Guild Wars 2

Wolfey.3407:

Only Nerf I can see happening to portals that wouldn’t cause to much rage is forcing it to only work on:
-Your Self & your party members

Which would be fine and acceptable, would force people to join the mesmers party to use his or her service but ’ey, would prevent others from QQ because they hit “F” while running around.

AND THEN THE FOLLOWING RAGE FROM EVERY WVW GUILD WHO RELIES ON PORTAL TACTICS!!!

Yeah I support this! Idc about WvW and I could use a good laugh.

Daishi.6027:

Wolfey.3407:

Only Nerf I can see happening to portals that wouldn’t cause to much rage is forcing it to only work on:
-Your Self & your party members

Which would be fine and acceptable, would force people to join the mesmers party to use his or her service but ’ey, would prevent others from QQ because they hit “F” while running around.

AND THEN THE FOLLOWING RAGE FROM EVERY WVW GUILD WHO RELIES ON PORTAL TACTICS!!!

Yeah I support this! Idc about WvW and I could use a good laugh.

Could add Squads too,
Zerg speaking, militia generally screw things up any ways…

Personally, I don’t have the best computer, so I lag a lot in jp’s. Further, I have a disability that makes jp’s pretty much the only difficult thing in the game. I try to do jps when and where I can but some cause me too much discomfort or pain and it’s not worth it. Mesmer portals are a nice way for the community to lend a helping hand to one another when they can and I know I appreciate that. Do I think it’s silly when 1 portal takes you from outside the jp to the chest in one shot? Yes I do. Am I bothered by it when people use it? Not really no.

I see where the OP is coming from and this is, after all, the suggestions forum so they have the right to express their opinion.

My opinion is that it should stay the way it is, and if ANET wants to remedy this in the future then make the chests themselves out of range of a single easy port from the beginning to the end.

Ayrilana.1396:

SkyShroud.2865:

Ayrilana.1396:

How is exactly not wanting portals being used to trivialize OPTIONAL content being selfish and anti-social?

Ayrilana.1396:

So you’d rather make a personal attack on me rather than make a constructive argument against my suggestion?

LoL~~ that escalated quickly.

The posts were deleted. That’s why it doesn’t make much sense.

i have seen the posts and the poster is just being crudely honest

Ayrilana.1396:

So if a Mesmer can create a portal from the beginning of a dungeon to the end, then that is okay and working as intended?

It’s not known if the devs intended for players to use portals to bypass entire jumping puzzles. Silence on their part doesn’t mean they support it nor does it mean they don’t. This is far from being a pressing issue but I thought I would bring it up.

I find it wrong to skip entire content and that’s my personal belief. I also believe it was not the dev’s intention to have mesmers portal people to the end of jumping puzzles. I think of the portal abuse to be the same as exploiting although not as extreme. Think of it as a felony compared to a misdemeanor.

Thank you to everyone for expressing your views on this topic.

Ayrilana.1396:

Braxis.8396:

Ayrilana you again think only about it from your point of view, try think as one of my friend who tried make puzzle for 2 hours, and when he almost reached chest did get d/c during jump (died) and had to do everything again. Mesmer portals were add to game because game makers did know that many people will have to big problem to make it on their own.

That’s an assumption why they were added. Just because someone struggles on something doesn’t mean they can then justify abusing something. If people could attack Mai without taking damage by using a terrain exploit, would they be justified since they struggled?

TS analogy has been very far fetched. Firstly, you can’t port a person from the start of the dungeon to the end simple because it is too far. Secondly, no sane people will do that anyway unless they are exploiting and by exploiting means to bypass intended “non-passable” obstacles and mechanism but again is too far (refer to first point).

However, JP since day one has been “allowed” to a certain degree to utilize portal as a form of transport. If there is nothing changed since day one which is like a year ago, do not expect anything to change. I am very sure that it is not Anet’s intention to suffer massive outrage from the community but to promote a helpful community.

Bloodchild.2680:

My opinion is that it should stay the way it is, and if ANET wants to remedy this in the future then make the chests themselves out of range of a single easy port from the beginning to the end.

you can do portal for some other JPs as well, to the chest directly, well, at least close to chest, just short walking distance

Wolfey.3407:

Only Nerf I can see happening to portals that wouldn’t cause to much rage is forcing it to only work on:
-Your Self & your party members

Which would be fine and acceptable, would force people to join the mesmers party to use his or her service but ’ey, would prevent others from QQ because they hit “F” while running around.

They’re fine the way they are.

The argument that says “Mesmer portals should be allowed in jumping puzzles, because without them, people who can’t jump or don’t want to jump won’t be able to get the reward” just sounds silly to me. Because, you see, that’s the point. A player shouldn’t be able to get a reward for something he or she didn’t do. The essence of a reward is to provide payment and recompense for accomplishing and completing a task or challenge. I suppose it’s not as bad now, since the only rewards you get are an achievement and “special” (not really) shoulder exotic. But in the future, when special skins are available or any reward that says “hey, I did it! I beat that puzzle,” then we will have a problem. Because then, you won’t be able to tell the difference between those who actually struggled through the challenge, or those who had a Mesmer do it for them. On top of all this, it trivializes content.

Stop complaining of portals! In my relationship, my boyfriend can not absolutely make puzzle, and I so very well, I want him it can succeed! So I help on the course when he falls, returning it to its home base with portal!

Not all equal world! Portal is normal for the help!

Razor.9872:

The argument that says “Mesmer portals should be allowed in jumping puzzles, because without them, people who can’t jump or don’t want to jump won’t be able to get the reward” just sounds silly to me. Because, you see, that’s the point. A player shouldn’t be able to get a reward for something he or she didn’t do. The essence of a reward is to provide payment and recompense for accomplishing and completing a task or challenge. I suppose it’s not as bad now, since the only rewards you get are an achievement and “special” (not really) shoulder exotic. But in the future, when special skins are available or any reward that says “hey, I did it! I beat that puzzle,” then we will have a problem. Because then, you won’t be able to tell the difference between those who actually struggled through the challenge, or those who had a Mesmer do it for them. On top of all this, it trivializes content.

