Hide player level from the player
That’s a very interesting concept. I’ve always wondered what it would be like to literally have an MMO-type of game with no level system at all…just story and stuff to do. That way, people could actually play the game instead of getting all hot and bothered about getting to max level and then complaining that there’s not enough content.
I think it’s a great idea. All the kitten overachieving MUST BE MAX LEVEL NAO gamers would hate it though, haha.
They would just have to guess their level…lol.
I would add the Map to this. I think a lot of the issue for people who say they’ve reached 80 and done it all is that they think 100% map completion means you’ve seen the game. People aren’t playing this game…they are playing the map. And the map only holds about 25% of the content.
Maybe just remove hearts, skill challenges, and vistas from the map until the character has found them on their own. You can keep Points of Interest to point people in the right direction.
Oh god I would love that. You mean I actually have to explore?
Unfortunately, everybody would then just wiki…type ‘this map’…ah, that’s where everything is.
Honestly though, an MMO with no level (or at least hidden) would be amazing. Maybe show it once you hit 80 just so all the people who only care about being the best can still feel that way…but leave the rest of the game with a strong…adventurer feel. I hate to bring Skyrim up, and I know it has a level system, but it was built in such a way that, at least for me, level didn’t matter. I was able to just explore, and play without giving a kitten where I was or what level I was.
Agree’d but it should be like this.
Red: Challenge
Yellow: Around your level.
Green: Easy.
This sounds like a good idea on paper, but in practice, it would actually detract from the game. Those who suggested and wanted it would be overjoyed, but then would come all the rampant complaints. “I can kill this red, but not this red, what gives, ANet?” “This sucks, these things are yellow and are absolutely trashing me. I’d rather just know everything’s level, because this isn’t fun.”
Honestly, my suggestion is that if you don’t want to pay attention to your level, ignore it. So you’re level 20 and want to visit a level 60 zone for exploration and the honours of getting your butt kicked? Don’t pay attention to the zone level, just explore. I think you’ll find it just about achieves the same thing.
“I can kill this red, but not this red, what gives, ANet?”
It’s that way now with levels and bosses. There portrait is just different.
Which isn’t my point. I hope you still understand my point, though.
My next question is this: other than the hiding of some arbitrary number, what does this change? What sort of improvement does this bring to the game? The idea of exploring and getting whomped by a red monster still exists with what we have now, so I don’t really see any reason to change it other than someone’s “immersion”.
As for Skyrim, Aedan, the reason level didn’t seem to matter is because, for the most part, most content scaled appropriately to your level. If it was meant to be harder, it was scaled up from your level, but still approachable, etc. GW2 was not designed in the same manner.
Almost every Chinese or Korean MMO has this system and it works great. Besides, there are a few MMOs without level requirements, the one that comes in my mind is Age of Wulin. I’d personally make lvl 30 the max level in GW2, when you unlock your elte skill. All the zones with levels above 30 will be transformed into lvl 30 zones. They can twitch a bit the game difficulty in a way that lvl 30 feels like lvl 80, lvl 20 like lvl 50, lvl 10 like lvl 30. I would not reduce the amount of exp gained because the lvl 30 can be actually obtained in a day. This will keep a little tradition as in GW1 where you could get max level in 1 day too.
The color code the OP is suggesting is pretty much what I have seen in older games [even the same colors]. Given other color coding differences in GW2 I have to wonder if Anet wants to go there. Also wouldn’t it be an invitation to green camping and then people just not participating until they were red?
That’s a very interesting concept. I’ve always wondered what it would be like to literally have an MMO-type of game with no level system at all…just story and stuff to do. That way, people could actually play the game instead of getting all hot and bothered about getting to max level and then complaining that there’s not enough content.
This is brilliant!
People would still complain, likely even more, that there’s not enough to do. It is the way of MMOs, unfortunately.
This sounds like a good idea on paper, but in practice, it would actually detract from the game. Those who suggested and wanted it would be overjoyed, but then would come all the rampant complaints. “I can kill this red, but not this red, what gives, ANet?” “This sucks, these things are yellow and are absolutely trashing me. I’d rather just know everything’s level, because this isn’t fun.”
