generally confused because you’re saying that data on player performance, i.e. damage output, healing, etc. is meaningless.

He’s saying that numeric data does not represent the reality of the situation. You could be healing 1,000,000 damage but if you’re doing it to keep everyone at max health rather than keeping everyone from dying, you’re doing it wrong. And there’s no way to put in dodge rolls or kiting into a numeric system.

We have no basis for comparing builds or evaluating one ability or weapon against another. We have no method for discovering how boons impact our damage or healing output. We have no basis for comparing what we’re doing against that of our peers.

Meet Mr. Damage Formula and Mrs. Regeneration Formula and their close friend, Sir Vigorous Shouts

Also, here’s the formula for Might damage.

Those formulae alone give you

• Best armor choice
• Best weapon choice
• Best healing
• Boon effect on damage/healing

This leads to heated arguments that can have no basis in fact because the facts are obscured from us. People complain that this or that class is overpowered or weak, that one class is mandatory while another is worthless without any real data to back up or inform their opinion.

Hint: People are going to complain that whatever beats them in PvP or WvW is overpowered.

tonyl.5063:

rajjy.4832:

I could only think of one thing: WoW. So no.

Edit: Also I just don’t see the point of it. If you’re beating a dungeon then who cares about damage? Dunno. Just don’t see the use for a damage meter.

One player is using his abilities and contributing to the group’s success, the other is autoatacking… But hey, you beat the dungeon, so it’s fine that the other guy did pretty much absolutely nothing, right?

Damage meters are something you have to take the good with the bad. They help in letting you play at your best, since they’ll let you compare your damage of different abilities and rotations. They’ll let you catch the guy contributing nothing to the group. But there IS the bad side, the fact that most people just don’t understand how to read that information and what it actually means.

When it comes to damage meters in most games (even WoW), if you contribte your fair share to the fight, then you have nothing to worry about. If you’re actually trying, most people aren’t going to rage at you because your damage wasn’t overpowered enough. I’m willing to bet that most of the people against damage parsers are the ones that autoattack, that don’t understand their abilities and what they do, and stuff like that. Stuff people should grasp before grouping in these games.

And Id be willing to bet you would lose that bet. Some people just cba listening to the plebs spouting endless crap due to a meter. We all know for a fact all that would happen would be braindeads harping on about their derps while some poor dude had to be support and got harrassed due to lower DPS. If people really need DPS meter (aka kitten extentions) then the fault lays with not partying with people you trust.

I’m so glad this isn’t in the game because of all of the negative things it would do to further separate the community (which is already splintering due to other items added and taken away from the game recently). DPS meters, gearscore and the like do not belong in any game because they are only there to cause problems between players especially when running dungeons. This game is not designed like most (no trinity) so expecting everyone to be at a certain dps when this title is meant to be played for survivability (no enrage timers, armors having only a minor healing stat, most people seeking toughness in armor for dungeon runs) it just seems to me that there would be unrealistic expectations from those who believe you can glass cannon your way through everything on every class. You can’t we’re not all playing warriors and guardians sorry.

And what of the person who makes the decision to forgo a little damage in order to add extra support features. This game doesn’t have a ‘Healer’ Roll so you can’t just say ’He’s the healer he doesn’t have to DPS anyway’. Infact I have read articles many times say how the Dungeons are best run by a support team then a DPS one, and I agree.

With a DPS meter people will start kicking out the guy who stopped to Revive a player, or who decided to forgo DPS traits for ones that aid in reviving/healing other. DPS meters don’t and can’t take someones’ effectiveness in kiteing, Crowd Control or How much of a Buff-monkey they are. They won’t track how man conditions they removed from allies, or How many they applied to enemies.

It has been discussed on the forums many, many, many times. But this is not WOW, or any other MMO. GW2 works very differently from Holey Trinity MMO’s ad there is simply NO place for DPS trackers.

Hi Everyone! I believe everyone is assuming that Damage meters is for "ONLY " damage reading. If i were to remake the name, like Recount in WOW ( which btw is a brilliant idea) it would be a stat reader. HPS DPS Damage take, Rezzes made can all be accounted for in these meters. THE POINT IN THESE METERS is to enhance gameplay efficiency NOT COMPETITION. Competition is based on personal intentions meaning only an individiuals make the call to take it as a competition and be SERIOUS or CASUAL with their skill level. Again, i think the intentions of everyone here is fair and understandable; but allowing meters in place to for our own personal skill effiency development would be a brilliant idea. For those that do not want to use it, that is fine. For those SERIOUS playsers that can benefit from it (you know who you are) it would be an excellent asset to the game. Even though the meter is inaccurate at times; it still gives it over a 50% accuracy on reading a person’s skill efficiency and rotations during battles.
BTW they should also add in inspecting—— it’s a good way to at least know if people arent lying about their exotics because they can always mask it with Transmutations.