Why does it matter? Not everyone plays to stroke their kitten. Whether someone actually got through the puzzle or not doesn’t affect you at all.

Why do you “deserve” the prize more for getting through the puzzle easily? Didn’t the person that tried to do the puzzle for over an hour and just can’t because they lag and/or have a disability put in just as much if not more effort than you did? Yet you think only you should get the reward because you happen to be able to afford a decent computer/internet connection or because you’re fortunate enough to not gotten surgery on your hand or something because of an accident at work.

Other than messing with your ego, which isn’t any of our problem anyways, can you name one way people porting through a JP actually affects you?

I dont mind if people use the portal, but I also found it weird when I found out some JP can be done with this portal skill.

Dan.2940:

What about people who only have 1 hand to play with and can only play the game casually? You saying that they should just avoid the Jump puzzle in general even though the chest contains an exotic reward?

Gotta love this.

Short anwser: yes.

Long anwser: Don’t want to sound like a kitten but: Dude, come on. Are people who are not able to do good hand-eye coordination required tasks, should not do them? Should blind people choose colors for your new housepainting? Should I be the CEO of any company becouse I have no idea about leadership?

And returning to the game: Should anyone be awarded for something they are not able / too lazy to do? Think about the anwser.

If your anwser is still no – I want… no I demand Anet giving me all legenderies this moment, as i have done nothing to deserve them.

Changing portals and adhering to the suggestion will only serve to induce rage within the community. With how they are now, they serve to promote a friendly, helpful community.

Some might argue that it doesn’t promote this because a few are against portals. That doesn’t work; the only reason one would be against portals is because it hurts one’s sense of achievement. Arguing that portals should be changed because it is wrong feeds one’s sense of justice.

Hurting the community on the basis on something so subjective like “sense” is, no matter how you word it, selfish.

Euthymia.4807:

Why do you “deserve” the prize more for getting through the puzzle easily? Didn’t the person that tried to do the puzzle for over an hour and just can’t because they lag and/or have a disability put in just as much if not more effort than you did? Yet you think only you should get the reward because you happen to be able to afford a decent computer/internet connection or because you’re fortunate enough to not gotten surgery on your hand or something because of an accident at work.

Yes, I think everybody who puts in effort deserves a reward.

I’ve said before, I couldn’t care less if people are ported to the end chests directly * double shrug *

However:

Euthymia.4807:

Other than messing with your ego, which isn’t any of our problem anyways, can you name one way people porting through a JP actually affects you?

This is not just an issue of ego. The feeling of putting in the effort, and getting the prize, and someone else NOT putting in the effort, and getting the prize, is perceived as an injustice.

Yes, there are people with bad connections, hand surgery, old age, etc. But they are outnumbered by the lazy, who are perfectly able to make an effort but will pick up a freebie when they see it. This is natural.

The desire for “equal pay” is also perfectly natural. Have you seen this amusing and cute video about an equal pay experiment with monkeys? You should

So how does it affect me when someone else gets a free ride? It doesn’t.

How does it affect me when someone else gets a free ride and a free achievement points? It suddenly does, thanks to the leaderboards, whose whole point it is to compare your own achievements (i.e. things that were achieved) to other players’.

This just because you asked for an explanation.
______________________________

All that being said, I personally don’t care about the leaderboards, I don’t care about people getting free chests, and I don’t care about how mesmers spend their time.

I do care about the jumping puzzles which were lovingly designed by the devs, and if I was the devs, I would find a way to discourage people from bypassing this lovingly designed content and jumping straight to the reward chest AND achievement. I perceive this as disrespectful towards the arts. My personal solution would be to implement invisible check points along the way. Players ported to the end would get the chest, but only players who passed all the checkpoints would get the achievement.

There is no such shortcut for dungeon achievements, crafting achievements, personal story achievements, slayer achievements or anything else – in order to get the badge, you have to succeed in completing the task. I don’t see why jumping puzzles should be an exception.

I get that not everybody has the resources to do every task and get every achievement. I, for example, don’t have the time to slay 1000 giants, but I don’t feel entitled to get a free achievement from someone else who slays 1000 giants and then using a skill that tricks the game into thinking I did.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Euthymia.4807:

Why do you “deserve” the prize more for getting through the puzzle easily? Didn’t the person that tried to do the puzzle for over an hour and just can’t because they lag and/or have a disability put in just as much if not more effort than you did? Yet you think only you should get the reward because you happen to be able to afford a decent computer/internet connection or because you’re fortunate enough to not gotten surgery on your hand or something because of an accident at work.

Yes, I think everybody who puts in effort deserves a reward.

I’ve said before, I couldn’t care less if people are ported to the end chests directly * double shrug *

However:

Euthymia.4807:

Other than messing with your ego, which isn’t any of our problem anyways, can you name one way people porting through a JP actually affects you?

This is not just an issue of ego. The feeling of putting in the effort, and getting the prize, and someone else NOT putting in the effort, and getting the prize, is perceived as an injustice.

Yes, there are people with bad connections, hand surgery, old age, etc. But they are outnumbered by the lazy, who are perfectly able to make an effort but will pick up a freebie when they see it. This is natural.

The desire for “equal pay” is also perfectly natural. Have you seen this amusing and cute video about an equal pay experiment with monkeys? You should

So how does it affect me when someone else gets a free ride? It doesn’t.

How does it affect me when someone else gets a free ride and a free achievement points? It suddenly does, thanks to the leaderboards, whose whole point it is to compare your own achievements (i.e. things that were achieved) to other players’.

This just because you asked for an explanation.
______________________________

All that being said, I personally don’t care about the leaderboards, I don’t care about people getting free chests, and I don’t care about how mesmers spend their time.

I do care about the jumping puzzles which were lovingly designed by the devs, and if I was the devs, I would find a way to discourage people from bypassing this lovingly designed content and jumping straight to the reward chest AND achievement. I perceive this as disrespectful towards the arts. My personal solution would be to implement invisible check points along the way. Players ported to the end would get the chest, but only players who passed all the checkpoints would get the achievement.