Then one of the categories should be “Not Possible”. But even so, the color coding would change and would always be relative to your “hidden” level. I don’t see the problem.
Future expansions will not have a Advertized raised level cap. It would be experience based on the server side that decides who can play in those zones.
More red enemies can spawn in green areas as the server population becomes more experienced.
On Meta events, should one meta event ever become easier than another?
(edited by Onshidesigns.1069)
Currently, with ANet’s design, there’s no reason they have to continue to raise the level cap, if they desire not to.
More “red” numbered enemies could, currently, spawn in “green” numbered areas as the server population becomes more experienced. There’s nothing stopping ANet from doing this with the current setup.
I think combining this idea with this one I made in another post, would work well.
Karma/Heart vendors also Collector NPC, like the ones in the first GW.
*NPC makes you something if you bring them what they want.
*Add a fee in silver to make it a cash sink.
*Should be unlocked when heart is filled
*Some Collector NPC’s might require items from more than one zone.
*Collector NPC’s will asks for trophies, items, karma items
*a new bank section just for trophies
*Collector NPC’s rewards would also be soulbond.
———-
Waypoint fees would work by EX still.
Currently, with ANet’s design, there’s no reason they have to continue to raise the level cap, if they desire not to.
More “red” numbered enemies could, currently, spawn in “green” numbered areas as the server population becomes more experienced. There’s nothing stopping ANet from doing this with the current setup.
ANet needs a hidden level or experience cap that can be raised to control how people move throughout the zones in future expansions. It could be 3000 but would not change your strength compared to green enemies. Because this system is still using downscaling.
After reading the replies, I think this could be a quick and easy patch.
I don’t believe ANet needs anything of the sort with their current system design, actually, but that’s just my opinion. I feel like they currently have all the tools necessary to control that, if it’s something they deem necessary. I also don’t believe it’s a “quick and easy patch”. I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree, at this point.
Easy-Hiding player/enemy/item levels
Easy-Replacing with color coding based on the current system
This Does not change how the current system works. It just
presents the system differently.
Players need to get rid of there ego, this does that.
Players need to get rid of there ego, this does that.
While I do STRONGLY agree with that, I don’t believe that this will do it. It may help and be a push in the right direction, but we are humanity. Ego comes with that fact.
Easy-Hiding player/enemy/item levels
Easy-Replacing with color coding based on the current system
This Does not change how the current system works. It just
presents the system differently.Players need to get rid of there ego, this does that.
It may seem easy on the surface, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it is so. Are you a programmer? Do you have any idea of the time and effort involved? No?
You can’t make such assumptions, make a suggestion that does nothing more than change the aesthetic of a system — while ignoring comments made against it — and then accuse players of having an ego. That’s insulting. And this system does not solve that.
Player need realize the game is not about end game content. The whole world is meant to be played at level 80. ANet made a mistake by making you think just because a zone below your level that you are now finished with it.
ANet made a mistake by making you think just because a zone below your level that you are now finished with it.
ANet has not done this, not in the slightest. In fact, they’ve stated explicitly that this is not the case, and that they intended, from the start, for players to always be returning to other zones. If this mindset still persists, it is a problem of the player, not ANet.
As for your suggestion, might I ask how gear would be handled? Would it be unchanged? If so, how would I know when I could equip my next piece of gear? Would being in a city reveal my true level? Or are you implying an overhaul of the gear system, too?
Yeah… along with that, ANet should also implement following:
- Spells display “POW” “SHAZAM” “BAM” instead of damage #
- Spells, character sheet, traits will not display any info, no activation time, CD etc.
- Can no longer see how much gold, karma you have
- Players will have to guess how much item is worth in karma or gold (Green=You probably have enough, Yellow=Maybe you have enough, Red=You probably don’t have enough)
- Since items won’t display numbers, you’ll have to guess it will be an upgrade to what you want
Fantastic idea, all of it.
(edited by Chronologist.9782)
Or are you implying an overhaul of the gear system, too?