I find everyone’s logic on why damage meters would be a bad thing to be down right silly … “Oh I’m not going to revive this player cause it will drop my MAD DEEPS” … Like really? Anet put a lot of work into making this game a cohesive team building experience and damage meters arent going to change that. At the end of the day you are trying to get kitten done and not reviving a player when you can easily do so just to keep your damage up is highly inefficient. Why would any player opt to not revive an ally when doing so might very well end in the whole group wiping. Less people in the fight means less people to absorb some of the damage and could end with everyone dying. Also sure the name “Damage Meter” implies only one thing but for anyone that knows what a legitimate damage meter is then they would know it doenst track just damage, but healing, damage taken, etc. Yes they did away with the Trinity but all these roles still exist in a diminshed form. You can still make builds that focus on high group or even single target healing. You can still make a build thats primary focus is to soak up damage dealt to you and your group. OH! and you can still make a build thats primary focus is to deal massive damage. What people need to realize is the only real way to see how effective these different builds are is some form of meters. With the near limitless amount of builds for each class you cant judge how effective your own build is based on how well any single group you are involved in does. You could be getting carried by someone with a great build or if the group does bad it may not have anything to do with you but you will never know for sure without any kind of meter.

As for all the people talking about how everyone that goes full glass cannon build may be less useful to a group, well that is very true and anyone that has played a game that relies heavily on damage meters such as WoW would know that pure damage does you no good even on the meter if you cant stay alive. So only a noob would go full gc just to top meters when up time on a boss will give you more productivity then just being able to do a ton of dmg before you get put on your kitten

Damage meters would not change this game one bit for the worse. Wake up people there are still elitists everywhere. Go use gw2lfg to find a group for Arah. Damage meters wont bring the elitists because they are already here and they arent ever going to go away regardless of the measures that Anet or any other company takes to ensure they have the best community out there. What meters will do is help hardcore players ensure that they are being the most productive for their group as they can be. I’m with you Domino.

I’d personally love a DPS meter, first it tells you if a person can actually play their class and can pull a decent amount of dps, second it makes lazy kitten in groups do their job and pull some actual dps other than spamming their auto attack, third it makes people revise their build and improve because im pretty sure nobody wants to end up last on the dps meter. everyone who doesn’t like a dps meter is probably someone who could never meet its requirements.

Lupi is your dmg meter , i can do it with no gear only a weapon , ppl can have watever build & gear & still get stomped so, NO NO NO NO NO NO No NO !

O/P – No,, Please, NO.. NO.. Just, No, thank you very much.

DPS Meters bring in elitist game-play, ignore those who support or revive their fellows and generally take the game in completely the wrong direction. I’m sure many of us have seen how DPS meters (and the thousands of other mods & addons) in other games changed those games and look where we are now.

We don’t need such tools to tell us how to play or whether someone is doing “enough” Damage Per Second.. This game should break away from such things and move towards the collaborative, communal & ground-breakingly creative game it has so much potential to be.

No DPS meters, please!

I would like a DPS meter just for my self, so I can fine tune my own DPS, im a support mesmer and use alot of condition damage, damage of time. Basically the useless COMBAT tab doesnt give any real help at all.

something is needed when you can’t do it without… you have to equip at least a weapon to deal damage… you also can read the number of damage you are dealing each time. that’s all you need to play.
you don’t need to know if you are better than everyone else and you can see for yourself if you are doing better than before with different build. no need to put competition between players in pve.
a lot of people is pleased there is no competition in pve, we all can kill the same mob and have fun with it, we can stop to do it and help downed players, and it actually happens, people come to ress you when they can because they know the reward at the end of the fight doesn’t depend on dps (the reward is simply ugly for everyone^^).
and i think this is the best think happening in a mmo, a played a lot of them (never played wow though that apparently is the source of all that is evil in the world :P) and only in guild wars i can stay relaxed, i don’t have the feeling i need to be the best at everything and enjoy the help that randomly arrive. i always thanks people for partying with me and for ressing me when needed even if not in party and i try to do the same for them (i have the combat healer title and i’m proud of it).

this being said i don’t think there is any need of a tool for showing off, cause grief, and put the feeling of being useless to someone.

sorry for grammar and spelling

edit: deleted a very rude comment about meters and real life

For instance, I did a pug group today fractals 26 or something, 3 of the group where MF leechers, the group’s overall PDS was shameful. Wiped almost 3 times on water first stage. Wiped time and time again on other parts. In the end I gave up, and it takes a lot for me to give you.