There is no such shortcut for dungeon achievements, crafting achievements, personal story achievements, slayer achievements or anything else – in order to get the badge, you have to succeed in completing the task. I don’t see why jumping puzzles should be an exception.

I get that not everybody has the resources to do every task and get every achievement. I, for example, don’t have the time to slay 1000 giants, but I don’t feel entitled to get a free achievement from someone else who slays 1000 giants and then using a skill that tricks the game into thinking I did.

Most people don’t care about the leaderboards or achievements anyways. I’ve been gaming online long enough to have learned to completely ignore and disregard leaderboards because most of the time (Especially in FPS games) the leaderboard is full of cheaters and stat-padders and thus means absolutely nothing. If it was up to me, they would have stopped putting leaderboards in games a long time ago.

The people that bypass the puzzles are a minority and most of them I would say only skip ahead after trying and failing over and over again, so I don’t think you have to worry about people enjoying the work that was put into the puzzles.

I am working in an office. I have a colleague, that works in the same office.
He is always one hour late and leaves one hour early, and does nothing in his worktime, just posts stuff on Facenote.com from 8joke.com.

We recieve the same payment.

But that doesn’t effect me or my work in any way. So it’s perfectly fine, right?

Bubi.7942:

I am working in an office. I have a colleague, that works in the same office.
He is always one hour late and leaves one hour early, and does nothing in his worktime, just posts stuff on Facenote.com from 8joke.com.

We recieve the same payment.

But that doesn’t effect me or my work in any way. So it’s perfectly fine, right?

LOL, I love how serious some people take gaming. The answer to your question is no, that’s not perfectly fine. Your comparison though is ridiculous (imo).

Bubi.7942:

I am working in an office. I have a colleague, that works in the same office.
He is always one hour late and leaves one hour early, and does nothing in his worktime, just posts stuff on Facenote.com from 8joke.com.

We recieve the same payment.

But that doesn’t effect me or my work in any way. So it’s perfectly fine, right?

I’m sorry, but how can you even compare these situations? You’re making up a story that is obviously “wrong” and “unfair” and equating it to mesmer porting in a VIDEO GAME..

Its been said 1000 times in this thread already, and i don’t see why people are still whining, it’s in the game so deal with it. If you don’t want to take the portal, don’t, but in no way does it have any impact on you.

Just because it bothers you that people take a portal to the top shouldn’t make you angry at all, you have the option to do the same thing, it’s not like its a hack or an exploit, it was put in the game by the developers. In WvW, if you’re playing as a thief, and are about to be killed by a zerg of people, would you use infiltrators arrow to port up to a high mountain? or just die because that’s “cheap” and this zerg deserves to kill you.

Think about the outcome if Anet were to stop porting in Jump Puzzles. Do you think people would rejoice and throw a party? or whine and complain to no end?

Bubi.7942:

Dan.2940:

What about people who only have 1 hand to play with and can only play the game casually? You saying that they should just avoid the Jump puzzle in general even though the chest contains an exotic reward?

Gotta love this.

Short anwser: yes.

Long anwser: Don’t want to sound like a kitten but: Dude, come on. Are people who are not able to do good hand-eye coordination required tasks, should not do them? Should blind people choose colors for your new housepainting? Should I be the CEO of any company becouse I have no idea about leadership?

And returning to the game: Should anyone be awarded for something they are not able / too lazy to do? Think about the anwser.

If your anwser is still no – I want… no I demand Anet giving me all legenderies this moment, as i have done nothing to deserve them.

There is no I in team. In a cooperative environment, we succeed together as a group, each providing their own strengths. Some of us are better at jumping, some of us can see the faintest boss tell, some are better at mind games and rock at pvp.

Some classes have higher DPS some have higher mobility.

I’m not exploiting when I rely on a warrior to DPS down some mob. I’m not cheating when I get aegis from a guardian. Neither are those classes, when they use my portal.

I did portal for some random guy yesterday on a Jumping Puzzle and then i asked for help killing aetherblade pirates because i was lowbie and couldn’t kill them alone.
I think that was a fair trade and i was grateful he spent hiis time helping me.
It was a social experience, and it was fun.

That being said, i think portals can really hurt the challenge, but can also help by other means.

Solution? Don’t use them if you are up to the challenge. No reason for feeling hurt by any means just because someone is using them to get there….

you don’t like portals you don’t use it and let people live with they skill they have.
next suggestion would be to get rid of mesmers clones because you don’t like it?

Bubi.7942:

Long anwser: Don’t want to sound like a kitten but: Dude, come on. Are people who are not able to do good hand-eye coordination required tasks, should not do them? Should blind people choose colors for your new housepainting? Should I be the CEO of any company becouse I have no idea about leadership?

Sounds like your point is that if you can do something, you should? Or is it just that if you can’t do something, you shouldn’t? Because if it is the former, than a mesmer can port others, so they should.
If your point is the latter, I greatly disagree with you. The only way we can ever progress in this world is if we push ourselves to do the perceived impossible. At one point in time it was impossible for people to fly.

Bubi.7942:

I am working in an office. I have a colleague, that works in the same office.
He is always one hour late and leaves one hour early, and does nothing in his worktime, just posts stuff on Facenote.com from 8joke.com.

We recieve the same payment.

But that doesn’t effect me or my work in any way. So it’s perfectly fine, right?

The 2nd largest differing factor in your analogy is that at your job, the person who receives higher payment for less work is actively hurting both the economy and the employer. Money for is increasing, without increasing product, and that just leads to inflation. I am fairly certain my conclusion is correct, but I will admit, I am not an economics major. Additionally, it is wrong, because that person is using their employer. They are receiving payment from the employer for time they did not commit. In the game, no one is receiving payment from another person for time not committed.

The largest differing factor in your analogy is that you are comparing a job to a game. A job is a responsibility that you have taken on to receive payment. A game is something you spend money and/or time on to have fun. The ultimate goal is completely different.