That wouldn’t necessarily have to be the case…
What about simply making the gear not require any specific level? You still could only get “better” gear from certain areas of the world, and/or the TP. Another option would be to literally make all gear for the most part “equal” minus bonus choices. It would be a drastic change to the current MMO model, but it would again help in reducing the “AHMG MUST HAVE L33T ARMORZ!” mentality a bit. The main reason most people care to get “awesome” gear in the first place is to show off the model/texture.
I see that this idea is going far beyond anything that could really happen in GW2, but it is definitely an interesting concept to consider.
Well, my point is this: if there is any change to the armour setup currently in place, then it defeats the argument that this is a “quick and easy” change, because it impacts another feature. We’ve stepped outside the realm of improvement to “changing things just to change things”. =/
And, still, as far as I can see, this isn’t to improve upon what we already have, but to appease some for the sake of “immersion”. I’ll admit to being wrong if someone wants to correct me on that point.
That was done in FFXI. The current system seems fine, to me. Each mob type within an area has certain abilities. Some may take advantage of the playing character’s weakness while others fall to that character’s strength. At least, with the current system, players are awarded xp based upon the event and level cap that translate into consumable skill points. What kills worlds is having players avoid areas because they no longer have a reason to play in them. Being able to convert drops with dust/powder is good, although it may not prevent people from completely abandoning locations after the end-game. Each map area should offer something unique and valuable to keep enough population to sustain events.
ANet made a mistake by making you think just because a zone below your level that you are now finished with it.
ANet has not done this, not in the slightest. In fact, they’ve stated explicitly that this is not the case, and that they intended, from the start, for players to always be returning to other zones. If this mindset still persists, it is a problem of the player, not ANet.
As for your suggestion, might I ask how gear would be handled? Would it be unchanged? If so, how would I know when I could equip my next piece of gear? Would being in a city reveal my true level? Or are you implying an overhaul of the gear system, too?
Hearts and a outdated leveling system does this unintentionally.
I said above gear would use the color coded system and it’s level would just be hidden. This makes the stats more important than ever.
The same system would there but hidden from the player view. Sure balancing downgraded drops need improvement. But we know that already.
Colour-coding the gear doesn’t improve anything. In fact, I’d argue that it makes the system tedious and unappetizing.
I would quit playing if this ever happened (which it wont). Instantly.
Without a leveling system, I have nothing to progress towards. No silver lining. Nothing glorious waiting for me on the horizon. Just colors every where.
You too, whether you admit it or not, would tire of that system very, very quickly. Events are only fun for so long. And what do you gain from them? Only money and some gear that you are going to vendor/salvage for more money? No experience? No increase in power?
Abolishing the concept of level is doable – think Final Fantasy X – but it requires a whole system that gives you a similar feeling of evolution.
I personally don’t care about level itself, but I care about progression – becoming stronger.
I wouldn’t mind at all – it’d be more balanced – if you always had the same base stats, and just grew in skill and whatnot. But alas.
However, the way GW2 is designed, it needs a level system.
And it’s fine to see your level and other players’ level.
I’m okay with hiding creature level and just using a colored system.
You should, however, always see other player level as if it is his real level.
Essentially, you should not be able to tell whether another player’s level is adjusted (up or down) or not.
Endurance 2.0 || Attributes, Traits and Conditions || Skill Variants
(edited by Nurvus.2891)
You two "solanu.3784 and Cinder.4865 are just in a race to get to endgame content. what is really tedious and unappetizing is grinding in the save level area game every day.
Nurvus.2891 you care to much about your level. To a low level player they don’t care about your level.
How about a way to identify a player’s strength similar to the color coding. And when you click on them you can see their achievements.
I care too much about my level? You didn’t read my post then.
Try again, you don’t have to insert coin.
Identify a player’s strength/achievements/gear is precicely what I’m against.
Go check Diablo 3 and WoW forums, and you’ll get an idea why.
Ok, I mixed up you post with theirs.
What I don’t understand is why some want to grind in level 80 areas when they can enjoy the whole game.
You two "solanu.3784 and Cinder.4865 are just in a race to get to endgame content. what is really tedious and unappetizing is grinding in the save level area game every day.