MF on bosses that they keep wiping on, come on. If I had DPS meter I would of left group at the start of first fight, and for good reason.

Too many people are lazy leechers in this game, and at pressent there is no way of telling who is who.

I say bull***t. I see no reason for not having a Damage Meter. All slackers gonna cry and complain about adding it…

A dps meter will help me IMPROVE myself, if you don’t care about improving your char, keep it for yourself. And yes, it will help me improve it because i will test stuff in action.

Lame kids..

Agreed the only people that fear a DPS meter are the ones that dont want you to know how much MF they got, im a support mesmer but I still do good DPS i hope, and if i dont i need to up my game, btw all good DPS meters in WoW also giave information on heals and other stuff not just DPS.

One that gave a good indication of everything a player does is useful.

Well, instead of a damage meter, maybe just having better combat logs? Like a way to filter and show only yourself or something that lets you record from a specific time to another.

I think the problem with Damage Meter is that people associate it with Recount from WoW. Recount from WoW was just something that invited a very negative gameplay behavior from players.

Instead, with improved combat logs, you can do the math yourself. And instead of trying to find “DPS” and “HPS”, people can do whatever they want with the data instead. But keep it so that it can be filter by player, only by yourself so you don’t go comparing other people’s damage. Improved combat logs would be perfect for those who just want to observe their damage, and should be enough for people who are testing on the training dummies.

I’m a “no” on DPS meters though. Those things are dreadfully dumb and I used to use them in WoW as a way to just “chart” how well I DPS against others. It took away from the gameplay for me and I’m sure it did the same for most people.

Nibiru.1423:

Agreed the only people that fear a DPS meter are the ones that dont want you to know how much MF they got, im a support mesmer but I still do good DPS i hope, and if i dont i need to up my game, btw all good DPS meters in WoW also giave information on heals and other stuff not just DPS.

I’m against damage meters. I’m also rolling around with 0% MF, with my gear consisting of 5 pieces of temple Exotics, a Knight’s exotic helm and 5 pieces of Rare Knight’s accessories.

Reasons I’m against it are various. For one, one of the key reasons I ever got GW2 was because I was convinced by a friend of mine that I could play the game solo. For me, in a game where you actually get to choose your weapons, that means a lot. I’m not going to be playing MMORPGs to be competitive, so I might as well play with whatever I want. Right now, that happens to be dual swords with Toy Sword skins, mostly due to an anime called Sword Art Online.

What comes to dungeon runs and people selecting who to make parties with, I think that’s bullkitten. Because let’s be honest, if you had to choose a random decked in full Exotic Knight’s gear or what-have-you, and a guild mate or a friend with full Rare MF gear, you would pretty much always pick the latter.

And even in the lucky event that you don’t get selective over the damage meter, that doesn’t mean that it won’t change things. Heck, even if you’re not literally getting kicked out of parties because of a low ranking on a DPS scale, you’ll still be getting bullkitten about it, especially if you happen to be playing a class that lacks support and/or happen to be wearing offensive-styles armors and ornaments.

As much as I loved the dps meters in that other game, this game doesn’t really need one due to the fact there aren’t any enrage timers (yet). I would however like to see a personal damage/dps meter for yourself that only you can see. If you’re with some close friends you can just type out in chat or say over voice chat what your meter says.

Personal dps meter would help you fine tune your own build and gear for whatever you’re going for. I would like to see someone argue against this.