I usually do my puzzle but the last one with the “you fall or fail, you die” method and restart all isnt for me.
Its just a waste of time for ridiculous reward or success…

If you dont want portal dont use it but whats the matter if a bad player used portals? Only for your ego, youre the best tss

Before making an analogy,
Make sure that everybody is on equal footing. Everyone has a choice whether to take the portal or not. In a technical point of view, this is in no way unjust.

Also make sure that it is reasonably comparable. comparing jumping puzzles to something completely out of its caliber is inaccurate. ANet makes rewards from jumping puzzles negligible for a reason. Not only that, when you compare it to something huge like legendaries or a job, more often than not, it does effect others, whether you realize it or not.

The job analogy would work if everyone had the choice to come an hour early and late, goof off, and still get paid the same. The economy must also be in the dumps so that your pay ultimately means nothing but to fulfill your sense of achievement.

The Portal is a destroyer of Jumping Puzzles, why do you get a reward when you haven’t done any of it?
Why should you get Exotic Shoulders when you just stood by the entrance, waiting for a portal?
Theres a reason its an award there, to make people excited and actually jump it! Not portal around it!

Just make the Portal skill not usable in all Jumping Puzzles, either that or with a extreme cooldown. So if you want to “Cheat” you have to wait ages. (Also only in JP’s) But whatever you change, don’t let it affect WvW.

“Its optional! Its optional!” you cry more than anything else in the world. Of courses its optional, if it wasnt they would put it at the first area you go through when making a new character, forcing you through it!
But the thing here isn’t about the option to use it or not, to gain an advantage by “Cheating” and still get something at the end is wrong when the players who worked hours or days on a Jumping Puzzles get the same reward?

If you can’t jump the puzzle, don’t do it! Simple as that. If you are not able to finish a Jumping Puzzle the normal way you don’t deserve a reward! Don’t use Portals!

Without portals people would actually work for their stuff, and perhaps better rewards can be given if its incredible hard. Again, this jumping puzzle is permanent. Why stress with a portal is beyond me…

Giseth.9708:

The Portal is a destroyer of Jumping Puzzles, why do you get a reward when you haven’t done any of it?
Why should you get Exotic Shoulders when you just stood by the entrance, waiting for a portal?
Theres a reason its an award there, to make people excited and actually jump it! Not portal around it!

Just make the Portal skill not usable in all Jumping Puzzles, either that or with a extreme cooldown. So if you want to “Cheat” you have to wait ages. (Also only in JP’s)

“Its optional! Its optional!” you cry more than anything else in the world. Of courses its optional, if it wasnt they would put it at the first area you go through when making a new character, forcing you through it!
But the thing here isn’t about the option to use it or not, to gain an advantage by “Cheating” and still get something at the end is wrong when the players who worked hours or days on a Jumping Puzzles get the same reward?

If you can’t jump the puzzle, don’t do it! Simple as that. If you are not able to finish a Jumping Puzzle the normal way you don’t deserve a reward! Don’t use Portals!

Without portals people would actually work for their stuff, and perhaps better rewards can be given if its incredible hard. Again, this jumping puzzle is permanent. Why stress with a portal is beyond me…

ill agree with you that it does ruin jump puzzles, however, this form of “cheating” does not affect anyone else. Also, it does not ruin the puzzle for you so why should you care? Some people don’t want to spend the time doing the puzzle and just want the reward, others want to enjoy it and want the reward. Either way, explain to me how removing the portals from JP’s would make you happier. Seeing more irritated, annoyed players cluttered in a jump puzzle for hours? I agree that is does seem like a form of cheating, but 90% of the population is fine with it, the cons from removing the portals outweigh the pros.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

All that being said, I personally don’t care about the leaderboards, I don’t care about people getting free chests, and I don’t care about how mesmers spend their time.

I do care about the jumping puzzles which were lovingly designed by the devs, and if I was the devs, I would find a way to discourage people from bypassing this lovingly designed content and jumping straight to the reward chest AND achievement. I perceive this as disrespectful towards the arts. My personal solution would be to implement invisible check points along the way. Players ported to the end would get the chest, but only players who passed all the checkpoints would get the achievement.

There is no such shortcut for dungeon achievements, crafting achievements, personal story achievements, slayer achievements or anything else – in order to get the badge, you have to succeed in completing the task. I don’t see why jumping puzzles should be an exception.

I get that not everybody has the resources to do every task and get every achievement. I, for example, don’t have the time to slay 1000 giants, but I don’t feel entitled to get a free achievement from someone else who slays 1000 giants and then using a skill that tricks the game into thinking I did.

I think I raised a few interesting points here, but nobody’s replied to them.

Giseth.9708:

If you can’t jump the puzzle, don’t do it! Simple as that. If you are not able to finish a Jumping Puzzle the normal way you don’t deserve a reward! Don’t use Portals!

Without portals people would actually work for their stuff, and perhaps better rewards can be given if its incredible hard. Again, this jumping puzzle is permanent. Why stress with a portal is beyond me…

If you don’t like using portals, then don’t. People that do have no affect on you in the least especially considering the prize from the new one is soulbound.

There’s a real big issue with your ego if it bothers you so much that people portal through other puzzles to quickly get a piece of blue or green gear.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

All that being said, I personally don’t care about the leaderboards, I don’t care about people getting free chests, and I don’t care about how mesmers spend their time.

I do care about the jumping puzzles which were lovingly designed by the devs, and if I was the devs, I would find a way to discourage people from bypassing this lovingly designed content and jumping straight to the reward chest AND achievement. I perceive this as disrespectful towards the arts. My personal solution would be to implement invisible check points along the way. Players ported to the end would get the chest, but only players who passed all the checkpoints would get the achievement.

There is no such shortcut for dungeon achievements, crafting achievements, personal story achievements, slayer achievements or anything else – in order to get the badge, you have to succeed in completing the task. I don’t see why jumping puzzles should be an exception.

I get that not everybody has the resources to do every task and get every achievement. I, for example, don’t have the time to slay 1000 giants, but I don’t feel entitled to get a free achievement from someone else who slays 1000 giants and then using a skill that tricks the game into thinking I did.