We’re a month and some change outside of release, my highest level character is level ~65, I’ve run a single dungeon once, and I’ve barely touched anything the game has to offer. Please don’t make assumptions, especially about me, as you’ve been doing this entire thread. =/
I am enjoying the whole game, not just level 80 zones (as evidenced by my above statement), and I still think your suggestion isn’t a good idea. It doesn’t add anything to the game, and it certainly doesn’t improve the experience.
Edit: Furthermore, you seem to be deviating from your original point. Are you trying to suggest a colour-coding system or ways to “force” (which shouldn’t be the case, you should be trying to find ways to gently encourage) players back to lower level zones? If it’s the latter, what you’ve initially suggested won’t do that, and you’ve completely derailed yourself from your original point.
(edited by Cinder.4865)
Isn’t there a color coded presentation on the levels already?
On my Level 45 character (my highest level character at the moment) I see lower level characters’ level number being shown in white numbers… or maybe it’s grey I’m not sure. Then higher level characters for example around Level 55+ or so are shown in red (again I’m talking about the color of the level itself, not the color of the characters). Then Level 70+ characters are shown in purple I believe.
That also applies on the world map itself for each zones. Lower level zones’ minimum and maximum Levels (shown on the map as actual numbers) appear as different color-coded to determine the “difficulty” of the zone’s content (and leveled content).
But, in Guild Wars 2 hiding the actual level information is neither necessary nor detrimental, nor even positive or negative. I mean it’s pointless basically. The thing is that stats are adjusted (scaled up or down) based on the zones’ minimum/maximum Levels range already, which in itself pretty much nullifies the effect of presenting what level you are and what level the mobs or bosses are, because you already know by reflex that your stats are balanced for that zone’s levels ranges. If you do look at the level itself it doesn’t suddenly make things more or less difficult, it doesn’t change anything.
Anyway honestly I’m not quite sure if I did get this right, but from the way I understand what you’re asking OP then this is what I think. Please do tell me guys if I’m off the track here. But anyway yeah I think that removing the levels (to hide it) wouldn’t change anything due to the autmatic scaling of said levels, it is almost as if we already had no levels per se. Almost… I know we do have levels, but the effect of scaling makes having levels or showing them much less important or dramatic as it could be in other similar games.
=.=
Why must they be the imaginary colors red-yellow-green? Isn’t it bad enough that you label me Red-Green Colorblind, as I don’t follow along with your delusions of these imaginary things?
Its almost as if you want me to go “Hmmm, its too bright to be what people call Yellow, so its insanely hard or insanely easy. Coin-flip to engage again…”
And no, Switching “Red” and “Green” with the imaginary colors “Blue”, “Purple”, and Violet aren’t acceptable either.
…
Stupid Protanopia.
- (Death, Terry Pratchett, Hogfather)
How about adding colored dots around character icons which represent their strength. One dot for every 20 levels. It will also look nice too. How will this work with downleveling? Simple. The dots will change colors: A lvl 80 character with 4 yellow dots will become downleveled in the starter aria having 1 dot red and 3 yellow. It will show how high level he is (4 dots) and also people will know what level are playing in.
Supposing they will add 20 more levels with the next expansions, then one more dot will appear.. The dots will be visible under the health bar while in the world and around the face icon circle when selected.
For foes it will work the same only that they will not be showing downleveled but only their strength.
In an zone normal foes will have 1-3 dots, Veterans 4 and Champions 5
Oh god I would love that. You mean I actually have to explore?
Unfortunately, everybody would then just wiki…type ‘this map’…ah, that’s where everything is.
Honestly though, an MMO with no level (or at least hidden) would be amazing. Maybe show it once you hit 80 just so all the people who only care about being the best can still feel that way…but leave the rest of the game with a strong…adventurer feel. I hate to bring Skyrim up, and I know it has a level system, but it was built in such a way that, at least for me, level didn’t matter. I was able to just explore, and play without giving a kitten where I was or what level I was.
You should check out Ultima Online. It has a skill system similar to what you see in Skyrim, without the level system. You just have a maximum number of skillpoints you can develop at any given time. And you can set skills to decrease if you want to level up something else in its place.
If you give it a try, I recommend playing on a pre-UOR private shard, as the current official servers have way too much nonsense that they added to try to compete with Everquest/WoW style MMOs.