P.S. Fix the combat log already!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Still-lacking-important-features/first#post1231947

I would absolutly love to have damage meters. It is a great tool to measure yourself against others or just against yourself. Now you don’t really have a way of knowing if the slight changes that you’ve done on your build helping or hindering you. You’ve got no way of knowing if those same mobs are dying faster on your shatter mesmer or on your double axe/greatsword warrior. It all depends on “feeling” if something is working better or not.
Accountability is never a bad thing. And the same people that are rude/obnoxious in a dungeon if you are low on dps are the same people that now are rude/obnoxious for some other reason.
Guild Wars I didn’t have damage meters, but mesmers still had trouble finding a PvE group, because they were perceived not to bring as much to a party. If that perception was based on fact I do not know, but if we had damage meters then we could either prove the assumptions wrong or lobby the developers for a buff for the class with hard numbers to back it up.
I can see why the developers wouldn’t want damage meters ingame, as i’m pretty sure if there were thousands of posts on the forums with screenshots of recount for a couple classes, something would have to be done about it.

Alf.9137:

O/P – No,, Please, NO.. NO.. Just, No, thank you very much.

DPS Meters bring in elitist game-play, ignore those who support or revive their fellows and generally take the game in completely the wrong direction. I’m sure many of us have seen how DPS meters (and the thousands of other mods & addons) in other games changed those games and look where we are now.

We don’t need such tools to tell us how to play or whether someone is doing “enough” Damage Per Second.. This game should break away from such things and move towards the collaborative, communal & ground-breakingly creative game it has so much potential to be.

No DPS meters, please!

That has already been made clear about the elitists. That is who anet wants to play the game. Why else would they add gated gear grind with VP in a dungeon? That is for total elitists. These are their preferred players. Also that dungeon has the best loot drops as well to reward them. Open world is 0 loot.
No elitists have been here for a while now and who anet want in this game.
I personally like DPS meters and would very much welcome one to improve my efficiency in game. I think it will help me make a killing on the TP.

How about a personal DPS meter that you can use to evaluate yourself? It would be possible to record statistics over time and log them.

I’d like a damage meter, but only for personal use. I’ve played wow and I think there’s nothing more poisonous to the community than Recount etc.

It would really help if we could export the combat log as text file – the rest could be done by a perl three liner.

This is a non-issue. Add-ons are not and will not be supported in GW2.

Toxyn.9608:

This is a non-issue. Add-ons are not and will not be supported in GW2.

We’re talking about having ArenaNet build one into the game, not an addon.

krojack.4920:

Toxyn.9608:

This is a non-issue. Add-ons are not and will not be supported in GW2.

We’re talking about having ArenaNet build one into the game, not an addon.

That would be even less likely to happen than add-on support. They want team work and cooperation, not competition in PvE. If you want a measure of skill, win in sPvP and tPvP.

Panda.1967:

GW is not a DPS game, if you want a DPS meter either find a way to make your own or play a different game.

ANet took measures to take the game away from the whole Tank, DPS, Heal trinity by making everyone fit these roles. The game was designed to encourage working with other players, and assisting them when downed.

While adding a DPS meter may sound like a simple harmless thing at first when you look at the intricacies of the system you will quickly discover that all it will do is force change to the player mentality and destroy the concept of working as a group.

There is a reason why in most MMOs the DPS classes wait hours for groups while the Healers and Tanks get groups instantly. Tanks and Healers typically don’t care about how high their DPS is, they have a single purpose and they focus on that. While a DPS player more often than not is focused solely on how high their numbers are. When the same players are thrown into a game like GW2 where DPS doesn’t matter the Healer and Tank adjust to the playstyle easily and assist others as though it were second nature, while the DPS player still focuses on their numbers but hindered by the lack of a visual meter they to adapt. Introduce a meter later and those DPS players who adapted will return to focusing only on their numbers and never help a downed ally up or toss any group buffs/heals when needed but instead focus solely on themselves.

What you are asking for is to take a group oriented game and add a single element that will turn 90% of the players into self centered egotistic DPS crunchers. We don’t want that.

I’m sorry if the last part came off as harsh but it’s true.

bravo! * claps enthusiastically * you said this perfectly. thank you.