I think I raised a few interesting points here, but nobody’s replied to them.

You did raise good points, and many people (Like myself) actually go through the puzzle and have fun doing so. However, I myself could not care less if people used portals, i use them time to time when i get annoyed at a jump i can’t make, and if you look back on this thread 90% of players agree with my thinking.

Arenanet cares more about their customers than about people taking the time to respect something they made for the game. In the end, changes made to the game are directed to make the majority population satisfied, not the minority. Think about it from a company perspective, should you take valuable time to make more enemies and have your customers get annoyed with the game?

Dan.2940:

Giseth.9708:

The Portal is a destroyer of Jumping Puzzles, why do you get a reward when you haven’t done any of it?
Why should you get Exotic Shoulders when you just stood by the entrance, waiting for a portal?
Theres a reason its an award there, to make people excited and actually jump it! Not portal around it!

Just make the Portal skill not usable in all Jumping Puzzles, either that or with a extreme cooldown. So if you want to “Cheat” you have to wait ages. (Also only in JP’s)

“Its optional! Its optional!” you cry more than anything else in the world. Of courses its optional, if it wasnt they would put it at the first area you go through when making a new character, forcing you through it!
But the thing here isn’t about the option to use it or not, to gain an advantage by “Cheating” and still get something at the end is wrong when the players who worked hours or days on a Jumping Puzzles get the same reward?

If you can’t jump the puzzle, don’t do it! Simple as that. If you are not able to finish a Jumping Puzzle the normal way you don’t deserve a reward! Don’t use Portals!

Without portals people would actually work for their stuff, and perhaps better rewards can be given if its incredible hard. Again, this jumping puzzle is permanent. Why stress with a portal is beyond me…

ill agree with you that it does ruin jump puzzles, however, this form of “cheating” does not affect anyone else. Also, it does not ruin the puzzle for you so why should you care? Some people don’t want to spend the time doing the puzzle and just want the reward, others want to enjoy it and want the reward. Either way, explain to me how removing the portals from JP’s would make you happier. Seeing more irritated, annoyed players cluttered in a jump puzzle for hours? I agree that is does seem like a form of cheating, but 90% of the population is fine with it, the cons from removing the portals outweigh the pros.

Why should it affect everyone to matter?
As long as its a cheap and wrong way to complete a JP. Of course people are fine with it, they get free loot and they don’t have to do a kitten thing to get it! By removing it, forcing people to actually do what you’re supposed to. What if there was an NPC that would auto-lvl you to 80?
No one would complain, and you’re not forced to do it. Does that mean that it isn’t a cheap way to get through the game, and the months/years ANet have been developing the game is just a waste and don’t need to be fixed? They probably used months making all the different jumping puzzles, and using Portals is just like saying “We hate your new content, lets just skip it by using portals”
No one is forced to do it, but it is still wrong and should be looked at by ArenaNet. Jumping Puzzles are supposed to be enjoyed without teleporting.

Why would ANet put a reward in a Jumping Puzzle if everyone was just going to portal up anyway? Maybe they should stop awarding you for jumping puzzles, and just giving you an Achievement instead.

Also theres nothing wrong with my ego as said in a different post. When doing something that probably isn’t intended and jumping past everyone doing it the legit, its not weird that some feel like its wrong.

Would be interesting to get a devs/forum moderators thoughts on this.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

I think I raised a few interesting points here, but nobody’s replied to them.

Here you go

I perceive this as disrespectful towards the arts.

I can agree with where you are coming from, but so is skipping a Vista cinematic.

There is no such shortcut for dungeon achievements, crafting achievements, personal story achievements, slayer achievements or anything else – in order to get the badge, you have to succeed in completing the task.

There are plenty of shortcuts. For a dungeon, you can skip all the trash mobs, portal past certain parts, stand in certain areas which negate damage etc etc. For crafting, you can follow a guide online and max out your crafting for a few gold and a short amount of time with no effort or discovery. For personal story, you can skip all of the ‘story’ by skipping cinematics. For many aspects of the game, you can group up with players and let them do everything for you while you auto-attack.

but I don’t feel entitled to get a free achievement from someone else who slays 1000 giants and then using a skill that tricks the game into thinking I did.

For me this is not about players being entitled to take a portal, it is about how I like to play a game. Personally, I like to help people. In previous games, I would be a healer, and I would go around and randomly heal people. In this game, I can’t really do that. I also like to explore, so doing a jumping puzzle on my mesmer and portaling friends, guildmates and randoms fulfils both my game-style preferences. I do not feel entitled to be portaled, but I feel that I should be allowed to portal others.

Additionally, you can get achievement points for visiting a laurel vendor, why not get an achievement point for visiting a jumping puzzle?

Giseth.9708:

Dan.2940:

Giseth.9708:

The Portal is a destroyer of Jumping Puzzles, why do you get a reward when you haven’t done any of it?
Why should you get Exotic Shoulders when you just stood by the entrance, waiting for a portal?
Theres a reason its an award there, to make people excited and actually jump it! Not portal around it!

Just make the Portal skill not usable in all Jumping Puzzles, either that or with a extreme cooldown. So if you want to “Cheat” you have to wait ages. (Also only in JP’s)

“Its optional! Its optional!” you cry more than anything else in the world. Of courses its optional, if it wasnt they would put it at the first area you go through when making a new character, forcing you through it!
But the thing here isn’t about the option to use it or not, to gain an advantage by “Cheating” and still get something at the end is wrong when the players who worked hours or days on a Jumping Puzzles get the same reward?

If you can’t jump the puzzle, don’t do it! Simple as that. If you are not able to finish a Jumping Puzzle the normal way you don’t deserve a reward! Don’t use Portals!

Without portals people would actually work for their stuff, and perhaps better rewards can be given if its incredible hard. Again, this jumping puzzle is permanent. Why stress with a portal is beyond me…

ill agree with you that it does ruin jump puzzles, however, this form of “cheating” does not affect anyone else. Also, it does not ruin the puzzle for you so why should you care? Some people don’t want to spend the time doing the puzzle and just want the reward, others want to enjoy it and want the reward. Either way, explain to me how removing the portals from JP’s would make you happier. Seeing more irritated, annoyed players cluttered in a jump puzzle for hours? I agree that is does seem like a form of cheating, but 90% of the population is fine with it, the cons from removing the portals outweigh the pros.

Why should it affect everyone to matter?
As long as its a cheap and wrong way to complete a JP. Of course people are fine with it, they get free loot and they don’t have to do a kitten thing to get it! By removing it, forcing people to actually do what you’re supposed to. What if there was an NPC that would auto-lvl you to 80?
No one would complain, and you don’t have to do it. Does that mean that it isn’t a cheap way to get through the game, and the months/years ANet have been developing the game is just a waste and don’t need to be fixed? They probably used months making all the different jumping puzzles, and using Portals is just like saying “We hate your new content, lets just skip it by using portals”
No one is forced to do it, but it is still wrong and should be looked at by ArenaNet. Jumping Puzzles are supposed to be enjoyed without teleporting.

Why would ANet put a reward in a Jumping Puzzle if everyone was just going to portal up anyway? Maybe they should stop awarding you for jumping puzzles, and just giving you an Achievement instead.

I’m certain they know that people skip their content, which is why the loot is soulbound and not something you could sell to make profit. Obviously people would complain about an auto leveling NPC, but what sane company would put that in their game?

You’re only thinking about yourself when you say that portals should be removed, people who want to do the jump puzzle normally, will do so, and ENJOY IT, people who don’t will take a portal. This makes everyone happy, except for the 10% of you who continue to whine about it not being fair. Guess what, LIFE is not fair. I don’t like cancer, or poverty, or war, but do i whine about it? I still have not received an answer from any of the people complaining as to what you would gain from them being removed from JP’s. Please, enlighten me.

May i remind you that i hardly ever take portals and i still couldn’t care less? I enjoy the content, with my friends, and to me, thats all that matters. These people skipping the full JP are only hurting themselves.

As far as portals creating a rift (lol) in trivializing game content, it’s really a double edged sword. In one case it trivializes content by allowing the player to skip the content, but on the other end, it could perhaps draw more, less confident players to the content if they know they are able to get help from other players, particularly the Mesmer.

I can see both points of view. And I will say that it is nice to help people who may be less capable, whether it be because of skill or technical problems.

But the thing about this situation is that you aren’t just “helping” them, you’re just giving them the reward for nothing. Helping them would be giving them tips on certain jumps, or showing them an easier path, something like that. Portalling is just doing it for them. All they need to do is stand in place and press F when you fall in front of them and activate your portal, and poof, they get the reward intended for doing actual puzzle for doing essentially nothing. And yes, the reward is pretty minor anyway, and yes, its not “hurting anyone” for them to get it that way, but its still a matter of rewarding something that’s supposed to be given for skill and persistence for nothing.

The fact that the reward is small and the task is optional is all the more reason that it shouldn’t be happening. If someone can’t do it, then that should be the end of it. Can’t do it, then don’t do it and don’t get the reward. Its not that important anyway.

If this were required for the Meta Achievement or somehow being forced upon people, then sure. I’d be all for bypassing it with portals. You’re gating other content behind this puzzle that some people can’t do, and that’s not cool. But its not. You can happily ignore the jumping puzzle and you don’t lose access to anything else other than the reward specific for the puzzle itself.

People say “its not hurting you and there’s no reason to remove it” which is true to an extent. The economy is unaffected, and I choose to do the puzzle legit so my own experience is unhurt. However, the reward itself is slightly tarnished due to the fact thakittens not really a reward at all once portals enter the picture. It may as well just be given out to everyone by default, because anyone can get it by doing nothing.

And its also true that there’s no reason for it to be there in the first place. There’s no reason a method should exist to bypass something meant to be an optional challenge and just give out the reward. You can say the reason is to “be nice” but why should being nice bypass a challenge? And if you are going to argue that being nice is a legit excuse for giving out the rewards for a challenge for nothing, then why are jumping puzzles the only thing that has it? When do I start getting PvP / WvW awards for not doing those because I suck at them and therefore don’t want to do them? Can I get some dungeon tokens if I just stand around the doorway for a while? If I want the rewards from different aspects of the game, I have to learn to do them and earn the rewards, so why are jumping puzzles the exception that’s ok to just bypass?

My opinion would be to just disable portals inside jumping puzzles. Should be easy to do, the devs already have the entrance of each jumping puzzle mapped and detectable by the game (the game knows when you’re entering a jumping puzzle so it can give you the “Jumping Puzzles Found” daily). So beyond that point, shut the skill off. No need to mess with its functionality anywhere else.

Dan.2940:

Giseth.9708:

Dan.2940:

Giseth.9708:

The Portal is a destroyer of Jumping Puzzles, why do you get a reward when you haven’t done any of it?

Without portals people would actually work for their stuff, and perhaps better rewards can be given if its incredible hard. Again, this jumping puzzle is permanent. Why stress with a portal is beyond me…

ill agree with you that it does ruin jump puzzles, however, this form of “cheating” does not affect anyone else…

Why should it affect everyone to matter?
As long as its a cheap and wrong way to complete a JP. Of course people are fine with it, they get free loot and they don’t have to do a kitten thing to get it! By removing it, forcing people to actually do what you’re supposed to. What if there was an NPC that would auto-lvl you to 80?
No one would complain, and you don’t have to do it. Does that mean that it isn’t a cheap way to get through the game, and the months/years ANet have been developing the game is just a waste and don’t need to be fixed? They probably used months making all the different jumping puzzles, and using Portals is just like saying “We hate your new content, lets just skip it by using portals”
No one is forced to do it, but it is still wrong and should be looked at by ArenaNet. Jumping Puzzles are supposed to be enjoyed without teleporting.

Why would ANet put a reward in a Jumping Puzzle if everyone was just going to portal up anyway? Maybe they should stop awarding you for jumping puzzles, and just giving you an Achievement instead.