Ooshi.8607:

I would absolutly love to have damage meters. It is a great tool to measure yourself against others or just against yourself. Now you don’t really have a way of knowing if the slight changes that you’ve done on your build helping or hindering you. You’ve got no way of knowing if those same mobs are dying faster on your shatter mesmer or on your double axe/greatsword warrior. It all depends on “feeling” if something is working better or not.
Accountability is never a bad thing. And the same people that are rude/obnoxious in a dungeon if you are low on dps are the same people that now are rude/obnoxious for some other reason.
Guild Wars I didn’t have damage meters, but mesmers still had trouble finding a PvE group, because they were perceived not to bring as much to a party. If that perception was based on fact I do not know, but if we had damage meters then we could either prove the assumptions wrong or lobby the developers for a buff for the class with hard numbers to back it up.
I can see why the developers wouldn’t want damage meters ingame, as i’m pretty sure if there were thousands of posts on the forums with screenshots of recount for a couple classes, something would have to be done about it.

for those of you who never gamed BEFORE damage meters were out? you measure your success the same way we used to:

1) is your group killing the bad guy?
2) is your group living?

if these two things are answered yes? you’re doing it right. that’s all that matters.

go to http://www.gw2lfg.com/ → cof or arah p4 ppl mostly ask for mesmers , war & gurdians; & that is without DMG meters , yet you wont them ingame, i play a necro , there isnt any encounter in the game that i find chalenging (full zerker) yet do you have any idea of how many times when i ask if i can join a random group & they ask for my class i get the response " oh sry full" or “no thx” or whetever permutation of those words. ITs sasd that ppl stil havent realized what this game is all about.

I’m only scared of damage meters because of how they turn otherwise intelligent individuals into idiots. In fact I’m not just scared, I’m horrified. Please no. Just go play WoW if you want a damage meter to worship. Even if you’re a diamond in the rough and you just want this for the right reasons, just think for yourself instead. Look at your abilities/traits, look at the numbers that pop up on your screen, do some math in your head, critically think about what you’re currently doing, and what you could be doing differently to improve. You do not need the data to figure out what is ideal.

No, will only cause greifing and elitisism.

Toxyn.9608:

krojack.4920:

Toxyn.9608:

This is a non-issue. Add-ons are not and will not be supported in GW2.

We’re talking about having ArenaNet build one into the game, not an addon.

That would be even less likely to happen than add-on support. They want team work and cooperation, not competition in PvE. If you want a measure of skill, win in sPvP and tPvP.

Exactly how would it be competition if it was a personal DPS meter that only showed you your own DPS? No one else saw yours and you didn’t see anyone elses.

Isende.2607:

for those of you who never gamed BEFORE damage meters were out? you measure your success the same way we used to:

1) is your group killing the bad guy?
2) is your group living?

if these two things are answered yes? you’re doing it right. that’s all that matters.

This couldn’t be more wrong. Just because you killed a boss doesn’t really mean you did anything right if you struggled like crazy through the whole thing with snail like damage being done to the boss and certain group members going down every two seconds. MMOs and games in general are made to cater to a multitude of people. Thats what makes them profitable. People can do what they want and play how they want. It is insanely selfish that people flame others for wanting more features in the game when features are optional and even if they added them the haters wouldnt have to use them. The more i read the more i wonder if half of the people that respond in the forums even think about the nonsense they spew or if they even read the posts before theirs to try and understand another persons point of view. Min/Maxing has always been a very attractive part of MMOs people like myself enjoy analyzing our builds to the T and spending a ton of time figuring out how to gear ourselves just so that we may be more effective in a group or even a solo environtment. Damage meters would make this process that much more enjoyable as we can actually see tangible results of our work in the form of hard data. Again damage meters dont just refer to damage but to healing, damage taken, revives, etc. Everyone keeps talking about elitists, but no one seems to actually read other peoples posts. Elitist are already here and they will be in every mmo and every game out there. People are getting turned down for groups because of their class. That has nothing to do with damage meters. I would love to see someone respond to my posts specifically with any form of a logical rebutle instead of just spewing out the same old bs about elitists. Yes, Damge Meters may put pressure on players to work on their builds and yes people may be insulted for their lack of “numbers” if they were added. But you dont always need damager meters to see when a player is performing poorly. And the most glorious thing about MMOs is that if you could care less about your group effectiveness then you don’t have to play with people that do care about your group effectiveness.

PS. Damage Meters didnt ruin anything in WoW, Gearscore did.

Now please prove me wrong i dare you.

PS. Damage Meters didnt ruin anything in WoW, Gearscore did.