I’m certain they know that people skip their content, which is why the loot is soulbound and not something you could sell to make profit. Obviously people would complain about an auto leveling NPC, but what sane company would put that in their game?

You’re only thinking about yourself when you say that portals should be removed, people who want to do the jump puzzle normally, will do so, and ENJOY IT, people who don’t will take a portal. This makes everyone happy, except for the 10% of you who continue to whine about it not being fair. Guess what, LIFE is not fair. I don’t like cancer, or poverty, or war, but do i whine about it? I still have not received an answer from any of the people complaining as to what you would gain from them being removed from JP’s. Please, enlighten me.

May i remind you that i hardly ever take portals and i still couldn’t care less? I enjoy the content, with my friends, and to me, thats all that matters. These people skipping the full JP are only hurting themselves.

Why would i be thinking of my self when im saying this? What makes me a ultra jumper? It destroys a part of the game that should be enjoyed in a different way.

Its not about who likes it or not, its wrong that just because you have a mesmer in the Jumping Puzzle you should be able to skip it. And if it was intended, why didn’t they just put a button with big letters saying “SKIP” ?

What would we gain on removing them you ask? Well, if you remove them you can have better loot in the end. You could have stuff you can sell on the TP for money, you could have people actually doing it.
People stuck in the puzzle for days doesn’t bring anything bad, other than crowding. But at least then you can actually get help from players with routes, tips etc. and not a website.
Hard effort should be rewarded respectfully. The harder the puzzle the better loot. Removing portals -> Better rewards at the end.

What would we lose?
People who get stuff just because they were there when a mesmer is there. If ArenaNet keeps making new Jumping Puzzles with more weapons and armor, everyone will have a full set of Exotic just because they can press “F”.
Don’t you see thakittens wrong to exploit game mechanics to skip ahead, and get rewards for it?

At this point ANet may fear that jumping puzzles would lose their population if the portal wasn’t a factor. Some people only go to puzzles because they know a Mesmer will be there to port. Of course there are players that will still visit them but this could be incentive.

Maybe they should make JP instanced

Giseth.9708:

People stuck in the puzzle for days doesn’t bring anything bad, other than crowding. But at least then you can actually get help from players, and not a website.

Other than putting a portal down or saying “Lets go! You can do it!” How exactly do other players help?

It’s not like they can push you back up a hill you fell down because you missed a jump.

If you remove portals from the puzzles, less people will do them.

Giseth.9708:

Dan.2940:

Giseth.9708:

Dan.2940:

Giseth.9708:

The Portal is a destroyer of Jumping Puzzles, why do you get a reward when you haven’t done any of it?

Without portals people would actually work for their stuff, and perhaps better rewards can be given if its incredible hard. Again, this jumping puzzle is permanent. Why stress with a portal is beyond me…

ill agree with you that it does ruin jump puzzles, however, this form of “cheating” does not affect anyone else…

Why should it affect everyone to matter?
As long as its a cheap and wrong way to complete a JP. Of course people are fine with it, they get free loot and they don’t have to do a kitten thing to get it! By removing it, forcing people to actually do what you’re supposed to. What if there was an NPC that would auto-lvl you to 80?
No one would complain, and you don’t have to do it. Does that mean that it isn’t a cheap way to get through the game, and the months/years ANet have been developing the game is just a waste and don’t need to be fixed? They probably used months making all the different jumping puzzles, and using Portals is just like saying “We hate your new content, lets just skip it by using portals”
No one is forced to do it, but it is still wrong and should be looked at by ArenaNet. Jumping Puzzles are supposed to be enjoyed without teleporting.

Why would ANet put a reward in a Jumping Puzzle if everyone was just going to portal up anyway? Maybe they should stop awarding you for jumping puzzles, and just giving you an Achievement instead.

I’m certain they know that people skip their content, which is why the loot is soulbound and not something you could sell to make profit. Obviously people would complain about an auto leveling NPC, but what sane company would put that in their game?

You’re only thinking about yourself when you say that portals should be removed, people who want to do the jump puzzle normally, will do so, and ENJOY IT, people who don’t will take a portal. This makes everyone happy, except for the 10% of you who continue to whine about it not being fair. Guess what, LIFE is not fair. I don’t like cancer, or poverty, or war, but do i whine about it? I still have not received an answer from any of the people complaining as to what you would gain from them being removed from JP’s. Please, enlighten me.

May i remind you that i hardly ever take portals and i still couldn’t care less? I enjoy the content, with my friends, and to me, thats all that matters. These people skipping the full JP are only hurting themselves.

Why would i be thinking of my self when im saying this? What makes me a ultra jumper? It destroys a part of the game that should be enjoyed in a different way.

Its not about who likes it or not, its wrong that just because you have a mesmer in the Jumping Puzzle you should be able to skip it. And if it was intended, why didn’t they just put a button with big letters saying “SKIP” ?

What would we gain on removing them you ask? Well, if you remove them you can have better loot in the end. You could have stuff you can sell on the TP for money, you could have people actually doing it.
People stuck in the puzzle for days doesn’t bring anything bad, other than crowding. But at least then you can actually get help from players with routes, tips etc. and not a website.
Hard effort should be rewarded respectfully. The harder the puzzle the better loot. Removing portals -> Better rewards at the end.

What would we lose?
People who get stuff just because they were there when a mesmer is there. If ArenaNet keeps making new Jumping Puzzles with more weapons and armor, everyone will have a full set of Exotic just because they can press “F”.
Don’t you see thakittens wrong to exploit game mechanics to skip ahead, and get rewards for it?

That is actually really true, no portals means better rewards, which means more incentive to do the JP… Didn’t think about that, however i don’t think they should completely remove the portal, just make the range really small when you’re in the JP. That way if you screw up on a small jump, you can port, but you can’t port from the start of the JP to the end.

Electro.4173:

The fact that the reward is small and the task is optional is all the more reason that it shouldn’t be happening. If someone can’t do it, then that should be the end of it. Can’t do it, then don’t do it and don’t get the reward. Its not that important anyway.