Now please prove me wrong i dare you.
[/quote]

You are the reason why there should be no DM meters in the game , lol you re a living proof why not. And on top of all you dont understand the game yet. Slow snail dps that is what you see if the fight goes slow , wow, never consider of what the game mechanic was , maybe the player isnt so skilled & need more praktice, maybe althow he is build for max dps this spec aint so effective on that boss & tons of different reasons. Talking to cater to a multitude of players & then you want to divide them because of dmg meters;& “And the most glorious thing about MMOs is that if you could care less about your group effectiveness then you don’t have to play with people that do care about your group effectiveness.” this , just this tells everithing of how selfish you are.Prime example of a player who will rather dps a mob than help to rezz someone & ofc then flame him.
Class has nothing to do with dmg meters – you poor kitten class has all to do with dps as everyone knows that necros (example) are at the bottom of burst & dmg done due to how the class is designed , so what you want them out of the game ? Why do you think ppl want warr, mesemr, guardian combo ? It is becouse of wow indoktrination of game mechanic thus making the game unleasnt to players who play other classes ( & with that completly shatering what this game is trying to do & its combat mechanic).
You a number cruncher , oh for the love of… dont lie only becouse of the internet anonimity , you want a dps meter you have one , go with your guild to a random chanpion mob (with your spec) fight the mob sum all the dmg in your log & divide my the time spent fighting in seconds = dps. (if you cant do that you re just lazzy & dont care about our so caled fine tuning but only want to brag about numbers or if you find this to hard to do stop playing games & go in your room to study basic math.
Dm didnt ruin wow gs did , gs & linking achivements were the chery on top , but dm had a had efect , example: archimonde eazy fight as hell, but what was the major problem ppl fight over the position on dm rather than avoiding the rng fire. Toc first part of beast , fire patches or targeting the jumping mob thingy , it was laughable as on such a basic fight even after expansions ( high lvl + high gear) whipe because they didnt do what was for them to do & rather compete on the dps scale, i bet you couldnt even solo baron gideon with a random mana using class.
… or lfm need dps 6k dps for x dungeon ( wich is insane as the dungeon would need a reqirement of 1k ).
How will effect the meta in gw , ppl will start to do cookie cutter builds & with that pushing the game into the trinity & limiting player base choices on how to play the game.

P.S: you said : “Now please prove me wrong i dare you.” , my response is pff git

Domino, I’ll be honest.
I wouldn’t mind if the game didn’t show any numbers at all, and instead the damage/effects scaled in intensity with the intensity of the damage being dealt, perhaps enemies groaning when they get crit, and vice-versa.

Essentially, I really am against anything that turns the game into a “numeric superiority monitoring exercise”.

However, I think ANet should make all skills and their tooltips as clear as possible:
- Indicate the coefficient of Power/Condition Damage
- Indicate the current damage/duration correctly, taking all modifiers, including Sigils and Traits, into account.
- Possibly indicate the Crit damage amount as well, taking into account all the crit damage modifiers.
- Possibly even the average damage, taking crit chance and crit damage into account.

A game that indicates a decent amount of information in Skill Tooltips, is League of Legends.
It gives different colors to different stats.
So if it scales from Attack Damage, the numbers are Brown, Green if from Ability Power, Red from Health, Blue from special sources, etc.

Another point that I’ve mentioned elsewhere, is that even if the Tool is designed with good intentions, one must account for the possibility of it ruining the community.

In World of Warcraft, for example, the damage meters are so important that players depend on it to make an assessment, and the community has fallen into an elitist nonsense.

What about testing your own damage in pvp area?
Like having a dps meter only at testing npc’s.
To find your fitting build that does the best for your self?
Only there and no where else so no one can see in party’s/dungeons who’s better or not.
No one could say bad things about you right or not?
Your at least able to test what you can do.

NO NO NO NO…. I left wow because DAMAGE METTER….. ADDONS!!!! DECURSIVE!!!! HEAL BOT….. and many outhers addons…..

I want play and be happy…. and no one telling me what i need to do… the best build is it…. the best rotation is it….. omg NO NO NO

Altariel.4610:

NO NO NO NO…. I left wow because DAMAGE METTER….. ADDONS!!!! DECURSIVE!!!! HEAL BOT….. and many outhers addons…..

I want play and be happy…. and no one telling me what i need to do… the best build is it…. the best rotation is it….. omg NO NO NO

GW2 =/= WoW so your comment for the most part doesn’t apply here. You don’t need those tools unless you’re killing hard mode bosses which require every extra point of damage you can put out even if it’s not exactly how you want to play.

This game on the other hand doesn’t have raids. It’s limit is 5 man dungeons which don’t require you do do max damage. There is a huge different in GW2 end game and WoW end game which people don’t seem to grasp.