If this were required for the Meta Achievement or somehow being forced upon people, then sure. I’d be all for bypassing it with portals. You’re gating other content behind this puzzle that some people can’t do, and that’s not cool. But its not. You can happily ignore the jumping puzzle and you don’t lose access to anything else other than the reward specific for the puzzle itself.

People say “its not hurting you and there’s no reason to remove it” which is true to an extent. The economy is unaffected, and I choose to do the puzzle legit so my own experience is unhurt. However, the reward itself is slightly tarnished due to the fact thakittens not really a reward at all once portals enter the picture. It may as well just be given out to everyone by default, because anyone can get it by doing nothing.

And its also true that there’s no reason for it to be there in the first place. There’s no reason a method should exist to bypass something meant to be an optional challenge and just give out the reward. You can say the reason is to “be nice” but why should being nice bypass a challenge? And if you are going to argue that being nice is a legit excuse for giving out the rewards for a challenge for nothing, then why are jumping puzzles the only thing that has it? When do I start getting PvP / WvW awards for not doing those because I suck at them and therefore don’t want to do them? Can I get some dungeon tokens if I just stand around the doorway for a while? If I want the rewards from different aspects of the game, I have to learn to do them and earn the rewards, so why are jumping puzzles the exception that’s ok to just bypass?

My opinion would be to just disable portals inside jumping puzzles. Should be easy to do, the devs already have the entrance of each jumping puzzle mapped and detectable by the game (the game knows when you’re entering a jumping puzzle so it can give you the “Jumping Puzzles Found” daily). So beyond that point, shut the skill off. No need to mess with its functionality anywhere else.

So let me get this straight if it were a required thing you’d be OK with using portals to bypass the JP, but since it’s optional you’re not OK with it? Great logic there….

It actually makes sense. There are some people that literally cannot complete a jumping puzzle, due to technical issues or otherwise. If JP was required to progress it would not be fair to people with low end systems that cannot operate under that much population stress. Since the JP is not a progression-inhibiting obstacle it gives more freedom for people to decide how they want to complete it. The portal presents another option.

I have no problem with using the portals in JPs if people want to, I don’t see any issues with it personally. I just found it odd that someone argue that it was OK to use to bypass something required, but no OK to use to bypass something optional. Seems somewhat hypocritical. Either you find it OK or you don’t.

I still wouldn’t be strictly OK with it, but there’d at least be a somewhat justifiable excuse for it, IMO anyway. If the game tries to literally force people into doing something they don’t want to (or can’t, due to technical limitations) do, something that’s not a part of the basic gameplay and uses quite a different skillset, then that’s a bad thing. In such an instance, doing something like portalling to let people bypass that aspect I would still not personally approve of, but I could see the validity of it. The game is forcing you to either do something you can’t (which means never getting to the other content gated behind it), or find a way around it. Those are the only 2 reasonable options.

If its a completely optional task that the game is in no way forcing you into, then there’s a 3rd option which is to just ignore it completely. No reward for doing it, but you shouldn’t get it if you don’t do it anyway, and more importantly you don’t lose anything else beyond the reward itself.

All arguments against portals seem to be along the lines of “if they didn’t put in effort, they shouldn’t get anything.”

What those people are missing out on is the real reward: the jumping puzzle itself. Jumping puzzles weren’t meant to be focused on the end prize; it is only used as incentive to get you going. Players are treated with wonderful content created by the devs and if you decide to skip it for the end reward, fine! I repeat, the end reward is negligible for a reason.

You could easily take the portal, secure your prize, and redo the puzzle normally if you so choose to reward yourself with the content. People who use portals know they are skipping content. And guess what? They’re missing out on the real reward.

Point is, I really wanted to end the “don’t deserve it” because the reward in question are actually two completely different rewards: end reward vs content.

this is a bad idea -1

This is a great idea +1

Bubi.7942:

I am working in an office. I have a colleague, that works in the same office.
He is always one hour late and leaves one hour early, and does nothing in his worktime, just posts stuff on Facenote.com from 8joke.com.

We recieve the same payment.

But that doesn’t effect me or my work in any way. So it’s perfectly fine, right?

If you have to do their work to take up the slak, no it isn’t fine.

Portals, however, don’t function that way since it doesn’t require you to do anything if there is a portal or not.

Fail.

Fact is anyone who wants to do it will do it, and may even come back later to do it again.
Those who don’t take their rewards and disappear. (As opposed to just not bothering)

In JQ the puzzle was still packed with people trying to jump along the pipes next to the console rooms even with mesmers announcing warps and others asking for them.

(ALSO ONCE AGAIN the mesmer had to be able to get there themselves to begin with.)

And fact remains that it’s a puzzle design issue if they don’t want it to be portal accessible they’d design it like other puzzles where you can’t, which I’m sure will happen if we get a legit reward instead of soul bound Armor without a unique skin xD.

Personally I found the new puzzle really really fun =D

I am one of thoese who dont have the money to buy a computer to play Gw2 on the higest settings or anything above 2-18 fps on the lowest settings. I somehow do get why people would be upset that people like me, can get a mesmer to help out.

But I cant see how this would affect you, I do get the perpuse that we get something faster than you without tryieng, thoug it is better than just surrender JP as soon as you hear the word? i get everything from 5-15 fps throug this JP, even thoug it might be possible, it would still be double as hard/near impossible, and no fun at all since we basecly can give up any JP contest from now on.

Beside that Gw2 still have Guilds which does thiese JP´s it wouldnt be any fun for us low fpsers that we just need to back off each time we see the word Jumping Puzzle?

Analogies do not have to be 100% exact to prove a point. So many people seem to be missing that and attack minor detail which have nothing to do with the argument that is being made. I seriously doubt there can ever be an analogy made that 100% fits what it is being use towards.

I personally have hung out at the puzzle and gave advice on how to pass certain parts as well as personally show them how. I even rez those that fall. You’re doing someone a disservice by encouraging people to take the easy way out to completing something. This can be an achievement, a goal, or whatever.